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UNCUT - The Adversary (DS9 S3E26) | Star Trek Journey 369 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-04-15 23:03:37
Edited:
2026-11-01 04:51:58
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Next week is season recap week. Star Trek Journey reactions will resume for Audience Members on Monday April 27th

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Loot Narsbaar

Without seeing the reaction, I know we have 1) No Jem Hadar, 2) No cliffhanger ending. 3) A Sseason finale. If Learning Curve was an “S” this should be a “SSSS”

Ryan K

This is (don't say it) where Deep Space Nine (please it has to stop) starts to get good! (post deleted, IP banned)

Loot Narsbaar

DS9 got good at Blood Oath. Get outta here!

Ryan Roach

Oh Captain, my Captain. Finally. A G-rated version of The Thing isn't exactly setting the world on fire, but that's okay. S4 will do that.

Trekkie74205

1. I often don't think you guys pay close attention. Then Josh pulls out Sisko wearing his dress uniform in MOVE ALONG HOME. 2. Three for three seasons. No "To Be Continued" or "Part 1" DS9 Season Finales. The Producers have said they generally liked to leave themselves room to change course between seasons. 3. Dear Alex, Sal-O-May Jens. 4. Give people a pass on when DS9 gets good. It is hard to pinpoint because it keeps getting better. 5. THE THING was a remake of THE THING FROM ANOTHER WORLD (1951). The writers listed the 1951 film as an inspiration. 6. It has been a pleasure watching Season 3 with you gentlemen.

startrekiborg

Receiving rake in the military is simply orders coming through. The ceremony is simply that, ceremony. The pip was probably picked up in the station's commissary (aka store).

Matchstick Jose

Wow! What a shocking opening statement from Josh and Alex: “It is with mixed emotions that we record this, our final Commander Sisko reaction. The last year has been the most demanding and rewarding of our career. We can only hope that the future will hold even greater challenges.”

startrekiborg

Considering how much you go on, and on, and on, and on about "The Bonding" (sentimental clap-trap), I would say you're right about it being in the eye of the person watching.

Bert

I assume he was promoted both because the station is obviously of extreme strategic importance and because he commands both the station and the Defiant.

Ryan

I always thought this was a weirdly slow episode for a season finale, but I also liked that. It's nice to have time with our characters and not have to RUN! BECAUSE THE UNIVERSE IS ON FIRE!! TO BE CONTINUED!!! And the back half was way more tense than I remembered — great pacing, direction, musical score, plot twists, everything. Nice to end the season on some paranoia and existential dread. And with that, congrats on officially finishing the prologue! Nice of them to lump it together in one box.

StonyD

Mid-week finale! Next week will be lonely.

Sykonee

Dunno' why, but thing I like the most about this one is how they gave this two-time, walk-on, by-the-book needler Eddington character some actual, y'know, character! Given how antagonistic Odo was towards his very presence at the start of the season, now them being almost chummy in the Jeffries tubes, quite the turnaround for him. Meanwhile, on Monday Night Raw this same airdate, the main event saw Shawn Michaels defeat... Gus Kantarrakis? Dear God, Nitro can't get here soon enough.

tyranusfan

Hold on, in "Where Silence Has Lease," Pulaski specifically said she wasn't a bridge officer. SHE LIED TO US!

reactive1

Becoming a Captain and even an Admiral in the other divisions besides Command is certainly possible, we just don’t see it on a starship (or a space station) except very rarely.

Laura Thornley

Reaction #369? Triple nice. Also, I like this episode. Not much else to say on the matter. Its good.

TalynOne

Josh: I don't care what the actors think of the show. Also Josh: Armin says it gets good in season 4!

Laura Thornley

Regarding the whole Command leads to higher ranks situation - from what I can tell, if you want to progress beyond Commander you need to transfer to Command Division to gain experience and training in that field. You can then transfer back to your previous Division once you have that experience. Sisko started in Engineering, for example. When he became First Officer on the Saratoga he transferred to Command where he remained when given Deep Space Nine. Janeway started in Science, with a similar role to becoming Captain.

Matthew McKinnon-Gray

Just FYI, there’s a really good animated TV show called “Gargoyles” that features both Keith David & Jonathan Frakes as main characters (with Marina Sirtis, Kate Mulgrew, Michael Dorn, Nichelle Nichols & Brent Spiner as recurring characters and Colm Meany, Levar Burton & Avery Brooks popping up for 1 shots)

Scott B.

Yeah I agree, with the rising importance of the station by this point I feel like the two options for Starfleet brass were to either finally station a captain out there or to promote from within. A lot of stations are "captained" by commanders in Star Trek... but typically not the important ones lol

Regan

The colour of blood comes from the metal that the blood's haemoglobin is based on and the collour it turns when it bonds with oxygen,. For example, human haemoglobin is iron based and iron oxide ir red. Vulcan/Romulan blood is copper based and copper oxide is green. I don't think that it has ever been stated what metal the haemoglobin in blue blood is based on, but cobalt would be my guess.

Philbot

First thing, I’m wondering if everybody’s on the defiant who’s in charge of the station? They got like one Bajoran major who’s like under Kira?

Philbot

I forgot last week to say that Leeta was almost cast as Jake’s Gf Marta. But she was like 30? Marta was 18 she just looked 30. But they remembered Leeta and brought her back..

Philbot

Have you guys noticed Worf in Invincible? Or do you guys just know the think Mark meme.

Philbot

Edingtons performance always felt like low rent Garak to me yet also Tom Paris? Like if him and Garak had a baby..

Philbot

Yea the parts you like are good! But overall it’s kinda a shit story. There are fans acting like Jeremy Astor will like cone a running to go to war with Worf! Leave the Cushy federation? I don’t care about that character.. especially coming back to be a Mogh?

Philbot

WTF is an op? From FB op is original poster.

Loot Narsbaar

The rare exception is Captain Scotty in the movies. He never was captain of a ship.

Loot Narsbaar

From what I've seen Admirals command starbases and Sisko is an outlier. I can't think of a pre-DS9 example where the commanding officer of a base is a commander

Loot Narsbaar

I like Eddington a lot more than Paris so far

Loot Narsbaar

Also the real world reason is Ira wanted him promoted at least since s3 started (Remember it being mentioned in Search II). Also I can't help but think there was potential for bad optics about not letting the show's black lead be a captain once his character got his own starship and truly became a hero.

Loot Narsbaar

This was a fun watch. I refuse to believe no Changeling has ever harmed another. They've done nothing but harm Odo every time we've seen them.

Summer

We finally have a Captain. I am so glad Trek doesn’t have a laugh track

Darren

Welcome Captain Sisko I’ve always felt I’ve been an outlier for this episode. I love this one. It’s a small scale story with big implications for the future. “We’re everywhere” it’s not a cliffhanger but confirmation of what we expect putting the characters on the same knowledge we have.

Darren

They’re the ultimate gaslighters

Darren

Starship mine there is a commander Hutchinson (call me hutch) who is in command

Adam Figi

We saw a gold admiral just a few episodes ago.

Cory Paton

Sisko definitely changes for the better when he grows the beard, Avery Brooks was basically forced to grow hair and shave his beard because the studio didn't want him to look like his previous big role as Hawk in Spenser: For Hire and its spin-off. They also thought it made him look too "Street" for a Starfleet officer and Ira basically came along and just said fuck that, you can look how you want to. Avery is very obviously much more comfortable with this look as it is the way he prefers to look in his personal life and it definitely makes his performance more confident.

Jonathon Tsagris

I think a 6 year old could come up with a better episode of Star Trek than Aquiel.

Deliximus

Last Jedi was a farce. S03e26 was great

Loot Narsbaar

That’s the only uniformed non-red Admiral I’ve seen in Trek

Loot Narsbaar

When the Defiant went to Earth for three weeks do you think Eddington or Quark was in command?

Loot Narsbaar

…and look at what happened to him

Joe Pail

@Alex & Josh I know, I know: You told us again and again that you're gonna experience the Star Trek franchise the way everyone else did in the past, but after watching the DS9 Youtube reaction of Jen Murray, I'd like to make a suggestion regarding the first episode of season 4: One of you should close his eyes (but listen) while the other one watches and listens during the intro/credits. This could be funny and satisfying for all of your followers.

Joe Pail

I agree that it was a horrible episode ...but I like (and still do) the Aquiel Uhnari character.

lukin1941

The Adversary is one of my personal favorite episodes in DS9 (my most beloved ST show). Combination of The Thing and The Alien of sort really suits here with darker music and tone that what is to come would not be all sunny all good like Star Trek usually do. Really glad that you did not hate the episode :-)

Elizabeth N

Wait, someone's coming you say? Wonder who that is 🤔 Great reaction!

Prof Moff

DS9 sex scoreboard No scores. Here is the final board at the end of S3 The sex score board Quark 5 Jadzia 3 Bashir 3 Sisko 3 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Jake 1

Bert

That's the tension. It's like they seem to love Voyager and looking at it with their criteria, it slaps hard. Traditional Star Trek fans bounced off the series sometimes because it was so loose on the scifi a lot of the time. The technobabble is word vomit and some episodes are built on fundamental misunderstandings of science, putting it closer to standard Hollywood fare where TNG tended to be a little bit harder scifi or at least had a cleaner distinction between their scientifically plausible stuff and their magic "unknown race/species/phenomena we don't understand" Not that they were clean. Genesis gives us an early taste of Braga misunderstanding evolution. But if you apply the Mass Effect 2 standard, Voyager is actually pretty awesome.

Zenlike Creature

It's supposed to be the enlightened 24th Century, yet they still seem to have a ridiculous (presumably) over 21 drinking rule in place. Poor Jake ;) I always forget that this is the episode that Sisko gets promoted, too. I think this is a super episode. The tension is set for next season and the potential for anyone to be a changeling. Yes, I'm sure many of us had already presumed this could be the case earlier in the season but the writers address this here and confirm. Glad you enjoyed the episode. Can't believe I have to wait a whole week before we get back underway... man, the time will drag ;) Look forward to hearing your thoughts in full.

Loot Narsbaar

Spoiler warning is a bigger spoiler than the actual spoiler

lukin1941

Deleted, then. But still I think that watching that intro would be mistake.

Altariel

What a fun way to describe Eddington 😂

Altariel

That was an enjoyable reaction! 🙂 Glad you could end the season on a good note. But now I have to wait for quite a while before I get another DS9 episode reaction... 😭

Paul

Originality is (almost) impossible anyways, I agree Josh. It's about crafting your own original spins to concepts that may have been done before you. Creative works are always to some extent derivative. Also, Alex, I literally said "okay" same as you, when Kira was up next for the test. Lmao. We're terrible aren't we... As for the episode, absolutely awesome. Ice, The Thing, you name it. It's a mystery (with atmospheric horror) and woven within the DS9 Dominion narrative seamlessly. Congrats to Captain Benjamin Sisko!

Paul

If you're worried about what I think you are, they already know.

Paul

Sorry Joe, they know.

Paul

I wouldn't say slow, but compressed in scope, for sure.

Joe Pail

Well ...it was worth a try. 🤷‍♂️

Collin Freeman

Right. You can be promoted in rank to captain, but not all captains are command officers.

Loot Narsbaar

Bashir's face ain't on the box set

Jaymison Boeker

It’s like 6 straight voyager before the first episode of DS9 season 4 :\

Sunny

I wondered if it was the style of filming or his appearance but his look in season 1 vs 3 always made me feel like we jumped forward 5 years in television. Like way more modern/current

Sunny

I work with someone like him so Eddington feels so real to me. It’s hard to make small talk with that guy.

Sykonee

The closest we'll get to having to wait a whole summer again!

Rangsk

I can't believe you've been spoiled about Eric!

River Acheron

Not much to say that hasn't been said already. I adore The Thing references, and it was a very solid episode overall. As I said in the past, I don't judge episodes based on their placement (finales, etc). If I like something, I like it, if I don't I don't. And I loved this episode! I am going to give this an S. Grudgingly. I was thinking A+ but I think this earns an S Catagory.

Drake

The Tzenkethi are one of the 9 big races in the Typhon pact. A book series of 8 books playing after ds9/Voyager. I recommend every fan who finished both show to 100% read them. Tzenkethi are cool

Loot Narsbaar

Yes but imagine how refreshed and eager they will be for ds9 when the time comes

Utterlee

Screaming at the telly that you didn't notice Bashir switching the vials.

River Acheron

Technically, the 80's Thing is not a remake. It's another adaptation of a book that came before both movies. In a strict sense, when that happens, we don't call it a remake. In fact, the 80's version is a lot more faithful to the book. The 50's version is just....terrible. But yeah, that would be like saying the The Shiningn 90's miniseries is a remake of the Kubrick movie. Or the recent 'IT' movies are remakes of the 90's movie. It's just different adaptations.

Forbidden Donut

I tend to agree with Josh about the originality thing; I value how good it is on its own much more than whether or not someone else 'did it first'. Some people, when they bring up Hunger Games, immediately go "Battle Royale! Battle Royale!" and, sure, there's similarities, but I don't care. Also, I don't understand why that one bothers some people so much, yet they're probably fine with the entire genre that is 'the Western'. It's okay to be a genre film, but it's not okay (for some reason) for the Hunger Games to exist in a world where Battle Royale already existed. That never made much sense to me and felt very arbitrary. Not to mention many other genre films that exist and are obviously similar to one another as well.

Forbidden Donut

Also, it's funny how you both were like "Oh, it's so obvious Odo doesn't sweat" but to me it would have been plausible if he did react to heat like that, just with his looking more amber colored to match his liquid state look. Plus, we've seen him kind of 'melt' once or twice in the past when he's stressed out.

Jason Aud

One thing about that box set as I understand it is that it's more compressed/a bit lower quality than the original standalone season releases. There is a video about this DS9 set specifically on youtube. How much of a real effect....no idea, don't have this one to compare myself only the original season releases so maybe not a real issue to you.

Forbidden Donut

In retrospect, there probably should have been a Starfleet Admiral there to promote Sisko.

jon bolton

I hoped you'd enjoy the DS9 take on The Thing. S from me. In the past few years i've fallen in love with most Rob Zombie films, especially The Devil's Rejects. Even though no horror can top the original Halloween, the remake is also in my top 100 movies.

Naglfarius

DS9: "Suffer from success" ^^

Lovok

Good, solid, enjoyable episode. But now I can't wait to get started with S4, when Peak DS9 begins. Oh, there will still be a few duds among the 26 ep seasons, but outside of those the overall excellence and consistency just goes through the roof. So excited!

MJBull

Eddington's good name gets dragged through the mud. Justice for Eddington!

Naglfarius

Dad Sikso: S. civil Sisko: A. Commander Sisko: B. Captain Sisko: ?

River Acheron

I like him! We need someone like him tbh. And I still maintain he didn't do anything wrong. He was only following Starfleet orders. Yes he pissed off the Chief but he wasn't wrong.

MJBull

Josh, to be fair to you, the Bajoran homeworld was referred to as "Bajora" in at least one episode of TNG or S1 DS9. As far as Odo's abilities as a shapeshifter, by Changeling standards he is, at most, the equivalent of a teenager who has been figuring things out for himself.

MJBull

Hermit crab blood is blue when oxygenated and it ihas a copper-based oxygen-carrying protein called hemocyanin

Numinous2019

Since this was an 11th hour change of story from a cliffhanger bridging seasons, Odo having to kill another changeling wouldn't have been included in the original story. (I know this because that original story is still ahead.) Money was not an issue in terms of changing the story. Also, Ken Marshall as Eddington is a real bonus here. Love his body language throughout.

Numinous2019

Season 3 of DS9 is assembling the full skeleton of the show. Then Season 4 adds the internal organs. Re-watching Seasons 1 and 2 it is clear that DS9 was intended to be closer to TNG, just with altered dynamics. By this point the show has become its own distinct show.

MJBull

Just this season we had a goldshirt Admiral. However, it probably is true that most people who get to captain and flag ranks are in the command division or transfer to it. "Command" is the division's name, after all.

Todd

Regarding captains in other divisions, I think it is implied that anyone who is a captain of a starship, will be in Command red. Recall Beverly in All Good Things was in Command red even though it was a medical ship. Sulu and Spock as captains of ships both had the white collar of Command Montgomery Scott was a Captain in rank but he was also in charge of building the Excelsior, so it stands to reason that those who proceed into higher ranks in Ops/Engineering or Sci/Med do so in leadership/oversight roles. Bones is another example since he was rank Admiral but also referred to as Surgeon General Emeritus, suggesting a similar rise in administrative function accompanied rises in rank. Regarding this episode, the final words of the changeling was just confirming what was already shown. Recall the Romulan who was a Changeling in the Garak two-parter. And it's going to be a running theme going forward. There was a lot of telegraphing in this episode, notably Bashir's stilted dialog in the Jeffries tube. I think we have Quark has had essentially 3 spotlight episodes this season but been important to other episodes, like when he had to help negotiate with the Karemma. And then he still had parts in other episodes, like Facets. I think he is used as much as possible for his role in the cast/show. Jadzia was really great in the beginning. I feel like Sisko was given the promotion because he has both a starbase and a ship as part of his purview. He's proven himself. A promotion is deserved. I don't think season 4 hits its stride without season 3 helping to get it there. Sounds like Josh wanted another appearance of Admiral Nechayev to give Ben his promotion.

Numinous2019

That's a great suggestion. I'd imagine though that the additional cost and time to make alterations to the Odo make-up, or CGI touch-ups would have been prohibitive.

Erik L Jerks

I'm not convinced that was Jake's first sip of alcohol. He's a dabo girl dating, Dom Jat hustling author. Basically a thinner version of Hemingway.

Trekkie74205

Ok, noted. Regardless, the writers specifically cited the 1951 film as inspiration for this episode. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion, p. 250)

Lorne Pribbeno

Yeah, brand new set for the Defiant, Engineering, and hey lets take is out for a big character defining moment.

Who North America

I remember getting to this finale and I thought, "Wouldn't it be cool if the entire Federation was infiltrated and the ONLY non-infiltrated starship was Voyager because it was in the Delta quadrant?"

Aaron Wells

I think the Bajoran diaspora was called the Bajora in TNG a couple of times. I don't think the planet was introduced until DS9. Irritating thing was Picard calling it buh-JOR instead of BAY-jor. Like it took them an episode or two to settle on the proper pronunciation.

Aaron Wells

Thanks for that, will look into it.

Aaron Wells

Concerning genres and tropes... There's nothing left that's truly original. The only thing I can think of that I haven't seen anywhere else is something like Inception. I mean, it's basically a heist movie... But all that dream within dream time dilation stuff... Haven't seen that anywhere else.

Aaron Wells

I think alcohol consumption in general is rather frowned on... Thus the synth ale...

Aaron Wells

Which is kind of annoying. There should be admirals at the top of the engineering and medical and science divisions for example...

Aaron Wells

I think they actually specify Scotty as Capt. of Engineering.

Aaron Wells

The distinction between the much higher quality technobabble on TNG versus the zero effort nonsense on Voyager is extremely important.

Adam Figi

There probably is. We just haven’t seen them

Ca$hWednesday

Regarding the comment about whether S3 of TNG or DS9 was better: As someone who has been doing their own tier-list as we go; for myself, DS9 S3 episodes all fell into A-C tier for me. Nothing made S or D tier. As for TNG, there were a couple S-tiers, and a few in D. TNG had the higher highs and the lower lows, but DS9 was MUCH more consistent of a season.

Nolan

Funny. The first time I watched Inception after hearing how original and mind bending it was, I thought it was just 3 or 4 Star Trek episodes I'd already seen rolled into one with a dash of the Matrix thrown in. 😅

International Man of Leisure

That's the thing about DS9, it's not a static show. People change, get promoted, make both good & bad decisions AND have to live with the consequences, and defy expectations.

International Man of Leisure

On addressing a Lt. Commander (LCDR) as "commander", it is standard protocol in the military. Same as addressing a Lt, Junior Grade (LTJG) as ("lieutenant"). Or a chief petty officer as "chief".

International Man of Leisure

Attention to detail: When Changeling Julian draws Eddington's blood, you can see that he has 2 test tunes in his hand. When he holds up the test tube with the channeling goo in it, you can still see 2 test tubes in his hand. Pretty good sleight of hand.

Steven McDowell

Never followed my father’s footsteps enlisting in the Army, but Star Trek essentially being ‘the U.S. Navy, but in space’ inspired me to research military ranks, rates and occupational specialties when I was younger. At least that led me to understand the chain of command much better, though I understand if others haven’t jumped into the online research rabbit hole on that.

Steven McDowell

Agreed with everything thing you’ve mention on all topics, and yeah, in-universe, Sisko’s purview including both a space station and a starship, in addition to the ambiguous security challenges/concerns from the Founders, require Sisko himself to be promoted or assigning officer at the rank of Captain to the post.

Steven McDowell

All these years, and the way the writers have Picard pronounce it still gets under my skin.

Steven McDowell

I don’t know if I ever really noticed, but wasn’t an issue for me.

Steven McDowell

Yeah, I looked up the chronology myself already. Darn. Hahaha.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

There's no way this was based on the Thing when it is clearly based on Among Us.

shanetown

Indeed, Data was a Lt. Commander, and was addressed as "Commander" consistently.

International Man of Leisure

I was an Army Guard chief warrant officer. Whenever I got promoted, I would just get a copy of my promotion orders and that's it. No fancy ceremony. Which was how I wanted it and I'm pretty sure everyone knew that. I have to say, because Sisko is a commanding officer, it does seem weird some admiral didn't show up. Then again, DS9 *is* at the ass end of known space. Maybe no admiral wanted to do a multi-day travel just for a promotion ceremony.

Richard Finch

Like they’re getting off their asses and traveling from San Francisco to DS9.

Ca$hWednesday

Someone please do laugh track TOS. (Josh, you know you want to).

Mark Chrisco

I'm pretty sure sure no one was killed because the changelings wanted a full crew aboard the Defiant to complete the frame by making it clear the attack was an official Federation mission.

International Man of Leisure

Come to think of it, I don't think Changelings dirty their hands with the actual killing of things. They have people for that....

Loot Narsbaar

I’m pretty sure no was killed because the Changelings would lose Odo if they started offing his friends one by one in front of him

Loot Narsbaar

The ambassador seems like he’s hot shit. Maybe Starfleet thought he was good enough.

Loot Narsbaar

TNG is all the way as s3 is TNG’s best season. Of all the seasons watched here I’d put DS9 s3 as second best

Loot Narsbaar

Oh how cool would it have been if she was replaced since we know her

Loot Narsbaar

It’s the French pronunciation 🤷

Loot Narsbaar

Had to buy an earlier season 5 set and I could not tell the difference. They both looked pretty bad on a ps5 / OLED setup. Also I need to get my glasses adjusted.

Loot Narsbaar

Even if he didn’t switch them he could have formed one with his own hand

Loot Narsbaar

Either all command wears red or they didn’t want to spend extra money to fashion new admiral suits

Ca$hWednesday

Many of my favourite TNG episodes are in S3. My personal fav episode of the entire series, "Yesterday's Enterprise" is also in that season. Still, if I had to pick a full season to watch front to back between both, I'd pick DS9s.

Ca$hWednesday

Be real guys, DS9 got good at Emissary. It only got better from there.

Altariel

I like to think they like to keep people they impersonate around because it's easier to hide if people aren't missing constantly all the time. Think of it: if O'Brian had seen Bashir in the tubes, but then Bashir went missing after that, it would have raised suspicions much earlier. But by changing into someone else and Bashir still being around allowed them to be less suspicious, and the changling had to impersonate Bashir a second time when he was faking the blood test of Eddington. He couldn't have done that if he had gotten rid of Bashir the first time.

KingPin124

Alex knows that, he’s just giving Eddington flak.

KingPin124

It was totally random, but I really liked Josh talking about the changing “floor” for episodes and how that can affect reactions and ratings. Clearly this is something that he’s been thinking about and it’s something I’ve been thinking about for months as well. It’s something I’ve ranted about on here before that I think it’s too easy to become jaded about really strong episodes, just because it may not be the top 2 or 3 in the season that get you really emotional or whatever. The episode floor is going to keep going up and up, so I do think it’s important to take that step back and evaluate from time to time on how far these shows have come. Watch out for the trapping of becoming jaded by so many good episodes and I know you’ll love what’s to come.

Scarpad’s Domain

Any episode of season 3 is better than the bonding there I said it I hate that sour pussed kid. I hated him in robocop 3 and I hate him in the bonding….whew I feel better

Jason Aud

I upgraded my ps5 to a better disc upscaling player also the AI upscales...really still wish we would get a true "remaster" of some sort.

HeatheЯ

Armin was on Buffy and overlapped with DS9 for a bit. :) Armin killed it with his Buffy character.

Tim Nikiforovs

Akoocheemoya, we are far from the finales of our people

Tim Nikiforovs

Obviously Jake is in charge. Nepotism is alive and well in the 24th century

Tim Nikiforovs

Also given we have a lineup of 5 VOY eps before 4x01, it'll be more like 3 weeks till the next season of DS9 starts

Ian Westcott

I spoke with a filmmaker once, and he had a few rules for what he considered a "successful remake." And one of those rules was that it really helped if the original film that you were remaking was an interesting idea, but the film itself was a bit of a missed opportunity. My example with this would be John Carpenter's The Thing. It's really the second big adaptation of "Who Goes There?" but very fewpeople watch 1951's The Thing From another World, and Carpenter's version, and think "Yeah, James Arness's giant vegetable really captured this story."

Ian Westcott

No way, S3 of TNG has SOME good episodes, but overall there is still a lot of drek there. I think season 4 and especially season 6 are the best, even though they don't have my overall favorite episodes.

Ian Westcott

I can't remember if it was Ron Moore or Ira who said this, but once Voyager got going on Season 1, the studio execs kindof gave up trying manage DS9, switched focus to Voyager, and DS9 kindof got to do its own thing with much supervision (besides Berman's)

Ian Westcott

He's just so smarmy. He's not our idealized TNG officer.

Ian Westcott

Every time they introduced a cool new species (Bajorans, Cardassians, Tril) in TNG, the introductory episode had some weird stuff in it that got dropped later on without anyone mentioning it)

Ian Westcott

Usually, if someone disobeyed direct orders because he has PERSONAL loyalty to a commander, we'd consider that creepy, horrible, and that military career would be over. But in TNG and DS9, rank and file are expected to disobey Starfleet because Picard and Sisko are cool? I dunno about that.

Ian Westcott

ALso, the Tzenkethi is Robert Hewitt Wolfe's stealth reference to Larry Niven's Kzinti, the cat species which guest starred in the Star Trek Animated Series episode The Slaver Weapon. However, he said he did NOT imagine them being a cat species as the Kzinti were, which is disappointing.

Aaron Wells

Considering how stealthy warrant officers seemed to be, I'd think low-key promotions would fit right in.

Aaron Wells

I never got a matrix vibe from it. I just thought it was a lot of fun sitting there in the theater building a little multi-level model in my head of what's going on, each level with time passing at a different rate. That sort of thing is super common in Christopher Nolan's work... I feel like Inception is where he got to really go nuts with it.

Aaron Wells

Quick note: A Lt. Cmdr. is properly called Commander for short. Same goes with Lieutenant Colonel. Colonel for short. A junior grade of commander is still a commander. A Lieutenant J.G. is still a Lt. Saying the full rank out loud every time is a bit of a mouthful.

Zerocooleo

This was strike number three for the changelings. The first time Salome Jens’s changeling tried using treachery by replacing Kira, the next time the changeling who replaced the Romulan Lovok asked respectfully for Odo to return to the great link, he said no. So time number three this changeling adversary tried using violence to subdue and abduct Odo and force his to return to the great link. Neither of the other changelings used violence against him, if you ask me self defense was justified, his reaction to being linked to without his consent was within reason, if you pick a fight you need to know it can go very wrong for all parties involved. You would think that an experienced changeling that has maybe many hundreds or even thousands of years on Odo should have been able to win that struggle but you realize that there may be a good reason the changelings send their infants into space. The young seem to be stronger then the adults, add to that the arrogance, hostility and lack of wisdom of the young, they may be too dangerous to keep around until they grow up for a few hundred years. Odo was several hundred years early and had not finished the task given to him as an infant, not so different from the Saiyans who were also warlords. When Odo first arrived on his home world only a small group of changelings bothered to greet him. They seemed less like diplomats and more like local security there to keep the riffraff out. They told him he was not ready to join the great link but now that Odo outright rejects them they go after him. At this point their insistence that no changeling has ever harmed another seems like gas-lighting.

Numinous2019

There is one major input from Paramount remaining in the show. Which explains why season 3 ends this way and season 4 starts the way it does. Paramount thought this change would help with the shows ratings.

Deliximus

**again. Please DO NOT WATCH the beginning music credits of DS9 for season 4 premiere** heavy spoilers.

Deliximus

You forgot Intendant Kira: 4 digits

Numinous2019

The Changelings have a distorted view of everything. They assume absolute superiority to 'Solids'. They regard any actions they take as justified by the cruelty and prejudice towards them in the past. Their ideas of justice will likewise be absolutism.

Tim Nikiforovs

1 - they know 2 - everyone talking about it is a spoiler in and of itself

Sic Coyote

"BEST Captain" aft torpedoes fired

Tim Nikiforovs

First off, everyone talking about Changeling Bashir switching vials, that's not what happened. Look at how he holds it, with his index finger on the rubber membrane the blood was injected through. He was doing that so he could bleed off a little goo and envelop the blood with it to frame Eddington. Also, Siddig has come so far since The Passenger. The subtle way he acts "off" as the changeling is just perfect. Enough that once you know it's not him, you can see it, but not so obvious you suspect anything is off on first watch. Sisko is right that being a captain doesn't really change much. His crew, his assignment, his responsibilities and challenges remain the same. However from the audience perspective, as the character really starts to come into his own, both because Ira let Avery adopt the look he's comfortable with, and also because both he and the writers are finally figuring out the character fully, it's nice to see his growth reflected in him officially joining the other series leads as a captain. Besides "Captain Sisko" just sounds better. I don't personally think his promotion needed a whole episode. I'm happy with the short and sweet scene we got. As for flag officers in other divisions, we've actually had a few. There was Toddman a few eps back who was in a gold uniform, so probably a bigwig at starfleet security. For other examples we can go back to TOS Court Martial. We saw Commodore Stone in a red uniform(Security/Engineering/Ops), and there was another captain present in a sciences uniform. So it can happen, but it's rare. Ever since Heart of Stone, we've known the other changelings can perfectly mimic other people, so it wasn't a stretch to conclude they likely have spies in the Alpha Quadrant. I suppose the first thing they'd need to do is locate a secluded area to regenerate in. Don't want someone finding you when you're a puddle of goup. BTW, the guy who played the Krajensky Changeling is the same actor who played Ghemor in Second Skin. I always thought it was hypocritical that the whole "no changeling has ever harmed another" didn't seem to apply to this changeling destroying the Defiant and everyone aboard, including Odo. But some comments pointed out, there's no reason to think he was trying to destroy the Defiant. He was trying to start a war that would destabilize and weaken the Federation and the Alpha Quadrant as a whole. Once the Defiant attacks and destroys the Tzenkethi settlement, I'd guess the invasive circuitry would be programmed to deactivate, and possibly use the transporters to lock onto and dematerialize anything that could be presented as evidence of sabotage, leaving starfleet successfully framed. However at that point they would have control back and would presumably retreat under cloak, so Odo wouldn't be killed. Gotta say though, the CGI during the fight was pretty bad even in the 90s. Not their best work. What will be the consequence of Odo killing one of his own? Presumably they can't kill him if it's such a taboo for them. Permanent exile? Imprisonment? Going after someone he cares about? Hard to say how they'll react. To paraphrase Picard, they may "have no law to fit his crime". Also beyond what the changelings think of him, what will Odo think of himself. He made a point of saying he's never taken a life, and doesn't even want to handle a phaser. Now not only is that no longer true, but he has to wrestle with the fact he's the only changeling (as far as he or we know) that's killed one of his own. For someone so opposed to killing, it's got to be eating him up. Great finale though. Solid A tier.

Tim Nikiforovs

Oh I bet he says that to all the captains he serves with. O'Brien "Here's to the newest, and BEST captain in starfleet" Computer "Incoming message for Chief O'Brien from former Captain Maxwell" Computer "Incoming message for Chief O'Brien from Captain Picard" Sisko "Chief??" O'Brien "Well I......"

Prof Moff

I see an issue. The above is only main cast. Here is the guest/extras/mirror/everyone else list. These are everyone that appeared in seasons 1-3 (except the enterprise crew from Ep1) and their full star trek count including other shows. Nagus 5 Mirror Kira 4 Lwaxana 4 Leta 1 Cassidy 1 Minister 1 Pel 1 Natima 1 Kor 1 Mardah l T Riker 1 Wynn 1 Numbnuts 1 (so boring I forgot his name, the Kira bang dildo, the one that can't even be considered a vibrator because it moves he doesn't) Mirror Jadzia 1

Loot Narsbaar

The tiebreaker to me besides having the two best episodes (highest ceiling), is I like the vibe of the show better that season. That was before the bridge was lit too brightly, before Riker’s arc was done, and there was more tension… more story based episodes mixed in.

Loot Narsbaar

You know for the price of just three episodes of current day trek they could remaster ds9 and VOY. (From what I hear) I wonder how many more streams that would have gotten paramount. Plus you could do a limited run of blu rays…

Loot Narsbaar

and Picard and Geordi refer to him as “Captain Scott”

Loot Narsbaar

Been wondering if that fake Indian huckster slipped in the word “coochie” just to see what he could get on the air

Jason Aud

I've had that thought too! One or two less put into that and complete the catalog in HD with DS9 and Voyager. I for one will rewatch those for the 50th time over alot of this new stuff haha.

Loot Narsbaar

The thing is old people might not be part of the demo, but they do tend to forget about their recurring payments

Scott B.

They're watching off the real life boxsets, the box art already spoiled them

Deliximus

I don't disagree but they don't know which ep

Matchstick Jose

I don't think Josh and Alex mentioned it (forgive me if I missed it) and some people were surprised when I pointed it out in the Discord, but Lawrence Pressman, who plays Ambassador Krajensky, also played Legate Tekeny Ghemor, Kira's "father," in Second Skin. Guess he did such a good job differentiating the two characters that not everybody notices it's the same actor.

Imogen S

They do, you and everyone else keeps saying the season 4 premiere. They might not have known what episode once upon a time, but these kinda comments made sure that they do now!

roboethical

I’ve seen the episode at least 3-4 times over the years, but I didn’t notice it until the last rewatch.

JordanK1991

They've stated multiple times in previous episodes that they are already aware. The sentiment of wanting them to be surprised is nice though.

Deliximus

Good call out watched this 5x and didn't catch that!

Dr. Paul Stubbs

Eddington is so dumb, how is he the security officer? If he knows he isn't the changeling, then obviously someone just tampered with his blood sample. And the only person who could have tampered with it is Bashir. Just calmly explain this to Sisko and ask them to test Bashir. Instead, he acts incredulous and says something like, "the real shapeshifter would fight back." Absolutely no situational awareness.

Dr. Paul Stubbs

RE originality: Return of the Jedi also copied a lot from A New Hope, with its final Death Star run, but no one really complains about it. And famously, Lucas said the prequels should "rhyme" with the original series. I think the problem with the sequels is that they "reset" the entire Star Wars universe back to repeat the empire vs. rebels plot of the original instead of letting things "rhyme" in a new context, like the prequels did.

River Acheron

Yeah, for example I manage a Health and Beauty dept at ShopRite. I don't care what my store manager thinks I should do...if my corporate supervisor gives me a direct order (suntan lotion by the entrance for example), I will obey corporate EVERY SINGLE TIME. And yes this is a real life example. When given conflicting orders, I go with the one higher up in the hierarchy of power. (that, and HR has my back). Eddington not only did nothing wrong. He did EVERYTHING right.

Summer

Fascinating, you could see Kzinti changing to Tzenkethi, so I think we can call it canon

kevin coleman

For two guys who complain about sequels and remakes as much as ya'll do, I'm surprised to hear you say you don't value originality at all. You sure about that?

Godzilla PhD

I thought it was Moore who said that. There was a few rug pulls and priority changes during these first 3 years which made the direction and control of the show chaotic. DS9 was supposed to be THE Trek show, but when Paramount wanted to launch UPN, they wanted another TNG. I can't imagine how the cast and crew felt after realizing that the network and powers that be for Trek were basically ignoring you. Hardly any promotion after season 1, Voyager got it all, and was seen as a return to TNG form. Even the fans were pretty negative. I was on USENET newsgroups at the time, and the general fan reaction to DS9 was pretty harsh.

Numinous2019

Godzilla PhD, I don't think Voyager is a bad show, but I had consistent trouble with its tone not meshing with its premise. Paramount were concerned that the premise would lead to a dark, intense show. Piller, Berman and Ryan had to reassure Paramount that they could avoid most of that. DS9 is my favourite ST show because it did something different. I still think Voyager needed to move ST into a format and style that was fresh. Franchises need to keep changing in order to avoid diminishing returns. However, the commercial realities are that these series were expensive to make and needed a big enough audience to justify the next ST show being commissioned. So it's a Catch-22.

Scarpad’s Domain

I think they missed that fake bashir swapped the vials

JordanK1991

Can't wait for the season 4 premiere!