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UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TOS - Plato's Stepchildren S3E10 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-03-02 20:14:31
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Here is our full uncut reaction to Plato's Stepchildren

We are officially finished with single-digit TOS episodes as we enter episode 10 of the final season. Pretty wild to think about. 

Looking forward to your thoughts as always.

Thank you for being a Patron & enjoy!

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Patreon UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TOS - Plato's Stepchildren S3E10

Comments

Ricky Johnson

This is one of the strange ones. People seem to either love it or hate it. I liked it as a kid - pretty neutral today. It was supposed to be the first interracial kiss on TV - but it has been proven to actually be the second. This is one you know had to be from season three.

Edweirdo

What is the over/under on how many comments mention the kiss?

Jeff Cornell

Yes, this was (one of?) the first interracial kisses on American network television. This concludes the list of nice things I have to say about this episode.

Steven Johnson

So, you basically got the story right on the kissing scene. Roddenberry was arguing with the producers. They were concerned that the "Bible belt" would drop the show entirely if they did the kiss. So when it came time to do that scene Shatner started hamming it up. They did the kiss first, and he kept telling the director he just wasn't feeling it. He said "I think we need to fight it more" and so on and on.... and Nichelle says she caught on pretty quickly what he was trying to do. So after doing that for hours, the director was told they had time enough for one more take... So they had to get the version where Shatner doesn't kiss her... So the plan for the alternate shot was to have Shatner dip Nichelle under frame, so you don't see it. What Shatner did was dip Nichelle down, and then look right down the barrel of the camera and cross his eyes. Director yelled "cut! print! Done!" Not realizing what had happened. When they saw dailies later on the producers, Gene included, all laughed their asses off. So we have Bill Shatner to thank for the first on screen television interracial kiss. On the greater scene that takes place in... Really a subject of what would be the censorship of the time, it's only implied, but Kirk and Uhura, and Spock and Chapel are basically supposed to be having an orgy for the audience. I can imagine a modern version of this where it gets more explicit. Not that it would be a good thing, just... Star Trek by way of game of Thrones. That's what that scene is very heavily implying. Some Caligua type stuff. Not a favorite of mine, but I thought you guys would enjoy the really campy stuff going on here. I forgot how well Alexander comes off. He's a very likeable and sympathetic character. Coming up on the second half of Season 3, and the end of an era. I'll be very curious to hear your complete thoughts when you reach the end. In my opinion Star Trek seldom reaches the heights of the original series in some ways. Technology improves, but... TOS has a lot of inventive stuff in it, that ALL of Star Trek, and even a lot of science fiction in general, including Star Wars by the way... Gene Roddenberry and George Lucas were great friends, and even had letters back and forth. George loved Star Trek, and Gene loved Star Wars.

Andreas Schmitt

I actually really liked this one :) I think this episode just connects massively with anybody who has ever been bullied as the weaker one. I guess that's why it spoke to me when I was a kid.

James H

I'm pretty neutral on this episode. Decent, but not one of my favorites. From what I've heard, it was one of a handful of Star Trek episodes banned by the BBC for many years... because of the representation of torture, I guess? Odd that they haven't been to Earth in 2,500 years and yet they know English and even some French (pièce de résistance). But then all aliens seem to know English, don't they?

Andreas Schmitt

In regards to what you said about "Character stuff" vs "Weird sci fi", I think you'll keep enjoying the shows. THey pretty much all have a good mix of goofy comedic episodes. serious character stuff, weird sci fi stuff, and more philosophical stuff. This one was pretty far into the philosophical stuff, exploring "plato's utopia", which ironically was actually picture of a very totalitarian society. I never went much into it, so other people can probably say more about it, but the bad thing about Plato's Republic, the book he wrote about an ideal society, and ANY utopia, the communist utopia or any other idea of one, is that any time you want to create an ideal society, you can only do it with massive social engineering which ends up being impossible without going deep into totalitarianism (some cultural ideas of today strongly fall into that trap as well, as so many times in history). So I like that aspect of it as an adult, and the anti-bully thing as a child. But as I said...the "mix" of different types of stuff will remain a consistent thing throughout all of classic Star Trek all the way to the end of ST: Enterprise. All the shows have deep personal character stories as well as just fun action sci fi, some fun goofy stuff and some discussions of philosophy. There's something for everybody in it. And I think you'll keep enjoying plenty of episodes in all the shows :)

Andreas Schmitt

When you mentioned that Star Trek inspired people to become astronauts... not just that. You can find plenty of interviews with James Doohan, talking about how many fan letters he got from young people who were inspired by him to go to MIT and become engineers or computer scientists. DeForest Kelley talking about how many people told him he made them want to become doctors. And of course Uhura inspiring plenty of people. She inspired Whoppie Goldberg so much that even though she already was a superstar, she agreed to a deal the show could afford, just to be a part of TNG. She wanted to be a part of ST so much, to give some part of that back, which Uhura had given her as a character, and Nichelle Nichols as an actress. Star Trek inspired a huge number of people, which is why its such a shame such shows don't exist anymore in this way to inspire young people of today, some of whom need a hopeful inspiration so badly. Back then Star Trek told young people: If you want to make sure the future looks like this, become an engineer, a doctor, work hard, get an education and be the best human being you can be. Nowadays young people get told: The future is doomed, the planet will die, you'll never even have your own home, so don't bother, just blame the older generations for screwing everything up. It's sad really. When I meet people in their 20s now that ARE inspired to change something by actually becoming engineers or such.. they are often still inspired by these old shows. I have never heard of anybody that was inspired to do good to this degree by any modern form of media...

Andreas Schmitt

Making way too many comments here but: Quantum Leap is still a fantastic show for you guys, since it's also very episodic and does something completely new every single episode. If you EVER do another "let's watch the pilot episode", that should be the one :)

Andreas Schmitt
>>103161421

I think every single one of the shows reaches highs in Star Trek, just different ones, exploring different things. But if I made a list of all my very favorite episodes I think an episode from almost every show would be on it. maybe not one from Voyager since I kinda didn't watch that one much (looking forward to watching some of its episodes for the first time with these guys though), but I think every show had highlights of Star Trek. But of course TOS remains the original that started it all :)

Steven Johnson
>>103161421

Oh, I'm not saying that Star Trek was never good after this. Not at all. I've said it in previous comments, but I actually started with the first six movies. I saw TMP when I was four. The TOS movies are probably my most beloved Star Trek stories. I'd actually say that, for example, TNG is more "consistently good." Once you get to Season 3 of TNG the show jumps in quality, and from Season 3 to season 6 you have a very consistent quality of production, on the whole the writing is consistently good, etc. It becomes a very cohesive universe. The side effect is I don't think TNG hits the peaks nearly as much as TOS did, nor do I think they had quite the same level of raw, virgin-territory imagination that TOS did.

Firekrys FWO

I liked this one as a kid, and as an adult, while I see all the flaws, I still liked the concepts and felt some of the scenes had good acting. Yes, Nichelle Nichols inspired a lot of people, and for me, I am Asian, so George Takei inspired me to pursue theater and acting. I met him a few decades later and got to thank him for that.

Ken R

I would think you are totally wrong when saying Leonard Nimoy probably hated it. He got to sing, something all actors love or wish they could do. He got so few chances to laugh and cry, he probably jumped at the chance.

Collin Freeman

I give this episode a C-. When Star Trek is done right, it's a beautiful combination of characters, message/moral-play, and sci-fi. But it's the characters most of all that kept at least me coming back for more. Josh, loved your raised eyebrow during the credits when Leonard Nimoy's name came up. Nice touch. Shatner had plenty of screen-time to overact and do his Shatner-esque body movements & contortions in this episode. I think his hairpiece is more obvious in this episode. Also, a lot of props with wires in this episode. I think Josh is probably right: Nimoy hated most of the 3rd season episodes, and this 1 was probably no exception. Trek nerd trivia 1: actress Barbara Babcock (Philana) appeared in the 1st season episode "A Taste of Armageddon". Trek nerd trivia 2: dwarf actor Michael Dunn was considered for the role of Mr. Spock by Gene Roddenberry in The Cage pilot since Roddenberry had not settled on the exact look of Spock other than he wanted the character to look 'alien'. He was also considered for the part of Balok in The Corbomite Maneuver which ended up going to Clint Howard. Trek nerd trivia 3: Yes, the NBC suits were very nervous about the inter-racial kiss. The director had Gene Roddenberry actually come down to the set, which he almost never did in the 3rd season. Roddenberry made his typically proclamation: "Film it both ways." and left. I think Nichelle Nichols corroborated Shatner's account of the funny faces. Trek nerd trivia 4: Leonard Nimoy composed the song "Maiden Wine" for Spock's forced musical harp scene.

Prof Moff

wow. This ep bothers me so much not actually because it is that horrible, but because it could have a great one. It has moments of great dialogue and dealing with big issues in a great way but the moments of shear ridiculousness just ruins it. I can't tell if it was really good writing that gave us the great story moments and really bad directing just to far over the top stupid events. Not sure.

deconstructionist66

I bailed 25 minutes in, thanks to Shatner's abysmal overacting. A series low for me. David Alexander directed two episodes of Star Trek, this and The Way to Eden. I know I hate this one, and I remember hating the other as well.

Ricky Johnson
>>103161421

We think alike Andreas - I can think of only one episode of Voyager that rate with high regard, Did you like Enterprise?

Ricky Johnson
>>103164867

Yes, big fan of Alexander. Did you see him as the villain in Wild Wild West? He has some pretty good range as an actor.

Andreas Schmitt
>>103161421

@Steven Johnson: I grew up with the TOS movies too. They are my favorite era :) @Ricky Johnson: I did like Enterprise yes. I think season 3 was too much of a change and too 911 inspired (but I understand that this was a thing that was just happening at the time in the US with a lot of media). However I liked what they did in that season with 'the relationship'. Not spoiling anything :) But I loved even season 1-2. I just didn't like the temporal subplot. That never worked and I'M glad they eventually dropped it. But the pure normal episodes I really enjoyed, and I loved Archer as a captain. And season 4 was some of the best Star Trek to me, aside from the last episode obviously. But both Berman and Braga have by now admitted that it was a bad idea and a mistake, if a well intentioned one. I understand what they were trying to do, so I am accepting their apology. But for me I rather skip that later episode. But the rest of Enterprise I did like, and knowing what the plans were for the remaining 3 seasons,the planned upgrades to the ship etc... it's really a shame they got cancelled. That show should have gotten its 7 seasons. They cancelled it just when it hit its highest points.

James H
>>103169308

I believe Nimoy even wrote that song himself, in fact (“Maiden Wine”).

Jonathan

You will get plenty of episodic tv from Star Trek in most of the series. Enterprise actually failed to get traction due to being too much like the original series in being completely episodic for a long time.

Jonathan

This episode just seems long to me and it’s too close to all the other powerful being episodes but it’s not in my bottom 5 episodes

Brad Barter

This episide still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There were a few good moments but the dancing, singing etc just dragged way too much and for me wasn't entertaining but to each their own. Also although Leonard Nimoy most likely hated some of what Spock was doing in this episode, it's interesting to know that Nimoy relished the episodes where Spock had uncontrollable emotions such as laughing and crying, being excited or angry simply because Spock was generally emotionless and he found himself laughing or crying off screen because he couldn't help it, the emotions forced their way out. Incidentally the woman playing Parmin's wife we have seen in season 1 of Star Trek in the episode A Taste of Armageddon where she was deemed killed by computer warfare and was expected to report to one of their disintegration machines but was stopped by Kirk before she could.

Andreas Schmitt
>>103170074

I think Nimoy might have hated some of the scripts but I also think, of all actors he was probably the one being most motivated to make the best of what they had for the good of the character, hence stuff like inventing the neck grip or writing a song for this episode.

Andreas Schmitt
>>103172200

I think nowadays we overreact to some of those scenes a bit too much. Back then a lot of shows were basically done like stage plays, just with a camera instead of a live audience. And that kind of overacting in scenes like this is pretty normal on stage. So it wasn't THAT out of place or cringe back when it was made. Now adays where TV has turned into its own entire thing, especially now with streaming, huge budgets and a completely different approach to story telling and taking itself much more seriously as a medium... it's different. Remember back when ST TOS was made, TV was still trying to figure out how to even make a show like this. This was all new territory, and most actors were still trained on the stage, and even a lot later, most actor schools still considered a career in TV a step down not a worthwhile endeavor. I've certainly seen stage plays where the overacting in some scenes was MUCH worse and a lot harder to tolerate.

Andreas Schmitt
>>103181427

Which is a shame because Enterprise was amazing in its final 4th season. That show deserved its full 7 season run. TNG also needed three seasons to find itself. (Don't worry Alex and Josh, the first 3 seasons stillhave good stuff, but the show is still experimenting with what it wants to be at that point)

Rich Cirivilleri

James Doohan was born 103 years ago today. March 3, 1920.

Prof Moff
>>103172200

I have to disagree with you applying that here. I know what you are saying but this was way to much. I mean the telekinesis over a body, okay but way to much of it looking just ridiculous. Platos could sometimes control voice (Spock sings) but sometimes not, when under their control Kirk and the crew carried on conversation but how they could not stop it. Spending so much time on stupid looking things, what did that bring? I like slow builds and extended scenes that may go on a bit to long and be over done if there is a reason but wow. And how did the Platos (I know, whatever they are) control Spock's emotions? If they could, like some other episodes, then why didn't they make Kirk and Uhura love each other for the kiss. As I said, too much stupid stuff took away from me the possible great story line of judging someone based on looks, power being corruptive, loyalty and so many other issues this episode was ALMOST about. That was all I meant. It was way more disappointing of an episode than a bad one

Gary Leyh

Greek names? Kratos! That line from you was worth sitting through this horrible episode. So funny and I just finished Ragnarok! I know the actor playing Alexander from the show The Wild Wild West from this era, love him! Great reaction!

Sherman Lin

Regarding episodic story telling versus long story archs I think X-Files does nicely to blend the two. Half the episodes were singular creature of the week episodes and half advanced the longer story arch. I don't remember if you discussed either already having seen X-Files or discussed that as a possibility but I think you would really enjoy it. I feel X-Files really upped the game by network television. Cheers

TeenyStudio Flicks

The Shakespearean trend in TOS is expanded and solidified in the later movies and series. Great plays, literature and classical music seems to have been a favorite of Gene Roddenberry by its continual presence in his films and series. A lot of the future actors have had stage play experience too. It even was in the prequel series 'Star Trek: Enterprise' to some extent even though it was a more rough mechanical space series.

Michael Nemo

I DEMAND THAT YOU LOVE THIS EPISODE!!!!!!!!!!!!! (flicks wrist)

MertzRocks

In many syndicated markets during the 70s, the scene with Alexander riding Kirk like a horse was edited out (SACRILEGE!!)... The first time I saw that it blew my mind and made the episode even better imo. Even though I don't consider it one of the best of S3, I do count it among my favorite eps overall!

Timothy Nikiforovs

There are many times in various trek shows where aliens mess with the crew, but none I can think of more uncomfortable/cringe than this episode. There are some interesting ideas in here, and Alexander was a great character, but I think the negatives drag it down and outweigh the positives. Even with whole "first interracial kiss"(even though it actually wasn't) I don't really see it being all that progressive since they're basically being forced to do it, and then it's followed up with Kirk being forced to whip Uhura, which obviously carries some distasteful implications, to say nothing of Spock almost branding Chapel. But yeah, Alexander was the highlight of the episode. You gotta respect that he turned down having the power. Clearly he's the most principled person on the planet by far, so I'm glad he got his freedom at the end.

Prof Moff

TOS Sex Scoreboard No sex, no fun, no scores. Kirk 9 Chekov 3 Spock 2 Bones 2 Extras: I don't see Kirk and Uhura. I do really think I could get Scotty and Uhura though. That looks like a fun hook up but has nothing to do with this episode.