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Memory Transcription Subject: Tassi, Bissem Alien Liaison

Date [standardized human time]: December 22, 2160

The sudden appearance of warp signatures on the sensors drew a lot of attention across the auditorium, since we knew it wasn’t one of the SC’s members. It was unlikely to be the Shield either, since their Duerten founders harbored nothing but disdain for the Kolshians. Who else could it be, riding to the rescue; or was it someone arriving to follow through on Korajan’s prior suggestion of helping the raiders? I watched with a bit of anxiety, fearful that this might be a setback in a tense defense. This was the downside of not being synced into military command, and getting information with a bit of a delay. It was difficult to focus as our vessels kept chipping away at the hostiles, and the formation adjusted to make room for the newcomers. Of course, it must be friendlies; humanity had to lower the disruptors to let them in, after all!

You jump to worries too quickly, Tassi. After everything that’s happened since first contact, you’ve become quite swift to assume the worst. Let’s hear what the Yotul has to say.

“We’ve lowered the disruptors for moment, as it appears we’re getting…unexpected reinforcements. We received a message offering aid in our defensive efforts,” Onso announced, ears pinned back with distaste. That was enough to let my feathers settle a bit, hearing that these reinforcements were a boon to our cause rather than a hindrance. “The Federation remnants want to save their precious founders. We’ll take the help, but those oppression-loving shits aren’t allies I would’ve chosen.”

Secretary-General Kuemper seemed surprised. “I didn’t expect Mei—our request for them to help us to actually work. The Drezjin and Malti were quite loyal to the Kolshians—”

“Enough to bomb us. We don’t have diplomatic relations with those two for a reason,” Korajan huffed.

“—so I’m not surprised to see them spearheading the attack, alongside the Yulpa and the Shield’s own Tevin: whom you do associate with. You know who their friends are, Korajan. Most of these ships are manned, but we can make use of them. Eighty-thousand craft is a lot: half a thousand per Remnant species.” She wishes she could’ve gotten that much support from the SC; I can hear it in her voice. “It seems like they sent almost all of their military to aid Aafa, though they might have ideas about…liberating it afterward.”

“They better not. We can’t just let the Kolshians go—and go to them, of all people. That will not be tolerated, and after maintaining relations with the Shield, they must know that! Angering us would be a grave mistake.”

“That’s a problem for after we rout the invaders. UN command has established contact; I’m going to transfer that to the speakers, so we can hear their intentions. It’s a great sign that they’re willing to work with us.”

A human male voice was speaking over the lines. “—welcome party later, fall in and fire on the invaders.”

“No, you owe us answers. Why are the Arxur here? We can see the fucking banner, so don’t tell us it’s not them!” a Yulpa voice shouted, irrational with fury. “You do fucking work with those predatory abominations! You let a raiding party in.”

“Those are drones, not with any, um, carnivorous entities aboard. It can’t be a raid. It wasn’t our first choice, but they came whether we liked it or not, and they’re helping. We had no idea you were coming; there might be a way to keep them away from you, if you want to offer support back here. It’d keep you safe.”

“Safe, with the Arxur around? You are fools at best, and savages more likely. We’re going to do our duty against the enemies of civilized preyfolk. You interfere, and we’ll put you back on the list of predator sacrifices with them.”

“Now isn’t the time to fight them. Aafa is at stake, and these Arxur you hate could be taken out for you, by the current enemy they’re fighting. Just listen—”

“We don’t have to listen to any more of your talking. These are the Arxur, who ate and bred sapients as cattle, and you think we should wait for them not to be distracted? It’s just the same as when you said, before the whole galaxy, that they would be isolated—and here they are! Either you’re in bed with them, bald-faced liars, or you have no semblance of control of them; you can’t vouch for them protecting Aafa. This is a golden opportunity to eradicate their ships. There are two enemies here, and by the Spirit of Life, we’re fighting them both!”

The Sapient Coalition delegates, including Secretary-General Kuemper, watched slack-jawed as the Yulpa led a Federation charge against the Arxur. The Malti had rebuilt their old tube-shaped bombers, according to a barely composed Onso, and had them primed to fire. The Terran leader was quickly encircled by her advisors, since that exchange had taken a turn she didn’t expect. What should the humans even do about this? They weren’t partial to standing against the entire galaxy on the Collective’s behalf; after all, even their own allies were barely tolerating their escapade. The Carnivore Alliance compelled the Bissem-Sivkit craft to stand up for Kaisal, but we didn’t want our ships dragged into this mess. 

Besides, it was too important to become unfocused from Aafa—the drones had to be stopped, or billions of Kolshians would die. While some had been evacuated to long dormant colonies, many had refused to abandon their homes, which would be trading one hellscape for another. The United Nations wavered at the prospect of interference in this Remnant assault, given that would entail starting a war with a polity that held just shy of a hundred-fifty species in its membership. That was a reason Naltor wasn’t keen to take them on either; it would set their sights on us as carnivores to become predator sacrifices. Our diet would make it quite easy for them to select us as a target for their hatred. So we all watched as the Federation remnants barged into the middle of a tooth-and-nail defense, and the Malti fired hundreds of their bombs onto the Arxur’s tails.

“Provoking predators?” Loxsel cackled. “I approve.”

General Naltor seemed to have forgotten his directive for the Sivkit to remain silent. “The Arxur are your allies!”

“Yes, and no. It’s finally getting interesting! Prey versus baleful beast; a contest which will confusticate all the rapacious menaces. The forever-walkers are enfeebled, and do not assert themselves; their lack of viciousness is an endless source of disappointment, though Nishtal showed a flicker of the war savages with their storied past! However, they are tame. But the Arxur—the Arxur will not bear such insults!” 

“Yes, I doubt anything less than retaliation will cross their minds,” Zalk scoffed. “Nevertheless, the Arxur are at a two-to-one deficit. Even having drones, that is a massive disadvantage.”

“Until the prey become frightful and scatter, for they cannot fathom the guileful ways of the carcass-cravers! That excludes the doormat humans choosing parlays before predatory tetchiness, of course. This contest will bring only misery to the rabble-rousing cattle. Lo, the Malti’s entrails shall be liquified to flotsam, with real casualties! They shall rue the day!”

“You sound like you want them to get clobbered by the grays.”

“It’s not about that; I upbraid you for suggesting so, simpleton! Can an entertainer not be excited by the prospect of bonafide casualties? Bellynigh, they are; bellynigh, I say!”

As Loxsel waxed poetic about the disaster of epic proportions unfolding, the Terrans were anything but amused. What should have been an infusion of allies that gave us overwhelming odds was breaking out into infighting; the Arxur were wheeling away from the unknown enemy where possible, though they couldn’t turn every ship without becoming easy pickings for the invading drones. The Yotul and Venlil stepped up and got in the hostiles’ faces, despite the fact the former had been keeping back. They didn’t want to witness an utter breakdown in our formation, as the two sides began throwing shots at each other and the invaders: a three-way bout. Some SC vessels were caught in the middle, or forced out of position to avoid the crossfire.

“We need to defuse the situation.” Secretary-General Kuemper hurriedly placed an outgoing call onto the screen, as she’d seemed to decide that the Arxur might listen; there was little chance of getting through to the Federation. “I’m going to offer concessions to stop our forces from tearing each other to pieces. Time is of the essence. We’re open to ideas, if you want to approach our staffers.”

“How dare you?” Kaisal’s indignant face appeared with roared words, fangs bared like he wanted to rip Kuemper to shreds. I noticed several SC delegates trembling at his appearance, binocular eyes narrowed to yellow slits. “We come to help you save this worthless planet, and your friends shoot at us—while you do nothing to stop them?”

“I understand your anger, and I am deeply sorry. Look, we don’t know what to do, but we know we don’t want another galactic war between our entities. I’m asking you to disengage, rather than to lose valuable ships and lives needlessly. Retreat from the system for now, and we could bring you back after—”

“You spineless weak-bloods! You’re siding with preyfolk that hate you and dream of a day they can wipe you from existence, instead of us, after we’ve stood by your side time and again? They attacked our ships without provocation, and you want me to roll my belly up before the watchful eyes of my subservients?! To let them shoot us in the back, losing thousands of ships unanswered. Never! We won’t!”

“Kaisal, we’ll personally replace every ship you’ve lost, if you just don’t return fire now. You have every right to retaliate later, should you feel it’s worthwhile to go up against three-digits worth of species again, though I don’t think any of us are eager to repeat the past. What you call weakness is us trying to keep peace; we’re strong enough to know fighting is not worth the cost. Loss of life isn’t worth it. Let us rebuild your ships, and at least for today, preserve Aafa.”

“You won’t give the Arxur ships. You’ll let my fleet die so you have an excuse to send us back into exile. Humans never go against the prey! They make your decisions for you.”

“That is absolutely untrue. We work hand-in-hand with our allies and are unyielding in our goals of peace and progress. We do keep our promises, like how we stopped them from wiping you out post-war in the first place. Who else do you think thought your lives were worthy of sparing at all, for a better future? Is that weakness, Kaisal?”

The Arxur’s breaths were strained from fury. “What a great concession, Secretary-General; you let us live. I guess we’re forever in your debt, despite the fact you wouldn’t have won your war without us—and humanity would be dead! Have you all forgotten what you owe us? Shoot those Federation mewlers!”

“I can’t do that, Kaisal. After Aafa is preserved, we can talk about it, though. We appreciate all of your help…”

“I tire of your talking, leaf-licker. If you won’t fight beside us, there’s nothing to say. The Federation idiots must be dealt with, and you’re mad to think you’ll ever have peace with them. Pretend you’re like your prey friends all you want: they won’t abide your existence. We will.”

The Arxur disconnected from the call, and his drones ramped up the attack on the Remnants simultaneously; they carved up the Malti tube bombers with prejudice using their railguns, while also zipping toward the Yulpa ships—the same class used to capture predators from across the galaxy. The invading drones had turned their focus away from the two powers, who were busy killing themselves, and went for discombobulated SC ships. Those friendlies were herded back toward where the Collective and the Feds were fighting, so that they’d get cut down by friendly fire. The humans had made no indication to step in on any side; there was also no time to retreat back toward Aafa, since the invaders were pressing toward the UN’s formation at full speed.

On Naltor’s holopad, I saw a Bissem ship wander into an Arxur’s plasma beam, before getting rammed by a slew of Malti missiles intended for a reptilian target; the Collective drone had the nerve to duck behind our vessel, using it as a shield! The Selmer general looked furious, before he decided to be the first to call for a retreat. If the grays were using us as cover, then we’d use their chaotic firefight as interference to get out of here. Various Sapient Coalition members saw our departure from the shitshow, and a few joined in. The Yotul and the Venlil were getting cut down without support, after attracting the enemy’s attention, and the humans had lost a few thousand ships to friendly fire. The chatter across the room rose in pitch, as leaders and representatives called for their species’ forces to be pulled out.

The invaders pressed past Caato, pushing the SC back toward Aafa. What was left of our defensive line faltered, desperately spitting munitions to acquire any room to backpedal. The hostile drones had spotted an opportunity to break us altogether, popping off a few, well-placed antimatter warheads to scramble our forces even further. The battleground was quickly becoming everyone for themselves, without any semblance of cohesion. The humans, Yotul, and Venlil soon wouldn’t have any of those fifteen thousand SC ships to back them; the Krakotl seemed like the only ones in this hall who were ride-or-die with the UN today. The grays and the Remnants were still cleaving through each other’s vessels, only turning an occasional glance toward the invaders; they’d both lost tens of thousands of ships, and didn’t seem to be helping us any longer.

The Terrans can’t fight the enemy alone, and there’s no mounting any resistance with the Remnants and the Arxur slaughtering each other. I think Kuemper is about to call for a retreat, trying to save whatever ships she can and hope to regroup.

“Half of the United Nations’ vessels are down. I fear we may have to consider what we can send to the…next engagement with these drones. There wasn’t enough allied participation here before, and what little we had is up in smoke,” Kuemper sighed, evident frustration seeping through in a rare display. “We’re going to unload every antimatter missile and remaining explosive we have to cover our retreat. Run as far away as we can, until we have a chance to…prepare for warp.”

“What’s to stop them from chasing us? They’re breathing down our necks!” the Harchen ambassador called out.

“They won’t come for us if we head…away from the planet. Everyone who’s already ducked the fray, just head to the system’s outskirts. To think we apologized to the Yulpa; I hope they’re happy with what they’ve done. Screw all of this! There is never any option to be moral or just in this organization. You can expect my resignation when I get back to Earth.”

The Secretary-General stormed out of the auditorium, evidently unable to corral her anger at the Yulpa and the Arxur alike. The shock of having the Terran leader erupt in anger, and announce that she was through with the Sapient Coalition, stirred quite a buzz throughout the chamber. With the humans walking out amid a war meeting, I knew that Aafa was as good as gone. When they gave up the defense of a planet, chalking it up as a loss, there was no one left to fight for it. The SC ships hurled everything they had, trying to blow everything in their immediate wake sky high to facilitate an escape. I barely registered the mines and cloaked stations that tried to cut down a few bombers, or the last Arxur and Remnants duking it out as the enemy, having moved well past Caato, ignored them.

Having fallen into disunity and division, the Sapient Coalition forces here were the antithesis of what we saw at Nishtal; they’d collapsed beneath the weight of old feuds that flared up at the wrong time. I couldn’t blame Kuemper for walking out in disgust, since we were seeing hideous pandemonium play out despite the highest stakes. The powerful lasers on the Aafa’s moon were still under UN control, and aimed into the heart of the hostile fleet. However, they achieved very little against the enemy’s liquid armor. It proved a simple waltz into orbit, to blanket the world below in a hail of explosions. Unimpeded, the final flank of the drone assault did what they’d come to do. Fiery plumes dotted the planet’s surface, as the SC delegates watched billions die on a screen. 

There weren’t enough expressions of horror and mournfulness for the Kolshians. I wished that we’d been able to do more, fighting with what we had, but our efforts had been sabotaged from within. Our few hundred ships wouldn’t have made a difference alone, and Bissems had to protect our own world; it was clear that the Sapient Coalition couldn’t always be relied upon to come together. Even the Arxur, who promised to stand with us in the Carnivore Alliance, prioritized pride and reprisal over the greater good. We had to get our affairs in order, or else Aafa could be only the first planet to suffer for the galaxy’s disorder. I wasn’t sure what would come of this humiliating defeat, but I knew that relations in the Orion Arm were complicated. 

The Collective and the Remnants had fired the first shots of a new war, and the SC just proved that they weren’t the least bit ready to grapple with that fallout. I hoped the powerful, peacemaking humanity who’d shown up at Nishtal, emboldened by the support and diversity of their allies, would find their way back into this forum’s helm.

A/N - 64! The new arrivals are Federation remnants who showed up based on Meier’s speech, hoping to save Aafa, but they go ballistic when they see the SC fighting alongside the Arxur. A Yulpa commander leads an attack on the Collective, unable to be talked down by the humans; Kaisal is equally furious that the UN won’t interfere in the conflict, for fear of starting another war, and refuses to stand his drones down for any of Kuemper’s promises. The three-way battle throws the SC into disarray and results in friendly fire, before the parties that had come to defend Aafa flee to salvage their ships. Disgusted with her own allies, and having failed to stop this calamity, Kuemper resigns as SecGen and storms out.

What will come of the Arxur-Federation war, and how will the SC handle the fallout? Should humanity have picked a side, even if it meant the UN would be dragged into a second war; or should Kaisal have been the bigger person, and stood down? How do you feel about the chaos and the failure to defend Aafa, in total contrast to what was seen at Nishtal?

As always, thank you for reading and supporting!

Comments

pogman

First

Elliott

YES. I'm with L-Man here, JUICY JUICY conflict and drama. Federation always knows how to start a party by pooping on one.

Hive

Finally humanity gets their bill for their dumb strategy of appeasing everybody without a plan for the future and its utter lack of spine in dealing with some of their allies. Locking up the Farsul because the Venlil would get angry, same with the Kolshians and the Yotul and also ignoring the Arxur and their reasonable request of contact and relations. Such a good long term strategy. Especially, because the new generation of all three species is not guilty of their ancestors' crimes. The "we are the moral high ground" - UN completely forgot about this principle. Or is the North Korea running the justice part of the UN administration?!

Swan

Atleast Caato (and the kolhsians on it) was unharmed I guess? still fuckin depressing (But good chapter tho)

TheBlack2007

Oof! So one single zealot caused an entire planet to fall, with the Fed remnants and the Arxur exchanging fire we now have a second war to worry about and to top it all off, we might have seen the beginning of the end of the SC. Kuemper‘s lifelong dream was to work with Aliens. Her handing in her resignation out of frustration from, well: working with Aliens spells nothing good for the future of that organization. They now either reform quickly or it will fall apart eventually.

Evaisa

I get that they wanted the manpower but trying to appease to everyone is so fucking dumb, I don't judge the arxur at all here.

REDemon14

Oh. Oh no. Goodbye Kolshians Ladies and gentlemen, if you open your dictionary to the turn "Shit show", you still find the events of this chapter as an example. Humanity has a right to be angry. I don't know what I would have done in their shoes.

Matěj Habarta

Now KC will have something intersting to find out. This could rally KC. I can see KC commong after the Real feds and open a way to make diplomatic contact with SC.

Wingit98

Oh my god.... 🤦 I hate the federation so much. They've been completely absent this whole time and then show up planning to protect Aafa and wind up indirectly killing it because they can't use their brains for two seconds The Consortium is going to have such mixed signals about what happened here too. They'll probably assume a civil war broke out after humanity's extermination and the Arxur picked a side in it for some reason.

Michael Halpern

hopefully there's enough supplies in the sub terrainian cities.

thatoneguy

Gotta love the Greek Tragedy end of Aafa, a planet killed by the infighting of forces they pit against each other.

Michael Halpern

I do appreciate that the Bissems basically built tank ships, they aren't jacks of all trades, not really, yes they have all the weapons, but they aren't meant for speed or ramming, they are meant to take a hit and keep dealing damage.

Scarred Ragdoll

Finally humanity reaches the limits of appeasing every group and must now pivot to a new strategy. Will it be isolationism? Kicking out the non-agreeable government's from the collective? Or perhaps asserting dominance in politics through aggression? Either way it has to be more effective than the tactics they've been using now.

XavHD

Just like that. Fucking feds strike again

Lokyar

The second the Federation decided that the feud with the Arxur was more important than the species they came to save was the moment the SC should have turned on them. Humanity's hesitation and the rest of the SC's following their example lost a battle that was still salvageable; you'd have thought that by now they'd have learned that there's no negotiation with the Federation.

Lokyar

As for Kuemper's disgust with her "allies", she'd abdicated leadership in favour of attempting to get the leader of the Arxur couped by his own people. She should have been aware of what a retreat in that situation would have meant in their culture and not even bothered making the offer. Absent the only force of direction in the entire SC and faced with getting shot by friendly forces, its no wonder they chose to retreat. Kuemper may have been a good leader in peace, but just like Meier, she is unsuited for the realities of leading a war. Bring back Secretary General Zhao, or some new equivalent.

TheBlack2007

Thing is, siding with the Arxur wouldn’t have changed a thing except for further dividing the SC and leading it straight to war with a faction 160 species strong. Avoiding that whilst still fighting an unknown, now evidently genocidal enemy while at least having somewhat of a mutual understanding with the fed remnants was only in the SC‘s best interest. Objectively, with the Feds not backing down and hell bent on attacking the Arxur, the Collective‘s withdrawal would have been the objectively most sensible thing to do here - if it wasn’t for the Arxur considering this a sign of cowardice worthy of death - so Kaisal was obviously in no position to order such a retreat. Still sucks because we were just in the beginning of overcoming that old rift but now things are looking for a full blown war between Feds and Arxur, with the SC and their member species divided among the camps by their respective sympathies and their leader just having thrown in the towel being in serious danger of dismantling itself.

TheBlack2007

This would still have lost them the battle with the KC. It was hanging on by a thread as it was. 80,000 fed ships joining in as a third force, barreling in on the Arxur and SC would have tipped the scales. Agree with the rest though. This battle going sideways proves there can never be true peace with the Federation as long as they hold on to their beliefs.

Aerowarrier

Given that Aafa was basically built half underground, the casualties probably aren’t as bad as they seem like they’d be. Frankly, they got what was coming to them, and humanity needs to understand that the Arxur are 100% in the right with everything that just happened. Holding the Kolshian caused actions of a previous, dead government over their heads needed to stop two decades ago

TheBlack2007

Cool. Keeping the Farsul and Kolshians locked up was done so nobody would come and glass them. I still remember timid, peace-loving Tarva being out on the SC-floor demanding Farsul blood for what they have done to Venlilkind. Also, allowing the Arxur back on the galactic stage would have immediately called the fed remnants onto the plan who would have been all too eager to get revenge, possibly with a very large chunk of the SC standing by and allowing it. Don’t act like there would have been an easy solution to this predicament. There wasn’t.

TheBlack2007

After Talsk received a glancing shot and Nishtal was saved in an astonishing victory, this was somewhat to be expected. Still sad how it actually went down, especially with Kuemper more or less dropping the SC as an organization…

James

The kolshians get glassed because of the ideology they created persisting after their empire collapsed. Tragic irony.

Gumcel

Common Erin L

Gumcel

Half of them living in a couple dozen decrepit abandoned underground cities? Nah they’re fucking near extinct now bruh.

Michael Halpern

probably more industrial mobilization, and dividing the political forum part of the SC from the military alliance. The way it's currently structured, it's an effective political forum, but not so much a military alliance, an effective military alliance wouldn't had so many forces absent just because of political misgivings.

LiminalSouthpaw

The winning move here would have been to turn on the Federation, I think. Whatever this second Farsul conspiracy is has to be sheltering either with them or in dark space. Furthermore, they'll clearly never accept a real lasting peace - this is what you get for appeasing genocidal lunatics. Well...this is going to make Star Crossed 2 a lot more of a tragedy.

Michael Halpern

they evacuated who they could to former Koloshian worlds,

Hive

Who would have glassed them? The Duerten were given the Kolshians shadow caste to presumably execute them, the Venlil would not really go against humanity and humanity could have given them the Farsul elders to also execute or prosecute as a solution. Additionally, the Yotul would be perfectly happy to be the ones doing the reeducation on the founders this time around and the other ones in the SC don't strike me as the glassing planets type. The fed remnants got completely destroyed by the cyber attack. The Arxurs were threatened with the same to get them into isolation. At that point humanity was without a doubt the undisputed top dog. I don't argue that they should have let all 3 out instantly and unconditionally, but there should have been a concrete timeline/plan and not the strategy of just ignoring the problem in the hopes that it goes away.

Aerowarrier

I mean even if it’s that bad, extinction doesn’t exist in a universe where millions of babies can be born from nothing more than half a century old carcasses and some cell cultures

Wholesome Redditter

Imagine what Meier is thinking as this engagement was his master plan

DreamEnvoy

I can't remember if I mentioned it before, but Meier's and Onso's plans were in conflict with each other. And here is the result of them both succeeding; infighting taking resources away from a war they are supposed to be allied against. Loxsel can stfu with his bloodlust-fueled excitement. Kaisal has every right to be pissed. And the rule of three plays out as expected. If Kuemper follows through on her resignation, I wonder what direction the UN would take after.

John

You can’t reason with extremists, the UN should have learned that by now. The federation remnant must be either safely contained or cut down 1 by 1 until none of their original governments remain. Shoulda been quarantined harder than the Arxur if you ask me.

Wholesome Redditter

The Arxur were fed up being screwed over by the UN and if Kaisal retreated that loss of face could create a power vacuum that brings back the dominion. The Fed rements who decided to help despite everything only to realize to save Aafa they have to work together with their sworn enemy. And Humanity who’s actively trying to keep the SC together and on top off of that try ing to avoid a second war with 180 species while still dealing with unknown invaders right in Aafa door step. I do believe this is the breaking point of Humanity and hell once they found out about the KC there is a good possibility they’ll jump ship.

Wholesome Redditter

But there’s literally an active threat right there. If they did back the Arxur the outcome will be the same but with the feds being hostile. Even it means going to war with the rest of the fed next year they still shouldn’t start anything.

Wholesome Redditter

I’d just realized the only reason the UN won Aafa was because the dominion and federation started infighting each other. Funny how the same happened again.

TheBlack2007

Loxsel‘s ramblings honestly make me think the Feds actually had a point with the diagnosis of Predator Disease, despite its unscientific characterization and going way overboard by using it as a tool for oppression.

PhycoKrusk

The only species in the Coalition that would _not_ have glassed them were Humanity, the Venlil (because of Humanity), the Zurulians (on principle), and the Yotul (because of Humanity and on principle). Besides, you're neglecting an important fact in all of them: Ignoring problems and hoping they go away is how the UN handles things; I won't go into examples here (not the place), but hoping things just resolve themselves and not developing a procedure to follow if they don't is about what I expect from the UN.

Pineapplepilot

"Well, I guess RACISM wins 😒" It's funny to me that the feds literally only showed up for aafa, but then were the sole reason it died. Common federation L, tragically predictable outcome. Thank you SP, for this mornings reading (NOT SARCASTIC)

Pineapplepilot

I have to specify because communication over text is hard

TheBlack2007

Don’t think it would have been a winning move. It might have been just enough to save Aafa but would have tumbled the SC into another war against a faction outnumbering it by far. The fed remnants have proven they need to be dealt with eventually, but not while the SC is still fighting another war against another genocidal power.

TheBlack2007

Cultural Extinction is still a thing though. Now, that being good or bad in case of the Kolshians is up to the reader to decide I guess.

Pineapplepilot

"Feds" and "brains" don't belong in the same sentence. Been established through roughly 200 chapters of this kinda nonsense for a few years now lol.

Pineapplepilot

He probably had a really normal neurodivergent diagnosis, then the feds 100% messed up his brain tho, electroshock and excessive random drug use does that...

Michael Halpern

they need the SC to JUST be a political Forum, form a new alliance on top of it for military interests. like NATO.

PhycoKrusk

We all knew the collapse of the Sapient Coalition was only a matter of time. I'm not sure any of us expected it to be so dramatic. The fate of Aafa can be squarely laid at the feet of the Remnant, however. It was going to be a close battle, yes, but it was under control, and the Coalition could have won. The Remnant objectively caused that to fail. They won't hear such arguments, but at least the Coalition that actually contributed forces can say, "We would've had it." I don't know what comes next. The Coalition cannot continue to exist as it is. Additionally, this is good news for the Consortium, because in the event that recorded footage comes back, they'll see a bunch of new, clearly non-Federation designed ships (and the Arxur) defending Aafa, and then out of left field comes a bunch of classic Federation designs that start attacking everybody. Now, nobody knows what anybody is doing.

TheBlack2007

I mean, I read it sarcastically despite my personal opinion of it being the best chapter in a while. Despite knowing something was off the outcome still kinda surprised me, too especially the SC being openly divided and in turmoil with the humans seemingly on the verge of pulling out

Abby

There's a poetry to the end of Aafa being the result of circumstances they ultimately were the ones to orchestrate.

Pineapplepilot

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! MY MISCOMMUNICATION CURSE STRIKES AGAIN!!!! I MEANT I GENUINELY ENJOYED THE READ, NOT THAT IT WAS PREDICTABLE AAAAAAAUUUGH

DDDragoni

Fucking brutal. Everyone's plans to help coming together into a complete clusterfuck

Kevo

Yeah I wouldn’t help the squids either, I think pulling out was good, feel bad for the crocs tho, but they shoulda just pulled out first jeez

Byron Ritchie

Well it may not have been how I imagined it but I knew the fed remnants would fuck things up

Alekss Žukovskis

if i was Kuemper would have ordered the Arxur to retreat immediately when Yulpa showed animosity, then put that as a temporary negotiation to the dimwits as "better and more motivated reinforcements have arrived" then put them at the center of action, and offered to "buy" or "auctioned" the whole Aafa's system to whoever dies more. Perhaps i would tell them that the numbers here are insurmountably greater, which means some are headed for their planets as well, for extra motivation. "what are 50 inhabitable planets for the Federations Mecca?", "if you make a good effort and sign a few treaties, perhaps we can whittle it down to 10". "Get to the lines Dogs!! Well support you from behind". Yeah, i know i wouldn't make a great politician, but i have the benefit of knowing that the chapter started on a very positive note.

Alekss Žukovskis

Yeah, the Aafa being in UNs oversight and Arxur being UNs allies. does mean that those that have intruded and started demolishing defenses the guilty party here. the humans should aggressively push for the arrest of the Yulpa for their small brain size, at least in order to preserve their image in the old-Federation space. Teach them a lessor for once.

Alekss Žukovskis

there's not really. the lesson is: they got the bitter end after losing their strings.

Alekss Žukovskis

What was the disruptor net fucking doing? Reading a fed magazine!?? why didnt the blinks show up sooner, and why werent the UN prepared? is that entirely gonna fall on Meier?

Kevo

lol no, just not worth fighting a battle like that as it happened

Michael Halpern

SC as a military bloc doesn't work, but it is perfectly adequate as a political forum.

Gavin Pierce

I think another, deadlier, wider scale, complete and total blackout cyber attack on every fed remnant is long overdue. This time send all 150 of them to the Stone Age. Then exterminate the planet for good measure

Gavin Pierce

Again the Yulpa, I most certainly do. In the words of Johnny Rico, KILL EM ALL

Wesley Rigg

When I first started reading NoP1 I never thought I would say this, but the greys are right. War is inevitable. Once the KC is no longer a problem, or potentially even a new ally, it's time to stop playing Neville Chamberlain and get this party started while the incompetent feds are still incompetent feds. Just because it seems that they haven't learned much doesn't mean that can't start.

Byron Ritchie

@kevo I mean I guess and I will admit I was being a bit too serious but still I feel like letting a genocide happen when you can feasibly stop it is akin to participating in it, at least in the victim’s perspective it is accurate to UN lore though

pogman

My favorite chapter, definitely the darkest and most bleak one, here's hoping the fallout is gonna be painful and even more impactful.

Ezekiah Kane

I wonder how she even managed to become sec-gen in the first place...

nan paul stefan

Better idea cage the planet and keep them in the stone age

Kevo

The moment the feds attacked it doomed Aafa, there was no winning with just SC forces

Ezekiah Kane

Still only a fraction of the total population.

Ezekiah Kane

Couldn't have hoped for a better twist and I'm glad Kuemper resigns, the decisions she made so far(apart from resigning) were a bit braindead...

DemonVee

This was a fantastic chapter, tragic as hell and full of irony. As other's have mentioned, in part this is a result of Human and Yotul meddling. Humanity trying to rally the Feds, Yotul trying to rally the Arxur. The break down here is a result of division at the very core of the SC, we'll have to see if both recognize it. Another part is the whole SC itself, failing to commit to the ideals they have pledged themselves to. If the whole SC had cared about a species not getting genocide and pledge proper defences here, they wouldn't even need anyone else's help. Another bit of irony is on Aafa itself, they've fostered an ideology of hatred for a thousand years, and that hatred ended up bring their homeworld to ruin in the end due to the followers of that ideology. I doubt the losses are total, they had large underground cities who were hidden during the attack on Aafa, so the KC probably wouldn't have been able to see them either. Millions to Billions have likely sheltered there, but the loses would be greater than that, and all simply foolish civilians. Despite the SC's internal failings, the blame can't be placed anywhere else but the Fed Remnants. They would be hypocrites if they say anything else, so it's likely that's what they'll do. Even the bloody Arxur managed to put their hatred behind them enough to help Aafa, despite their grievances with the SC. These idiots watched the world they came here to save burn, while firing munitions somewhere else. ------------- I wonder what the fallout will be: - The Arxur used Bissem ships as living shields, I can't imagine that this isn't going to cost them their alliance. - The same problem might be with the Yotul. - With Erin leaving her post, they're going to pick a war time leader, which is worrying... Because Zhao is likely too old for the role, so that puts Jones right into the throne. This might make relations with the Bissem worse, but I was surprised to read Tassi's words, who as been critical of Humanity for the past few chapters say: "I hoped the powerful, peacemaking humanity who’d shown up at Nishtal, emboldened by the support and diversity of their allies, would find their way back into this forum’s helm." Maybe it will lead to some cooperation between the two after all, more on equal grounds. - On the KC side... I honestly thing Charise and Quana might try to kill themselves after what they've done, in their eyes now, for nothing. - I worried that the Jaslip fighters might be controlled by the underscales, and all this was just a way for them to remove the leadership and apply more even draconian measures to win the war and control the populations, Charise and Quana ending up their pawns. - Though this victory might give them hope of winning. One question is, how will they respond? They have achieved data from the ark colonists, which is bound to show Fed designed ships on the Remnant side fighting the Arxur, while the unknown vessels hold back and try to defend. If the drones managed to capture communications between the three groups, they had to figure out that they weren't fighting the Feds, maybe they have analyse the new contacts, but it's more likely they have kept themselves deaf. - Another question on the KC side, who are they attacking next? The Duerten, or the Feds? It would be beautiful irony if the Feds got the same treatment as they just gave out, but... The Feds have no birds SP can be cruel against. If it was the Feds, would Humanity even bother helping them at this point? --------------- Out of the 4 SC heads, only the Zurulians have proven to be unrelenting chads, the rest have done their part to stoke up division. - Humanity with their appeasement of ideological enemies. - Yotul with underhanded meddling, stoking up fires where they shouldn't burn - Venlil with their hatred, enabling all the other SC (and even Shield) members to choose "when" they want to be moral. If the SC is to survive, each have to come to terms with their faults. And maybe the Zurulians will play a part in that considering their alliance with the Bissem, or maybe they'll feel guilt over not mediating before it got to this point. I just hope the blame game doesn't start, ripping the organization apart completely. ------------------ Humanities rage is understandable here. 25 years of trying to make the Galaxy better, while even their allies betrayed them by still being set in the same ways. A lot of the blame can be tossed at the UN for appeasing hostile forces, but I think the community's judgement is too harsh in many regards. What where they meant to do, conqueror the entire Federation, coerce their allies to comply by force? Forgetting that Humanity didn't have enough forces or resources to subjugate the entire god damn Federation after the battle of Aafa, or that their allies were already tired of the war considering the what we saw with the Venlil (their biggest supporters) They would have lost their allies trying to apply more force, proving themselves as the "conquering predators" and trying to maintain order in such a circumstances would have just turned them into the Federation. What about Aafa, Talsk or Wriss? Humanity has tried to advocate an end to their imprisonment, but any other scenario would have ended up with either all three's extinction, or once again a solo war against their allies and what was left of the Federation. It wasn't reasonable to expect Humanity to want endless war, but the sad thing is that the other two weren't unreasonable either. Why should we expect the Venlil to just forgive their genociders. Or the Yotul to want to just sit back as their oppressors build back strength. This happened because they acted like people, instead of paragons or saints.

Ezekiah Kane

Doesn't really matter if they're hit with antimatter, it doesn't care. It just annihilates.

Michael Halpern

they are bunker cities essentially, unless the bombs are specifically designed to penetrate before going boom, (which given that Ark 3 wouldn't have known about them they probably aren't) they should be fine, its still E=MC² just a 100% efficient E=MC²

Wesley Rigg

Loxel Abridged 4: “Provoking predators?” Loxsel cackled. “I’m all for it.” General Naltor seemed to have forgotten that he’d told the Sivkit to stay quiet. “The Arxur are your allies!” “Yes and no. Things are finally getting interesting! Prey against a fierce beast; a clash that will confuse all the predators. The forever-walkers are weak and don’t stand up for themselves. Their lack of aggression is endlessly disappointing, though Nishtal showed a hint of the warlike nature they used to have! But they’re still tame. The Arxur, though—the Arxur won’t stand for such insults!” “Yes, I doubt they’ll think of anything but retaliation,” Zalk scoffed. “But the Arxur are outnumbered two to one. Even with drones, that’s a huge disadvantage.” “Until the prey get scared and scatter, because they can’t understand the cunning of the carcass-cravers! Except for the doormat humans who’d rather negotiate than show any predator instincts, of course. This battle will only bring misery to the troublemaking cattle. The Malti’s guts will be turned to mush, with real casualties! They’ll regret it!” “You sound like you want them to get beaten by the Arxur.” “It’s not about that; I’m criticizing you for even suggesting it, you fool! Can’t an entertainer be excited by the prospect of real casualties? They’re almost here, I tell you! Almost here!"

John

I do hope the SC learns from this and starts taking more decisive action against the federation remnant.

Ezekiah Kane

I'm fairly certain that caato was evacced before the battle.

Cartoon dinosaur

SP how many Kolshians are still alive? And what colony world were they transferred? (this important info I need for my fic I'm eventually going to start)

Space Paladin

There were billions that did make it off world but similar to Esquo, some refused to leave!

DemonVee

Heh, sorry, it has thoughts regarding this entire series, so it was quite a bit 😅

Thrownawaz

Silence is compliance, Secretary General. You refused to stand up to the Yulpa, this is your fault.

Alekss Žukovskis

I wish you would draw out the nuking scene. (except take a break if you have burnout, we only love your mind if its intact). name a few cities. Poetrize a zigzag that a missile makes on its way to combustion. show a few ongoing reporters going out with tears in their soulless eyes. there had to be a glimmer of hope yet a small hurting for making the mistake of the millennium. This has to be gutwrenching, but the audience has to empathize. Im quite invested. good work SP!

XavHD

Damn, calm down Satan :D

Schnitzelsemmel

Yeah I’m with Kaisal on this one… also I guess the „Glass Aafa crowd got what they wanted

Schnitzelsemmel

Who did win? The Arxur or the Feds? Are we going to get an Arxur POV too? Maybe as an Patreon Exclusive like the Cradle Story from Kaisals POV.

Dookus Maximus

In the grim dark future of the... *checks notes* ... 22nd century, there is only shortsightedness and bigotry.

Soheils

@TheBlack2007 Idk man, I fully get him. You can be both sad about an event and see artistic beauty. We have so many words describing the same phenomenon. A lot of commenters are seeing the “poetic irony” in the fall of Aafa, for example. If you were raised in a culture with a big tradition of epic poetry this is very easy to sympathize with.

Soheils

Or maybe I have predator disease too. My brain also casts a lot of wars in these classical epic terms, regardless of my moral feelings about things and outcomes

EliasArt2Life

While I don’t agree with the decision to resign (I hope Meier can talk her out of that), I DO agree with what Kuemper said. I also agree with part of what Kaisal said; the rest of the SC IS making all the decisions for humanity. Every time they hear something that they don’t want to hear, every time they’re asked to be mature or put aside their feelings, the SC ties humanity’s hands through ultimatums and refusals. The Arxur aren’t much better, though; despite insulting humanity over letting others dictate their actions, that’s exactly what Kaisal tried to do, with his own threats and ultimatums. Same goes for the Federation Remnamts. Everyone is using humanity’s desire for friendship and peace against them, without taking the time to think about what that even means. This fight is a fight between the Arxur, the Federation Remnants, and the former members of the Federation who are in the SC. Humanity’s been dragged along and almost forcibly implicated in it. Can’t blame Kuemper for deciding she’s had enough; I’ve had enough too. At the very least, this may be the catalyst that causes humanity to leave the SC. After all those years of trying to be understanding of all the other species’ perspectives, and accommodating them for what they’ve gone through, the other species just don’t seem to be doing that. They’re all too focused on themselves. Also, this is going to be VERY confusing for the Consortium; they succeed, but only because their foes started fighting amongst themselves. Oh, and Aafa was already in ruins, and seems to have been falling apart for decades. (Maybe they’ll get some shots of a UN emblem, and REALLY freak out).

EliasArt2Life

Yeah, because starting a war with over 100 species while also fighting a war with a technologically equivalent power with an unknown strength is a GREAT idea. Especially when the rest of the SC would probably disavow those actions and refuse to fight on humanity’s side agains the Federation Remnants. That sounds like a quick way to guarantee extinction. Remember; the SC DOESN’T KNOW that this decapitation strike is half of the Consortium’s power. For all they know, this could be 5% of their power, and old, outdated ships.

DreamEnvoy

@Sohelis From a literary perspective, I too would side with Loxsel in that conflict brings a level of excitement that is very much welcomed. But in an actual war, I would reprimand someone like Loxsel for opening his mouth for anything but eating. Actually, let's punish him for eating as well. He's a glutton.

EliasArt2Life

FOR EVERYONE SAYING THAT HUMANITY SHOULD HAVE SIDED AGAINST THE FEDERATION REMNANTS: Please remember that the Remnants insomuch threatened war if the humans, or members of the SC, interfered. As many people have pointed out, the Remnants are extremists who can’t be reasoned with. That means that they WILL follow through with that threat. During the current war. Against an unknown foe with unknown ships of roughly equivalent power. Sure, WE know that this decapitation strike is ~50% if the Consortium’s power, but humanity and the SC DON’T. To have attacked the Remnants would have been committing to an additional multi-front war with over 100 species. And the rest of the SC hate the Arxur, and probably wouldn’t help humanity much in that war. Basically, the only result of pushing back against the Remnants would be a war that would likely finish off humanity. YES, humanity had the right and moral prerogative to retaliate against the Remnants, but rights and moral prerogatives don’t mean much against a multi-front war of extinction. Granted, the Arxur ALSO hinted at war if humanity DIDN’T aid them, but they aren’t as much of a threat as the Remnants; they’re ONE extra front, not 100+ fronts. Kuemper was stuck between a rock and a hard place there.

John

Then let it be war, ain’t no way I’m letting those extremists survive if I’m in Kuempers position.

Sci-fi reader

Meaning death the xenos! Kill them all. Let the Emperor sort them out! Make Sol great again! Hail Khorne! I need to get on decaf. 😄 Seriously. What did Kuemper expect? Expect bigoted and mostly brainless Fed remnants to get along with the Arxur? They are crazy. Is the UN in full WW2 style wartime economy yet? I would expect them to be at least Cold War level of militarization since the end of the last war. Almost being exterminated would light a spark under even the most peaceful rational human. Never again.

Marin Longoria

I don't blame you, I've also been itching for a while now after several SC decisions, but considering what you say, it's to be expected that in the twenty-odd years after the war of extinction There is still that unpleasant ideology and cattle mentality of the federation, of the hatred they generated and then gained towards itself, everything feels frustrating, it is real, almost dystopian. ¡I love it.!

Marin Longoria

I think it would have been interesting if SC would have stepped aside and the remnants of the federation would have realized their stupidity and been forced to ask for help from the SC, Please excuse me if I have spelling or grammar mistakes, this is not my native language.

Some Lvm

Wow! I commented trying to recruit the Feddies was a bad idea, but honestly I half believed SP would prove me wrong and write a "kumbaya" outcome to it... As usual - great subversion of expectations! I never expected such marvelous clusterfuck! Also @EliasArt2Life - you called it - rule of 3! 20 years late, but Aafa got its comeuppance, and ironically thanks to their own worshipers rather than any enemy! And of course, good riddance to Kuemper. She was a lousy SecGen to begin with, probably worse the Meir. If Zhao was here, he would have actually saved Aafa. Either he would have kept Meir from inviting the Feds in the first place, or if he was just in that war room at that moment he would have threatened them in to running away, gunning down a few Yulpa ships to make a point that the SC stands by its allies. No doubt seeing the entire fleet against them would have sent the Feddies running, and ultimately would have saved both their lives and those of the Kolshians still on Aafa. Sometimes, divisive and precise violence is the answer, and killing a few bad people can save a lot of innocent ones! (Not that I consider anyone still sticking to Federation beliefs innocent) A belief anything can be talked out, and anyone can be a friend makes for an awful leader, blind to reality.

Some Lvm

The new way Patreon loads replies on PC sucks! So I didn't see your post before writing one of my own. I give you credit for predicting a loss at Aafa, but I disagree with your position: The remnants sent manned ships in to the middle of a drone war. This means they have stuck to their Federation programming, and haven't made any technological advances. They may be many, but in terms of millitery, they are a much smaller threat than the Arxur. Also, if they did go to war against humanity, the Arxur would not be the only one's standing by our side: Keep in mind the Yotul, the biggest military powerhouse in the Orion arm, also hate the Feds with a passion. No doubt they would gladly join in on humanity's side, and they have no issue working with the Arxur. The Skalgans would likely join as well, part out of loyalty to humanity, and part to repay what the Federation had done to them, which was one of the worst "conversions" of all species, as far as we know, only the crippling of the Sivkits comes close. The Krakotle may have a bone to pick as well, not to mention that every species that didn't show up to defend the Kolshians would likely give a hand fighting their lackeys. Finally, this would really still be a two front war, as the Feds would fight as one, incapable of separate, varying tactics. The fact they made no changes when rebuilding their fleets is a proof of that!

Some Lvm

I may be repeating my self here, but I have to disagree once again: This situation is entirely Kuemper's fault, and it is very good that she resigned. Humanity does not need to leave the SC. It needs to start throwing its weight around. This is politics, not some children's book. You don't make friends by being nice to everyone. You only get used if you allow people to use you. Sure, kissing ass and compromising may be the right thing to do in certain very specific situations, but clearly neither Meir, nor Kuemper know how to do things any other way. This situations sounds to me like it was well over a decade in the making, again - thanks to faulty UN leadership. But really, all the SC needs to get back on track is some tough love. Like the previous war, this one needs a leader who is both a skilled politician but also a seasoned veteran. A spiritual successor to Zhao. Start saying no to some folks, and F.U. to those who don't take no for an answer. And shoot a few fools if they leave you no other choice. By the way - the species that didn't show: aren't they violating some agreements they signed when they joined the SC, which should make them subject to sanctions?

EliasArt2Life

@John Easy to say when you aren’t the one responsible for TRILLIONS of human lives. @Some Lvm Nope. That’s a fallacy. Just because they’ve kept to their Federation programming DOESN’T mean that they’ve had no technological advancements. Before, the Kolshians were holding their tech back so that: A) the forever war would continue. B) they could maintain a secret supremacy with their Shadow Fleet. Without the Kolshians holding them back on that, and with humanity’s cyber attack revealing their vulnerabilities against an enemy that wouldn’t aim for an eternal stalemate, it makes sense that they’d being in to advance their technology. Besides, just because they kept MOST of their Federation programming doesn’t mean that they kept ALL of it. Case in point, they’re totally willing to fight the Arxur with no signs of fear. In NOP1, only the Shadow Caste and humans showed that capability. I will concede that we would have some allies, but no where near enough to change the fact we’d be fighting an additional 100+ species. And yes, they use one set of tactics, and would attack as one, but that’s not what I mean by a multi-front war; it’s the area of space they control. The Consortium can only launch an attack from one of their planets, mostly just the Krev’s since its closest. The Remnants can launch attacks from DOZENS of different angles, which means that we would have to keep defenses on the boarders of EACH of those. The reason why a multi-front war is bad is because you have to divide your resources and attention between all the fronts (areas where your boarders and your enemy’s boarders connect/are fighting), rather than being able to consolidate all your resources in one area. Basically, unless the Remnants are attacking from one location, rather than multiple, it would be a multi-front war.

EliasArt2Life

@Some Lvm I’d say that the Kolshians for their comeuppance when the Duerten took all the Kolshian Government and Shadow Caste. And over the course of 20 years of chaos and societal collapse. Name the guilty party who’s paying the price and name their crime. The ones who were directly responsible are long dead. Also, can I just ask what your fundamental problem with Meier and Kuemper’s approach is? And I don’t want you to give examples of how they failed, because you didn’t just say that; you also said that Zhao would have done it right. Despite the fact that we have no real knowledge of how that would have played out. In fact, if Zhao WAS there, Space Paladin would have probably STILL found a way to make him fail. So, this signals to me that there’s some fundamental something in your world view that makes you so sure that Meier and Kuemper’s diplomatic approach will never work, but Zhao’s more aggressive and warlike style would. It’s this world view of yours that I want to understand, so that’s what I want to hear about, not the characters or their actions. Could you help me understand?

AnAbsoluteVillain

"You’re siding with preyfolk that hate you and dream of a day they can wipe you from existence." And there it is. Kaisal for Secretary General!

Wholesome Redditter

Ok 2 things 1. Oh my gosh, the idea of Jones becoming the next Secretary General is be amazing. 2. Now the KC believes they just decapitated the federation, it make since for them to ‘savage’ relics on Earth.

John

Kaisal for secretary general!

Rohn Carver

best solution here is for a contingent of the farsul population to be moved to a safe world, for all to round on and protect the krakotal homeworld, and then let the fleets destroy the kolshian and farsul homeworlds and any settlements they have still left in their home systems. this will quell the retribution of many. plae the farsul in "Protective extinction status" and the kolshians can just get fucked because they are the cause of it all and do not deserve even the smallest amount of sympathy.

Wholesome Redditter

Problem is that Kuemper is German (last name origins are from Germany), and the Germans knows a thing or two about fighting a two front war.

Wholesome Redditter

Federation showed up as allies, and once past immediately turn on the Arxurs.

AnAbsoluteVillain

The first time Aliens met humanity they tried to genocide us. Meier and Kuemper treat aliens like babies. "If you eat your veggies you too can have galactic peace." Zhao treats them like people. Dangerous blood thirsty killers that want all of humanity dead. (Which they do) The Yotul understand this, immediately beginning spying operations on humanity after the war.

Wholesome Redditter

Half the fandom supports genocide the other half supports being genocide. There is no winning

Wesley Rigg

She just said that she intends on resigning. Even if she backpedals on that, Germans specifically know a thing or two about losing a two front war. We need an American or Brit in charge of we wanna win.

Wholesome Redditter

Wait, why is Kuemper getting all the blame, the only reason the Fed remains showed up was because of Meier.

TheBlack2007

True. Question is whether or not the other members would allow that division of interests to happen and pledge unconditional and full military support to each other as well as any non-member worlds under SC-protection (Talsk, Wriss, whatever remains of Aafa). NATO works on the base of a believable deterrent. Basicaly: "Cross this clearly defined line and the combined wrath of 34 nations possibly including their doomsday weapons comes crushing down on you!" Considering just how much self-serving squabbling we have heard from multiple SC-members and how some others like the Bissem have become so disillusioned with it they already started looking towards forming or joining other alliances I honestly have my doubts. But even if the SC managed to navigate this split, I don't think humanity would still be willing to take over political leadership. When even Erin Kuemper is done with the Sapient Coalition, things are honestly beyond salvage on that end. Maybe it's for the best to hand over the scepter to the Zurulians or maybe the Mazics as mediating powers while the UN focuses on military leadership.

Evaisa

I am not saying they should've sided with the arxur, what I am saying is that getting the remnants in on the action was a stupid decision when humanity knew they would not follow orders ever.

TheBlack2007

People in the plenary didn't blame her. Hell, they still looked up to her for leadership as the UN's entire strategy lied in tatters. She's just done. Done with all the infighting that just cost Billions of innocent lives. Lives the UN had to keep in squalor as the only way to keep their own Allies from glassing them out of petty revenge. Done with all the indiciveness that drove the same species which previously pledged their entire navies to the defense of Nishtal into only sending a token force or some not even partaking at all when it came to Aafa. Done with all the political backstabbing and mutual distrust the SC allowed to fester within its own ranks. And done with having both the old "Predator" as well as "Leaf Licker"-stigma thrown at us literally the moment we quit appeasing everyone because we were the only ones remembering the greater goal.

TheBlack2007

He did have a point there, but Kaisal conveniently ignores the fact that much of that hatred stemmed from his species' actions throughout the centuries. An atrocity unimaginable in scale and something the Arxur could never even hope to make right even if they felt genuine remorse over it. He also ignored the fact the UN actually approached him to negotiate, not so subtlely hinting at the fact they actually consider the former Supremacist Cannibal Crocodilians the more reasonable faction among the two. I also don't think the UN has forgotten about the extermination fleet either and how the Fed Remnants are in many ways even more radical than the legacy Federation due to being led by species even the Kolshians considered too militant in their beliefs to utilize in any larger capacity.

TheBlack2007

@Elias The fleet was spearheaded by Yulpa and Malti. Both species believe themselves to be protectors of the more timid prey folk. Looking back on the Human Sacrifice miniseries the Yulpa actively hunt down predators and have a very controlled fear response even when facing predators directly and on even terms. Doesn't mean the entire Federation would be like that now. In fact, they still adhere to pretty much all of the Federation's original principles. So you can still expect the average Fed to quiver in fear at the mere sight of a human or even Bissem, let alone an Arxur. Especially since the latter are no longer malnourished husks.

Mr Mopp

Woah, Kuemper! You had ONE bad incident during this campaign, don’t quit now! You were doing fine! Hopefully Elias can talk sense into her.

Some Lvm

@Elias: I can't argue with what SP might or might not do. As the author, he completely controls the NoP universe, and can write things that are realistic and not realistic, and I hope you understand I am not referring to sci-fi tech here. I do believe that realistically, Zhao would have done a better job. He isn't just more aggressive. He has shown multiple times he understands how things work, and how to handle other nations to get the best result. Remember - he started out saying what the people wanted to hear - "100 alien lives to save one human life", yet he proceeded to create the alliance with Isif's rebellion, which was crucial in the final battle, he properly used Jonse's intel to get things done, he approved a plan that imprisoned the Farsul rather than exterminating them, and yes - he even figured out a way to placate the Duerten without genociding all the Kolshians. He built the SC, and got them to sign on not to discriminate sapiens based on their diet. Something the SC clearly reneged on under Kuemper! All Meir and Kuemper have done, at least "on screen", is try to placate everyone. Every single alien they met, no matter how wrong or immoral! I mean - apologizing to the Yulpa, of all people? Considering reparations to a society that still sacrifices predators, 20 years after the war??? So my problem with Meir and Kuemper is two fold: 1. They don't seem to understand you can't please everyone. 2. They are willing to compromise on their morals, and act against the interest of the people they represent to make friends with societies that should not be befriended. Just remember order 56.

Some Lvm

@Elias: to answer your question: "Name the guilty party who’s paying the price and name their crime. " If I remember correctly, you once argued that the Arxur should not be let out until every last individual who tasted sapient flesh has died. (If I am confusing you with another user, I apologize) I apply that logic to the Kolshians - any Kolshian that took part in the Federation is fair game for the antimatter bombs. The reason Kolshian society degraded over these years is because even after realizing what the shadow caste has done to them, most of them clung to the Federation way of life. Even though the UN gave them the opportunity to get off the planet (as described in "Star crossed"), only a few took it. I suspect, the one's that remained on Aafa with the drone fleet bearing down on it, were the most hard core Fed loyalists among the Kolshians, who did not want SC help. The Arxur changed their society without being beaten by an outside force. The Krakotle changed their society after being beaten by an outside force. The rest of the SC changed as soon as they found out the Federation was a lie. But the Kolshians and the Farsul? They never changed even after being beaten and imprisoned!

Some Lvm

@Elias: I believe you are missing a few facts: 1. The Godjids fought the Arxur quite well under Federation programming, Sovlin even became a hero after repelling an Arxur attack. The Krakotle did fairly well too. It was a forever war exactly because the Kolshians let the rest of the Federation have some success against Arxur raids. 2. You are thinking in terms of borders on land. Space does not work like that. Its huge and 3 dimensional. It does not matter where they launch from, it only matters where they are going. The SC hasn't even tried to defend against the KC at the point of origin or the border of the SC space, they did it at the fleet's destination. And they did it very well, until their infighting got in the way. You can't really have borders in space the way you have on a planet, so any realistic defense would still have to focus around inhabited planets, not some imaginary line in the middle of interstellar space. Granted, SP kind of smudges the line between FTL and non FTL travel to make whole solar systems look like small neighborhoods, even though in reality it would take years to traverse them on sub-light. But the rest of NoP space is still huge, which is why KC builds shells around planets, not some weir border in the middle of nowhere. 3. The Kolshians didn't suppress innovation through external means. They instead taught those societies to limit themselves. The reason Yotul had made so much advancement since throwing off the Federation yoke was because they never took in those teachings. With the Skalgans, it took a generation (an umodded one!) to start progressing. And the rest of the SC is still behind. Again - the simple fact the Feds had no drones, when even the shadow caste had drones 20 years ago, shows they have not caught up, because they don't know how.

Neu5Ac

Kaisal seeing an unscrewed pooch: "not today." Seriously though, he was probably put in a pinch, having to choose between ruining his political career (a culture based on power projection doesn't end in a single generation, after all) or his inroads with the SC. The latter might not even be an option if his potential replacements are pro-Dominionists, as they would ruin any SC favor anyway. Either way, they've badly hurt their relationship with the Bissems, as they've just proven themselves unreliable and exploitive allies. It has occurred to me that humanity is the only species that shows restraint. The Venlil have become aggressive firebrands, the Yotul have become conniving bastards, everyone else has mostly remained their panicky, petty selves, and even the Krev can't contain their fawning over sapient beings they perceive as cute. Humans alone seem to be able to suppress their impulses and stick to a complex moral framework. It makes me wonder why we're different like that, and more importantly, what would happen if we just let go and went full monke on the galaxy, so to speak? NoP 1 implied one of humanity's most unique traits was the ability to find creative ways to win fights, so how many weapon designs using common things (like gravity manipulation/antigravity, FTL, or the ubiquitousness of translator implants) were rejected for being too inhumane? Not to mention, I'm pretty sure the company that brought Elias Meier back is Earth based, so what happens when the UN seizes the company? They could use their tech to mass produce fleets and armies of war drones with the tactical and strategic cunning of our best commanders and soldiers, the reaction speeds of computers, and a moral free pass to do as they please. And who will talk down this monstrous form of human civilization when the dust finally clears?

EliasArt2Life

@TheBlack2007 I’ll give you the point on the Yulpa, although I’ll point out that we saw their “Predator Hunters” which were even more conditioned than typical Exterminators, who already had well reduced fear responses. I don’t believe we’ve ever seen how the Yulpa MILITARY fight. But I still feel that the average Remnant member would have MUCH LESS of a fear response than before. Don’t forget, the Kolshians had such strict control BECAUSE people were loosing their fear of predators. Maronis pretty much stated that the whole point of the war was to keep all these species that weren’t buying the “Predator bad” narrative as much in check. @Some Lvm 1) Gojids killed more of their own by trampling them than human soldiers killed them. Their victory over the Arxur was repelling a small raiding fleet in their home system. “Good at fighting and controlling their fear” for the old Federation is NOT necessarily the same as OUR “good at fighting and controlling their fear”. 2) I’m sorry, but your entire argument here made little sense. Space being 3D doesn’t make boarders less of a thing, it just means that your boarders are 3D too. Which ironically makes them MORE important. Okay. Let me give you an example. Imagine that SC space is a cube. The KC is a small cube that shares one corner with the SC cube. The Remnants are an equally sized cube that shares a while face with the SC cube. If the KC wants to attack the SC, they need to send out ships from their cube. But warp moves at a constant speed in this universe, there’s technology that can disrupt warp, AND spy tech allows me tutors to know of fleet movements early (not individual ships and stealth ships, sure, but full fleets can be found. That’s how humanity tracked the Extermination Fleet in NOP1). In other words, if you want to attack without using the existing connection (corner to corner), you’ll have to travel outside of your cube, where the enemy can intercept and ambush you since you don’t control that space. It’s a disadvantage. Sure, you COULD extend your influence to cover that area, but that’s literally just extending your boarders. The Remnants, on the other hand, can amass fleets ANYWHERE in their cube, and attack any point on the SC cube that touches their cube. This gives them MANY more avenues from which to attack us. Since travel is not instantaneous, the SC would need to keep fleets at the ready for groups of entry points. Basically, you don’t need to defend every planet; just every planet that they can reach before you catch up to them and take them out or use their slowdown via FTL inhibitors to beat them to their destination. The KC can only target a few planets, the Remnants can target a ton. 3) The SC species have made leaps and bounds in terms of space battle tech. The Shield built an GIGANTIC KILOSTRUCTURE LEVEL ship for their meetings. Are you really claiming that the Remnants haven’t done the same? The Yotul have pushed forwards so far because they felt an intense need to get an edge on everyone, so no one could ever control them again. The Remnants were left defenseless and were put under a massive cyber attack by humanity. They’d probably focus on making sure that doesn’t happen again.

Guardian

Everyone's discussed the pressing issues this installments offers at length, but there's one thing that tugs at my soul: imagine how Meier will take this; "not well" is likely to be understatement of the century. Ffuucckk, man, all these feels! I'm not sure I'm in the right headspace for all this!

Aured

Yikes! That was an impossible situation... This does not bode well.

EliasArt2Life

@Some Lvm Calling this situation Kuemper’s fault is ridiculous. It’s like calling the billion that died on Earth due to the Extermination Fleet “totally Meier’s fault”; sure he was in charge, but his plan was sound and shouldn’t have failed, it was Kalsim’s character (something no one could have changed or predicted) that caused the massacre. Meier was the one that appealed for Remnant aid, when he was just sent for Shield aid. The Remnants came offering help. It’s reasonable to assume that the group of people who see the people you’re protecting as close allies will choose to put aside old grievances long enough to save their allies, rather than spend resources and manpower destroying automata created by an old enemy. When the fight began breaking out, Kuemper reached out to BOTH sides, trying to come to some compromise, until they each cut off communication with an ultimatum. You think that she should have put her foot down, and told the Yulpa that they will not attack the Arxur? Yeah, then they just do it anyway. Then what? Kuemper fires on the Remnants? Starts a war with the Remnants while in the middle of another war? You think that’s winnable, let alone winnable without entire planets getting glassed? This is getting to be just like when the Extermination Fleet was barreling down towards Earth; everyone in the comments was convinced that humanity could take on and defeat a fleet of 40+ species. Boy, was that a surprise for everyone when humanity needed to be bailed out, as still lost over a billion. You keep on talking about needing to push people around and say “no”, but you also forget that these species have previously responded to that kind of stuff by doubling down on their refusal. Humanity throwing its weight around is also what alienated the Bissem. These aren’t species that are bluffing about what they will and will not allow; they are putting their foot down. What power does humanity REALLY hold over them? They’re already convinced they can do better without us. I’m hearing so much of this talk, and it’s like you think humanity has this in the bag. Have you even considered that this might be another Extermination Fleet scenario, though? What will that “throw your weight around” get us if no one’s willing to listen and we can’t win this on our own? Basically, what I’m trying to say is that you’d be right if we knew we could handle it on our own. If the rest of the galaxy was capable of understanding that they needed our help for their own survival. Humanity may be a galactic power, but they’re a galactic power nearly matched by the Yotul. The SC, Remnants, and Arxur believe that they can make do without us if necessary. There’s no weight to throw around. As for that last bit, no they probably aren’t. The Kolshians are not a member of the SC, and I believe that at most, they may be a protectorate of humanity. I’m not entirely sure of all the details, so they might have still broken some rules.

Dookus Maximus

I think this was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

EliasArt2Life

@Some Lvm Some of Zhao’s first actions were him yelling at alien representatives (Axley), potential allies, for cowering in fear because they were scared of humans. He initially refused to have anything to do with the Arxur, and only changed AFTER Jones went behind his back and Isif had helped the UN. (Yes, he was given modified info by Jones that made him imprison Isif, but him refusing to meet/talk with Isif before that was on him.) Yes, Zhao changed, but he changed to become MORE like Meier, who you’ve made it clear that you disdain. I find it funny to think that you think they “renegaded” on their decision to not judge any species on diet under Kuemper’s watch. No. They’ve ALWAYS been like that. As always, they were just treating humanity as an exception. They still wanted the Arxur purged, and they would have been JUST as scared of the Bissem if they had been discovered then. I hate to remind you AGAIN, but Meier was the one who sold out the Extermination Fleet to the Arxur. He was the one who launched that preemptive strike on the Gojids, which saved humanity from an EVEN EARLIER bombing. Meier was a diplomat who could resort to violence. Zhao was a militarist who could resort to diplomacy (although, he had to learn how). With how quick you are to forget these events every time, I’m starting to think that your hatred for Meier isn’t really due to his leadership skills, but more that you just disdain diplomacy as a whole. As for your second comment, you are misremembering. While I can understand that logic, I find it breaks down. But, by that logic, all the civilian lives lost in the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were fair game, right? They were part of the enemy nation, and took part in its efforts. They even believed in the propaganda and that their nation was superior. (You don’t have to answer that, by the way; I consider that to be an unfair question. It manipulates too many people’s emotions. I just needed to respond, and couldn’t think of a better analogy for the life of me) If you think that only a few Kolshians took the opportunity to get off of Aafa due to clinging onto “their Federation ways”, you clearly missed the point of that mini series. The point was to show how hard it was for the Kolshians to be accepted. Staff that didn’t care, understaffing, limited people being brought up at a time, no information of requirements, rules, or regulations, the whole thing was making it almost impossible for them to get off Aafa. Plus, I’d say there were significantly more than “a few” Kolshians applying to leave. Note that when the UN relocated the Kolshians to Caato to avoid the bombing, Space Paladin has confirmed that BILLIONS left. Yeah. Definitely staying on world because of their Federation ideology. Prejudiced bureaucracy had nothing to do with it. Definitely NOT because they’re under quarantine. Also, we LITERALLY invited a rebellion and used information warfare to destroy the Arxur Dominion. I’d say they were beaten. Most of the SC DIDN’T change at first. In fact, about half of the current members came around later. But I’ve had enough of that; why do you believe that the Farsul haven’t changed? We haven’t gotten to see if/how their society has changed. Finally, you still haven’t answered my final question of my first comment; why do you feel that Zhao is so much better than Meier or Kuemper? You answered it referring to the characters, but I specifically asked for you to keep the characters out of it. I’m asking fab out YOU and YOUR ideologies, not about your opinions of characters and THEIR ideologies. You’re still talking about the story. Because, at the end of the day, how we interpret the story and the characters in the story will always be shadowed by our individual perspectives. But your personal perspective, your ideologies, and thoughts, that’s something that ONLY you have. I want to understand the fundamental difference in our perspectives. It’s tiring seeing these differences in perspective, but not knowing why.

AnAbsoluteVillain

Bahhh what a little cannablism between old friends? Humans should be the last people to throw a stone in this glass house. (#GeneralZhaosChikn #SoylentGreen) Just havent been around long enough to terrorize the locals. Someone needs to tell the skeletons to get back in the closet, before someone realizes the monkeys like thier restaurant brands in red. Seriously we have more in common with the lizards than any other race. Blessed is Kaisel for starting this obor business. Maybe humanity can start worrying about the real ones.

JaxonJak

Okay, so, I had been out of the loop and have just binged my way back to the present and I feel the need to vent some stuff. *inhale* TAYLOR WTH MAN! FIX YOUR DAMN SELF! SC, WHAT BS HAVE YOU A BEEN DOING, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN ALIANCE! ELIAS, I WANT TO LIKE YOU BUT HAVE TO GIVE ME SOMETHING! ALL THE KREV, IF YOU DON'T STOP THE HUMAN-OBOR-CUTE CRAP, YOU ARE GOING TO GET BOMBED, REPEATEDLY! TASSI, PLEASE BE WILLING TO MAKE A STAND. HUMANITY, WTF, YALL KNEW THE FEDS WERE THERE. IF I FIND OUT THAT YOU WERE JUST KUMBAYAH ING THIS WHOLE TIME AND NOT MAKING PREPERATIONS FOR THE INEVITABLE, I WILL LOSE ANY RESPECT I HAD FOR YOU. Okay?, Okay.

AnAbsoluteVillain

Since we have six factions now. (SC, Fed, Auxur, Shield, KC, Shadow Fed) Wonder if ShadowFed will mind that their homeworld just got vaped. 🤔

Dookus Maximus

The shadow faction are a splinter group of Farsul. They did not lose their homeworld.

Matthew Mclemore

Soon parties are gonna get to talking. I feel like if the arxur get into contact with the KC they could ally, both wanting to get rid of the federation

Kevo

lol since no one else mentioned it the krakotl staying with the UN through the battle warms my heart, and Naltor probably having a wtf face at the auxur using the new ships as a shield made me laugh.

Some Lvm

@Eleas: I guess we really do see these stories in a very different light. I was doing my best to answer your question of why I prefer Zhao over Meir and Kuemper but that didn't seem to work. I am not sure what answer you are looking for, since we are discussing characters and their actions, yet you wont me to tell you why I like someone without talking about how they acted or what they did? Let me try to generalize as best I can: I dislike diplomacy conducted out of a position of weakness even when you have the position of strength, and I hate compromising on aspects that go directly to society's core values. I don't agree with notions of peace at all costs, or even avoid war at all costs. I especially hate turning blind eye to hostilities or violations of human rights for the sake of peace between nations. I hate these approaches because I live under a government that tried that exact strategy and ended up with many people dead, including some close to me. I will also answer your question about Hiroshima and Nagasaki: Those cities were not chosen at random. Hiroshima specifically was a major military hub during WW II, which means most adult citizens there worked to support the war effort in some capacity. So yes - I believe everyone in those cities were "fair game" for the bombings, and although I know those bombings have been considered controversial for a while, I see nothing wrong with them. Knowing how Japan fought in that war, how they treated war prisoners and what they have done, they more than earned it. The atrocities of the Holocaust committed by the Nazis may have overshadowed Japan's misdeeds in WW II in the eyes of history, but that does not meant they were small by any measure! Back to the specific actions you mentioned - Meir was reactionary, while Zhao was proactionary. Meir only told the Arxur about Nishtal out of desperation, and he stated he regretted doing it. As for the Godgids, that might have been the only thing Meir has done right during his reign, but even than I think the strategies employed cost humanity too much, and weakened it before the extermination fleet. Turning around and fighting the Arxur on the cradle was not a logical move, even if it did work out well in some small specific ways, Meir could not have known that. Speaking of which - I am not sure he was manipulated by Jones, but even if he was at first, he did end up steering Issif's rebellion in just the right way to both get rid of the Dominion and help with the Shadow Caste. I am willing to bet Meir would have failed there, either by pushing to far too fast or trying to distance from Isif so hard officially, he would not provide the support needed to topple Dominion leadership. Finally, we don't really see much of the SC under Zhao. We don't even really know how long it was before he was replaced! The way I interpret things, he got the original members to tolerate the Arxur being alive, and the Skalgans and Yotul even making some diplomatic moves toward them, and later after he was gone, his successor brought in more Fed aligned species in to the SC and began a change to the worse.

Some Lvm

@Elias: there was never a clear line in the Federation between military and exterminators. Remember - Kalsim was an exterminator, and not an admiral. Chances are, the captain in this engagement was also a "Predator hunter", as that is already a noble position in Yulpa society, its not a stretch they would give someone like that a mission like this. 1) I don't see how these facts prove your point - Godjids still tried to fight the Arxur even if they were not that good at it. The Yulpa tried to fight the Arxur here, but we don't see enough of their performance to see how well they do, but they didn't exactly wipe the floor with those Arxur drones. 2) I am not sure I understand why you claim one could only travel along the edges of the cube. As I remember it, humanity did not learn of the extermination fleet through sensors, but through intelligence. It is clearly stated in earlier chapter of NoP 2 that they had to deploy buoys at warp to detect the KC drones, so clearly the SC still has no sensor technology to detect ships at warp from normal space. We also learn warp disruptors have limited range. I honestly don't think you realize just how huge the sides of your proposed cube would be, and how much sheer matter it would take to cover them in any form of sensors or disruptors. Since neither the KC nor SC are grinding up entire solar systems for their industry, I would say they are not at that level. It is all about orbital or near orbital defense exactly because of scale. But maybe I am just not understanding your explanation, because it seems like you are bolstering my point rather than tearing it down... 3) Yes. The "Sailor" is cute, but not really impressive in terms of technology. If anything - it showcases "prey mentality", running away instead of fortifying and fighting. Even if the remnants made some progress in terms of cybersecurity, which I doubt, we see no progress in their ships - no design change, no new weapons, no new shields - nothing! The shield went anti-Fed after the bombing of the Duerten planet (Kalka?) They may tolerate the remnants, but they are different from them mentally, and have began to throw off Fed thinking. *The reason I believe the remnants haven't learn much about cyber security, is because humanity stopped the cyberattack themselves, and there were no cyberattacks since than. You can't develop defense if no one is attacking you. Cyber is just as much an arms race as with conventional weapons, and you learn mostly by doing. It's not exactly my domain of expertise, but close enough for me to nit pick on anything realated in fiction.

Some Lvm

@Elias - now I see why you can't understand my position on UN leadership! You don't know how people work! Sorry, I know that probably sounds offensive, it's kind of my take on a joke from a Robot Chicken sketch, I don't really mean anything by it, just a way to sum up my impression. Meir's plan was not solid. It was a desperate gamble, and he made a mistake by posing the ultimatum to a single captain in a fleet, rather than to Nishtal's government. Though maybe he had no way to reach Kalsim's superiors. I am not saying it would have worked if he did, but the only proven case of MAD working we have is on state level, not army level. I don't completely blame Meir for the billion dead, but only because he was under immense pressure, with no time, no proper military force, and no real allies. He was a civilian cornered in to an impossible war and he tried his best. Still, he could have done things differently - by all accounts, humanity should have sided with the Arxur the moment they found out about the extermination fleet. Without the knowledge of the Archives, that would have been a reasonable position. But Kuemper's situation is completely different! She had plenty of time to prepare, a very powerful military force, and plenty of existing allies. As I recall, she never told Meir "no" when he proposed reaching out to the Feds to her. She also gave the order to switch off the FTL disruptors, so she knew they were coming and did nothing to tell them to stay away. Here is the thing: she should have realized the moment they saw Arxur ships, drones or not, things will go to shit. No Federation species has ever demonstrated rational thinking over their programming or emotions. Kuemper actually considered making peace with the remnants after Meir reported to her how fixed in their ways they still were, and that was her first mistake. Her second and graver mistake was trying to appease a clearly hostile faction at the expanse of valuable allies in the middle of battle. By the way - do you honestly think the remnants wouldn't try to use this opportunity to free Aafa, if they had not been wiped out by the Arxur? You can't have piece with people who have been planning your demise for 20 years, but neither Kuemper, nor Meir, not you it seems, understand that!

Some Lvm

It took me a day to realize, but Zhao would have seen it a mile away: The war with the Fed remnants was unavoidable the moment they warped in to the Aafa system! Some people here seem to think that if Kaizal was reasonable and just left without a fight, the Youlpa, Drezjin and Malti would just forget they ever saw them and join the fight against the KC drones. Wrong! Kizal leaving at human's behest would only confirm to them humanity was now controlling the Arxur, and they would have immediately turned their guns at the UN ships. The only way to salvage the situation would have been to threaten the Fed remnants in to leaving, and if that failed, joining forces to eradicate them swiftly so the real defenders could return to dealing with the KC fleet. But Kuemper had a breakdown and a temper tantrum instead, not only failing to defend Aafa, but breaking up the SC, leaving Bissems even deeper in the hole, and pissing off the Arxur for no reason. This is why scientists should never go in to politics! It might sound like utopia to be governed by rational, fact driven individuals seeking advancement, but in reality it just doesn't work. You either get vault 4, or this mess we have now. At least military officers know how to lead actual people, not just some fictional, always rational model of people that does not match reality 99% of the time.

TheBlack2007

The KC knows about the Arxur and wants nothing to do with them.

AgentA1cr

I think the only way Kuemper could've *maybe* salvaged this mess would've been to anticipate the potential for hostilities and warn the Arxur about the Feddies *before* they lowered the inhibitors, and suggest that they fall back to let the Feds take the heat. Kaisal might have been more willing to do that *before* the Feds shot at them.

George Smith

Classic tried to stand for everything and ultimately stood for nothing

Some Lvm

Honestly, I didn't expect the SC to collapse so completely. I figured there would be some infighting, then they sort it out, but the last thing I expected was UN SecGen acting like a spoiled little brat. Even AI Meir would not do such a thing, I am certain... But maybe its for the best: clearly the SC grew too much, too fast, and accumulated too much Fed legacy to remain stable. The way they treated the Bissems is clear indication of that. Its time to form a better coalition, and wipe out the Fed remnants once and for all before they really do grow advanced enough to become a problem. Clearly their ideology is not one that allows for a "live and let live" attitude.

Neu5Ac

Kuemper didn't break up the SC, she just resigned her position (although I'm not sure if she resigned as a representative to the SC or as Secretary General: this is why national leaders should rarely also be primary representatives). A new representative will be selected to take her place.

PhycoKrusk

@Neu She may not have broken it up, but her departure is symbolic of the situation. Her own ideology is at odds with Federation ideology, which we already knew, but the Coalition as a whole is composed of too many incompatible ideologies at this point, and it's not possible to work around them all anymore. Kuemper walking away in the moment may only be her walking away, but things being how they are, it symbolizes the UN as a whole; they have to walk away.

PhycoKrusk

@Lvm Honestly, the primary issue is... well, ok, I'm going to be injecting my own opinion and thoughts, so note that none of this is supported by anything. The issue is that the Coalition has mutated into something Zhao neither envisioned nor intended, and this is borne out through how the Coalition conducted itself in NOP1. In NOP1, the UN handled basically all military operations against the Federation, with the other members providing support; this was key because it meant that the UN was _leading_ military operations. They planned, organized, and directed all actions against the Federation, and the other members provided support in the form of supplemental forces, munitions, supplies, etc. at the UN's direction. There was a "person in charge," and if anyone wasn't clear on what to do, they knew who they needed to ask. The Coalition was a political forum first and only, and while it may have imposed some rules of engagement, the UN was otherwise free to conduct operations as they saw fit (mirroring today, when the UN may impose some rules of engagement, but the United States is otherwise free to conduct operations as it sees fit, for better or for worse). In NOP2, the Coalition is being treated as a unified military force, which is naturally impossible because there is no "person in charge"; there is no one government who is administrating the operations. Instead, the member governments have agreed upon a loose plan, meaning that as soon as something happens that disrupts that plan, there is no one that everyone else can look to for instructions. It's clear to me (or I have imagined) that Zhao never intended for the Coalition to be a military alliance, because that would necessarily one military to be superior over all the others, which wasn't what he wanted. He wanted a political forum where all the species could work together for a better future, as Meier had hoped. For the Coalition to be a single, unified military force, it would have required an empire, and for as much as I (half-) joke that Zhao was for all intents and purposes the King of Earth, that wasn't what he wanted. I say to you now, there will come a point in the not too distant future where the average UN citizen thinks of Zhao the same way that a modern American thinks of George Washington; an imperfect paragon who was in the right place at the right time with the right attitude, who had a clear view of the path towards a better future, and who nobody who comes after can ever hope to equal.

Some Lvm

@Neu: its the way she "walked away". The UN was the biggest force holding the SC together, and suddenly their leader just quit and stomped out, in the middle of both a major disagreement and a military disaster. Now there is nothing to hold the various factions together.

PhycoKrusk

I know there are plenty who think "This wouldn't have happened if Zhao was still Secretary-General" (including me), and while that's probably true, I don't think it's because "He would've known exactly what to do," but because things wouldn't have gotten to this point in the first place. I have no doubt that Kuemper tried her best, but the fact is there really isn't anyone else who has the mix of vision, experience, and force of personality that Zhao did: He could not only convince you that he saw where things ought to be in 5, 10, 20 years, but also that he knew how to get there and would carry you if you couldn't make the journey yourself. I don't think we're going to see another leader like him again. If Isif is still kicking around, he might be the closest (even if he didn't _quite_ have the vision that Zhao did), but even if he is, he's not Zhao. I feel like it's going to be rough water ahead.

Fienryra

Given krumper’s resignation there’s a good chance Meier comes back! Although I’m not sure if his revival has been fully announced which would make for a very interesting next few chapters

T___

The SC has been a hindrance for a long time, tying humanity's hands behind our backs with their constant bickering, cowardice, and complete lack of morals. Kaisal isn't wrong: they helped us again and again, and we hang them out to dry. We never came through for them. Perhaps a looser coalition than SC might work. One that doesn't stop you from doing what is morally right, but offers cooperation when each participant so choose. Maybe starting with science and culture. Then have conventional allies for war and such.

EliasArt2Life

@Some Lvm Okay, first, Meier’s “gamble” WAS working. He sent the message to the ENTIRE Extermination Fleet. Kalsim was the one-in-a-million outlier who WASN’T beginning to turn back. Unfortunately, he was also the leader of the fleet, deceptive enough to lie to everyone and claim we were bluffing (his memory transcript confirms that he knew we weren’t), and charismatic enough to convince everyone that his lies were the truth. Kalsim was an UNexpected outlier. Humanity siding with the Arxur would have been dumb, since we had no evidence that they could be trusted, aside from ONE captain suggesting that they might be open to an alliance. For all the evidence we had at the time, they could have turned on us nearly immediately, and turned us into a vassal. Also, it doesn’t really support your argument that Zhao is a better leader when the example of what Meier could have done better is something Zhao WOULDN’T have done (he adamantly refused to work with the Arxur until much later in the story). Quite frankly, I’m not going to defend Kuemper again, since I already responded to MOST of your points in other comments, and I’m getting tired of retyping them. As for that last bit, it would seem that you’re under a mistaken impression; you think the goal of Meier and Kuemper is Enemies —> Friends. No. That’s not it at all. Because, you’re right; you can’t make peace or friends with people who hate you and have planned for your demise for 20 years. You know what you CAN do, though? It takes time, effort, and a lot of sacrifice, but you’d be surprised how many enemies you can get to STOP being enemies if you work on it. When you address their hatred, with enough work, they start to run out of reasons to hate you. Then they’re just angry at you. You can work that into agitation or annoyance, and that into neutrality. It takes time, but it can work. Now, it’s true, some species may just outright refuse to ever change, but some of them may have a chance to change. We can’t tell until we give it a good shot. You don’t give them that shot. You judge them by their cover, and say “yeah, they hate us too much, give up on them”, and then call anyone who doesn’t want to give up on them yet “fools”. You used the Yulpa as an example. We never tried with the Yulpa; we went straight from Cyber Attack to No Contact, and have only JUST made ANY contact with them. We haven’t tried, yet you’re saying that we need to give up trying on them. You’re quitting before you’ve even taken the shot. That being said, I agree, the Yulpa have really pushed it too far here; I’d say they should be given a chance to explain, but they’re putting too much pressure on during a war. Making amends with them isn’t worth the risk of further war damages. They should be given a last warning after that.

EliasArt2Life

@Some Lvm Most species DID distinguish between Exterminators and Military (Venlil and Tilfish being two such examples). The Krakotl were an exception, but recall that they were some of the most anti-predator AND the greatest military power. Also, it was an Extermination Fleet; they had Exterminators on board to mop up survivors on Earth. 1) A home fleet vs a small raiding party = something like 10 to 1. That’s what it took for the Gojids to win. That’s what was a “good fighting force” to the old Federation. For the Remnants NOT to be wiped out by the Arxur drones means they must be much better at fighting than before. 2) Yeah, let’s just drop it. I’m terrible with symbolic language, and creating analogies is a struggle. I don’t think I could explain what I’m trying to without literally being able to show you the cubes and point to things. 3) If I recall, Meier mentioned how many armaments the Shield Ship had. Either that, or my memory is superimposing another giant ship onto it. Regardless, the point remains that other aliens are advancing. If you want to claim that the Shield is using that tech to “run away”, that’s fine, but that still doesn’t mean anything for the Remnants. They VERY MUCH could have invested into weapons tech. Also, they’re capable of testing their own cyber security; that’s what White Hat Hackers do. Besides, they’ve likely, at least, developed non-networked backups to their existing systems to prevent a total societal collapse. They’ve probably got a number of isolated networks which are even HARDER to break into.

EliasArt2Life

@Some Lvm Now that was exactly what I wanted. Thank you! I will say, when you talk about characters in the story, I see a whole lot of perspective influencing it. From my observation, which are admittedly colored by my own perspective, I precise you trying to pick and choose details, make assumptions in some cases, forget positive or negative actions taken, try to read negative traits into the positive actions that you don’t want to accept but can’t ignore, and excuse poor actions that you can’t ignore. These are problems that we all struggle with, myself included. I like to know people’s world view to understand why they make these kinds of choices. It’s easier to accept them that way, and is much better than arguing in circles over them. So once again, thank you!

Some Lvm

@Elias: I don't think Kalsim was that much of an outlier, just a bit more determined than the rest of them. In any case, like I said - a threat of mutually assured destruction needs to be done government to government. Even the Fed brainwashed Nishtal government would have wanted to save their own asses and their population, but addressing a militant zealot hell bent on genocide was unlikely to succeed. I think you believe Kalsim was one in a million because you never encountered religious fanatics in real life. Which is great for you, but trust me - Kalsim type humans are a lot more common than you think, right here in the real world! Becoming vassals of the Arxur would have been preferable to being exterminated. So no, siding with them would not have been dumb. As a vassal state, humanity could have built up its strength and rebelled eventually, but if Kalsim's fleet had succeeded, humanity would be over as a species. And Meir was operating under the assumption humanity was about to end, so if he wasn't holding his morals above humanity's survival he would have made an alliance with the Arxur. Yes - Zhao didn't want to work with Arxur at first, but he came to his senses in time, and supported the rebellion just enough for it to succeed without UN sacrificing anything for the Arxur. I never said he was perfect, just that he did a better job than Meir because he is better at understand people and leading people. Now let me ask you something: have you ever seen an example in the real world of people "running out of reasons" to hate someone? I mean on a national level? You seem to think Fed remnants hate predators strictly out of habit, but for the Yulpa at least, it is clear there is an elite among them that is dependent on their predator hating religion to keep their social status, power and wealth. It is likely that for other Fed loyalists there are also people in power who benefit from remaining in "Federation mode". Nation level hatred is seldom something that comes out of pure emotion. It is usually directed by people or groups who benefit from it, so until that profit motive is removed, the hatred will not go away, not matter how many years you try to appease them. P.S. In another message you accused me of forgetting bad things characters did, but you seem to be ignoring general order 56 when it comes to judging Meir.

Some Lvm

@Phyco: not sure if this is supported or not by cannon, but I have to agree. What you laid out here sounds plausible and reasonable to me.

EliasArt2Life

@Some Lvm Reread the Extermination Fleet chapters. The communications were clear that the fleet was unsure what to do, and leaning towards heading back to their respective homeworlds. THAT’S what I’m basing the “Kalsim is an outlier” and “one in a million” (which was hyperbole, I’ll admit, but still) on. As for the vassal one, we have no idea how the Arxur would have treated humans as vassals, or the other rules they might apply. They at least would have likely forced their eugenic ideology upon us. Also, the “we’d rebel” assumes we’d be stronger than them in that scenario. They’d be privy to getting first dibs on all the tech we develop, so their strength would grow with us (and likely faster than us). There’s no reason to believe that we’d ever be given a position of strength again. Okay. I’m tired of you claiming that Zhao grew, so he’s a good leader. Meier got killed off before he had a chance to grow. If you’re going to commend Zhao for his growth, and talk like he’s always been a good leader, rather than “he GREW into a good leader” (which I WOULD agree with), you shouldn’t be so hard on Meier; you should be saying “he COULD HAVE been a good leader, but he died first.” And before you bring up how he hasn’t changed much in NOP2, just don’t. He’s just been resurrected. He’s dealing with dozens of philosophical questions. And the catalyst for his growth is long gone and patched up. The growth he should have had from NOP1 is on hold for a good reason. As for examples, I’ve got personal examples. If you’re asking for national examples, I’ve got none that perfectly fit it; the real world tends to be a mix of things. You’re advocating for a purely military approach with no diplomacy, so that “mix of things” doesn’t help you much either. And the example of the Yulpa is yet another example of where a mixed solution is needed. Just to clarify, I’m not advocating for PURE diplomacy. Just PRIMARY diplomacy. You’re the one who’s talking about totally annihilating those who won’t take no for an answer. As for order 56, I avoided talking about it because I thought that my past comments had made my thoughts on it very clear. I actually support order 56. I think it was the right move. I think it went on a little long, but that wasn’t Meier’s fault; he was dead. You know who COULD have ended it earlier? Zhao. (Sorry, couldn’t resist that one) Anyway, I don’t consider Order 56 to be bad, so I wasn’t selectively ignoring one of Meier’s past mistakes. I didn’t want to talk about order 56 because I don’t feel that I’m capable of discussing it with an open mind. My reasons for agreeing with it are based in the way I see people and the world. The aliens in NOP are human in psychology. The way I see it, the aliens would always take anything “predatory” in the worst possible way, use that as evidence to support their worst preconceptions, and respond with violence (indirect in their case, but still). The outliers who choose to be open minded would rarely speak up, and when they did, be branded as traitors or shouted over. Humans, on the other hand, would ignore the advice of experts and insist that a sink or swim approach is the best way to handle things. They’d be all too ready to show off humanity’s worst aspects to people who weren’t ready for it, who were prepared to use it against humanity. Order 56 created a filter that minimized those negative interactions, and gave the aliens with any capability for open-mindedness enough time to confront and overcome their worst preconceptions. That is my take on Order 56. And I since it’s based on how I see people, you can’t really change my opinion on that without changing my perception of people. Something that you can’t do because you don’t know the inner workings of my mind and world view. It’s not a fair topic; it would be like trying to break down a brick wall with a block of pinewood.

EliasArt2Life

@Some Lvm Sorry to bring this up at this point, but I forgot to add it to my initial response. When you said “You don't know how people work!”, it WAS an incorrect thing to say, but not for the reason you probably think. (Also, don’t worry, I’m not offended; it’s a simple mistake) For this to be a reason for our inability to understand each other, you would have to know how people work. This implies that you are knowledgeable of people, where I am not. However, the problem here isn’t with the implication, but with “people”. “People” is totally inclusive; it refers to every person. Now, I know myself, right? I definitely know myself better than you know me. Therefore, you cannot know every person better than I know every person. (Unless you are implying that I’m not a person, but you don’t mean that) In fact, there are probably many types of people that I DO know better than you. People that I understand where you cannot. My point is, you need to specify WHAT KIND of people you’re talking about. You can’t just say that I don’t understand people in general. Otherwise it DOES come off as an offensive thing to say. I mean, it’s a presumptuous thing to say either way, but it’s DEFINITELY offensive if you don’t specify what kind of people you’re referring to when you say “people”.

Some Lvm

@Elias: Alright, a lot to unpack here, hope I don't miss anything... 1. The way I interpret the extermination fleet chapters, is that there were some who wavered on those ships, they there was not enough of them, and their convictions about saving their worlds were not strong enough to overcome their chain of command. In my opinion, if Kalsim was that much of an outlier, some noticeable number of captains would have disobeyed his orders and turned back. Maybe not enough to save Nishtal, but at least we would have evidence there are Krakotle who love their children more than they hate humans. Instead we now have evidence Krakotle let 8 year olds delete cities, and than abandon them the second the situation gets difficult. We don't know how indicative Kala's story is of the overall Krakotle society, but add that to the fact no ship turned around, and I at leas, see a pattern here. 2. Humans know how to hide things. The underground rail road prior to US civil war, the Partisans during WW II, and there are probably more examples I can't think of off the top of my head because I am not a history buff. Humanity is good at resisting, to a point I believe the Arxur would not expect or be able to effectively deal with. In a fictional ralm, there is a story by Arthur C. Clarke called "Loophole". 3. To be clear: my position is that Zhao always was a good leader, and didn't need to grow, nor did he grow. He made one mistake, and he fixed it in time. That is what good leaders do, its nor growth, its reasonable behavior. I don't consider him yelling at an ambassador, especially a Sivkit one, to be a bad thing. Meir was much longer in office, but he was a bad leader, at least when it came to war time. We don't really know much about him during peace time, but judging by general order 56, he was probably a bad leader at peace time too, since he clearly didn't know where to draw the line at beating his own constituents over the had. I believe this behavior fostered the growth of Humanity First and contributed to him getting assassinated. 4. Which brings us to order 56: If it wasn't for Lars (was that his name?), and his story with both Cilany and the two Zurulian doctors, I might have let it slide, thinking it was only meant to filter truly violent things. But it was way too broad, covering things most normal humans would consider harmless, even suitable for children. The scope of it shows to me that Meir panicked, and tried to erase everything that made us human to appease aliens. I can understand why he might have though that was necessary at that point in time, but that still makes him a bad leader in my view. And you are right: Zhao should have cancelled it immediately, but I can forgive him for not doing so, only because Meir left him with a major cluster to clean up. 5. I feel like I need to clarify my position on diplomacy, regardless of this story: When a nation begins hostile action towards you, it is not time for diplomacy. Any violence needs to be answer with greater violence first and foremost to deter the aggressor. Only once the attacker has been sufficiently pushed back and weakened, can diplomacy be used to end the conflict. And in some cases, as with terrorist organizations for example, diplomacy is never the answer. If someone attacks you (on a national level, not personal), and you try to negotiate, you will only embolden them. For diplomacy to have any chance to succeed, both sides need to be willing to talk. If one side is poised to attack, diplomacy will not work. Threats might avoid actual violence, but not diplomacy. 6. Regarding the whole "how people work" remark, think of it as "psychohistory": I don't claim to know what you personally think or how would you behave in any given situation, nor do I claim to know this of any other specific person. I am even a student of human nature in general, but what I learned from observing large scale events and actions of large groups of people in the real world, especially in the past few years with the pandemic and multiple conflicts, gives me a perspective on people which I think some others, especially those who live far away from my region don't have. Yes, I am being intentionally vague, and I am sorry, I don't want this to turn in to a real political debate. I just don't see how anyone could think Kuemper's actions could have prevented a war, with everything we have read here about Fed mentality. All she did, all she could ever do with her approach was to spoil the relations with Arxur, who were finally starting to act like proper citizens of the galaxy. 7. I am not sure how else to properly convey my utter disdain for diplomacy with Feds, so I will leave you with this comment on the Yulpa: * They learned their religion was manufactured by Kolshians to control them. * They learned predators were sapient and not evil. * Humanity ended their cyberattack and left the Yulpa free for 20 years, while they could have annihilated them, raided the planet, or imprison them as the UN did with Kolshians and Farsul. But after all that, after 20 years of peace from powerful predators, the Yulpa society has no changed one bit. How can anyone hope for peace with a planet of people who have no intention of changing their murderous ways, not matter how much evidence is presented to them? Why would you think more time would help? What would be the catalyst for any change? This is why I think the Yulpa have to go. Their continued existence will only cost more lives. And now - I don't support cultural genocide, I don't want humans being forced to do what the Feds did to the Venlil. Make it clean, drop some bombs from orbit, and be done with it.

Some Lvm

P.S. I want to clarify I don't consider resurrected Meir to be the real Meir. He is the result of an AI processing a static snapshot of Meir's already dead brain. As fantastic as this technology is, I can't believe it can create an accurate, complete and identical copy of a person. So to me, the new Meir is a separate entity similar to the old Meir but not identical. I neither credit nor blame the original Meir for robo Meir's deeds, but I can and do blame Kuemper for going along with his ideas without question, treating him as though he was still here boss.

Cerchus

The UN was wrong, their treatment of the arxur has been wrong ever since the end of the first war. This shouldn’t have even been a question the fed remnants hate us and decades of peace have done nothing to change that. The correct answer to them opening fire on the arxur was to open fire on the remnants and move out of the way of the drones. Sure the UN is occupying the planet but that’s just a resource drain, let it be bombed and focus on stoping them when your “Allies” will actually help you. Until then help the arxur wipe out the fed remnants they had ample chances to choose peace but that time has passed. Then again the wise move would have been bombing them all into the dust back during the cyber attacks that crippled them.

Neu5Ac

That's a fair point. And for the record, I wasn't disagreeing that the SC is going to fall apart. I actually said myself quite a while ago that revolutionary governments and war unions simply don't last, so it was doomed to fail sooner or later anyway. This is why the Allies of WWII wound up splitting up and forming the EU, the UN, and NATO, with the members joining each as was relevant to their geopolitical state and ideology.

EliasArt2Life

@Some Lvm Okay, I’d love to keep this discussion up, but It takes me about an hour each time I write an in depth response, and I my emotions end up flaring up the whole time. Simply put, I’m getting burnt out (not just due to this discussion; maybe 10% from it), so I need to take a few days off from these discussions. I’ll speed through this. 1) I respect your interpretation, but I interpreted it as they were on the brink of turning back, and Kalsim convinced them to stay through manipulation. Especially manipulating their belief of predators lying. 2) Honestly, I think you’re underestimating the Arxur. I do not think methods like that would be as successful as you expect, once they were in control. 3) Honestly, if you want to claim Zhao was always a good leader, then I’m going to have to totally disagree. Once again, you’re hand waving away his flaws. I would say blowing off Isif was more than a mistake. 4) Nope. Not even touching this one. I already stated that this isn’t an argument that I can be open minded about. (P.S. once again, you forgive Zhao’s mistakes, something you don’t do with Meier and Kuemper) 5) There has been no attack on the SC. The most recent “violent” actions were the war, which is over and were now at peace. The Arxur aren’t associated with the SC, so attacking them isn’t an attack on the SC. If you want to consider hostile words/attitude/desires a hostile action… well, I totally disagree with that. Granted, part of me would love to beat up anyone who had a bad attitude with me, but that’s not how things should be. 6) Sometimes there IS no avoiding a war, only damage control about what type of war it is. Your methods wouldn’t have prevented a war, either. 7) That is not true. Or to be more exact, that is not true FOR THE YULPA. That whole thing was from your perspective. Have you considered it from theirs? They probably HAVEN’T learned the first two points; they have the information, but haven’t accepted it, since accepting it would tear apart everything that they know. It’s not easy to do that. They also would phrase the final point as “humanity attacked us, destroyed our infrastructure, left our civilization in chaos for months, and then left us to pick up the pieces after destroying the Federation and leaving us without a leader. Then they spent 20 years profiting off of that war, and never paid reparations.” Why would they seek peace? Before they accept peace, they need to change their perspective, which they definitely WILL NOT do if we play into their current perspective through war. As for the P.S., I was just covering my bases with that. I don’t intend to have a discussion on this story’s Meier for a while still.