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Oren's Forge PG 362 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-10-20 21:00:15
Edited:
2025-11-18 21:20:40
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:

Content

New page out next Monday!

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Comments

LukeOnTheBrightSide

I absolutely LOVE the stylized third panel. And so many wolves!

Dhaka Yeena

Backstory time!!! Gather around the campfire

Houndstooth

Interesting to see the wolves' history painted in this way. We know that Swift's family views "the hunt" (basically working tirelessly for your food) as a noble endeavor that gives them purpose, whereas here it's just some backwards thing the wolves needed to overcome (we knew this, but it's still interesting to see how it's taught)

Felidae

ooo lore time Also love the sunset color palette. Looks amazing

Gabe Bold

The colors in this page are just beautiful! Like, each panel could be a print on its own

Givemeyourmilk

I love the detail that the kids are TERRIFIED at such barbaric imagery. They're kids, yes, but it's deeper than that. They've never hunted, so this reality is just that to them- a scary story. Something sp awful they'd NEVER do, because they've never had to... While the adults, some of which have certainly hunted, it's a somber memory. For more still who have grown in the zenith, its a lifestyle they've heard of, but it's still grisly imagery

Loïc Van Doorn

Those wolves in the last panel must have taken forever to draw. Love looking at all their faces and expressions. That's some next level artistic dedication right there.

Luckyclaw

I'm lapping up the way that Zenith wolves are constantly flipping back and forth between "our culture is superior to feral wolves because we're not constantly afraid of starving!" and then, in another breath, justifying their violence and cruelty with the threat of it. Even the way Rake's describing the "before" times here is fascinatingly manipulative; It's a harrowing part of the story to everyone that a mother and/or calf might die, as if they weren't going to slaughter Swift and her puppies in even colder blood for "the grand plan" a few days ago. And that's not even getting in to how many "sharp animals" have been slaughtered in mass. There is an ocean of blood just off screen, and we don't even know how deep it goes... for what? For these people to be terrified all the time anyway? To half-joke that children are "hungry leeches" and wildborn puppies can be trampled as sport? For people to have to secretly sneak away to find medicine, lest they be hunted by their own "brethren" as strays? Back in Part 1, I felt like Rask's speech about predator/prey violence wasn't really backed up enough by the narrative. "You stop the hunting by bringing them to the hollow" felt baseless when Yarrow "i just ran fastest" McMartin was so callous even to his own family's deaths. Seeing the Zenith, it's REALLY clicking now. To "bring them to the hollow" means to fully treat each other as equals, else you end up with caste systems held together by increasing levels of fear towards what's different. "Shadow of the Sun" indeed. I think this is my favorite part so far.

Julian Seguin

What’s the price of admission? And do the Zenith vet the stories before they are shared?

treefiddy

Keep in mind that Rake is likely quite insulated from how things have changed recently. Rake is also telling the story that he was told and grew up on, the story of how they came to be. Not necessarily the story of their current condition. It was only recently that the dynamic in their world was upset. Before they met the pronghorn, they likely didn't even really need to fight or kill at all. Just show up and everyone would scatter, and only on a rare occasion would they actually need to fight anyone. Best I can tell, it's only been a year since things were upset (the southwestern monsoon that they were following is a late summer thing). Before that fateful meeting, their world probably worked in the way Rake is describing. Death, hunger, and fear were all a foreign concept. Rake's entire life probably worked that way too, and by the time they actually met the pronghorn, he was already out of his 'prime' and probably didn't directly experience it. Kind of in the same way and older person with 30 years tenure at a job won't understand the troubles younger people have in a tough job market. He's from the time when anyone willing was welcome, so he's probably not even aware of the terms that Swift was given, or the threats that the Sun may have given to her pups.

treefiddy

Singer seems to be absent on this page. I'd expect him to be close in with Hap and Pivot, but I don't see him at all. There is a wolf silhouette in the background on the first panel with seemingly larger than normal ears, but I can't confirm that's actually him with any certainty. I wonder what's going on with him, he's seemed pretty upset and down ever since he reported back, and especially after Ramble snapped back with the 'everything was fine until you showed up' comment. I keep getting the feeling that there's a lot more going on under the surface with him that we get glimpses of, but haven't truly seen come out just yet.

Luckyclaw

VERY very true and a great point. To clarify, when I said "fascinatingly manipulative," I meant more from sociological standpoint than an individual one. Rake himself probably isn't fully cognizant of how the story he's telling is actually quite hypocritical compared to the Zenith's current actions-- in fact, if you tried to point this out to him, it would probably be very hurtful and he would have an ad hoc reason why you're wrong. The narratives we share about our in-groups to communicate our values are very important to us. For a controversial example, it would be like trying to tell a proud American they don't have much freedom compared to (insert country with objectively more freedom), and their country is extremely hypocritical for (insert US-backed coup to overthrow democracy) in (insert country ravaged by US intervention). You'd only end up pissing them off, starting an argument about semantics, and probably causing them to dig their heels in deeper. It's also an intriguing detail that it's the older members of the Zenith who seem to believe most ardently in the "foundation" values. Clay's Gray Mother scolded the young bulls for implying that the wolves would DARE to take a sick baby, condemning the "protection circle" that Clay's relatives formed instead of doing something. Hake refers to bison as "comrades," unlike the other wolves who seem to be lowkey terrified of talking openly around them. It makes me think the analogy of the "tough job market" isn't the full story here. I don't have enough evidence to have a counterexample to your analogy; but I've got a weird feeling we need to know more about the "transition of power" from the old Moon to Mishap, or maybe more insight to the personality of the current Sun. After all, we didn't hear about Puppy Tapdancing Bloodsport from the Sun, but from the wolves themselves. I wonder if that's based on a real event, or something related to how "justice" is doled out against lawbreakers in this society. (Also I have to mention again that I'm VERY suspicious of why so many pronghorn felt a need to take up arms. This can't be a "cowboys vs farmers" sort of conflict where "cattle drives" are inherently destructive; pronghorn rely on bison to create and manage their preferred ecosystems, with yearly migrations being the norm in the pre-colonial US. Bison are a keystone species. The primary plant that makes up most prairie in the region is *literally* called buffalograss. Why did those particular pronghorn suddenly go sharp, after generations of routine bison visits? What did Mishap leave out of the story she told to Ramble?)

Luckyclaw

The price of admission is 1 Singer

Julian Seguin

It’s worse than that. If this pack has coexisted for generations, then of these wolves don’t even have to hunt anymore. It’s practically store bought for them.

treefiddy

To be fair, I dont think it's an absolute perfect analogy with the job market, but I think it's close enough. The gist is that when Rake was in his prime, he didn't have to deal with the tough situations Hap currently finds herself in. In the same vein, that old timer who was guaranteed a job right out of school and kept it for 30 years just can't truly understand the challenges and decisions people have to make today just to survive while finding a job. They may know it logically, but they don't truly understand it emotionally. About the peripherially postulated puppy punting, agreed. we've only heard it from Pivot what they'd actually do. Pivots also not exactly known for being a super reliable source of accurate information. When she was talking about wild wolves, her assumptions were quite exaggerated and not really all that accurate. Outside of that, I find your analysis of that Run page quite interesting, because I read it totally differently. The way I read that scene, the Grey mother was scolding Clay for suggesting that the other bison in the protection circle were just doing nothing- with the implied implication that since they were just "standing around", they didn't care that much if the child lived or not. I think even though she agrees with Clay that just standing in the circle wasn't enough, she wasn't going to let the implied undertone that they 'didn't care' stand. Lastly, thats another thing that confused me with the pronghorn and bison fight. Because normally, the two species coexist peacefully. If you think about the chronological order of how that situation would have played out though, it makes a bit more sense. The wolves first sent out a leading party, who would have encountered the pronghorn alone. From the pronghorns perspective, a pack of wolves just showed up ready to attack, so they acted accordingly. When the rest of the pack followed and found the massacre, they would have treated the pronghorn as a threat (and rightfully so), so they continued the attack. It wasn't until later that the bison were actually involved. Perhaps, had the pronghorn not reacted to the initial wolf wave, or known that they were part of a bison herd, they wouldnt have actually fought. I don't think it's too unreasonable to assume that the conclave had never met this specific bison herd before to know about the wolves. These areas are vast, and if the herd is only in the region for a short time out of the year, it could be many years before they end up in that specific spot. From the wolves point of view, the pronghorn were just denying the bison access to the grass. From the pronghorn perspective, they were defending the conclave from a pack of wolves. There may not have actually needed to be any fighting at all. Which brings about interesting thoughts, because if thats all really true then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, aggression begetting aggression. They're letting themselves get trapped in the same processes they though they escaped from when forming the alliance; a never ending circle of violence. Perhaps, this is what Hap is talking about when she says that she's learned how to deal with sharp animals. Maybe she did some introspection to how the wolf-bison alliance formed, and realized that maybe they don't need to go into those situations initially with aggression.

Krzysztof K

When I first saw scenes of the Zenith herd's war with the pronghorns, I wondered if they couldn't have talked to each other before all this happened. After all, wolves probably know the language of herbivores because they live with bison (unless the bison know the language of predators). Now, with new developments in the story, it's clear that Zenith wasn't even thinking about it. Hap was shocked that the herbivores didn't flee from the wolves; it was the first time they'd encountered something like this; they thought it would always be that way. We also don't know how much the bison herd has changed. Maybe the wolves from Zenith think it's us and the wild wolves, not our brothers—that's why the bison don't want to share, wanting everything for themselves, thinking that since they have wolves, they don't have to get along with others. I think it's worth remembering not to overreact to what's happening in the real (our) world. Teagan has repeatedly written that this is a kind of thought experiment on what animals would do. It's a world where social changes are taking place; animals of different species are just discovering that they can band together in larger groups and create things together, or simply stop being afraid and fleeing. Consider that the pronghorns decided to stop wandering and wanted to settle somewhere permanently. They started creating things that were important to them and stopped fearing predators (they might even have been the guardians of the conclave; we see the same pronghorns in Oren's memories of the conclave). Therefore, it's possible that the pronghorns didn't want bison and wolves entering their territory, which could have been their home and where there were various resources (water, various vegetation, maybe even something the pronghorns had accumulated over the years), not just grass, which is a resource for both the pronghorns and the bison. The pronghorns may simply have been reluctant to share the territory because there would be a lack of food or because it was their home. (P.S. It's unknown how much, or even if, there was grass in this area that only bison eat.)

Microgrampup

Hap said “don’t worry, it ends here” in response to seeing the spear end from the Hollow. I don’t think she has a peaceful way of dealing with spear users.

Microgrampup

Your point about the pronghorn relying on bison for ideal grasslands is kind of why I think the wolves are really screwed. Why sacrifice any of your herd to the wolves when there’s other herd animals that can apparently do the job better than them? We’ll have to see Hap’s solution to “sharp animals” though.