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(Making this a free/public post because I foresee linking back to it at some point.)

I know there’s a lot of confusion about the language barrier between some animals (largely predator and prey) so let me try to answer it!

THE WHY

It was a really early story decision to have a language barrier for the narrative purpose of predator animals having the cognitive dissidence to eat other sentient things. It’s harder to eat someone if they are begging or cursing in your native language. That’s my narrative reason for ‘why.’

The language barrier was also a nice way to introduce Egg as a go-between, and she serves as an example of where the Hollow is at with predators (knocking out teeth.)

But then I was also bored stiff of the idea of Rask learning a spoken language. There’s a limited amount of time I can spend on pages (or that you, dear reader, can spending waiting on pages,) and I just didn’t want to waste it on something that slowed down getting to the actual meat of the story I wanted to tell.

So, I adjusted my own idea of their ‘language’ but I failed to really convey the exact flavor of handwavium I was going for in the text of the story. (I say failed but I didn't really try to. This is a longer side-story but suffice to say, around page 80 when Rask meets the Hollow animals, I was at a major crossroads. I wasn't sure if I wanted to make Oren's Forge a 'real' story or just end it/quit [this was before Patreon and working on the comic was putting me pretty deep into debt]. I decided to keep going though, and part of that decision was getting to the story I really wanted to tell as quickly as I could. That did not involve Rask sitting around learning a language.)

The species language divide is wide and deep. Most humans go their whole lives only talking to other humans! *joke*

But for real, interspecies communication exists - you can slow blink at a cat and have them slow blink back (which means, ‘we are both relaxed,’) or you can play-bow at a dog and have them rocket off into hyperspace. It’s less about learning specific words and more about creating common ground/shared meaning. A dog will learn words, don’t get me wrong, but a dog is never going to learn grammar. Which brings me to…

TL;DR

I think that the animals are communicating through a mixture of spoken language, body language and scent/pheromones. I chose ‘speed’ as a metric in the comic because fluid body language and scent are hard (for me) to portray coherently on a static page. They “speak too fast” is a quick, easy way to convey “they can’t understand each other super well.”

So, a wolf could learn to talk to a rabbit, if they cared enough to try. Would it look like English words? No, but I want to tell you a story so I am translating all the smelly, wiggly, croaking, growling head tilts for you into English.

SPECIFICALLY, BY CHARACTER…

- Sibyl and Hemlock understand predators because they’ve been around them/made a study of their natures.

- Oren has his own reasons for why he simply does not engage with wolves (you can read Oren and the One-Eyed Wolf if you wanna know more.) He is much more open to Rask and Egg given their situation, and is willing to listen/approach.

- The Zenith wolves and bison understand each other because they spend their whole lives in close proximity to one another.

- Rask can speak readily to other predators because on a behavioral level, they share a lot in common. I also think since he’s lower on the food chain, paying attention to other predators when they speak becomes a survival strategy.

(I’d liken it to how in parts of Europe, you are just expected to learn English as a second language. For example, Rask’s native tongue is 'French' but he also fluently speaks 'English' to increase his opportunities out in the wider world.)

- I’d say it’s pretty common for small/mid sized predators and omnivores to be able to at least roughly understand one another, as well as understand larger predators. Conversely, apex predators (bears, wolves, cougars) have very little conversational interaction with other species and have zero experience trying to communicate beyond “go away” or whatever (which is easy to convey with body language). They only rarely communicate with any species other than their own.

- Like apex predators, most prey animals (rabbits, mice, hares) are also insular and typically only hang around others of their same species. I think a rabbit can talk to a hare without much trouble, but a rabbit might have to spend time around squirrels/mice before they are fluent with one anothers’ (spoken-, body-, chemical-) language.

BUT WHAT DO THE COLORS MEAN?

- Green bubble means prey animals can understand.

- Red bubble means predators can understand.

- White bubble means everyone in the conversation can understand.

So that’s how I think about the language barrier(s). I hope that helps!

(If you are still confused, that’s okay. It’s less narratively important than I had originally planned 10+ years ago, but I’m here and working with what I got.)

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Comments

genovianprince

That's like 80% of what I was already thinking anyway, so I think you did a pretty good job! (Or I've read thousands of things in my lifetime and got really damn good at inferring intention within a narrative lol)

LukeOnTheBrightSide

As a reader, I definitely appreciate the handwavium that prevents a whole year of comic updates just to get to "...and that's why they can talk now!" It never felt confusing to me and I thought it was explained well in-comic - it's just been a little while since that showed up, so I think some people needed a reminder. If anything, "they speak too fast" could be taken pretty literally and still seem super relevant. I took that as implying that interspecies communication wasn't intuitive, but took less effort than something like a human learning a new language. That added a neat dimension to me - how hard did predators really try to communicate with prey? Was this something they just didn't know how to do, or was this more a case of something they didn't *want* to know how to do? Swift on page 337 says "prey will squeal and plead if you don't kill them quickly enough," and Red clearly feels some way about that. I don't want to read too much into the word "plead," but at the very least, I took that as some hint of predators having... perhaps a bit more mixed feelings than they'd admit to, and maybe understanding a bit more of prey communication/language than even they realize. Even if just from body language and context. I've been trying to improve my own writing and it's a good reminder that some details matter to the story I'm trying to tell, and some don't - and those just bog down everything. I like scifi stories, but if every story needed to spend half a novel just to explain *why* humans can talk to aliens, it wouldn't really help the story (unless the story is *about* learning to communicate). I think you've done a great job of showing how the communication matters without getting stuck over-explaining details that aren't story-relevant.

Waya

This reminds me a bit of the Firekeeper books. She's a human raised by what are rather large, intelligent wolves and it's explained that the animals all speak in a similar manner to what you're describing. A mix of sounds, scents, and body language. It's also translated into normal English text for when you're reading from her pov but when it's another human's pov they are baffled by how quickly she seems to communicate with her wolf friend.

Fluffy

those were amazing books... I'd argue two other good ones (by the same author David Clement-Davies) are The Sight and Firebringer, where animals CAN communicate... some find it easier than others due to specific stuff in the books (and it can come and go based on things like the rut), and another good one is The Firebringer Trilogy (Meredith Ann Pierce) where it takes some learning for unicorns to understand horses, but horses can understand humans and unicorns cannot. There's a lot of language barrier stuff in xenofiction that's really good and usually is broken down through exposure and patience.

Fluffy

I honestly already figured it was mostly about posture/gestures and scents since those are the big differences in mammal communications anyways. Sounds... Sounds are easy to translate in tone... but figuring out everything else? That's the hard part.

Gale Tazzin

Knowing that scent is part of the speech does recontextualize some of the early scenes when Rask arrives at the Hollow and the prey animals keep mentioning how bad he smells. Martens are naturally malodorous, and particularly so when agitated (which Rask certainly was when he thought he'd be impaled and/or defanged). So that was a one-way communication, where the Hollow could smell Rask's fear but he had no idea what they wanted from him.

teagangavet

Thanks! :] Re: what details matter/what doesn't I think the best advice in that vein I've ever gotten is that if you're bored/dragging your heels at the thought of writing a scene, maybe you don't need that scene. You can take whatever story nugget that scene was for and stick the important info/reveal/nugget somewhere else, into another scene. It keeps the narrative brisk and then if you have an editor or beta reader who is confused by something, you know right away where the thin spots are (because they told you). It's easier to add more info in, than find the places where you've overloaded it/bogged down your story, imo. I recently did a "this is boring" cut.. I had a scene where Rask was convincing Oren to talk to Swift, but I was bored writing it. It felt like "this meeting could be a memo." So, I cut it and instead summarized it all with Rask's "Like you said..." line on pg 382. Saved the salient/important info (Rask uses Oren's words against him) stuck it into the new scene, and now we can carry on into more interesting territory.

SAwatching

The reasoning works well for the comic medium, though I think the alternative route of having a language barrier to overcome could have led to some interesting places, as Rask and the other animals would have to put effort into teaching each other, leading to perhaps a closer relationship between them, but would most likely only work in a book format.