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Discussion Thread: Modern Toichographology episode is published! (Patreon)

Published:
2024-09-27 14:54:21
Imported:
2026-06

Content

New episode is published and ready to hear! Toichographology is the study of murals and last summer (right before I got really sick) I sat down with the wonderful Conrad Benner, who is an expert in the murals of Philadelphia, where graffiti was born.

Have you listened yet? Anyone now planning a trip to Philly for an art safari? Any favorite murals you've seen in other cities? I'm all ears and eyes.

Enjoy the episode, kiddos!

-Your Father of Pod, Alie Ann Ward

Files

Modern Toichographology (MURALS & STREET ART) with Conrad Benner - alie ward

Murals! Frescos! Graffiti! Street art! Philadelphia is the birthplace of graffiti and the mural capital of the world so we sit down with city historian, journalist, curator, and Toichographologist Conrad Benner to chat about public vs. private art, cultural movements, commissioned vs. um... un-commiss

Comments

Anna Thompson

Fort Worth has a huge trail/path system along our river that doubles as flood control. There are a ton of concrete blocks that house infrastructure for water levels or something. In the past 5 or so years the city has partnered with artists to paint the blocks which is amazing! They really brighten up what would otherwise be ugly blank spaces along the river

Jaqi McCarthy

This came at a great time! My hometown of Gloucester MA has been putting up amazing murals in the last few years. I am now going to look at them and appreciate them more!

Alie Ward

Oh that's lovely! And it actually helps people's mental health. That's great -- I'll look it up!

Alie Ward

That's great! Look up the artists and see if they have any backstory to them, or reach out and ask them! I'm sure they'd love to hear how appreciated the work is.

JENN 'Benthopelagic squirrel' ALVAREZ

As soon as I saw the topic, I immediately thought of Sarah! Also, omg FROG CALENDAR! Ok back to murals. I love public art! It gives me hope.❤️

Dylan V

I'm from Philly and grew up seeing the murals and street art and just thought every city was like that. This episode was awesome and taught me about the art I always took for granted. My favorite was the Whaling Wall (a giant watery scene featuring a whale). I would see it when my parents would drive me to the Franklin Institute, our awesome science museum!

David Fieni

Loved Conrad's discussions of public art and mural cultures. Philly is an amazing graffiti and urban art capital. A friend of mine took me to see a Cornbread original one night just around the corner from his house. It was gone 2 years later. The bit about Percy street using street art to "clean" up an alley way reminds me of the Set Setal ("Be clean, make clean") graffiti movement in Dakar Senegal, where the line "graffiti makes me clean" is an ethos for crews out there. This understanding of public art and graffiti is the exact opposite of the original police response in NYC in the 1970s, where graffiti was equated with urban blight, largely because of the predominance of Black and Puerto Rican writers involved in the scene. I'd love to hear another episode that focuses on the illegal side of things, the long historical view, women writers and artists, and different modes (so many kinds of graffiti: Roman, prison, gang, hobo...,). I have written a book (in search of a publisher), Nomad Grammatology, that deals with a lot of this, focusing on France and the MENA regions. I also teach classes on global graffiti at my SUNY college. Great episode!

Betsy Hoffmeister

I'm interested to hear the episode. My parents, in their mid 80s, are retired professional artists. We have long conversations about the graffiti in Seattle. There are talented graffiti artists painting elaborate murals on public spaces, and their are taggers. I am interested in the difference between art and tagging. What drives taggers to tag? How do they get up on the super high structures? How do they paint such enormous tags? Why do they tag over public art, on private homes? I'm gonna be honest -- I really dislike tagging. I heard a Wait-Wait Don't Tell Me with the Grandfather of Tagging who talked about sneaking into a zoo and tagging an elephant and it just made me really mad. And now there's tags all over Europe. Maybe this is a question for @David Fieni above!

Betsy Hoffmeister

Hey I just wrote a long question... that I probably should have written under this post. Curious on your take on my question. Cheers!

Wandering Wyatt

Really enjoying this so far! An FYI for travellers, some cities have graffiti tours - we did one in Ljubljana, Slovenia and it was so cool to hear about the politics, etc. They even had ones labelled with Braille. We have a local graffiti gallery here in Victoria BC https://www.tracksideartgallery.ca/

David Fieni

Yes, that elephant thing is upsetting. That's the famous "Cornbread" mentioned in my comment and in the episode. The thing about tagging is it is the quickest way of getting your mark or name out there. Graffiti artists usually start there. Anthropologists, criminologists, and others who study this stuff can become fluent in the different tags and letter styles, so much so that one, Susan Phillips, who wrote an amazing book called Wallbanging, drew a map of parts of LA where gangs tagged territory that was more accurate than the map created by the LAPD! Another thing about illegal graffiti is that it is a social indicator, meaning it can tell us a lot about populations willing to risk arrest -- or even falling from a great height. Risk and location are key parts of these cultures. For me, it can be hard to draw the line between art and crime. I often use the term art crimes.

Alli B

Do not listen to Modern Toichographology while in your car, because you’ll want to google all the murals and artists and streetsdept.com and doing that while driving may be hazardous to your health. I loved this! Conrad spoke passionately and does really know all. Philly is now on my short list of cities to visit and can’t wait to go see Common Threads and lots of other murals.

Joyclyn Vincent

In Brisbane there’s a particular mural on the back of a building that you can only see from the train. It’s called “The Fox and her Song” and it always makes me think of you, Alie.

Susan G

I live in Brisbane but I never catch the train. I just looked it up online and it is beautiful and also can see why it makes you think of Alie!

Anna

I’m listening to the pod rn, and I’m really fascinated with the intersection of murals and homelessnesss and gentrification. But, y’all were talking about how there was the light exhibition/mural called Electric Street, which was meant to deter people from using that area as a bathroom. And at the same time, this mural would be considered hostile architecture, which is a term that describes the use of architecture and built environments that are meant to guide public behavior (ie think of public benches with a arm bar in the middle or rocks under a bridge) I think this sort of falls under that idea that murals were originally meant to fix ‘broken windows’ behavior, rather than just addressing the issue, which in this case, is a lack of public bathrooms. Loved this pod ep! (ps, everyday on my way to work, i drive by a mural of a rooster, and that man looks deeply into my soul and knows all my secrets)

Rik

Last summer I visited an old friend in Detroit and she showed us around - the street art & murals were incredible! We were blown away, there is a great creative fibe going on there.

Lisa St

Haven't listened yet because life is so busy, but my fave mural artist is a local friend Chris Cart. Here's the mural in the small city he lives in, with people I know on it! https://www.chrisc.art/hallowell-mural/

Paulina Krasińska-Sroka

Wait, so those laughs in the background were Sarah? 😁 I thought it was a weird echo effect when maybe Alie moved a bit away from the microphone 😅 Anyways, great episode! It made me feel more favorably about street art culture. Although, I still don't get and don't like tagging... Maybe because in my country there seems to be no code of conduct and respect, like the one described in the episode. It looks more like turf wars and personal feuds, especially with tags.

Between Dumplings

Come have a look at murals in Chinatown! Amazing blend of ancient and new. Prescient commentary on the horror of gentrification.

Alie Ward

Yes! I hope she sells so many calendars!

Alie Ward

Oh that makes me so happy! And yeah, Philly is iconic on every block! You have to go visit Blatt's Auto next time you're there...

Alie Ward

Thank you so much for all of this! Perhaps we'll have to do a more in depth episode in the future! Now I have to go look up grammatology!

Alie Ward

Oh that's a great resource, thank you for sharing it!

Alie Ward

I hope you can find out more about the artists --- it's so cool to have that context about your surroundings!

Alie Ward

Ahahaha! Definitely check out the links on the website linked above and our instagram! The handle is @ologies of course...

Alie Ward

Googling asap. Tell the fox I say [fox noise]

Alie Ward

Conrad absolutely references how the greater issue is the need for accessible public restrooms. Here's a little transcript: Conrad: So, instead of people going back there to take a pee after they go to Pat’s and Geno’s, they're going back there to take selfies, and there's a whole other conversation about how we should have more public restrooms. That aside… Alie: Augh! Agreed. Conrad: I've written that too. I'm a freelance writer still for WHYY, which is our, like, NPR affiliate, I wrote a whole article about it. But it was a really interesting way to think about public safety. Like, can public art be used to create a safer street? And Percy Street has now become a walkable street with, like, maybe a half-dozen murals and they're kind of rotating. It's really interesting, Percy Street. "

Alie Ward

Oh great! Have you heard the episodes on Detroitology and Domicology? They talk about Detroit history and present and future, and Domicology addresses building abandonment and affordable housing. A great peek into the D.

Alie Ward

Do you ever note them in your dumpling tours??

Alie Ward

Wooooww! Have you seen Common Threads? They share some stylistic elements -- both huge and gorgeous!

Alie Ward

But yeah, interesting to hear Mural Arts founder switch years ago to "we're not anti-anything, but pro-art"

Rik

Domicology was fantastic! It so reminded me of her as she's turning her abandonment into home\art studio. Loved Toichographology!

Between Dumplings

I’d love to share some links to murals on my tour- how?

Ted Vician

Cards with QR codes?

Elizabeth 🌞

I was very excited for this episode, Alie! It did not disappoint. I fell in love with Philadelphia in 2019 when I met my fiance after he was in the city for a trade show for the week. As a vegan, I quickly discovered how amazing the vegan food scene is. As an art and history lover, I absolutely LOVE the murals I've seen walking around the city. Honestly, thank you for interviewing a local. I had been closely following the Philadelphia Museum of Art (PMA) for a few years until I learned of their union debacle. I have little interest in supporting them further, and you and your guest have given me some great ideas for next time I take Amtrak into Philly! Keep up the great work, my friend(s).

Jae Steinbacher

I’m not sure where it originated, but one of my favorite ways I’ve seen muralists get their art up is using a doodle grid! Alice Lee made a great video about it: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7WvR2oSZd0/?igsh=MXN6enB4dTVwbHFkaQ== And here’s an example by Pam Wishbow in the backyard of LA clay artist Leslie Levings (I’m sure if you asked nicely you could visit it!): https://www.instagram.com/p/CR4gTZND1Tx/?igsh=MTVkNm02dWF0enhnMg== Thanks for this episode, it was a lot of fun! If only Seattle taggers respected murals like folks in other cities 🥲

Emily Krieger

i love this ep on public art! very inspiring. prompted me to financially support some public art myself.

Jeanette-o-saur

I love murals and street art so much. Also I was totally in Philly recently and took 80 million pictures of murals and didn't even know I was in the mural capital (one of them)! Side sad for the shipping cost of frog facts to Canada. $20 for mailing a piece of paper 😭 I bought a $5 donation instead whilst grieving the facts which shall not be mine

Jeanette-o-saur

My partner just reminded me that he's going to see a friend in Boston soon and THE FROG FACTS SHALL BE MINE! ribbit

Rachael Gardner

Great episode! I didn't know I wanted to support public art, but I do! Request for dialectology

Channon Koty

I was in Philly last weekend and we got excited every time we saw a mural. I can't believe I didn't know about this episode. I would have forced everyone to listen😅

Heather Woodford

Ok so at the end of the Modern Toikographology Field trip Rpisode, Alie asked about next destinations for future field trips. I don't see a Patreon post for that episode yet, but didn't want to forget to post my thought so here goes: not to be creepy, but Dad Ward, you did say you would like to go to the entomology museum at UC Davis. As a Sacramentan, I suggested in the Ologies FB group that maybe we all do a group field trip there with the possibility of a meet & greet with in Dad Ward? A bunch of people responded excitedly to this potential opportunity! I am not sure if this museum is still on the list? And/or if Alie and/or other Ologies staff have seen that post? I know our Pod Dad is a busy human, and also everyone has the right to say NOPE, NO THANKS! So if I'm being creepy by suggesting this, please feel free to say so. The other Ologites and I would be happy to do a meet up without Dad Ward meet n greet. Just adding this thought in the hopes that it could be a possibility! 🤞🏻🦗🪲🦟🐜🐝🐞🦋🐛🐌 (Fun related fact - my boyfriend is a beekeeper and I often ask him to give me a bee fact if I'm bored or having a bad day!)