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Discussion thread: BURNOUT episode is live (Patreon)

Published:
2024-11-13 20:17:30
Imported:
2026-06

Content

Ergopathology episode is published and ready for your ears and it's all about burnout: who gets burned out, what professions see more burnout, why a tropical vacation won't fix it, who is immune to burnout, how to identify it in yourself and others, ADHD and autistic burnout, and the myths that being a dick to yourself will make you safer.

Have you listened yet? What did you think? Let's discuss.

All ears,

Your Dadward who encourages a life/work balance

Files

Ergopathology (BURNOUT) with Kandi Wiens - alie ward

Exhaustion! Numbness! Anger! You're stressed out. I get it. Let's fix it.

Comments

Leighanne Gray

The way i sent it IMMEDIATELY to all my stressy messy and depressy friends

Spicy Native

I enjoyed the episode a lot! It made me wonder though, when are we gonna get an episode about unions? The history of unions, unions now, etc. I hope we get an episode about unions one day!!

Alie Ward

I HOPE IT HELPS. Burnout is no joke, and it's like a garden that has to be weeded daily. Like, gotta get rest in deliberately even in small pieces or your body will straight up malfunction.

Kristin 🦦

I’m having to take breaks while listening to this one. This year has been hard and I worry that burnout is on the horizon if not already here. Time to reflect and make changes!

EDM

This is a multilayered one that hits home. Thank you, Alie! Also good to hear someone else wears a motivational slogan T-shirt under their presentation clothes. Mine is a T-shirt with Iggy Pop on it. To each her own rodeo.

EDM

And take this burnout thing seriously, folks. I didn’t rest and ended up disabled with me/CFS. Learn the skills and enjoy your life deeply and joyfully!

Kimberly

This is me just being picky as a nurse. But it annoyed me that there was a lot of discussion about burnout in with the doctors and not other healthcare workers. Burnout has dramatically increased in the nursing field and I’ve struggled with burnout myself. I recognize you can’t list all the professions that burnout is common in, but it did annoy me. Having said all that, I do love that there was an episode about burnout and I love that it specifically mentioned that the employer is the one that really is in charge of making the changes to truly combat burnout rather than the employee.

Dr. Niki

Well... This is timely

Lauren Cooper

First of all how dare you Second of all thanks hahaha 🥲

rowantree

This was such a lovely episode! It gave me a lot of hope to recover and prevent myself from getting burned out in the future, especially because I want to do hard things but don’t want to have it also suck. Thank you!

Vanessa Adams

Alie I send a long IG message, but TL;DR - I never connected more with anything as I did today. I RAVED about this episode to everyone I could —my therapist, my coworkers, my colleagues. As a veterinarian, it made me feel seen that you acknowledged our very unique type of burnout we face. From start to finish, this episode was a masterpiece. I wish I knew this all when I graduated instead of 14 years later! #NOMV

w.t. ketch

This feels like a personal attack Allie

princenocturnal

I've never clicked this fast om an episode 😂 This one hit close to home. I'm neurodivergent (ADHD, autism), trans, non-binary, queer, an activist, a psych major and a recovering perfectionist / workaholic. I didn't feel personally attacked because I had to really take a step back at the beginning of this year. I was so fucking depressed, anxious and burned out, it was really not it. I was miserable. Studying for 5 years (longer than it's usual due to Covid, transitioning and figuring my brain out + getting diagnoses) has been HARD. I also took on a lot of voluntary work and got really involved into lefty activism. That stuff is so important to me because the world needs to change and get better. At the same time I don't wanna feel as crappy as I used to. I'm much better now, went to therapy, took care of my depression and now I feel like a relatively normal person for the first time in my life. I still struggle with the guilt of taking time off sometimes. My brain can't rest unless I engage in fluffy special interests (saying fluffy because trauma is also a special interest and I can't / shouldn't learn about it in my time off 🥲) and I need time everyday to relax and unwind. I don't think that's specifically a neurodivergent issue. I related hard to the parts of the episode about autistic and adhd burnout. In spring I couldn't go through the week without 1 to 3 meltdowns. I just pushed myself too far. Aside from being neurodivergent and mentally ill anyone would have started to crumble after an intense period of three years doing activism while studying and last year I even had a job too. 🫠 I was not fine. I ak still not were I wanna be with my mental health. I still have trouble relaxing and get anxious easily but I'm working on taking on less stuff (like less meeting friends or people and doing all projects at once and more time to relax alone and with my cats). I'm also looking for therapy again since we didn't have the time to address my anxiety and trauma in group therapy. Sometimes it's just so hard to not *do* things. I am a doer. I like organizing events and engaging in my own silly projects. I wanna do all of them but have to stop my adhd ass to not do them all at once. 😅 Thank you so much for the episode. Btw Ologies is my favorite podcast and whenever I need stimulation during cleaning I put on an episode I haven't listened to yet.

Andy Pepper

So appreciated this episode AND the mention of the list of small things you check off every day. The Habitica platform is like that, and it changed. my. life. Big yes to gamifying the day’s tiny challenges.

Ani Gee

I'm in a neurodivergent employee network at work and we are actually putting together a session on burnout for next week! Perfect timing! 😉

taylor

just know that I'm in the same boat as you! trans, AuDHD, in a caring profession... burnout is all too real.

princenocturnal

It's comforting to hear that someone else feels the struggle too

Marc Rubin

This was one of the worst episodes of ologies I've listened to (and I've listened to nearly all of them). It was a combination of "no shit" science and advice that rivals tech bro nonsense. The ologist's comments about how working 70+ hour weeks is not really burnout but just being overwhelmed was disinengeous and disheartening. I was hoping to walk away from this episode with some handy, real-world advice as to how to avoid burnout, but instead got an earful about how meditation, better diet, good sleep, and plenty of exercise will fix everything. Yeah, no shit! That's like telling someone with depression to just start doing more of the things they enjoy. Or telling someone with ADHD to focus better.

Lillian Rolfe

I’ll have to relisten to the ADHD episode, but was there any discussion about cPTSD vs ADHD? There seems to be a lot of overlap and perhaps a matter of opinion if you get diagnosed one over the other.

Vanessa Adams

Maybe you need to read the transcript? There was lots of solid advice about tangible things people can do.

Levin Dotimas

Thank you Alie for this episode!! Much needed for sure. Also - I recently started cross-stitching again to decrease my screen time!!! It’s been so great

Zandra Lea

If anyone is looking for a gamified app version of Alie’s points list, I highly recommend the Finch app. It’s cute and engaging and prompts you to do breathing exercises and self-reflection, as well as rewarding you with items of clothing and furniture and micro-pets for your pet birb.

Bianca Estrada

Ali, thank you so much for the episode. I work 5 days a week and my other 2 days are spent in class. The only days off I have are when I’m forced to call out because my body simply can’t take it anymore. On top of that I’m a leftist political science major in a newly elected Trump government where I feel the need to fix the world but simply can’t. Your message at the end almost made me cry. This episode was much needed. 🫶🏽

Katie Hultman

Listening to this episode really has me thinking about how to mitigate burnout in school-aged kids, when they don't really get the autonomy to not take on more than they can sustain. Can we all just quit capitalism yet?

Emily Krieger

This was a public service, thank you!!

Diva Padilla

I’ve been trying to figure out what happened to me 6 yrs ago & why I can’t function. I had an emotional breakdown or something. This episode definitely explains a lot. What to do with that information…?… I’m not quite sure. My insurance ran out: I’m a displaced (aka: unemployed in GA) IATSE worker… buuut, at least I have some idea of what’s going on. Thank You both… or correction: everyone involved for this episode, Thank You so much!

Felipe Jimenez

I liked the topic, but I Wish it could have go a little deeper in the patophysiology, I still don’t understand what happens, what “breaks”.

Emily Krieger

why have we normalized exhausted doctors treating patients? Hard pass. No thank you. What the hell?

Emily Krieger

Why have we normalized exhausting ppl in any profession, actually....I don't want that for us.

Pattie Larson

Dealing with burnout right now so this was amazing timing! ❤️

Katie Murray

I second this. Felt a little overlooked as a nurse but I’m certain it wasn’t intentional; like you said, not every profession susceptible to burnout can be named and discussed in a 1-2 hr podcast episode. I think physician burnout is talked about more is maybe because it has a more public and visible effect? In the way that physicians are known by name but nurses aren’t. I still related to and identified with the parts of the discussion about physician burnout for sure. There could also be a (foolish) perception that when a doctor burns out it leaves a gaping hole in the fabric of the hospital but when a nurse burns out their coworkers just have to shoulder the burden of the additional work until a replacement is found (if it is at all).

Katie Murray

Saaaaame. I’m in the middle of a job transition to mitigate the partial burnout I’m already experiencing. Listening to this episode was difficult at times; I listen in 10-30 min bursts while driving and I opted for lighthearted music depending on where my head was at at the time.

Kimberly

I definitely don’t think it was intentional. But it does bother me about the physician burnout being talked about on such a larger scale than with nurses because while physicians struggle more percentage wise, nurses struggle more when comparing actual individuals rather than percentages. While I agree that our training isn’t as rigorous as physicians have it, we have other contributing factors that increase our risk of burn out. Such as being the ones that spend the full shift with a small number of patients and are more likely to intimately know a patient that dies. Not even counting the fact that nurses and CNA’s are the ones that are the ones at the bedside with the dying and are in charge of putting them in a body bag after they’ve died and dealing more intimately with their grieving loved ones. Plus, just like physicians, we’re pushed to our limits with workload and the stress of the environment. Just making it clear that while physician burnout is important, all other healthcare workers have burnout and are rarely mentioned compared to the physicians

Andy

I listened on my home stuck in Manhattan traffic. If driving for over 2 hours for a 22 mile trip doesn’t contribute to burnout, I don’t know what does.

Amy E Kirby

This is a topic I've been struggling with for nearly my entire professional life, but really amped up with COVID. I was a little puzzled by Dr. Wiens suggestion that one of the questions askers was overworked and not burned out. What's the difference? How do you, as the sufferer, know which is which? The best part was the secret. The point system is brilliant and I will be implementing it immediately. Of course the data nerd in me also started brainstorming a spreadsheet to track it. 🤦🏼‍♀️

The Other Maya

Thank you for this episode. I was on my way to a follow up Dr appt and they called and cancelled, telling me to go to the ER instead. I was really irritated because that didn't line up with my plans for the day and seemed really unnecessarily dramatic. Here I am, walking around fully functional and you're telling me to skip out on work and go to the hospital? So I went back to my desk and saw that this episode had dropped and the first thing I heard was a woman talking about working through a major medical event - so I went to the ER and found out I actually have a very serious thing happening that's been going on for months that my primary care team missed because of the methods they were using. The timing could not have been better, because I'm also coming back from a pretty major burnout last year that honestly I've been trying to figure out. It's hard to find the beginning of where this started, and I think the only answer is "years in the making".

Melissa Berger

Shared with my coworkers in refugee resettlement as we move into a new but familiar difficult political landscape.

Ian Mitchell

Hey there: A long time listener and huge fan of the show. A number of episodes have been very helpful to my life However, I felt that I should comment on the beginning of this episode, which is I think more alarmist than it needs to be. I understand that you have a cardiology episode upcoming and as always, you should check with a trusted source rather than some internet rando. For background, I am an emergency physician (an emergentologist, if you will), a clinical associate professor at the University of British Colombia with a special interest in ketamine. I am on the board of the Ketamine Assisted Therapy Association, which aims to inform professionals and their governing bodies on the use of ketamine in an outpatient setting. Among the concerns about ketamine is that it can lead to a transiently elevated blood pressure and many are concerned unnecessarily about this effect. As you can imagine, I see many people in the emergency department who are concerned about their elevated blood pressure and don’t really need to be there. The fear around elevated blood pressure drives unnecessary emergency visits and cost. Thankfully, we have relatively new guidance in the form of The Management of Elevated Blood Pressure in the Acute Care Setting: A Scientific Statement From the American Heart Association from August, 2024. To start, terminology matters. The diagnosis of hypertensive emergency requires acute organ damage (for example, confusion, shortness of breath, chest pain) and should be treated in the emergency department. Severe elevated blood pressure without symptoms can be treated by primary care physicians or specialist within weeks. From the AHA: Hypertensive emergency involves acute target-organ damage and should be treated swiftly, usually with intravenous antihypertensive medications, in a closely monitored setting. Specifically, it is defined by any symptom, sign, or diagnostic finding indicative of acute damage, including but not limited to injuries to the brain (eg, hypertensive encephalopathy, intracranial hemorrhage, and acute ischemic stroke), heart (eg, acute myocardial infarction, unstable angina, acute left ventricular failure with pulmonary edema), large vessels (dissecting aortic aneurysm), kidneys, and the microvasculature. Microvasculature manifestations may include conditions such as high-grade retinopathy, acute kidney injury, or microangiopathic hemolytic anemia and thrombocytopenia. Historical terms such as hypertensive crisis (markedly elevated BP, eg, SBP/DBP >180/110–120 mm Hg, with or without new or worsening target-organ damage) and hypertensive urgency (markedly elevated BP without evidence of new or worsening target-organ damage) fail to acknowledge the nuances of treatment decisions and, through the use of subjective emotive language such as crisis and urgency, may encourage unnecessary antihypertensive treatment. Asymptomatic elevated inpatient BP is much more common than hypertensive emergency, yet the optimal strategies for managing BP in this setting remain unclear. Despite the lack of data, treatment in these circumstances is common. Treatment may be influenced by historical factors such as the emotive label of hypertensive crisis or hypertensive urgency and health-system factors such as vital sign alarms, automated clinical decision alerts, nursing notifications, and standardized pro re nata (PRN) order sets for BP measurements above a certain threshold. Recent observational studies have suggested potential harms associated with treating asymptomatic elevated inpatient BP, which brings current practice into question. Although most patients may not require treatment for asymptomatic elevated inpatient BP, it is plausible that benefit may outweigh risk in certain groups. Specifically, best practices for patients with persistent markedly elevated inpatient BP readings (ie, SBP/DBP >180/110– 120 mmHg) who have a history of high outpatient BPs may include initiating or intensifying antihypertensive medication during their admission. In addition, it may be reasonable to initiate or intensify antihypertensive medications in those with persistently high BP or persistently uncontrolled BP, as well as those at a high risk for or with a history of CVD. In summary, the current state of evidence suggests that treating asymptomatic elevated inpatient BP should generally be the exception, not the rule. Future studies are needed to further clarify whether there is clinical benefit for patients with markedly elevated hypertension without evidence of new or worsening target organ damage The 2013 American College of Emergency Physicians clinical policy discourages antihypertensive medication for asymptomatic elevated inpatient BP in the ED, but initiating oral therapy in the ED at discharge to home is supported by the evidence for some patients. Here are the relevant passages from the ACEP policy: 2. In patients with asymptomatic markedly elevated blood pressure, does ED medical intervention reduce rates of adverse outcomes? Level C recommendations. (1) In patients with asymptomatic markedly elevated blood pressure, routine ED medical intervention is not required. (2) In select patient populations (eg, poor follow-up), emergency physicians may treat markedly elevated blood pressure in the ED and/or initiate therapy for long-term control. [Consensus recommendation] (3) Patients with asymptomatic markedly elevated blood pressure should be referred for outpatient follow-up. [Consensus recommendation] Finally, it is generally accepted that the rapid lowering of markedly elevated blood pressure in the asymptomatic patient has the potential to do harm. However, in selected social or clinical situations (eg, poor follow-up, limited access to care, older patients, black patients), emergency physicians may choose to initiate treatment for markedly elevated blood pressure in the asymptomatic patient before discharge to gradually lower the blood pressure and/or initiate long-term control Unfortunately, people still worry about “blowing a gasket”, despite the fact that humans were not build in factories. Blood pressure is an important long term issue, but it is important to reassure people that acute consequences are very rare. Yours, Ian Mitchell, MD, CM, FRCP

Rosie S.

lmao @ the description of Gritty 😂

Anton Kleynscheldt

I'm sure it has been asked already, but does anyone know of a person who's an expert in Autistic burnout?