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Discussion: Let's talk about the Pomology ep! (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-18 22:01:32
Imported:
2026-06

Content

APPLES IS UP, you hungry beasts. Bite into Pomology with facts from professor, apple expert and Cornell university geneticist, Dr. Susan K. Brown. As I worked on this episode I have never craved apples so badly.

As fellow Northern Hemispherians head off to u-pick orchards, this episode will arm you with weird historical facts, pop culture trivia, a genetics crash course, and Pomological appreciation.

Also I wanna know what your favorite apple is and why. Or are you … Team Casey?

Shining one on my thigh,

Ol’ Granny Wardsmith

Files

Pomology (APPLES) with Dr. Susan K. Brown - alie ward

Green, yellow, striped, red, shiny, russet. Tart, sweet, sour, crunchy. Big, small, wild, heirloom, cultivated. How will you like them apples? Very much, once you hear all about the fascinating backstory of how an apple got into your lunch with one of the world's finest pomologists and geneticists,

Comments

Hope J 🏳️‍🌈

Timely episode as I bought apple cider (non-alcoholic) from the farmer’s market today. Great episode!

Abby Grieb

The best apple is definitely a Honeycrisp. Can’t wait to listen!!

Nina Eve Z.

1 vote for MacIntosh here, specifically grown in New England (CT/Mass). I love Mr. Clapp but I believe he is misguided about apples. Also, I think maybe Alex maybe helped tone down the hatred a bit on Completely Arbortray?

Maria Armero

I like my apples very crunchy and tart. Granny Smith is probably the one I almost always choose to buy. It was such a fun episode. Thank you, pod dad!

Alie Ward

Do you know we have a CIDEROLOGY one? alieward.com/ologies/ciderology

Alie Ward

I got an email from a university in Minnesota fan pissed at me for not interviewing the Honeycrisp people instead. Folks are as passionate about their pomology as they are sports teams, and I appreciate the passion.

Alie Ward

Did you listen until the end of Apples? We've got a little surprise...

Alie Ward

Maria, we have a soul bond because SAME. It's the sharp cheddar of the apple world

Rick T

Being from upstate NY originally, it was exciting to hear all the local callouts, particularly Geneva, quite possibly referencing a place I used to work at. I listen to a lot of Buffalo Bills talk radio and they mention Snapdragon apples all the time

Chandler Witherington

My fav are called limbertwig! They are apparently an heirloom variety originating from North Carolina (where I live). They are the perfect mix of sweet and tart, crunchy, thin skin, juicy but not TOO juicy. The only apple I will willingly eat without peanut butter or baked into a pie. Other apples I get tired of after like three bites lol

Melissa Hart

Please tell me why I just spent five hours in my kitchen so I could can five quart-sized jars of my backyard apples for winter pie? Five hours, people. :)

Sydney Koenig

As a lover of apples I loved this episode. I love all apples (except red delicious obvi) but my favorite would have to be honey crisps or pink ladies! Also, I’m planning on getting an Apple tattoo soon!! Which Apple should I get???

Alie Ward

What was your work like? Did you have to climb 12 foot ladders with 60lb bags?!?

Alie Ward

Are they hard to get or do you find them at orchards and farmers' markets?

Alie Ward

How did you feel about her backyard orchard advice?!

Alie Ward

AAaah, an apple tattoo! That's wonderfully... LudaCrisp. That is a tough choice on which apple. What kind of style tattoo?

Alie Ward

also Limbertwig would be an amazing name for an infant child.

Chandler Witherington

I get them at my local farmer's market! I've never seen them in stores. I think they are kind of niche and maybe don't transport well. Which is a shame because they're SO GOOD

Sydney Koenig

Fine line realism! No color though to match my other tattoos

Alie Ward

This weekend I'm headed to Connecticut to see family and if they don't take me to an orchard I'm going to smash all their dishes

JENN 'Benthopelagic squirrel' ALVAREZ

Life advice- particularly the Pomodoro method. Lemme tell ya, I've learned SO much from you! Even P-22 is a topic for my next assignment 🙃

Breahna Lesemann

Apples always make me feel hungrier after I eat them. Is there a reason for that or am I just unique?

Cynthia

The Mutsu/Crispin apple is my favorite, but it’s not grown here in Minnesota (home of the Honeycrisp)

Abby Grieb

I might need to try a Snapdragon now!

Nancy Weber

I love Macouns and Empires. Also Libertys. Sweet, but not Honeycrisp sweet- I'm actually not a fan of those. Some of the old heirlooms are delish, but I don't know the names. I live in Vermont- lots of sweet little orchards! Thanks for your awesome show, btw!

Mike

What is the best apple for a pie? And why is it Macs?

Therese Enders

I found it overly pessimistic! I mean, I can agree with her point that there's no need to grow them if you don't want to, and I'm not an organic-only stan by any means, but I don't think you need to spray or that it needs to be a big production! It guess it depends on your goals, though. If you are like me and don't mind feeding the local wildlife and like putting food up, an apple tree isn't a bad proposition. Probably depends on your neighborhood, too, now that I think about it.

Alie Ward

Maybe you're a fast metabolizer! Or a higher insulin response to the sugar? I have no idea!

Alie Ward

Minnesotans have some REAL Honeycrisp pride, and I respect that

Alie Ward

Do you visit the orchards each year? In LA when you head out to one in mid-October it's still 85 degrees

Alie Ward

Granny Smith would like to wrestle you

Alie Ward

I mean the original ghost of Granny Smith, not me, Granny wardsmith.

Mike

Mac can kick granny in the behind!!!!

Alie Ward

Wow wow wow if any apples fall on your head, you have pissed off a ghost

Mike

Note to self avoid Apple trees

AkaiRin

My favourite would be a Gala. Just got so much crunch!

Nita Chen

Greetings, where did the saying an apple a day keeps the doctor away come from?

Alie Ward

We talk about it in the episode, which is up wherever you get podcasts!

Nita Chen

Greetings, Ooh! I missed this one I think!! I’ll have to check! Thank youuuuu

Halle M.

I loved this episode!! My personal favorites are golden delicious apples and opal apples. I’ll occasionally eat an envy apple if I’m feelin extra fancy!

Jacob Paul

I’m in grad school studying horticulture and just took a pomology class this past summer. Been waiting for this ep for years— thanks Alie!!!!!

April Carter

Opals are my favorites, but I also like honeycrisp, cosmic crisp, and gala if they're crisp.

Tiane Scott

I'll be honest last week I sarcastically asked my bf if he wanted to go apple-picking bc it felt like so many ppl use it as an instagram photo op........ and I don't know how I'm going to tell him that we're going apple-picking now that my interest has been ignited hahaha

Susan G

My favourite apple is the pink lady! It is just the right amount of sweet for me. But I can never eat an apple on its own, it makes me hungrier than before I ate it! I always have to eat it with a but butter or vegan cheese or something.

Sophia Putman

My childhood home was located near this forest which had an abandoned apple orchard within it. My cousins and I would climb up those trees for hours, and would fill our rolled shirts up with these gnarly, wormy apples before going home to cook them. I've never tasted better applesauce in my LIFE!!

Becky Stenberg

Pink Pearl! Bright crimson inside. And Gravenstein for flavor & crunch

Patricia Brewster

It was Great! 5 generations in apple country, Camino. I love apples and learn more all the time. Thank you for that👍

Jim Ewan

Granny Smith is my favourite cause I like apple sauce and apple pie. However, where I live in Australia, the Granny Smith does not have the tartness that it has in the USofA where I grew up. (For eating raw, the Fuji.)

Dicken Crane

What fascinates men about apples is how they make water safe to drink. Am I correct that back in the day most apple trees were planted for cider, fermented and could be stored and safely drank later (no breathalyzers back then)?

Steve Buck

I love this episode! I live in western NY and never realized how regional some apples are. My daughter just went to school in Pittsburgh and asked for me to get her a massive amount of Empire apples to bring back with her from fall break. That would likely be our favorite. The episode does make me miss a good friend of mine that passed away a few years ago. Also a pomologist, also went to Cornell and used to run a research farm near Rochester. Ironically his last name was Palmer so I guess it fits?! Thank you for this awesome episode, aside from being incredible in its own right, it’s really helped me remember him and the great tidbits he would give us all when he talked about apples.

Nathan-Andrew

Why? Because awesome! I salute your wise winter prep.

Nathan-Andrew

Same here, and I know of at least one other person who experiences the same effect. So sometimes, I’ll eat an apple as an appetizer.

Nathan-Andrew

I had my fingers crossed that when you *finally* got around to pomology, you’d pick someone from Cornell. I live in walking distance from the school’s orchard, you see, and my local grocery sells the department’s apples! We do have an embarrassment of appley riches hereabouts. I just made some applesauce (destined for a cake) out of Northern Spy, Esopus Spitzenberg, Razor Russet, Bramley’ Seedling, and Smokehouse apples. And I have a pile of Orleans Reinette for snacking. Other ones I love are Cox’s Orange Pippin, and Roxbury Russet, plus the tooth-breaking Arkansas Black! Honeycrisp are nice enough, but I find them rather one-dimensionsal. Decent for a supermarket apple. A quick aside. When I was touring Wales and England, I saw countless abandoned apple trees. Many were heavy with fruit, which littered the ground. It hurt my heart to see - especially the ones being ignored in peoples’ yards. Clearly, the trees were not being tended in any way, and certainly were not sprayed. I collected (and enjoyed) many, as long as they weren’t on someone’s property. Saved me a good bit of money on food expenses. I think only a couple had worms, which were easily evicted.

Stacy Snyder

The best apple I ever had I bought from a farmer's truck at an overlook somewhere in the Blue Ridge Mountains about 30 years ago. It was crisp, juicy, and so flavorful. I know I will never know what kind it was and I will never find it again. The Holy Grail of apples.

Nancy Weber

Not EVERY year.. but many. Last year I actually picked plums at a favorite local orchard that's been diversifying. They have mostly apples, but have added many other fruits! I took a grafting workshop there a few years ago, which was very cool. Also, they have a tree sale each spring. (I have purchased 2 pears, 2 peaches, and a cherry!) It's a pretty awesome orchard. If you're ever in VT :https://www.champlainorchards.com/

Nancy Weber

85 in October, sounds sweaty!

Olivier Calas

What can we do at the consumer level to bring some of the incredibly delicious less-known apple varieties to our smaller stores and farmers markets? So tired of the standard galla/fuji/golden and red delicious and granny smith piled sky high in our supermarkets when there are scores of different apples growing in smaller orchards….

Ja Jo: Art & Craft

Crab apples are my favorite to snack on. It's so surprising to learn that so many people think they're inedible. My family eats them and other tart fruits like green mangoes with either a dry dip that's sweet, spicy, and nutty in flavor or a wet dip that's briny, spicy, and sweet.

Melissa Hart

Honestly, it's not that difficult to grow apples. We have four dwarf apple trees in partial sun beside a hive of honeybees. We don't spray, and we get a lovely crop each year. I thinking giving a couple a backyard orchard (or four dwarf trees) is a wonderful idea. My husband and I canned our apples last weekend, and we're still married. :)

T Noz

Had this podcast in my queue when I started cooking down a "pot's worth" of apples off my 4 trees this morning into apple butter. Was VERY interested in hearing what Dr. Brown had to say about caring for apple trees (need to work on de-worming my trees for next season). Appreciated the advice enough to sign up as a Patreon. Will call this the "Alie Ward" batch of apple butter.

Britt Carp

We had an apple tasting with my preschool class a few years ago that included snap dragons, which I had never heard of, and they were the class fave! I believe my coworker purchased them at Aldi, but I haven’t seen them since. (I live in North Carolina)

Ann Marie Wierzbicki

My favorite apples are the ones that I can Harvest from trees that have gone wild and aren't picked. This year has been an exceptionally good one and I have a freezer full of applesauce and I'm very tired of making apple cakes. It's time to switch to pumpkin for baking.

Joyclyn Vincent

Jazz apples are my current favourite. I wish we had access to all the different varieties and I’d love to try a Snapdragon! Also, a police officer at a random breath testing stop told my mum that eating a lot of black licorice can show as a false positive.

JMash

I'm late to the game and didn't get to ask my question...Which is-Why do the apples make me BURP? Without fail I eat the apple then there's one big 'ole apple burp. Bizarre, and intriguing.

Patent Plastics

I loved the show but I feel like I need to push back against the Amygdalin comment. While she was correct they Laetrile (b17) was investigated for anti-cancer properties, it was never shown to be effective in a properly controlled study and it continues to be illegally marketed as a secret cancer cure. It is fraudulent and the fact that it lives on in meme form is a real shame. You cannot treat or cure cancer with Laetrile / Amygdalin / Vitamin B17 (those are all the same thing).

Patent Plastics

And I know she said she’s not a medical doctor but I can’t let a piece of quackery pass on a popular science communication podcast. I worked at NCI for 10 years on leukemia and breast cancer in my post doctoral phase of life and lost a friend to cancer quackery. I will push against it as much as I can everywhere I can.

Jill Gregory

I listened to this ep while making apple sauce and apple pie from fruit I picked at a farm in NY state. Very meta. I have a new favorite this year: Pixie Crunch. I got them on the farm, don't know if they are in stores. They are ah-mazing.

Will Clark

Any orchard recommendations around Hendersonville NC?

Gavin Roach

Lovely episode (I mean, they all are, but I'll definitely rerun this one, with or without arm wrestling, and my bet's on Doc Brown). Every couple of days I'll remember as I eat the apple core that I'm definitely not supposed to eat the apple core, and then I smile and think of all the other things I'm not supposed to do. So there's that. Anyway, thank you!

Hannah Pimley

It was so great! To 1) hear from someone in my industry (plant breeding) and 2) have it be a woman. And she brought up one of my heroes, Barb McClintock! 💕 Most of all, I am SO grateful she brought up the fact that organic does NOT mean no pesticides are used. I try to bring this up all the time, and it’s so important to know, but no one does! Also, I’m trying this from my research combine for commercial field corn breeding research right now.

J.J. Starr

I still love a fresh and super cold red delicious apple from the crisper drawer, and I do not care about the haters. Also, pom de pin is how you say pinecone in French, and inside them are many little fruits and the Austrians turn this fruit into an absolutely scrumptious liqueur called Zirbenz.

Danny Raines

ROCK ON Ali! The Oligies Podcast brings me joy on the regular but this episode was especially fascinating and fun. So much so that I finally got off my ass to sign up as a Friend on Patreon. Looking forward to listening to many future episodes with my fellow nerds out there. You are all amazing in your own way. Danny Small Bowel Ologist (Enterologist)

Alie Ward

Do you have a fructose intolerance perhaps??

Alie Ward

Thank you for letting me know! I may be able to edit and re-publish the episode

Alie Ward

Barb was a boss, man. I loved her history. Have you seen her microscope and corn at the Smithsonian?

Alie Ward

No waaaaay! I've never heard that!

Megan Lynch

'Newton Pippin' is my favorite apple - if you're older Gen X like me, this was the green apple in supermarkets in California when you were a kid, NOT 'Granny Smith'. It's also one of the apples behind the taste of Martinelli's Sparkling Apple Cider. Unfortunately, it's grown less and less because the areas where it was grown have been turned to vineyards now. Which is the case for California 'Gravenstein's as well. Very happy to have an episode on the (apple portion) of Pomology!

Hannah Pimley

No, I haven’t! But as soon as I heard that, I was like I gotta go. I live on near-ish on the east coat, so when harvest is over, I’m going!

Aspen

Loved this episode! I didn’t realize how little I knew about the different apple species out there. I tried a snap dragon apple for the first time a few days ago after hearing you both talk about it, and I have to say that it’s probably the best apple that I’ve ever eaten. I have a strong need to now try all the different varieties that I can get my grubby little hands on!

JMash

Not that I'm aware of. It's the only thing I eat that consistently does this to me. The only two things I can think of are that 1-it's some allergy related thing, or 2-I so enthusiastically eat apples that I'm gulping down huge amounts of air. Anyway, I guess it's my cool party trick.

Danny Raines

This is related to the volume of air swallowed when eating an apple. Most of the air in the stomach comes from swallowing air. Danny

Allison R Hutt

I'm obsessed with this episode. I'm a graduate student in a lab that does a lot of quantitative genetics, and TA and grade for the evolution class that my advisor teaches for undergrads. I'm always recommending podcasts to students I mentor or TA because it's such a fun and engaging way to interact with topics that students can find boring or overwhelming. I am totally planning to recommend this episode to students who are learning about quantitative genetics and QTL mapping- Dr. Brown does such a great job with her explanation!

JMash

That makes the most sense. Apples are floofier than other fruit.

Jacob Brandon

Listening to this episode - I feel like I need to go on an apple tasting - so many apples all those varieties you talk about - I am put off apples due to the fact that I dont like the supermarket varieties here they are Brayburn, Pink Lady, Granny Smith - please I need some recommendations

The Farming Linguist

There are so many awesome apples at the farmers' markets in my area - might be in yours too!

The Farming Linguist

Such a gem of an episode and guest! Made me sad though that she said that you DEFINETELY have to spray. We have multiple apple trees on my farm planted by previous owners. We don't know variety names and we barely ever do any tree care (although I'm sure they are screaming for a pruning, but only 24 hours in the day, and apples are not our main crop). They definitely never get sprayed, never even get watered. YET! They give amazing apples. Do they yield as much as apple trees on commercial farms? NO Are they perfectly shaped and colored? NO (but sometimes you get an apple shaped like a butt, and I mean, come on! Who doesn't want that?) Are they all bug and scab and blemish free? ALSO NO! I understand that commercial producers need their produce to live up to all kinds of standards of conformity for shipping, packaging, storage, and other reasons - but I really wanna push back on the fact that a backyard apple grower (or even small market farmers like us) should need to conform to those same standards. Grow those apples, and if you don't want to, don't spray them!

zanabanana

Since I listened to this episode I’ve been on the hunt for a Snap Dragon Apple.. no luck! I live in the Bay Area, CA… do I have to go to New York to find one?

Martha Lowry

100% I am an apple farmer, and I do spray, but all organic, and I don't spray the scary stuff she's talking about. Mostly kelp and other immune boosters. AND I have amazing crop yields. Anyhow, the episode was good, but she's off the mark on how to grow or not organically, and you should definitely try growing apples at home. It's fun and it's easy and even if you get less apples than the big growers you'll still have an awesome time and the fruit will just taste better picked that fresh.

lauren reynolds

I listened to this episode when it aired and then this morning at my grocery store what did I find?! Snapdragon apples! I audibly gasped and snatched up a bag! What a fun stumbled upon treasure! Alie, Thanks for making the seemingly mundane into amazing mind blowing daily discoveries and adventures!

Susan Singley

Wegman's, on the east coast has Snapdragon Apples! Sorry, I don't know where to do on the west coast to find them Good luck