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Come to an island and meet Dr. Madhur Anand, a global change and climate ecologist who works on narrative models to figure out how we human creatures relate to our ecosystem. She is also an internationally lauded author and "ecopoet" -- a literary genre that combines science and art. 

We got along instantly and this is a wonderful chat about mitigating human impact on climate change, as well as exploring aspects of identity. 

If you like scicomm, or the merging of art and science -- or just need a pep talk to feel more like yourself -- this one was made for you. 

So enjoy: Environmental models, scientists who are poets, novelists who are scientists, forest beetles, carbon stability, human motives, hip waders, technology meets nature, absurdity, overcoming writer’s or scientist’s' block, and how accepting ourselves can be contagious. 

Anyone here a poet? Or have a favorite poet? Or a favorite poem from this episode? 

Okay enjoy, friends.

Your Father Alie Ward

Files

Theoretical & Creative Ecology (SCIENCE & ECOPOETRY) with Dr. Madhur Anand - alie ward

Environmental models! Poetry! Scientists who are poets! Novelists who are scientists! Art + science = an actual -ology. Creative Ecologist, climate scientist, theoretical ecologist, author and celebrated poet Dr. Madhur Anand sits on a porch with me on an island to chat about storytelling,

Comments

bug

I am not good with words at all even though I have a lot of feelings specifically about the environment I wish I could interpret into poetry. I try to make visual art to express my feelings though. I really love this topic and I'm excited to see the discussion and hear the episode!!

Sarah Railey King

Amanda Gorman and “The Hill We Climb!” It was the one that really started up my interest in poetry.

sophia

This is amazing!! I’m currently a student majoring in environmental science and policy, minoring in sustainability, and getting a certificate in science communication! Scicomm is awesome and under appreciated!!! SO excited for this episode!!🥳💕

Lizzy Martinez

This was so fun fo listen to! Also, Alie and Dr. Madhur Anand, thank you for sharing that theses documents are publicly available. I was able to locate my late mom's 2013 dissertation for her PhD in Nursing at UNLV. She passed in 2017 from ALS, so this part of her incredible legacy being available to anyone and all is amazing. And I hope anyone who gets their PhD feels like they have made history, including today's ologist Dr. Madhur Anand.

mariia k

this is so exciting, i never knew there was a mix between science and poetry, thank you alie for letting us in on the most exciting stuff ever!!

Roxanna McLaughlin

My favorite poet lately is Chris La Tray (Little Shell tribe, Métis, and author of One Sentence Journal and Descended from a Travel-worn Satchel). Chris says so much in just a few words, his writing brings tears to my eyes. His newest book will be released in August (Becoming Little Shell: Returning Home to the Landless Indians of Montana) and I can hardly wait. Here is one: Barred owl on a cedar branch crouches, stares, and takes to the air directly over my head.

Roxanna McLaughlin

And the Awesome Possum Journals edited by Angela Boyle. Where art and natural science dance together with delight through the talents of a variety of artists and writers. Oh my!!!

Hope J 🏳️‍🌈

Didn’t know what to expect from this episode but it was truly enjoyable! I also loved the sounds of nature that you hear in the background accompanying this episode. I really enjoy J. Drew Lanham’s work which can be heard through BirdNote

Bekah Jordan

This is so beautiful, thank you for sharing about your mom!

Bekah Jordan

As a poet who loves learning and sciences…I am STOKED for this episode! 😍 S/O to Mary Oliver, saint of nature poetics! Fitting with the season here in Massachusetts, I recommend “Starlings in Winter”

Heather Leonard

When my grandma passed, I was given a few of her things. One was a book of poetry called Earth Prayers from Around the World edited by Elizabeth Roberts and Elias Amidon. It still had her tissue bookmark between a couple untitled poems by Robinson Jeffers and John Wright. She always wrote to us like she was writing a poem.

Betsy B

One of the things I think we desperately need is a vision of what the future could look like so we can work towards it. (all we have are dystopias...zombies, apocalypse, in media and a lot of art (Alexis Rockman)). What, if any, poetry/art have you found that can inspire a future we can work towards?

Alie Ward

Oh I hope you like it! Science drawings were my first love

Alie Ward

Aaahhh, yes. What a memorable one

Alie Ward

Oh great! Her work is so different from most scicomm, but I think shares so many values

Alie Ward

Oh that is so wonderful. I'm so glad you found it and could reconnect to her through her work

Alie Ward

"Ecopoetry" was a new term to me, too!

Alie Ward

Gorgeous, thanks for the intro to his work <3

Alie Ward

Ooooh, gotta look this up, too!

Alie Ward

Isn't that lovely to hear the birds? Especially while chattin gabout her poems -- about birdsong!

Alie Ward

Thank you for that recc! I hope you love this one!

Alie Ward

Oh she must have even thought in verse. That's so great to hear about her.

TaylorW

!!! I’ve never been a poet but they keep coming out after long days of dissertation writing (attempts) Heartened to hear I’m not alone in this otherwise strange (to me) coping mechanism. Though I’m no poet I’m inspired to lean in and maybe add one to my final draft! ✨🙌💫 thanks for this Alie! (And Madhur!)

Nevena Georgieva

Well, aren't you two a breath of fresh forest air? It makes so much sense to me that an ecologist, who understands the interconnectedness of all beings better than most, would seek out poetry. What if art and science are like tree roots and fungi, thriving via a symbiosis of ideas and inspiration?

Jeanette-o-saur

I am a geologist who thoroughly enjoys writing poetry. IMO science and poetry just make sense together. Having multiple lexicons to draw on and sooo many more analogies to use is pure gold when writing. Mineral pun intended

Sue Brooks

This episode reminded me of a book I received as a gift. It is a collection of short essays and poems about trees. The really cool part is the author has transformed each entry into a picture that transcribes each letter into a particular tree - tree poetry, in essence! The book is "The Language of Trees: A Rewilding of Literature and Landscape" by Katie Holten.

Megan Bolton

I’m finishing up my PhD on Wednesday next week! This episode reminded me that I can mix my research with my creativity. My brain is ready for a small break but I’m excited to continue and think through how I can mix the things I love. Thanks for this!

JeFF Stumpo

Starting to listen now. I am actually a poet (five chapbooks through several small presses plus the assorted journal publications). And oddly enough, my first academic article to appear in a legit journal was an ecological examination of the video game EverQuest (both in-game and in real life). I'm really looking forward to this one.

Brittney Corrigan

I was so excited to listen to this episode (I love Anand's work!) as yes, I'm an ecopoet myself. For years I had planned to be a marine biologist, but I ended up following my love for literature instead, though my writing is heavily influenced by science. I was particularly interested in the discussion at the end of the episode about nature poetry vs. ecopoetry, and I wanted to add some additional thoughts to that distinction. In addition to ecopoetry breaking down some of the divisions between the human and more-than-human worlds in a way that nature poetry doesn't often do, ecopoetry also has a quality of witness and speaking truth about what is happening to - and what we as humans are doing to - the planet. Some of my favorite contemporary ecopoets are Elizabeth Bradfield (who is also a naturalist!), Camille Dungy, Claire Wahmanholm, Hila Ratzabi, Aimee Nezhukumatathil, Nickole Brown, and Anne Haven McDonnell (and there are so many more). For folks who are interested, I highly recommend The Ecopoetry Anthology from Trinity University Press for a broad view of work in the genre. And I'd love to connect with other ecopoet Ologites here! My most recent collection of poetry is called Solastalgia, and you can find me at https://brittneycorrigan.com/ if you'd like to be in touch!

Chelsea Wilck

As a poet/songwriter who often thinks I should have gone into a science career, this episode was just SCRUMPTIOUS!!! I seriously had never considered the thought of blending science and creativity in this sort of way, and it really was eye-opening. You two really got me ready for spring, this episode was a much-needed breath of fresh warm air. Plus we love a Catalina shoutout (I'm not from there, just an Angeleno who loves Catalina dearly.) Bonus points for birds chirping!!! ALSO ALSO Alie if you are reading this, you must go to Descanso Gardens and write some ecopoetry. When I was a kid I went there and wrote some Haiku, and it was a life changing experience I remember to this day.

Brittney Corrigan

I also am a huge fan of J. Drew Lanham. Check out the online publication Terrain.org for more ecopoetry and writing that is at the intersection of art and science, including work by Lanham (he's highly involved with their work).

Oren Simchy

During my time as an English major, I took this course that was something like “environmental literary criticism.” One of my all-time favorite classes. We’d read everything from short stories to poems (as well as the occasional nonfiction). Can’t wait to listen to this episode! Any kind of respite from doomscrolling and climate despair is welcome.

rikspieks

The birds chirping in the background!! 😭😭❤️❤️❤️

J.J. Starr

I’m a practicing poet currently in a residency at the Fine Arts Work Center in Provincetown MA, and I’m so excited about this week’s guest! Some favorite eco poets of mine: Aimee Nezhukumatathil (recently, her book Oceanic), her friend and writing pal Ross Gay whose gardens and gardening often show up in his work, Camille Dungy (esp Trophic Cascade) and Rajiv Mohabir (esp The Taxidermists Cut and his newest book is Whale Aria and I just got it and I’m so excited to read it). Dr Anand’s work is so rich and beautiful and complex! Looking forward to digging into more of her poetry!

bug

Ok now that I'm listening to it - it's everything I was hoping for. Dr. Madhuri is so grounded and inspiring. I'm always fighting a creative block with trying to interpret my feelings and thoughts into art and maybe I should just start making and stop worrying about quality. Thank you again for this episode 🩷

bug

Im reading Lakes by John Richard Saylor and I just read a passage that I'll condense: "...between terminology-filled pages... are also lyrical passages... It seems these scientists could only contain their joy and wonder for so long and just had to wax poetic for a time, before returning to their scientific selves." and it is so on point with this discussion and episode. Let's do both at the same time <3

Megan E

Outside of book publishing, what other platforms can be used for this blending of science and art?