Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

Content

[Pictured: Stories of Your Life and Others' cover]This is the first and only discussion thread for Story of Your Life, our first short story of July's mini book club!Once again this write up is brought to you by Ellen because I have overthrown CJ in a NON! hostile maneuver that will allow me to scream about the narrative significance of shifting tenses multiple times mid sentence, and CJ to decide what kind of experience these heptapods needed to get with Adobe Premier before they were allowed to help edit the upcoming video.Short stories are one of my favourite literary forms, and Ted Chiang is powerfully adept with them. Story of Your Life was adapted into Arrival (2016), and although it's a cinematic triumph I'm going to be ignoring it completely for the sake of this post (of course no such restriction applies to you) because it is so dense as a literary work that there's no need to look away to find things to discuss.So many things are threaded together here that I think it's useful to gesture enthusiastically at the overall story before diving into the individual composite pieces of it that jumped out.---------------------Gesturing EnthusiasticallyChiang's holistic imagining of life feels beautiful and hopeful. You DO experience yourself as a fully integrated being, and no part of your identity exists in vacuum, thus existing in your community is also an extension of the self. It makes social responsibility into self-care.That holistic feeling carries over into a ruthlessly coherent story structure that makes me feel, frankly, insane. Each plotline/section reinforces the other plotlines and sections.I'm a fan of "nontraditional" conflict structures, and this is that. Man VS? Nature? It's more Man VS Inevitability, Grief, Physics. Yet there's tension and momentum the whole way through. Louise is facing down her understanding of her own life, particularly the disaster that kills her daughter, unable to fight back because what would that even look like? Her hands are on the reins the whole time but what does that even mean?Then there's constant, genius, one-liners. So many as section transitions and just mid paragraph makingme clutch My head and go AAH! "It will remind me, again, that you won't be a clone of me; you can be wonderful, a daily delight, but you won't be someone I could have created by myself." makingme go AAH!---------------------Literary TechniquesShifting. Tenses. I'm going to eat Styrofoam.Paragraph one: "Your dad and I have just come back from an evening out, dinner and a show; it's after midnight. We came out onto the patio to look at the full moon; then I told your dad I wanted to dance, so he humors me and now we're slow dancing, a pair of thirtysomethings swaying back and forth in the moonlight like kids."On your first read through this is just flagged as a normal (conversational!) tense shift to make the storytelling more interesting as Louise sinks into her memory, and it's only when you've read the wholeeee story that you realise this dance is the instant Louise is literally suspended in while she's talking. His Insane.The non-chronological fakeout gets me EVERY time; the pivot point of non-zero-sum-game, Louise learning information at the SAME moment the reader does and jumping across the years wildly but it's finally, so suddenly clear that you and she have both been experiencing the same order of events in this electrifying stare-right-at-you perspective shift. Scream.I'm excited to cheerfully disagree with those of you who interpret chronology things differently--one of the most fun parts of talking about Story of Your Life is asserting fundamentally different understandings of the basic premise.Another thing that I love: Chiang's efficiency and clearness of description. He is so economical and direct, and the poetry of that sings.The efficiency of this: "[The Heptapods] looked like a barrel at the intersection of seven limbs. It was radially symmetric, and any of its limbs could serve as an arm or a leg." No wasted word and no missing word.---------------------Characters and RelationshipsIt's refreshing that the military isn't treated like a complete clownshow, despite the protaganist's politics/worldview diverging from them. I admire Chiang's commitment to giving every person human dignity instead of taking the easy way out by relying on archetypes or tropes, and reducing Colonel Weber to a moron with a gun going Alien Bad. He feels like a realistic guy who Louise disagrees with in a normal, proportional, sense.Louise and Gary's marriage is an interesting nonentity in the background that informs both characterization, again, SO efficiently.Gary is constantly reinforced as being disrupting in Louise's life, abrupt. "'Hey Louise, want to go out for dinner? My treat.' I was mildly surprised. 'Sure,' I said." His word choices too: "I couldn't believe it; I was working with someone who modified the word 'neat' with 'highly.'" The story is visually interrupted by his contributions with the diagrams of Fermat's principle, and even his hair/eye colour is described as startling.Yet he still totally blends into the background of Louise's life. Early on we learn he only talks with her once a year or so. The particulars of his science don't matter until it's intersection with Louise's research and their child's homework. One single, very missable, sentence discloses that Gary came up with the name heptapod; its constant use in the story swallows up its own origin story.It's correct; he's a supporting character. It's sad; he's a representation of how perceiving time as the heptapods do complicates relationships infinitely (but doesn't ruin them!). Gary's just a guy, but he's a briliant physicist, and he wants to make a baby. In classic Ted Chiang style, it's all simply and straightforwardly accomplished. ---------------------Theme and NarrativeI LOVE that it's so CLEAR the concept of free will still exists and that human choice is still meaningful even with this wide perception of time. Very difficult to make this almost-determinism worldview actually give people MORE agency rather than less.It's choosing to see dignity in the human spirit and inherent goodness in life even if it's "cut short" without "achieving anything" because the existence of people = value. Life is just good. Living is just good.Another massive focus in the narrative is obviously perception, and that's actually a big blind spot for me. There's a lot in here having to do with patterns/possibilities of understanding time: I'm not as interested in studying that literally. Being coaxed through the technicalities of linguistics and physics was great for me as a reader, but I'm not sure how I feel about some of the bluntness in those descriptions from a critical point of view. The emotionality was what I liked most.These themes act as threads for Chiang to braid into this delicately gorgeous statement about the influence of time on our ability to communicate with other people. Slowly growing maturity. When does trust come. Sometimes things proving to not work, like Louise/Gary's marriage, but always with a core that germinates when you choose to invest in relationships over the course of years, making something meaningful despite (because?) of its brevity. For the same reason, this story is very satisfying on rereads.---------------------Our next book club meeting is July 30th, for "Authority and American Usage," by David Foster Wallace.If you can't find it under that name: it was originally published under the title "Tense Present: Democracy, English, and the Wars over Usage." Catchy. And if you really desperately want to get ahead, August's book is Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death.My recommendation for those of you on the fevered hunt for more Chiang is Understand, the second offering in the "Story of Your Life and Others" compilation book you likely acquired for today. Chiang describes Understand's protagonist's goal in this New Yorker article as, "[Searching] for the perfect language, a cognitive language in which he can think. A language that will let him think the kinds of thoughts he wants."Okay, now I want everybody to gather below for some literary vivisection. But you'll do what makes you happy, and that'll be all I ask for... 🍓

Files

Comments

Andy Tallman

Oh man. This is probably my favorite short story of all time. It kinda permanently changed my brain chemistry, so I'm very glad we're discussing it! For me, the most enchanting aspect is the elegant answer it offers to the existential/theological question of determinism vs free will. It's very much a "nice dichotomy idiot, now what lies outside of it" situation. There's something very beautiful about the idea that they're not mutually exclusive, that like an actor playing a part where the lines are all written or a musician following a score they know by heart, it can be an act of free will to follow the path that the universe has set — that the mere fact of knowing the future turns that future into the course that one desires. I'm personally really into the more technical aspects of linguistics and physics. Ted Chiang is similarly literal and focused on technical aspects in "The Tower of Babylon," and I think it adds a texture that makes the themes of the works feel all the more real. But I'm just the kind of person who's really into sci-fi technicalities — probably why I like The Three-Body Problem so much. I think that the function the technicalities serve in "Story of Your Life" is to draw an interesting line between diagesis and metaphor. The physics and linguistics make it clear that this is a sequence of events that really happened/happen/will happen, as told/retold by Louise, allowing us to meet the text on those terms rather than spending time getting bogged down in what is meant to be interpreted as an event she's processing versus what is meant to be interpreted as Louise's own metaphorical construction.

Willow De la Rivia

My "This non hostile takeover" shirt has garnered me many questions already answered by the shirt.-Ellen I view this story from to perspectives. First linguistic and the second from grief. The first one came when I first watched the movie. I watched it with a friend, and when we discussed it later he asked "How can understanding a language change your perception of time?" Now as someone who speaks three languages and is interested in learning more the answer was very simple. It is hard to explain but anyone who is not monolingual can tell you switching from a language to another can 100% change you. Your tone, your mannerisms, your thought process. Like code switching. So if Amy adams could lear how to interpret and write the alien language it would go without saying that the "code" that ruled her perception of time would adapt to it as well. The second one I got the first time I read the short story. I was going through a rough time and I as read it I kept thinking of my grandmother. She had dementia when I was young. And it was brutal and violent. I remember her talking to herself a lot. Having whole conversations when nobody was there. The nurse told me that sometimes patients with dementia "go back to their younger selfs" Maybe it was still my brain trying to cope with her death all those years later. Reading the story I thought: "Maybe this is what it was like for my grandma. She lost her grasp on time, which was alienating to us, but she was never really alone." I do wonder, whenever I sat by her, if her younger self perceived me, in the corner, a piece of her future. Also the way the bit when they explain how light travels is the perfect way to explain the language of God and the holy trinity. No I will not elaborate.

Natthew Lee

Hey all! I loved this story and it’s adjacent to a lot of topics that I find very interesting so pardon me if I get a bit logorrheic here!! Anyways, thoughts: I thought at first that the story being told to her daughter was weird in its temporal tense because it was just a strange literary technique/style. I think also because it’s in the second person it made me more forgiving of the temporal ambiguity of her story. If, rather than “I remember you’ll be doing this” it was “I remember my daughter will be doing this” or “She remembers her daughter will be doing this” then the tense would be much more jarring. I guess because the most frequent area I encounter second person is in video games? “You got a key” “You opened the door” “You defeated a boss”. I am used to, when being narrated to in the second person, accepting it a bit more passively I guess? I also assumed it could be a diary entry to her (presumed) already dead child? Or that it was her talking to her daughter’s grave? Like to cope? The second person just introduces so many ambiguities of when the speaker is speaking from, and who she is speaking to. It really really works to lull you until the rug is pulled out from under you about the real reason for her temporal slippage. Also, the reveal(?) that her daughter was her future daughter at the end was a bombshell for me. Maybe it was obvious to everyone else from the beginning, but for me the novel really made me assume her dead daughter was from a past before the aliens. I just assumed that learning Heptapod B was making her relive her past with her daughter as vividly as her present. It wasn’t until the Dad Reveal that I realized it was her future. I’m assuming because the movie also made it a reveal that mine was the intended reading experience? I hated how the movie changed her daughter’s cause of death from a rock climbing accident to an incurable disease. The inevitability of it all was really sold through the fact that it was preventable, but she thinks and lives deterministically now. I get that they did it because test audiences would probably think she was an asshole for letting her daughter die, but it just makes her mental shift more impactful to me in the book that she is so completely playing her role in the opera of spacetime. The whole air-water refraction thing was a remarkably simple way to convey that concept and my head wrapped around it so easily. The moment when she remembers the non-zero-sum-game is CHILLS. The circumstantial simultaneity of her remembering it from/for the future, but because of the non-linear story structure she’s remembering the previous line of the book. We think it’s just a clever little juxtaposition from the author due to the style but **actually** she’s really thinking and remembering in the order the text is written. GENIUS THIS MAN IS GENIUS. Reminds me of comic books when a character reaches from one panel into another panel to interact with events in a way that is textually non-linear and breaks the sequential suspended disbelief of the medium a bit. The Sapir-Whorf / language reshaping thought stuff makes me think of one of my favorite sci-fi books, XX by Rian Hughes. It’s about a transmission from aliens that is received. It turns out the transmission IS the aliens, they are an idea, and the information contained within breeds through being transmitted and mutated through being communicated by language. Very good book that touches on how language shapes us, ideas as viruses. Bouncing off of that, and maybe I’m going too far afield here, but it also makes me think of the theory of the Word Virus from William S. Burroughs. He says: “My general theory since 1971 has been that the word is literally a virus, and that it has not been recognized as such because it has achieved a state of relatively stable symbiosis with its human host; that is to say, the word virus (the other Half) has established itself so firmly as an accepted part of the human organism that it can now sneer at gangster viruses like smallpox and turn them into the Pasteur Institute.” From what I understand, his theory goes further: Burroughs posits that we were in caves until language was delivered to us from an extraterrestrial event, and it mutated us into a language speaking species. He says that language in itself is a negative mutation in us that makes us do things that we didn’t want to do to begin with, it is an outside force of negative mental colonization. Burroughs is speaking of human languages here, but it doesn’t seem too far-fetched to me that somebody with an outside perspective observing how Heptapod B changes a fluent speaker’s perception could think of Heptapod B in terms of this theory. Language’s influence is unconscious and inescapable and this short story is sort of an illustration of that subtle principle brought to a sci-fi extreme? THE MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE ARHAHGHGHGHHRHGR “They act to create the future, to enact chronology.” Yeah but why though. Fatalism, inevitability, enacted for its own sake? The way it’s described sells it to me that she finds it a worthwhile manner to live in, but I still don't understand it. It sounds almost religious? But it’s not even that she’s acting through faith in the timeline, there’s no faith required, it’s absolute certainty. And she’s doing it because of the ecstasy of bringing what she knows will happen to pass is enough? Idk, I think I get it, but also it just feels like, why must you be a slave to the timeline? I would simply not sacrifice my only daughter to the will of the Alpha Timeline. But maybe I’m saying that because I just saw Spider-Verse 2 :p I truly was sold on her conversion to determinism at the end, I just don’t necessarily understand why she allows herself to be so subsumed by it so completely so quickly. I guess because once she can remember the future it all hits her all at once so she has no choice but to bend to the framework and outlook of her future self because she’s temporally outmatched. “For the heptapods, all language was performative. Instead of using language to inform, they used language to actualize. Sure, heptapods already knew what would be said in any conversation; but in order for their knowledge to be true, the conversation would have to take place.” This felt like the weakest part of the lore to me. Performative language in english still serves a purpose. It’s doing an action for a reason. WHY do they feel the need to collapse the waveform with their words and make the future into the present? I feel like I’m setting a high bar for Mr. Chiang to get me to wrap my head completely around this alien concept but he’s so good at selling me on other batshit ideas this seeming vaguery is a sticking point for me. All the emotionality of the story works so so good. I loved it so much really. So many beautiful lines and the thematic whole had me on the floor staring at the ceiling. Don’t let my nitpicking distract from the fact that this story is amazing and almost made me cry god I love it so much the movie was not as good though but i still really liked it. Xoxo Nat

EMI

Hellooo! I love how this story takes language relativism and time determinism (two supposed opposite concepts) and mashes the two together. Language is one of my favorite topics because i realized very young (thanks to my crazy mind and episodes jajajaja) that it’s one of the things that shapes our reality with more power. It’s amazing how what you speak changes how you think and then the world around you. Of course it could change how we see time, it already does. As a person who speaks theee languages I have seen this happen, not so extremely obviously. I love love how action is the thing that makes you happy when you know all of the thing that will happen. Chiang is not saying you should resign to the future but to act it out like a duty to the world and to your self. Very similar to all the thing we talk about on this channel. Accepting the world as it is Feeling the pain and the joy Can happen wether you know what will happen or if you can only experience the present (and an incomplete past). Its important to live as if everything is happening like it had to happen (be it true or not). It grounds is in reality and makes us pu attention to the world and. Our feelings and thoughts.

Lou Corben

Yay we’re back! 🍓 I’d love to know if anyone was coming to this completely blind? What was your experience reading it? Did you read it a second time? I’m finding rewards in only re-skimming the story for my notes. Trying to find/create a linearity to my notes is proving time-consuming… NB: I’m calling Louise’s daughter Hannah for ease, as that’s her name in the movie, though she remains unnamed (to us) in the short story. The story is much funnier than I expected based on the film! And I criiiiied. And then I rewatched ‘Arrival’ and I criiiiiied. Realised arrival/departure as a metaphor for the life of her daughter which feels like such a simply done, elegant little sprinkle in the story that it’s a shame they missed it in the movie. I love the narrator calling her husband’s new(?!?) wife “what’s-her-name” - you know her name full well, bitch! Hahaha – “Seven lidless eyes ringed the top of the heptabod’s body…. I wonder if it’s a consequence of their bodies’ radial symmetry: their bodies have no ‘forward’ direction, so maybe their writing doesn’t either.” I’m travelling in SE Asia at the moment and visited an ethical elephant sanctuary. The story made me wonder if there’s anything about an elephant’s anatomy that makes them experience their reality in a way alien to us. They are very slow due to their mass and generally live longer than us. They remember people they’ve met long ago through our scents. Do they experience time differently? An elephant never forgets…. – "I could use a salad bowl like this" - the mundanity and the simplicity and the beauty and the profundity of what she says at the moment she realises all the love that lies ahead of her, urgh. Does the incident with the salad bowl CAUSE(?!?!) her to fall in love? If you could foresee your beautiful love for someone stretching out into the future, would you not fall in love with them that instant? Even if you also knew the bad parts? (Clementine: But you will. You will think of things. And I'll get bored with you and feel trapped because that's what happens with me. Joel: Okay. Clementine: Okay.) Is it possible the heptapods *dont* have free will *because* of their perception? Does our human perception mean we *can* change our fate? But Louise can’t because she’s part heptapod. She’s in the unique position of holding both consciousnesses… "I'll hold your hand extra tightly. You'll pull your hand away from me... my attempts to protect you will be what create your love of climbing" Her anxiety creates the scenario but she’s anxious because she knows the future - a neverending feedback loop - did she *cause* her own daughter's death? Or did fate conspire to? "I have a recurring dream about your death". Is it possible Hannah somehow inherited her mother's dual perception? Has Louise told her/is Louise telling her/will Louise tell her she's going to die? Does Hannah already Know? "now that I know the future, I would never act contrary to that future, including telling others what I know" Maybe she doesn’t have to. “Okay Mom, okay. You can come with me, just walk a little ways behind me, so it doesn’t look like we’re together. If I see any friends of mine, I’m gonna stop and talk to them, but you just keep walking, okay? I’ll come find you later.” BROKE MY HEART …the inevitability of your child growing up and you having to grieve your intense bond with them… I’m sorry mum!!! Maybe Hannah doesn’t Know or she wouldn’t do this. ""Well if you already know how the story goes, why do you need me to read it to you?" "'Cause I wanna hear it!"" --> On first reading: why? for comfort? On second reading: with the idea that Hannah *might* have inherited the gift: “I wanna hear it” = "I wanna live". Very agree with Nat’s despair at the movie changing Hannah’s cause of death. – Willow said something above about being multilingual and code-switching, (Emi too) and W.E.B. Dubois’ concept of double consciousness occurs to me though I’m far from qualified to unpack the thought beyond the general idea of alien-ation – Very struck in my reading by the peace that comes with knowing our destiny. “‘The semagrams seemed to be something more than language; they were almost like mandalas. I found myself in a meditative state.” Does this worldview make the heptapods inherently at peace and peaceful beings (are we calling them people? If Robin Wall Kimmerer had anything to say…)? But I’m also struck that she will always be disconnected from Gary (and Hannah?) because she will always know the future and he (they?) won’t. How lonely to be the only heptapod in your family. If heptapods are living as though performing a play, we are living in an improv sketch comedy (oh dear). More intertexutal analysis…. Shakespeare’s "All the world's a stage..." speech addressing our fate of ageing (provided we aren’t hit by a bus or a horse and coach). We all end with "second childishness and mere oblivion; Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything." (s/o to Willow’s story about their grandma <3) and "play your part, for therein all the honor lies" - is what Louise decides to do. “she is so completely playing her role in the opera of spacetime.” - Yes Nat! Aaand one day I must write my video essay on fate and trauma in Romeo and Juliet... "I met your father and I learned Heptapod B, both of which make it possible for me to know you *now*, here on the patio in the moonlight." And the Story of YOUR Life loops back to start. Aha! The whole story of Hannah's life is remembered and (re)told in the moment between Gary's question and Louise's answer. "We came out onto the patio to look at the full moon; ...And then your dad says, "Do you want to make a baby?" And I smile and answer, "Yes," and I unwrap his arms from around me, and we hold hands as we walk inside to *MAKE* *LOVE*, to make YOU. 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Hazelhaunt

This is my first book club here and there is so much great discussion happening! I wish I took notes while reading so that my thoughts would be more organized but I read it at the beach 😅 Totally agree with Nat about the change to Hannah's cause of death. It fundamentally alters the emotional driver of Louise's action (I hesitate to call it a choice). Having access to Louise's internal monologue in the story reveals more of the nuance of her relationship with her daughter than the film. We learn that Hannah is adventurous and rebellious in ways Louise struggles to relate to or see herself in, so losing Hannah to a preventable accident while she is taking a risk that Louise would probably never take (climbing) serves the development of Louise's character better. It's more of a meditation on what it means to accept the role of being a parent, and I emotionally anchor to it more strongly. In contrast, the inevitability of having a child destined to die of disease robs Louise of her agency in her own realization of her role as a mother– to love and accept her child unconditionally, for the reckless and difficult person she may be, and discern when to protect her and when to let her go. I think mothers of daughters do foresee a lot of the anguish and struggle that their girls will experience in the world before it happens, and have to thread that needle carefully. You can't always shelter them from the experiences that will comprise their life and their becoming, though you will probably really want to. The illness death makes Hannah's conception feel more like an obligation to fate that Louise has to incubate rather than an act of genuine love and excitement to be a mother to this child. This may be a bit of a stretch but that gives me pro-life/anti-choice, a little bit. Also love Lou's thoughts about how physiology affects a living thing's perception of its surroundings. I'm reminded of the mantis shrimp, who can see colors we can never hope to imagine or name with the limited cones in our eyes, or octopuses, whose brain cells are distributed along their arms rather than solely concentrated in their heads. (Our last common ancestor with the latter was a rudimentary sea worm, so their every evolution towards intelligence since then has been on a totally divergent track from our own). Language is a sensory thing, whether you're seeing sign language, reading written words, hearing speech, or reading Braille by touch. Bridging those sensory gaps between two fundamentally and totally different entities with different bodies to find a common language was such a gargantuan undertaking for Louise. I've recently started reading Diane Ackerman's A Natural History of the Senses and there's beautiful prose that considers this. "There is no way in which to understand the world without first detecting it through the radar-net of our senses. We can extend our senses… but what is beyond our senses we cannot know. Our senses define the edge of consciousness, and because we are born explorers and questors after the unknown, we spend a lot of our lives pacing that Windswept perimeter." In part we cannot know what is beyond our senses that other beings may experience because we do not have the opportunity to establish reliable common language to exchange those ideas with a similarly sentient being as the heptapods. From what I've heard, Ted Chiang further explores the concept of animal modes of thought and communication in other stories. I don't really feel smart enough to fully grasp onto the theoretical physics part of this story but book or movie, what resonates most with me is the idea that love and life are always worth it, all the heartache and loss. Loss and grief are blessings left in the absence of someone you were lucky enough, in your finite impermanent stretch of time on earth, to know and to love. Might edit with more thoughts once I read more comments!

BrEaNs

- This opening sentence immediately got me. It reminds me of this strange feeling I think everyone gets sometimes where they realize they are living through something they will remember later. It's like a waking lucid dream when it happens, the fact that you know you'll be looking at this moment in the future becomes part of the experience and time collapses. A morbid example that comes to mind for me is the death of my grandfather. My uncle knocked on the door of my room, said "Your grandfather passed...", I said "Oh.", then I walked over to my grandfather's house to comfort my mother, saw her, we hugged, etc. Hearing that he passed created a void. I wasn't sad yet, but I knew the world changed and I knew that I was watching my every action sometime later. When I walked to his house, I could perceive all my life with him and how long I would be without him. I perceived future selves eons away watching me walk through the woods. - I like that Louise telling the physicist to be patient is immediately followed by a story of her daughter having to learn to be patient. I mentioned the feeling of knowing you'll remember something earlier, and I think the opposite of that is deja vu. Deja vu is the feeling that you are repeating something in the past but can't quite remember what. It's another way of time collapsing, but it places emphasis on your past actions instead of your future watching. - The simultaneous time thing also emphasizes the smallest of childhood versus the largeness of adulthood. The daughter lives very much in the immediate, which is very common for kids and I certainly relate to. As you get older, you gain perspective and get closer to Louise's stance. Although you don't know the future, you know your past and that changes your approach to the world. Everything starts to become less about you as you develop a sense of self and whatnot. - I liked that all the characters had different "languages." The general thought in militarism, Gary thought in physics (unable to make himself learn Heptopod language), the daughter thought in immediate action, etc. Obviously all the characters are more complicated than the prior sentence (I didn't even know how to classify Louise because we know her so well), but my point is that the story seems to convey the difficulty of truly understanding other people completely. Even if we speak the same language, each person's thought patterns are so unique that some barrier might remain. - I love the design of the aliens. It really communicates how our bodies make us perceive reality. They are symmetric, so they have no front they have to orient themselves with. They have two mouths that separate the acts of speaking/breathing and eating/pooping. It really drives home how biology and culture affects our perception of reality. - I really like Hazelhaunt's analysis of the film changing the daughter's cause of death.

annie liz

TIME!!!! Time???? Time!?!?! This story is just mesmerizing. It’s the good kind of crunchy cylinder ice in my brain. It’s also helping me work through a point in my life where I’m simultaneously missing the past and anxious for a faster future. While I can’t exactly reprogram my brain to Heptapod_Mode and live it all at once, it’s helped me absorb my surroundings in gratitude (🍓) for my part; I’m running through each step aware of every muscle I’ve needed and will need to use instead of clinging to a traincar as it drags me inexorably forward. Linguistics: I took a linguistics class my very first year of college and while I don’t remember a ton, I do remember finding it FASCINATING. It informed a lot of my views on communications later in undergrad, and it always raises an exciting signal for me when I see it in stories in the wild. Has anyone read Andy Weir’s Project Hail Mary? It was a delightful read with a massive chunk dedicated to a very similar process Louise went through when learning how to converse with the Heptapods, and it was my favorite part of the whole book. Looking back on it, I imagine Weir probably took a good bit of inspiration for it from Chiang. Breaking down language, breaking down communication, breaking down MEANING into the tiniest pieces and building up from the bottom is something that we don’t think to do regularly. And what kind of restructured ideas could we make if we did? On first thought, I’d say I have no idea (but on second thought, I’d say we make Art) Tenses: Tenses! Hard rt with Ellen on eating styrofoam. Losing my mind. Rotating them in my head. Others have been covering it better than I can, but I want to include some of the juiciest tense-fest sentences that got me (page #s are from the 2016 short story collection edition): “It won't have been that long since you enjoyed going shopping with me; it will forever astonish me how quickly you grow out of one phase and enter another.” (p. 115, and I need to hug my mom). “Your eyes will be blue like your dad’s, not mud brown like mine. Boys will stare into those eyes the way I did, and do, into your dad’s, surprised and enchanted, as I was and am, to find them in combination with black hair. You will have many suitors” (p. 121, and the future-past tense dead daughter has better game than me). “I remember what it’ll be like watching you when you are a day old” (p. 143, and I drew little < and > and ^ symbols over each word signifying which tense a word represented. it looks like a Dance Dance Revolution board). Performance: “Freedom isn’t an illusion; it’s perfectly real in the context of sequential consciousness. Within the context of simultaneous consciousness, freedom is not meaningful, but neither is coercion; it’s simply a different context, no more or less valid than the other… there is no ‘correct’ interpretation” (p. 137). That's some good fuckin FOOD. The most difficult and most rewarding part of the story for me was internalizing this bit. It’s initially understandable to assume that by accepting a simultaneous consciousness, Louise somehow condemns her daughter to death or somehow chooses to allow it to happen. But that still assumes a base state of linear experience. Instead, she simply sees the same experience of time within the new CONTEXT of a singular point. On a smaller scale, I found myself matching it all to the story of Orpheus and Euridice. Like Aeschylus’s Oresteia, “this was always going to happen. She's been dead since the beginning,” and Hadestown’s “It's a sad tale, it's a tragedy, it's a sad song, but we sing it anyway… because here’s the thing, to know how it ends and still begin to sing it again, as if it might turn out this time…” It would be easy to write out a different story, of Orpheus holding strong, of Euridice staying, of something going different for it to all turn out all right, but that’s not why we read THAT story, is it? We know the ending. And don’t we still read it anyway? And don’t we still feel its love? I’m a chronic re-watcher, re-reader, re-consumer of the things I love. I have some movies from my childhood still memorized. I love a happy ending; I’ll die for a happy ending. But some of the best stories don’t always have one. I could ignore that (and ngl sometimes I do lol), I could ignore that facet of humanity and of living, but sometimes the point isn’t to find a way out of it. The point is the DOING, the point is the ACTION for all sakes, for all tenses, and “we sing it anyway.” The conscious action of participation becomes the conscious action of choosing to exist at all. When I first read this story, I wished I could just fully convert to Heptapod_Mode, exist in the singular Everything. I don’t feel that desire anymore; like Louise, “my mind was cast in the mold of human, sequential languages, and no amount of immersion in an alien language can completely reshape it” (p. 140). But now I think it’s better that way. I love Actions and Results, and I love choice that leads to change, I love taking my days with freedom, one at a time, and looking into the unknown to see what’s around the corner. But when I’m feeling swept up, when I’m feeling like the linear waves are too far above me, it helps so, so, SO much to just zoom out and try to recognize my experience as happening in that context, at that singular point. It expands my toolbox of how I want to experience the Now. Happy book club!

margaret (formerly Samson)

Yes yes yes about the not seeing how you would still choose to follow the script. This was by far the sticking point for me - and i think it's good that the story didnt just wimp out saying that Louise sees and experiences her whole life in all its richness and she now has long term vision and blah blah sentimentality blah. I think it's good that it gives us something so tangible and repulsive as the death of a child, a child who is yet to be born at all. She could have chosen to have sex at literally any other moment, and had a different child. She could have chosen not to have a kid. She could have chosen a different partner with whom to have a kid. And ok, sure, so she wants to have *her* child. They do make a big point of her recognizing her kid in particular and valuing that specificity, and I think maybe that's a decent ish argument. Her life is hers and her future is hers and she wants to have it, etc. Fine. But then we get that shit with the bowl, and she knows it's going to result in pain for her daughter and herself, and yet she still buys the bowl, AND (worse, for me) she still puts it down on the dishtowel. Why does she feel compelled to reach out and grab the bowl after being bombarded with the memory of the bowl injuring her daughter? Wouldn't the injury cause her to recoil from the bowl, to not pick it up? This, i think, is the part where Chiang lost me a little. That didn't feel like free will. The only thing i can think of is that the entirety of her future, the specific entity of her life as experienced in that one eternal second that she sometimes gets, is so sacred and precious to her that, like choosing her daughter over all other possible children she could have, she chooses her life over all the other possible lives she could lead. But this doesn't feel like it rings with the same truth that these things sometimes ring with, so idk.

valentin

we are back baby!!!! bookclub is back and so am i and so are the reading spots (trademark pending) i randomly stumbled across this book in a multistory bookshop in germany, so i seized the moment and bought it, sat down in a chair in said bookshop and promptly read most of this weeks short story. heres what that looked like: https://imgur.com/a/IHzi8GN anyway, lets get into it! 🍓 TIME PERCEPTION: At the center of this story stands the question of how a shift from a linear view of time to a non sequential one would change the way we interact with reality. Throughout the story we can follow Louise as she experiences this shift and the way her life changes / has changed / will change because of it. What i love about this story is how Louise DOESNT turn into a indifferent nihilist since she now knows everything that will ever happen in her life, achieving something resembling omnipotence (a trope that is way to common in sci-fi) Meaning does not need to be derived from uncertainty. "What if the experience of knowing the future changed a person? What if it evoked a sense of urgency, a sense of obligation to act precisely as she knew she would?" (p.157) TIME PERECEPTION PT. 2: Ok its cool to see heptapods and louise (and that other dude who appears for a page or two) experience becoming unstuck in time, but my favourite section in the book is when Louise reads a story to her daughter and this happens: You'll put your hand on the page of the book and stop me. "You have to read it the right way!" "I'm reading just what it says here," [...] "No you're not. That's not how the story goes." "Well if you already know how the story goes, why do you need me to read it to you?" "Cause I wanna hear it." Fucj yesss goosebumps everywhere!! This is shit is real! I know this! That has happened to me. You dont need to be a linguist learning a language from a bunch of aliens to experience this. This shit is also real for every single human being. We read stories we already know, we watch movies several times. We listen to our favourite songs dozens of times, experiencing a predetermined moment over and over again. And it does. not. diminish. the meaning. What is muscle memory if not precognition? playing a song on an instrument means following the script of reality. im just like louise banks, shes just like me for real. And again: knowing whats going to happen does not make the future any less impactful. to me at least. this book fucks. SCIENCE: uhh so yeah ted chiang is a little bit of a nerd. the whole phyics thing is super wonky and weird but its true. I am not a phyiscist and not smart enough to understand quantum mechanics, but i have been interested in physics for my entire life and the light refraction stuff had me so excited. The fact that reality is sometimes non chronological and not easily comprehensible through our modes of thinking just makes me kinda happy and calm. Also Ted Chiang explained the whole thing so elegantly within the context of the story!! he clearly understands the concept very well. LIFE, I GUESS: I rewatched the time is an illusion video after being done with this book and at some point CJ asks the viewer to "comment what meaning you derive from thinking of your life like this" ("like this referring to the non sequential stuff) So i will do just that now, but i will do it here bc the patreon book club is better than the YouTube comment section. Ive been going through some tough times lately. Lots of change in my life, emotionalpy heavy events happening and the future is uncertain. I might end up missing the past or dreading the future and forgetting to be present all at once. But remembering that the future is a real place and so is the past gives me an enormous amount of peace. The future is uncertain yes, but one thing is certain: it will happen and i will be in a place at a time and isnt that nice? Also this book might have actually altered my brain chemistry or something bc sometimes when i perform an action like picking up a glass and placing it somewhere else i get this feeling of profundity, as if the glass is moving on an invisble arc, with a predetermined destination, just like the refracted light beam. Good stuff, I hope you all have been doing well, i am very excited for the new CJ the X video and I am watching that right now in the future and its good. See you all next week

Hannah Jones

Yes, (Slight spoiler warning (for us trapped in linear time) for a recent blockbuster below) I loved reading this short story for the science, the emotion, and philosophical implications, but my biggest take away was the ending. When Louise said Yes. This has heighted my attention to action of saying Yes and just this weekend I came across it twice. Saying Yes feels like the pinnacle of the idea of “an urgent sense of obligation to act precisely as one knows one will”. To me, this relates to the idea of pactivity, from the Swedish philosopher Jonna Bornemark. The word is a merge of passivity and activity, and she exemplifies the experience of pactivity with childbirth. She writes how she experienced passively receiving a force greater than her, and simultaneously actively participating in the labor. I think this parallels Louise’s experience of living her life all at once, receiving yet urgently participating. I was at a wedding this weekend. When the bride’s mother gave her speech she referenced Yoko Ono’s participatory artwork, where the viewer climbs a ladder to find the word Yes printed in small print on the ceiling. The bride mother wanted us all to toast the couple and them to toast themselves, not by saying Cheers but by saying Yes. Secondly, at an important point in the Barbie movie, Barbie says Yes. As a child of the 90s, this also gave me a degree of closure as “Ah ah ah yeah” and “Oowow” are somewhat elusive answers to a different yes or no question. Anyway, I’ve gone a bit away from the short story itself, but for me, the takeaway was the power of saying Yes, as well as a through line of motherhood. I’ll keep reflecting on this. It probably personally has ties to my thesis work I as try to create something that I want to go on existing outside myself. Also, does anyone else keep misreading radially symmetric as radically symmetric? I think I like that better.

Chandler Sterling

Hello fellow reader of this mini, tiny, bite-sized book club post I am also reading it right now to myself as I write it, but by the time you get your hands on it, I will be gone. Welcome to my past, your present, and our future should we return here to read this post again. Time is so fucked up, and then we got free will on top of it; how is a human to grapple with so much responsibility? Ted Chiang showed, still shows, and will continue to show us as long as there remains a copy of "Stories of Your Life" somewhere. Where do I start? (I've noticed that whenever I try to review a thing, I always want say, "Where do I start," but luckily for us, I have already started. Causally speaking, there should be a right place to start discussing, but we're in our simultaneity brain mode right now.) "Can I be made of honor?" Like come on, that is so cute and the perfect illustration of the difficulties of learning a language. Why would a child ever want or need to know that the goofballs who threw together the English language couldn't get creative enough to make "maid" and "made" sound as different as their meanings would imply? You have to make that mistake, and understand the context of it before you can really comprehend a language. We are all just one learning experience away from being a toddler learning the hard way about homophones, and that is both good and normal, don't shy away from that. Louise was that same kid to the heptapods, trying to discuss linearly what they experienced simultaneously. The constant tug-of-war between needing to both understand and be understood really is just the downfall of all communication huh? (This is your sign to start learning that thing that you want to learn but sounds way too complicated! Maybe it'll teach your brain how to see into the future!) Parallels. Parallels everywhere you look. Parallels between the difficulty of understanding the wants and needs of aliens and children (our own homemade aliens if the people I know who have children are to be believed). Parallel structure in the rapid-fire tense changes in sentences. Parallel moments in time when suddenly a memory becomes a prophecy becomes the present becomes something long past and you're back again like nothing happened. Half the story takes place in a literal parallel (the looking glass sure does sound like a metaphorical mirror to me). Why are there two heptapods? Cause there are two humans on the other side. Free will is so cool, thank goodness I get to improvise my lines every single day. The heptapods really have it made, they get to have free will so much that it doesn't even matter to them anymore. When every choice you make happens at the same time, you don't even have to wonder why you're making them. Truly a species incapable of experiencing anxiety, can they make a pill to give me omnipresence yet, or do I really have to learn Heptapod B first? The calm acceptance of her entire life really make Louise the absolute star of the show. There is no hesitation or doubt, she knows who she is, and even if the outcomes aren't ideal, she is secure enough in her decisions to make them anyway. The epitome of, "If I could do it all over again I wouldn't change a thing." What an icon. Star performer of this story she called her life. I will definitely be giving this story another dozen reads just to soak it all in, and even though I now know how it all goes, that's sort of the whole point of the story isn't it? Louise's daughter said it best, "'Well if you already know how the story goes, why do you need me to read it to you?' 'Cause I wanna hear it!'"

sal3m

yess the physics i love being happy and calm. i always describe love as a ‘calm happiness’ thank you for making me realize this book and specifically physics (+ non sequential being in my case) bring me love. the collapse of space and time brings me love yay it’s not so scary it’s freeing

sal3m

hi lovely bookclub people! loved this story, love reading all of your comments and understanding it more. reading your thoughts brings a different context to te story (wink wink). same story, different view. anyways, i’d like to give you a different context of life i recently got stuck on. reading this story (+talking about a wasp just doing what it was evolved into doing) i started thinking about instinct. instinct is such an interesting thing to me. it’s a trait mostly attributed to non-human animals. but who are we to say we don’t solely act on instinct? the arguments i hear most of the time is that we’re rational beings because we feel emotion, think critically etc. my question is how do we know that all of that is not just part of our instinct? couldn’t it be that the thoughts we have are just instinct and don’t we feel emotions out of instinct anyway? who are we to say we have influence on how we act, who are we to say we’re the only species that doesn’t (for the majority of the time) act out of instinct. other side of this: it could also mean that non-humans don’t act out of instinct at all and actually think ‘rationally’ about what they do. maybe just using different senses than we do. ps. i might be leaving the bookclub soon due to 🍓but i’ll be back promise

saba

This is my first go around at book club participation in this way. So Judge Me, I dare you. This is going to be pretty hand wavy and informal. I am very much a really big fan of nonchronology as it was first introduced to me in Slaughterhouse Five. Personally, I found the sudden realization of Louise’s being unstuck in time familiar to the way I have experienced time as a person with PTSD. The tenses thing feels very primal to me, as I had one of my first ever panic attacks whilst writing a short story in the 1st or 2nd grade, because I couldn’t decide what tense to put it in. Anyways, I say the trauma event happened to me when I was about 9 or 10, but I only experienced it in full and to memory in my sophomore year of high school in what would be narratively called a flashback, but felt more like actually time-hopping. It was really really really weird, and still I have not processed or actually gotten access to much of the trauma event as memory. The only way I can describe it is having to integrate parts of your life which haven’t “happened” to “you” yet. Or, like a baby who hasn’t been born yet, who you also know exactly how it is going to die. And a lot of my life is me fighting with my brain, who is actively trying to stop the trauma event from happening to me in the first place, which is futile, because it already has, and is, and will never again. This I found to be similar to Louise’s reflection that “my attempts to protect you will be what creates your love of climbing.” Sometimes it feels like the more harmful protection mechanisms my unconscious brain enacts only serves to recreate the same scenarios that lead to my trauma event sotospeak. This is beginning to feel more and more like something that is just useful for me. Which is fine. It is silly right? The fact that, you can be so so so scared, even if you know the ending. I don’t “know” how my trauma event ends, I just know it does, and for me to be here, it did, but every flashback accesses the same mind numbing fear. And every time I am triggered there is only one thing my mind wants to do: hide. Even if it is to my detriment. So the whole free will conversation here feels different once you unscramble time. Louise knows how her daughter will die, and yet, she has her anyways, and she has dreams of her death, and she is overprotective, not because it is logical or that it will change things, but because? ? Be Cause? This is when I realize the language I am using is insufficient, – it is the thing for her to do. Okay here’s my interpretation of the events tho: In this story, it seems to me, at least, it is the event of understanding the language that the aliens speak, that unlocks this new perception of time. Similar to my or kurt vonneguts trauma event (assault,war, near death experiences who cares what it is), this event takes Louise out of her chronological life. I’d like to look at the definition of teleology: the explanation of phenomena in terms of the purpose they serve, rather than the cause by which they arrive. When you pull all events to the surface, and experience them all at once, rather than sequentially,it is interesting the way cause-and-effect becomes rather meaningless. This time-dissolution, or cause-dissolution feels related to ego-dissolution to me. It’s something I have been ideating a bit about in terms of conflict: If they were me they’d be me, and if I were them I’d be them. Whether it is to give radical empathy to someone who has wronged me or to myself, I find this belief useful in diffusing many self imposed narratives or preconceived notions. In this way, I give myself and others the freedom to become someone different. I revoke the need for judgment or shame based thinking, and in this way leads me to feel like I have more agency in my relationship to my current self and others. Things are the way the are because they had to be that way: Now what? It feels grounding. Less judgment, more perceiving, being, and then doing. Someone made this comparison, how Chiang gives us more agency through this framework, how language becomes an action, rather than a means for communication. It feels veryyyy law of attraction-crackpot-speak. But I like it. I think without this narrative, I would argue what Chiang highlights, that it makes all language feel performative- that is to say, that it feels disingenuous. However, I think this piece correctly calls into question what I believe is important about communication, and what I dislike about performance. I feel like communication feels necessary and present in the way it is improvisational, and in the hands of the two parties to give and take what they need or want. Whereas, performance, the audience is at the hands of the performer, who has authority over the event. However, maychance sometimes distance, or at least maybe, an explicit performance framework, is needed for true presence. Like when actors play out a scene, or muscians play out a song. Brian Eno says, “Repetition is a form of change.” Every time we repeat something, it is different. Even if every phrase or dynamic or inflection is the same, it is different purely in the context of time. It is through the repetition that we can clearly see the medium of time, the here and now, flowing through us. I don’t know about ya’ll, but for me, There is a flow state, where because you have spoken these words so many times, or played these notes so many times, so many ways, where you can actually express yourself accurately on a higher level, and speak THROUGH the sentences and phrases you are playing, rather than focusing on the individual notes or words coming out. And even then, you wouldn’t want to focus on them, because there is so much otherrrr essences you are emanating through them that couldn’t be written out explicitly or fully explained through just words, notes, or movements but needed the medium and context of time to fully realize this essence this presence. So while communication is important, it supposes a revealing and give and take. Not dissimilar to the army guys being confused about the “gift exchange” between the aliens. I think maybe the gift of performance, the framework of being explicit in the conniving nature of performance, actually makes it easier to be present and have agency through action. It is through this lense of teleology where purpose or something seems to give us all the profound and radical agency to speak through our own actions, and to enact the change that we all were made to enact. We don’t say things because we feel things, rather, because they were what we needed to say. The words we said were the words which needed to be spoken.

Teageen

Imo most humans do just act on instinct. And I wouldn't say that emotions are separate or outside of instinct. I'd actually say the exact opposite. [Enter on my phone is just posting the comment, so "insert line break here"] If you view humans as a whole as rational beings capable of critical thinking, empathy, etc, it makes coping with the current state of Earth unbearable (for me at least).

CJ The X

*stumbles late into my own book club with lipstick kisses on my neck* Reading Story of Your Life in public was dangerous bc I forgor that I spontaneously burst into tears while reading it. 
This thing is sincerely like a religious text to me. I’ll leave my highly technical spiritual stuff for my comment replies to other ppl but here I just want to talk about how SEXY this story is. - “Do you want to make a baby?” This is cringeworthy from an adolescent perspective but almost chillingly sensual as an adult. When you’re a kid you like to imagine your parents as sexless, but your literal body and soul are a result of their sexuality. It’s a weird scary and lovely thing getting older and at some point seeing your parent the way that you know other people see them, the way they see themselves: not as parent, but person. The chemistry (no pun inte- *gunshot*) between Louise and Gary develops spontaneously and organically, sneaking up so sweetly, but repeat reads reveal it to be inevitable and immediate. They are perfectly matched in humour and competence, but notably different in complimentary ways. Louise is a little wittier, ironic and type A while Gary is goofy and sincere and vulnerable. For the whole first conversation Colonel Weber is trying to use Louise’s expertise without revealing anything specific or providing any context about the top secret classified compartmentalized information, and Louise keeps just saying the word “aliens” repeatedly to his face. - “I presume this has something to do with the aliens?” - “Could you see the alien while it was speaking?” - “You won’t be giving anything away if you tell me that you’ve seen the aliens” - “I assume these aliens don’t look like humans?” - “I’d need to talk with the aliens directly” When Weber finally also says the word “alien” right at the end of this (elicited by Louise’s erudite competence), THEN she calls them “Native speakers.” It’s mischievous. Not to mention the tone of the whole story, as she eloquently and sardonically narrates motherhood and this spiritual life changing cosmic phenomena. Gary also has a great sense of humour, but a different one. He’s cartoonish and disruptive with his humour while Louise is subtler, more conscientious. - Gary held open the tent flap and gestured for me to enter. “Step right up,” he said, circus barker-style. “Marvel at creatures the likes of which have never been seen on God’s green earth.” “And all for one slim dime,” I murmured, walking through the door. - “So are we ready to start asking about their mathematics?” “Not yet”… I said, and then smiled when he mimed frustration. Honestly just imagine how charming and sweet this mimed frustration is for a second and tell me you don't kind of want to s* this guys d* This humble unapologetic affect is attractive. You can feel the charge ripple through the air when his Big Dick Energy strikes Louise. - “We guessed wrong about what’d be most useful for you to know,” Gary said without embarrassment. - “I’ll need your help with this session,” I told him.
“Sure. What do you want me to do?” “We need to elicit some verbs… would you act out a few…?” “No problem,” said Gary, cracking his knuckles. We began with some simple intransitive verbs: walking, jumping, speaking, writing. Gary demonstrated each one with a charming lack of self-consciousness; the presence of video cameras didn’t inhibit him at all. - "This calls for a celebration." He stopped pacing and turned to me. "Hey Louise, want to go out for dinner? My treat." I was mildly surprised. "Sure," I said. These two were doomed to fuck! Then that crackling life that they both have results in their daughter, with whom I would argue the unflinching sexuality of the story continues. When you’re a parent you like to imagine your kids as sexless, but it is not the case. Particularly for Louise, her kid is way too powerful and confident. It’s funny to watch Louise bear the burden of a kid who is very popular, desired, and full of desire. When the child is 13 years old she’s described as fluctuating between two wild extremes: - “I remember once when we’l be driving to the mall to buy some new clothes for you. You’ll be thirteen. One moment you’ll be sprawled in your seat, completely unself-conscious, all child; the next, you’ll toss your hair with a practiced casualness, like a fashion model in training.” This is hot girl pre-teen behaviour. You have to imagine 13 year old Louise was too busy reading Lord of the Rings or something. Then the scheming!? The kid arrogantly assertively instructing her mother of The Mall Plan (give me the credit card, pretend you don’t know me). It’s childish and obnoxious, but it’s also a mix of unapologetic confidence (dad) and justified alpha arrogance (mom). The next glimpse we get she’s 16. She has a friend over and is using code language to assess the hotness of her mom’s prospective boyfriend. She invents this code, teaches it to her friend, and uses it in front of her mom against her wishes. - “You may feel the urge to make comments about him,” I’ll say, checking myself in the hallway mirror. “Just restrain yourselves until we leave.” “Don’t worry, Mom,” you’ll say. “We’ll do it so that he won’t know. Roxie, you ask me what I think the weather will be like tonight. Then I’l say what I think of Mom’s date.” “Right,” Roxie will say. “No, you most definitely will not,” I’ll say. “Relax, Mom. He’ll never know; we do this all the time.” “What a comfort that is.” Nelson is ruggedly handsome, to your evident approval. Just as we're about to leave, Roxie will say to you casually, "So what do you tihnk the weather will be like tonight?" "I think it's going to be really hot," you'll answer. You can see why Louise says she’s more concerned of her kid manipulating boys than being manipulated. She’s too fucking powerful lmao (It's notable that the man that her kid approves of is the man that Louise goes on to remarry.) Then there’s the scene where she’s gushing jubilantly about how fucked up she got at a party over breakfast. - “Oh man,” you’ll say, “they’re not kidding when they say that body weight makes a difference. I didn’t drink any more than the guys did, but I got so much drunker.” I’ll try to maintain a neutral, pleasant expression. I’ll really try. Then you’ll say, “Oh, come on, Mom.” “What?” “You know you did the exact same things when you were my age.” I did nothing of the sort, but I know that if i were to admit that, you’d lose respect for me completely. It’s just such a devastatingly Real detail how in charge of her sexuality Louise’s child is. All the little details imply she’s just extremely gorgeous and confident and smart and assertive and horny and is dating and partying and hooking up from 15 years old all while clearly maintaining an extremely successful academic life and complaining when her parents display any discomfort with her behaviour or decisions. - “I remember when you are fifteen, coming home after a weekend at your dad’s, incredulous over the interrogation he’ll have put you through regarding the boy you’re currentrly dating. You’ll sprawl on the sofa, recoutning your dad’s latest breach of common sense: “You know what he said? He said, ‘I know what teenage boys are like’” Roll of the eyes. “Like I dont?” She rolls her eyes like Gary does! - Your eyes will be blue like your dad’s, not mud brown like mine. Boys will stare into those eyes the way I did, and do, into your dad’s, surprised and enchanted, as I was and am, to find them in combination with black hair. You will have many suitors. The last glimpse is her flashing her body in her college grad photos: - I remember a picture of you taken at your college graduation. In the photo you’re striking a pose for the camera, mortarboard stylishly tilted on your head, one hand touching your sunglasses, the other hand on your hip, holding open your gown to reveal the tank top and shorts you’re wearing underneath. Hot girl shit! It’s not the most important element of the story, but it’s one of the million things that make it shine and ring with Truth. It starts with sex and ends with sex and sex is woven throughout very tastefully. Most people probably don’t read this story and find it to be a beautiful description and representation of the paradoxes and intricacies of human sexuality but it’s something that strikes me as yet another spoke of the nonlinear interconnectivity essence. “Do you want to make a baby?” in all it’s romance and eroticism is the exact nexus between pleasure and purpose, it’s the thing that results in the life and love of their kid, and that’s the same pulsing desire and abundance that courses through their Giga Chad child, as uncomfortable and wonderful as it is, in all it’s terrifying majesty. And this is just ONE ELEMENT OF THE STORY. Arguably a MINOR one. It’s overwhelming how many pages pour out of me when I start writing about this short story. There is just so much. Finally I want to echo Hannah Jones in comparing the ending to that moment in the Barbie movie (also relevant, Lou Corben quoting Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind). Both make me CRY, a LOT. Saying Yes to existence. Tearfully, fearfully, awefully saying yes to the human experience. Jesus christ. Good cries. The perfect cry. Puts you right where you need to be, that holy place, Yes.

CJ The X

Thanks for sharing the temporal tomfoolery of your trauma experience. I found that fascinating. Your section on teleology is close to a xerox of a portion of the video I'm editing. I hope I put it as eloquently as you have. The time-dissolution is very connected to an ego dissolution, and it works as a tool for inner peace and radical empathy and also a way to enrich and cherish your conscious experience of your life. Fortunately, the bit that you point out is also essentially wonderful, the improvisational construction of conversation and experience, is the exact bit where the science fiction starts! We can't know the future, so we can't literally perform our lines in the play. We can always appreciate the raw, surprising, improvisational feel of experience. But the non-sequential consciousness honestly functions in day to day life if you work on it. It makes you feel... destiny, meaning, the inevitability and interconnectivity of all things. Thinking of all things as gifts, without a valuation of exchange or a competition for the top. Or even the justification and optimistic interpretation of suffering. The suffering just is. And it's connected to everything else. That's true. It might be far more bearable to see the ways all of the bad is interpenetrated by all of the good, instead of feeling the weight of the bad encroaching upon the good. Trying to be sanctimonious and judgemental and categorical about separating the two leads to a lot of added insecurity and misery instead of blurring your eyes and seeing the totality of things more often than not. Kind of like C. Thi Nguyen's dual gamer agency. You participate in causality and morality and judgement and conceptualization as a game, but you retain some higher agency, an ability to tune out of this illusion and see everything, know it is all one thing, all To Be. If I were them I'd be them, if they were me they'd be me. Things are, but you truly do get to decide how you try to see them. Less judging, more perceiving, being... and then doing.

valentin

I love hearing about this book from the perspective of somebody who has already read it several times. The amount of minute details you notice is astonishing and proves how much care went into this story. Also the way this book (and you) talk about sex and love really speaks to me. I think the way society and capitalism (and all the bad things) have turned sex into this ego driven commodity is disappointing. Pleasure is beautiful and powerful and spiritual! Attraction is so mysterious and people are so exciting. I get how "making a baby" could be seen as cringeworthy but I support this term. I prefer it to "having sex" or "having a baby" bc you ARE making it!! You are literally creating a new life with only the powers of your own body. That's cool. Same goes for "making love" - it's so much more active and sexy than "having sex" good stuff. Also I thought you referring to Louises daughter (who is never named?) as a Gigachad was pretty funny. Anyways, I send you power for the creation of the big video! Goodbye

erga

I absolutely loved this story -- it hits so many of my interests while also being so incredibly emotionally devastating. I have amateur understandings of linguistics and physics but I know enough to know that this story truly does justice to these fields. I love how technical the story is and how these technical elements are also very relevant -- there is so much detail but it is all important for the story, there is nothing unnecessary. I recently learned about the concept of homogenous empty time and it was on my mind as I read this story. You can read more about it here: https://www.athwart.org/empty-homogeneous-time/ but to briefly summarize it is an understanding of time as strictly sequential but also arbitrary; it doesn’t matter when things happen and there is no meaningful difference between each moment. It is not an accurate conception of how individuals actually experience time, but it is a dominating and pervasive idea that many institutions and ideologies rely on to function. For me "Story of Your Life" challenges this idea that time is meaningless. It's an exploration of the meaning that a single moment can contain, everything leading up to it and everything that is to come. There is a sanctity to every moment that Louise realizes once she has this non-linear perception of time, a value to each action she carries out. One of my favourite parts of the story is when she buys the salad bowl in the market because she "remembers" the moment in the future that is an important memory she has of her daughter. I love Chiang's portrayal of the interconnectedness of past, present, and future, and how there are complexities that can't be realized if we stay within the linear perception of time. Anyways homogenous empty time bad and I like how this story can be used to show the value in re-understanding what time truly is. "From the beginning I knew my destination, and I chose my route accordingly. But am I working toward an extreme of joy, or of pain? Will I achieve a minimum, or a maximum?" What really hits me about this story is that Louise knows the future and the life she has with her daughter, and ultimately her daughter's death. She sees it all happening at once. And whether or not she has a choice in creating this future is debatable, but she performs it regardless. And it's both a path of extreme joy and of pain -- Louise knows how the story ends and knows each moment that happens along the way but she performs each one as she saw it, as if she has this reverence for time itself. I also think Chiang is exploring aspects of parenthood here, because all parents know the possibilities that come along with raising a child, Louise just knows exactly which ones will happen in her life. Parenthood always comes with risk, and even in knowing the exact outcome of that risk Louise does it anyways for the sake of experiencing the maximums of joy with her daughter, even if the ending is tragic and she is left alone. The simultaneous joy and pain of being a parent etc. Anyways I love the reverence of time and doing what you are "supposed to do" because you know what is going to happen. I find it calming to think about the universe being a complete set story already that we can't realize simply due to our perception of time. Spoiler this may be due to my upbringing in Christianity, but all predestination aside, maybe determinism can be a way to find meaning in each moment more - if the way things are is the only way they can be, then instead of dwelling on possibilities and alternate universes, there is more value in understanding the now, what lead you here, where you are going - this has reduced to my ramblings now but I hope you can make some sense of it :'-)

margaret (formerly Samson)

Club book club book club book Reading spot: mainly in my bed, but we recently got a porch swing from a neighbor and it is glorious - i feel like im on vacation every evening that i spend on it (although we had a dew point if 73 recently and it felt like we would never be dry again.) I think my initial thoughts are best written in the order of which page brought them up. I'll probably have a gestures broadly thought on thr wholr thing later, but ill start with my notes for the sake of starting eith something. Pg. 92 (according to the book i have) -she makes a private joke about knowing 13 years ago that the carpets need to be clean, and the cheapest and easiest way to get it done would be to have a baby. But indeed, she did know 13 years before that the carpets would need to be cleaned then. ;) -she says the story begins with the heptapods, and says she thinks about how it ends, but what is the end of the story? The departure of the aliens? The death of the daughter? Her own death? To my reading, this was ambiguous. Perhaps this was intentional. 104 - the heptapods say they're here "to observe", but they also do much more than that. They eat a gourd, they teach humans their language, they run. What does Observation mean to a heptapod? Is it merely watching things unfold, or is it also participating in the things that are unfolding? And later on page 114, its remarked that the heptapods are an incurious bunch. What kind of tourist (traveling observer) is incurious?? I cant really understand that, wouldnt they want to seek out the richness, to not waste a possible interaction? 108 -semasiographic writing: finally a term for when my brain goes "!!!!!" Or some other scribble, but i don't have words for the feeing and trying to pin down the sound that it makes has me twisting my mouth around in frustration. 120 -"give birth to an amimated voodoo doll of myself" ugh yes, and ouch. Jo skonked her head on her bed the other day and i felt it in my spine, even before she started crying. And through Jo, through parenthood and caring for another human so viscerally, i also feel the pain of others, especially kids. Some other kid wiped out on the sidewalk a few weeks ago and i cringed so hard i was worried their parent would see and feel judged or something. I used to be able to watch sports fail compilations without even flinching. I've gone so soft. -also, the idea of being surprised, or experiencing the heart attack feeling, when you have access to all of the moments of your life, is difficult for me to wrangle in my mind. (I suppose i do jump at the dog jump-scare in the hunger games movie, although that is by definition designed to make you jump,and i havent watched that repeatedly enough to have timed out the exact number of beats of silence that you experience before the jump.) 123 -even just the imaginary visual that i have of a sentence calligraphed as intricately as the heptapods do, it is delightful. Delicious. Dicktastic. I want to see it, it makes my brain mouth water. It sounds so beautiful,and i dont have the imagination to picture it well enough. -she says the "what do you mean 'if'" joke is her favorite. I dont get the joke. My thanks to anyone who can explain it! 126 -"my initial strokes almost always turned out to be compatible with an elegant rendition of what i was trying to say" I feel this sometimes, although I'm my experience it feels more like serendipity than forethought. When we redid our kitchen, we didn't know we were doing it, but we put the dishwasher right across from where almost all our dishes live. Unloading it can often be done without moving your feet at all - it's glorious, but i can't take credit for it. I didn't intend it at all, we didn't see the future use when we placed the dishwasher or the cabinets. I didn't even have it in mind when i finally figured out where to put the plates and forks - it was just when i was unloading it for the first time that we realized, and looked at each other, and said "we couldn't have planned that better if we tried". 130 -"because im the mom and i said so" we all cringe at that idea, at thinking of ourselves as future parents contending with power struggles with such arbitrary force. But theres an episode of Bluey (born yesterday) that gives a more compassionate light on why thats sometimes just necessary. God i love bluey. 135 - ok we kind of do know what shed be if she tried to protect her daughter: Mother Gothel. And we kinda know how that story ends. 144 - "so thats what it looks like" um no. When the baby moves, it feels like thumps of gas. I get the narrative utility of recognizing her child on day 1, but clearly Ted Chiang has never been pregnant lol. - the concept of Feeling the Necessity of life vs Wading in the Surf for the rest of her life - that sounds like some of what was discussed in Perelandra, the second book of CS Lewis's space trilogy. The protagonist goes to a water planet, where there are little islands, but mostly water, and the person he meets there has such a wave-based approach to difficulty. She sees trials as being one kind of joy, and fun as another, all leading her to be wiser and more fully alive. She compares suffering to the waves. I might go try to read it again after seeing this line in Story of your Life. Ok. So that's the page-specific thoughts. My broad gestures are all about the meat of the thing - free will and how one continues to theoretically have it when bound by an incontrovertible knowledge of their future. Natthew noted about this more elegantly i think. I just don't get the sense of urgency thing. It kind of rings of like, the scene in How I Met Your Mother where Ted runs to the Mother's apartment before its time for them to meet, just so he can get a scrap more time with her. But that feels like a cheap comparison, for so many reasons. It's one thing to feel a sense of urgency or impatience to experience the joy that we know may be set before us. But this story gives us the complexity of seeing the grief set before us as well as the joy. And i just can't comprehend the impulse of reaching out to buy the bowl that will fall down and hurt my daughter. It's like Louise ends up in a place of hard determinism, but is hard determined to feel like she's got agency in the whole thing. And yeah - it all comes back to time being an illusion. (Fuck you CJ now i can't think that line without it feeling incomplete lol. You fuck--) it makes you wonder if there is such a thing as free will in an existence without time. This is something that's very briefly touched on by CS Lewis in The Great Divorce, and im going to share it because it has stuck with me: Because all answers deceive. If ye put the question from within Time and are asking about possibilities, the answer is certain. The choice of ways is before you. Neither is closed. Any man may choose eternal death. Those who choose it will have it. But if ye are trying to leap on into eternity, if ye are trying to see the final state of all things as it will be (for so ye must speak) when there are no more possibilities left but only the Real, then ye ask what cannot be answered to mortal ears. Time is the very lens through which ye see --small and clear, as men see through the wrong end of a telescope-- something that would otherwise be too big for ye to see at all. That thing is Freedom: the gift whereby ye most resemble your Maker and are yourselves parts of eternal reality. But ye can see it only through the lens of Time, in a little clear picture, through the inverted telescope. It is a picture of moments following one another and yourself in each moment making some choice that might have been otherwise. Neither the temporal succession nor the phantom of what ye might have chosen and didn't is itself Freedom. They are a lens. The picture is a symbol: but it's truer than any philosophical theorem (or, perhaps, than any mystic's vision) that claims to go behind it. For every attempt to see the shape of eternity except through the lens of Time destroys your knowledge of Freedom. Witness the doctrine of Predestination which shows (truly enough) that eternal reality is not waiting for a future in which to be real; but at the price of removing Freedom which is the deeper truth of the two. And wouldn't Universalism do the same? Ye cannot know eternal reality by a definition. Time itself, and all acts and events that fill Time, are the definition, and it must be lived. The Lord said we were gods. How long could ye bear to look (without Time's lens) on the greatness of your own soul and the eternal reality of her choice?'

saba

i like your clever view that anxiety is simply a symptom of our chronological thinking. i think jealousy is a symptom of our individualism. body dysmorphia. we are all simply too big. we wish we could be all of it. and yet are trapped. we are all so much more than these silly skin suits. and it hurts. maybe it also hurts that we are stuck in this string of chronology

Lou Corben

the "What do you mean 'if'" joke = inevitability again :) Everyone, especially teenagers, blames their parents for "everything that's wrong with their lives". Laughing at the inevitable painful parts that come with parenthood x

Halley

This is loosely grouped by themes and assembling my notes from first readthrough + reading comments + second reading + related media. I'm gonna reply to other comments here and pretend to tag people so I don't get too confused. I hope its ok to share some links too because I just find that everything I'm reading and watching is connecting (esp to things we talk about here) and I'm loving finding those connections! performing: The line "it was like performing in a play" is where it clicked for me, this idea of having purposeful agency with a known/predetermined future (as @ellen so beautifully articulated). It isn't an imposed order to struggle against, rather it's like living out a play you want to see carried to conclusion.. You cannot change the story any more than you can change your role in it. But you can commit to performing it enthusiastically. Her daughter saying "because I want to hear it!" was such a sweet and perfect anecdote to illustrate it. 'he was perfectly oblivious of the script, yet his responses matched his assigned lines exactly.' We put ourselves in boxes, assign ourselves roles with our 'free will'. To free ourselves we have to practice stepping out of the role we're inhabiting sometimes, to expand our range of possibilities. I think this is a powerful function of acting, that you can temporarily inhabit a life you'd never get the chance to experience. language: @annieliz I also took some linguistics classes in college and found it fascinating! Many of the concepts I learned have stuck with me, and I enjoyed the description of Louise doing the painstaking work of dissecting and explaining all the pieces that have to be put together and considered. It made me a little nostalgic and I watched this video of Steven Pinker last night as a refresher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-B_ONJIEcE&ab_channel=BigThink (I first heard him on an episode of Thinking Allowed, my new favorite YouTube channel for deliciously hurting my brain but I'll get to that..) Language as synesthetic- integrated in the full sensory experience. (re: @hazelhaunt) Words are like little sensory nuggets- artistic symbols passed down by generations, formed to give form to some formless idea. In this way language is the continuous art product of civilizations, also a medium in itself. bodily morphology: (In my notes there's a little drawing of a heptagraph) I googled 'morphology' after writing this part's heading to make sure I had the right word in mind, and it gave me two definitions which both complement what I wanted to say- one biological, one linguistic. In my linguistics class I remember making tree diagrams, with branches, to dissect the structure of a sentence. This led me to thinking about the biological makeup of language, the mathematical functions that must characterize grammar and syntax, and the physical systems that allow us to produce and understand language. I find it so interesting the how the heptopod language is consequential and reflective of their anatomy. Also the differences between written and spoken language, with spoken being more primal and universal. The fact that heptapod writing is a bodily function/fluid must have an impact on the development of the writing system and its usage. Having different perceptions of time based on bodily experience makes a lot of sense too- think planetary time, tree time, river time, nematode time, elephant time, mantis time. Even personally I feel like my perception of time changes with the weather/temperature/season affecting my body (right now it is so hot it feels like time is dragggging), or even if there is music playing. alien epistemology: Ever since I read Watchmen I've thought of aliens as a really interesting plot/literary device, serving as the ultimate opposition, a blank slate foil for humanity. In popular usage it also could mean anything foreign/other/unknown. A true encounter with that which is 'alien' forcing some kind of reckoning with what you thought you knew. When I think about what it would be like to live as some other (earthly) life form, whether plant or deep sea creature or microorganism, it is such an incomprehensibly different experience that it does feel alien to me. In that sense, I couldn't help but imagine Robin Wall Kimmerer envisioning aliens as kin, as cosmic relatives sharing the spark of life in common with us. We have only a tiny limited sensorial window to experience reality, to try to come to terms with different ways of knowing. I think it is important to practice to extracting ourselves from our anthropomorphic biases of observational understanding to get to some greater truth. time/light: I recently discovered this hidden treasure trove of televised interviews from the 80s with influential thinkers on topics of consciousness, philosophy, psychology, etc. I think y'all might really enjoy them so I encourage you to check out the channel!! (https://www.youtube.com/@ThinkingAllowedTV) I watched this one with Peter Russell recently and it really complemented this story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w-0yfA6Gqw&ab_channel=NewThinkingAllowedwithJeffreyMishlove He starts by talking about the paradox of time- the inescapable present moment we experience, though we are usually thinking about the past or future. He also makes the point that at the speed of light, time stops- from the perspective of light, there is only the present. In the human experience, and in the behavior of light, there is a parallel of experiencing only the present moment. On second read I noted: Heptopods have the perspective of light. uncategorized thoughts: Thanks @saba for the article explaining "I would prefer not to"! Reading your comment I was thinking about how my convictions about voting have changed since learning more anarchist political philosophy. I think there are a lot of ways we're often asked to make a choice or convinced there is no choice when there is in fact a third way, a creative resistance that breaks the mold expected of us. I'm also reading "How to Do Nothing" right now (thanks to Dr. Fatima's suggestion) and it fits right into this discussion! I keep thinking about @saba's comment/quote: "Repetition is a form of change." This feels important, to value and honor the work of maintenance, upkeep, enacting patterns. a lot of the crafts I do and also a lot of what goes into gardening is very repetitive but working towards something greater. these things soothe and calm my overactive neurodivergent brain. I also want to recommend a narrated essay from Emergence Magazine Podcast: "Creaturely migrations on a breathing planet- David Abrams" It made me ponder instinct/free will from another perspective: do animals 'navigate' themselves or are they being pushed/pulled by planetary forces? Again, the anthropomorphic bias comes into play. (re: @sal3em) 'the familiar was far away, while the bizarre was close at hand.' -just liked this line. The inevitability of her daughter growing up and not being able to stop her from doing things that will hurt her makes me think of my little sister, and how I desperately wish I could teach her everything I've learned so she won't suffer as much, won't make the same mistakes. But the only way she can learn is by making those mistakes herself. I might be a little bothered not to know why the heptapods came and left? I understand that their non-sequential nature wouldn't require a cause/effect reason but I wonder if there is a subtextual purpose for them to come to earth at all that we're meant to figure out. Peter Russell talked about how the evolution of language in humans has given us the ability to share information and build a collective body of knowledge, to achieve greater things through connection and giving us a heightened awareness. Thinking of humanity in this way, as a kind of planetary nervous system to transmit information, I'm thinking the reason for their arrival could be to teach humans their mode of perception. The way everyone at all the looking glasses is connected and sharing information seems to support this, as does the fact that Louise is a teacher. I also wonder, since she goes on to teach heptapod language, do any of her students achieve this altered consciousness too? Does their knowledge continue to spread after they leave? I hope I can one day get a copy of the book and read the rest of the stories!

ellen

!!! 👀 what languages do you speak? what do you mean about people changing? 👀 say more about that? 👀

ellen

>> Does this worldview make the heptapods inherently at peace and peaceful beings (are we calling them people? If Robin Wall Kimmerer had anything to say…)? ahahaha this cracked me up. you've convinced me. they're people now (?) (!) >> Aaand one day I must write my video essay on fate and trauma in Romeo and Juliet... yes :3 one day you must :3 that separation between make love/make you, in the final sentence, made me insane.

ellen

hello hazel welcome !! the beach atmosphere feels like it would really suit this story actually--being able to finish and then wander up and down the ocean, seeing evidence of the tides &endless blue over the horizon....! >> The illness death makes Hannah's conception feel more like an obligation to fate that Louise has to incubate rather than an act of genuine love and excitement to be a mother to this child. no yes i think you and nat make great points. i suspect the filmmakers intention was to add a LOT of weight to the question of having a baby at all (do or dont you bring life into the world that you know is """doomed" unpreventably) but i think the stakes actually feel much higher in the climbing accident death precisely BECAUSE hannah is NOT unpreventably anything--louise's choices and ethics and philosophy have to be active/intentional every day of hannah's life, not just a single question (do we or dont we). >> Our senses define the edge of consciousness, and because we are born explorers and questors after the unknown, we spend a lot of our lives pacing that Windswept perimeter. DIANE!!!!????? i just want to TALK, diane!!!!!!!!!!!

ellen

i'm sorry for the loss of your grandfather. you articulated that feeling beautifully &painfully; i hope you've been able to find some peace in those woods. >> I mentioned the feeling of knowing you'll remember something earlier, and I think the opposite of that is deja vu. Deja vu is the feeling that you are repeating something in the past but can't quite remember what. It's another way of time collapsing, but it places emphasis on your past actions instead of your future watching. this is a really good point. you made me curious and i went back through the story to learn that at NO point does chiang write about deja vu--louise is always emotionally written as her memories feeling 'crisp' in some way, not time-faded and generic in the deja vu sense as you explained. to me that implies the heptapod perception has major focus on immediacy and freshness, the experience of all your memories &understanding of the future having an EMOTIONAL newness no matter if they haven't happened or if it's your thousandth time reminiscing. i wonder what that would do to a person?

ellen

line from the empty homogeneous time article you linked that i liked a lot: >> The problem with our being browbeaten to see time as empty and homogeneous is that we lose recourse to one of our most important ways of finding meaning in our lives: constructing narratives. As individuals, we tell our lives as a kind of story. The past and the future reciprocally give and receive meaning from the present and from each other. like some kind of Story. of Your L [big hook drags me offstage]

CJ The X

I think the blending of the narrative language into one simultaneous present wonderfully blurs the lines between reality and perspective. There's plenty of insinuation she is seeing the future, but causally you could still posit that she's just narrating FROM the future but is expressing/experiencing all of her memories simultaneously. Is she seeing the wooden bowl and seeing the future where it hurts her daughter (feeling compelled to say yes to a script that involves pain), or is she remembering that wooden bowl and ascribing profound meaning to its inevitability. The whole focus of the story is that there's really no difference. Both are the same interconnected reality. Either causality is barrelling forth and we can't change the past so we are in one perfect consequential timeline, or it's all happening simultaneously forwards and backwards, the teleological future causing the past as much as the past causes the future. Our obsession with trying to nail down "which one is causing which" is really just an expression of our commitment to a causal reality. It requires a brain rewiring and I think the story successfully consistently produces it, like a surgeon and like a sculptor

ellen

>> We have only a tiny limited sensorial window to experience reality, to try to come to terms with different ways of knowing. I think it is important to practice to extracting ourselves from our anthropomorphic biases of observational understanding to get to some greater truth. that's really well put. 'tiny sensorial window' especially underscores your other points about morphology and the literal physicality of aliens-as-foils-to-humans; their bodies don't perceive the same way we do and all of humanity developed based on what our information our bodies could comprehend. do you have any speculation on the heptapod motives? to be perfectly honest, that's one of the few things i'm incurious about in SOYL and was perfectly happy to just have them appear and vanish at ted chiang's convenience. >> Thanks @saba for the article explaining "I would prefer not to"! Reading your comment I was thinking about how my convictions about voting have changed since learning more anarchist political philosophy. I think there are a lot of ways we're often asked to make a choice or convinced there is no choice when there is in fact a third way, a creative resistance that breaks the mold expected of us. I'm also reading "How to Do Nothing" right now (thanks to Dr. Fatima's suggestion) and it fits right into this discussion! if how to do nothing &anarchy are interesting you then i absolutely second saba's recommendation for "barnaby the scrivener: a story of wall-street." it's available here on project gutenberg :) https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11231/pg11231-images.html

Adison

hello! i am late to the party but i am here with my thoughts. i’m am going to break it up into two sections- heptapod thoughts and experience/time/louise thoughts. to start with some heptapods quotes : “i wonder if it’s a consequence of their bodies’ radial symmetry: their bodies have no ‘forward’ direction, so maybe their doesn’t either. highly neat.” (106) “ease of learning isn’t the primary force in such different cultural or cognitive roles that using separate languages makes more sense than using different forms of the same one.” (110) “it’s essentially a grammar in two directions.” (109) “for the heptapods, all language was performative. instead of using language to inform, they used language to actualize. sure, heptapods already knew what would he said in any conversation; but in order for their knowledge to be true, the conversation would have to take place.” (138) i really enjoy chiang’s heptapods, and i think that are one of the more realistic interpretations of alien life. they are interesting, complex creatures who experience the world in a radically different way. the ability to perceive the present as a performance of the inevitable is deeply profound, and activated a lot of feelings in me. i felt both alienated from and connected to this experience of reality, and it left me feeling the same towards my own experiences after i finished the story. i have to live in the present, i have free will, but time rotates around me in a way i will never understand. also they got cool legs. anyways, onto louise! louise/experience/time quotes- “sometimes it’s good to wait. the anticipation makes it more fun when you get there.” (111) ““one moment you’ll be sprawled in your seat, completely self-conscious, all child, the next, you’ll toss your hair with a practiced casualness, like a fashion model in training.” (114) “living with you will be like aiming for a moving target; you’ll always be further along than i expect.” (115) “i found myself in a meditative gauge, contemplating the way in which premises and conclusions were interchangeable. there was no direction inherent in the way propositions were connected, no ‘train of thought’ moving along a particular route; all the components in an act of reasoning were equally powerful, all having identical precedence.” (127) “what if the experience of knowing the future changed a person? what if it evoked a sense of urgency, a sense of obligation to act precisely as the knew she would?” (132) salad bowl scene (133) i appreciate how emotional this story is, and i appreciate how it treats emotional experiences with the depth they deserve. and not only is pain held up as profound, but joy is too. louise not only experiences the pain of the future she accepts/creates, but she is allowed to feel all of the joy. i appreciate her willingness to participate in her own fate, and i appreciate chiang’s understanding of agency. she buys the salad bowl. she decides to play her part. there is something about her longing for the simultaneous past/present/future, her acceptance of the sadness and pain she will/has faced, and her ability to love deeply that i find extremely admirable.

SkateLouis

I really connected with the concept of how our language shapes our filosophy and world view in the most primal of ways. Learning a language like esperanto that's highly methodic and repeatable in its form gave me a greater sense of comunication and understanding of other languages and how THEY are highly methodic and repeatable and how that's beautiful! And I feel that's Louise's journey, learning a different time-language that redefines her previous understanding of continuity, not destroying it, but enhancing its meaning. Art occupies a similar position in my opinion, as it is language at core. I loved every single Ted Chian story i've read so far, he really is the GOAT "Understand" comes to me as a close second, but "Story of Your Life" is truly a one of a kind piece!

JustConnor

second last book of my kti collection and perhaps my favorite. i am very much biased, cj’s arrival video literally fundamentally changed the way i think and view reality. i am not an atheist anymore because of that shit, so safe to say reading this book has been a long time coming. i was actually planning on reading this before i even knew kti did this so that’s a nice moment. so this was fucking amazing as expected. the flow of the book is much more interesting than the movie, there are just a few moments in the movie where we feel louise and her child’s relationship. but in the book the pages are chalk full of them. i also really like how in depth the understanding of language goes, i feel like i more properly understand the concepts arrival was trying to communicate. it’s much easier to do that in book form so makes sense. the whole thing with the looking at something from 2 different perspectives gives me a lot of good vibes. i also fucking love the beauty of playing your role even if you know it. so yeah overall really amazing and i’ll probably read it again and again cause it’s one of those pieces of art that changed my life. i am now a very spiritual person thanks to arrival and now the book enlightens me more on that. the movie has its own strengths, all the stuff the book does better is just cause of the medium imo i think. fuck so lila is all there is left, very exciting.