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This is super interesting. (Patreon)

Published:
2023-04-10 22:43:38
Imported:
2026-06

Content

I never really thought about that aspect of her relationship with him. I mean she did go on a stadium tour for Rep, but she did nearly no promo, and honestly compared to today, 2018/2019 is like NOTHING. She’s even more famous now than she was then. It’s so strange how outside influences can really affect your relationships - I‘m not even saying this is 100% factual but it’s definitely interesting to think about how the pandemic could’ve bolstered their relationship, and Midnights and the tour being as big as it is starting to chip away at it. 

My brother said she needs to find someone who just does not give a shit about any of this, like a potato farmer. LMFAO. Like, say what you want about her and her potato farmer! He’s off the grid.  

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Comments

courtney

Bejeweled is just hitting so hard right now

shannymac

Before the pandemic she was talking in Miss Americana like her career was winding down, so when people say things like “oh the whole album was about wanting to marry him, it’s all a lie” - she probably really did think her main pop girl days were coming to a close and she probably really did want to marry him *at that time*, especially because he was the angel that got her through the cancellation. And then the pandemic happened and she HAD to slow down. Maybe from his angle he was like “this is great, she does surprise drops, barely any interviews…she’s super famous but we’re hiding out in London or wherever, I’m super private so I like this, this relationship works for me.” Maybe that’s what he thought it would be like. And from her angle she wrote more, released two highly successful albums and probably saw that she wasn’t done yet even though she was *gasp* 30. She thought - and wanted- to be a main pop girl again, and maybe that was more important than getting married right now. The pandemic changed things for a lot of us so I totally buy that it shifted priorities for them, too.

Abby

i honestly don’t even think she saw this resurgence in her career coming. yeah she’ll always be successful and we always knew she is going to have a lasting legacy but i don’t think she even anticipated how many people she would draw in with folklore. i was honestly surprised with how much success midnights garnered in terms of album sales.. i think this is true and joe probably was not prepared for her to come back from 2016 bigger and better than before.

Rebecca Dennison

Gives that pointed remark before "The Lucky One" some context.

Lizzy

I have a hunch they were thriving at first even during rep stadium tour because they were in the honeymoon phase. Then during pandemic they were in a bubble so they could keep thriving. I think taylor was eager to get back out there in 2021 with her rerecordings and Joe had more acting jobs. After conversations with friends he did the movie with margaret qualley while taylor and Jack worked on midnights. Maybe for a few years they got used to being apart more and it started to feel fine. I still feel taylor wouldn't have been so obsessed with joe in the first place if she didn't feel so fragile and betrayed careerwise. As the success of her re-recordings lit her back up, she started to need joe less and less and only gain more fans.I love the songs she wrote about joe but she does speak of him like a forever king, there were some fantastical elements to the way she saw him for sure. She needed time to grow up, mellow out, learn about love within a safe relationship, and write yoyok.

Taylor L

it makes a lot of sense that they grew apart. taylor’s life was sooo different in 2016. between the pandemic, re-recordings, eras tour, midnights, etc. I don’t think she could’ve planned this far ahead! i really do think they intended to get married at some point in time but just grew in different directions. def agree that she’d do well with someone off the grid — that would be so interesting to see.. taylor dating jake from state farm type beat lol

Meridith

I was also thinking about this and I think the best kind of person for her to date would be someone older, who has already been established as a legend in their field, and is now for the most part just kicking back, enjoying their riches and only doing passion projects. That way there would (hopefully) be no jealousy, they would be able to cheer her on but also be able understand and make light of the craziness of the world she now operates in. They would also for the most part be available to be a cat babysitter and show up to support all her shows awards etc. but whomst could this be, I wonder 👀

Ciara

Taylor did not write 'The Way I Love You' aged 17/18, and proceed to sing it aged 31 with the same gravitas for it not to be the sheer essence of her character when it comes to BEING in a relationship. "He calls exactly when he says he will" = nothing else going on, too safe, a doormat, A YES MAN See also "screaming and fighting and kissing in the rain, 2am and I'm cursing your name" = "he wanted it comfortable I wanted that pain" I dunno, I dunno... its all click click clacking for me... Truly though, it can be concluded and surmised as a successful relationship which lasted 6 years. She goes through phases when it comes to love (as we all do). A particular demographic of the fandom will acutely relate to this relationship breakdown without further explanation. All the information we had is all we needed ..6 years together.. as adults we can all read between the lines. They fell together, then fell apart ... its a very humanising experience for Taylor, and as a patron of her artistic prowess I await with baited breath for her perspective in due course

Ksenia

This confirms Taylor's sky-rocketing Post-Folklore ambition led to an increased workload for her that emotionally drifted them apart around 2021 when Taylor was cooking her feature film and Red TV and plotting Midnights. Her goals changed. It's normal. The power dynamic naturally puts the ball in her court so I don't think Joe pulled the final trigger. My educated guess is the distance wasn't new: they tried since 2021 when things busied for Taylor to make it work and Taylor was finally like, goodbye lotsa luv babe. I am proud of Taylor for breaking up with Joe. That took bravery, self-worth, and self-knowledge. As for Taylor's future partners, I don't think Taylor will date Pete Davidson. I think she'll inevitably date a billionaire (or billionaire's son like Kate Winslet marrying RIchard Branson's son), tech guy (like Miranda Kerr with Taylor's ex-hookup Evan Spiegel of Snapchat), rich art person (Jennifer Lawnrence's husband Cooke Mulroney) or nepo baby in fashion/publishing/venture capitalism like Natalia Vodianova with her Arnault or the Olsens and Karlie Kloss with a Kushner😞 like what other demo do celeb women pull from beyond Hollywood.

Elena Gerhardy

Loving all the takes on this thread. I can’t handle Twitter right now, I keep seeing stuff like ‘HOW do you just grow apart?’ and ‘why did it take Joe 7 years to decide he couldn’t handle her fame??’ and then I click on the profiles and it’s literally 16 and 18 yos.. I just can’t engage with that.

courtney

reliving the moment when I played Maroon for the first time and thought it sounded like KOMH intro on rep tour and now I'm thinking 🤔 Molly if you see this maybe you were onto something with your dossier about Maroon being about Joe lol

Louise Selway

I am just grateful to have this space to discuss this, and not have to wade into the depths of the complete nothing knowers on other forums. Much love to the snakes 🐍

Elena Gerhardy

In some ways it’s really great that Taylor and Joe had that covid lockdown experience together because it gave them a taste of what life could be like if Taylor was more of a homebody, not getting photographed etc. There’s no reason they couldn’t try to keep many aspects of that lifestyle, if that was what they both really wanted, and yet, Taylor’s now doing the biggest stadium tour ever.. Still, the fact that they were able to (forced to) have a quiet existence for awhile has probably helped Taylor have a lot more certainty that this is the right decision.

em

re-listening to midnights (and also renegade) i feel like i’m gaining such a different perspective… the music is hitting so differently

Liv

The part about her friends thinking it would be a temporary break was really interesting. Maybe there was more back and forth than most people realized? It seems like their relationship was not as perfect as a lot of swifties think, ie the girlies who can’t even admit they broke up.

Kyle Labe

I feel like with the rep tour too it was still a relatively new relationship and so fresh and fun to travel around the world but then flash forward six years and have that same fame multiply, would be a lot for someone who never was really comfortable with that limelight

Nicole S

he wanted a bride she was making her own name. COULD HE SAY THE SAME? no.

magicmeyers

Okay I'm about to drop a hot take that nobody asked for nor is ready for. Joe had a LOT to gain from this relationship. I don't understand why everyone (including Taylor) was always like "he's such a saint, he sacrifices so much to make the relationship work, blah blah" like BESTIE, he was a nobody when they got together!!! A nobody!!!!!!!! And then one of the most famous, talented people of all time fell madly in love with him and wanted to take him jetsetting around the world and rent castles for Christmas??? Hello????? She got him a Grammy, do you think she did that against his will??? Homeboy stumbled into a really sweet deal. Even during Snakegate Taylor was still massively successful/famous and I think to imply Joe didn't know what he was getting into is wild. To be clear, I think Joe loved Taylor but not enough to marry her (otherwise they would have been married during the Lover era when she was basically begging him to propose). I think he enjoyed the luxury lifestyle until he realized her connections couldn't get him a decent acting career and then the positives no longer outweighed him being relegated to/mocked as Mr. Taylor Swift. Also Taylor finally woke up and realized she could do better, hence her hot girl Midnights era. Ugh I wish Tom Hiddleston was still single.

dystopichippy

Almost like a trauma bond relationship that ran its course. Another angle... Given her own emotionally age was for suuuure stunted by her fame, i wonder if she views this as like her first real relationship? The mention of situationships on midnights almost reminds me of like the way one would form crushes and relations in college that were more about friendship groups and proximity more than genuine relationships. If that was part of it coupled with her own stunted emotional maturity, I mean no wonder she isn't ready to settle down. NO WONDER she loves the 'lavender haze.' Even tho she does love the concept of 'the one' and fate and stars aligning yadda yadda, i bet she would also be excited at the prospect about what else is out there.

Bryson Moran

i need you all to listen to dear reader RIGHT NOW bc that song is giving im a mess and im about to break it off with my boyfriend

Cathy Stephens

Yeah so much of what makes a relationship sustainable is being at similar places in your lives and having goals that align. TS has always wanted world domination & JA I think just wants a really quiet life.

Kyley

I completely agree with the trauma bond relationship comment. I was in a 3 year relationship I thought was “healthy” but once we broke things off, I came to realize we were together for so much longer than needed due to the fact that we had gone through hard times together. Trauma relationships are hard to quit because it’s an addiction to the person that made you feel safe during tumultuous times. I am so proud of Taylor for healing after all she’s been through, I can see why she would want to stay in the lavender haze for as long as she can.

Eden McFadden

@vanessa there was a live stream of joes grandfathers funeral

Mary Paige

My next question is do we think we’re going to be seeing more candids, her more active online, etc?

Ria

Agree with the trauma bond relationship comments tbh

Iman

I never really thought of how COVID/her disappearing era would have been so wildly different from her life now. And tbh if this is true I really don’t blame him. Like fame really does sound horrible and seeing as how she’s exponentially MORE famous than when they met I can see how that was probably too much for him to handle. It makes listening to Peace feel like being stabbed 🙃

Kaitlin E

Echoing others, it’s such a breathe of fresh air being able to have conversations with people who know the meaning of “facetious” and don’t freak out at each other for having slightly different POVs. Finally a safe place for the snakes to have healthy debates. Anywho, I completely agree that songs like Midnight Rain, Maroon and Bejeweled hit different now, but would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on the below: 1. Something that makes me scratch my head is how she must have written the aforementioned Midnights songs way before her relationship ended, I think? It seems like Glitch was potentially one of the last additions to the album, as it references being with Joe for 2,190 days (exactly 6 years) which based on their timeline was likely August/Sept. Do we think she had these feelings and got away with putting them on the album under the guise of them being about something else, or that they just in hindsight happen to relate? 2. I am still perplexed as to why she released All The Girls basically exactly when reports say they broke up. “I want to teach you how forever feels…” it just seems like a really odd choice. The non-problematic side of me thinks she maybe did it as a sweet reference to how she/Joe ultimately will lead each other to the right future partners. However, the evil Kermit Taylor side of me feels like it might’ve been a dig at Joe somehow. Just seems like something unhinged and chaotic the queen of petty would do (I say with peace and love).

Nicole S

i saw a tweet mentioning how perhaps Taylor was only extremely private all this time BECAUSE OF JOE… now that he’s been flung, perhaps she will go back to her being more open with her fans (not that she owes us anything). Thoughts?

Cardigan

I think some people forget that sometimes relationships end and it's no one fault. Of course we don't have the full story, but according to what we know it's neither Joe's or Taylor's fault sometimes people have different goals in life. It's understandable that Joe struggled with fame and privacy (even though i felt they did a good job on keeping it private) fame is hard. I'm sad for Taylor because regardless of the circumstances a nearly 7 year relationship ending is painful and I hope she finds all the happiness. I think some people should treat this with more compassion and empathy. But why are you LEAVEing flowers on Cornlia Street. That's too much.

Kyley

I also want to add about the trauma bond relationship idea because certain songs are hitting different…one of the things people tend to do is become chronically scared that the other person will leave them. We see Taylor often sing about her fear of Joe leaving her. Think Afterglow, The Archer, Anti-Hero, and even as early as New Year’s Day. As someone who’s been through a bond like this, I understand now why I related to those songs so hard.

Katie Prinkey

I love reading everyone’s opinion about this, especially since outside the sacred snake space people are being CRAZY. They originally refused to believe it and that no “real fan” would care about it, and now people are acting as if they’ve never seen a break up before & are sobbing 😭. I think Taylor is pretty much okay, maybe a little sad but she’s clearly living her life rn. I broke off a 3 year relationship and was perfectly fine after because I realized it wasn’t a good relationship & we grew to be two different people — it happens. It’s just really interesting how fans are reacting to this on various platforms

Lígia Xavier

This all makes sense! Also does anyone think her path as a filmmaker might have caused some cracks? I see Taylor as a "nepo baby director" she has the space she has now because she is Taylor Swift! No other director in the beginning will have Del Toro compliments and a Oscar campaign for a short movie/music video. Maybe Joe felt weird about all this, he in the industry for a long time but nothing big... Maybe he tried work with her, maybe he tried pull strings and find his way in and she said back off.

Lisa Hurley

Remember in 2016 when Taylor and Tom were dating and he apparently lost his chance at playing James Bond because of such a high profile relationship? I feel like that’s gonna be the narrative this time, only maybe on a smaller scale since he’s a wax figure and all lol

Melina

“Dear reader if it feels like a trap you’re already in one” “but darling darling please you wouldn’t take my word for it if you knew who was talking if you knew where i was walking to A HOUSE NOT A HOME ALL ALONE CAUSE NOBODYS THERE” what if she has been telling us through her music all this time

Jelousyje

At the end of the day it all comes to he couldn't stan the girlboss that is Taylor

Elena Gerhardy

Request for Madeline and Zack: when you revisit Midnights tracks with this new context, would you please do an updated track ranking? Idk about you but there’s so many tracks I wrote off, like Labyrinth, and now they’re hitting MUCH harder.

Nicole S

Also, I wonder what her home base will be now that joe is out of the picture. NYC? London? LA? Who!! Knows!!

Leslie

Ok more thoughts. Does anyone remember an interview she did during 1989 era, I think maybe Rolling Stone, where she said something along the lines of the only way a relationship would work was if the guy just saw her as "a girl," not as Taylor Swift(TM)? I think Joe was that guy and I think that's one reason she was initially so obsessed with him. He barely knew who she was before they met, wasn't really familiar with her music, just liked her as a person. After the pandemonium of 1989 and the Kimye fallout etc. I'm sure it was such a relief to her to just be "a girl" to someone. I'm reminded of the story of when she first met his mom and his mom told them to go for a walk while she cooked dinner and she didn't understand why Taylor couldn't. Apparently Joe didn't even fill his family in on what a huge celebrity he was dating. I think she was really into the idea that he was "high above the whole scene," just so cool and unaffected by the world of celebrity, but at a certain point I think that could start to feel like he sees himself as above HER. I have a feeling this is one of the "personality differences" alluded to in this piece, just totally different attitudes toward fame and the Hollywood machine. As much as she hates the darker side of it, Taylor LOVES the spotlight and he may have seen that side of her as kind of frivolous.

Julia A

I was thinking about this today and sm of midnights is making sense now. MIDNIGHT RAIN IN HINDSIGHT???? “He was sunshine I was midnight rain”??? After the last track on Lover was legitimately called Daylight?????? Absolutely wild.

Carla

I agree with all the general consensus here!! It's all clicking. In my humble onion, she needs to date an industry executive who understands her level of celebrity but isn't profiting off of it. The bridge of anti-hero was so telling in that she has SO MUCH MONEY and people can take advantage of that. So much tabloid drama is about celebrity divorces, custody battles, prenups, etc. etc. There's a genuine fear that people only want things from her so if it's just some non-celebrity rich person, that'd be a slay! I just get why it didn't work out ... taylor still is committed to her career now that it's taken the biggest heights and she still needs to ruin scooters livelihood!!! she's protected her peace for TOO LONG

Amy

Nawt the effing duolingo owl jumping in on this. STAY AWAY FROM HER! GET A JOB

Anna Cork

I think it’s either gotta be the potato farmer or someone who is also very famous and successful in their field. I think she thought she was gonna marry a future oscar winner and as I become more and more clear that wasn’t happening it got embarrassing for both her AND joe.

Ally ❤️

At the end of the day, she’s the man 🤷‍♀️

Brittany

I believe she truly loved Joe but now I’m wondering how she must have felt like she had to make herself smaller to be with him and settle. Like, she was so concerned with her “expiration date” as a pop star that I’m sure she thought she was masterminding her way slowly out of the public’s eye on her terms before she “aged out of the industry” but then realized she’s Taylor freaking swift and is the music industry. All of her changed like midnight and all the bubbles she was in were actually cocoons and she’s bursting out of them. I am excited for whatever is next for her!

Anna Cork

from the daily mail so take it with a grain of salt but “It's been hard for Joe trying to make it in Hollywood and not quite becoming leading man material while dating one of the most famous women in the world over the last six years.” LIKE THATS LOSER MATERIAL!!!!!

Em

Bit cynical but I wonder how much he was holding her back. On Reputation Taylor seems to make it clear that she was going through a hard time when they met, almost like he was some kind of saviour. Maybe it got problematic when her career was on the up and he wasn't as supportive when she was very much outshining him.

slooker

The lavender haze was a cute sentiment, but haze is obstructing

Ruby J

Okay, hot take, I don’t think Taylor called it off! I think she may have cheated and things were rocking and she was apathetic for awhile, BUT… We all know Taylor has hang ups and is stunted in ways/has some toxic ideals about relationships. From what she says in a lot of songs about him coupled with GreatWar, I really feel like he taught her a lot of lessons about love and relationships and what’s reasonable to expect from a partner - adding more fodder to people saying they had issues. Being on the Taylor side of a similar relationship, I know it’s hard for the Joe of the relationship when your partner is patient with you while you unlearn some of your toxic traits. And I feel like he was there for it cause he loved her but then when he thought she wasn’t as committed as he was cause she wouldn’t settle down (maybe cheated), he had to go. And I think her taking accountability throughout the album and not disparaging Joe in Midnights and making it seem like it was her fault is not because she did the dumping but because she has actually grow and knows she fucked up and this is like a love letter in a way. The Great War STINGSSSS in retrospect cause she VOWS I WILL ALWAYS BE YOURS CAUSE WE SURVIVED THE GREAR WAR. Ughhh!! I need the new album NOWWWW!!!