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The Worst Takes of 2025 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-12-29 09:00:10
Imported:
2026-08

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Content

The boys catalog the definitive worst takes of the year, from the pundits who misunderstood our political moment to a guy who wants to have sex with a computer.

You can play this episode directly through Patreon or use our RSS feed to add it to your podcast app. Here are the instructions from Patreon.

Leave your suggestions for future bonus episodes in the comments!

Comments

Johnny 5

Worst take of 2025 is undoubtedly Peter spouting YIMBY bullshit.

ToshToneToblerone

Suggestion for future *standard* episode. Paul McKenna 'I can make you thin', plays into Mike's playbook, he also has multiple other self help books that would give you plenty of background stuff to talk about. Hoping now that Mike's not already covered it on his other podcast. Anyway, time to listen to this while I drive home!

Marek

Been looking forward to this for months tbh

Madeline Putney

If the late 2024 take that "Brian Thompson was the real working class hero" by Bret Stephens doesn't come up, then I want a recount

Heather G

Thank you both for this and all the other entertaining doses of sanity in 2025!

Cate Kneale

I think the best take of 2025 was that everybody is 12 and the awful gross AI piece definitely supports this hypothesis.

RAvina

Havinagoodtime, boyz? Thank you for all the great takes this year!

Vaidehi Krishnan

See you next year guys! Can’t wait for a good mix of dumb political books and dumb dumb books next year! You bring us smiles in very dark times!………Like Santa on Christmas 🎅

Owen Symes

I'd love a bonus episode on the idea that Trump is a "Russian asset." Seems like a liberal delusion and it really annoys me lol!

Cristina

Worst take of 2025 gotta be the Indie Game Awards not giving Silksong ANYTHING AT ALL. Anyways, thank you for another great episode to close off the year with ❤️

Danica Lamphere

Could you post the Elon Musk Episodes here both Amazon Music and CastBox are refusing to play them...

Fernando Rosales

Kids are NOT having gender reassignment surgeries...but I do know of a case where over half the classroom identified as a gender not assigned at birth. Anecdotal, so that might be literally the only case but my point is that maybe there was something to the social contagion. Idk if that's even a problem but you do have to understand how that could be a non bigoted concern for parents.

Lexi House

I guarantee you that whoever told you that anecdote was lying, there is not a classroom where over half of the children are trans. That’s just not happening anywhere. Being a subscriber to this Patreon and falling for an anecdote like that is kind of crazy.

Irene

see also, phrase "social contagion" betrays gender essentialist mindset

Cate Kneale

But what does that mean? They're perhaps using different pronouns and changing their names or actively seeking trans healthcare? I think it's fine for kids to think about gender and experiment with their identity. Many of us did this as teenagers and then changed our minds and the small percentage who are trans will also hopefully find the environment more accepting. I work at a university and a tiny number of students are trans, as you'd expect. The social contagion idea is really part of the moral panic and the same thing was said about gay people when I was young, that knowing gay people exist could turn you gay and that homosexuals were recruiting young people. We know this is nonsense but it's been recycled by transphobes wholesale.

Zee G

you probably already clocked this but the way my jaw DROPPED at david brooks writing 'strangers in their own land'...welcome back enoch powell

Emily Andrews

Ah - but the thing you’re missing about Wife Guys is that, notoriously, there is quite the crossover between “terrible husband” and “massive wife guy” (note: not ALL wife guys).

mguin

I have a fancy-pants rice cooker that plays a little tune, I don't think it wrote it for me. The AI actress stuff creeps me out so thoroughly, dudes are actively encouraging AI psychosis to avoid considering women as people. Absolutely made of red flags.

Meg

See: Ned Fulmer (a YT star whose whole personality was living his wife and then turned out to have been having a year long affair with his HR employee)

Stuff

This is how I'm finding out that apparently not everyone who subscribes also listens to and subscribes to their other podcasts I guess. Michael literally did an entire two part series about this on Maintenance Phase and how the social contagion theory is unproven at best and complete lies perpetuated to harm trans people at worst

coffin rehearsal

This is always my favorite part of the year! Merry Christmas boys & happy new year!!

coffin rehearsal

If that is the case then I’m happy that class feels comfortable experimenting with gender

maya b

i love when mike mentions geologists. ibck geologists rise up

Jesse Wright

Just when I think maybe men are getting less publicly creepy and pervy, there’s this Tilly nonsense. Imagine being horny on main (and sexist on main) over a damn computer program. Christ.

Patti (totally NOT a cat)

I came here to say this! And he was the CEO of the company and lost the company a lot of money from sponsorships. There are super cuts of him saying "My wife" - this is really why no one trusts "The Wife Guy" as his entire brand was a lie.

Payne McMillan

Overall good episode but I’m dying to know who the top pop girlie of 2025 was

Kim

I know it’s not a book, but I would love to hear a bonus on Evie magazine. I’ve listened to maybe one other podcast that discussed it.

n

Still waiting for the Abundance episode

zvi LikesTV

Important questions to ask in this situation: 1) How many degrees of separation from this info are you? Do you know an actual child or teacher in this class or the parent of a child in the class? Any further removed in knowledge from this incident and you shouldn't believe it. (I don't believe you.) 2) What kind of school is it? Is it an elementary school or a college? Is it an arts high school or an alternative high school for kids in danger of expulsion? Is it a ballet school or soccer academy? Is it a Montessori or other child led school? 3) How big is the school? How big is the class? If it's a class of four, 100% of kids being trans is meaningless. 4) What kind of class is it? Is it queer or women's history? Is it ethnic studies at a majority white school? Is it dance or football? Is it the Gay Straight Alliance misidentified as a class? 5) What does identified mean? Who did the identifying? What is their agenda? 6) Is it the class of an openly queer teacher? Did all the queer kids specifically take The World of Christopher Marlowe because the gay teacher teaches it? Somehow, when all the Black kids sit at one lunch table, the way I sometimes did in college, we correctly identify that they are clustering for safety, but when the queer kids do it, it's social contagion

Matt

Ok, so let’s hear some specifics. What school? What city? What country? Who are these people in the classroom, both students and teacher? When was this? What’s your source? “I heard a thing one time that plays into all the right wing anti-LGBT hate” is bullshit nonsense. Sure looks like you either got fooled or you’re trying to softball trans panic to the rest of us. I ain’t fuckin’ buyin’ that, pal.

Troy

EXACTLY my thought when they brought up the wife guys. Only one reason i could see someone thinking being called a wife guy is an insult

David

Only a 50 min teaser for a 75 minute episode?!?

lazyoilpainter

Great episode, I’d just argue that the misogyny in the Tilly Norwood piece is not subtext, it’s text. Identifying virginity in women as an advantage is probably one of the oldest misogynist tropes. Loved the roasting of being horny for the computer though. (See how I followed the compliment sandwich method? IBCK is a very instructive listen)

bee

I loudly screeched out “EWWWWW” when I heard that AI actress subheading (as I was unfamiliar with this article). Holy shit. That actually made my skin crawl. Thanks to both of you for keeping me semi-sane this year.

bee

I use Pocket Casts.

Erika V

For some reason it's weird to me that Peter wasn't online in a way that intersected with the Ned Fulmer fallout to see this

Jen

Our PM here in the UK said a similar thing, that we are risk of becoming an 'island of strangers' 🤢a previous human rights lawyer no less

David Greve

It's too bad you skipped over Kirk, because the prediction that his murder would be a unifying the empowering moment for the Right was wronger than Barkan's

Emily Andrews

Please, please do Joseph Nguyen’s “Don’t believe everything you think” next year. Slightly out of your normal wheelhouse, but I need to hear someone else react to “decreasing our thinking is the key to reducing our suffering”.

Helena Latimer

alright, I'll do it. I'll be the cool trans woman they put on TV

Savannah

To imprecisely quote Peter from the Manhood episode, the reason why “wife guy” sounds like an insult is because it’s ‘gay to love your wife.’ Even this man, who apparently loves his wife, is embarrassed that other men know that he likes his wife because ‘chicks are girls and therefore not masculine.’ I need more you two doing bro voice. It’s very funny 😆.

Savannah

They should intercut it with the Borat “my wife”

Lorien Leonard

Some comtext that might be useful here - "Wife Guy" started being pejorative when john mulany (who famously praised his now ex wife in his sets) divorced his wife right before being with Olivia Munn (so people suspect him of cheating) and that guy from the Try Guys who was always talking about his wife got outted for cheating. That's when the internet turned on "Wife Guy" because it's now seen as performative.

Emily Andrews

My guess is the blind spot here is that it’s two feminist dudes who assume that most “wife guy” teasing comes from misogynistic straight men who think it’s gay to like your wife…when in fact it comes from straight women who know the level of performative love/romance displayed in relationships is too often inversely correlated with the actual doing of loving things.

amloth

yeah Tilly Norwood was a virgin until Tyler Cohen uploaded her face to an ai porn bot 30 seconds after he submitted his article🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

Kimmerfest

Interesting. I don't actually think it's a delusion. There are an awful lot of people around him who are/were very Russia-connected. Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Epstein, Bannon. His own involvement with Russian banks and real estate deals with wealthy Russian oligarchs. Not saying he's definitely a Russian asset, but it's certainly not outside the realm of possibilities.

Alex

I can't believe you guys are repaying the NYT listing you guys as one of the best podcasts for bookworms by dunking on their entire organization /s, to be clear

Alex Neal

while as a trans person I do appreciate the effort of cis allies to combat misinformation and anti trans propaganda, I want to push back a little bit on the rhetoric that's employed a couple times in this episode re: trans kids. When transphobes say "BOO theyre transing your 11-yr-olds" the response of "no, and there are vanishingly few trans 11-yr-olds" doesn't sit right with me because it sort of takes as a given that the number of trans kids that there are today is the Correct and Accurate number, when I would argue that it's not! I think it's artificially low not least because basically the entire country hates trans 11-yr-olds. The arguments that anti-trans politics are bad because trans people are such a small minority is capitulating to the idea that trans people are basically negligible, which is incorrect. You can't win over bigots that want trans people eradicated from public life by telling them that there's so few of us anyway. That's telling them what they want to hear!

Sointu Leikas

Haha! The first thing I said to my husband after listening the Musk episodes was that my impression of Musk improved a tiny bit, because according to Peter Shamshiri he's not a complete idiot :D Sorry..

Breeanna Romero

Thank you! That context was definitely missing.

Tomulent

Saying that who framed Roger rabbit was somewhat clumsy was oddly one of the most aggravating things of that piece. I'm sorry but that movie was top to bottom a freaking masterpiece. They so thoroughly did the best possible version of that idea that no audience cared about any of its invitators whatsoever. Watching behind the scenes at the custom robotics they created for certain shots and the shear level of craft from the animators blows my mind to this day.

Katenomics

It’s very important to note that there is a word for “wife guy”: uxorious. It’s from the late 16th century.

Sara Keller

"is my microwave a virgin?" Guys this is the merch I need

Maxwell

We need to set up re-education camps for Peter Shamshiri Thought for the New Century with Michael Hobbes Characteristics.

Maxwell

That sounds like a bog-standard CBT / Western Buddhist take, does Nguyen do something weird with it?

Emily Hessney Lynch

I hope this is a sarcastic comment. The NYT sucks for many reasons and deserves to be dunked on 😅

Lindsay B

I’ll die on this hill with you

Alex

Yes, I was being sarcastic. I'm a long-time subscriber to IBCK and if anything convinced me to support on Patron, it was the episodes dunking on their opinion writers haha

Dana Eloise

I'm sorry it feels and looks like the entire country hates trans 11-year-olds. We all don't; I promise many of us cis allies are just trying figure out how to give, show, & foster support. Please keep helping us understand.

Dana Eloise

Repaying? Like it should be quid pro quo? Is that why the NYT listed them? That would be a knock to BOTH IBCK and NYT.

Dana Eloise

Honestly, all that usage of the phrase "pop girlie" makes me very uncomfortable. I'd say smart move keeping it outta your mouths, guys. That goes for everyone mouths within my earshot at least! 😆

Dana Eloise

Well said Cate Kneale! 👏

Joy

“That doesn’t offend me morally. It offends me empirically.” - Michael Hobbes accidentally summarizing his complete body of work in a TCW attack

Ari

Yes yes yes

Magicath_420

I volunteer to be the cool trans person on tv 🙋🙋🙋

Bobson Dugnutt

I totally believe this, it's not even that farfetched

Magicath_420

I actually love that. I love the idea of a guy in the 1500s just head over heels for his wife 🥹

Zee G

yes this is exactly why it was on my radar!

Merry Blackbird Postcard Society

I totally agree. It makes perfect sense to counter “transness is a rampant social pandemic infecting YOUR kids at THEIR school” with “it straight up isn’t, there’s only like 6 trans kids”. But it does concede that the issue is about the number. You’re just spot on. What if there WERE hundreds of thousands of trans kids? Stand on the hill that that would be fine too. Arguing that it’s okay BECAUSE it’s rare is conceding to play their game of shifting goalposts. The goal for them isn’t “few enough”, it’s none. None. With you 100% on this being kind of frustrating to hear so repeatedly, though I empathize with Michael on getting the facts out there when so few mainstream sources are willing to even do that much.

Kimmerfest

Did you read it? I may have to read this now. Wondering if it's more, "thoughts are not truth," which is a super important understanding, or truly, "do less thinking." Agree with the other comment that this is an aspect of buddhism and mindfulness training (often used in therapy).

Kimmerfest

Along with Coates's response!

Zachary Akzin

I dont think theres any actual proof of that and its effectively the same as what trump supporters say about 2020. The final polling was quite close to the election results.

Incredibleplum

"People don't think its their job to read" explains alot of the world's problems lol

Owen Symes

Seriously! It's probably one of the *least* clumsy movies of that generation!

Murphy

Michael totally called the Brooks thing! When the photos came out just like a week after I heard that episode... I was like "Michael was RIGHT". "They are being mean to my fwiends"- Brooks

Shalma Movassaghi

@John W Not directed at you, friend, but collectively, we have all got to get past using Spotify. Evil doesn’t even cover it anymore.

William Evan Barnes

Michael, just a small thing, but I find it incredibly distracting during episodes that I otherwise love: please try to stop barking out "right" every few seconds while Peter is talking. Sometimes it's genuinely every five seconds or so for extended periods of time. I know it's an unconscious thing that in a normal conversation would be good because it indicates that you're paying attention to the person you're talking to. But podcast dialogue should not be the same as natural conversational dialogue, and I get really taken out of the episode when I hear the word "right" splatted into Peter's sentence for the 70th time in an episode. Thanks y'all!

Felicity Tessa

Just commenting so there are 89 instead of 88 comments

KT

calling the rape of children “salacious” is exactly the type of pervert shit i’d expect from someone in the files. like i’m pretty sure that’s actually an atrocious crime so….

KT

also need yall to know that NYT Mag just had Sir Cranksalot jeffrey toobin interview the SCOTUSblog guy about being exposed as a sugar daddy for young women and committing various crimes. forget actors on actors, NYT is pioneering pervert on pervert!

Helen McCallum

Randomly, a friend of mine painted Dumbo's bum in who framed Roger rabbit.

James Phipps

My only complaint about the podcast is its production rate. And you haven’t done an Olivia Rheingold episode yet.

Z F

My immediate thought was, would that actually make Tilly Norwood a non-virgin? This feels like a koan. What is virginity when you don't exist in physical space? Or when you're inanimate? If I put my dick in my microwave, would it lose its virginity?

Jonathan Fifield

You guys joke about politicians and pundits saying that Hitler was gonna bring the temperature down once he became chancellor but that's exactly what happened. Multiple newspapers and politicians tried to sell everyone on the idea that Hitler wasn't really that violent and all he wanted was law and order and they were gonna stop the killing on the streets. And when the Night of the Long Knives happened and Rohm and the brownshirts were rounded up and executed and the newspapers applauded Hitler and said this was proof that he was committed to law and order and bringing the temperature down. And he did stop the fights in the streets but by building concentration camps and filling them with all his political enemies. The media at the time glazed him sooo hard.

stan says I'm done with sergio

this is blue anon fanfic. the amount of people who would have to be in on the conspiracy is huge. you can't just swap the votes with a computer

Cate Kneale

Sires, be it gay to love thine wife?

Kazoolhu

You should check out the episodes of Maintenance Phase that Peter mentions above. Lots of info and the hosts are great

Cormac

rarely is the question asked: is my microwave a virgin

beesher

Has anyone done the Worsties/Cursties/Grifties trifecta? Like an EGOT for being a horrible person .

Veronika Z

"Wife guy" did actually get a bad rep with the whole Try Guys debacle among millennials/Gen Z, and to me personally it is similar to "performative male" as those men often use their exaggerated love for their wives to be popular online.

Z F

I may have misunderstood, but I think the point Michael is usually making is that very few trans minors are getting surgery, especially compared to the number of cis minors getting the same types of surgery to correct conditions like gynecomastia. To me, this seems like a useful talking point to counter the right wing panic about how children are being "mutilated" in the name of gender affirming care. At the same time, just pointing out that trans minors make up a small percentage of the population overall, as if that should be reassuring, hinges on transphobic logic, I agree.

Olivia Biles

“College students can’t read good” WELL

mguin

It was technologically ground-breaking AND had a piano duel between Daffy & Donald Duck. The fact that CGI has come a long way since doesnt negate what it was at the time!

Becky Hawkins

Yeah, that was the ACTUAL worst take this year!

Justin Avery

Ezra Klein does bad takes the right way.

Jen

I love your podcast but the gay guy talks too much. It's a good thing in normal gay conversation because I don't have to listen to it, but it's bad when it's on something I otherwise love to listen to. Now you know I'm being nice because I'm ending with: Thanks, y'all!

Lilith Anderson

I feel a bit awkward about the ai actress take, as a massive Hatsune Miku fan, Miku transed my gender though and is like, the art and music created around her is truly endless and vocaloid is this great thing that connects people all over the world. Like the ai actress guy seemz like he is just using her to create his "ideal" woman who is a virgin and perfectly 'beautiful' and wont reject him. like bro, mayhaps there are healthier ways to engage with a computer screen and characters on it. Certainly don't write a fucking piece about how she's a virgin lmao

T

Now we can at last mark this a very, merry Christmas. Thank you boys.

Arrow

This is unrelated in any way to the actual podcast, but for the next bonus episode I want Peter and Michael to watch and review Heated Rivalry. Again, not really related to the pod, but it’s my current fixation

Elaina B

I’m a middle school teacher and the other day I had one 12-year-old boy insult another 12-year-old-boy by saying “Bro thinks he’s Charlie Kirk, but bro can’t even carry the flame 🥀” and I blame Ezra Klein for this

e.lonnrot

My read on Thomas Chatterton Williams is that he’s Ta-Nehisi Coates’ Salieri (movie ofc, relationship not historically accurate and all that, etc. etc.). He’s mad and jealous that TNC has gotten all the acclaim and fame that he has, so he keeps churning out writing Like That. TNC’s prose is clear, direct, and accessible, so TCW’s own writing is convoluted, prolix, and empty. Another one felled by their own jealousy. Sad.

Laura R

No Pop Girlie of 2025????

Kat W

Exactly. To me, a "wifeguy" is a guy who performs how much he loves his wife as his brand online for clout but then it turns out he was cheating on her the whole time.

Olivia Rollins

As a book editor, I appreciate the shout-out. "I can only imagine what this prose looked like before editorial" was a recurring thought I had when I listened to the Chatterton Williams episode.

DD

My take on transphobia in the US is it's all about the sports. If we took money and college scholarships out of sports, the number of people who care about transgender children would plummet. But Americans think they're just being "rational actors" when they defend 'fairness in women's sports' and that's why the econ/data bros/pundits support anti-trans laws/rules as well. (There's a NYT article about Youth Sports being stressful. So much money is pouring into it. Also, fairness in sports is a mirage.)

Cheyenne Montgomery

I think there is a non-zero chance that Tyler Cowen is using ChatGPT to do his homework. Are we sure Tyler Cowen is a real person? The Tilly Norwood article is hitting that uncanny valley space for me between words being used to convey a comprehensible idea, and words being strung into sentences that are grammatically correct and use words you would expect to see used together, but don’t actually make sense at all. The text of the article doesn’t sound that much different than the slop video

Alycia Riley

I swear to the sweet baby Jesus...if I don't find a man like Peter I will simply throw myself off a cliff.

Thomas Albertine

"Old men having bad takes about AI" was the theme of our Christmas dinner this year. Bonus points because both the old men in question independently complained to me about how they think the other is an idiot, but the secret is that they're both idiots.

Max Ruther

Yeah you tell’em how to conduct a podcast. What would they know, as runners of multiple shows with tens of thousands of listeners.

Mikol

“Wife guy” really got a bad rap when two preeminent wife guys, John Mulaney and Ned Fulmer of the Try Guys, were shown to have cheated on their wives. I think there’s a difference between making “wife guy” your whole persona (esp when you go on and cheat, it comes off like you’re trying too hard) versus just being a “wife guy” as one of a person’s many qualities.

Cristina

I don't really believe this anecdote, however, I did go to a high school where around 25% of the school was genderqueer in some way. This school had about 50 students and was meant for neurodiverse kids and kids who have experienced trauma, so not an accurate representation of the general population.

Jacob King

An aspect of AI virgins is even if you use them as porn/sexbots you can just flick the switch back to a blank slate. The virgin archetype is implicitly a way of devaluing women for having a past. This creep worked out a way to devalue them for having a future.

CJ Cramer

Right, but it didn’t start that way. It was sort of a joke. And then that event made it like they for some people— but not everyone was aware of the TryGuys fallout, so it was only for a small subsection of people.

Bobson Dugnutt

I nominate Vivian Wilson (elon's kid) for the role of cool trans person they can bring out to make the public like trans people. Bitch is funny as hell

anarchopixie

I appreciate the attempt to come to an empathetic understanding but at the end of the day, these people are just disgusted by trans people and the sports thing is the "reasonable", public face of hatred.

Bea

This is an outrage, I'm unsubscribing

Kate H.

As someone who had the misfortune of being in the middle of one of the non-celebrity Twitter wife guy blowups from years ago, I can confirm that my ex-husband was terrible at actually having a wife. My situation was referenced in various trend pieces for a while and it was so strange seeing it described as something very, very funny when in fact it was extremely dark.

Bea

Nah it's Olivia Nuzzi for "Jailbait"

Sonich

advanced curvy wife analysis!

Rachel

Goddddd the Ezra Klein take. Would you gentlemen ever consider a pundit profile about him?

Dr McG

The microwave bit got me.

Ronin Fredricson

The Tilly Norwood thing reminds me of being a kid and getting a little crush on background character in a cartoon or whatever that just instantly appeals to you aesthetically and you really want them to be a part of the main narrative. Maybe they'll have one short line every now and then but the creators don't even care enough to have it be the same voice actor. They're nothing more than set-dressing but you've built them up in your head as this really interesting character based ONLY on them having cool hair or something.

Kevin Bice

But who was the top pop girlie of 2025? I waited all year and listened to no pop girlies so as not to spoil this episode for myself! I'm shocked and chagrinned 🧐

Steven Wong

An episode on Abundance may be in order too.

Kevin Bice

Perhaps Glenn Kessler is also in the Epstein Files. Is it irresponsible to speculate? As we all learned from Peggy Noonan, it would be irresponsible not to ☝️

Michael Murray

Michael and Peter need to get the Bypass Paywalls Clean extension to see articles from the terrible publications they don't want to support. I use the extension with Quetta on Android, but there are iOS options.

DD

Oh, for sure! I totally agree with you. I think there's different tranches of transphobe out there. I think Michael (or maybe Peter?) said that people really don't care about transgender people as a political issue. And I think I was mainly responding to that. I think they do and it's often "but the sports!" (Most of these people think that sports is a meritocracy and is 'fair' etc.) I think as the importance of youth sports grew over the last decade or so, people that normally wouldn't have cared about transgender issues do--and it's for selfish reasons. I think this group thinks selfishly and that someone is taking something away from them (their kids scholarship money, social clout). Then there's that whole other group who don't care about that. If sports hadn't turned into what it is today, I think that the former group wouldn't care as much. But we'd certainly still be left with the latter, the deeply transphobic who don't care if other people affect them or not. They'll fight against others' humanity out of pure hate. There's an article in the NYT about youth sports yesterday and it discusses how kids' mental health is being affected by youth sports. Maybe we'll get a book one day "Have Youth Sports Gone Too Far?" Doubt it. The NYT is pro-capitalism and Jonathan Haidt wouldn't approve. He's okay with kids get hurt as long as it's from being outdoors and not on a mobile phone.

Becky

This ep's 50-min preview was the one that finally got me to join the patreon. No regerts.

Jacqueline Blakley

I have not noticed Michael using this more than Peter does, but punctuating every other sentence with “right?” is a widespread problem that needs to stop. EVERYBODY PLEASE STOP 😭

Scout L

I think yall are kinda wrong on the wife guy thing, have yall looked into the try guys? This has played a huge part in the wife guy trope online. And his podcast this year with his ex wife lmao!?!? I think you’re right about the teasing part but I wouldn’t say it’s a net positive in general

Jacqueline Blakley

Zojirushi rice cooker hell yeah! That little tune lights up my world. On the other hand, when I ask Alexa something and she says “Good morning Jacqueline” I can scarcely contain my rage. SHUT UP AND SET MY TIMER BITCH YOU ARE NOT A PERSON AND WE ARE NOT FRIENDS 😡

Zak

Thanks for explaining the difference between Wife Guy and Curvy Wife Guy. At first I was on board with the article you were quoting because I too thought the former was an insult.

Micah Stoicu

Yeah I think this has changed! Especially since the whole try guys incident. I think originally maybe it had light teasing implications, but now it can also be implying that a guy is compensating in public for being not actually a good person behind the scenes? At least that's the way I've seen it used online

Susan Hurtado

I knew Dem lost the election when Harris was in the interview and refused to affirm trans rights- she just invoked "the law" and refused to commit. Edited to say I didn't wait long enough to the podcast. Michael spoke directly about this.

Jack Wolfe

great recap of a shit year, boys. so tired of the "has the left considered they might be wrong" take industry. its like yeah, ive considered that im wrong every hour of my fucking life, im a guilt crusted commie its all i know

zebussy

The coolest trans person right now is absolutely Alok Vaid-Menon & I'd love to hear them on the pod! 🌈💚🌈💚🌈💚🌈💚

zebussy

Agreed! Big Try Guy fan & this absolutely changed the definition of "wife guy" - and luckily boring squidward's ousting resulted in a new bipoc, queer, & trans try cast 🌈🌈🌈

stan says I'm done with sergio

you said you understood and then wrote a long comment saying you didn't. if it wasn't sports it would be something else. their goal is to erase transgender people from public spaces

Kat

AI television shows test incredibly well with "women obsessed with gut health."

Vazzaroth's Verbosity

It's so funny to hear the normie public freak out about AI actors when vocaloid culture has been developed for over 10 years now

bizanthymum

Yeah can we please talk about how the Abundance movement is funded by Charles Koch (and other right wing fundies) to pull the wool over the eyes of the libs . . . and it’s working?

Thisisfornudes94

So we all agree clippy has absolutely fucked right

Shanda Wells

The Tilly Norwood obsession with virginity is so fucking weird

Erin L

Maybe this administration finally cracked my brain, but I thought the Tilly Norwood video was satire of the BBC, and the Free Press guy missed the point.

mackles

It warmed my heart to look at my podcast app and see a 50 minute preview for this episode

William Evan Barnes

Wow, it's really interesting to see how ready some people are to read bigotry into my comment. I'm literally describing a thing that would actually be good in a real conversation, but gets annoying in a recorded and edited medium. I never mentioned the fact that Michael is gay, I never actually said he's interrupting Peter, I just mentioned what is clearly just a normal conversational technique for letting people know you're listening that doesn't fit with a recorded podcast. And yes, I am in fact allowed to have opinions about the quality and characteristics of the media I consume, and in this case even pay for. Just like everyone is. But sure guys, have fun jumping at imagined bigotry.

Brittney Schrick

Ok, the Tilly Norwood thing genuinely sounds like British satire. Especially since they’ve done nothing with it since the launch makes me think so even more. I won’t be surprised to see a Borat-style comedy or a documentary about how people responded to this announcement in the next year or so.

Vivian

Right now, I think AI actors stand to deprive real actors of jobs/rights more so than vocaloids ever have of singers.

Victoria Eden

John Mulaney has also contributed to Wife Guy taking some hits the last few years. If someone called someone I know a Wife Guy, I would need to clarify if they mean derogatory or complimentary.

Kerouh

Y’all I hate to break it to you but wife guy is not a term of endearment 😂 (or at least not to the deeply chronically online lol), I saw it change online I think around the time of Ned Fulmers cheating scandal? I haven’t heard someone online use it as a good thing in probably 6 months, but it’s also not like, a serious accusation, it’s just kind of mildly negative meme

Karen Wernke

I feel like this episode has shown me that I am more online than Mike and Peter, because ‘wife guy’ is 100% an insult. Because it’s based on people like Ned Fulmer from Try Guys and John Mulaney whose whole schtick was I love my wife so much while actively cheating on their wives, or doing other things that were betraying their wives. It’s about saying you love your wife while hurting her.

Ishaan Selby

These are not equivalent at all

Gary McCammon

Huh. I wonder if China's superiority in science and tech might have had something to do with the massive assault on science, the sloughing off government research to universities, and them the massive assault on universities for teaching anything other than business and patriotism, all of which has been America for the last 45 or so years. Naww. Probably wokeness is to blame.

Vazzaroth's Verbosity

I think people are/were VERY concerned over whether Miku is a virgin

David Jenks

Spot on about TCW... reactionary centrist dbags are always certain there is a need to be uncertain about the claim that our institutions are captured and the political and economic elites are bad faith actors. Paralyzing cretinism

Howard Fischer

I will note that FIRE has been extremely active in pushing back against right wing authoritarianism in higher education since the election.

Jaimie Cuzens-Sutton

The level of creepiness in the "My Favourite Actress" quotes is OFF THE CHARTS.

Alycia Riley

🤣🤣🤣🤣 if I want shit to get done I will have to become a lesbian or do it myself.

Jaimie Cuzens-Sutton

Interesting take, but how many men actually care about women's sports? With the possible exception of tennis. Although overall I agree that sports are not actually the issue.

Jaimie Cuzens-Sutton

My dude, I don't think professional podcasters with multiple, EXTREMELY successful shoes need you to explain "podcast dialogue" to them 😂😂 I personally enjoy Michael's interruptions. I like my podcasts conversational.

Edie Diemar

Adding to the chorus but yeah Wife Guy™️ is an insult now. Too many rubbish dudes made it their brand and ruined it for the actual wife guys.

Krystal Taylor

Theres something funny about people talking ahit about Peter and that people were talking shit about Sarah when Michael was on YWA.

William Evan Barnes

Cool man. I'm glad you like it! Genuinely, not sarcastically. I don't. Those two preferences are equally valid. But look, I love the show they make for the content and their personalities. They could actually use some improvement on the technical side of things though, and I would include editing out the active listening noises as part of that, just like I'm sure they edit out ums and ahs or misspoken words. Unless they're not doing any editing at all, then it's not actually a conversation, it's just conversational in nature. They could also stand to up their recording game with better mics and room treatment. It's fine, but it sounds like they're recording a Zoom call. Again, it's fine, and I still listen because I love what they make, but I do actually think they could make better recordings since this is their job. Either way I'm still out here listening and paying for the product because I like it. Doesn't mean it can't be better.

William Evan Barnes

So I'm a pretty radically progressive person and a queer ally. Those things aren't fixed traits though, and they always require continued work and effort. I'm genuinely interested in doing better and being better when and where I can, so can you refer back to my original post and let me know what it was about it that made you think it had something to do with Michael being gay? Because it genuinely wasn't intended that way. You might even notice that I never brought up their sexuality. You did though. Also, I could have phrased this better, but what I was getting at is that Michael's use of "right" is an excellent example of active listening. It has nothing to do with "gay conversation," whatever that means. It's just something that I find distracting in a recorded medium, but it is a desirable thing in a face to face conversation. But seriously, if you could quote back to me the part of my original comment where I was being homophobic or using a homophobic dog whistle or something, I would appreciate it.

Rebecca Child

Cannot wait to hear Peter's take on the 51minute free taster ep of this.

TJ Barke

I love how it never, ever occurs to these pundits that the reason there is less conservative thought in academia because conservatism is just fucking wrong about everything. That the left is, in fact, the side that actually hews to reality more. Never occurs to them.

Eileen Anderson

Love when Peter gets angry. It gives me life.

beesher

In Bed With the Right. Michael has been on all three editions!

Astraea

Okay so I haven't finished the episode but once again Elon Musk made my brain explode so I have to yell about it here: THE SUN IS NOT SLOWLY EXPANDING OVER TIME, JFC YOU IDIOT! (Source: I am an astronomer. Also I know how to use Google.) The Sun *is* getting slightly brighter over time, but it isn't from expansion. The Sun will expand at the end of its life *as part of the process of stellar death,* but this will be in about 5 billion years when the Sun runs out of hydrogen in its core - it's not exactly a pressing concern for you and me. Also dude for real you cannot call yourself the smartest spaceman alive and make truly dumb claims like this. Do just a single Google search before opening your mouth, Elon, I beg/dare you.

Astraea

As someone in academic science: there's nothing "sudden" about China's dominance in STEM. That's been true since before I started college, nearly twenty years ago. These idiots only think it's "sudden" because they weren't paying attention, because they fundamentally didn't believe that anyone except Good American (White) Patriots could possibly think good until China started kicking our asses in a more obvious way 5-10 years ago.

Astraea

Also yes, absolute +1 to everything you said about the evisceration of federal science funding here in the US.

Astraea

Wow, sudden flashbacks to watching Amadeus in band class....

Astraea

It's like how creationists were so (faux) mad that biology departments wouldn't "teach the controversy" of intelligent design. They didn't teach it because they had already had the debate, they answered the questions in full, you lost, it's over. Similarly, "the debate about vaccines" has been over for like 300 years, we don't need to pretend to be dumber then we are just to spare the feelings of some bad-faith right-wing loons writing for the Atlantic.

Patrick Smith

My favorite actor? Hell yeah dude!

Samantha Palmer

This is what I came here for. Wife guy is definitely an insult for guys who make loving their wife their entire personality... and then cheat on them.

Samantha Palmer

This is what I came here for. Wife guy is definitely an insult for guys who make loving their wife their entire personality... and then cheat on them.

Samantha Palmer

It is an insult for men who talk constantly about loving their wife, and then are revealed to be cheating on them. Like Ned Fulmer and John Mulaney

Sophie Glanville

The Tilly thing is BRITISH SATIRE! They’re taking the piss!!! Seriously, I’m shocked you guys didn’t pick up on this!!!! I’m British - had never heard it before (and had only vaguely heard of Tilly) - and still haven’t watched it - but it was obvious within seconds that the people in that clip are making fun of the subject!!!!

El Claire

It's very obviously satire 🤣 I think it's incomprehensible to American audiences but it's very BBC humour.

Soo Lincoln

Pretty sure they did make that exact point actually.. When they discussed how you can't have 'balance' if one side is dumb & wrong

Ilona

Other podcasts: ‘here are 6 minutes of a bonus sample including 3 minutes of explaining that this is a bonus sample and how to sign up for the bonus content’ Micheal Hobbes: ‘Here are 60 out of 80 minutes as a sample - enjoy.’

Caroline

This might just me with a bad case of producer brain (occupational hazard unfortunately) but when talking about Mike calling his straight friends ‘wife guy’, Peter missed the opportunity to make a ‘village homosexual’ joke

TJ Barke

I don't mean the hosts, I mean the pundits they're talking about.

SK

Alas, this piece was published too late to be included: The magic has gone out of flirting. Maybe this infamous book had a point. Revisiting Neil Strauss’s “The Game” at 20. https://wapo.st/3YiWbcU (gift link)

Not Becky

Not a podcast but- The "in pursuit of clean countertops" substack regularly critiques Evie!!

Bridgette Slifer

They need to understand the Ned Fulmer scandal apparently lol.

Matt

That and the associated radical centrist lib BlueAnon shit of “everything bad that happens is all Russia’s fault, nobody American is ever racist, sexist, LGBT-phobic, Christian fascist, or generally hateful without some guy named Yuri Ivanovich telling him to be!”, because that’s just another way of blaming all of America’s problems on foreigners.

Lindsay B

Yes! When I hear “wife guy” now I take it to mean “someone suspiciously too into his wife in a public way”

J C

"The only thing it struggled with was consent in sexual scenes, and we just ignored that," is just a clear and funny capital J Joke, it was kind of baffling they didn't get it by that point.

Astraea

I want it on a T-shirt!

Skeezemachine

Thank you so much for the gift article lol, I am so tired of immediate paywall rejection!!!

Max Ruther

So put it in a DM, Roger Ebert. When you see a play, do you holler complaints about line delivery during curtain call? Do you tell bucket drummers to buy a metronome with the fiver you slip them? This is literally a platform to support artists, usually with pittances. If you wanna be an armchair audio engineer, take that obnoxiousness to Reddit or other hellholes.

William Evan Barnes

Dude, who is this for? You seem awfully upset by a relatively minor criticism of a piece of media that you had no hand in making, and which I, again, like enough to pay for in spite of my minor critiques of their work. Also, let me just look around at my desk real quick and... Why, what's this? Multiple microphones? An audio interface? A groove box? Synthesizers? A MIDI keyboard? Studio monitors? Who left all this audio hardware on my desk? And who put twenty years worth of recording and production practice into my brain? It can't have been my doing, I'm just an armchair audio engineer. Snark aside, it doesn't take an audio engineer to recognize that their audio sounds like a recorded Zoom session. Which is fine, I still listen and pay for it because I like them and want them to keep doing it. It just could be better with some very minor effort.

Kat

I wish you didn’t have to do it Mike but hearing you get so passionate about debunking transphobic rhetoric gives me so much hope. Thank you for fighting so hard for us💕

Jen

I'm a woman and a linguist, so I'd suggest reading Deborah Tannen, listening to the episode of You're Wrong About in which Michael details responding to the constant criticism of Sarah Marshall's voice/vocal tics/interruptions/listening sounds, listening to The Vocal Fries podcast, and cluing into the obvious ongoing policing of any voice that isn't a straight male one by other straight males.

A Shade In Shades

At my birthday party: Of course I wouldn't make an event entirely about myself. The date is entirely coincidental. Have you never been to a party before? Going to parties is fun. Lots of people go to parties.

Tara

Waittttt who was Peter’s pop girlie of the year?!?

spacecat in space

I was surprised it wasn’t the whole episode (again)

Christy

A lot of the other comments are saying that “wife guy” has “become” an insult, but I think it’s the other way around?? If you’re v online, it’s been an insult for the kind of performative “I love my wife” public figures for a long time. I feel like it then got misconstrued offline into being a term people jokingly use for guys who just genuinely love spending time with their wife.

Christy

That’s what it’s riffing on, but if you actually see the video, it really is quite bad

Della

And what did Peter think of Man's Best Friend????

Bea

There's a big difference between their legal wing and their PR wing. The head of the organisation is still talking about campus 'controversies'. Peter's written about this in his newsletter, String in a Maze.

Bea

It doesn't work on the Free Press website, at least not for me.

Bea

Oh my god, that article is deranged

Jessica G

I’ll never understand this accusation against john mulaney…dude makes jokes about a lot of shit. his wife was just one subject, certainly not “his whole schtick”

Karen Wernke

One of the first things I ever saw about John Mulaney was jokes and stories he told on stage and during interviews about his first wife, all praising and loving. Then the nexts thing I heard about him was that he was in rehab and having a baby with someone else. I may not be a follower of his closely but if you google wife guy it’s literally Ned Fulmer, Adam Levine and John Mulaney as the most famous examples

Skeezemachine

“Too much certitude out here” took me tf out

TheMagicFelix

Are we not doing the mispronounciation thing anymore? calling out on Micheal here saying con*flu*ence instead of *con*fluence😜and Peter letting it just slide

AngryDog GoodBoy

The vast majority of "cops injured on the job" were injured by other cops. It's ridiculous with those ppl. The incompetence is almost unbelievable.

KT

i’m addicted to commenting but i’m relistening to this and the president of WESLEYAN saying colleges are too liberal is so funny. fork found in kitchen bro

Apollo C

Can I be a hater back at you: *Michael

Emory Blair

Literally left my normal podcasting app to come to Patreon and find the Ned Fulmer example. 😂

Ash

Look up The Try Guys, Ned Fulmer and also John Mulaney for your wife guy education. This phenomenon can be best described through these two examples. It's the idea that you make loving your wife you're whole personality for likeability and public facing clout then to completely disrespect and treat your wife like shit through cheating, lying, scandals etc etc

Rachael

Dear Peter and Michael, Y'all are great, and your takes are fascinating and well-supported, and I appreciate them so much. I regularly re-listen to your episodes to better grok the issues at hand. To that end, PLEASE DO AN EPISODE ON MATT YGLESIAS. This is partially a selfish request—my dad is uncomfortably into him and I don't know how to articulate convincingly that I think Yglesias is full of shit—but also roughly every other episode, y'all make a comment about how inane Yglesias is, and I'd like to understand your stance better. Thank you for your assistance 😁❤️ A fan

kmcb

yep

Astraea

Seconding this request!

Peter

An episode on ross douthat (perhaps through the lens of his book Believe or Belief or whatever) would be exquisite!

Noranti's Kitchen

British person here - it is satire. There are multiple visual jokes in the video and then there's the bit about 'men who shop at Screwfix and women obsessed with gut health' (Screwfix is a DIY store). This is mildly funny if you are British. The woman who produced the whole thing has also previously made comedy in the UK.

Mouse Famous

While writing off Bari’s blog on your taxes will never not be funny to me, archive dot today works just fine for that site. Friends don’t let friends pay for The Free Press!

I Urban

Undercurrent of weird sexist shit? Undercurrent?? It is straight up incel.

Hannah Grace

Michael our friend, that type of reporter knows very well that their arguments are stupid, and they are very willingly aiding the Fascist propaganda. They’re not just stupid, they’re a part of manufacturing consent for the ongoing US colonialist project. Our military is a PROBLEM, no matter who’s hosting the parade.

Hannah Grace

Sucks to be those centrists, cause the social justice left? We have not yet BEGUN to be out of control!!

Hannah Grace

Part of what makes right wing takes so maddening is their absolute ahistorical quality. The right wing has always hated free education! Always! This is not new, and it’s also no way to build a good college omg

Stephanie L

Mike you should be writing off the websites you're paying for!!

Marek

Book suggestion: I would really like to hear your opinion on Women Who Run with the Wolves!

Meghan 🫶

Veto. I do not want this book ruined for me.

Bea

The article they were critiquing mentions both the Try Guys and Mulaney. It's all about that definition of wife guy. They already know.

Bea

Hey guys, just wanted to check you knew there was another definition of wife guy?I'm worried you missed the first 150 comments about it. And maybe you didn't read the article you were critiquing, which is all about that definition and specifically mentions Mulaney and the Try Guys.

Ash

Fair enough! I hadn't read the article and they didn't really go into that.

Cara Leopold

Have just started reading it!

Rosie Redford

Yes! It was so gross, the whole thing about how the best part is she can't say no 🤢

Rosie Redford

Also car crashes. They'll wreck their police cruiser, get a sore neck, and that counts as injured on the job.

Jessica

Would love to maybe see a three parter on what the hell was (is?) going on with Vox. And Ezra Klein feels like he deserves his own pundit portrait, too.

oa

BEGGING for an Abundance episode

Sini Tahvonen

Can you PLEASE do Guns Germs and Steel?

Lydia Breskin

Ok hear me out... Bot Love on Radiotopia was a really fascinating podcast series exploring real people who have relationships with AI chat bots. I was RIVETED. I STILL DO NOT GET IT AT ALL but it was so interesting to explore.

Claire Roden

I am DYING for your take on David Brook’s latest self-serving disaster, “the sins of the moderates” Oh my god, the leopards are my face and I’m a MODERATE! How dare they!

William Evan Barnes

Wait didn't they do that? Or maybe it was another of his books? Maybe I'm thinking of a different podcast...

Sini Tahvonen

Nope! I think it was mentioned in the Sapiens episode but they haven't made an episode about it

Glenn Loveall

The next mega book of this time to analyze - Abundance!

V

Lol Michael you gotta shorten the teasers on the main feed. I agree with Peter - they are ridiculously long (why not do it like 5-4 - 5 min tops?). Also love you guys - I re-listened to all your episodes in the last month to get me through the tedium of overdue adulting 🙏🏽 New year, new me thanks to you 💛

Don’t Panic

Yeah, was super confused why they didn’t pick that up. The satire is laid on thick, it’s so ridiculously obvious

Jessie Gruner

“real name is Harlem” is a very underrated comment.

Annabelle Posch

Noooo the long teasers actually made me get a patreon because at the end of the teasers I was TOO invested and needed to hear the rest of it! :D

Meg

I thought the exact same as a British person haha. Shocked anyone took it seriously 😂

V

Lol fair nuf

Angel Giovannie

You gotta do: White Rural Rage by Paul Waldman and Thomas Schaller.

S W

Ooo - do "Co-Intelligence" by Ethan Mollick. My management (teaching profession) is asking us to read it.

Just Helen, but also, Indecision

That AI Tilly Norwood thing was so painfully an in-joke for people who work for the BBC (guilty) so I cannot fathom how baffling it must be for the rest of the world. The Silvermouse mention made me cringe right through my own body

Karin Maria

Please, you have to explain the virginity thing to us

Manny K.

I don't think the sarcastic remarks are actually accusing you of being bigoted. They were just poking fun.

AngryDog GoodBoy

So many car crashes! And they have no care or responsibility for the civilian lives they are endangering. Car chases shouldn't be legal. It's almost never necessary.

Norman X. Picklestein

early entry for worst takes of 2026 is the WSJ Bluey is actually conservative take

Ronin Fredricson

Also if we pass by the absolute pervert insanity about the computer being a virgin and not needing to consent etc, the insidious bit about how you, YOU. A an appreciator of art, a consumer even. That a factor of wether or not you, YOU, like an actor/actress should take into account if they're cheap or asks for things from the studio. "This is my favorite actress because SHE packs her own peanut butter sandwich lunch instead of BLEEDING POOR LITTLE WARNER BROTHERS DRY by asking for SUSHI! That's what we should care about!"

Lilith Anderson

mike has the same vibe as the people that "what are a bunch of ASIANS!?!?" tweet is mocking

Molly Dubow

I think we need to check the hard drive of the guy talking about the virginity of the AI actress….!?

Lynn

BRB I'm gonna go write Fanfic about Tilly Norwood and upload it to chat GPT and now he is absolutely incorrect

Lynn

She is in a leftist polyurethane and hates conservatives

A. List

It feels important to share at the 1 hour mark - there is a self published erotica novela called "Conquered by Clippy"

Christina Brackett

“Is my microwave a virgin” made me laugh harder than anything I’ve heard on a podcast. I wish I could eternal sunshine of the spotless mind my brain and listen to it again.