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Bonfireside Chat 317: Midra's Manse (Patreon)

Published:
2025-01-19 17:40:17
Imported:
2026-06
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  • BSC_e317_Midra'sManse.mp3

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Content

Though the Abyssal Woods and Midra’s Manse aren’t huge areas gameplay-wise, we adore their lore and story so much that we had to camp out for some extra time. So this episode concludes our discussion of Midra’s Manse, including the boss fight, and a long talk about what Midra and Nanaya’s deals were.

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Comments

Goldie

WHERE FLAP THE TATTERS OF THE KING!

Andrew C

As an Elden Ring-only player, I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to explain the resonances with Dark Souls 2 without assuming the listener knew what everything was already! It's great to hear the longer From context of some of the motifs here.

Goldie

I keep reiterating this, but seeing that they actually gave him the tattered mantle of the king in yellow made me ecstatic. I'm ecstatic right now just thinking about it. Everything about him- his presentation, how he walks towards the tarnished, how his mantle is always flowing in some unknown wind, the awe and dread of it all- it's so fucking good. A+ work, one of the best bosses, full stop. The absolute stance of this man. Nanaya has emerged as one of the more intriguing characters of the dlc for me. For what it's worth, she is wearing the same clothing as in the painting. My current view on her is that she had been a scholar- in terms of earlier games, I saw her as sort of a Iosefka figure, where there's more than meets the eye (think of finding the hidden entrance to her clinic). I imagine in life she was an eccentric. I love how enigmatic she is, and the state the tarnished finds her in- aged, but not desiccated. It's almost as though she's sleeping. Also- huge shoutout to the MUSIC of this boss. How the fight feels like a dance, the bass, the strings of the frenzied flame merchants- it's too good!!!! How it's sort of discordant in the first phase, but in the second phase it's so much more clearer- you're in sync with the madness

Goldie

I have a theory about why the frenzied flame isn't present almost anywhere else in the land scorched by the crusade. I think that's it- it's already burnt, and frenzy needs life to sprout. Messmer, almost as a distortion of the lord of frenzied flame, has created his own lifeless land (from Melina's dialogue) although life remains so it's obviously not literal, but I do adore that symbolism. Like, his flame already occupies the niche. For what it's worth, and I can't recall if I've mentioned this here before, but the sigil of Messmer's flame is remarkably similar to the sigil of Frenzy.

JackelZXA

With the hornsent likely being the ones leading this inquisition, it’s possible that it’s not JUST despair that leads to madness. There may be a form of acceptance that must also occur, like when we are embraced by the three fingers, to be able to inherit madness. (Those who are prejudiced away from it by their existing god may be safe, but those like the merchants whom are outside of that religious structure may be more susceptible to madness taking hold of them.)

Goldie
>>161806880

acceptance, release, deliverance... he has endured more than enough!

Lucas West

While I might not like this area, boy I love Midra. A sad old man turned into a flaming greatsword wielding lord, almost like some sort of… Lord of Cinder? Dark souls is back baby, and the music especially in phase 2… mmm I thought the decapitated monks out front had their own “swords of punishment” growing, rather than frenzy. Not sure if that’s right, but I thought it was the Hornsent basically saying “you better stay dead,” fitting considering Shabriri’s abilities

Micah Spiese

You could’ve have called this episode “18 inches of Midra”… Just saying.

Earthquake

Definitely my most anticipated episode of BSC back when I finished the DLC. This entire area caught me by surprise, especially the boss. I just wasn’t expecting more madness in the lands of shadow. Everything about Midra’s fight just checks all the boxes for me. With all of his moves at different ranges, it still manages to feel like a dance. Nothing tops my eyes-open, jaw hitting the floor reaction see the flame of frenzy sprout from his neck. Easily my favorite boss in Elden Ring.

Fringleton

For the discussion about why frenzied flame isn't everywhere in the shadow lands, I'm pretty certain it's a choice one needs to actively make. To even find the three fingers in the base game, you need to do some very obscure and weird things (like get naked). This ritual suggests you need to be very deliberate in seeking it out. The intellectual contagion and despair are there to entice someone into seeking it out, but ultimately it requires a deliberate choice to be made to let it overtake you. And the presence of the Inquisition among the hornsent suggest it would be abhorrent to the hornsent, but it would also provide a great deal of despair to convince nidra to take it on.

Charlie Frame

I'm glad you took your time and dedicated two episodes to this superficially sparse area. Turns out the lore is far denser here than I could have imagined. A very good episode this one, thank you

Victor

I think the simplest explanation for the spine is that it's Midra's. He is a failed LotFF (since the world didn't end in flames) and he visibly lacks a spine. His ribcage is held in place by the inquisitor sword. As for Nanaya being Shabriri, I agree with Sophie Pilbeam that Shabriri keeps his name when he hops. Hyeta also kept her name. So if anything Nanaya is the occupier, which doesn't fit well with the fact that Midra calls her Nanaya. In conclusion, I think Nanaya is not a corpse tenant. I also think there's emasculation play shenanigans going on, in which case the lack of a spine /lack of backbone fits.

Joseph

So... when do you think you'll announce what comes after RLH is wrapped?

Mansoor

Regarding the presence of Frenzy in locations marred by despair, I'll reiterate what others have said and suggest the Flame must be "accepted" for it to take hold following the mass casualty event. I'd like to expand, however, that an acknowledgment of the Flame, whether it be through worship or study, is required BEFORE the induced trauma for Frenzy to apply. Although the text is purposefully vague in using the word "accused" when describing The Golden Order's charge against them, I believe The Nomadic Merchants did in fact worship the Flame prior to being buried underground. We know this because there are Merchants above ground who use Frenzied Incantations, despite being well within their wits (as much as anyone in The Land Between can be, anyway). We know enough about Midra to safely assert he was deeply knowledge about Frenzy at best, or a regretful apostate at worst. The spirit of a servant tells us "heed the words of our great master, Midra. 'approach not the madness - lest ye succumb.'" Master Willem could be heard in the distance groaning approvingly. Even a minor location like The Frenzied Village contains Shabriri's Woe, which may suggest The Frenzy's prophet was the subject of religious veneration. I believe it's much like how raising the Cthulhu Mythos skill reduces the ceiling of your Sanity in Call of Cthulu, or of course, the inverted correlation between insight and frenzy resistance in Bloodborne. The closer you get to the fire, the likelier you are to get burned.

Ethan Ryan

I personally think that the three fingers are an aberrant birth from metyr who through despair (from being cast out or from realizing there was no connection to the greater will at all) became the avatar of the frenzied flame because it was the god it could connect to. I don't have any proof for the pudding, but it's the simplest explanation to me

Jonathan Scratch

To piggyback on what others have already said vis a vis the realm of shadow being lousy with Frenzied Flame: it does seem like the flame needs to be "let in", some kind of acceptance has to happen. I'd like to add that the Frenzied Flame is very likely connected to (you guessed it) Berserk. To keep spoilers minimal and this post from being a thesis I'll just say that the Frenzied Flame seems to work like the Eclipse/the Interstice but without Behelits, appearing only at places were very specific conditions are met and the idea of the Flame is present/acknowledged like an infectious concept. If that makes any sense at all

Zach Lawrence

Is there a BSC for bloodborne? I can only find a cut content episode. You two are amazing, BTW