Episode 163: A STORM OF SWORDS, CATELYN II: "Things Fall Apart" SHOW NOTES! (Patreon)

Hello and welcome to the Not A Cast … podcast: the one true chapter-by-chapter podcast going through A Song of Ice and Fire one chapter a week. I’m one of your hosts Jeff better known as BryndenBFish.

And I’m your other host Emmett, better known as PoorQuentyn.

Welcome to the one hundred and sixty-third episode of the Not A Cast, titled: “Things Fall Apart: An Analysis of ASOS, Catelyn II” in which amazing news, everyone! Catelyn Stark once again did nothing wrong by following her heart! Legally-speaking, anyhow.

Re-Introduce Kavita

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Question

Ser Cory L, a Sworn Sword patron, asks:

Hey guys, I was just curious as to whether either of you (but especially Jeff) are familiar with the ASOIAF Miniatures game by CMON. I got sucked into collecting and painting the models because of how close it ties into the lore, but I've also started getting into the actual gameplay and it has admittedly opened me up to other types of miniature wargames (e.g. Warhammer). I figured Jeff with his interest in military history and tactics might find it interesting.

So, thank you Cory for the question. If you’d like to ask us questions we must answer here on the NotACast pod-cast, you are welcome to become a Sworn Sword or higher-level patron over at patreon.com/NotACastASOIAF where you can get show notes, merch, weekly minisodes, access to the NotASlack and shout-outs at the start and end of every episode. Oh and BONUS EPISODES like our November patreon episode which is going to be all about how Edmure Tully absolutely mucked up by failing to follow Robb Stark’s clear order to merely “Hold Riverrun”!

Wait, wait, wait. I thought this episode was going to be about how Robb Stark absolutely mucked up his order to Edmure Tully by not specifying his orders and how Robb is at fault here?

Debatable. Oh wait. Hey! That’s what this bonus episode is going to be all about: a debate about what really went down at the Fords and where fault lies: with Edmure, with Robb or maybe with George RR Martin!

It’s going to be a lot of fun to revisit that topic and settle the score once and for all. Or more likely: just have a lot of fun unpacking all salient points of the debate and engage in some good, spirited discussion. This episode will only be available for our $5/above patrons. So, if you’re not a patron, consider becoming one at patreon.com/NotACastASOIAF.

But enough about patreon. When we last checked in with Catelyn, she had been confined to the gentlest of prisons for her crime of light treason in releasing Jaime Lannister against Robb’s explicit orders (that order is explicit at least). Let’s find out what happens when Robb Stark returns in this synopsis of ASOS, Catelyn II!

Synopsis

Robb, she knew, the moment she heard the kennels erupt.

Her son had returned to Riverrun, and Grey Wind with him. Only the scent of the great grey direwolf could send the hounds into such a frenzy of baying and barking. He will come to me, she knew. Edmure had not returned after his first visit, preferring to spend his days with Marq Piper and Patrek Mallister, listening to Rymund the Rhymer's verses about the battle at the Stone Mill. Robb is not Edmure, though. Robb will see me.

This is the Catelyn chapter I’ve been looking forward to for a long, long time! Yeah, baby!

The rain, rain, rain came down, down, down, and this was where Catelyn was at emotionally. Hoster was alive but fading each day, asking for forgiveness after mentioning “Tansy.” Edmure left her alone, and she was unable to walk around the castle. The only recent bright spot was when Ser Robin Ryger and his men returned without Jaime or Brienne.

Catelyn found something else was afoot when she heard angry voices below her father’s chambers. Men and horses were riding away from Riverrun, and the Stark banner was on the ground while a knight trampled the banner. Ser Perwyn Frey and Martyn Rivers were among the trampling men. And then they all rode from Riverrun. When Catelyn asked Maester Vyman what was up, he refused to tell her. He was only the maester. Vyman says that Edmure would tell her if he wanted to.

But now Robb was returned from the west, returned in triumph. He will forgive me, Catelyn told herself. He must forgive me, he is my own son, and Arya and Sansa are as much his blood as mine. He will free me from these rooms and then I will know what has happened.

Ser Desmond Grell was the one to retrieve Catelyn for an audience with Robb. She’s escorted to the Great Hall of Riverrun, wondering if she’s lost two sons or three. Damn. More sad shit from Catelyn.

As Catelyn enters the hall, she sees the assembled lords and ladies of the North and South. She wonders if half of them will want her hanged. Half of them will turn away from her. And was there someone missing in the ranks?

Robb stood on the dais. He is a boy no longer, she realized with a pang. He is sixteen now, a man grown. Just look at him. War had melted all the softness from his face and left him hard and lean. He had shaved his beard away, but his auburn hair fell uncut to his shoulders. The recent rains had rusted his mail and left brown stains on the white of his cloak and surcoat. Or perhaps the stains were blood. On his head was the sword crown they had fashioned him of bronze and iron. He bears it more comfortably now. He bears it like a king.

The hero Edmure Tully was below the dais as Robb praises him for his victory at the Stone Mill, but Robb warns that the Lannisters will march soon, and they’ll have battles to fight. The Greatjon shouts “King in the North!”, and the river lords shout “King of the Trident!”. Everyone shouts, pounds their fists on tables and stomps their feet on ground like a bunch of Philadelphians when the cheese whiz is brought out.

No one really notices Catelyn at first, but as she moves forward, more people give way to her, and quiet starts to follow her. She doesn’t care about the judgement of these people though. She only cares about Robb and what he’ll say. Catelyn sees Nuncle Brynden on the dais and is comforted by his familiar face. But the squire next to Robb was new. And there were other news faces up with Robb on the dais: a young knight with seashells on his surcoat, an older knight with three pepperpots, an attractive older woman and a pretty maid. Who could these folks be? They seem nice and cheery! Catelyn thinks they’re prisoners, but why would Robb bring prisoners up to the dais?

Utherydes Wayn banged his staff on the floor as Ser Desmond escorted her forward. If Robb looks at me as Edmure did, I do not know what I will do. But it seemed to her that it was not anger she saw in her son's eyes, but something else . . . apprehension, perhaps? No, that made no sense. What should he fear? He was the Young Wolf, King of the Trident and the North.

Brynden greets Catelyn first, pulling Catelyn into his arms for a hug and telling Cat it’s good that she’s home. Catelyn, trying not to cry, responds in kind. And then it’s time for Catelyn to reunite with Robb.

"Mother."

Catelyn looked up at her tall kingly son. "Your Grace, I have prayed for your safe return. I had heard you were wounded."

"I took an arrow through the arm while storming the Crag," he said. "It's healed well, though. I had the best of care."

"The gods are good, then." Catelyn took a deep breath. Say it. It cannot be avoided. "They will have told you what I did. Did they tell you my reasons?"

"For the girls."

"I had five children. Now I have three."

And suddenly Lord Rickard Karstark is there to accuse Catelyn of robbing him of his vengeance. Cat tells Rickard that killing Jaime wouldn’t have brought his sons back, but releasing Jaime may bring back Sansa and Arya. Unsurprisingly, Karstark is unappeased. His dead sons deserved better of Catelyn.

But then Greatjon Umber tells Rickard to buzz off. It was a mother’s folly. Not folly, counters Rickard. Treason.

"Enough." For just an instant Robb sounded more like Brandon than his father. "No man calls my lady of Winterfell a traitor in my hearing, Lord Rickard." When he turned to Catelyn, his voice softened. "If I could wish the Kingslayer back in chains I would. You freed him without my knowledge or consent . . . but what you did, I know you did for love. For Arya and Sansa, and out of grief for Bran and Rickon. Love's not always wise, I've learned. It can lead us to great folly, but we follow our hearts . . . wherever they take us. Don't we, Mother?"

Is that what I did? "If my heart led me into folly, I would gladly make whatever amends I can to Lord Karstark and yourself."

Again, you’ll be shocked to find out that Rickard is unappeased. He tells Catelyn that her amends won’t help his dead sons which begs the question whether killing Jaime will help his dead sons? Regardless, he storms off, and Robb tells everyone to let him go. Also, Catelyn should forgive Rickard. Sure. She’s down. Will Robb forgive her?

"I have. I know what it is to love so greatly you can think of nothing else."

Catelyn bowed her head. "Thank you." I have not lost this child, at least.

"We must talk," Robb went on. "You and my uncles. Of this and . . . other things. Steward, call an end."

The Riverrun session is called to a halt, and suddenly Catelyn realizes who was missing: Grey Wind! Where was Robb’s direwolf? But before she can ask the question, there’s a group of people around her. Lady Maege Mormont tells her she would have done the same. Greatjon Umber gives her a big bear hug. Galbart Glover, Jason Mallister and Jonos Bracken are polite but cool. But Edmure comes up to Cat and tells her she prays for Catelyn’s girls. Catelyn loves Edmure for that.

But then everyone stops talking, and the Great Hall was empty except for Robb, Edmure, Brynden, Catelyn and six strangers. She asks if these folks are new to Robb.

"New," said the younger knight, him of the seashells, "but fierce in our courage and firm in our loyalties, as I hope to prove to you, my lady."

Robb looked uncomfortable. "Mother, " he said, "may I present the Lady Sybell, the wife of Lord Gawen Westerling of the Crag." The older woman came forward with solemn mien. "Her husband was one of those we took captive in the Whispering Wood."

Robb continues the introductions. Ser Rolph Spicer and the children of Lord Gawn and Lady Sybell: Ser Raynald, a little girl named Elenya, Robb’s new squire Rollam. Catelyn says she’s honored, but she’s confused how Robb won the Crag’s loyalty. She doesn’t doubt that they’re here in Riverrun trying to hide from Tywin.

The maid came forward last, and very shy. Robb took her hand. "Mother," he said, "I have the great honor to present you the Lady Jeyne Westerling. Lord Gawen's elder daughter, and my . . . ah . . . my lady wife."

The first thought that flew across Catelyn's mind was, No, that cannot be, you are only a child.

The second was, And besides, you have pledged another.

The third was, Mother have mercy, Robb, what have you done?

Only then came her belated remembrance. Follies done for love? He has bagged me neat as a hare in a snare. I seem to have already forgiven him. Mixed with her annoyance was a rueful admiration; the scene had been staged with the cunning worthy of a master mummer . . . or a king. Catelyn saw no choice but to take Jeyne Westerling's hands. "I have a new daughter," she said, more stiffly than she'd intended. She kissed the terrified girl on both cheeks. "Be welcome to our hall and hearth."

Jeyne says she’ll be a good, true wife for Robb and a good queen too. And Catelyn realizes that this girl was a queen now. But she’s got good hips for bearing children, right? RIGHT!?

But then Lady Sybell, who sadly will never fall off a cliff into lake of poison water filled with viper sharks, asks if everyone might take a nap while Cat talks with Robb. The King in the North agrees, and Edmure offers to introduce everyone to his steward. Rollam asks if he has to go as he’s Robb’s squire. Yeah, kid. Robb doesn’t need squiring now. Go play nintendo or see a Star War or something. And with that, Catelyn’s new family departs.

"Your wife is lovely," Catelyn said when they were out of earshot, "and the Westerlings seem worthy . . . though Lord Gawen is Tywin Lannister's sworn man, is he not?"

"Yes. Jason Mallister captured him in the Whispering Wood and has been holding him at Seagard for ransom. Of course I'll free him now, though he may not wish to join me. We wed without his consent, I fear, and this marriage puts him in dire peril. The Crag is not strong. For love of me, Jeyne may lose all."

"And you," she said softly, "have lost the Freys."

Robb winces, and Catelyn realizes now why Perwyn Frey and Martyn Rivers rolled out of Riverrun so fast. So, the Westerlings bring a lot of swords to Robb’s cause? Ah, no. They have fifty soldiers and a dozen knights. Seems a poor bargain given that the Freys had a thousand knights and three thousand infantry that they sent Robb. But Robb retorts that Jeyne is smart, hot, kind and gentle which is not a retort.

It is swords you need, not gentle hearts. How could you do this, Robb? How could you be so heedless, so stupid? How could you be so . . . so very . . . young. Reproaches would not serve here, however. All she said was, "Tell me how this came to be."

"I took her castle and she took my heart.,' Robb smiled. "The Crag was weakly garrisoned, so we took it by storm one night. Black Walder and the Smalljon led scaling parties over the walls, while I broke the main gate with a ram. I took an arrow in the arm just before Ser Rolph yielded us the castle. It seemed nothing at first, but it festered. Jeyne had me taken to her own bed, and she nursed me until the fever passed. And she was with me when the Greatjon brought me the news of . . . of Winterfell. Bran and Rickon." He seemed to have trouble saying his brothers' names. "That night, she . . . she comforted me, Mother."

Catelyn knows that Robb means that he did the sex act with Jeyne, and she asks if Robb married her the next day. Proud and miserable, Robb says he did. It was honorable. She’ll be a good wife. Yeahhhhh, maybe, but Walder Frey won’t like it. Robb knows and thinks he’s fucked everything but the battles up. And maybe if he listened to Catelyn about Theon, Bran and Rickon would be alive. Maybe, maybe not, Catelyn says. But what happened to the Freys?

Stevron might have helped out, but he was dead, and Black Walder told Robb that he would like to murder Jeyne so he could marry one of his sisters. Robb would have killed him first, but Jeyne asked for mercy for Black Walder.

"You have done House Frey a grievous insult, Robb."

Robb didn’t mean to insult the Freys. But when the Freys started running, some of his bannermen urged Robb to fight them. But Robb didn’t, and that was smart. Robb thought maybe he could marry some of his bannermen off to Freys, but Catelyn knows that Walder Frey wouldn’t take to that. Robb married a girl from a nobler, older house, and that would salt Lord Frey’s wounds.

Robb bristled at that. "The Westerlings are better blood than the Freys. They're an ancient line, descended from the First Men. The Kings of the Rock sometimes wed Westerlings before the Conquest, and there was another Jeyne Westerling who was queen to King Maegor three hundred years ago."

"All of which will only salt Lord Walder's wounds. It has always rankled him that older houses look down on the Freys as upstarts. This insult is not the first he's borne, to hear him tell it. Jon Arryn was disinclined to foster his grandsons, and my father refused the offer of one of his daughters for Edmure." She inclined her head toward her brother as he rejoined them.

Brynden Tully says maybe they talk in private, and Robb agreeds. He needs some wine. They head off to the audience chamber, and Catelyn asks where Grey Wind is. Is the direwolf okay? Oh, he’s not dead … not yet. He’s in the yard with some mutton. But why is he not with Robb? Because he’s restless these days for some weird reason. No need to explore why he’s all riled up. He’s killed a lot of men and isn’t afraid of them. Jeyne and her mom are scared of the direwolf. Catelyn realizes that the real reason he’s not here is because of the Westerlings, and she cautions Robb that Grey Wolf is a part of him. But he killed people at the Crag, Ashemark and at Oxcross? Robb counters. Sure, but Summer killed the catspaw at Winterfell, and Cat loves the wolf now. Robb says that’s different. Grey Wind killed a knight Jeyne knew. And Grey Wind doesn’t like Ser Rolph Spicer. So, what’s a king to do?

A chill went through [Catelyn]. "Send Ser Rolph away. At once."

"Where? Back to the Crag, so the Lannisters can mount his head on a spike? Jeyne loves him. He's her uncle, and a fair knight besides. I need more men like Rolph Spicer, not fewer. I am not going to banish him just because my wolf doesn't seem to like the way he smells."

"Robb." She stopped and held his arm. "I told you once to keep Theon Greyjoy close, and you did not listen. Listen now. Send this man away. I am not saying you must banish him. Find some task that requires a man of courage, some honorable duty, what it is matters not . . . but do not keep him near you."

Robb asks if Grey Wind should conduct a smell test of all his knights, and Catelyn’s like, yeah, sounds great. Hire the wolf for the job. There were five wolf pups, and the northern gods sent them to her kids. Five wolves for five Starks. No. Not five, Robb corrects. Six. Jon had one too. The wolves were supposed to be guardians and protectors, until …

Robb's mouth tightened. " . . . Until they told me that Theon had murdered Bran and Rickon. Small good their wolves did them. I am no longer a boy, Mother. I'm a king, and I can protect myself." He sighed. "I will find some duty for Ser Rolph, some pretext to send him away. Not because of his smell, but to ease your mind. You have suffered enough."

Catelyn is relieved and kisses Robb, thinking that Robb was her boy for a moment and not the king. So good.

They enter Hoster’s audience chamber as Robb takes the high seat while Edmure is in mid-conversation, telling Brynden about the battle at the Stone Mill.

It was only after the servants had come and gone that the Blackfish cleared his throat and said, "I think we've all heard sufficient of your boasting, Nephew."

Edmure was taken aback. "Boasting? What do you mean?"

"I mean," said the Blackfish, "that you owe His Grace your thanks for his forbearance. He played out that mummer's farce in the Great Hall so as not to shame you before your own people. Had it been me I would have flayed you for your stupidity rather than praising this folly of the fords."

Outraged, Edmure talks about the good men who died or whether Robb was the only one who was supposed to win battles or glory.

"Your Grace," Robb corrected, icy. "You took me for your king, Uncle. Or have you forgotten that as well?"

The Blackfish said, "You were commanded to hold Riverrun, Edmure, no more."

"I held Riverrun, and I bloodied Lord Tywin's nose-"

"So you did," said Robb. "But a bloody nose won't win the war, will it? Did you ever think to ask yourself why we remained in the west so long after Oxcross? You knew I did not have enough men to threaten Lannisport or Casterly Rock."

Now playing the stump the chump game, Edmure says um, maybe they were there for castles or gold or cattle? No, dispshit. They wanted Tywin to come west. Wait, they did? Yeah, you goddamn moron. They had a great plan that you and solely you, Edmure, fucked up royally.

"We were all horsed," Ser Brynden said. "The Lannister host was mainly foot. We planned to run Lord Tywin a merry chase up and down the coast, then slip behind him to take up a strong defensive position athwart the gold road, at a place my scouts had found where the ground would have been greatly in our favor. If he had come at us there, he would have paid a grievous price. But if he did not attack, he would have been trapped in the west, a thousand leagues from where he needed to be. All the while we would have lived off his land, instead of him living off ours."

Meanwhile, Stannis would attack King’s Landing and defeat Joffrey. They could have made a peace then. Don’t you feel bad, Edmure? I sure hope you don’t feel like the total fucking failure that you are.

Edmure looked from uncle to nephew. "You never told me."

"I told you to hold Riverrun, " said Robb. "What part of that command did you fail to comprehend?"

Brynden fills in some more details about the Blackwater: how Edmure’s defense allowed Tyrell riders to reach Tywin about King’s Landing. Then Tywin turned his army around and joined with Matthis Rowan and Randyll Tarly, marched to Tumbler’s Falls. They met Mace Tyrell and the rest of his army there, boarded barges, floated down the river and attacked Stannis.

Catelyn remembers King Renly’s court and how it seemed so blissful and innocent. She wonders if it would have been better if Robb had fallen into Margaery Tyrell’s arms. The Tyrells would have made a difference in the war.

Edmure looked ill. "I never meant . . . never, Robb, you must let me make amends. I will lead the van in the next battle!"

For amends, Brother? Or for glory? Catelyn wondered.

"The next battle," Robb said. "Well, that will be soon enough. Once Joffrey is wed, the Lannisters will take the fleld against me once more, I don't doubt, and this time the Tyrells will march beside them. And I may need to fight the Freys as well, if Black Walder has his way . . . "

Catelyn points out that they need to get back north to retake Winterfell and hang Theon Greyjoy in a crow’s cage. If Robb refused to follow Catelyn’s advice, then he should take off his crown. Stunned at being talked to that way, Robb retorts that he wanted to go north, but he didn’t think Theon would harm Bran or Rickon. But all that is too late.

"It is too late for ifs, and too late for rescues," Catelyn said. "All that remains is vengeance."

Robb states that the latest news from the north was that Ser Rodrik defeated the Ironborn and was getting ready to attack Winterfell. Maybe he’s retaken the castle now? Well, no, but it’s a nice thought. There’d been no news of the utter fucking disaster shitshow of the Siege of Winterfell. But if Robb goes north, he can’t ask the river lords to go with him. Catelyn agrees, saying the river lords should defend their own. But there’s a big problem. They can’t get north with the ironborn controlling the seas and holding Moat Cailin. Furthermore, if they march up the causeway, they’ll be trapped between Freys at the Twins and the Ironborn at Moat Cailin. They would all die in this cheery scenario. So, wutdo?

"We must win back the Freys," said Robb. "With them, we still have some chance of success, however small. Without them, I see no hope. I am willing to give Lord Walder whatever he requires . . . apologies, honors, lands, gold . . . there must be something that would soothe his pride . . . "

"Not something," said Catelyn. "Someone."

And that is the synopsis of ASOS, Catelyn II! Goodness, what a fantastic chapter! It’s chapters like these that help me fall in love with the political plotting of this story all over again. What did you think, ser?

Depth

Not exactly a hot take to call this the best chapter in ASOS so far! Catelyn II is just so rich: a great big brutalist monolith of a chapter, a narrative steamroller that nothing escapes. Catelyn I was an overture, establishing the tragic structure of this storyline more in terms of mood than plot: Catelyn and her dying father dreaming of ghosts, haunted by the word “tansy.” That was the style, and now we get the substance. Less poetry, more architecture. Catelyn II provides the foundational blocks for so many of the narrative turns and character developments to come. It reaches back to the Battle of the Fords and Robb’s campaign in the Westerlands, but also reaches forward to the Red Wedding and its aftermath. This chapter is a hub, like a central station in a city everyone has to transfer through to get anywhere. But for all the functional work George has to do here, he never loses sight of the people ground up in the gears, a mother reunited with her son at last, only to discover they’ve both basically ruined everything forever.

Back in the day, not too long ago, I had this blog known as Wars and Politics of Ice and Fire. Because when I first came out of reading the series and then re-reading it two more times, I really loved the … wars and politics of ice and fire. It’s in the name! This chapter is damn near the pinnacle of my initial love and interest in writing about the series. There’s political gamesmanship, family drama, military strategizing and a new political plan all in the span of one chapter. Plus, it’s hard to believe, but this is the first time we’ve seen Robb Stark in the flesh since ACOK, Catelyn I, and as much as Catelyn doesn’t camera Robb and continues to be the POV and providing a voice here, the king becomes the main character of the chapter.

Way back when I first read these books, as I said to Emmett back in August, Cat was my favourite POV character, and these ASOS chapters are just filled with dread and slow, crawling suspense and horror. You know something is really wrong, and all the characters can feel it, but nobody’s saying it. And there’s that unrelenting rain that began at the end of ACOK (coinciding, I’m pretty sure, with the news of Winterfell falling) and follows Cat until the end.

• Reintroduction of Robb
  • This chapter kicks off with a bang, to get our attention as well as Catelyn’s: all the dogs in Riverrun howling to herald the return of the king
  • They’re not happy he’s back, though. It’s the smell of Grey Wind throwing them off: the fearsome predator like Arya warging into Nymeria
  • Robb’s status as the Young Wolf literally and figuratively sets him apart from the pack. And as with Arya, this allows him to lead as a uniquely powerful figure, but it also alienates and isolates him
  • This ought to feel like a homecoming, but the dogs barking are a reminder that Robb is in some ways still an outsider, despite his Tully blood and looks: he came down from the North, and will die trying to get back there
    • Also interesting that all we’ve had since the very beginning of ACOK when Cat and Robb parted ways are these rumours about Robb that keep cropping up in the King’s Landing and Harrenhal chapters. So it’s like coming back down to earth from legend, a little bit.
  • Power resides where we believe it resides, and that cuts both ways. Grey Wind was a symbol of Robb’s strength when his star was rising, but now that it’s falling, the direwolf is something to fear, resent, even hate
  • This also represents Catelyn’s anxiety over what Robb will think of her now, after she set Jaime free. She’s been cooped up with her dying and delirious father, knowing that important things are happening but not knowing what they are and unable to do anything about them
  • While Catelyn wants Robb’s forgiveness, she also just wants to get the hell out of this room and back into the flow of information in the game of thrones. She could be one of those barking dogs; his arrival will provide the necessary catharsis, get it all in the open for better or worse
  • This is the moment she has both dreamt of and dreaded, George writes; her fears and desires come crashing together around her last son
  • Has she lost him too? She won’t be able to bear it if Robb hates her now, her firstborn who came into the world red-faced and squalling. She’s losing her father, her brother won’t talk to her, let my little boy still love me!
  • But he’s more than her little boy now. Catelyn only realizes that because they’ve been apart for so long. When your loved ones are around you all the time, you might not notice them changing; when they go away and come back, suddenly the aging process becomes tangible, undeniable
  • Robb has grown up. War has melted the softness off him, she thinks, a perfect metaphor that echoes the last time Jon saw Robb, the snowflakes melting in his fiery red hair. Now Robb has melted--gone through the crucible, reforged as something “lean and hard” like a sword (or a dick)
  • We haven’t seen him in a long time, either! Robb was off-page for most of ACOK; George has said he regrets that, and I get why, but I think that gap actually makes this chapter better
    • I agree. Keeping Robb off-page is incredibly effective during ACOK. We know he’s out there, we know he’s giving the Lannisters problems all over the place, but we also know that he’s not quite accomplishing what he set out to accomplish.
  • Partially because it preserves the surprise of his marriage, and partially because it makes us stop and reckon with him just like his mother does
  • Last time we saw the King in the North, the teenage prodigy who was going to win the war and make everything OK again, he was uncomfortable with his new crown, always shifting it around on his head
  • Now he wears it comfortably. Remember what Syrio said to Arya about how she has to think of the sword as part of her arm? You can’t drop your arm! Robb has come to feel the same way about his crown: he can’t take it off any more than he could take off the weary head beneath it
  • “He bears it like a king,” Catelyn thinks, and the irony is that he has only grown into his kingdom here and now, as things fall apart
  • Along the same lines, Robb fully comes into his own as a character in ASOS, which is what makes it so painful---and effective--when George rips him away from us along with his mother
  • He already stood out as George’s young hotshot who could do no wrong, a clear Edward IV analogue: father beheaded, a claim to an ancient crown, a flawless record on the battlefield, and now we get the unwise marriage and the resulting betrayal from his vassals
    • Edward IV is not as well known as his younger brother Richard III, which is weird because the man is a walking soap opera.
    • This is an instance where George is picking up different historical pieces and scattering them around. In AGOT, we get a parallel to the later reign of Edward IV in Robert Baratheon; in ASOS, we get a parallel to the early part of his reign in Robb Stark (see, even the names are similar!).
    • I don’t know if you want a rapid-fire rundown of “How Edward IV fucked around (both literally and figuratively) and found out in the 1460s” but it begins on the first of May, 1464, on a road in Northamptonshire where a 19-year-old who just found himself catapulted onto the English throne sees a gorgeous woman under a nearby oak tree and,  because he’s the King of England, he assumes he she’ll be more than happy to sleep with him. Spoiler: She is not.
    • We don’t know the details (for obvious reasons) and the accounts vary, including the very real possibility that this was not consensual, but what we all know is how it ended, and that is with this woman, Elizabeth Woodville, becoming Queen of England in 1465.
    • But that’s not the end of the story. As a result of his sudden marriage, which brought the large, attractive, charismatic, and not very well-off Woodville family into the royal fold, the civil wars that came to be known as the Wars of the Roses restarted, this time as a dispute between the House of York and its own supporters.
    • Edward and his heretofore greatest ally, Richard Neville Earl of Warwick, found themselves on opposite sides. Warwick opposed the rise of the Woodvilles (maybe he saw them as a threat to his own power, maybe he feared their prior connections to the rival house of Lancaster, or maybe he was just a dick; any or all of those could be true). Just as importantly, Warwick won the allegiance of Edward’s younger brother (and heir presumptive), George of Clarence.
    • Things bubbled for several years until, in 1469, Warwick escalated to actual rebellion, arming several groups of dissidents in and around his own territories in the north of England and Lincolnshire, and spreading propaganda that the Woodvilles were corrupting the Yorkist regime.
    • Late in 1469, he even attempted to kidnap Edward and hold him hostage until he capitulated. That did not work, and Warwick ended up fleeing to France under dire circumstances for his family, if not necessarily for him (his elder daughter, who had married George of Clarence to shore up that alliance, suffered a traumatic miscarriage during a storm in the Channel).
    • And THAT is where the biggest twist happens. Warwick brokers an alliance between his half of the Neville/York faction and...the House of Lancaster! The same people he’d been killing on the battlefield ten years earlier. It was shocking to everyone, probably including his new allies.
    • There’s a great story from the French sources about Queen Margaret of Anjou, the functional leader of the Lancastrians, keeping Warwick on his knees for an hour in front of the entire French court, before accepting him as her ally.
    • Warwick also got a second marriage alliance out of it, his younger daughter Anne and the son of Margaret and Henry VI, Prince Edward of Lancaster.
    • But George deviates from the parallel in a major, and tragic way--the historical Edward IV had to flee his kingdom, but then managed to scrape together enough of a naval force to invade and retake England. He’s the only English monarch to have managed it, through a combination of sheer dumb luck and some well-planned strategic alliances with the other major power player in Northern Europe, the Duchy of Burgundy (an alliance made possible by--you guessed it--his marriage to Elizabeth Woodville, whose mother was related to the duke of Burgundy).
    • The historical Edward won back his throne, but spent the rest of his life on a bender until he died from pneumonia at age 41 and the civil war started AGAIN.
    • That’s Robert Baratheon. Robb Stark’s path is what might have happened if Edward’s invasion in 1471 had not only failed, but destroyed his family too.
  • But Robb isn’t only a historical archetype, he’s a tragic figure whose fall we are made to feel as well as understand
  • When Catelyn looks at his mail, rusted by the rain, she wonders for a moment if it’s blood. By the end of her story in this book, it will be
  • It’s as though the future is bleeding into the present, Robb’s doom ushering him into the grave no matter how proper a king he looks
  • This shapeless dread will be given form when Catelyn learns Robb got married, but the tone of tragedy is already there in the rain, in her father’s dying whispers, in the color palette of black and white and gray
  • This already feels like a funeral procession; Robb already feels like a dead man. Is he, though? Is he doomed by destiny, or does he doom himself?
  • That’s the core mystery of so much of tragedy. Who makes the world? Are we responsible for our fates, or is it the gods?
  • In one corner, Oedipus declares that the greatest griefs are those we cause ourselves. In the other corner, Jocasta says chance rules our lives
  • Robb makes clear mistakes, but he also has bad luck. Sometimes bad luck makes his mistakes worse; some of his mistakes are made in response to bad luck. It’s an ouroborous eating itself
  • If only we could reconcile ourselves to one extreme or the other, we might find peace, as self-actualized souls or as meat puppets, as gods or beasts
  • Instead, we are condemned to live and die in between. The agony of uncertainty can be worse than any literal curse from above. Look at how Robb blames himself for everything, saying it would’ve worked out if he’d listened to Catelyn and not sent Theon home. Many readers agree!
  • But Catelyn doesn’t. Instead of saying “I told you so,” she points out that Balon Greyjoy might have gone ahead and invaded the North anyway
  • And she’s right: Balon didn’t give a rat’s ass about Theon. He was already amassing his forces before Theon even showed up
  • The point is that we have no idea what would have changed if Robb had done this differently, or done that differently, and we never will
  • In our desperate desire to control that which can’t be controlled, we end up ruining that which is in our control. That’s a huge part of tragedy: characters misunderstand their own relationship to the world, manifesting as a series of disturbances in which they feel left behind by time itself
    • As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods / They kill us for their sport.
    • One of the things I admire so much about George’s plotting is that there isn’t one single event you can point to and say “sure, if this went a different way, everything would be fine.” There are so many different moving parts that even changing a major thing (e.g. Robb or Cat surviving the Red Wedding) would only change a portion of the events as a whole. That’s where the ‘realism’ of his narrative comes from, I think, more so than the setting or the culture. It’s that sense that even the ‘main’ characters are just cogs in a much larger and more complicated world, even if we only get glimpses of that world.
  • Robb Stark’s return to the narrative is one of the more fascinating parts of the writing of ASOS.
  • You pointed out that GRRM said he regretted not making Robb a POV , and I agree with you that this was not a mistake.
  • The reason why it’s NotAMistake is that Robb’s return in ASOS is like a loose end of the narrative rejoining the story.
  • ACOK was all about new characters/settings like Dragonstone, Stannis and Davos or putting familiar characters into new circumstances: Catelyn as an envoy, Tyrion as Hand of the King.
  • All the while, Robb was out in the Westerlands performing exactly as he did in AGOT: kicking Lannister ass through incredible feats on the battlefield.
  • Robb’s return is sequenced precisely; so that he’s thrust back into the narrative at the moment that everything has changed. Or has it?
  • Seen through the prism of writing, Robb’s return to the narrative is similar to what was seen towards the late-middle of AGOT where everything looked hopeless for the Starks.
  • The Lannisters have Ned Stark in the dungeons, Sansa is writing letters asking Robb and Catelyn to swear to Joffrey, the Lannisters have two large armies in the field threatening Riverrun and the North.
  • But we saw what happened with Robb then: he came up with a masterful military strategy, dividing his army and winning glorious victories at the Whispering Wood and the camps outside of Riverrun.
  • A subtle genius about Robb’s return in ASOS is that we are primed to think that GRRM is going to perform a redux of that earlier dynamic of the Starks winning crushing victories despite the odds stacked against them.
  • As we progress into Robb’s story in ASOS, GRRM seeds the narrative ground that Robb will perform the impossible yet again, take Moat Cailin and drive the Ironborn out of the North.
  • But GRRM has removed his hand of protection from Robb and Catelyn. And it was something he was plotting from the beginning as he told Entertainment Weekly in 2013:
    • I killed Ned because everybody thinks he’s the hero and that, sure, he’s going to get into trouble, but then he’ll somehow get out of it. The next predictable thing is to think his eldest son is going to rise up and avenge his father. And everybody is going to expect that. So immediately [killing Robb] became the next thing I had to do.
  • What makes for perfect tragedy is the element of hope -- a hope outlined against the faint edges of realism and a hope that gets dashed.
  • Catelyn starts the chapter hopeful (and fearful), knowing that Robb has returned to Riverrun.
  • And yet the weather provides the mood for the chapter. It’s raining hard in this chapter, and the rain won’t stop until the end of Catelyn’s story.
  • The narrative knows that this is a curtain call for Robb Stark, and it mourns for the dead king riding -- even if the characters in the story try to fight fate.
• The bomb drops
  • So Catelyn goes into this scene expecting, dreading, that Robb will treat her with contempt and scorn
  • As it turns out, though, Robb is if anything even more anxious about her getting mad at him! He screwed up worse than she did
  • The first time through, all you can do is process the shock of Robb’s marriage; on reread, you can see the masterful construction at work
  • Robb is so afraid of how his mom will react that he puts it off as long as possible, slow-rolling the reveal to such an extent that it becomes comical
    • That also jumped out at me this time on reread. It’s such a great slow-roll; she knows something isn’t right but it’s not until Robb’s big revelation that all the prior pieces suddenly fall into place.
    • These moments are why Catelyn was my original favourite POV back when I first read these books at age 19. I think she might still be now. In fact, now that I have kids of my own, her chapters are so much more painful, especially in ASOS.
    • (Sidenote: it has struck me so much more on this most recent reread how young Ned and Cat and that whole generation is. All of them got horribly traumatised in their teens, and now in their mid-thirties, their world has fallen apart again.)
  • This, in turn, allows George to stretch out Catelyn’s anxiety to an agonizing degree, as she notices every detail suggesting something is off without knowing what until Robb forces himself to say it out loud
  • We haven’t seen much of Catelyn’s keen political mind in her last couple chapters; at the end of ACOK and the start of ASOS, she’s more inward
  • Now the scope of her POV is widening again to match Robb’s return to the gameboard, and we can see how she analyzes all the pieces at play
  • First she sees men leaving Riverrun: an ominous sign, like rats off a ship. Worse, they trample the direwolf banner on the way out. So this isn’t just about their desperate position after the Blackwater--even Edmure was rattled by that! This is something uglier: a rejection, a promise of violence
  • Timeline note: the Freys bugging out of Riverrun is sequenced immediately after events from Catelyn I as it’s said that the Freys rolled out the day Edmure arrived back from the Fords.
  • When we covered Catelyn I, I made the offhanded theory during our theory discussion that I wondered whether Vyman found out that Robb had gotten married, and that was the information that he kept from Catelyn.
  • I think this is a clue that the letter that contained information about Robb’s wounding at the Crag also contained information about Robb marrying Jeyne Westerling.
    • The timing works perfectly on that; given how soon Robb married Jeyne after being wounded, it makes sense that both pieces of news would be in the same message.
  • If the Freys rolled out immediately after arriving back at Riverrun, that means that the information of Robb’s marriage arrived at Riverrun prior to Robb’s return.
  • For that matter, we know that the information also traveled to Harrenhal as Elmar Frey talks about his house being dishonored.
  • So, yes, long-story-short: Vyman (as well as Edmure) kept the secret of Robb’s marriage from Catelyn until the king arrived back at Riverrun.
  • I wonder if this was done at Robb’s explicit command in the letter, or whether Vyman and Edmure spent a nervous fifteen minutes saying, “I’m not going to be the one to tell her.”
    • These are all good questions and it’s so interesting how the timing plays out. I’m going to guess it was Robb who determined to keep the news from Catelyn, although one wonders if he decided this before or after he found out that she freed Jaime?
    • E.g. Do we know if Robb knew about Jaime’s escape before he slept with Jeyne? I think not, but what do you think?
    • I don’t know that Edmure or Vyman would want to make that kind of decision without Robb’s explicit go-ahead.
  • Then Catelyn sees strangers on the dais with Robb. She glances across each one in turn, focusing on their sigils, though she doesn’t know them
  • And why should she? They’re Westerlands sigils, after all. She figures that out right away, and reasonably guesses that they’re prisoners...but then why are they up there, within reach of the king, looking down at her?
  • It’s an inversion that signals many more inversions to come, right up through the Red Wedding. All the rules Catelyn knows and believes in, brought to the breaking point by all she’s seen and lost, finally give way
  • Here are the Westerlings, the enemy hiding in plain sight, the call coming from inside the house, in-laws as poisonous as the Tyrells are for Joffrey
  • They’re not only strangers, they are the Stranger: the god of death Catelyn stared down in the Stormlands, come to claim her son as Stannis threatened. While she was away, Robb gave up the keys to the kingdom
  • So when he meets her eyes, he suddenly doesn’t look like the Young Wolf anymore, the flawless warrior-king who stepped out of the songs
  • He looks like her son. And he looks afraid. As well he should: not of her, but of what he’s done, and how it’s going to combine with several other factors to bring him down. Robb is not nearly frightened enough
  • Right before it all goes wrong, George pauses to let the Blackfish be the Blackfish. He leaps down and hugs her, telling her it’s good to see her home. Fuck the politics of this moment, fuck the strained silence of secrets
  • What keeps us going through all that is love: missing each other and then seeing each other again. No wonder Catelyn struggles to keep her composure in this moment. This is everything she thought she’d lost
    • The relationship between Cat and the Blackfish is one of my favourites in the series. It’s such a wonderful depiction of emotionally supportive relatives in a series largely devoid of that. And I think it hits especially hard after those Tyrion chapters and that scene between him and Tywin.
  • Only then does she face Robb. This is one of my favorite relationships in the series, as I’ve said before; I think it’s very realistically written
  • They love each other deeply; they each define themselves by the other, in large part. Yet they also get under each other’s skin constantly
  • Intimacy is the cause of both sides of the coin. I always think of that moment in the show when Catelyn tells Robb to get Arya the hell out of the Great Hall, and it’s all done with their eyes, and it’s absolutely perfect
  • They just know each other so well...which means they can see through each other’s performances, which they both find super annoying
    • I know I said Cat and the Blackfish is a favourite relationship, but another is Cat and Robb. We don’t actually see that much of it because they spend most of ACOK separated, but they work so well together and it hurts that this partnership only comes back together when it’s already too late.
  • Being this close to someone is inherently painful, and that’s compounded by their political roles. Robb is a young king whose rule is tied to his performance of martial masculinity: not the guy who listens to his mom
  • Catelyn, meanwhile, has always been a player within what space she had; she’s used to it being restricted, but not by her red-faced baby boy
  • It felt right to take orders from Dad, because Hoster was a mythic figure whose idealized image is only now coming apart at the seams
  • Robb, though? She remembers him as an infant and then a boy with a wooden sword. She can’t possibly project onto him like the others do, and he knows that. How can he bring himself to punish her as her king?
  • Beyond the revelation Robb is about to drop on Catelyn, there are a few mentions made here in Catelyn II and the successive Catelyn chapters that no one speaks to Robb like Catelyn does.
  • As much as Greatjon Umber, Maege Mormont, Galbart Glover and others are framed heroically, their viewpoint of Robb is as their king, the guy they have to listen to.
  • Even Brynden Tully, who was named after me, sees Robb as a war-leader first and then a king, rather than a nephew -- as he’ll remind Edmure at the end of the chapter.
  • And that makes sense given that Brynden wasn’t in Winterfell when Robb grew up. He was manning the Bloody Gates as the Knight of the Gate and only met a teenaged Robb at Moat Cailin after the banners had been called.
  • For Catelyn and Robb, the intimacy as you said drives the relationship. Robb was Catelyn’s baby, her son, her boy first before he became a war-leader and king.
  • That gives Catelyn a unique relationship to Robb in that she can call him out for acting foolishly or tell him he’s making a mistake.
  • There’s an intimidation that Catelyn brings as the sole authority figure who can contradict Robb.
  • In other words, the bonds of blood go deeper than the bonds of political kinship, and that deepness can sometimes be felt in a mom chiding a wayward son.
    • Very different from Tywin bringing the brimstone down on Tyrion in his first chapter. He’s using intimacy too, but to hurt, not to aid.
  • It helps, I guess, that Rickard Karstark elbows his way in to make the prosecutor’s case against Catelyn in the most narrow-minded way possible. You betrayed me, and my dead sons!
  • That’s hardly the point! The case against Catelyn is that she gave away a major asset, who they could’ve used to sue for peace, with no way of making good on getting the girls back beyond Jaime’s word
  • Both Catelyn and Lord Karstark have lost children, and both are motivated by grief, heedless of the political fallout of their actions
  • Lord Karstark calls Catelyn a traitor, but he also says that she robbed him of vengeance by letting Jaime go, implying that he was planning on killing Jaime at some point--which would be as treasonous as letting him go
  • So Karstark is not some objectively righteous enforcer of the rules. He’s a loose cannon in his own right, a dying star sucking them all in
  • Robb picks up on that. Suddenly, ice returns to his voice, because for Karstark to call Robb’s mother a traitor is a challenge to Robb’s authority
  • Robb has a delicate needle to thread here, condemning Catelyn’s actions without condemning her, and then justifying that to his lords
  • Ironically, Catelyn is protected by the very gender roles she defied by freeing Jaime: the Greatjon writes it all off as a mother’s madness
  • Robb backs that up, saying that love led his mother into folly. Whether he actually believes that isn’t as important as his stealth confession--love led me into folly as well. “Love’s not wise,” he says, as Cersei said love is poison, as Maester Aemon says that love is the death of duty
  • The push-and-pull between the demands of power and the demands of the heart is what defines the tragic downfall of House Stark
  • I think it’s important here to point out how Robb operates smart politically even in the midst of the tragedy.
  • If anything, that Robb is doing smart politics only compounds the wings of tragedy unfolding the Starks!
  • There are several examples in this chapter of Smart!Robb, but this one is my favorite -- he gets Catelyn to forgive him for marrying Jeyne before he reveals what he did.
  • But since Catelyn points this out later in the chapter, that’s in-text.
  • What’s more subtle is that Robb puts his mother’s action in a politically-understandable lens for his vassal lords.
  • If Robb framed the action as Catelyn freeing Jaime for his girls in a clear-headed political calculus, the reaction from his lords bannermen would be negative.
  • However, in framing Catelyn as doing what she did out of love, Robb puts Catelyn’s action within a socially-acceptable framework.
  • Robb openly states in court that Catelyn was acting out of a mother’s grief, out of irrational love for her children, not out of political calculation.
  • This is an important, because it gives his mom an out in front of these battle-hardened northmen.
  • It’s also not precisely the truth as Maege Mormont points out that she would have done the same to get back her girls.
  • As flawed as Catelyn’s action was (or wasn’t) in freeing Jaime, it was not a moment of irrationality. It was a political calculation.
  • That Robb doesn’t call that to mind, allows Catelyn to avoid being labeled a traitor by everyone save for Rickard Karstark.
  • Yeah it’s playing into the misogyny inherent within the feudal system, but it works and dulls the blade for most of the northmen and rivermen save for Rickard Karstark.
  • Oooh, there’s an element to this that is both political and ceremonial. It’s kind of a twist on the idea of queenly intercession. There was this custom in medieval England where, under certain circumstances, a queen (usually the queen consort, but there are examples of the queen mother doing it) could intercede with the king on behalf of, say, someone condemned to die, to commute the sentence somehow. Sometimes it meant a quicker, easier death, but sometimes it meant freedom. Queen Anne of Bohemia, for instance, successfully interceded with King Richard II in 1392 on behalf of--at least officially--the entire city of London, who had rebelled against him. But the way this was always couched was in the idea of “a woman’s mercy” and there are a number of scholars who have written about it, like Theresa Earenfight, Elena Woodacre, Lisa Benz, and Paul Strohm. The king couldn’t change his mind if he had second thoughts about executing lots of people, but his queen could step in and nudge him in a more merciful direction so he didn’t lose face.
  • What’s interesting in how George adapts this concept is that he’s using it as an ex post facto justification for Cat’s actions. She spared Jaime out of a mother’s mercy, a mother’s folly and desperation. Robb may not have wanted that, but he’s forced to justify it because otherwise he needs to condemn his own mother for treason.
  • Catelyn first interprets the Westerlings through the lens of politics: these are Tywin’s vassals, has Robb somehow won them to his side? She knows enough to realize that doesn’t make sense. Tywin is known for repaying betrayal with brutality, ever since the Rains of Castamere
  • That’s such a chilling moment on reread, as Catelyn comes so close to the terrible truth, brushing up against her own doom without knowing it
    • It hurts on reread; she is so close to figuring all of it out. It’s like this bit in Act IV of Shakespeare’s Othello, where Iago’s wife Emilia literally states out loud exactly what has gone wrong, but the one person who needs to hear it (Desdemona) isn’t paying attention.
  • As she senses the end, George finally reveals the means, his magic trick complete. Robb has nothing left to hide behind: Mom, I got married!
  • Probably my favorite part of the chapter is how Catelyn reacts. She goes through so many thoughts and feelings so quickly; it’s complicated, but that’s exactly what makes it so relatable
  • Her first thought has nothing to do with the politics, the potential fallout for her king and her cause. She reacts as a mother: you’re far too young!
  • Part of her wants to save him from aging and adulthood, which is basically a way of saving him from death. She can’t do that; no parent can
  • Not even kings can turn back time. Robb will never be the boy with a wooden sword again; that would be true even if he lived to old age
  • Hoster will never recognize Catelyn again. Lysa will never be part of their family again. Ned’s bones are no substitute for the man himself
  • There’s also a psychosexual dynamic at work. Robb has gone from the babe at her breast to a man capable of acting on his own sexual desires
  • Catelyn immediately takes note of Jeyne’s birthing hips; both Jeyne and Robb will talk to Catelyn about their sex life. It doesn’t belong only to them
  • The personal is political, and so Catelyn’s reaction switches when she looks at Robb as a king instead of her son. You promised another; you made a marriage pact with the Freys for their support and then broke it
  • Both thoughts together give birth to the third, one of pure terror: mother have mercy, what have you done? But the Mother won’t have mercy on Robb; Catelyn, a mother herself, will be forced to watch her son die
  • Catelyn is just about to vent her anger and fear when her brain catches up, and she realizes what all that talk about love and folly was really for
  • Despite being her baby boy and despite having fucked up real bad this time, Robb manages to outplay his mother so well it impresses even her
  • He cloaks his betrayal in hers, getting her to agree to an equivalence without her realizing it--forgiving her in such a way that forgives himself
  • As Catelyn thinks, Robb has staged this scene like a master mummer--or like a king. Those roles have a lot in common: it’s all about performance
  • We’re seeing both the possibilities and the limits of that shadowplay here. On the one hand, Robb has expertly defused Catelyn’s rage, showing off his diplomatic skills. On the other hand, material reality hasn’t changed.
    • And you can tell she’s proud of him in spite of it all. I’m proud of my 5-year-old when she outmaneuvers me, even when it’s also aggravating the hell out of me.
  • It’s still a plain fact that Robb has lost the Freys. Now Catelyn understands why those men trampled on his banner on their way out of Riverrun
  • The personal and political keep playing off each other here. Robb says that Jeyne is bright, kind, with a gentle heart: a perfect queen
    • It’s interesting how the description of Jeyne here is automatically placed alongside what the reader has already seen of Margaery Tyrell (even Catelyn makes the explicit comparison later on), who is also repeatedly described as the perfect queen.
    • (Also interesting how Daenerys, who is the only actual queen amongst all of these ladies, is never described that way, probably because she’s a queen in her own right and therefore Scary.)
  • But as Catelyn thinks, Robb needs more than a nice individual by his side. He needs soldiers, and Jeyne’s dowry is pitiful compared to the Freys: she brings dozens of swords with her, whereas the Freys brought thousands
  • If Robb was an ordinary man, heir to nothing, he might be able to follow his heart. But in this regard, his power makes him less free, not more
  • Robb frames it romantically: I took her castle and she took my heart. It’s an appropriate comparison: breaking his marriage pact is an act of war. There are collective responsibilities that he ignored for her sake
  • Of interest too is that Robb’s first salvo is to run a similar game plan with Catelyn as he did with his lords bannermen.
  • He was the romantic, chivalrous lord who fell in love. He grew up listening to the same chivalric romantic stories that Sansa did!
  • The thing is to remember that there’s an audience here when Robb is telling Catelyn the first version of his story.
  • Later, when he and Catelyn are alone, his tune changes, and he reveals the real truth behind why he married Jeyne.
  • So much of what Robb does when he’s in a group setting is do a great job playing image politics.
  • Robb knows that he’s fucked up badly on marrying Jeyne Westerling, but he works hard to get the image politics correct in front of his bannermen.
  • It’s not like individuals don’t matter, of course. As Robb says, he might have been able to smooth things over with Stevron Frey, one of the more reasonable Freys, but he died for Robb at the Battle of Oxcross
  • Robb was left with Stevron’s son Ryman, who is stubborn as a mule and much less intelligent, not to mention Ryman’s son Black Walder, one of the worst Freys, a vicious cutthroat who proposed Robb kill Jeyne in order to free himself up to marry a Frey
  • Robb has a backup plan in mind, offering the Freys marriage pacts with the Umbers and Manderlys. This demonstrates that Robb isn’t a heedless young fool, as Catelyn thinks and the reader might be thinking too
  • Robb thought through how to use his systemic power to make up for what he did, but it again runs aground on individuals, namely Walder Frey
  • Catelyn points out that Walder isn’t going to be any more reasonable than Ryman or Black Walder. He’s prickly and proud, and Robb has insulted that pride, not only by breaking his vow, but by doing so with an older house. The older houses have always looked down on the Freys...including the Tullys!
  • So much is feeding into this moment: individual personalities and grudges that have lasted generations, the demands of chivalry and the demands of kingship. Even Robb’s decision to marry Jeyne was more than the impulse of a horny teenager. He was motivated by grief and guilt
    • Also--and he wouldn’t say this to Catelyn--but having grown up with Jon, seeing how Jon was treated differently, that may also have impacted his decision to marry Jeyne rather than risk fathering a bastard.
  • Robb slept with Jeyne because he had just learned that his little brothers were dead, murdered by Theon, who had been as close to him as a brother. Sex was his way of keeping their ghosts at bay for a little while
  • In other words, it’s the exact same reason Catelyn freed Jaime: trying to find something to live for as the walls closed in around her. Mother and son both got in bed with the enemy--Robb just did so literally!
  • They’re two halves of a whole, flipsides of the same coin; only put together do they spell certain doom. Catelyn thinks Robb is behaving like a child, but she doesn’t reckon with how she might’ve influenced his decision
  • Where did Robb get the idea that marrying Jeyne was the only honorable course? From Catelyn, of course. She’s the one who made clear to her children that there was nothing worse than fathering a bastard, because it hurt her so much that Ned brought Jon home to raise as his own son
    • I love that Catelyn doesn’t actually acknowledge this in her narration, but we as the reader can see it perfectly. Kudos to George for that.
  • Now that has backfired. It all goes back and back, as Tyrion says, to our parents and those before them. You can’t unravel these tangled webs
  • Of all these signifiers of doom, probably the most potent is Grey Wind’s absence. As Catelyn says: the wolf is Robb and Robb is the wolf
  • That the Westerlings fear Grey Wind, that they have in a sense replaced him, sends chills down Catelyn’s spine. Like her, the wolf senses death just around the corner, knowing that Robb’s in-laws aren’t part of the pack
  • Robb insists on being rational. Grey Wind has killed many men, it’s natural to fear him. Should he really run his kingdom on the basis of how people smell to his wolf?
  • But there’s something deeper at work with Robb’s rejection of his other half. Catelyn says the gods sent the wolves to protect her children
  • Robb says he agreed...until they told him Bran and Rickon are dead. Their wolves didn’t protect them, and so Grey Wind won’t protect him
  • This is so heartbreaking because the reader knows that Bran and Rickon aren’t dead at all, and that their wolves did protect them by laying a false trail for Theon. If Robb knew that, he might keep Grey Wind with him
  • But then again, if Robb knew that, he wouldn’t have slept with and then married Jeyne in the first place. If it was known that Bran and Rickon survived, that might prevent Robb’s death--he’d have male heirs, and he wouldn’t be in as much of a hurry to get back to the North
  • Incomplete information is essential to tragedy, as people act on what they think they know, finding out the truth too late (if ever). Robb knows just enough to get him killed, and Catelyn knows just enough to sense it
    • There is so much of this in ASOS. It’s interesting how ACOK gives us the many ways that information travels, and how much the plotlines in those books hinge on the correct information reaching the correct sources (e.g. Tywin and the Tyrells arriving just in time to win the battle of the Blackwater), while ASOS is about withholding vital information until it’s too late.
  • Neither of them knows enough to stop it, so in spite of their choices, their downfall feels like a runaway train. They’re just along for the ride
• Family meeting
  • So then the characters stop fighting about what Robb did and start fighting about what Edmure did. We’re going to talk about the strategy implications and who did what wrong in our Patreon episode this month
  • Here, I want to focus on the character dynamics and the overall sense of doom, both proceeding naturally from the previous scene
  • Edmure’s the only one bragging in this chapter. Robb, Catelyn, and even Hoster are all stricken by what they’ve done; Edmure’s on top of the world
    • Read the room, Edmure. (To be fair, Edmure is not the best at that in general.)
  • So you just know he’s headed for a smackdown, and indeed, Robb and the Blackfish proceed to fillet Edmure like the fish on his banner
  • When Catelyn first came into the Great Hall, Robb was in the middle of praising Edmure for his valiance at the Battle of the Fords
  • Now the Blackfish says that was “a mummer’s farce,” exactly as Catelyn described how Robb revealed the news of his marriage to her
  • Robb has gotten very good at the public performance of power...but only because the private realities are so bleak he has to spin them
  • Edmure, meanwhile, is totally lost in the performance. He thinks they’re only mad at him because they want all the victories, all the glory
  • I bloodied Lord Tywin’s nose, he insists. I won the battle, that’s all that matters! I proved myself to my father!
  • Edmure thinks Robb and the Blackfish stayed in the Westerlands so long for plunder, because that’s how he’s thinking about war: as a shiny object
  • Edmure tried to grasp a star, overreached, and fell. In the process of trying to be the hero and save the day, he inadvertently contributed to their doom
  • To be fair to Edmure, when Brynden starts challenging Edmure, his first reaction is to talk about the men who died on the fords.
    • Good men died to defend those fords, Uncle.
    • Because if he admits he was wrong, those men died for nothing.
  • I think this is where Robb and Brynden let the mask slip about their real thoughts about Edmure.
  • So far, Robb has done a great job of praising in public and criticizing in private -- really taking after his mom in that who doesn’t criticize Robb until they’re ascending the staircase and alone.
  • However, this Brynden-Robb-eventually Catelyn berating of Edmure gets under Edmure’s skin quickly.
  • As much as this is a private setting between relatives, we have to consider the power dynamics at work, because these three individuals about to tear Edmure a new one are the only people who intimidate Edmure.
  • Robb was Edmure’s king first, and while he was young, he was also the guy who beat Jaime Lannister where Edmure failed. He had won every battle so far.
  • Brynden, despite being down the line of succession, plays an authority role over Edmure given his age and his exploits.
  • Catelyn was the heir to Riverrun for many years and was Hoster’s favorite child until the end.
  • The point is that Edmure gets awful defensive, because he’s being criticized by people who make him feel insecure, and he feels like he’s being scolded by his betters.
  • As a result, Edmure comes off here sounding peevish, boyish. He just wants someone to tell him “good job, bro/nephew/uncle” and mean it -- a version of Tyrion’s attempts to get his family to love him.
  • It also explains why Edmure chooses the company of vassal heirs as friends and is described as a womanizer -- he’s seeking the love from people who can’t sincerely criticize him given their subservient roles in Westerosi feudalism or from tavern wenches and sex workers that he didn’t get from his family.
  • Catelyn picks up that Edmure sounds outraged. Catelyn knows her brother all too well. She knows what’s really going into the emotional defense of his actions.
    • Not to keep going back to this well, but again, the contrast with Tywin and Tyrion is so interesting. Edmure, depending on how you look at it (and I’ll let you and Emmett argue about that), made a larger error than Tyrion did, but gets off much lighter because his family, while problematic in its own way, is not the toxic trash fire that is House Lannister.
  • And Catelyn is proved immediately correct when Edmure lunges for a second much less defensible line of defense:
    • What is no one to win battles but the young wolf?
  • Edmure’s sin is pride. He wants and desires glory.
  • But the reason why he desires that glory is because of what he told Catelyn when he set off for the fords back in ACOK:
    • Tell father I have gone to make him proud.
  • There’s a lot of focus on the mega-tragedy of the Stark cause, but I think if we look at the mini-tragedies leading up to the mega-tragedy, it gives a wider horizon to the narrative dynamic at work.
  • Edmure, desperate to gain his father’s love and affection, led an ill-fated defeat by Jaime back in AGOT, led again to his desire to give battle to Tywin Lannister in ACOK.
  • And now it’s led to disaster for Edmure, for the Starks, for everyone.
  • And he’s still got his head in the clouds! Edmure offers to lead the vanguard in the next battle. As Catelyn thinks, this isn’t about making up for what he did. He’s still chasing glory, despite the revelation of the cost
  • Now we finally get the full story of how the Battle of Blackwater came to be. Edmure delayed Tywin just long enough for the Tyrells to reach him with news that Stannis had taken Storm’s End and was marching on the capital. This is what allowed Tywin and the Tyrells to reach the city in time
  • As with Robb’s marriage, the first time through, all I could do was process the shock of it. I remember the dread settling in my stomach
  • I wasn’t wise enough to spot all the Red Wedding foreshadowing, but I could still tell that Robb was in deep deep trouble
  • On reread, I love how there’s not just one cause for Robb’s downfall. All these pieces had to be in place. They came so close to victory in ACOK!
  • As Robb says, Stannis might have rid them of the Lannisters; as Catelyn thinks, Robb might’ve married Margaery instead of Jeyne
  • These happy AUs pass them by like ships in the night. They’re stuck in a world where they all screwed up. Edmure contributed to a Lannister victory; Catelyn gave away their only way to sue for peace; Robb alienated the Freys, when they need their help to get to the North
  • But even as George draws our attention to the Freys with one hand, he distracts us with the other, positioning the Freys as nothing more than a literal bridge back home to fight the real enemy: the Ironborn
    • We’ve all been trained to dismiss/disregard the Freys. The reader does this too, on the first time round. They’re just glorified toll collectors, after all.
    • But that is the source of Lord Walder’s grievance, and he’s going to use that (relative) invisibility to orchestrate the most spectacular betrayal of all. (Sure, we all know Tywin and Roose were equally responsible, but the Red Wedding is expertly pinned on the Freys.)
  • Catelyn tells Robb that Theon has to come first, because the loss of his home and his brothers is an existential challenge to his authority
  • We’ll see evidence of that in her very next chapter, when Rickard Karstark calls Robb “the King who lost the North”
  • Once again, incomplete information is what makes this possible. We know that Bran and Rickon are alive, that Theon has already fallen, and that Winterfell has been sacked not by the Ironborn, but by Ramsay
  • It’s powerful dramatic irony; we want to reach into the page and tell them the truth, a feeling that will only increase when Lame Lothar shows up to deliver a highly selective interpretation of the news from the North
  • But there’s also a lot we don’t know. We don’t know that Roose has made a deal with Tywin, and we don’t know that there is nothing Robb can do now to win the Freys back. By the end of the chapter, his doom is sealed
  • More than anything, the end of the chapter resembles a small council scene with various people bringing pieces of information together and debating how to proceed with the information.
  • A lot of the debate centers over what now … brown … cow? Is that how that goes?
  • Robb is trying to reach an informed decision on what he needs to do next, and he’s faced with two bad choices.
  • Bad choice #1 is to stay in the Riverlands and prepare for the oncoming Lannisters and Tyrells who will be moving forward after Joffrey’s wedding to Margaery.
  • This seems a poor choice on initial blush given that Robb will need to face overwhelming odds, but there are some military advantages of staying put in the Riverlands.
  • First, the Stark-Tully forces hold all of the key terrain in the Riverlands. Edmure Tully’s men hold the fords, Roose Bolton has Harrenhal, and Robb isn’t facing any organized threat from the west presently.
  • So, any attack by an overwhelming force could be mitigated by concentrating forces on key terrain -- the fords like Edmure did as well as Harrenhal.
  • More than that, staying in the Riverlands keeps the river lords loyal to Robb and willing to hold the line with the northmen.
  • But those are military advantages. There are severe political disadvantages to staying in the Riverlands.
  • The northmen, as stalwart as many of them seem, have had their own lands attacked by the Ironborn.
  • And while I would argue that there are still enough military-aged northmen in the North proper to retake the North, there are issues of quarreling lords and outright disloyalty and treason.
  • The Manderlys may have the largest land force in the North currently, but those who didn’t die at Winterfell are presently-engaged in fighting the Boltons over Hornwood lands, rather than focusing on the Ironborn threat at Deepwood Motte and Moat Cailin.
  • Most of the real Stark loyalists perished at Winterfell when Ramsay Snow showed up with his host to smash the mostly Cerwyn, Tallhart, Hornwood, Manderly army.
  • For lack of a better term, Ser Rodrik Cassel and Maester Luwin were Robb Stark’s representatives in the North, and without Cassel or Luwin, there is no subordinate who can take the fight to the Ironborn.
  • Add on that the Boltons are active traitors and were the ones who sacked Winterfell, and there is a desperate need for a unifying political/military figure in command: Robb Stark.
  • That means that Robb himself has to get to the North to throw the Ironborn back into the sea and confront Ramsay (at the very least) for his treason.
  • If Robb doesn’t go back north, he’ll face eventual mutiny from his northern bannermen.
  • So, bad choice #2 is to move his army back to the North and retake his homeland from the Ironborn.
  • As Catelyn says, this is the only choice as Robb needs to retake his homeland, or he’ll lose legitimacy as a king before his lords.
  • Militarily-speaking, there is a lot of danger in trying to get back to the North that we’ll cover in future Catelyn chapters.
  • But in an AU where Robb successfully gets into the North, he probably is able to repel the remaining Ironmen that Victarion and Asha left in the North after Balon’s death.
  • Moreover, GRRM was once asked whether an independent northern/riverlands kingdom would have survived if there was no Red Wedding, and he said:
    • The north, perhaps. The riverlands are more problematic. With no real natural boundaries, the riverlands are vulnerable to attack from all sides, which is why their history has been so full of blood and tumult.
  • That answer provides a major downfall to this strategy: the Riverlands are - to use a political-science term - royally fucked.
  • Edmure was just barely able to hold out against the Lannisters on the Fords when it was merely the Lannisters making the attempt on the fords.
  • Factor in the Tyrells, and Edmure is outnumbered something like ten to one in trying to hold out, and the hold them at the fords strategy probably wouldn’t have worked.
  • Just musing here: the only real way this thing would have worked is if Edmure pulled all his forces back into the castles of Harrenhal and Riverrun, grabbed up as much of the produce as possible, kicked out the smallfolk in Brynden Tully in AFFC fashion and waited for Robb to march back down the causeway to rescue them -- basically a redux of what happened when Robb came south in AGOT.
  • That would have extraordinarily cruel though for the Riverlands smallfolk given that they just went through the Lannisters raping, murdering and pillaging their way through their territory not too long ago and would probably receive a second batch of that horror. But that’s the only way the strategy works.
  • Ultimately though, events in the story itself would have played themselves out. The Lannisters and Tyrells would have come to blows with each other, the Sparrows would rise, the Golden Company would arrive, the Dornish would take a side against the Lannisters.
  • When you consider the broad scope of macro political events that occurred outside of the control of Robb, Edmure and Catelyn, the problems from the south would have mostly resolved themselves.
  • That’s entirely a presentist lens to view the story, but it does make you think and consider that the rush to get north quickly was predicated on trying to outrun the Lannisters-Tyrells when events in the story would overcome them.
  • So, from a macro political level, there’s a political tragedy to the whole thing.
  • That macro political tragedy seems small though when it’s compared to the smaller-scale character tragedy about to befall the Starks and Tullys.
  • When talking about tragedy, we tend to talk Shakespeare and the Greeks: Hamlet, Oedipus, Macbeth, Medea, etc. But in terms of more modern tragedy, one solid reference point is Chinua Achebe’s Things Fall Apart
  • You can find a lot of parallels between that great novel and ASOIAF. The protagonist Okonkwo is determined to erase the legacy of his father, who he considered weak and shameful, much like Tywin; he later kills his foster son, taken in from an enemy tribe, similar to Theon at Winterfell
  • In the story, even as he strives to be the ideal man by the standards of his culture and society, that culture and society are transformed
  • Things Fall Apart is rooted in the context of colonialism, as Nigeria is overtaken by both political authorities and religious missionaries
  • There’s no such social context here, but for me, the emotions resonate the same: Robb’s been racing to keep up with his image, and even as he fully and finally embodies it, that image is made irrelevant by a changing world
    • Now he has won our brothers, and our clan can no longer act like one. He has put a knife on the things that held us together, and we have fallen apart.

Foreshadowing/Groundwork

Lord Karstark’s rage will pay off in the next Catelyn chapter, when he kills the teenage captives Tion Frey and Willem Lannister in their beds.

Catelyn notes that Jeyne has child-bearing hips, but unfortunately, Sybell will not allow her daughter to become pregnant.

Catelyn mentions that Hoster once refused to marry Edmure to one of Walder Frey’s daughters...which ends up being the cover story for the Red Wedding.

Robb reminds Catelyn that there were six wolf pups, not five, and one was for Jon. It’s not the last time Jon is a point of contention between them--later in the book, Robb will name Jon as his heir, over Catelyn’s objections.

Theory/Discussion

Here’s one for Jeff--if Edmure had followed Robb’s orders and stayed in Riverrun, do you think Robb’s plan would have worked? Would Tywin have taken the bait and stayed in the westerlands, thus allowing Stannis to take King’s Landing? And under those circumstances, what might the Tyrells have done?

Conclusion

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