Home
Creators
Search Recent Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Register Favorites Keys Review DMs Logout
Community
Telegram ThePornDude
Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

.Attack. .On. .Titan. 4x20-21 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-05-20 06:16:07
Edited:
2025-05-27 14:51:56
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Videos

  • 469800106.mp4

Downloads

Content

On your feet dad

Files

Comments

Rico

First

Brady

PEAK

6

fourth?.

xk-class

peak fiction is here

Kiyoh

streets were ready

Melizé

OMG YOU'RE BACK! 🔥🔥🔥

cozo

its here

Jordan Mowrer

bruh I got work in the mornin why you gotta drop peak rn

GB3

Making us wait for these episodes of all episodes is absolutely diabolical 🥀

Malcolm

My glorious goats thank you and my fault for pressing earlier

BROCODEDUDE

The world was waiting for this. 🔥

Brady

I don't see LeBron?

BROCODEDUDE

It was their mother’s birthday.

Jack Reuter

Never clicked so fast ever

TheBookerDeWitt

I wish Carter's future self had pressured him into uploading this sooner

kuza

REAL PEAK IS HERE

BROCODEDUDE

Looking forward to watching it!

val

I completely forgot that today was Monday

Sean Carroll

THE ABSOLUTE PEAKKKKKKKKK GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD

studiogek

I wish future Carter somehow told of the issues he would run into on this day😭

Jean Racaillou

Come back on the couch Brig, this is the story you started …

mel

Why ru doing ts to me when I’m omw To school 💔💔💔🥀🥀😭😭

TheBookerDeWitt

My goat... Back for his favorite episode

Conk

W

Ladnon

ARRIVAL

Ibraheem

Absolute cinema

indy

LETS FRICKEN GO

rainbow

I WAS SO SCARED THAT THE FOOTAGE WAS LOST 😭😭

6

Discussion was super short, to put it nicely.

Ollie

Lesgooo

Ollie

Sleep, king, and catch up tomorrow

GreetswithJudgement

The folks waiting for these episodes were stuck in the paths. These reactions are everything. The Gek boys bracing themselves for peak once again.

6

...

Matthew Valentine

Faze Gabi headshotted Eren and was like "why isnt his health bar going away”

Lemonmk

To go into detail of what happened in Ep 20 (for anyone who doesnt understand): The Attack Titan is able to passively see both its past and future holder's memories (whereas the other 8 titans could only see the past inheritors), which means they are able to see future events chosen by the future inheritors yet to come. ***These Memories can be viewed, but not interacted with*** (This is important for later). For example: In S3 Ep21, Remember when Eren Kruger told Grisha to "Save Mikasa, Armin....", he received memories of Grisha saying those exact same lines to Eren in the future. So with the Attack Titans power to see future memories & the Founding Titans power to Trancend time, Eren and Zeke are able to traverse the events of Erens life. The Big 2 Questions people are proably wondering after watching the ep is: 1. How is Eren able to Interact with the past if the memories can only be viewed? 2. How is Grisha able to see Zeke? 1. Eren is able to interact with the past due to 3 things: The Attack Titan, The Founding Titan, and Contact with a titan of Royal Blood Due to Zeke not being influenced by the Vow Renouncing War, he is able to allow them to experience Grisha's past memories without limitations. They are able to see Grisha's life through a one way mirror, and interaction between the two would be impossible... HOWEVER Since Eren has the Attack Titan (which can see forward in time), Grisha (who at the time had the Attack Titan) can use this to see Eren's recollection of the same event that he's currently experiencing in real time (Its confusing I know) Which means, whenever Grisha sees Erens future memories, he is seeing a future memory from Eren's perspective, seeing out of his eyes and hearing his words. This means he is seeing himself in a 3rd Person POV. Whenever Grisha talks, the response is part of the memory that Eren & Zeke is currently viewing, allowing interaction between the two. 2. Since Grisha is seeing himself in a 3rd Person POV, he is able to see Zeke through Eren's Eyes, which is why everytime he sees Zeke, he is standing behind him. In short, Eren has basically orchestrated everything up until now, and that everything that happened before was fated to happen.

GreetswithJudgement

Thirteen people pointing at Ymir condemning her because that is the reason she died, in every way. Which is why titan shifters are condemned to thirteen years of life. The curse of Ymir.

Alex P

We have finally arrived at this view

Blackops3212

Are they watching the last attack movie or the 2 specials 🤔

jemmy

I look forward to Carter tweaking in this rewatch than anything lmaooo 🤣

Gestrid

Eren really just said: @everyone

Rebecca

at 13:20, i love how mckay automatically starts cheesing while the girls are all locked in

TTB

For the people that are confused on why Grisha could've not given the founding and attack titan to eren is very simple it's because the future already happened if grisha didnt give the founding and attack to eren, eren would've still in some shape or form gotten the founding titna its an inevitable thing, thats why this plot twist is regarded as one of the best is because it recontextualizes everything in the show the Aot series itself is the reuslt of eren action from the founding titan power and attack titan. That what makes a plot twist good and not just some random shock value is because it gives context to multiple foreshadowings and plot points that one of the few ingredients in creating and executing a plot twist so if a plot twist is somewhat predictable like reiner and berthodlt reveal it doesn't matter it's still an amazing plot twist.

Gestrid

I thought I would have to wait ten years at least for us to get to this point.

GreetswithJudgement

Erens eyes rolling back to life lives rent free in my head!

James Wilson

You guys should watch the scene where Grisha comes out of the hideout in dub. Solid voice acting.

Gestrid

Eren is who he's always been: someone who will take the freedom of those who would take his and his friends' freedom. Someone who stole the freedom of three people who were trying to steal Mikasa's freedom back when they first met.

kuza

literally nothing more insane than these eps

Ladnon

On both your watches Brig has said the same thing about Rod Reiss surviving, and I still can't tell if he is intentionally trying to have you guys lock in on Grisha letting him survive or if he genuinely hasn't picked it up

MsGypsophila

Rewatching AOT multiple times puts you to Eren's POV and dilemma. You watch it, you see things from both sides of the story, and then you'll see every one of the characters you love d!e. Of course, you'll look into the possibilities and what if's but ends up in the same way because just like Eren you can't change anything.

Conk

I could name things more insane

ahmad

Man those episodes flew by... So damn good

Gestrid

"Why did his health bar refill?"

Juanpa_20

Nah when the camera cuts to him while his dad is screaming about to kill the rice family he literally looks like a demon😭

Andrei Canlapan

Eren should've been the son Grisha had when he was in marley and Zeke when he was in paradis

kuza

man that post discussion was too short for what those episodes were 😭😭😭😭

kuza

nbdy cares

Juanpa_20

I get that but it’s weird how grisha pleads with zeke and tell him to stop eren but then moments later grisha gives eren both of the titans that’s the only thing that kinda confuses me idk if it’s a plot hole or im missing something

hman70

Early in this series watching the girls go through as first timers was the highlight but recently seeing specifically Cannon & Carter react to these scenes for the second time has been just as good, Cannon’s face of horror during the climax of 4x20 was like he was watching it for the first time lol And I’m sure the ladies would have been able to sus out Eren’s true motivations if they were given enough time to cook, but through no fault y’all had to binge to fit in the whole crew’s schedules. But they definitely would have cooked up the answer with more time in the oven

1999

I feel guilty watching this. A couple years back I was supposed to send my cousin a streaming site for her to watch the last season. I didn’t know that my text message with the link never went through and she ended up getting the ending spoiled before she could watch it. 💀 She still hasn’t watched season 4 till this day cuz she thinks it’s pointless 😭

indy

ganondorf moment

Juanpa_20

Meanwhile Eren on episode 25 of season 1 “I’m going to destroy the whole world” 🫣

TTB

It’s not a plot hole since grisha can’t do anything to stop Eren but grisha also learned that the walls were attacked and Carla died so that reminded him of the hatred towards Marley it’s not a plot hole since it makes sense why imo.

Noah

We've been waiting, all this time.....

GreetswithJudgement

Ymir’s eyes finally showing and Erens dead eyes rolling back to life just to awaken more cruelty and more horror displayed in every subject witnessing this. Green eyes in anime usually represent determination and willpower and when the founding titans eyes flash green you can feel that shit. All that rage that never left him finally on full display for the entire world to see. It’s sad and beautiful. Horrifying and true. This show just takes my freaking breath away. And the way the founding titan is built like a cage, and structured to only move forward. And with Footsteps of Doom playing in the back! So much epicness.

Nash (edited)

Comment edits

2026-10-07 09:00 Eren and Grisha’s VA 😮‍💨😮‍💨
2025-05-20 07:26

Gestrid

It's important to note, however, that Grisha cannot pick and choose which memories he sees. Rather, future inheritors of the Attack Titan pick and choose which memories of the future the Attack TItan's past inheritors can see. So Eren sent back *specific* memories to Grisha, including the one where Grisha kills the Royal Family. When Eren kissed Historia's hand at the end of season 3, he saw his dad's *past* memory of Eren sending his future memory back to Grisha of that moment. (It's a weird "chicken and the egg" moment.) So Season 3 Eren saw his future self through his dad's past memories telling his dad to kill the Royal Family.

indy

honestly thought there would be a mad discussion at the end, i sense that the girls don't say things unless what they're saying feels right and they want to watch more so they can know the answers. i feel like part of the fun is hearing the wild things everyone has to say about it and their opinions. At the same time they all seem at a loss for words so no hate or anything, as they said they need time to process. hoping there's a good discussion at the end :')

GreetswithJudgement

Carter and Cannons reactions validate just how amazing this show is for me.

Juanpa_20

He’s one of those dark souls bosses that got three phases before he dies😭

Lemonmk

mhm Eren pretty much sent memories to fuel his own agenda, therefore everything Grisha did, from obtaining the Founding Titan to giving Eren the titans, was influenced by Eren alone

Gestrid

I would argue the finale is pretty insane. Also, there's a game called 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim that's also pretty insane.

Ukaede

The look of distraught on the girls is legit everyone when they watched the first show...Just peak confusion and for the rewatchers it's just the best moment of our lives 😭🤌

jemmy

Yeah, I was anticipating a lengthy discussion but it's all good.

Nami Swannn

Honestly understandable why the post-episode discussion was so short, these two episodes are A LOT to take in 😭

Gestrid

Yep. See: Season 3 Episode 11. He doesn't tell Eren to come with him until after he learns that Carla was killed by a Titan after a piece of the gate from the wall fell on their house.

Juanca

AOT, my goat 🐐!

jemmy

I am still on team Eren lmaoo. Also I disagree about Eren's character doing a massive leap because Eren has been consistent since day 1 about eliminating his enemies. He hasn't changed and his motivations remained the same—charging forth at his enemies. The only thing that changed was the face of his enemies.

Ollie

The freaking basement man. I love the flashback from when Eren was little.

ruthyrooo

Honestly I had the most fun watching Carter and Canon this time around. We need to get 19:20 framed.

Higgy8

No, I'm pretty sure that shifters live 13 years because that's how long Ymir lived after gaining titan abilities. Although the pointing is probably just a neat easter egg

Nami Swannn

I see where they’re coming from just because you don’t get to experience this latter half of the story from Eren’s POV and this is really one of the first times you see what’s going on inside his head. Before this, all you could do was make theories about it, so understandable that it can come off as super shocking and confusing as to how we ended up here if you were on a totally different train of thought. It’s true Eren’s always been the same in the sense that he was always advancing, just not this cruelly. His character has definitely undergone many changes.

Juanpa_20

Oh ok that makes sense , don’t get me wrong pretty good plot twist flips the script on its head but I feel like if they emphasize on grishas plea for zeke to stop eren it would make more sense

Justin ⟢

Willy Tybur in 4x5: “Consider this… A DECLARATION OF WAR” Eren in 4x21: “Hold my beer”

Juanpa_20

When he clearly rushes through all the memories until they reach the one with him giving his scarf to mikasa killed me ngl, mans looked defeated 😕

Safaricat

i've said it many times, but i'm with Eren..... Zeke's plan doesn't do anything. Marley has already used the titan power to crush other nations just like Onyakopon's home country. Even with Paradis gone they'll find someone knew to bully. Zeke was willing to sacrifice his race, so proud of his royal blood. fuck the world.

Nami Swannn

Eve still holding out hope for Eren is the average AOT experience after these two episodes aired 😭

jalen

fire as always. super grateful that you guys are so dedicated with sharing your reaction with us!

Juanpa_20

In the same sentence Willys the first casualty of the war he declared 😭🤣

Ollie

It's crazy to think that Grisha tried to first convince the royal family to save the population of Paradis. Shows he's not a terrible guy. Also Carter's looks at the camera during the buildup loool.

GreetswithJudgement

Sorry should have made myself more clear. It’s still symbolic to her death, the image of thirteen people pointing at her is a symbol representing the 13-year life limit of the shifters which is linked to the Curse of Ymir, where those who inherit the Titan powers are cursed to die after 13 years because she died after thirteen years of gaining her abilities. It’s a symbol of her curse.

Nami Swannn

Lots of ‘Eren was right ´comments and I feel like the message of keeping the kids out of the forest went completely over your heads. We’re told and shown early on that « humanity will never stop fighting itself until it shrinks to a size of one or fewer ». Eren could wipe out the whole world and Paradis still won’t be safe from war and conflict. The titan curse would still exist so Paradis would just become the place of a new Great Titan Civil War since they would be the only ones capable of inheriting the Titans, and Paradisians would just end up sacrificing their own children in order to keep the power of the titans, so the children wouldn't leave the forest. Conflict is part of human nature, but so is cooperation. In order for the children to leave the forest we (the adults from everywhere) need to work together to help children from all places to leave the forest.

hman70

Isayama’s decision to make every character in the flashback eyeless/shadowed eyes only for Ymir’s to become visible when Eren’s words truly reach her and she begins to see herself as a human with her own will. Masterful. A moment that I didn’t believe could be improved until I saw it the first time with Footsteps of Doom’s solo drums. Haunting, a perfect moment in a show filled with them

Nami Swannn

Don’t get me wrong I love Eren but when ppl genuinely believe the rumbling (or even Zeke’s plan) was THE solution you lose me a little bit..😭

TTB

Fun fact the hallucigenia is only able to “move forward” and Eren’s founding titan looks like an hallucigenia as well and since the rumbling is only moving forward with a limited amount of movements ties to it as well, cool symbolism/detail.

GreetswithJudgement

A perfect OST for a perfect moment. The only other moment that rivals this for me is coming up in the final chapters. In fact I find it quite hard to beat as far my favorite/moment goes.

Ukaede

Brig is doing the best he can on throwing out some clues, or perhaps questions unanswered for the girls just "in case" they didn't pick up on that cause we know for a fact there is so much to take in such short amount of time

GreetswithJudgement

“One day we’ll break it down. The wall hiding the truth…will fall.”- Erwin Smith

jemmy

That makes total sense. But also from the first three seasons and how feral he was with his rage and all especially towards Reiner and Bertolt, his decision here was still in character without his perspective at the end. The cruelty just seem extreme because the enemies now are humans not titans.

jemmy

Not to mention that Zeke's plan is the same as Eren's, just silent and targeted towards Eldians

Terry C

A good explanation is to let them know that when Grisha was seeing Zeke, Eren's line of sight was facing towards Zeke everytime, and he was allowing Grisha to tap into his memories, thus allowing him to see Zeke as well.

GreetswithJudgement

Yep. Eren was doing Eren things the whole show. He’s never changed.

Nami Swannn

We’ve def seen his fair share of rage moment 😭 but we’ve also seen many of him being genuinely compassionate to both his friends and enemies, especially this season alone, such as his understanding for Reiner. He’s grown from how he once was and can see from different perspectives of the world. After all that, it makes total sense to believe he has a greater plan that’s not only rage fuelled full speed ahead on mass genocide

Saki 🏴‍☠️✨❤️‍🔥

Oh nooo, but it's so nottt 😫 I can totally understand how knowing the outcome could impact it, but at the same time I've always been of the mind that knowing and experiencing are two different thingsss

Safaricat

i know. i got choked up again seeing her story. it took someone not of royal blood to see her for who she is a young girl who is hurting.

Safaricat

i love the parallels to founder Ymir and Ymir we knew. She was a child and all the adults blamed her for the pig escaping and pointed fingers at her, and the Ymir we met who was named after the founder had the same thing happen to her when they were going to get in trouble they all pointed the blame at her. She also talked about how she was wandering for what felt like centuries before turning into a human again and Ymir has been trapped there in the paths for years unable have freedom even after death.

Gestrid

I'd argue that their plans are polar opposites. Zeke's plan is silent, targeted towards Eldians, and will take years to come to fruition. Eren's plan is loud (both physically and metaphorically), targeted towards everyone outside Paradis (the Eldians outside Paradis are just a casualty and not the intended target), and is an immediate solution that takes a few days to come to fruition.

Charybdis

This is what peak looks like

Xala04

Grisha is crazy because at the end of the episode he was horrified by Eren, but when he arrived and saw that Marley had killed his wife and destroyed his house, he decided to give Eren the Founding Titan anyway. In that sense, Eren and Grisha share that same radical and violent behavior, although in Grisha's case it only shows when triggered by a situation or when he's reminded of his past suffering.

Kade

I like that Ymir's titan had no tongue, to match hers being removed. Also 13 hands pointed her out about the pig, and she only lived 13 more years after. Also, that moment where Eren lingers on the memory of giving Mikasa the scarf speaks a lot of truth that he's otherwise hiding.

Saki 🏴‍☠️✨❤️‍🔥

@safaricat no fr - like the way she was just used and abused in life, sacrificed herself for her abuser, was butchered to be made use of in death, AND then left to wander the paths alone for thousands of years still in service of others,,horrible 😭😭😭

Saki 🏴‍☠️✨❤️‍🔥

@safaricat sooo many parallels, and our ymir had just wanted freedom and love as well, but was still 'a slave to something' (her own heart 😔)

Thelcia

Only two ep?

Sean Carroll

Nah grishas dub voice is definitely nowhere near to his sub voice, I don’t actually like the way they did grishas voice in this episode in the dub

Ollie

"On your feet, Carter"

rayman

nah but “fuck the world” means fuck Onyakopon’s home country too and every other innocent man, woman, child, animal on the planet that has nothing to do with any of this. It should be “fuck Marley and the titan powers” not fuck the actual entire world. Siding with Eren is insane and always will be insane to me. with Titans gone in Zeke’s plan it at least levels the playing field in the world so Marley has to play ball like the other country and can’t use titan powers and Eldians anymore. not on Zeke’s side but it’s definitely the lesser of the two evils

Ollie

Love and happiness almost within his grasp

NMP

2 AM uploads my time lol

Dwob

KEEP EM COMING

Matěj Kačmář

Bro Eren was able to see all possible future's. It literally was the only way to save his friends. Was it right? No. Would I do it if I, just like Eren, had no idea outside world existed until I was 17? Im 90%sure I would

Thelcia

I know it’s basically too late and that they’ve already finished the series but y’all basically forget eren has ALWAYS been this way. Before kissing historia’s hand too. It was literally showed in ep 20. Him having this rage- him killing those guys.

fyre

crazy how many layers Eren has, we still haven’t scratched the surface of his character.

Segen

What are they doing

Jeremy

Is Riley okay?

Nami Swannn

No he couldn’t ??😭 Eren's visions, triggered by his kiss to Historia’s hand, was not a full-blown clairvoyance of all possible futures. The Attack Titan lets him foresee events that his future self would experience (and even then, there were many blind spots). The Founding Titan has the ability to influence the past to preserve the history as it had already played out. There’s no way for him to see ALL futures/timelines. When he says stuff like he « tested it out and it was all disappointing», he means he tested moments where he could recognize that he was experiencing one of his future memories, and might have tried to act against them, only for things to turn out exactly as he saw (like saving Ramzi despite knowing he’d kill him in the future). AOT operates on one timeline, as we see when he influences the past he is only doing what has already happened (Grisha stealing the titans, Dina eating his mom). Moreover, since Eren receives memories of the future, it means the future has already happened, or else the memory wouldn't exist. There could have been alternative timelines where his friends were saved another way, but Eren only saw this predetermined future, not the ONLY one that would save his friends. He’s not like Dr.Strange in Inifinty War 😭

Qhoa

W

Shio

you have no idea how much i waited for you guys to react to this episode

Yanis Panagaris

I need to wait the end of the week for 22....... T_T

jrnoodles

Thanks GeksDeluxe! I love these two episodes.

Mohammad Husseini

can you explain the scarf thing more detailed bro? i didn't understand that much😭😭😭

Koro

Any updates about Fate zero ?

Pudding

Ive never heard of anyone before who didn't necessarily like Zeke, but specifically the Beast titan😂 Except Eve

JeanJean

Both the message of the show and reality aren't that simple. Cooperation is often preferrable but not always possible. Basically it reminds us of the prisonner's dilemma. Yes it would be better for everyone to cooperate, the net benefit would be greater and that is the only path to avoid destruction in the long term...But fact is, at any point in time, if someone decides to betray this cooperation, if someone decides to attack the other and break the peace, then the person who started the attack gets more out of it. He also gains the upper hand for future conflict and the person betrayed gets nothing. And this is basically what cancels the possibility of cooperation. The luring threat of betrayal is what makes people betray in the first place. Kill or be killed, if I won't do it then the other will. This is the kind of situation we all get put in not only on a geopolitical scale but in our day to day life too: - Climate change: if one country decides to prioritize growth over ecological consequences, it gains the upper hand. - Communication in a relation: if one of the two starts accusing the other of being something, they gain the upper hand. This is why political debates always devolve into calling each other names, they know they cannot wait until the other one attacks because that would make them look bad. Attack is the best defense. - Violence: anyone can at any time decide to betray the implicit trust between people by attacking them when their back in turned, when they least expect it, doesn't matter how big or strong someone is. And this is also the situation Eldians and the world are quite literally in. Attack on Titan takes that idea and pushes it to it's conclusions. The world cannot trust that any point in time the Eldians won't use their titan power just like they did for such a long time to dominate others, they cannot live with the threat of the rumbling at all times. Even if they knew that Eldians were just normal people, like Eren knows the rest of the world is, they could not allow them to live. Eren also cannot allow the rest of the world to live because he knows he knows this fact too. Yes, even if Eren does the rumbling, he's probably aware it will only bring ruin and that inside of Eldia this process of destruction will not end, but he still sees that the alternative, to be a good person, is for his friends and Eldia to be destroyed. If in order to be a good person you'd have to be a slave like Ymir or die, would you do it? Would you let your family and relatives die unjustly?

DontFailArtSchoolEren

@Nami Swannn If Eren completely wiped out all outside enemies, his predecessors could wipe the memories of everyone and live in blissful ignorance for as long as possible with the gradual advancement of science and medicine. It was only Eren's core principle or belief to not want to deny the free will of his friends to stop him if they chose to do so. The main issue is people will still be born into the world with aspirations and "human nature" which will lead to conflicts and civil wars so Zekes solution was to remove their race of Eldians from this game of suffering through infertility but still able to live and experience the full capacity of happiness in ignorance. Just like humans in the real world know about the possibility and impending global wars, we still continue to create new life to experience this world in hopes of making all of this "worth it", some big enough payoff to offset all the violence and death to get to this "pay off", some Heaven on Earth, free from diseases, wars, racism, wealth inequality...will it happen or will people intentionally give up since "human nature" is always flawed. Its not selfish to give up on humanity at some point instead of continuing this pyramid scheme of suffering treadmill to nowhere by pushing a new life onto it.

DontFailArtSchoolEren

Zeke's noble plan REMOVES any worry, any guilt, any good or bad intentions, any future for Eldians, its salvation from being born into a cycle of violence and oppression. Eren wants to STAY in this cycle of violence and oppression and be the oppressor but he has no guarantees that Eldians will stay at the top or any kingdom or race of people in history. Zeke and Eren are both making this extreme choice without the regard or care of what the other Eldians think because in that moment they are playing God, the ultimate authority on whats right to them. In the end Zekes plan would save billions of lives from Erens bloodshed and save many generations from the fear of Marley and the rest of the world coming back for revenge.

Safaricat

it's not just fuck marley though because the whole world even Onyakopon's countrymen think of the Eldians as devils. the whole world is in agreement to commit genocide. So yeah. fuck the world. there are innocent people on Paradis too but the whole world seemed to make an easy decision with out even talking or meeting them. why do they get to choose what race of people live and die, get rid of all of them. There's no coming back from this, what country will be next after Paradis? Zeke's plan is terrible. castrating a race of people so they can't reproduce, only to die out and be forgotten. plus Marley and everyone else would never believe it with out evidence, they'd never trust Zeke's word after this so all the Eldians would still be killed. crush the world. humanity can't come back after either decision because there will always be another person, another country, another race, another genocide, another war. It will never end.

Zipzzty

ON YOUR FEET DAD

Pudding

Eren has always been the same, haha. He just went from swearing to kill all titans, to humans now😭 But it's the same rage. It's even more crazy on a rewatch cause you got moments in season 1 where Eren says "I'll kill them all!!" and....yeah. He really did. Just switched his target a little.

Ryker

i care

JeanJean

It's normal to feel there's a leap because you'd think the story was plot twisting you into thinking Eren was good based on previous reveals and that it was gonna continue developping into that direction with Zeke being the bad one, but the seeds were there. The show double plot twisted us basically. Zeke's way felt very wrong, Eren's way feels worse. Both because they leave terrible consequences, but also because they contain a truth to them you cannot deny. If you take everything that's happened, the means Eren employed, it was heavily hinted that Eren found himself in a complicated situation where despite still being able to distinguish good from evil and being wiser about the world, he was still a tortured soul. This reveal finally answers all of that. He literally said it in the beginning of S4 in his discussion with Reiner, just like Berthold did in the end of S3. He doesn't have any choice. Now that we know it isn't about right or wrong, we're left with the fact it's about killing or being killed. What we're seeing now basically is the natural evolution of Eren's "good" nature, the good he fought for over the course of the whole show. We rooted for him, we liked him back then, so why aren't we liking him now? Is he really evil? Isn't this what we wanted him to do, to win definitively? What alternative would leave for a good ending, not only for Eldians but for the show and the audience itself? What's also subtly being implied in the show is that, when you gain wisdom and you realize the violence you are exerting is not founded upon morally legitimate grounds, when you aren't able to scapegoat anyone into being a monster you have to kill, then the violence you're using becomes even worse, both in how you experience it but also in it's intensity, scope and the consequences it leaves you with. "Wise violence" makes it so that the destruction cannot be limited to a single person or a single group anymore (Titans in the beginning of the show, or Eldians for the world) but it destroys everything, because you realize you are not doing things for the greater good anymore, attacking pure evil that spawned out of thin air, but for yourself and against people who are your mirror reflection, and that as long as other live you'll have competition, you'll be strangled in conflict and fearing for your life and those of your closed ones because of equals that seek the same as you. Knowing others are not different but equals does not solve violence, it makes it worse. Not being able to dehumanize the other makes violence more destructive. Violence becomes worse when you realize it's nature. This is why the devil in religion is known to be a wise creature, knowing what you're doing and still acting upon it makes them worse in every way. It's obviously also why Eren looks as devilish as he does now, and why he has been looking more evil in his titan form in S4 when you compare it to the first seasons.

Pudding

This is more like 4 episodes for me, 2 where I focus on the girls' reactions, and 2 on the guys, heh. I'm gonna be replaying scenes lots from now on lol

Pudding

Also I really like the vibe they went for to describe Ymir's backstory. All colors are grayish and all characters are 'missing' eyes. Really contributed to making it look depressing, which it really was.

Pham Hung

Yelena literally exists in the show lol pretty sure she doesn’t have the hots for Zeke or anything. Just big Monke

Pham Hung

Eren is such a menace. He purposely left out the memory of Carla getting eaten so Grisha finds out himself when talking with kid Eren. I think at that moment all the rage, anger came back.

chaosmerchant

When Eren is talking to Ymir and reminding her she has a choice - he saw her for her

studiogek

There is quite literally nothing like this show

eve richards

i love the beast 😩🤩🥰🤠

studiogek

Yeah at this moment it was like 1 am and we had binged a lot and they were just speechless and shook😂 trust me they have a lot to say lol since we finished the show they’ve talked and cried about it a million times

S Moonchild⁷

I just noticed that Eldian King said the same thing to Ymir, that Eren said to Grisha "what are you doing? Get up". Both Ymir and Grisha got into that situation because of their compassion towards someone (Grisha to children, Ymir to King) and both were told to get up and continue fighting by someone they trusted and loved (yes, Ymir loved the king). Rumbling's only explanation from Eren is his hatred to everyone besides his people and thinking there is no other way to save his people. Horrible act derived by hatred, lack of time, confusion because of memory things and thinking that the future is set. Every time you see Grisha wide eyed zoning is him channeling the memories through Eren's eyes seeing himself in the present. It is pretty confusing, cause he is supposed to see future.

Pham Hung

This show is a masterclass in making you question your perception of a character. For the entire 4th season you’re constantly in denial of Eren’s character and a large portion of the fanbase gaslit themselves into thinking he is something different. I get it, Eren’s a dear friend, of course you would want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But if you really think about it, the traumatized child who has always acted on negative emotions gifted godlike powers? What exactly could be his plan? These are the questions you keep in the back of your mind, unable to face the truth that he might burn down the entire world down to feel its warmth.

chaosmerchant

Sounded like it’ll be the two specials

chaosmerchant

Yeah Brig, is this not the story…you started?

studiogek

I think he means we are stretching it out more intentionally lol, which 2 eps is really regular and we’ve done 3 this whole time which is more than anyone else

Hector

Yes Eren has always been this rager and then when you give him the greatest power in world he definitely won't use it to plant flowers

DontFailArtSchoolEren

Eren and Zeke both want to remove titans/titan powers but Zeke wanted to take accountability for his sins and Eldia's sins against the world by removing Eldians from participating in this cycle of violence while Eren doesnt want to take accountability or be "chained" to his ancestors sins and instead wipe out everyone who wants to take away his freedom and the freedoms of the people he loves. Eren wants to stay in the game but has no contingency plan for how things will be handled in the future or civil wars break out etc. It ultimately comes down to which plan has higher probability of working and less amount of deaths required, if you finished the show you know which plan was more efficient. If you knew in hindsight that after X generations a nuclear war will wipe out humanity, you can "save" those X generations right now from wasting time and effort and from being forced to witness and experience such living Hell, its the right thing to do as you have power to, even if you dont truly know, you are aware from a long history of how things really never change for "human nature" and the limited resources on Earth will cause such conflicts as they have done since the begining. Zeke doesnt want to gamble on a future when he can end it now.

Landon

I know these uploads are from a binge a while ago but you guys should definitely watch a video on youtube (the title of which I conveniently do not remember) about why Eren "isn't free". It's got over four million views so its easy to find. You guys might not agree with all of the takes in that video but regardless is has some cool details in it which are easy to miss in the show.

Zu

Grisha’s VA deserves so much praise honestly. He’s always done a good job when he appears in episodes but his voice acting in 4x20 was on another level. Him losing his mind then hugging Zeke and crying after had me choked up fr

LeFlaneur

Eren, the literal apocalypse. Eve: I feel like Eren isn’t too far gone. 😂

Zu

Also the reveal of Eren manipulating the whole story from the start is one of the greatest plot twists in story telling period and I’ll die on that hill

Hector

This show just gets more emotional every time you watch it, Definitely on a league of it own. The ending was good as well, i will never understand the hate.

Hector

Cannon and Carter's hearts rpm must have been through the roof

Hector

I tested my pressure levels after this episode it was simply to much

DontFailArtSchoolEren

Ymir's village was invaded by King Fritz army, she experienced terror, horror, shock, trauma, her family, her friends, everyone she felt compassion and love from are gone or betrayed her from her backstory. Most people agree that Ymir has Stockholm syndrome and is a coping mechanism to survive and lash out on their enemies, its not love its trauma bonding and grooming. Her mediocre backstory didnt provide enough reason for her to simp for her oppressor when she can wipe them all out with her titan powers from the constant abuse and treatment she got from the King. There was no reason for her to feel afraid once she turned into a giant titan. It wouldve been a better story if she killed the oppressor king and fell in love with the king's rival who treated her "better" and was named King Fritz.

Nanami's Wife

RUMBLING RUMBLING RUMBLING RAHHHHHHHHH I will always defend my glorious king Eren for eternity!! My man my man my mannnn❤️ Eren's story is so sad, makes me cry everytime. He was just a child with the weight of the world on his shoulders. For years he knew his future was nothing but hell and had to cope with it himself. He couldn't even turned to any of the people he loved or cared about. He was a slave to freedom and his duty to save Eldians since the beginning. A hero would sacrifice you (paradis) to save the world, while a villian will sacrifice the world to save you (paradis). In this case, the heroes are the ones that want to kill all of Paradis while everyone sees the villian as Eren. But in hindsight, he's becoming the villian to save his friends he loves so deeply. And Ymir’s story is so sad. She deserved way better🥺. Her waiting for Eren all this time was such a crazy reveal. And Eren screaming out to her at the end saying “I’ll end it for you” and us finally seeing her face and her crying was so emotional

LeFlaneur

I know a lot of people will disagree, but I hate Ymir so much. Yes she’s a victim, what she went through is unforgivable, but even as she ends up with so much power, she allows so much escalation, deterioration and ultimately empowers the most vile and the most extremists elements of this world.

Pudding

Trueee, super amazed at how much feeling he put in it. You'd almost believe the va experienced that scene in real life. The horror and regret in his voice..

Xala04

Yeah, Eren is the son Grisha would have wanted in Marley

Daniella

After so many rewatches of the show I only caught it with these reactions but in the season finale of season 1 Eren literally says ‘I’ll destroy the whole world’ like bro wasn’t kidding 😭

Pudding

Broooo how did I just learn that that creature was inspired by a real life extinct species?? So cool. Thanks for the name, made me do some research and it's kind of interesting.

M1GZ

so facts best va in the show tbh

randon name 123

lets see how much you care about ethics when your family gets killed, you enslaved and your tongue cut out. all while youre still a child. those who suffered a similar fate and your only memory of the old life then end up betraying you for someone elses mistake, just because youre the weakest link, which causes you being hunted down like a wild pig. pretty reasonable imo that she ends up with twisted emotions and morality

Jimmy

Eve “Erens mental is still there! He just wants to eliminate the entire world outside of a few people 😊”

Nanami's Wife

Bro when episode 20 came out, you guys had to have been there. The media was going CRAZY😂 Especially for the scene with Eren and Grisha. Eren used the fact that grisha can see through his future memories to communicate with him and manipulate his actions in the past. So insane, I remember everyone being flabbergasted 😂😂

Pham Hung

Yes. Many people cannot wrap their heads around Ymir's character, but she's a great character in the same way that Eren is a great character. She's a villain by completely letting her victimhood dictate her life. She didn't need Eren to tell her she's free; she always has the power. She chose to do what she did - just like Eren chose to carry out the rumbling. Isayama presents us with their circumstances so we can understand them, but he still condemns their actions and says, "Yes, these are the reasons why they might act this way, but it is also something fundamental to their character, but no matter what, their actions cannot be excused."

jessiefungirl

I hadn't even started the season yet and saw screenshots EVERYWHERE

dimitris athanasiou

The way this plot twist of MOTF episode recontextualizes so many things in the show is absolutely insane work. A textbook example of a great plot twist: shocking, well-foreshadowed, recontextualizes the characters involved developing them and pushes the narrative forward in major ways. AoT consistently does this and it's absurdly well-executed. The next arc of AoT is somewhat controversial and I imagine we'll be seeing a lot of Jaegerist/Titanfolkers in the comment section complaining, but let them be. A lot of peak still incoming. Now, I guess for those watching the show first time with the geks I'll say spoilers incoming: In this episode with Ymir's backstory, you get a bit of foreshadowing for her "loving King Fritz" twist, or her tendency to seek love and be loved by others as a character trait and what she seeks. A lot of people say that twist came out of nowhere, but they're objectively wrong. There is instances in this episode, and there will be again later. Ymir's freedom is a complicated topic, and is a character journey that is built on subtext and context clues (obviously, she doesn't speak). But I will die on the hill that it's great for the story and she has a great thematic conclusion (her learning to prioritize her kids instead of the king as the source of her happiness, what drives her, the little things that Armin was talking about with Zeke). Anyway, I won't ramble on this place about it, there's a lot of content out there for people to dive into if they want a proper analysis. Also, I know the girls have finished AOT and I don't know what they will think of the Eren episodes/content later, but as others have pointed out, this episode explicitly shows that Eren has always been who he is. This is especially important to understand because of eg the Dina twist that will come later, that people argue "ruins" his character motivations, as if Eren didn't care about the outside world or eliminating his enemies before his mother's death (we literally see him caring in this episode all these haters call "peak"). Anyway, Eren is a complex character and I think the Ramzi scene later on + really analyzing "why" the show parallels Reiner and Eren will help a LOT with understanding Eren, since Reiner is easier to understand and by proxy you can understand a lot of Eren as well. How they both act in accordance to fundamentally selfish/emotionally self-serving ways and commit horrible acts in the name of a more selfless/noble goal that they can rationalize it with (and ofc this doesn't mean they don't believe in those goals too, they absolutely do, it's just that their actions are underpinned by their own selfish motivations), and how due to comitting these horrible acts they both feel suicidal, depressed, they want to die. Etc etc, one could go on with all the ways Eren parallels and contrasts other characters in the show to piece together his character and role in the narrative. As I said before, don't listen to the haters, a lot of peak incoming.

Pham Hung

Completely unrelated (kinda) tangent for my gamers out there, but if AoT is your GOAT, you should check out Clair Obscur: Expedition 33. A story hasn't touched me deeply since AoT. I know I am preaching to the choir because the game is so popular, but if you're even a bit hesitant, I give my full endorsement for AoT friends, especially to check out that game. It might be the top 5 story/narrative I've ever experienced in any medium.

M1GZ

Bradlynn "this is coming out of no where idk how we got here" Last words of s3. Eren "If we kill all our enemies over there will we finally be free?" 4x5 with Reiner "it's as Willy Tyber says I'm the bad guy I might just destroy the world" even back in s1 finale when he went rage mode "I WILL DESTROY THE ENTIRE WORLD..... I AM FREE!!!" Even in this episode (ep 20) when he says I am who I've always been its not necessarily in a good sense as in I'm still a good kid but rather I've always been this ruthless and its true, even if his actions with Mikasa were justified he still murdered those 3 men in cold blood as a little boy while calling them animals and didn't really think twice about it he's been a bit of a psycho since the start and he lets Zeke know it. "You may have thought that we were the same, but you're wrong. Rather than letting some steal my freedom, it'll steal theirs first." and he meant it, the world has united to destroy Paradis and he does not plan on giving them a second to even attempt it. That's who Eren is. Definitely don't agree with his plan as unlike many in the comments I don't think slaughtering the whole planet is much of a solution too anything but as much as we all wanted to believe it wouldn't turn out like this, it definitely makes sense how Eren ended up here. It's been foreshadowed from the start Eren's black and white emotional outlook has been a constant Levi warned us in s1 "I can tell, he's a real monster, and not because of his titan ability. No matter how hard he's restrained, no matter what cage he's put inside, no one can ever tame him"

Jmann

These are two of the biggest episodes in the whole show, yet it has the shortest discussion 😭 I was hoping to hear so much more

DontFailArtSchoolEren

I guess Eren didnt really care about eventual civil wars and disputes over Titan power abuse or how the future Founding Titan/Royal Blood Eldians will handle the future. Hes just buying time from their demise like King Fritz/Reiss family, except instead of being trapped in walls on Paradis, they are now trapped on Earth but the cycle of conflict doesnt change, it doesnt end. Zekes plan was to remove Eldians from experiencing such a cycle without needing to involve more deaths but Eren doesnt want to go out with a Whimper but with a Bang!

Dasha

Eren since day 1 “I’m gonna kill them all”

DontFailArtSchoolEren

These 2 episodes were incredibly well executed with the music and voice acting and things coming together while keeping the tension high. I was just thinking where Ymir got the water/bucket from and why there wasnt more chains like on Eren's feet. Well the ending is lost on most people on what to think, its just a cycle of selfish procreation into the self-destruction of humanity, everyone was just delaying the inevitable but Zeke wanted to end it right now. If humanity never reaches a Utopia, theres no payoff for all this surviving and procreating. We have history to prove its very hard to guarantee humanity wont destroy itself before reaching some Heaven On Earth yet people continue to participate in this cycle in their selfish hopes and dreams, we are biologically programmed to never accept extinction (obviously) but humans can now make that choice through intellect not be a slave to biological instinct.

Dasha

Unfortunately this is how many people are. I don’t know any mass murderers irl😅, but I’ve known women who were abused, let their children be abused, and still did nothing. Her behavior is painfully realistic even by today’s standards, let alone in ancient times. If this feels foreign to you, consider yourself lucky

Jenny D

These were such crazy episodes! I honestly don't know if there is stopping Eren. He's gone down a path that I'm not sure there is returning from. I feel like when it comes down to it they are likely going to have to kill him if he doesn't realize that this isn't the answer. This show has a way of throwing you for a loop! I want there to he a happy ending and for Eren to redeem himself and live, but I get the impression that there will be more deaths of characters we love and in the end it will be a bittersweet ending. I plan on watching the next two tonight

Dwob

It was such a crazyyyyy time I saw reels of it everywhere

Jenny D

I went back and saw the guys reaction to these two as well! It threw me for a loop as a first time watcher and I had to see their reactions as well

Juanpa_20

He was feeling guilt,sadness, and pain for telling mikasa that he always hated her and that she’s a slave during that table scene, it shows in his face during that scene that he was lying the whole time and that everything he told her was a contradiction bc of all his actions

Dwob

For me I didn’t think this was a big jump for Eren. From when he himself said to Zeke that he’s always been this way since birth it made me realise all the instances that proved this point. Even Levi had once said Eren was a monster. We just kept overlooking it as the series progressed because in our eyes he was the main character Eren who had to be good. Not saying he’s always been evil but like he said himself he will take away someone’s freedom if they try to take his away. All the dots just connected for me when I first heard/read those scenes ~ As each episode goes by and as I keep rewatching this series I just love how deep Eren’s character is even more 😭

DontFailArtSchoolEren

Depending on which side your on, there will be a "happy ending" since someone will win and someone will lose.

Juanpa_20

Sayin that kinda doesn’t do his character justice yeah he killed those men in cold blood but he was doing it to save mikasa who would’ve been sold to perverts in the walls as a sex slave, he always had compassion for his friends and even enemies at times with bertold and Reiner that’s why there betrayal made it hit hard he even wouldn’t believe until they proved it infront of his face and even with Annie when he couldn’t believe his friends outing her out like that, he always had a soft spot, he’s always have tried to do the right thing even in the forest after Levi’s squad was killed he tried to transform but he trusted his squad and that’s what got them killed, that kiss to historias hand just really warped his mind and he even acknowledges that in the end were the founders power messed with his head

DontFailArtSchoolEren

@safaricat "Zeke's plan is terrible. castrating a race of people so they can't reproduce, only to die out and be forgotten" you realise humanity will be forgotten one day too right? Either through nuclear wars, natural disasters or when the sun dies or when the black hole swallows the galaxy etc etc its inevitable. None of it matters in the end, are aliens going to prove humanity existed on Earth? Whos writing our history down in the Universe? Even if Eldians survive another 100 or 1000 or 10,000 years, it only matters when people are born, you want people born into a world free from diseases, free from wars, freedom to do anything they want, a Utopia otherwise theres no payoff for surviving so long if its just another war, another genocide. If you truly believed this cycle never ends why would you want future people to experience this? You cant guarantee they will always have a great time and all their efforts will be meaningless if they cant create a Utopia to stop the cycle of suffering, people are just too afraid to break free from generational biological programming to survive for the sake of it.

Harry

there's no right or wrong answer, if eren does not take this step, the entire world is preparing to exterminate them. In hindsight it may look like euthanization was the correct choice for those who are not affected by the outcome..but for those who are to be euthanized would never go along with this plan and will follow eren to the end..

Thelcia

Yeah, sure. I just don’t like when people act like Eren turned ‘evil’ out of nowhere in season four. It frustrates me how some fans romanticize his actions by saying, “Oh, he did it all for his friends.’ Yes, that’s partly true—but it oversimplifies who Eren is. He is selfish. He made a conscious choice to prioritize his own vision of freedom, even if it meant sacrificing others. And honestly, that’s what makes him such a compelling character. He’s not a perfect hero, nor should he be. Characters don’t have to do everything morally right to be interesting or relatable. Sometimes, their flaws are what make them real.

Juanpa_20

That’s debunked he can’t just travel to his own memories 🤦‍♂️ thats not how the attack titan works you can only see the memories of those who inherited the attack titan before him, hence why when he kissed historias hand he saw the memories of grisha killing the reise family and not glimpses of his own people kinda get that mixed up, he only was able to do that through a loophole where zeke let eren travel through geishas memories

Juanpa_20

That man in black cloak that you see eren in a season 4 was just normal civilian that was crying after the attack on wall Maria happen

DontFailArtSchoolEren

People dont like the idea of surrendering to a choice someone else made that robs them of their future. But Zeke/Eren is able to manipulate their memories so they dont know they should be worried about being infertile or being devils to the world and just live in blissful ignorance if they agreed on the euthanization, do a partial rumbling to give the Eldians enough time to live their life, Eren's friends could all have fulfilling lives (besides children) and die naturally away from knowing the entire world wants all Eldians dead.

jemmy

@rayman that spells out the dilemma in the show. Removing Titans and letting Eldian die out seem good but Eldians have as just right to exist as any other human because 'they were born in this world.' Eren was never gonna agree to take the coward's way out. He'd rather fight and die fighting.

Juanpa_20

I think could be also Ymir’s hatred and rage that gave her courage to just break the cycle of being a slave and giving eren the power to commit genocide against the world there’s allot of indicators that shes waited for someone to free her , the first episode of series being to you 2000 years from now and this episode from you 2000 years ago, she was guiding eren this whole time and also why she let one of the pigs escape could’ve been another symbol as well

Jenny D

That could be. But, at this point in time I would say that both sides have lost a lot. So that's why I feel like it'll be bittersweet. One side or both sides may be happier, but what it took to get there costs them a lot.

DontFailArtSchoolEren

@Pablo Mogollon No one else in those 2000 years had the same hatred as Ymir or Eren to help break the cycle? Everyone born inside the castle walls didnt feel oppressed like cattle? Yeah Ymir is guiding Eren and if you finished watching AoT you know its for a different reason, Ymir doesnt care about "genocide against the world" or she wouldve done it after getting her titan powers that isnt whats going to set her free its a complete random reason to push a narrative that was never established.

Levi

to the girls this wasn't a plot twist, it was confusion.. its really rare to see a confusing reaction to this reveal.. I don't blame them its alot but if they were on track with this " memories thing " they may react in a different way to this big reveal Amazing reaction we can't wait for the next episodes 🫶🏻

Juanpa_20

What’s kinda sad detail and doesn’t get picked up by anybody is through out the whole series eren was always preaching freedom and wanting to bring it to his people and himself but he consistently getting kidnapped in every ark three seasons, in the first season he was chains and shackles, in the courtroom as well when they were deciding on ending him there or just using him as a weapon for the military’s needs he was the one character in the series that wasn’t free at all not even the embodiment of freedom and even to his own future he was a slave to the false freedom he always dreamed of

Juanpa_20

Maybe not the mass genocide thing but I understand what your saying 😭🤣

Sean Carroll

Yeah dude, so many of us just want to kill the entire planet. So relatable

Sean Carroll

“If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention” Ramsay Bolton

Hector

I agree, the ending credits shows this cycle happening on a time lapse

DontFailArtSchoolEren

@jemmy Yes when people are born they have a right to exist as any other human but the world is unfair and Eldians are born into a huge disadvantage currently, do you think its irresponsible and selfish if slaves had kids to be slaves or low income families to have kids and gambling on the chance the kids change everything? Society should have a duty of making sure their citizens have a good quality of life, Eldians kind of do inside the walls but their fate was sealed, Eren just moved the date. Is it not brave to accept punishment when you know the current circumstances in the world are bad for Eldians? Eren is a coward for not taking his punishment for the greater good of the world and he had the power to fight back so he rather fight, Zeke just went with the plan that had 100% more chance of working and less people dying.

Pudding

Huh, I see, thanks for the clarification. I didn't know it was debunked. Deleted the last part of the comment so people don't get confused like me lol

Juanpa_20

Nah u good 👍 🤣at first I believed that theory to but I saw videos of people talking about how time manipulation and how the future works in aot we all mess up sometime

JeanJean

They've already seen it by now since they binged before Brig left. I'm one of the "haters" personally, I just do not think the rest of AOT lives up to what it did prior to this and I will probably not watch the rest, whether it's the way the message is handled or the battles, there's just so much that's wrong and I dislike how both sides of this debate dismiss any possibility of a nuanced discussion about this. For example my main grief is the battles, I'm genuinely suprised so many people look over the fact that all the battles from now on SPOILERS leave no casualties. The plot armor is just too thick. Our cast fights off so many threats while being in ridiculously disadvantageous positions in chaotic environments, it's such a stark contrast when compared to the beginnings of the series where death could strike anyone at any moment, where even a handful of titans were a threat to the most experienced soldiers. Appart from that: - including their objective, everything fails to be as grounded, there's too much of a heroic idealistic undertone to the whole thing that doesn't feel appropriate for AOT. - There's a dissonance between what the characters achieve in the end (20% is left, it's practically genocide honestly) and how the show portrays it. It is not a success, but the show makes it look like it is. The ideals of Armin also simply do not overcome those of Eren, he never gives a proper answer to it, he himself even realizes it's failure when he is forced to kill his comrades. Armin's anwer to Zeke is ridiculous too, despite the fact Armin was clearly foreshadowed to be the hero ultimately, it really doesn't come across as a success. - It was always pretty obvious that Eren put up a facade but the way they handled the mask-off moment was unsubtle, I disliked how over-the-top Eren and Armin's final interaction was. This is not to say that there aren't some genuinely peak moments, I think many of the best scenes of the show are still to come but the avengers part is just not well done for me.

Justin ⟢

The “kill or be killed” mantra has always been a central part of Eren’s mentality since the beginning, when his mum dies. His enemy just shifted from titans to humans; the idea of “I’m gonna kill them all” that he’s always going on about throughout the seasons.

Juanpa_20

Aye get rumbled stay humbled🤷‍♂️

M1GZ

Please once your done do a op and ed reaction with lyrics like you did with the boys 🙏🏻 Also all the ovas you missed and also aot junior high oh yah how about a second rewatch while your at it lol

Pudding

Absolutely!! They need to

Sari-chan

Third rewatch, still feeling bamboozled at every corner of the story. It is layered, looped, and so mesmerizing to watch!

Rex Tan

I agree. He stayed true to to his character from beginning to end. -Spoiler dont read- Even from Season 1 where he keeps saying "I'll wipe out all the titans in the world". Technically, he did. At the end of Season 3 he points out beyond the sea and asks "if we kill the enemy will we then be free". Technically he did, or atleast tried to. In season 4 he tells Reiner he's the same as him, he finally views the people of Liberio/Marley as not the enemy but just regular people, but like Reiner he keeps moving forward (ie they had to die).

kiiturii

man, Grishas breakdown scene is just.. so insane. The voice acting is so good too

Nami Swannn

It is selfish to give up on humanity. The message, which was greatly emphasized in those last three episodes, has always been as stated by Armin "the world is cruel, but also beautiful". There's always gonna be war, but there's also always gonna be love and good things too. “It's true that there is no end in sight for this conflict and I'm sure the hell we went through has happened over and over again. But we need to think that despite it all, one day, we can eventually come to understand one another... And now no one will have any faith, not even in something as small as that. The only lesson they'll be left with... is that it's kill or be killed. That's all. And you're saying that you did all this for us?” And then Eren proceeds to call himself an idiot. Instead of at least attempting the planned partial Rumbling, which could have shown the world that they weren't evil and that they wanted peace, he chose to go with the full Rumbling, because he couldn't stop himself from chasing his messed-up idea of freedom, knowing full well that he wouldn't be able to complete it (at least once he was in the paths he knew, before that is up for debate). The only legacy he left behind is the lesson of violence, that you should destroy your enemies, giving rise to the Jaegerist regime. It wasn't just because wars are destined to continue for eternity. Even if Eren had completed the Rumbling, the lesson learned would still be the same. Paradis would eventually destroy itself through infighting, or at least conflicts between different factions would never end, as history has shown. “Wiping their memories” (which I highly doubt they’d do as the ppl left in power were too prideful of their legacy), is a possibility, but it wouldn’t stop future wars. There was already loads of classism and problems going on within Paradis. All the nobles suck because the good ones were murdered decades ago, the old and new leadership don't seem to have done anything about the human trafficking operations going on (the old ones being contributors and all), and a derelict slum exists right underneath their capital city. It shows how pure and isolated utopias disconnected from humanity's evils don't exist. With or without the power of the titans still existing, the cycle would repeat. The only issue “solved” is that Eldians don’t have to deal with the outside world. But the core of the issue lies with humanity and the mindset people have. While the problem of the world wanting to genocide the Eldians will be removed, the world will inevitably return to how it's always been. People fighting each other.

kiiturii

best set of episodes. This is absolute peak

kiiturii

Eren is who he has always been ep1: "I will wipe out every last one of them"

Faeginn

Eve: I can fix him.

Conk

Someone's in a bad mood 🤭

dimitris athanasiou

I will not address the tonal criticisms or the Eren stuff, as that is kind of way too huge of a discussion for the purposes of a reply here. A lot of AoT fans mistakenly imo attribute AOT to be some grimdark story unlike other "shounen" anime when fundamentally there's a lot of pro-life and optimistic undertones throughout the story if you sit and analyze it. As for Eren, he's been discussed a million times tbh, there's a ton of posts about him and you are aware of it probably, I won't go into a tangent here lol. I actl want to address the battle part because I think this is a talking point that's repeated by "haters" but I honestly don't see that much basis in it for the most part. The port battle for example is extremely overhated. Magath/Keith died (there's your stakes) and as far as everyone else surviving... Floch for one is a terrible strategician (no seriously, look what he says, he just tells them to run in and fight with no real plan, and then later "just blow up the boat", he just LARPs as Erwin without any of his skillset), and the Jaegerists there are newbies with not nearly as much battle experience as our crew. Also, if you think about the battle placements of the Alliance, it's actl pretty smart, Hange/Mikasa with hit and run tactics with their ODM blades, Jean and Magath occupying different vantage points (Magath shooting from the ground, Jean from the buildings), and the multiple Titan shifters at play tanking most of the Jaegerists. And then Connie/Falco come in as a second surprise wave that further throws the Jaegerist formation into chaos. It is a chaotic situation you are right, but one that actually favours the Alliance. After that, we have Hange's death, which not many people take issue with, that's a huge loss to set the stakes up. Some people in the manga weren't happy with how it was portrayed, but the anime adaptation emphasized how close to the wire it was and how she needed to stay back. Also, another criticism here by folks is that it's convenient that Falco learns to fly just right after, and Hange could survive. Even *if* that happened earlier, in time, Hange literally said "we mustn't use up our Titan powers", so she would deny Falco anyway, just like she did with Reiner/Armin. And then we have the infamous one, the final battle. I agree here that one couldve died, Pieck for example. But ppl asking for half the cast to die here are ridiculous imo. The Alliance is constantly on the backfoot barely surviving anyway, and the stakes of the battle are pretty clear even without our protagonists dying left and right. The battle is also really quick in realtime, so it's not like they were surviving for hours against an endless horde of Titans. Isayama has to tread a fine line too in terms of Eren, he already succeeded in making Eren a hypocrite, which is important for his characterization, but making him responsible for almost all his friends dying would probably turn out as a net-negative for the story's enjoyment if I had to guess his thinking. He already got Sasha/Hange killed due to his actions and caused them a ton of mental distress and trauma, so Isayama probably felt satisfied enough without more deaths. And I think he wanted to leave the story on a somewhat more hopeful tone to emphasize the themes that Special2 was presenting very explicitly. Finally, one small comment about the 20% being treated as a good thing. It is definitely a good thing, even a few people surviving would be an achievement, that's a preservation of innocent life, and I think the show is trying to emphasize how precious that is. Yeah, most might have died, but so what? I think your criticism comes across a bit like "well, 80% died, who cares about more dying, all the same" which like... I don't need to address more how that sounds. All this is not to say that the final arc is perfect, nothing is, some of my criticisms would be messy Titan power logistics here and there (that do have reasonable explanations for hardcore fans, but I wouldn't necessarily blame a normal fan for getting confused at all) and some small pacing issues (though I would credit these issues to early War for Paradis arc rather than post-Rumbling for the most part).

Galaxy Nemesis

I guess Zekes plan isnt looking too bad now xD Edit: Yup Eve called it immediately haha. Eren managed to make Zeke and Yelena look like the good guys. Not sure the mental gymnastics it would take to say otherwise at this point. I personally thought that it was really obvious that Eren would try to do something like that. It is really surprising that Armin and Mikasa didn't see this coming. Well on the bright side the opening is safe to watch now I think.

JC

when the next upload?

ShadowCat

This is like the 5th re-watch for me and I still can't stop myself from watching these mouth agape. It's just insane. This is the best show of all time.

John D. Acebes

Didn't want to add this until this episode drop, but a continuation from a previous comment about the tie to Norse Mythology. Just how Norse Ymir's body after death was taken apart to create the universe (earth, sky, heavens, etc), AOT Ymir's body created the Eldian Empire. The daughters who literally ate Ymir influenced the names of the walls that made up the "world" of contemporary Eldians

John D. Acebes

AOTs spin on the themes of freedom and slavery is so good

John D. Acebes

Watching post discussion. The actions Eren has taken is a bit extreme when contextualized, but in terms of understanding motive I think it really boils down to Eren's explanation and his childhood. Paraphrasing from their trip down memory lane; Eren said he was always who he was since he was born. There were misdirects to think that Ymir might have a hold on his actions up to this point. What I think provides the most clarity is the framing with the childhood murder of Mikasa's kidnappers. Eren says he is willing to take others' freedoms before they take his. That's it. The world wanted to take away the Eldians freedoms by exterminating them, so Eren is just doing what he believes is right. The same way he saved Mikasa by killing the kidnappers, he is willing to kill the world to save his Eldian family.

John D. Acebes

is he morally just? That's a different discussion and a reflection of what people believe is just when it means to take another's life. War's a bitch

TheSauceGuy

Eve ain't surviving to fix him bro

TheSauceGuy

I don't think anyone can argue on behalf of Eren and not sound ignorant, delusional, or hateful. It's wrong to kill 80% of the planet without doing everything you possibly can to prevent it. Not even Eren's closest friends are in favor of what he's doing.

John D. Acebes

Im not saying Eren was right, but I also never grew up being hated for my existence and having to deal with automatic murderous intentions from everyone around me. Don't get me twisted and believe I would support killing most of the world without having talked anything out (I'm aligned with Armin's thinking), but I can understand Eren's motive without the justification

Ante

Y'all need to get Bradlynn to rewatch season 1, for some mind fuckery. All of Eren's dialogue hits completely different. You literally hear him describe everything that hes going to do.

Ante

I also feel like there should defo have been discussion post 20. Clearing up the confusion was so needed at that point. Heck, watch the ep again off screen if you need to.

John D. Acebes

You can call it delusional and hateful, but then you come across human history and mass genocide. What led to those decisions? Were they also delusional? Did they do everything to prevent going to war first? It's not so black and white unfortunately. And to be clear, I am a pacifist. I do not condone violence but human nature is tricky business

kiiturii

yeah I was also always really worried about exactly this on my first watch, when Grisha says "everything will go like eren wants it to" and tells zeke to stop Eren I was so scared lol

jblakk

I think Isayama puts enough subtext into the story to really tackle the morals here. The barebones plot is humans turning into monsters(titans) and fighting each other or fighting other monsters(titans). It's a clear allegory on the concept of violence in general. Persecution and hate doesn't excuse becoming a monster, it merely explains why it happens.

jblakk

Now that the rumbling has finally started I can say this.. I really feel like there was way more practical ways to solve the eldian problem. Instead of killing they could have abandoned the island and immigrated into the azmubito continent. Azmubito agree to this in exchange they're allowed to take ALL their resources on the island. If they did this then Marley would have no way to finding the paradise eldians and they would slowly disappear from the zeitgeist. Because there's no physical indicator that shows what race they are on looks alone. Not saying the plan was perfect but Eren truly was dictated by anger and hate and not pragmatism. He gave up on alternate solutions rather quickly, partly due to his own future memories putting him in a self fulfilling prophecy. I bring this up not to critique the show or Eren cuz the show is great, but to critique this helpless fan explanation that "there was no other way" Its lazy.

FURsona

The parallels to ymir (the jaw titan one) is so crazy, especially when they all point fingers at the original ymir, kinda like how the restorationists blamed the jaw titan ymir when she was a kid

John D. Acebes

Although I agree with you, I am gonna choose to play devil's advocate. Persecution and hate does not excuse becoming a monster, but at what level is it justified to take a life in self defense? Is someone a monster when they decide to protect their home? How different conceptually - without regarding population size - is a murderer who has clear intentions to kill your family in your own home compared to the whole world and your island? More digestable scaling. What if your whole neighborhood has sent clear murderous intent to your family because of something your great-great grandfather did that you didn't know about? They are going to kill you regardless of what you choose to do. Do you arm yourself and fight? Or do you try to talk with them even though they have their guns cocked?

S Moonchild⁷

What are we arguing over? I just drew the parallels of the scene. And by love, yes I mean Stockholm syndrome, but she was trying to save the king because of some sympathy towards him.

Dee

And to think Ymir loved that King until the very end

jblakk

I think the concept of self defense also has to account for options (is deadly force the only option? Usually it isn't) and specifically in this case self defense is NEVER pre-emptive even when people try to say it is. Not everyone who is in Rumbling rage were ever going to attack Paradis. I think your hypothetical is a bit too "leading" for a lack of a better word and I say this softly cuz I know its just devils adv. But there are more options than to talk or fire back while their guns are cocked. You can reposition yourself to a room that is out of bullet firing range and so that if they step in you can disarm or take them out. OR you could flee the home entirely until a station of better communication can be had. If he was truly doing self defense and not acting out of selfishness I don't think he would have been as conflicted as he was throughout this process. That's why I think the whole turning into titans is so poignant to begin with. They're clearly monsters. When you result to thinking its your only option left you do indeed become a monster fighting other monsters. Whether a world full of monsters fighting other monsters is a world worth living in, is another question entirely, but self defense on its own cant be a shield in this sense.

samuel Leite

Eren is the same as he was but now he has depression

Sean Carroll

It’s both a plot twist and confusion

John D. Acebes

You right. Thanks for responding. I agree with all your points. I just have an itch to talk controversy and this show reflects a lot worth discussing. To reiterate, I don't think Eren is right and I was leading a bit to spark discussion. People should talk it out rather than fight. Eren is indeed selfish

Artemipsyche

I will never not watch this episode with my jaw on the floor. It’s so ironic how Zeke was the child that was treated horribly, and he turned out NOT to be the mass murderer?? It was the one that had a normal upbringing? The two brothers parallels, the Ymir parallels, I’m not sure that Isayama is human.

Sherya

Absolute cinema 🙌🏼 AOT 👏👏👏

TheSauceGuy

The parasite or "source of all living matter" is incredibly interesting to me. The nature of its origin and purpose is intentionally left ambiguous, but one of the info cards suggests it is a celestial parasite. Some fans believe it is some sort of "mindless god" that symbolizes life and survival. I'd like to imagine that, like many parasites, it couldn't reproduce without a host. This is the primary reason that it attached itself to Ymir, and after sensing her situation, it gave her the power she wanted so that she (and by extension, the parasite itself) could survive. When Ymir "died," the parasite used its power to keep Ymir's essence alive forever within the Paths. After King Fritz ordered Ymir's daughters to eat her, Ymir's essence was split between them, and eventually split further into the 9 titans. The canon reason (I'll address this in another comment) why there were never more than 9 titan shifters (as far as we know) is left ambiguous. Regardless, it seems the parasite was able to spread by maintaining a connection to all of Ymir's descendants. Whenever a shifter dies and their power isn't consumed, it passes to another Subject of Ymir, which helps perpetuate the parasite's presence. If we're to assume all Subjects of Ymir are at least distantly related, then perhaps the parasite or founder was able to negate the negative impacts of incest as well. We also don't know the exact mechanics of "royal blood," especially if all Subjects of Ymir are related, but I imagine they are descended from the children of whichever daughter first received the Founding Titan. Also, if you didn't know, the parasite was inspired by hallucigenia, which was a real genus of organisms that lived around 500 million years ago during the Cambrian period. The Cambrian period marked the start of the Phanerozoic eon, which we live in. Phanerozoic means "visible life," which makes sense because this eon is where life on Earth diversified and became more abundant. What's also crazy is that this eon stretches from ~541 million years ago up to the present day, yet it only encompasses around 12% of Earth's total history.

Slizzle

Dontfailartschool you just told the biggest lie of the century, there’s no happy ending in aot no matter who you support

TheSauceGuy

We need a loop of AoT where you guys just get more and more people to watch it until there isn't a single person left on the planet who hasn't.

Slizzle

Jenny are you watching the show for the first time with the girls?

Jenny D

Yes, I am. I am fully expecting a bittersweet ending

Bradlynn Andrus

I feel like I just woke up from a really long dream 😔

TheSauceGuy

@jblakk I think your point on "explaining why it happens" is incredibly important and something people in the real world still seem to not understand to this day. The US has the highest population of incarcerated individuals in the world, and is not good at rehabilitating or preventing crime. Police often escalate instead of de-escalating, and tactics are used to police low-income neighborhoods and provoke crimes with the use of bait cars and such. All of it is focused on punishment (and even low-wage/slave labor), rather than looking at the root cause of why people commit certain crimes. We can't create a utopia, but we can certainly minimize crime by changing our approach.

TheSauceGuy

Showing Porco "dying with a smile" got me lol.

John D. Acebes

Root cause is money. AOT frames violence for means of survival. Real life? Crimes happen because some people believe they can't afford to live or have a money incentive to commit crime. Wars now? Lack of communication and supporting livelihoods. Convince people other people are enemies and the reason they can't afford to live nice and you've got violence and crime. Maybe I'm off the mark, but this is what I believe

John D. Acebes

In retrospect, other crimes such as rape and murder without theft does not have money incentive. Lack of respect for others, lack of a deterrents and punishment, and power fantasies are probably more at the core of violence. I just like to blame the 1% ngl

Miitei

Not the AMVs Bradlynn 😭

Hayden Ton

yall gotta show the girls how eren and eren kruger say the same thing when talking to grisha. also eren isn't gone hes just taking his core values to an extreme (protecting his friends)

a_daichi

“yet you’re fighting just like he wanted” oh poor naive zeke. this is exactly what eren has been wanting himself since he was a kid

Grxvity

Im so curious to what u guys have been doing post watch since u guys have been finished lmaoo, (I went into the tiktok rabbit whole) Excited to see how yall feel when the ending drops on patreon!

Nami Swannn

The amvs oh she’s too far gone 😭😭😭

Bradlynn Andrus

all I’ve been doing post watch is crying every night and watching edits and listening to call of silence and sobbing and trying to repair my broken heart

M1GZ

Please react to all the op and Ed’s and ovas it’ll fill that void in your heart 😂

Bradlynn Andrus

Pablo please no I have no strength… somewhere only we know?! I am in shambles… goodbye….

Bocchi the sweep

Levi said it himself in the forest during season 1, Eren isn't a monster because of his powers, he is a monster because he is who he is. Little did we know....

TheSauceGuy

They have to watch "Attack on Titan IN 9 MINUTES" lol.

Chuck Norris

the girls saying can we just watch and talk after is so real im with you guys

TheSauceGuy

Also, I'd say they should watch "A SLAP ON TITAN," but that might be a little much for them lol. Considering it was uploaded in 2014, some of the millennial humour is certainly dated.

a_daichi

great explanation!

Bradlynn Andrus

Paul I’m going to need to watch this once I’m a bit more emotionally stable…

Grxvity

So real😭 This show has had me like that since it ended in 2023. I don't think there's any recovering From this sadly😭😭😭 Dyk if you and eve will be back on for any other animes?

eve richards

ur done pablo 😭😭 that video just broke me

M1GZ

This show makes me emotional like no other 😭😭

eve richards

guys u have no idea 💀 me and bradlynn just send each other edits every single day and cry

Grxvity

This is literally me and my homies, I swear this show had me in a choke hold for so long I couldn't think of anything else 😭🙏

Grxvity

Also Im curious if u and bradlynn will ever watch the dub? (english version) Definitely have some peak moments that hit really hard in the dub!

Grxvity

Im curious if u and Eve will ever watch the dub? (english version) Definitely have some peak moments that hit really hard in the dub!

a_daichi

@dimitris this was great and I agree 👏🏾

a_daichi

Eren. Such a tortured soul. Always wanting to save your friends and people but committing horrific acts to do just that. Becoming a slave to freedom and going through it all on your own for years…. Every time I rewatch AoT and see Eren, Mikasa and Armin together, it just makes me want to cry lol. Hurts me every time. Love them sm.

Paul Durbin

Hahaha welcome to post-AoT-depression and the endless scouring of the internet for more.

TheSauceGuy

@GreetswithJudgement at least someone knows lol

TheSauceGuy

I mean, I love him, but Zeke kind of was a mass murderer; he just wasn't the "violently and pre-emptively kill everyone on the planet because peace talks are too hard" sort of guy.

TheSauceGuy

The way it's animated is so incredible too.

TheSauceGuy

I'm pretty sure they will, they'd definitely want to show them at least the intros

Sean Carroll

When we finished aot at the end of 2023 my sister was crying every day we talked about it for about 10 days, she watched the same videos and sometimes still cries when we talk about it now.

Pham Hung

Well, boys, we did it - haters, they're not anymore. The sceptics to full-blown zealots pipeline is undefeated.

GreetswithJudgement

@Sauce Hell yea . “I am the Crimson King…” It’s gold. It’s all gold.

Artemipsyche

Fair enough…just a more peaceful version I guess 😂

Lorenzo

18:15 Reiss didnt escape, Eren “made” Grisha kill all of the royal family BUT Rod Reiss.

Artemipsyche

Nooo not the edits…some of those TikTok edits are like a punch to the gut 😭😭😭

kiiturii

yeah dude, the glowup from the first couple episodes of s4 where some of movements looked a little awkward and unnatural to THIS. It's so crazy

Artemipsyche

This song is straight tears every time. Colt and Falco 💔

Juanpa_20

Don’t worry when the last episode of season 2 part 2 came out I was complaining about how long the wait for the finale to come out and my brother over heard me and just spoiled me with mikasa kissing erens decapited head in the manga panel 🥲

Juanpa_20

It makes sense because if rod didn’t survive historia would’ve never been queen and most likely killed on the front lines of the survey corps

Artemipsyche

After seeing Bradlynn and Eve’s reactions, I would love to see them react to some of the anime movies like a Silent Voice or Your Name…I feel like they’d really enjoy some of those! ☺️ I love love love having women reactors to watch - I don’t see many of us!

Juanpa_20

@bradylnn I’ve been suffering for a year in half now you have to I’m sorry 😭

Juanpa_20

@eve Richard’s If you thinks that’s tragic don’t search attack on titan edits on tik tok just warning you 🥲

Levi's Teacup

Cannon and Carter reliving Grisha's absolutely horrifying trauma was definitely the value of a rewatch. Wow the last few days of that guy's life was tremendously haunting and sad

Dakota

The time stuff is an absolute mind fuck, excuse my language. It's insane how deep it actually goes, and its so hard on first watch to fully comprehend what is even happening. The show is completely worth a rewatch, coming from someone who has rewatched it about 7 times already since 2022.

joursh

cannons face starting from 17:16 has me fried i cant stop laughing bro

TheSauceGuy

It was great to see the change in their perspectives through their reactions, especially Cannon's face hahaha. Bro, I tear up a bit at that scene after he leaves the church every single time. It's interesting how Grisha still gives Eren his powers after going through all of that and after what he'd seen.

TheSauceGuy

He deserves to win something from that one scene after leaving the church alone lol

TheSauceGuy

It's almost dehumanizing in a way, but Ymir's eyes finally are shown open once Eren speaks to her.

Robert L

She builds the titans not the wall

Robert L

The walls were constructed by King Fritz

TheSauceGuy

He is certainly a tortured soul, and I agree with your last statement. As good as S4 is overall, it makes you miss the moments where the trio were together. That being said, Eren didn't start the Rumbling because he wanted to save his friends. I feel it's a disservice to his character, but he did it because he was selfish; the world outside the walls wasn't what he wanted it to be, so he wanted to get rid of it. That's what "being a slave to freedom" meant for him: just wiping the world clean of life because it wouldn't allow him to achieve his childish notion of what freedom was. He also says he's an idiot, so take from that what you will lol. He could've easily saved his friends without trampling the planet, and there were certainly methods to potentially save the island's population without doing so either. Maybe there's something I fundamentally don't understand about his character, but none of his actions really make sense, and I feel you'd have to be incredibly stupid and selfish to do what he did. While Eren was both stupid and selfish at times (we all can be), I don't think it was ever to the level where he'd do something so drastic when it accomplishes literally nothing.

DontFailArtSchoolEren

@Nami Swannn "Love" and "Good" things is a coping mechanism used to survive long enough to procreate, our brains became complex enough to create entertainment and arts and literature in our little bubble to cope with the cruel world. Its natural to be selfish, Zeke is trying to OVERCOME that generational programming for Eldians by escaping the cycle, Eren is just delaying the inevitable with wanting to stay in this cruel world but start on equal or better reality for Eldians. Humanity is just writing the story as we continue to exist, when nuclear disasters happen or the sun finally dies or the galaxy gets swallowed into a black hole, who will CONFIRM we even existed? Its just surviving for survival's sake in a world of flaws and limited resources to fight over. Im not saying you cant have a fulfilling life but if you knowingly bring a new life into a disadvantageous situation you are giving them more suffering for your own selfish reasons. Being born into a cycle of violence is completely different from being born into a Utopia, free from diseases, wars, racism and wealth inequality, thats a cycle I would want to bring life into, not to GAMBLE on the hopes that the future could improve without POWER, Eren found that POWER so i understand how close he is to changing things.

M1GZ

the titans are the walls what u talking about....

Sean Carroll

The titans she builds use their hardening ability which I imagine Ymir gave them the possibility of doing that

indy

listening to call of silence is so fricken real

Club Penguin

The walls are made of titan hardening, they are made out of sand while ymir is walking in the paths, the pathway she is walking on is the top of the wall, so ymir certainly built them as well

Dani G

How is it that this show gets better with every rewatch? The “stand up, dad” moment will forever give me full body chills.

Dani G

This particular rewatch (even though I’ve seen it so many times before now) has really made me feel much deeper for both Zeke and Grisha.

Dani G

The Eren Yeager intercom moment will always be my second favorite in this series. That speech, Eren’s voice, the music. God, it’s so bonechilling. But also, this was totally foreshadowed at the end of season three during the ocean scene when Eren said, “if we kill all of our enemies, will we finally be free?”

Dani G

Eren is the epitome of the I Will Burn The World Down For You trope.

Nanami's Wife

Same!! Even after the show is done, I'm still crying. Us AOT fans can never rest, we will always be in pain 😂 I love that you an Eve are sending edits of the show together. Hopefully in some of the sad ones you see some funny or thirst trap edits😂

cristina

grisha’s moment of realization of seeing eren in front of him is just incredible

eve richards

wayyyyy too late pablo 😩 my entire fyp is aot now

TheSauceGuy

I don't think Grisha actually sees Eren. When he exits his home, he does not see Eren, but rather sees himself through Eren's eyes. In my opinion, this is much more disturbing because you know he's watching you and seeing these moments from the "future." When Grisha sees Zeke (both times), it's because Eren is looking at Zeke from behind Grisha, so he's seeing himself here as well.

TheSauceGuy

It is simultaneously one of the best and worst aspects of the series to me.

cristina

oh sorry YES THAT’S TRUE !! i agree it’s even more disturbing… so crazy

TheSauceGuy

I wonder if Eve would like Caesar lol

TheSauceGuy

I'd be down to cry again

randon name 123

i agree with both ur points of 1. not enough casualties and 2. to much heroic undertone, personally i would also 3. to fast paced. After the attack on shiganshina began everything happens so fast that its pretty much impossible to properly understand what is going on, and even if you do, then you dont get enough time to process it. imo there should have been 5 seasons not 4. with more content and side story lines. But this is critique on a very high level, yet i cant help but be dissappointed about the missed out potential towards the very end of the show.

TheSauceGuy

I think that shift is odd, though. Pure titans are almost entirely mindless beasts driven purely by an instinct to eat people. His "kill or be killed" ideology made sense with the titans. When moving over to humans, Eren hesitated to kill Annie despite everything she'd done. Once he learned more about the outside world and understood that they weren't much different from the people inside the walls, you'd think he'd have some sort of realization that the Rumbling makes no sense. Perhaps he does, but he still goes along with it because he succumbs to his emotions, which also feel misplaced to me.

TheSauceGuy

It's because he was a garden-variety idiot

TheSauceGuy

@JeanJean I'm not a hater, but I totally understand most of your frustrations. I have some additional criticisms regarding Eren's character arc, Grisha still giving Eren his titan powers, Zeke magically overcoming the vow renouncing war, and Eren influencing the past to ensure the terrible future happens. My ultimate feeling at the end of the day is like what @randon name 123 said. I absolutely adore the series as a whole, and while S4 has so many amazing moments, I'm ultimately left frustrated by the missed potential in the show's closing season. The issues I mentioned could've been minimized or removed had we received more material covering these important story points. Isayama wanted Eren to become the villain from the start, but he poorly executed this because Eren's arc felt very forced/unnatural.

TheSauceGuy

@randon name 123, I totally agree with you that we should've had more material. S4 crams four years into a single season and skips over much of the development that could've helped make certain character arcs/decisions feel more convincing. I also think the outside world is irrationally hateful as well, as in, is there really not a single world government besides the Azumabito that is willing to come to some sort of agreement? I understand the history of their world, but you'd think making an easy profit through a mutual partnership would be a bigger motivator than it is.

eve richards

is that the monkey from planet of the apes 💀 absolutely not hahaha

Abdulmajeed

But you guys didn’t discuss much we need more discussions

TheSauceGuy

Is your favorite Erwin's speech?

Levi's Teacup

I've thought about this too...instead of fixed timeline shenanigans, I'd like to think when Grisha finds out about Carla it pushes him to give the founder to Eren anyway

Levi's Teacup

hell yeah it keeps getting better the more you watch. no other story like it

TheSauceGuy

I think your only AoT takes that I disagree with are the ones regarding Eren (and your "hatred" for Zeke lol). I see everyone talk about how Eren did it to save his friends, and while I think that may have been the initial excuse he gave himself, I feel like it's clear that protecting his friends is not his actual reasoning. Even if it still is one of his motivators, by the time he enacts the Rumbling, it's certainly not his primary one. Eren's primary motive was to retaliate against the entire world because their existence denied him his childish notion of freedom. Eren could've easily saved his friends, and arguably the island's population, through other methods. Not only was his plan needlessly violent, but it was also incredibly traumatizing for his friends; I'm honestly surprised none of them killed themselves in the aftermath. Isayama always wanted to have the protagonist become the villain, and become a villain, Eren certainly does. Despite this, his arc feels forced and unnatural. I think Isayama wanted to wrap up the story and struggled with making some aspects of the story's closing chapters feel natural. I mean, he crammed four important years into a single season, instead of taking the time to more gradually progress through this part of the story. I also think the fact that SO MANY people have different interpretations of Eren shows that he wasn't as well fleshed out as he should've been. I'm not even sure Isayama himself fully understands Eren as a character. Maybe Isayama is simply the biggest troll to walk the planet hahaha. No author is perfect, and with incredibly complex stories, it's often difficult to wrap them up in a timely manner that ALSO feels natural. I mean, just look at George RR Martin and his A Song of Ice and Fire series; it's been almost fourteen years since he released his last book in the main series. I can't imagine the pressure Isayama felt while closing the story, but I'm still going to be objective about how I view the series' close.

TheSauceGuy

I think the only logical explanation besides the "fixed timeline" junk is that he simply gave up and foolishly entrusted Zeke to be able to stop Eren. Grisha didn't have that much time left, and he probably didn't want to leave his son with nothing. I wish we could've SEEN HIS PERSPECTIVE, though.

Levi's Teacup

right, he still made the decision to pass it down. So many questions left in a show that seemingly answers them all. This is the only anime I can get into, set the bar way too high from a writing perspective

Robert L

You can literally see pictures in the manga of king fritz contstructing the walls..

Robert L

Bro try reading the manga

Robert L

I am saying she is responsible for constructing ALL the titans not just the wall titans. While Fritz is the one MAKING the walls

Zu

Yeah a little bummed out about it ngl since I was hoping they'd give their thoughts on Grisha being able to see Zeke through Eren's POV and etc. but I think Carter said they were up late when they watched this. Still an amazing reaction like always though

❣️ Vladlena ❣️

Unfortunately discussion was too short and shallow considering that these are two almost the most important and insane episodes of the whole show. The previous discussions and reactions were great, but not this time. I’m a little bit disappointed, to be honest ☹️ And I say what I say: Eren didn’t change, he has been consistent since day one! Only the scale changed.

WhynefineT

because they were binging is straight I think.

Pudding

Oo I think they might enjoy those too

TheSauceGuy

A while back, I had an interesting analogy that kind of reflects how I feel about Eren's character arc in AoT, but I don't think I ever talked about it on the Patreon. If you've played or watched Baldur's Gate 3, you probably know about the Dark Urge as an Origin character. For those who haven't played the game, you should 100% give it a try, or maybe watch this brief background of the character for some context (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwdcW7Q6IiY). Also, shoutout to Protein and Caraxes (sorry, I forgot the names of Jack's devil paladin and McKay's bum ranger). The comparison that I wanted to make is that Eren's character arc in the show is kind of reminiscent of a Dark Urge run, where you don't actively do anything evil for the majority of the campaign, but then you switch up at the very end. While BG3 can still make what's happening in this scenario entertaining and emotional, it does feel like an unnatural progression at its core. I would say the same thing about how AoT handles Eren's progression, but unlike BG3, we don't have the freedom (unlike Eren lol) to simply change this aspect of the show.

TheSauceGuy

In terms of comparing plot points, here are some that popped into my head: 1. Both have had the unnatural ability and urge to harm/kill, even from a young age, but attempt to control themselves to help those around them. 2. Both have hesitated to kill those who have severely wronged them/attempted to kill them. 3. Both are infected with a parasite that gives them significant abilities, but the parasites are overall more of a curse than a blessing. 4. Both redirect their hatred to another source upon learning more about the world/themselves. 5. Both realize much of their hatred is irrational after spending time with/being around those they once desired to kill. 6. Both have dark visions of their future, and despite their realizations, they needlessly cling to them. 7. Both played a role in orchestrating the events of their own suffering. 8. Both use an unlikely ally as a tool to gain immense power, which they use for slaughter. 9. Both have most of the people closest to them condemn their "grand design" as needless, unacceptable, and evil. At the same time, they have both had others fight to ensure this plan is allowed to take place.

TheSauceGuy

It'd be one thing if we at least got the uploads faster. Just give me the next one PLEASE

jimmy john

It might feel unnatural because of how that "arc" wrapped up

Tivy

Really hope you guys had a deeper discussion off-camera because these episodes are some of the most complex and important in the entire series. They reframe so much of the story, and without fully unpacking them it’s easy to miss how much everything has shifted. Just hoping the girls were able to take it all in—things get even more layered from here!

Levi

Same here I was shocked there is no discussion or a reaction to the most important reveal. From my experience I think the girls has no idea what just happened with Eren and his father, its clearly obvious that they didn't get what Eren did in that specific memory

a_daichi

I mean I also agree with you as well.

Isiah Paul

This is Before brig left so they binged it, with all the others shows and anime their doing its valid. Just glad to see brig again

TheSauceGuy

One-eyed Erin having supernatural knowledge

Mike

I think Zeke's method for for ending the suffering of Eldians and the threat of titans was far more reasonable than Eren's. Eren seems to have at least 5 different conflicting motivations throughout season 4. Kinda hard to understand a main character that doesn't even know what they are fighting for. Especially when the main character kills off 80% of humanity and then when it comes time for them to explain why they did that, they just say "because i'm dumb haha".

Chrissy

I wish y’all asked some more questions to prompt a convo. Like how at this point in time how could the situation be handled. Like what choice does eren or anyone have, etc. obviously no one will have the answer, it’s impossible haha! But rather than just reacting, it would have been cool to see that discussion and the different takes on it. Reminding them that literally the entire world is their enemy, and how can this be solved. Some of my favorite discussions are about the rights and wrongs surrounding this choice!

studiogek

Thats a pretty bad way of explaining that

❣️ Vladlena ❣️

I get what they was confused and shocked, but boys should have paid more attention to these episodes!

❣️ Vladlena ❣️

I understand that they were in a hurry because of Brig but can’t help but felt upset. These episodes deserve better

John D. Acebes

I didn't even consider Odin connection

John D. Acebes

Now that you mentioned it, Gained knowledge, lost an eye, and starts the end of the world (Ragnarok) fulfilling a prophecy. Checks out

juryef

Eve and Bradlynn already having seen everything while watching their own past reactions and participating in the comments are just experiencing Eren's pov lmao

Ollie

Your Name would be great

Ollie

😭

Dani G

No, but it’s up there! Get up, dad would be my number one.

Leo

Hail Eren Jaeger

TheSauceGuy

I mean, Eren as a character in season 4 does not feel like a natural progression from the Eren we knew in seasons 1-3

Nami Swannn

I think it’s incredibly naive to think that any amount of power can change the fact that the world will never be a utopia. And that’s the whole point, regardless of what Eren or Zeke did, you can’t solve the problem that is human nature, only try to combat it by keeping the kids out the forest. “Love” and “Good” aren’t coping mechanisms, they’re fundamental parts of human nature, as are “Hate” and “Evil”. They can’t exist without one another. That doesn’t mean you mindlessly bank your whole future on them, but work towards them. Thats just how life is. Regardless of whether the world we live in was a utopia or not, having kids is an inherently selfish decision. I don't think anything we do is selfless in a way that even the unseen, honest act of altruism releases dopamine, and sometime that’s okay. That doesn’t make it bad, your argument hinges on the idea that existence is a net negative. That because there are bad qualities to life, it would be better to have not existed. But surely that same logic applies to good experiences. Matters like this are never black and white. Not to get personal, but I was born in war. My existence is proof of my peoples resilience and I’m proud to have been born, regardless of the fact that it was the act of my parents selfish desires for a child. Similar to what Eren said “Because I was born into this world”. No matter how unfair/cruel this world is, people still want to fight and prevail because they exist. Existence itself is a self-justifying reason for continued existence. Ofc my experiences don’t speak for everyone, but it’s dangerous to try and clearly label things like this when theyre issues of great nuance.

Sean Carroll

That is completely wrong sauce guy, that’s simply your interpretation

Sean Carroll

I bet Mike is 12 years old and doesn’t understand nuance

Mal

In fairness I don't think I would have a natural progression if I saw myself commiting mass genocide in the future either

TheSauceGuy

Think what you want, Eren simply gives up and submits to his visions, rather than putting in significant effort to fight them.

TheSauceGuy

@Mal I'm talking about the fact that it goes from 0-100 for shock value. There isn't much development as it's simply skipped right over. Most of seasons 1-3 take place over a few months, but season 4 skips over four years and doesn't give us very much of that massive chunk of time. The development we do get feels unnatural for Eren. He has always been one to fight for those he cares about, but he's not nihilistic or fatalistic. The Rumbling is not fighting for those he cares about; he ensures that the people he cares about (as well as himself) suffer by manipulating events in the Paths. His motivations and the way his character is portrayed are all over the place. Eren triggers the Rumbling in S4 purely for shock value and plot convenience. How can people say that his arc feels natural when there is barely any arc in the first place? And no, don't give me that garbage that Eren was "always the same" from the moment he was born, that's a narrative cop-out. We needed more material and motivators for Eren to enact the Rumbling. If you don't want this, then Eren would have to have been developed differently from the start. As it stands, it simply doesn't make sense for him as a character and reflects a failure on Isayama's part to craft a coherent and convincing arc for Eren by the time we reach Attack on Titan’s final season.

TheSauceGuy

I mean, does it show people building them, or is it Fritz using his power? If it's Fritz using his power, then that's the same as Ymir building them. His power is simply ordering Ymir to build the walls.

TheSauceGuy

I don't think exterminating the titans (that he later could've seemingly prevented from eating people anyway) is remotely comparable to pre-emptive genocide of the entire planet when the vast majority of them had little to nothing to do with your suffering. His killing of those kidnappers who killed Mikasa's parents and would've sex trafficked her also isn't comparable to that either. It feels like a huge jump for me, and I think it's safe to say that we'd have benefited from more material that could make this jump feel feasible.

Segen

Pls drop 3 today 😅😅

JC

drop 3

kiiturii

it wasn't just about exterminating the titans, it was stealing the freedom of his enemies before they can steal his. He wants to exterminate his enemies, not just the titans. That's why he says, "when I found out there were people outside the walls, I was disappointed." That's why he points at the horizon and says "if we kill our enemies on the other side of the ocean, will we finally be free?"

LowIQLifter

It is an extreme shift, but it all comes down to survival. Eren has said that he’ll take someone else’s survival before they could take his. The whole world wants to wipe out all of Paradis island , and Eren wants to survive. He even says in the paths with Armin, that this was the only possible outcome because he is an idiot and couldn’t think of any other way. Also, he literally couldn’t change anything. He even said time after time that every time he tries to change something, it stays the same. It is a closed loop and nothing can change, in the future that Eren saw in season 3 finale. A show called dark, has a quote that says, “A man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills.”

TheSauceGuy

But that's the thing, the whole world doesn't want to, and Eren is the one who ensured that much of the world sees HIM as a threat. Most of the world's population are not in the military either lol. Tybur's speech was one thing, but he decided to destroy a civilian city full of important people. There WERE plenty of other options to the Rumbling; I'm not disagreeing that Isayama portrays Eren as seemingly not being able to think of another way, but that this portrayal of Eren in the first place is unnatural in how it reduces his intelligence. His visions of the future are awful, and instead of truly fighting them like you'd imagine, he embraces them. When you say that it is a closed loop, it depends on what you mean. If you mean to say that the world of AoT is deterministic, then sure, but this removes Eren's agency. This scenario removes the emotional weight of his decision because he is simply following a script. If you're just saying that Eren's inner desire is what wills him to trigger the Rumbling, then again, it's a poor portrayal of Eren as a character. In my view, Isayama didn't write Eren in a way that would make that desire feel natural.

LowIQLifter

Sure the whole world, like individual civilians don’t necessarily want to take out paradis. But it was said by the Hizuru clan, that the “world” (probably meaning country leaders), want paradis to be root of all evil because it brings them together. I do think there were better options than what Eren did, like making it so Eldian’s couldn’t transform into titans anymore. And I don’t see why he couldn’t get rid of the 13 year rule, so he could live on, but he didn’t want to leave it up to chance. Eren was probably worried about being defenseless if he simply just eradicated the titans power all together without doing any sort of rumbling. I’m also not sure if Ymir would allow other outcomes to happen, because she had a role to play in all of this. It took Mikasa killing Eren for Ymir to finally let go. I do think Eren having only a few years left played a big part of why his plan was so extreme. Sorry if I’m not articulating this well, or missing stuff. I also haven’t read the manga.

TheSauceGuy

I'm not saying other alternatives would have been perfect, but Eren's plan ultimately failed. Sure, his friends lived (even though they probably shouldn't have lol), and that's about it. There were certainly alternative methods that would essentially guarantee his friends' survival. As for the outside world, Marley was mainly concerned with the resources on Paradis, while most other nations feared a potential Rumbling. By now, much of the world should know that King Fritz ended their subjugation, not some made-up Marleyan hero. From the start of S4, Eren did nothing but ensure the world's fears were warranted. The thing with Ymir "not allowing other outcomes to happen" is something we'll never know for certain. Even if she wouldn't, it was still Eren who expressed his desire to destroy the world, so we don't know if she could've been motivated by something else. Eren could've spoken with Zeke about alternatives as well, and I'm sure Zeke would have at least considered some of them. You're articulating things perfectly fine, but I also want to make it clear that I don't have a problem with Eren starting the Rumbling (outside of the moral qualms ofc); my issue is that the arc we are given in the show doesn't convince me that it's something he would so easily resort to. You also mention getting rid of the 13-year rule, which is interesting. Neither Eren nor Zeke seems to take full advantage of the Founder's power. This is another example of what I feel is plot convenience; if the Founder's power were much more limited, then things might be different.

JC

what time’s aot?

Nami Swannn

I 100% agree and I’ve said that about Eren’s writing for years. I think it’s a fault of removing him from the story for so long (with only a few glimpse into his mind here and there, but not nearly enough), and then giving us only one chapter/episode of introspection (and even then it wasn’t clear, such as the infamous line « only Ymir knows »). And to those who deny it was not the best, just look at how much of the dialogue they edited between the manga vs anime version of the Eren and Armin convo, that’s clearly proof of something 😭 It’s his first ever story and Eren’s character is just one that’s terribly hard to execute. I still give him props for everything he did accomplish through the series, but I don’t think it’s beyond criticism. But ya Eren himself said he didn’t even know if his friends would survive it, so I really don’t know why this take even exists and Armin even scolds him for suggesting that it’s for them.

val

Aot waiting room, I'm so hype dudeee

Jenu

bless me with a three epi drop

JC

where is it broo 💔😭

Hunter Snider

not sure what kind of Dark Urge run you've been doing but I am very much very evil the entire time lmao, there's no switch-up

Levi's Teacup

whats up sauce, i didn't read the full back and forth going on after your first comment. I agree that eren's season four character isn't a natural progression, I believe that's done on purpose. From the moment he kisses historia's hand...eren as we know him is basically gone. it's not natural but that doesn't mean it is bad writing, quite the opposite in my opinion. Also* you're the man sauce I love thinking about a show this deeply

TheSauceGuy

I was saying that's how it comes across. I saved on my first Durge run, which was a resistance one, to see all the endings. On my second, I did more of an intelligent resistance run where I'm still evil. Third run was murder hobo for daddy Bhaal.

Hunter Snider

yea I skipped those other options and have been strictly murder hobo lol, so there's been no left turn in characterization. I love my evil butler <3

Nyx

Yall need to react to spyx family

Taesbil

Episode 20 has some of the craziest voice acting. The Grisha monologue after he's massacred the Reiss family is so intense!