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4x20 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-03-18 01:46:50
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

We were literally GLUED to the screen. Like just absolutely floored. These episodes are just beyond me

Comments

Melizé

YESS LETS GOOO!!

Cheryl Toh

LETS GOOOOO SO EXCITED

Driscollis

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Aster

YESSIRR

Dony29

BEST EPISODE

farkzzy
>>104325656

This is all i’ve ever wanted. This episode specifically. i’ve been refreshing for 2 hours straight no stoppage. Everything came down to this moment and I did it.

nomorepartiezz

did you guys notice that whenever Grisha is in an episode its insane?? this is the peak of that. goated episode

Josh Ashford

Been looking forward to this one. That scene between zeke and grisha at the end honestly had me tearing up, amazing episode

Driscollis

ever since episode 1 I've been waiting for y'all to get here 😭

alexis Ramirez

This is one of the best episodes!!!!!!!

Centreon

This episode this plot twist it is the most perfect thing I’ve ever seen

farkzzy
>>104325656

you’ve got it all wrong. I made sure I had spare time. that’s how important this was to me

Bibi

some speculate that Eren told Isayama to write aot lol

farkzzy
>>104325656

the day I bought this patreon I envisioned this exact moment. 😤

DeludedDonut

is this the last one for tonight :)

bloartle

oh man this reaction is gonna be a banger im so excited

Haley

I’ve been waiting for this day. I got this Patreon just for this moment.

Spencer

Well looks like I'm fuckin donating. You boys are GOAT'd. Let me know where I can send some cash.

W3ll4n

Aot is my #1 piece of fiction ever. It is very endearing seeing you guys enjoy it so much ❤️

nomorepartiezz

this episode is also a huuugggee payoff for all the slow and annoying rod reiss stuff from season 3 part 1. it makes even the roughest part of the show a lot better in retrospect.

Megan Kirby

I remember being floored when I watched this. Absolutely wild.

Nextrackter

yeah you guys were right, pretty much what happened is that Grisha saw zeke and himself from the third person from eren's POV and when he hugged zeke he was hugging nothing, just where he saw that zeke was standing in the memory. Also, eren was able to see the memories that he sent grisha when he inherited grishas memories, pretty much sending himself the future as well

ssj4rit

Pretty sure they didn’t carry out the euthanasia plan in Marley because 1. Zeke didnt fully trust Eren at that point, evidenced by the baseball throw 2. If they come into contact all of Marley would become aware, atleast in S2 we saw the shifters were notified when the coordinate was unleashed d 3. The plan was to unify the world against Paradis, have them gather then unleash a partial rumbling to cripple them. They can’t do that without the Liberio attack, so they needed to wait.

Driscollis

clarification: Eren could not see everything. He could only see his own actions through Grisha's memories, so everything that Grisha glimpsed, Eren could see. But he is not omnipotent about his own future Edit: as per replies, he could see more than just the Grisha stuff but I still don't think he is omnipotent

nomorepartiezz

Eren and Zeke are only able to go through the memories due to using the power of the Founder and the Paths. Think of it like they’re in virtual reality replaying the movie of Grishas memories. Eren, as the Attack Titan, has the ability to send memories to his predecessors. So they’re not literally communicating in real time with Grisha. Eren is basically talking to the VR replay of his fathers memories but then sending that back to Grisha in that moment in order to affect him in real time. So all those times Grisha is freaking out its because he’s basically getting visions of himself in the third person from Erens POV. Hes like viewing his own perspective of what’s happening as well as Erens perspective in that VR world at the same time. If you notice the only time he’s able to directly talk to Zeke, is when Eren is in the distance looking at them. The physical contact/hugging and stuff probably isnt literally happening or is just fancy Paths magic

Cheryl Toh

so right after eren spoke to grisha there was a flash of the scene where eren was kissing historia's hand, this was from the last ep of season 3 where historia were presenting them with the medals and when eren kissed her hand, there was a yellow flash and he saw what he was about to do in the future (aka getting grisha to kill the reiss family, etc.) which was why he looked so distraught in that moment. in s3 all we got were flashes of the underground place but now we know!

sahme

is this the last upload for today/tonight?

BZD
>>104327044

This isn’t actually true. He can see his own memories of the future. It just so happened that for this episode they were specifically going through Grisha’s own memories.

CHIEF

Good point at the end I would just say remember the flashback of Grisha injecting Eren, he was acting completely nuts and revisiting it after this episode in particular is wild

nomorepartiezz
>>104325806

for real man. i cant imagine how happy brig mckay and jack are that they all finally got to this point. obviously the entire show is excellent but Season 4 in of itself is like its own thing

Driscollis
>>104327044

ah, ig this is true from what we see of Ramzi. But also, considering that Grisha says that he saw what Eren was gonna do, it could be that the Ramzi stuff was also something he showed Grisha

sahme
>>104326961

also they have to be within range of the walls to do the mini rumbling which was the trade: eldian’s vasectomy for mini rumbling so they don’t have the facilities/weaponry for a large scale attack on paradis

Driscollis

also MAJOR shout out to Carter for nailing the knowing the future prediction all the way back in like episode 1 or 2. God tier snipe

Moe King
>>104326961

I never understood what that baseball throw meant How does it show that Zeke doesn’t trust Eren?

Taylor

Eren wouldn't have been able complete his entire plan without the power of the warhammer titan, that is why he waited to carry out the rumbling until he returned to shiganshina. He also needed the world, and Marley, to hear Willy's speech as well as witness the Attack Titan eating him. It is all part of his master plan.

Zzz

I figured the reason Grisha went ahead and gave Eren the titan power after this scene was because he later found out Carla had died when the wall was destroyed. Right here Grisha does not know when the wall falls or if Carla is safe. In the Bystander episode Eren tells Grisha she got eaten and then we see Grisha make his decision telling Eren to avenge his mom.

nomorepartiezz

Zeke and Eren didnt touch yet because the euthanasia was only part of the plan. they still planned to do at least a partial rumbling to destroy the world’s militaries, because they needed to buy time to keep the world off their backs until they all slowly died out due to the euthanasia. this is why they had to wait to meet in Shiganshina where they could unleash the wall titans.

sahme
>>104327242

I was already sobbing from that episode!! 🤦‍♀️

PST3

From the discussion Zeke can't do the Euthanasia in Marley because at this time he still thinks Eren is the one who will have the power to do so. Also to gain Eren's trust he needs to destroy Marley's power, so Eldia can still live their last 100 years in peace.

Léanne Tremblay

i think jackson’s explanation of how eren made grisha kill the reiss family pretty much sums it up, and that’s how i understand it as well. grisha was able to interact with zeke and eren through the memories of those two revisiting his own memory, but they weren’t physically with him.

ssj4rit
>>104325656

Farkzzy 2 months ago getting a vision of him being first here: “whose memories are these?”

BZD

Remember, Zeke wouldn’t have had control of the founding titan back in Marley, it’s only because he spent the years in the Paths waiting for Eren that he renounced the vow.

BZD

Also, since Grisha knew that Eren had the attack titan in the future, he had to give it to him, because the timeline can’t be changed.

kev

2nd of the 3 highest rated consecutive episodes of AOT. 9.8, 9.9 and 9.9 all at least with at least 53k ratings. INSANE!

Brandon Cotterell
>>104327541

also the fact that him and everyone he cares about was in marley. they'd all get caught up in the rumbling

keyton bush

Eren is a slave to himself

HMK
>>104326961

I believe by Eren not catching the ball that shows that Eren is not going with Zeke's plan. That gave Zeke a hint about it which lead to him testing Eren by faking that he was chained.

H2KKI2

You cant end the uploads here, I need to see the next!!!

Miranda

I think Attack titans can saw glimpses, but not all memories, and maybe even not in chronological order. My theory is that they can see some "results", but not the whole process, like Eren knows that Sasha is going to die, but not how or shot by who. Eren saw lots of moments when he kissed Historia's hand, if you read the manga, it showed lots of fragments. There is even a small photo of the moment Zeke catching something which we know later is Eren's head.

Leon

Please tell me we are getting another one today, cant wait to see your guys reaction to the next few episodes.

tskjn
>>104327044

I agree tho. Like if he was omniscient, he wouldn't have been surprised by the little things like Marley attacking Shiganshina, or Grisha finding the King's HQ a bit earlier, or Falco becoming a titan? Imo he sees the destination, just not exactly how he gets there.

Ladnon

Soemthing I really like about the way you guys record is that at the end of every video it just cuts with no outro

Suzana

It's crazy that Grisha (mostly Eren) let Rod Reiss to live in order for Historia to become queen. So Eren then kisses her hand gaining access to those memories. Back in season 3, i thought it was so weird that only Rod survived the attack.

Jenny

Eren: wtf are daddy issues? just traumatize your dad back

Jacob Lamouche

Ep21 is my favorite of the whole show, so packed ! cant wait!!!

John MJ
>>104327044

You are incorrect my friend, the attack titan allows the user to see future inheritors memories NOT your own future memories. The only way he can see his own future is if he sends those memories to Grisha and then sees them through Grishas memories. The only other way he would be able to see his future is if someone inherits his titan after him and that person sends Erin memories of himself.

Jenny

Also, some dialogue that is important here is when Eren tells Grisha "Keep moving forward. Even when you die. Even after you die. After all, this is the story that you started." These words are the exact same words that the Owl said to Grisha to encourage/motivate him when Grisha was left feeling empty, and we the viewers are left feeling encouraged and motivated as well. Then Eren repeats these exact same words to guilt trip and force Grisha to kill the kids, we the viewers are left feeling horrified/shocked, which is a complete 180 flip. These couple of episodes are peak fiction. I personally think that Attack on Titan can be taught in literature classes with all its plot, parallels, foreshadowing (by both the story itself and the soundtrack as well), themes, character development, symbolism/imagery, etc. This show is so nuanced that essays upon essays can be written to dissect every single little piece of it. I'm so happy that you guys have caught up to it :D

Syam Haque
>>104326961

@Mhate they don't have to be within range, Eren could activate the rumbling from wherever in the world

aotant

Writer: eren Producer: eren Director: eren Villain: eren Hero : eren

Paul Coffield

It's been a while since I've seen this episode but with the Attack on Titan being able to see into the memories of it's future inheritors, Eren was able to use the Zeke and the power of the Founding Titan to peer into the future memories of Grisha and therefore his own future. He was then able to dictate what memories Grisha could and couldn't see and who to let live. He ordered Grisha to let Rod Reiss live to set in motion the events of Season 1 which ultimately led to Historia becoming Queen and the chronology to happen as he wanted it to.

Safety Tina
>>104328799

I understand the knowledge of the future not so much as something the characters can’t technically resist, but that it seems irresistible because the future is revealing the actions they WANTED to take. For example, in the beginning of the 1hr season 4 special, Eren knows he saves Ramzi in the future (from getting beat up) and initially seems like he will try to resist (maybe just to test the idea of “fate/destiny) but he realizes he doesn’t want to change that future, he WANTS to save Ramzi like he saved Mikasa in the past, even if he ends up murdering him later

Safety Tina
>>104327044

Damn, that means the memories he showed Grisha later on in the latter’s story weren’t even so much for his comfort/motivation, but just a cruel manipulation for future Eren to send messages to past/present Eren

John MJ
>>104328799

This is not true, the past can change. It’s a bit hard to explain so I’ll try my best. Aot is a multiverse, it has branches and different alternative endings. The reason Zeke says the past can’t change is because he knows that for his own future to exist the past had to have happen in a certain way. If grisha didn’t kill the royal family he would never be standing there with Erin in grishas memories. That being said after Erin took control of the founding titan he would be able to connect to all eldians even those in the past. This allowed him to effect the past to reach the most favorable outcome. Erin chooses what memories he sends allowing him to change the past but because this only takes place after he takes control of the founder and most of the show takes place before we never really get to see that the current timeline was crafted by future Erin. This also brings into question how much of the current branch was altered from the original timeline, how much of the past did Erin change to get here? If you want to understand this side of Aot a little better I would recommend you watch Lost Girls: Lost in The Cruel World. Also the reason Grisha gave Erin the titan powers is a hotly debated topic but in my opinion the best reasoning is that when he told Zeke to stop Erin he was not aware that Carla was dead. He still felt he has something to live for and protect. After finding Erin he discovered the truth and he felt he had nothing left. He had lost his first son to his own stupidity, he raised a monster, and the woman he loved was dead. At that moment he caved in and accepted what he believed was his fate.

Aloramor

They couldn’t do the euthanasia plan earlier because Eldia would’ve been defenseless against an attack from Marley. They needed to set up Historia’s heir to produce new royal Titans and work with the Founder, so that the threat of the Rumbling keeps Paradis safe until the Eldians naturally die out.

ChaosDragon

Grisha still gave Eren the titan for 3 reasons. 1. He only knows the future because he does that, if he doesn't nothing he saw exists and he can no longer see what he already saw. It creates a paradox(the same as going back in time to change the past does), he does it because he literally has no choice to, his path was set already. 2. His 13 years were up and he had to give it to somebody or doom EVERYBODY by letting the founder be lost to a random unborn baby. 3. Even though he wants Zeke to stop Eren, part of him does still want to believe Eren can and will save Eldia.

Jenny

Btw, the shot of Eren kissing Historia's hand tells us that Eren knew everything from that moment in Season 3, during the medal ceremony. Him touching Historia at that time was what triggered this and unlocked all the memories of the future that he has seen thus far. This is the exact scene that he saw at that moment, of him manipulating his dad and of the horrifying acts that he has yet to commit in the future in order to save the people that he loves. And now we know that his wide-eyed and grit teeth expression from that time is appropriate (in fact, he has crazy self-control to actually keep his composure during that time considering everything that he saw). This is why he was so sad when he saw the ocean for the first time. During his childhood, the ocean used to represent freedom, and he thought that whoever saw those sights outside the walls (snowy fields, sandy mountains, etc) would be the free-est person in the world. But once he saw his dad's memories of how Eldians are being treated, and future memories of what Eren himself had to do in order to save everyone, that's when his entire view of the world changed. That's why he was so sad when he was at the ocean for the first time, because it confirmed/solidified that everything in his dad's memories was fact. At that moment, the ocean stopped representing freedom. At that moment, the ocean represented yet another wall, and on the other side were enemies who Eren had to kill in order to protect his loved ones.

Agha

where's that next episode carter!?!?!

kiiturii
>>104332063

it's so funny how for 2 years straight now Eren has been nominated for both protagonist and antagonist of the year lmao

Jenny

Another popular theory is that Eren was influencing all the past Attack Titan users in order to force this moment to happen (the moment where Eren can finally control the founder). The Owl was saying "Every Attack Titan has always sought out freedom," and the theory is that it was always Eren telling them to seek out that freedom. It was always Eren manipulating them by sending back select memories in order to give them clues about what they should do, and thus influencing them because he is unique in holding both the Attack and Founding Titans at the same time. This means that Eren himself is the one who is in control of this story/mastermind behind the entire plot of Attack on Titan. He is literally the coordinate (where all paths connect) for all the previous Attack Titans, which makes his power absolutely terrifying to think about.

Julia Perez
>>104327846

Came here to comment this! In that scene in Bystander too you see him detach in a way that’s totally different than how he acts here. Carla’s death was definitely the push that made him okay with that much horror (similar to how Eren triggered him to violence with the mention of Fay, actually)

Julia Perez
>>104334095

I see people say this a lot, but beyond Grisha and a couple other characters just saying they have no choice, there’s not really any evidence that they have to do what the future shows them. Isayama’s notorious for having characters say things that seem true, when the truth is actually more nuanced, and it seems *very* odd - if he wanted to create a determinist timeline - to undercut Grisha’s “the future is already decided” with Grisha almost making a different choice. That’s a very deliberate story-telling move: it’s only when Grisha actually makes a choice that the timeline moves forward. I don’t think that’s something a writer like Isayama would do on accident

Megan Kirby

Eren saw the future when he kissed historia’s hand. He knew that his future self was going to convince his father to kill the founder and her family. He also told grisha to let rod go, because without rod they wouldn’t have found everything out. Also grisha didn’t know Carla died, so that’s why after he found out he said screw it and gave Eren the Titan.

rice

from what i understand, the attack titans power is not seeing memories from the future, but the power of eren sending memories back to grisha

Keneizha Rubanarayana
>>104334095

Well the way I understand it is grisha only did this because he thought it’s the only way to save eldia and his family. Then when he sees how horrifying the rumbling is he asks zeke to stop eren. Then he travels back to find his family, only to find out the walls fell and his wife died. I think that was a blow for grisha who finally got fed up and thought maybe eren’s plan really was the only way to save everyone. I don’t think he expected Carla to die and the walls to fall right away. Plus, as mentioned, grisha had a time limit and I doubt there was anyone else there he could trust the attack titan with

Megan Kirby

Also every time Eren stared at grisha, that’s when he sent him those memories. That’s why grisha headed straight for the founder. What’s also interesting is you can see grisha looking straight ahead in the manga in the first book. Isayame is a genius.

kkloyd

I think Eren and Zeke didnt do that euthanization earlier, because 1) they didnt know exact conditions, are they should be in titan form or human, do they need some training or someting, they were in marley and especially in that zone liberia, so it was really dangerous if you trying to keep it secret(like not so much comfortable place) 2) Eren wants first ensure that Paradise will be safe before that plan happens, so Zeke initially offer help from Hizuru country and wait for right conditions, i doubt Eren will agree in that exact moment and of course Zeke know that

ChaosDragon
>>104334095

Except he literally has no choice. If he uses his knowledge of the FACTUAL future events he was shown and acts in a manner that directly prevents those events from happening it creates a paradox. He would have changed reality and the visions of the future that influenced his decision would no longer exist, he would no longer know what Eren would do, and he would no longer have a reason NOT to do it. This would then cause him to entrust the power to his son again(as his son carries similar ideals to him) and it would once again ensure the future he originally saw. This loop would occur infinitely so long as he tried to go against the predetermined reality.

Otis Sado
>>104335654

Wrong the attack titan ability is to see future/past memories and event of it's inheritors

ssj4rit
>>104334782

In a way he masterminded the whole story, but also in a way he was only born to fulfill his role in this whole story. It’s kinda epic and sad in a way. He had to orchestrate his birth (by having Kruger tell Grisha to make a family in the walls), and from the moment he was born he was destined to a future already written for him.

Jacob Gronas

Something interesting I noticed in Season 3, when this scene is first shown, right before Grisha stabs himself with the scalpel, the frame cuts to black for a split second and then cuts to him stabbing his hand. Maybe this is what the scene cuts away from in that split second.

Gestrid
>>104326961

To add to this: they're in Liberio and wanted to destroy it. They probably didn't want to risk The Rumbling killing either of them by accident.

Sean Carroll
>>104326961

zeke throwing the ball to eren signifies a handshake but eren dropping the ball essentially shows him to refuse shaking zekes hand meaning he wasnt on board with the plan

Jacob Gronas
>>104336357

Like, he went to stab his hand, he dropped it. Then, when Eren convinced him, the frame was black. And finally the frame continued when he stabbed his hand

Sean Carroll

i always laugh when brig tries to come up with plotholes, the only plothole i believe is ow the colossal titan disappeared in episode 4 while in season 2 and 3 it disintegrates slowly

Jenny
>>104334782

That is exactly right. Essentially, Eren is a slave to his pursuit of freedom and his desire to save and give freedom to his loved ones. This goes back to one of the show's themes that everyone has to be a slave to something in order to function.

Jag_227

The "vow renouncing war" is really Karl Fritz himself, in a way. Living almost immortal effecting the future from the past. And Eren, possessing the FT and AT, is effecting the past from the future. The series is a battle of these two wills, in a way.

Jag_227

Grisha once said to Kruger, "It's pointless to make me recall my rage." Love that detail haha

A_Daddy Daichi

Wow this episode is so insanely good it’s crazy. When I realized that Eren had seen everything when he kissed Historia’s hand…. that shook me. The fact that Eren was carrying all of that with him for so long. When we first saw him at the sea in S3 finale, I was wondering why Eren looked so incredibly defeated. Incredible writing. It’s so funny to me when Eren realized why Zeke was taking him through his memories. He’s like boy I’ve been like this wym? 😂 I can’t wait for next episode! S4 is out of this world but ep 21 is one of my favorites.

__JMN

This episode made osk/you see power my favourite ost of the show. Just absolutely incredible use of the music. And "all the freedom" when grisha is despairing is just haunting.

__JMN

The dialogue leading in the underground cavern is just absolutely insane too. Eren raging listening to the conversation, Grisha interrupting the Frieda that he knows the attack Titan has never bowed to an authority and has the purpose of resisting self righteous kings and then Eren repeating the owles line about moving forward after you die is all peak writing

T. Law

Kids see ghosts while kid Eren sees his future self and his half brother.

T. Law

7:20 I'm dead 😭😂😂😂.

Kaelah

The way time was explained to me in regards to AOT, is to think of it as a line or as a loop. The past, present, and future basically all occur at the same time; everything that is happening has already happened and will happen.

rosa_gris

These last two episodes have just been Eren and Zeke pulling out uno reverse cards.

sesaka

The reason Grisha still gives Eren the power of the titans is because he wants him to avenge or find a way to bring back Carla. Another thing is that Eren is a master at manipulation and has done so with Grisha holding him at emotional gunpoint to get his preferred outcome. This is basically also why the Attack Titan is seen as being the embodiment of a rebellious titan against the kings will since everyone with the attack titan is being manipulated by Eren and his philosophy of "Tatakae" or "Fight" Furthermore the reason Zeke doesn't just go through with the Euthanasia plan yet is because he wants to convince Eren, his brother. He doesn't want to treat his brother like his father. They have infinite time in paths, so like zeke said. "No reason to rush"

rosa_gris
>>104339927

You’re right. The past influences the future. And vice versa. We think of time as linear but it’s more like a circle. Another series that explores causal loops and this kind of time travel is Netflix’s Dark. Highly recommend.

T. Law

Too late Grisha, you can't fix broken glasses.

rosa_gris

Grisha’s breakdown is one of my favourite moments in the show. The music and voice acting is *chefs kiss*. Maybe hot take but, Hiroshi Tsuchida (Grisha’s VA) should’ve been nominated for best voice acting performance over Yuki Kaji (Eren’s VA).

Kim
>>104327864

plus im pretty sure they waited for historia to have a child before making everyone sterile so they still have the threat of someone with royal blood inheriting the founder and activating the rumbling (yes they had historia herself but the younger the person the longer the expected remaining lifespan bc when the last person with royal blood dies the island doesn't have the rumbling to protect themselves with anymore)

Jaymi James

Was waiting for someone to mention about season 2's ending song being a major spoiler. I remember consistently skipping that ending particulary because it sounded like a cult hymn 😅😅

Jag_227
>>104340038

Furthermore, it was Zeke's love for his brother that led him to bring Eren into the memories. Which in turn, allowed Eren to overpower Zeke. It was his longing to be a savior for his brother that was his undoing. That was a result of the trauma of his childhood.

Jag_227

Why Grisha still gave Eren the FT... I imagine the thought process was something like when Reiner transformed in 2x6. "It's too late. I don't know what's right anymore. The only thing left is to see this through to the end. And fulfill my duty to the bitter end." Like everyone in this series, he was probably severely conflicted

Toff

this episode and twist is just crazy beyond belief

Bob

Great questions. I didn't know the answer to the "why didn't Zeke just touch Eren sooner and do the sterilization plan?" question until I re-watched the Zeke backstory episode in your videos. Kasava, Zeke's 2nd dad with the glasses, is the ultimate titan expert and everything Zeke knows starts with him. Kasava said that Zeke is only the key and the ability to use the founding titan rests with its holder. So, yes, Zeke could have done his plan back then, but he would have had to eat his little brother and that is like the only line he won't cross. He desperately wanted a family tie somewhere in his life. Also, it's fucking crazy we don't know the answer to this yet, we still don't know what Eren knows about the future. All titan shifters can see some memories of their past users, but only the Attack titan can see future memories. So if Eren sees ANY memories of the future that aren't from past attack titan holders seeing Eren's memories then that means there is another attack titan after Eren. We don't know if there is. It's really crazy. God damnit I love this show. It's not perfect, but nothing is. The love of your life won't be perfect, but it doesn't mean you don't love them with all your heart. Which is how I feel about this show.

Bob
>>104339927

Arrival does this too. I literally cannot wrap my head around time being a loop, but humans aren't built that way. We don't live in the 4th dimension, or however you want to label the ability to experience time in its full state. But there is enough evidence to suggest that the idea of time as a loop, with everything happening at once, is a possibility. It breaks my brain to even try to rationalize how that works. But so does a lot of high end metaphysics.

Bob
>>104343985

That's my thinking too. He already killed the little Reiss kids. If he doesn't give Eren the titan then his own kid won't survive. It's also... well... the central ironic theme of the show. The attack titan is a slave to its future self. You cannot change what has already happened, it's not that kind of B-movie scifi. Even if Greisha wanted to not do it, there is some kind of deterministic power at play in attack titan holders. They have to do what they have seen in future memories, because it's a memory, it's already happened. It's weird, but it does make sense and is a devastating plot point for Eren, who has always valued freedom above anything.

Gaby Rangel

since there was confusion, Grisha can see Zeke at those times because he’s seeing Zeke through Eren’s POV. So Eren’s POV is him watching his dads memories WITH Zeke there. You noticed that Eren was behind Grisha all the time & in front of them was Zeke.

Sifu Alberto Gaytán Martínez
>>104343985

Also don't forget that, he didn't know, if Carla was alive, and many things more. When he personally saw the destruction the state of the humanity at that moment, an he knew that Carla was eaten, the state of shock and even the possible idea of believing that if he passes down the attack titan in that moment can change the future / visions that he saw in any way, thus paving the path to those precise future events.

Zain Ali

Pretty much what Eren saw when he kissed Christas hand was Grishas memory of Erens memories that he showed to Grisha (whatever made Grisha so scared) + Eren convincing Grisha to kill the family.

Jeffrey

I was partially spoiled on this plot twist reveal, though I put most of the blame on me, ugh another one of those YouTube comments... It kind of ruined the reveal because I couldn't stop myself of thinking of many different ways Eren had "manipulated" Grisha. That was the line: Eren manipulated Grisha. This is the third time in the show we're brought back to the scene where Grisha kills Reiss' family and steals the Founding titan and each and every time we discover something new. At first we're shown that Grisha wanted to steal the Founding titan for his own selfish reasons. Then the next we're shown that Grisha had pleaded with the Frieda to stop the attack to protect his wife and family and many others. And finally we're here, where we learn it was Eren's doing all along.

Gnani

First time Grisha saw Zeke. It was attack titan through Eren that is enabling it. I think Eren intentionally pulled Zeke out of that to prevent him trying to figure things out. While Eren leant he can manipulate the past due to the presence of the Founder.

ChrisBrah-4

Theres a lot of concepts that go into this whole “memories of the future” thing and alot of people assume time travel (me being one of them) since whether you like to hear it or not, 19 year old eren (present eren) is influencing his father, a man who no longer exists in the present, therefore they r technically influencing or rather “changing” the past. Except that’s how it goes in my head at least. And my question is: how did eren get the attack titan and founder at the start of the show when we just saw him influence his father into taking the reiss family. How did anything that was affected by the massacre at the reiss chapel happen before this event from this episode? I’ve heard answers saying that the timeline is fixed and that everything is set in motion from the very beginning but i still cant wrap my head around that logic after thinking about what i thought at first.

ChrisBrah-4
>>104343759

All of this ties back to the very first episode of the show. Episode 1 called “to you 2000 years in the future” and the next episode after this one “from you 2000 years ago”

Caspar

Man, Grisha's VA is such a goat. The end of the episode gets me everytime.

humbleandkindness

maybe I’m just stupid like that but could someone explain how grisha was able to hug zeke I still don’t understand how that works

seamus4ever
>>104343985

I also think Grisha was nearing the end of his 13-year lifespan as the Attack Titan, so he had to give his powers to Eren.

Sya
>>104408484

I think a simple way to break down how it works is to see it as something like the invisibility cloak from Harry Potter(and also without being able to hear Zeke) if Grisha doesn't get access to Eren's POV looking at Zeke. Zeke is physically there, and when Grisha is able to see him via Eren(invisibility cloak gets unveiled), he can also touch Zeke at that time.

gimrick
>>104408484

Grisha could only see Zeke through Eren's point of view (from behind him), so he wasn't actually physically hugging him, I don't think. I've seen others online say that he was just hugging the air, essentially, but it's depicted like a physical hug for emotional effect. Grisha would've certainly felt the emotion and weight of the moment with Zeke, but Zeke wasn't physically there. It's strange time/memory stuff so things get a little wack hahaha

Sya
>>104408484

Yeah mine was just one of the many assumptions I had which I think could be possible. If Zeke was physically there, it could also be an interesting reason why Eren just ended the trip right there because Grisha had the Founding Titan then, and Eren might've also wanted to prevent them being in contact before they realise it. And of course it could be that Zeke isn't actually physically there, too. :) I do think that it can be seen as an emotional depiction as well.

gimrick
>>104408484

I like your analogy about the invisibility cloak! It's definitely a crazy concept so there's many ways you could approach it :)

Taylor

Eren knew that a lot of this was going to happen. Before the final battle in Shiganshina, Eren told them to "bring the girl that killed Sasha." (After he told Miakasa that he hated her.) So, he knew that he needed Gabi to be there to shoot him. Also, right before Zeke screamed to turn the titans, Eren reached toward him and said "Wait!", then Colt and Falco showed up and tried to convince Zeke to hold off on screaming. (Those turn of events lead to Falco being changed, then inheriting the jaw titan, which is also something Eren wanted to happen. If Eren hadn't told him to wait, Falco would have been changed too early for Galliard to muster up the strength to stand and stumble his way over to be eaten, and then Reiner might have undone his hardening and let Falco eat him instead, but then Galliard would have died anyway sinc ehe was too wounded and without the energy to heal all the way.) He made sure that EVERYTHING went the way it needed to go, the exact way that he saw it happen, for his master plan to come to fruition. The creator of AOT is a genius.

Unika Ang

The last thing Grisha said when he gave the power of the attack titan to Eren was revenge for your mother. I think this is why he clearly wanted Zeke to stop Eren in this episode, but later gave the titan power to Eren. On his way home he realized that today is the day the wall was destroyed, and he finally learned that what the future Eren did not tell him was that his wife was eaten by a titan.

Unika Ang
>>104458104

*Spoiler warning. In fact this reason is important because it leads to the choices that Eren makes afterwards that are difficult for most people to accept.

ohski

So, in case you haven't already gotten this answer.. Eren only knew what Grisha was shown.. Grisha was shown a certain portion of memories by Eren. Those memories include the day the wall fell and some of the Rumbling..... THEN, when Eren kissed Historia's hand, he received Grisha's memories. Because Grisha was shown memories from the future (rumbling), Eren then ALSO saw the Rumbling happening. So, when Eren kissed her hand, he then saw that he was going to start the Rumbling.. And because it was a memory of something that happened, it is set in stone that it will happen, because its a literal memory of an event. Its not a vision.. BUT Eren hopes that it IS a vision, so he spends his days trying to prevent it from happening. But, everything he does to try to stop the vision, always leads to the same conclusion.. And thus.. Here we are.. The memory he sent his father has finally caught up to him. So no, Eren and Grisha do not know the entire future.. Eren only knows what Grisha knows.. And Grisha only knows that Eren begins the Rumbling... So, no matter what happens between Point A (Hand kiss) and Point B (Rumbling), Eren knows he cannot die and he knows that he will begin the Rumbling. He does not know if his friends will live or die (i.e Sasha).

Seb
>>104479799

I like this but are you sure Eren was not shown more when he kissed Historia’s hand? How do you know it’s only the initial attack on Shiganshina and the rumbling?

ohski
>>104479799

It's entirely possible that Eren knows more than what I described. But it is never explicitly stated. The most we know is that Grisha knows about the rumbling and the walls getting broken into. So, we also know that Eren knows this information too via the kiss. We don't know what else Eren showed Grisha. BUT, the only reason Eren saw the future memories is because Grisha saw them. Eren was never sent memories of his own, it's only through Grisha that he "sees the future".. So, unless Eren showed Grisha even more stuff, we can assume that's all Eren has seen... He definitely is not omniscient and cannot just see anything into the future.

Wulfheart

And now you saw the plot twist that broke the internet haha I still can't believe Carter guessed it after like the first 8 episodes even if it wasn't for the right reasons.

Alexa

Gosh I cried like a baby watching this again. Specifically when Grisha hugged Zeke and apologized. Literally heartbreaking

Areeb Husain
>>104401531

Yeah... it's a hard concept to really get your head around. Even though I accept it, still I have questions. hahaha. There is something you can read up on Determinism. And then also look at determinism theory in time travel. I think it's the best way you can kind of understand what this story tries to show. That no matter what information you may have, the future is set. So in the present you have free will, but it's also an illusion if you look at the past from the future. It basically kind of says that you may have opinions, but there is truly only one way you'll actually react, no matter if you want to or not. Trying to say it in a simple way, I may think that killing is bad and peace if good... but in the end, the kind of person I am, I am going to kill the person who hurts my loved ones. NOW, Determinism in terms of TIME TRAVEL, it becomes a bit more complex. So again in a way that I can put it more simply, because there is a specific future, you can't change the past even if you want to, because it'll create a paradox. If you know you'll do something bad, and try to change it, it'll become paradoxical, because the only reason you wanna change the past/present is because of the knowledge of the future. So if you work to change the future, then that means you never had the reason to really change anything in the past/present. So that creates a Deterministic Future.

Usaid Munir

I'll try to keep this as simple as I can. Eren did not travel back in time. He did not exist physically in that scene we saw. Neither did Zeke when Grisha hugged him. Grisha saw memories of Eren's future due to the Attack Titan. And in that future, Eren also sees Grisha's memories with Zeke as we just saw. When Eren sees Grisha backing out, he gets passed af and uses the same lines said by Kruger to convince Grisha to kill them all. Summary: Grisha (at the exact moment when he failed to kill the royals) sees Eren looking into his own memories and being disgusted that Grisha is unwilling to restore Eldia. Sees him repeating Kruger's words and knows that this is what he has to do. He sees all this from Eren' POV. Eren is standing behind Grisha in his study when he notices Zeke the first time. So despite him not looking up, he knows there's a bearded man staring at him. Looks up instantly but finds nothing. When Grisha comes out after the Royal Rumble (pun Intended), once again Eren is standing behind him, so he again sees (from erens pov) that there's there's bearded old zeke standing in front of him. Only this time, eren let's him see those memories a while longer. So while zeke isn't physically there, Grisha still knows exactly where Zeke is standing and grisha then pours out his heart to him. It was more of an abstract hug, with two realities occurring almost 12 years apart yet still at the same time . Without actual time travel, AOT managed to convey messages across undefined time periods. Truly a masterpiece.

ahsankamal

great reaction guys!! binging it all rn

Drake Kachnic

Eren let Zeke think he had the upper hand so that Zeke would show him Grishaws memories then Eren could force Grisha to kill the royal family. Eren and Zeke didnt enact the plan in Marley because Marley could then just walk into Paradis and nuke them. They waited so that Paradis could develop tech to protect themselves + live better lives.

roczilla_2000

I think the most interesting thing about this is that Zeke decided to show Grisha's memories with Eren, but Eren literally ate him, so he's already seen them😂

BoredVoid

Eren and Zeke didn't touch back in Marley because they needed to provoke the world into forming an army to attack them so that they'd be in a concentrated place for a limited Rumbling to destroy the world's military forces in order to allow them the time of peace for the remaining Eldians to age out in the Euthanization plan.

Anexo Mej
>>104533537

IKRR i got so shocked and scared bc he predicted this MAYOR plot-twist from so early on😭 what a god

Macy Bokhari
>>104431894

Agree with most of this up until Eren screaming wait. Eren is still in Titan form when we the audience hear him say "Wait" - so no one outside of us actually heard Eren say this, definitely not Zeke. Eren in titan form doesn't speak - he can scream, grunt, etc, but never speaks like Cart and Jaw can. He has to leave the Titan form like in Liberio to talk. I think that moment was there to make sure the audience knows Eren isn't on board with Zeke. We got a hint he wasn't when Zeke throws Eren the baseball and Eren fails to catch it.

cirillabeebooks

I'm finally catching up with the reactions, I am so happy right now!! ♡🥹

Bryce Jones

What a great way to do time travel. Peak storytelling.