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[PUBLIC EPISODE] The Wizard, the Witch and the Wild One: ep032 "The Vote" (Patreon)

Published:
2024-07-30 11:01:55
Edited:
2024-09-20 01:41:59
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

The defense makes its closing arguments. The pillars of Umora shake beneath the firmament. A guest speaker makes a short presentation. Weird. Feels like we've been here before.

Catch the public feed to hear the episode with these links, or anywhere you get your podcasts:

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YouTube (in a few days)

We recommend listening to Worlds Beyond Number (and the Fireside Feed) on a "podcatching" app like Overcast or Pocket Casts. We opposite-of-recommend listening on Youtube Music, which is bad. For more help getting the right audio in the right place, check out our friendly instruction guide.

We are

Brennan Lee Mulligan

Erika Ishii

Aabria Iyengar

Lou Wilson

Produced, designed, and scored by Taylor Moore  at Fortunate Horse with exquisite design and editing help from Jared Olson.

SPECIAL THANKS TO: Tazer Army, Shannon, and Amanda Freberg.

Album art by the great Corey Brickley

Files

Comments

Aesthetic Pest

REFRESHING SPOTIFY LIKE CRAZYYYYYYYYYYY LETS GOOOOOOO

Simon

Yeahhhhh I’m gonna freak out

lunarsummer

Me reading the title in the fox's voice: MY VOTE!

Sven the Scribe

The Fox is your dad and he's proud of you.

Zengief

Just remember, this has all been one day and they haven't slept yet.

Helen Tunbridge

"When you've got friends, you've got everything" bound for a new tattoo, to be sure.

Clockworkjohnny

"don't you see? You were next" had such a powerful mark Hamill joker vibe. Holy shit! That whole scene was amazing!

Glen Petrofski

So much internal squealing with this episode

Kevin Litfin

Absolutely criminal that the ep title wasn't "A Ripe Tale of Bitches"

Jack Francis West

No other podcast makes me literally clap my hands, scream, gasp, punch the air and laugh out loud help

Jack Francis West

Ohhhh Ame don’t end Indri like that yepppp☝️😋😋😋😋😋

Sil

I full on "OH!" hollered in that way that you "Oh!" at a football match in this country 🇦🇺 when Hakea cackles "They weren't going to let the coven fall, you were next," and Taylor's full freaky score just... unhh, MINT

MagnaniMel

Never a dull day at WitchCon! I love it!!

C. A. Whyse

Holy shit, what a hefty episode! Absolute elation for Ame... deep, unsettling horror at what comes after.

Glen Petrofski

Huh! I knew Indri wanted a coven of one

Josie

Wuh woh can’t believe the citadel is in fact the bad guys for real this time! Anyway I’ve decided I love Mirara now. She needs better friends.

C. A. Whyse

Anything military coded feels sinister to me. I feel vindicated XD

Ratchet Intellectual

Suvi going “yeah another one” was so perfect I love her instinct to lowkey square up

The jowler

God I actually think Hakea might be one of my favourite characters that Brennan has made. She has the perfect blend of silly goofy as well as the somewhat terrifying sense that u get from something that is so so old. Also Brennan has a great cackle lol

Astrid

"I can't wait to see which way you go" 🤣🤣

Amaya

Hakea is the original funny bitch because the absolute whiplash from the sinister "you were next" to "you're literally older than most of the dirt on our world" had me choking on my tea 😂

Michelle Spurgeon

As a non-tea drinker, "this is the only tea I consume" gave me a new motto

Genna

"she wants you dead, and does not raise her hand" AME ABSOLUTELY CRUSHED

Astrid

Yeah, I guessed that one too

Amaya

It's also really interesting to see the payoff of the Citadel being Bad™ because it could only have come after the Citadel Arc. Like obviously the military industrial complex that quite literally changed the ecosystem of the world is bad but we wouldn't get the complexity of seeing the trio delight in the wonders and slice of life of the Citadel if they know everything unethical beforehand. The capture of Naram was horrifying but we get to see Steel explain that away as the rogue actions of an extremist faction but Suvi herself points out that Steel's opinion of Honored Friends is unique to her (and Suvi's parents) as trusted friends of Grandma Wren. Really driving home the ACAB point showing even if some top people in power aren't the absolute worst, the system is still corrupt. Shoutout to Tephmet for pointing out that they can't be certain if the movements they're mapping are the actions of a wholly unified purpose but are troubling and significant enough nonetheless

Bored Today

I’m excited to see how Ame presents this back to Suvi next episode, because this is a multi-level depth of corruption. This cleanup and destruction of the machine wasn’t carried out properly meaning someone is undermining Steel. Also it can’t be a coincidence that there was powerful conjugation and abjuration present which are the schools of magic Suvi’s parents were from. Maybe those are the best schools in terms of exploring the near spirit but the extremism took it too far

Maggie M

Who let all these bad bitches into one room. Hakea? Was that you? Girl you sure know how to cook.

Maggie M

Hakea choosing a new companion based on an herb bundle is 100% a silent virtue singal that she is on the side of the World's Heart. The intersection of the bounty of her world with the craftsmanship and utility of the human world.

Sean Endress

No wait what's Ame's skincare routine

Eagledink

I am a sky apologist. Go team wizard.

Sil

Ame, you be a smart, imminent multiclasser and hold those favours on long enough that invoking them kills Mirara/Indri off like a rat with a silver hand from a franchise I won't besmirch this space naming.

Chris Caran

I can't believe this keeps getting better and better. Unbelievable storytelling.

Amaya

I'm viewing it more as a large enough faction is behaving badly. From what we know, it doesn't take a crazy number of wizards to drastically mess things up, like Morrow capturing Naram. I feel like it'd be especially cruel to Suvi to put her in a circumstance where everyone she trusts feels the Citadel, her home, needs to be destroyed

Tommy Deibel

"When you've got friends, you've got everything!"

Amaya

Like it's Bad™ in the sense that no empire can be wholly good because it's impossible for unanimity and for everyone to have fully ethical intentions when the foundation of the Citadel is the acquisition of knowledge and by extension power through understanding and control. Not inherently bad but very susceptible to warping

Thought Thief pod

I’m at the beach. On vacation. With my family…and just like that the only thing I can think of is WitchCon in the North Pole

Shannon Brooks

The fox’s second vote moment is EVERYTHING 🥹🥹🥹🥹

Erin

“Can we not then take a break, sister?” IN MY RIGHT EAR LIKE SHE WAS OVER MY SHOULDER. CHILLS.

Emily C

OH SHIT Amie seriously winning so many people over The witch (bitch) fight between Mirara figuring out the true plan Erika's fucking BOSS rolls OMG they are on fire Mirara and The Man in Black???? Ok???? So much lore about the war and some of the true purposes of the citadel, seeking to kind of tame, and colonize? The world of spirits. Definitely confirmed a lot of suspicions I had about the Citadel and it's need for control. The lenses!!! - for those who needed a recap regarding the discs, EP 8 about 1:26:00 in to the ep. Do we think Steel lied about knowing what Morrow was doing??

worldsbeyondnumber

No, it works very well. Not ideal because its success weakens the widespread adoption of direct-to-listener RSS (an open and free protocol), but it does actually work dependably. Could destroy podcasting as a populist medium, but it does work. -t

Connor

Just started but the subtle ways to indicate how much stronger Ame’s position is now versus at the beginning if the arc is absolutely staggering me. You can feel how much safer Ame is without it needing to be stated because of the connections she has made and it’s peak storytelling

Dream Wizard Kyle Arca

Oh geez. Okay, well, I'll use something else for podcasts. I don't wanna contribute to the destruction of podcasts. 😅

Morgana Evenstar

I KNEW IT! I KNEW THOSE PRISSY IVORY TOWER FUCKERS WERE UP TO NO GOOD! Even with magic, no one gets resource like that without getting ENTHUSIASTICALLY in bed with bad shit. They aren't just goose-steppers in bed with a fascist dictatorship, they are themselves magical colonizers!

Blades Dragonic

Omg this episode was amazing. Ame literally killing with kindness in that meeting 😭

Iridium

If Tefmet was hastily removing things that can potentially be traced back to any person... my guy, it'd have been incredibly careless to leave things like that in there At All.

Iridium

Ame out there demonstrating how necessary her presence is on the team, as The One In Charge of Teamwork lolll Also jumping in the air to stomp on Indri's nerves the Second after bailing her out xDDDDD

Issy (the Wizard Scramble)

I think steel didnt know morrow was using those resources but that doesn't mean she wasn't herself But also I think most parents hide things from their kids whenbthey see it to be necessary

Nick

So to recap: the citadel has tried to summon an angry great one into enemy territory (making them experience what they did with Orima's fury), has made homegrown spirits (like vandal or the Tamori but worse), and now the witches have evidence of what happened to port talon. Ohhhh boy

Kate Reeves

Definitely had flashbacks to fraught nonprofit board meetings. 😂

Warlock

Bro1: "I found meat!" 🍖 Bro2: "What!?" 🤩

mguin

Knew it - Morrow wanted to show he could roll with the Citadel & do the same thing cheaper/faster/likelier to explode

mguin

Also: imagine being Sly in this scenario. "I am trying to keep you from blowing yourselves up, you unethical wingdings! Let me misappropriate funds for it!"

Elizabeth U

I instantly saw her with the big puffy headband and a Korean sheet mask with a panda face on it.

Erin

My jaw is on the floor. I need to immediately listen to this episode again. AMAZING. The talent and skill you all process is overwhelming.

Franco Muscellini

Maybe it's because the wizards feel the most our world kind of human. And knowing the world you know how easy is to jump to Evil for some people. Spirits and Witches get a "pass" because who knows how/why they act the way they do. Even Brennan said so about Indri, she is so alíen to Ame that she could have said "yes, I'm plan planning your demise, I'm terribly sorry" and it wouldn't even be rude

Yarl

Best episode so far I am dead yet also brought to life and this is one of the best chapters of storytelling I have ever consumed 😭

Franco Muscellini

No Brennan is better than old lady Brennan. I'm 100% convinced of this. I just finished A county affaire and there my position was made sure

Jade_Jerichooo

As vindicated as I am having there be some undeniable proof of the citadel's imperial sketchiness, I'm stressed at the second riff this might cause between Sky and Ame due to personal ethics and ego. ;;

Jess

We’re going to find out one day that Suvi’s parents were secretly antivalists. The most interesting thing will be how much does/did Steel know and how much has she kept from Suvi. The money and oversight/influence the citadel wizards agreed to (vs the antivalists values of open knowledge) has allowed for a corruption. The question is, how many good people are existing in a bad system without full knowledge of its actions and how many passively or actively supporting it knowingly.

The Wizard Spring

“So messy that it’s almost magically dangerous” will be in my vocabulary forever

ceeg

Never have I felt so compelled by a new piece of world building that I immediately decide, “oh if I lived in that world I would work at the fucking library”

Amber Prophet

My favourite episode yet and that's saying something! My God the drama of this episode!

Dezzi

I feel like we didn't talk enough about Mirara "consorting" with the Man in Black and I'd looooove to get a handbook on how she bagged that baddie for Prosperity! ❤️

Michael Munene

My goodness! The twists and turns this episode took have me reeling from the narrative whiplash! Brennan! You Mad Man!!

Follow the Fox

Absolutely my fav episode so far, which is saying something! Ame fucking killed the vote scene. Gah!!

lxwles

I thought this too!! When Tefmet spoke I was reminded of when Suvi's mom made a HUGE DEAL about the Citadel something like breaking the code against magic itself??

lxwles

My hope is that they talk about it and Suvi is reminded of when her mom was almost kicked out of the Citadel. I wouldn't be surprised if she was secretly working with (or started??) Tefmet's library

lxwles

OHHHHHH I didn't understand why they mentioned Sly until I saw this, thank you

Brandon Carbaugh

Indri. My guy. You chose a democratic conclave to come for the throat of the witch whose power is MAKING FRIENDS. You gotta get your act together. You gotta learn to whip votes. You need a chief of staff, you're slipping.

mguin

I imagine this prophecy is a lot like his others - he's putting out fires that few people expect to ever exist. Makes me worry A LOT that Steel said "oh, it's taken care of" about him to Suvi.

ceeg

I’m empathetic towards Tefmets position in that moment bc like Ame, it’s their first time doing this!!! They have no idea how freaky these bitches are

Jade_Jerichooo

Same here! As much as I LIVE for some complex character drama, I'll be in pain if it's one of those miscommunication tropes where I'm screaming at my phone for the besties to just talk it ooout

Witch of the Wandering Thought

Wow. Wowowow. I’m so glad Brennan was able to become a professional story teller. Seriously, his brain is a magic creating machine.

rocket-flash

The Coven of Elders doesn't really allow the individuals within it to hoard any more power than they would have as individuals, since it doesn't prevent any other covens from forming or other witches from existing. If anything, it limits the power of some of the most powerful witches in the world because they have to come to some sort of agreement all together in order to enact retribution as a group. Not to say they don't kind of suck, but in a slightly more democratic way than an empire seeking to control the human and spirit world. I think a lot of people (me included) hold the same amount of respect/distrust for Steel as they do for any of the witches individually, but I'm reticent to sympathize with any large institution where the people controlling the majority resources have more information and more to gain than the people at the bottom. The witches domains are different because the individual entities within them them are not beholden to the witches for their livelihood or information about the world in the same way the citadels' wizards are. There's also something refreshing about the way even the most scary witches are direct in their hatred or distrust of humans, where the citadel couches their secrecy and imperialism as "what's best for humanity" while continuously exploiting the people that serve as its base.

rocket-flash

Sorry that was a really long ramble, this story makes me think a lot and I'm glad that people have a lot of different takes on the citadel because it makes things interesting!

rocket-flash

This episode had a lot of fist pumping and clapping for our crew's success!! ALSO, I think it's poignient how Suvi had a more difficult time being cold/angry at Tephmet (sp?) because she stayed up protecting her friends! 😊 I hope maybe they discuss how much of the burned notes actually got said because Suvi left the room, and if those ice fairies were in fact up to no good the night before the vote in the Fireside! 👀

Faith Price

Someone get Mirara a kitty cat mug of tea, please!

Beldaran

I'm so in love with the slapfight scene, and nauseous about how the presentation will impact the relationship between Ame and Suvi.

Shelby Welby

We knew at one point Suvi would have to reckon with the fact that the Citadel are a bunch of baddies.

Haepenny Works

Ame’s defense had my heart pounding, what an amazing episode

sylvie

dang. he gives that sword to EVERYONE

elijah

What an amazing episode

FooldiverDX

I am once again humbled by my inexperience as a DM and storyteller, I was so sure this was going to end in a giant battle

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

THIS IS MY THEORY AS WELL!! Suvi being reassured by Steel that Morrow was an outlier now has me sick to my stomach. holding out a feeble hope that there is someone else responsible for these forays into the spirit (especially with Brennan’s penchant for creating complex political structures 😅)… but it could very easily fall under the purview of the Sword of the Citadel 😫 BRENNAN I LOVE STEEL YOU CAN’T DO THIS 😤😭

Alex

As an outsider, it would be very easy for them to conflate the Citadel’s work with the work of the Imperial Wizards. I wonder if everything he’s presenting is fallout from Morrow’s ambition and Tefmet doesn’t know where the responsibility lies.

Sil

Taylor... 38:15, is that the music for impending Orima destruction!? 😵

Ray

Love listening to Brennan argue with himself lol

JB

How insane would Tefmet’s speech about the intermingling of the spirits and humans been if they’d just destroyed the WotWH lmao

Adarsh Nednur

It's truly so funny to try to conspire to kill the Witch of Working Together and fail because you can't work together well enough to conspire against her, it's downright poetic

Gothic Faerie

devestating Mary Bennet vibes from Mirara this episode 😔

Brandon Carbaugh

He walked up and was like "Hey girl, I noticed your terrible shapelessness from across the room. I love your dimensionless black habit and inscrutable mask. I'm trying a thing right now where my hat brim and high collar obscure my face in shadow. You wanna whisper bone-chilling secrets to each other and make out in the dark?"

Brandon Carbaugh

She really said "This is a council of 5; a conspiracy of 2 should cover me, right? Yeah... Yeah, I'm good."

AVeryCleanGoblin

Best episode yet, to have the opportunity to watch the greatest table top story ever performed unfold is one of the greatest fortunes in my life.

Adarsh Nednur

I need to point out specifically how BALLSY of a move Ame giving Indri that out is. The whole coven had torn each other apart and were at each other's throats, the destabilized vibes meant nobody was steering the ship, Mirara was certainly already going to vote against killing Ame at that point after realizing she was next, Hakea was probably going to vote against it too on principle, so Ame was probably safe already. And then she LETS INDRI OFF THE HOOK by saying, "Hey, Mirara, maybe Indri had a different plan and wasn't going to kill you," thereby giving Mirara a potential reason to, once again, vote to kill Ame. Ame could truly have fucked herself over so badly there if things has gone poorly, with Indri and Mirara and Gramore going back to voting to kill her. But Ame really put her money where her mouth is; even though it was dangerous for her, she gave Indri a way to save face, she gave everyone a plausible explanation to preserve their feeling of sisterhood and ease the feelings of hurt and betrayal, and she proved that cooperation and care can leave everyone better off rather than inherently forcing everyone into positions of sacrifice and compromise. By putting herself at risk in order to show grace to Indri, she took the whole coven from the fragile Mutually Assured Destruction equilibrium they were angling towards, back into an actual covenant built on cooperation between sisters who are equals and peers. God these guys are so freaking brilliant, it's so satisfying to hear someone who is both a smarter player and a better person than me navigate these situations, Erika is my hero (not to mention the rest of them)

DaphneDawn

Indri went “it’s just big me”

Lavender Sky Entertainment

This is my new favorite episode. I have hated Indri and some of these other witches this entire arc because of how "pinkies up" they are, and how they talk in elitist riddles. Watching the brilliant farm girl finally put them on their ass is a true delight!

Lavender Sky Entertainment

I think since this is essentially Morrow's project, they'll be fine. Honestly, egg on Tefmet for not doing enough research to know that this was the work of a non-citadel wizard

Krystine W.

While listening in my car, reacted to the conclave scene loudly with a "Fuck youuuuuu Indri!" Not my proudest moment as I ordered my coffee before work but also, no regrets. Marvelous episode.

505Dude

Ooooooooh. That moment when Hekea drops the bomb about who would be next. *Chef's kiss*

Gabby s

I was already getting His Dark Materials: Golden Compass vibes for the location and now a PORTAL TO ANOTHER WORLD IS HAPPENING?!

Ryan L.

Such an amazing episode! Once again now really can't wait for the next!

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

it’s human nature to try to pinpoint the heroes and villains of these “factions”, but what i think this story does very well is depicting the different forms evil can take, more specifically how it manifests depending on where it falls within the sociopolitical hierarchy. and honestly, it would be a damn shame if folks were not analyzing the Citadel with nuance because it is the most powerful and carefully crafted depiction of Brennan’s distrust for institutions to date. it’s an immaculate representation of human greed, the slow and calculated poison of corruption, how it permeates and warps every facet of existence until it becomes normal, and the butterfly effects on everything and everyone in its path. being caught in the web of greed means that even the innocent become unknowingly, unwillingly compliant in the destruction that follows. a concept that many in our own world have to reckon with. my theory is the general public of the Citadel (and the far reaches of the Empire at large) are being spoon fed exactly what a select few in power WANT them to know. it’s entirely plausible that, with the controlled information the public is given, they genuinely believe: 1) the war is justified, 2) the Citadel has the means and strength to protect Umora, and 3) they have a moral obligation to do so with all of the resources at their disposal. the average wizard could unlearn some behaviors in regards to blind faith, sure. but they don’t know what they don’t know. even those in positions to carry out orders could easily fall into the same mindset that we’ve seen from Suvi (a learned behavior!) time and time again: “i trust these people, they have not given me a reason to distrust them, and what is happening can be easily rationalized to feel logical and necessary.” it’s brainwashing. and i don’t say that lightly — it’s horrifying. and INCREDIBLE storytelling. i don’t think it’s as simple as Wizards Are The Bad Guys. however… two things can be true. because it is also not a stretch to imagine there are a select few in the highest seats of the Imperium who have manipulated magic, manicured knowledge, and crushed those who refuse to fall in line. we have been shown instances of cruelty and exploitation from witches and spirits alike, as well as kindness and generosity from wizards. witches and spirits aren’t any better or worse than wizards. just different. trying to package this discussion into Which Faction Is The Evilest is, i feel, an immense disservice to what i believe is a commentary on the messy complexities of humanity and integrity and growth and, i’ll say it, love. ahoohoo, crackle crackle, i think foxes should vote, etc. 🩵

Helen Tunbridge

Hey lil shawty let me whisper in your ear...

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

just wanna say i love scrambling over to the Patreon to gush and discuss theories with y’all. you’re all so funny and smart. what a joy this podcast continues to be. so much love and care shines through when these are the people who flock to your work. ty, WBN 🩵

Helen Tunbridge

I also still don't quite understand how Imperium vs Citadel works. If Morrow was a non-Citadel wizard, is it the Imperium doing this? But then why would he be so keen to show the Citadel to get on their good side? Or did he find the discs? Or he made them and the Citadel?Imperium? is coopting them for even more nefarious purposes?

Sophie Rivers

Taylor's sound design on this one, what a spectical! i felt like i was actually there in the room with Ame sitting right next to her! and talk about a cliff hanger!

Beau R.

hey gang i know this isnt the episode it happened but i was reminded just because of how good Ursulan and Heinrul's friendship is. last episode when Heinrul nuzzled into Ursulan's chest mad me full on burst into tears. it felt so emotional and just like what Ursulan needs

Puricodraws

i was on the edge of my seat this entire ep, it truly had everything! Drama! Intrigue! Tefmet!!

Karo Zhu

multiple times my jaw DROPPED "you might have paint on your lips but you're as old as dirt like i am" goodbye i love u hakeya wow what an episode. wow this worldbuilding is INSANE the DETAILS the INTRICACIES the DICE

DaphneDawn

Nice is meaner than mean.

M

Or what if they found the plates that should’ve been destroyed but are instead being repurposed by the citadel?

Aussie Griffin

I took the liberty of reading all the comments... am I the only one who saw what was going on with Suvi and the Glass Spider?! Could this be an after-effect of the magical destiny hug? Is there a Witch of Wizards coming into being? I MUST HAVE ANSWERS!!! >_< A.G.

Matt Thackray

I have to shoot my theory out there! Spoilers for the EP: I think that the Citadel is literally using the time dilation of the spirit world in order to fast track new tech. I mean the glass spider? How long could they have taken to create that NEW magic? Days? Impossible, UNLESS the wizards are venturing into the spirit world, where time does not flow the same, and are coming back days or even moments later in OUR time with this new creation. Just like with the GLASS! The glass!!! CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE GLASS! It would conceivably take them quite a while to miniaturize that invention, the life’s work of one Hedgemage Morrow, down to the size we see. That is UNLESS during the two month time skip they were working tirelessly in their little hyperbolic time chamber like a bunch of freaky nerds to make it portable and more utilitarian. And does Steel know about this? Surely, and with that the web grows ever more entangled. A soup of snakes! Either way, great episode y’all. 🤠🤠🤠

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

My guess is because the Citadel it is the closest analog to the most prevalent evils in our own world 🤷🏻‍♀️

Sarah Brandon

I really want them to talk about “home.”

Hex DeWitt

Such a good lore drop! 💚💚💚

Jenneryy

The dominoes!! My god this episode was so good!

Aviva

Heinrul doesn’t give a rat’s ass about toxic masculinity trying to weigh down his emotions or limit interpersonal touch. This is no bromance. He is just unabashedly affectionate and friendly with Eursalon, and it got me in the feels too.

Aviva

WTF, BLeeM?! “When you got friends, you got everything!” I can hear you beaming while you say it, you SOB. I’m not crying, YER CRYING! 🥹

Nina

Suvi trying to communicate to Tefmet with her gaze that she recognises them as a Wizard, is me intensely looking at non-straight girls to let them know "me too" And them probably going "ookay"

Jenn

The rolls this episode told such a kickass, perfect story to go along with the kickass, perfect roleplay. Damn. Incredible.

Elizabeth Boskey

How is no one talking about the enhance ability that allows you to come up with the brilliant retorts you would have thought of in the shower three next day?!?! Best buff ever, and I'm so sad I can't remember the phrasing. I'm going to have to listen again tomorrow. 😍😍 Also "niceness is meaner than meanness". There's nothing as devastating as weaponized kindness

boreanSlumber

hey everyone, i was hoping someone here could point me in the direction of any transcription for the episodes? i’ve been searching for a while and i can’t find them (i also looked in the faq). it’s very possible it’s right in front of my face or i simply missed it somewhere, but any help would be appreciated

Evelina Meiklejohn

I was also so scared when Ame presented that!! I was like "why are you giving them a reason to still kill you??" 😆

Evelina Meiklejohn

This podcast makes my commute to work so much better. ❤️

Kenzie

What I love about this story is the nuance of the citadel. The citadel is at war, which will lead inevitably to unethical actions, and also traps spirits in Jiao Court. But I’m not yet willing to fully pin them as the Bad Guys bc their enemies from Rhuv and the Chalices also seem Really Bad. I mean, Captain Emliss had Ame making death saves simply bc Ame was a witch. That alone makes me feel like the citadel may have some valid reasons for what they do

Kenzie

I may just not be remembering, I also don’t think we know /why/ Morrow did what he did? Like, to what end did he trap Naram? Just to show that he could, or was there an even more nefarious plot??

Michael Waltman

Such a good episode! Oh my god the cliffhanger…what is Steel gonna say when she finds out?! Holy cow!!! 😳

Enna Strider

Me finishing with a very high pitched "Nooooooo Brennnnnnan." Also me *imagine's Abriea yelling at Brennan, "Hey Brennan why you gotta always make wizards the bad guys, huh?!" *

Beanz

I had actually assumed Hekea was the next to be kicked out. I was flabbergasted by the fallout.

Beanz

I'll admit I'm having some trouble with that. I /know/ the Citadel is a separate entity but I don't know /how/ separate.

Beanz

I kind of hope Mirara gives the mug back before the end of the Conclave.

Beanz

The fact that Ame let the Fox give her vote was so precious. Me at work: "HE GOT A VOTE!!"

Follow the Fox

Right? And Ame with "ooh my first vote!" Precious is the word

Beanz

1. The spider interaction with Suvi was too cute and I appreciate that it will have character development consequences

Beanz

2. This episode helped me finally understand the difference between witches and wizards. I know there's an obvious difference in terms of aesthetic, which is best represented by wizards compared to Ame's witchcraft. But Indri's witchcraft challenged my assumptions, since her aesthetic is so similar to the wizards.

Beanz

3. What we just learned makes Suvi's necklace much more interesting. I had thought it was imperative because of being seen by the Man in Black, but now I'm wondering if the invisibility from Greater Spirits is related to this bigger problem.

Beanz

4. Lastly, when the disks were revealed and Tefmet said they weren't /entirely/ sure what they were for, i said, "they're just elevator disks." And then after the 3rd listen, I remembered what "the desrick" was referring to and had a facepalm moment. However, my first thought concerns me. Do you think those gigantic disks in the Citadel are for an even bigger action?

Masochismet

It's not just that she let her off the hook, it's that she manipulated her into undoing her offing of the previous two witches. In order to get off the the hook, she basically has to give up her "coven of one" plan

Adarsh Nednur

To quote Brennan responding irl to a very similar situation, "That's not a great way to make your dreams come true"

Jack Hill

Love Hakea locking in after 1000 years

Jaylon Solaris

1. I would love to be the witch of the watching fire and 2 the witch of the waning moon absolutely has to be hiding a shy hot goth woman behind her mask

Divanté Malachi

Suvi ought to learn to keep their citadel status on the low

Kenzie

To be fair, Ame outed her this time round

Erika Iverson

I really don’t want Steel to be THE bad guy- but I’m beginning to suspect that she is A bad guy.

Erika Iverson

Whooo thought I was the only one

Ashley Teatum

I also feel like that scene would have gone much differently had Tefmet not known... Would Suvi have interjected or objected more, and then we don't get the full story?

Ashley Teatum

Motion to title this arc, A Ripe Tale of Bitches

Cocomoose

Bean amazing questions and insights. I just got done listening to it and will need to do a relisten but do you get the connecting between the Derick and the disks I’m having a hard time recalling. I know they were doing stuff on the ship and feel that with them having the spirit captured they were doing test and what not but can’t recall what those disk did.

Cocomoose

Right I just finished and was like DAMIT BRENNAN!!!! Stop with the cliff hangers. I think he is shooting the more complexities of the wizards and how their strive for learning and education and for control is leading to what tefemet is trying to show.

Cocomoose

Again and always my mind is blown away. Like COME ON WHYYYYYYYYY DID IT HAVE TO END!!!!! I just want more of the story but love the cliffhangers. Again this is what I calL Prestige storytelling. Is the citadel trying to make their own spirits? Like wizard love to learn and want to have that understanding of magic and knowing that spirits have magic they don’t understand and want to gleam is leading to these experiments on spirits or try to recreate them? Ugh I can’t wait for the fireside chat but also the next episode!!!

Beanz

I don't remember if we were told exactly what the disks at the derrick did. I just remember that the derrick is where our shitty hedge mage trapped that great ocean spirit.

Sil

HOLD THE FK UP. SUVI KNOWS. Ep #9, 25:50. SHE ADMITTED TO KNOWING UNDER THE EMPIRE'S LIE OF "saving lives." GODDAMN IT, BRENNAN/AABRIA. It took a second listen through this episode to realise.

Adarsh Nednur

Right, I think the disks were the means by which they were able to trap a Great Spirit like Naram. I'm not sure if these are the actual disks from the derrick—with the issue being that people outside of the trio don't know Naram was trapped (which will only make them more interested in killing the wizards)—or if the implication is that these are new disks that haven't been used yet, which means the Citadel has the means to do it again and it wasn't just a one-off thing.

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

Steel KNOWS.... but what will Suve say when she finds THAT out ! Delicious

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

I love this comparison! I've given a performative flounce here and there, maybe throwing out some terms that belie a deep understanding of fabrics and fashion to the other queer in a public group to similarly signal 💁🏻‍♀️🧚🏻

Rachel

Aabria: nat one Lou: Nat 20

Daniel Stevens

I loved the olive branch Suvi held out in this episode, she really is The Witch Of The World's Heart for a reason. I know it sounds like Aabria's but it's more about the future prediction and truth finding and contemplation in the time of contemplation, and the removal (burning away) of that which clouds and obscures.

OneGirlPainting

I wonder what Ame’s next move is? Will she and Ursulan explain what they found/rescued in sport Tallon?

OneGirlPainting

Now you’ve got me thinking of Mirara as an emo teen witch

OneGirlPainting

“A ripe tale of bitches” 🤣🤣🤣

Wizard Soliloquy

I love that the memory from the library of stars is the way that Suvi fulfills Sly's prophecy that without her Ame would die

Wizard Soliloquy

I actually wonder at what point Brennan knew that's how the prophecy would be fulfilled

Dominic Corbin

So many reason they might have too. "Oh this work captured a Great Spirit to be used as a weapon. Better refine it in case we need it.", "Oh, this Morrow guy had an interesting idea and some success; better research it some more for fun/profit/weapons/other applications/knowledge/because wizards/etc.", "Oh our agent Morrow lost control of the spirit he was keeping. We've disavowed him, gathered all his info, and have refined into our new prototype, here's the report on progress", or more that I'm not thinking of right now. Bigger question, what does Steel know and what has she not told Suvi?

SmileyGuy

It was a lost opportunity for Suvi to hear the presentation for herself and to be able to ask Tefmet questions for better information.

Langorian

Hey, you are already looking in the right place just not at quite the right time :D The transcripts get added a few days after the episode airs (can sometimes take a week or more) right at the bottom of the description here on Patreon. You can have a look at episode 31, there is a pdf at the very bottom. I'm sure they'll add it here as soon as It gets finished!

Dana Wheeler

This was such an amazing ans quotable episode! Setting aside the hit tea about Mirara and The Man In Black (I have som some many questions...) I wonder if Steel knows Tefmet. Also, did Steel know that someone was going to make a presentation but didn't know the topic? Could she be helping Tefmet with information? Just interesting that she knew someone who could go to and study the near spirit, is basically raising their child but wouldn't know about others studying it? I don't know. I also don't want Steel to be a villian because Suvi already lost her bio parents.

Dumbledalf the Wizard

It was so cool the way Suvi stared down Tefmet! I realized that if it had been me, I would have immediately thought "time to keep my head down I need this wizard to spill the beans" and I loved the way Aabria stayed true to her character and still got Tefmet to talk at the same time! My question is did Tefmet not think Ame would share with Suvi or did she just not care?

boreanSlumber

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond and let me know. i really appreciate it!

Dominic Corbin

Correct, of course, that Steel need not tell her subordinates details. My question is more about Suvi's reaction to being left out of the loop. If Steel were to say "the Sword of the Citadel does not need to explain herself to subordinates", that's a much different response than "sorry kid you know operational security means I can't tell you everything I'd like to". Both get to the same place, but much different emotions given the relationships. Also my recollection is that Steel at least implied that Morrow's innovation for capturing a Great Spirit was getting completely shut down. If the Citadel has continued to work on it, that's a betrayal. If Steel used clever wordplay to only imply that, it is deception and betrayal. Neither situation will sit well with Eursolon (spelled wrong, need a cheat sheet) or Ame. The capture of Naram is one of the strongest reactions to events Eursolon has had. I would think Suvi would not care for Steel misleading her either, though as you point out Steel may have a duty to do so, and perhaps Suvi would accept that.

Dominic Corbin

By taking it Mirara crossed Ame, and thus Ame gains power over Mirara now! Ame told Indri the story, so Indri should know, but will she tell Mirara?

Dominic Corbin

@Brandon, Indri did have three. Herself, Grimore, and Mirara. Indri didn't account for Ame getting Hakea to bestir herself to out the treachery planned in her conspiracy. Should have locked up that last vote ice queen.

Dominic Corbin

Steel has always seemed suspicious I think. However, up until the geas her actions that we have seen have always been to help and protect our heros. There are arguments that the geas is the best course of action though, and it certainly seems to have paid off. I have to say I'm still always waiting for the shoe to drop with her though.

Dominic Corbin

@Makenzie Morrow specifically wanted to use Naram's powers to send floods and storms at enemies, and good weather to help grow food for the Empire. I may be missing some of the specifics, but that's the basics.

Ro Lara

Omg i love this theory it would make so much sense!!!

Cody Zimmer

"But I know well the bottoms of it's feet". Brennan, you are cutting me to my heart here. The words are just too beautiful to be contained. ❣️

Ashley Teatum

SO much this, I need to go back and listen to the scenes where Suvi tells Steel about the derrick yowza

I Davis

After re-listening I'm convinced Hakea was under some influence for being sleepy/unaware by spirits Sekuro and Badzhe (sorry spelling). Getting real big Thèoden vibes <.<

Ingrid Mehammer

“After three days you can feel the effect of not waking to the sun»…. *laughs in scandinavian as i have my 5th coffee for the day*

Dominic Corbin

Perhaps Tefmet is showing them a fragment of one, rather than the whole thing. I believe the ones on the derrick were very large. If this is a smaller version, either the Citadel has improved on Morrow's work, which our heroes were led to believe would be ended, or Morrow expanded a standard version of something the Citadel uses to be able to capture a Great Spirit. Either possibility is rife with consequences for both our heroes and their relationship with the Citadel.

Dominic Corbin

Masochismet is right. Allowing Indri to save face, by suggesting she was planning to elevate another witch to the coven, is less dangerous to Ame than it may appear. Ame engineered it so that to continue with destroying the station of the World's Heart, Indri would have needed to produce a replacement to elevate right then. Indri admitted that she was not ready to do so, and so it was untenable to continue with Ame's destruction. However Indri is also manipulated into committing to adding stations to the coven in the future putting her "coven of one" plan even further out of reach. Of course, Indri has a very long life, so perhaps this is merely a setback for her. I'm uncertain why Indri is unwilling to simply break the coven, and so no longer be bound by it. Perhaps she fears the interference of the other elders, and witches of similar power, infringing on her domain without it.

Jake M

The scoring at the conclusion of this episode gave me goosebumps. Amazing work, Taylor!

Glen Petrofski

Witch of Words written going to be added ?

Tristan

I love the transitions between story beats and the outro. The “and that’s where we’re going to end this session” is nice, but that smooth transition? WAY better. Props to Taylor and everyone else working on these!

Aviva

I’m curious about this idea that the Citadel has expanded on Morrow’s work. It seems less likely to me than the Erien using Morrow, his Chantry, and the Scepter’s Chorus at large as a way to distance themselves from any potential fallout from field testing such a massive undertaking. That distance is exponentially more important given that the Scepter’s Chorus is specifically a *non-militaristic* arm of the empire. Like, yeah, maybe this toddling buffoon stumbled into something great and terrible as an idea. The implications are much, much scarier and far reaching if Morrow was allowed to believe this was his idea and life’s work. If the Citadel wanted to try out a way to subjugate and weaponize a great spirit, pinning the whole operation on some self-aggrandizing guild mage in a relatively modest post seems like a good way to put miles and miles of distance between them. Now it’s an unsanctioned overreach by a minor governmental agency in a modest port town on a little island (Akham) near the edge of the Empire. Many, many steps removed from, “Fuck yeah, we’re gonna use that huge stupid fish spirit to decimate Rhuv and Gaothmai so that the Empire has no powerful enemies. Haha, nerds!” *pours aerith like Gatorade*

Aviva

Nice is so much meaner than mean.

Aviva

And they didn’t even talk about the power of the vote against destroying Ame and her station being UNANIMOUS!

Aviva

I hope you submitted this for the fireside chat.

Aviva

Obviously had to be held for the fireside because spoilers. 😉

Aviva

You have more self control than me.

Aviva

Suvi didn’t sleep, but everyone else did.

Aviva

See T’s comment above re: Spotify. 😊

C. A. Whyse

Perhaps it's a matter of not feeling they can trust anyone in the Citadel directly. With what they are describing, it'd be like the equivalent of an American being friends with a Russian scientist during the Cold War: you don't know who's working on the next nuke, and you strongly suspect the scientist has the capacity to wreck your shit. That's just my take on it. Added bonus if it causes strife between the two (from Tefmet's eyes).

C. A. Whyse

I think we all have to remember Suvi's initial reaction to seeing Naraam under glass-- she was absolutely horrified and disgusted. That being said, she did fall down the wizard "what if" rabbit hole. She absolutely has potential for both. I could see a world where she picks one side and slowly gets dragged across the line towards the other. Which direction she goes will determine whether she is written as a hero or a villain (ultra simplistic, I know, but it fits here).

Glen Petrofski

Well it would disturb the pup (my 8 year old who is as tall as my partner on hind legs) who was sleeping on me at the time so of course all self control was used. I can't listen to this in public. I have cried, snorted, giggle, grunted, groaned, yelled "No!" And many other things.

Michelle Morrison

This episode is SO messy and I’m LIVING for it.

BingusBongos

That ending made me get up in public yelling "NO FREAKING WAY!"

Mary W

Idk what made me giggle more- “oh! My first vote!” OR “I cast Pinterest at 9th level” or “I found MEAT!” 🤣🤣🤣 god I love this podcast you’re all so freakin funny

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

aaaAAAAAA 🗣️ I LOVE THIS. the glass spider WAS so whimsical in a way that i could see being crafted in proximity to spirit magic!! especially with Suvi’s little interaction with it that was clearly not intentionally designed by wizards!! and like, even if the Citadel is doing the surface level thing of entering the spirit world to capture them for study, once they discovered the time dilation of COURSE wizard nerds would be like *Brennan’s old guy nerd voice* “MY DREAM OF ACCOMPLISHING A LIFETIME OF WORK IN A DAY CAN BE REALITY!” 😂 however, if i’m remembering correctly, our only reference for how the time dilation works is: less time spirit world = more time mortal world (20 minutes for Eursulon + digging his way through the rotted tree = 200 years since he last saw Sir Curran)… ALTHOUGH it’s entirely possible that different doors have different rules. Steel had offered to bring Eursulon to a door (saying they had done so for spirits - PLURAL! - in the past) assuming he was unable to find one before learning he was wayshadowed, but you knooooow that means the Citadel is aware of several? dozens? MANY doors. WHAT A COOL IDEA TYSM FOR SHARING spoilers (?) if you haven’t listened to the Fireside Chat from today: also i have to re-listen to both this episode and Morrow’s introduction of the derrick to try to piece together what exactly Tefmet has and (thank you to today’s Fireside) WHO TEFMET’S SOURCES COULD POSSIBLY BE OH MY GODDDD WHAT INFORMATION DID SHE BURN

mumbo

Ame got some key info from extending a hand to Indry, but I really wish she had gone to the defence of Mirara instead when it got personal. It would’ve been all the more meaningful since they’re opposing stations and Ame’s had experience being an outcast with her whole childhood reminder of “Be Nice”.

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

i get what you’re saying, but “nothing in the text” does not apply to creative storytelling, period. that’s why subtext exists - for the reader (audience) to fill in gaps, correctly or not ⬅️ that alone is its OWN tool of storytelling because the audience making assumptions based on subtext can create really impactful red herrings within a story chock full of foreshadowing. that’s just. how storytelling works. that’s what makes us eager to return to the story time and time again: we don’t ACTUALLY know where it will end up, or what subtext we misread, or what clues we straight up missed. it’s a little hard to figure out where you stand on this because, at first, it seemed like a sort of general annoyance that many fans have already decided Wizards Are Bad, and i was with you on that. but now it seems like you’re implying you dislike that people are theorizing based on the subtext + the real world concepts of empire/state power/military that Wizards Might Be Bad. which… uh, well. that’s gonna happen. i’m not sure what to tell you. they’re not telling this story in a vacuum — large institutions with unchecked power does, historically speaking, lead to corruption. that connection was bound to be made. like, it’s cool to be frustrated that people have already made up their minds, so to speak, because i agree that would be unfortunate when it really feels like we are only just beginning this massive and complex story. but the way you’ve been wording your comments is starting to say that you would just straight up not like if any wizards turned out to be evil, even if it made sense thematically for the story with the subtext they’ve been weaving throughout. i know it’s impossible to convey over the internet when someone is being genuine, but the last thing i’m going to say is NOT intended to be aggressive or condescending — i’m along for the ride because i have years of enjoying Brennan’s work under my belt and i know i’ll love it all the more with the wonderful, talented friends he’s chosen to tell this story with him. and if you don’t like where the story ends up, that’s kind of a you problem. not all stories are for all people.

Do the Hussell

I might be late to the game, but wizardy in this world is akin to the discovery and utilization of fossil fuels, yeah?

Adriana Duffy

This episode was SO GOOD. Absolutely top storytelling going on here I swear my mind is blown every episode

Jay Clement

As far as I'm concerned, Suvi is a witch. She is the Witch of Whispers and Worries.

SapphoDyl

I haven’t seen many people talking about this, but it strikes me as pretty significant that the first vote of unanimity that the Coven has seen for some (presumably quite long) time is to both ensure the continued existence of the station of The Witch of the World’s Heart and that Ame is the selected witch for it. I wonder what possible magical ramifications that may bring for Ame & her station!

Julie

As an Indy resident, I too, am still recovering from Gen Con

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

To my mind It's not a 1:1 of anything specific, but more a gestalt of many different vibes, The Industrial Revolution industrializing War. Nationalistic Imperialism. Technological Arms Race. The Roman Empire. Just a big ol Melange of "We are here to create 'progress' and everything else comes second"!

Thought Thief pod

OHMYGOSH! OHMYGOSH! OHMYGOSH! Ok, so I’m doing a re-listen of the whole podcast. Episode 9, right after crew sees Narahm, Marrow says “no one has dominion over the sea” and they don’t because the Which of the Wide sea is dead!!! Sorry, don’t know where to put this or who to show my crazy conspiracy board to.

Beanz

Huh. I didn't actually think about that. Interesting. ::thoughtful chin scratch::

Anonymous Developer

Delicious. Sumptuous Tea. Most hydrating conclave of all time. Also- HUMAN?? Damn she's like a human hermit crab in a dark satin pillowfort from the size descriptions. Coconut crab ass goth in her Gundam shadow mech- git outta here lady shoo, scuttle away from Ame

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

i genuinely apologize. that was not my intention. i was more trying to *figure out* your opinions on how the story was unfolding based on what you had been commenting. i wasn’t phrasing my thoughts as “this is definitely what your opinions are” and more “IF this is your line of thought, it seems misguided”… so if i was wrong, again, i’m sorry. i don’t mean to make anyone feel like they can’t engage with media that they enjoy 😕 that’s a big part of the fun. i only meant to say that the way you had been engaging was coming across as unproductive, but it’s definitely possible i was misreading your tone. happens a lot online unfortunately. i feel like we have a lot of the same opinions in relation to the Citadel not being given a chance to prove there is good within it — there are a lot of blanket statements that happen in this community… which is frustrating 🙄 it’s just not that simple and it’s sad when folks look at it that way. plus the complete lack of seeing the irony when they straight up won’t question witches’ or spirits’ intentions with the same ferocity. anyway, sending nothing but good vibes to you, and protect your peace first and foremost 🩵

Enna Strider

"Just cuse you don't know what it means to have a family" Goddam Suvi, we are going for the HEART with that one.

DaphneDawn

Lowkey sounds like Chappel Roan song…

theelizabethjoy

Can I please be known as " coconut crab ass goth" from now on?

Aviva

Fair. I have much better self control when my dog is sleeping nearby, too. I’ve definitely had some pointed looks coming in my direction at red lights while listening to the show. My reactions are somewhat less than subtle.

Beanz

Get that put on a pair of booty shorts.

Feefsters

I have no one to talk to about this episode 😭😭😭 the way I was staring at the wall getting ready to sleep jaw dropped at the realization of the CONSPIRACY