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Fireside Chat for WWW ep22 "Bring Them to Me" (Patreon)

Published:
2024-02-20 09:30:01
Edited:
2024-03-08 01:15:17
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

The whole cast fights about whose fault the episode was.  The guilty party is determined, but will they show remorse? Will they receive mercy? Only YOU THE LISTENER can decide! JK, all crime is legal now, we Purgin' baby!

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Comments

WizardScorch

so excited for this!!! is it 4 AM? yes! will i listen anyway?? YES

Emily Mills

The purge image is so funny

MoxalMox

Such an intense episode, y’all are great.

Sil

That description is mortifying *slams play*

Matt Kilsby

I'd like a course from Lou in how to create incredibly funny names every week

daisy

ONE HOUR AND TWENTY TWO MINUTES?

Jonathan Wolfe

What a great time to accompany playing bg3 irresponsibly late into the night

WWMSudoku

it's brennan's fault, obviously

jerry stokvis

FUCKING DO IT!!!! (if suvi and ame dont make up soon im gna actually have a breakdown)

Matthew Curtis

So Ame isn't a terrorist but the fox is hahahaha

Jake the Cake

I physically have to restrain myself from listening until after school

kat martin

SAY PSYCH RIGHT TF NOW ALL OF YOU FOR THAT LAST FIVE MINUTES! SAY. PSYCH!!

Sil

So what I've learned in this episode? Is that Brennan is terrifying 🤣 "fkn try me!?" "Do it... DO IT!", Brennan? I BEG YOUR FKN PARDON!?

Queerly Victorian

I should have known that this was the penultimate episode. Will miss these characters during the month off, but always down for some bone cone from this lovely podcast!

The Ugly Goblin

God the graphic for this- absolute gold dust xD

Archon of Commoragh

Yeah. I also agree that there is a lot more nuance to what happened. Can't wait to see the last episode.

The Ugly Goblin

God I was so blown away by this episode! I- I don't even know where to start- you are the best storytellers I have ever witnessed!

lunarsummer

I actually love the world it paints when players have their characters act just a little inconsistently sometimes, especially at lower levels. Sometimes people forget things, or switch between what they want or what they believe! The story feels more vivid when the pcs mirror that. Characters getting a little messy is 👩‍🍳🤌

The Ugly Goblin

I'm just going to be reactjng as I listen xD too excited to wait until the end! I just wanna say it's been so cool watching the last episode and now know exactly what happend "mechanically" when Suvi grabbed her Witch friend by the shoulder to try to stop her and experiences her new ability to curse those who wrong her- ugh! Tingles

Zander Jenkins

new merch: fireside chat “maybe water”

Destiny

"to suvi, obedience is love" BRENNAN LEE MULLIGAN!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

Thomas Heniff

“I have built a landscape out of gasoline and I am holding a lit match” is such a bad ass thing to say so nonchalantly

KamasiFitzgerald

I was on the fence before listening to this, but nah I'm fully on Suvi's side now ☠️☠️☠️ Ame's refusal to communicate is becoming impossible to justify beyond 'mAgiCaL inStiNcT', and I LOVE all of it. Can't wait for the finale of this incredible arc

James O'Dwyer

"I don't have a plan, I just have a world" ... made of gasoline, and he's holding a match, goading the players on to try and set the world on fire. I do love these perspectives. XD

Bryan Holt

It's such a choice that Suvinand Ahmey both have a class that REQUIRES a stationary, land locked place of power

Micah Baird

“We knew it would be this way.” To me, this validated my growing anxiety ever since Sly said they would not be permitted to leave. There was no amount of waiting and learning that would get them permission (unless Sly is wrong) they had to go!!!!

Christopher Martin-Givens

Excited to listen, my friends and I have been intensely arguing over who was in the right and in the wrong last ep.

Michelle Spurgeon

Can't wait to listen to the wizard, the walrus, and the watch

Morgana Evenstar

I wanna see the Sondheim/Dirty Rotten Scoundrels area of the spirit world.

lil guy

These fireside chats make me so happy to be a patron every time. The story is rich enough on it's own, but these chats always reveal a world of added nuance. It's also a great privilege to bare witness to some truly wild bits. Just, what a perfect treat. Couldn't be happier to sit by the fireside with y'all.

lil guy

Whoever makes these is insane and a genius

Jake the Cake

Alright I've listened. Suvi is absolutely in the right here. I looooove Ame and Ursalon but there's barely an excuse to be found here for them not to listen to her in this situation 😭

Devon

The best part of waking uppp is a new fireside chat in your app! Calling Ame out for lying was so necessary - hearing Ame lie to protect herself or soften the urgency of the actions she needs to take, reveals how important it is for her to get out of the Citadel and into her own domain. I can't wait to see how she plays her hand with the Coven. Witches, man.

Karl256

Erika's gremlin voice going "That was very sexy of you."

Abigail M

Loved the discussion of Suvi perceiving love as orders, and Erika was so real for quietly whispering that “bring them to me” was hot

Aabria Iyengar

The fox gets to be a lil tewwowist as a treat <3

Erin

Awh my poor baby Suvi! I love that you all take big swings with storytelling and keeping us all as emotional hostages.

GrumblyArcher

I think Suvi's throwaway comment about wizards and taxonomy to Mr. Callum is a lot more telling than anyone really gives it credit for, especially in regards to the Suvi vs Ame/Eursulon break. Like, everything we've seen indicates that wizards categorize and control things and when they run into things beyond that they seek to crush them down into controllable categories. To some degree or other, that threat has been hanging over Ame and Eursulon their entire time in the Citadel.

nandrusin

It's crazy that this is like the, 3rd or 4th time the gang has ran off with out Suvie being able to follow. Its so consistent, and Suvie finally had enough lol

HexMix

So hyped for the birthday stream 🥳

Carrie Suzanne @ Petit Valais

The debrief I needed. Yes to big choices. I love how gleeful Brennan is about dealing out the consequences, even if it means burning his world to the ground. I love that this big, beautiful, terrible, gray world is wide open and the characters can fully explore their paths. In a way I feel like it helps us think outside our own prescriptive lives and maybe think of ways we could make big, bold choices that dramatically change our own (and other’s) lives. A butterfly flapped its wings and gave me chills.

Candlelighter

For some reason, it says that this fireside chat is 5 hours long, and I was disappointed to realize that's not the case

Amaya

Very relieved to find out there's one more episode coming out next week because I truly thought that this was the last one of the arc and was rightfully distraught about the cliffhanger lol. Also, LOVE the analogy of "I've made a landscape of gasoline and am holding a lit match" because everything about the episode was so sudden and unexpected and I love (and am eternally stressed out by) the fact that there's no plan and that the story can go wherever they choose to take it so no big swing is off the table

Amaya

I'm so excited for the next episode because this is such excellent storytelling and the thought that goes into the big swings the characters take is so raw and inspires such strong feelings!!!! And I feel so deeply for Suvi because in the absence of communication the only conclusion she can come to is that her friends don't care about her and how what they do affects her. And it really raises the question in my mind of does Ame not understand that her choices have very real consequences for Suvi or is it that she does understand but cares more about her own convictions and values them more than the hurt she's causing Suvi. Cause all I can picture is Steel at the end of Arc 1 telling them that if they endanger more lives of the citadel then they'll be viewed as enemies accordingly.

Tommy Deibel

Ame, I've never yelled at a podcast more. Erika, great story choices.

Ron Ron

Brennan also using The Cover Girl line! We need to do a campaign!

Tom J

I would have also James Brown'd Brennan during that "Debate me about Socialism while you're on the way to a friend's funeral" interaction at a Shell. That sounds so so bad and wrapping him in a nice coat feels like the only bandage.

Nicole Howard

Interesting to me that Suvi does not feel trapped in the citadel even though Sly told her she would not get permission to go

Jules

I've learned a lot about the importance of small talk over the last couple of years after starting community work, but have lacked the capacity to really articulate /why/ small talk IS a worthwhile skill to hone. Big thanks to you lot for feeding me with this dialogue 😌😌😌 Also, goddamn, I really feel for Suvi 😭 Thankfully it's not something that I've experienced for a long while, but getting hit in the "why is no one telling me what's going on, why won't you let me help, you think i'm not worth it, if you would just let me help then we can stop the bad things happening or at least be together during them, please stop excluding me" spot is a critical hit. 💜

FusRohNahSon

i think thats telling about suvis relationship to the citadel

Gene Comstock

Thank you all for an excellent episode and excellent Fireside. It’s a joy as a listener to hear RPG stories where the players have the courage to make game decisions not as the most carefully considered, logical real-world responses, but as fully embodied characters within their own world. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 👏🏼 such a treat, A+++ work all around

Erik Hanson

While the choices of these three players may often lead to incredible chaos, it's always chaos with a narrative purpose, and it tells a hell of a story. God knows I've seen plenty of campaigns where players make chaotic choices for the sake of pure chaos.

Julianne Hughes

Definitely! I mean, it's her home and she has this trust of the citadel that's been cultivated for a lifetime. Ame and Eursalon are going to feel danger and machinery, but for Suvi...it's going to take a lot for her to doubt the safety of a place that is not only her home but that she has spent a lifetime being indoctrinated to trust and accept.

A Brain In A Bucket

Is 'kick barrels burn bus stations' the new 'burn towns get money'???

Theo Blair

The way I see it the longer Ame spends at the citadel the more control they can exert over her. it comes back to that idea they've been establish of wizards move slow and win in the end. Imagine what they could do to the Witch's Coven if they held sway over one of it's members! it's so important she got out and it breaks my heart seeing how devoted to the systems of control Sky is!

Ashley Teatum

About to listen so taking a stab here but it's Brennan's fault right

Adam

Brennan, your explanation of obedience being a kind of love language for Suvi illuminated a past relationship I could never understand with such clarity. True lightbulb moment. Thank you sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Katie Butler

The conversation around choices and consequences is absolutely cathartic for me: it's such a running theme in our home game that we're constantly asking ourselves "are we the bad guys?" So i appreciate hearing the push and pull of players choices wrapped up in the same moral/sociatal quandaries we are.

Theo Blair

Bring Them To Me was such a hard episode to listen to because of it's dissonance between the character so it's so great to hear the players unpacking all their reasoning of these heavy character's choices! One of the things I find so interesting is the juxtaposition of Suvi's Character pre-leaving the citadel and how the wizard Sky handles her friends wanting to leave the citadel. She so desperately wanted to leave on an adventure and is frustrated with her place in the Citadel before leaving but now that she's seen how chaotic and dangerous the world can be she fully embraces the power of the Citadel to exert control over Bear & Ame. Such heart-wrenching and amazing character building!

Nathan Levine

I think what made this time so special was that Suvi truly could have followed them, and chose betrayal instead. I can't wait to see where this leads, kudos to our trinity of players and BIG CHOICES, because i was cackling in public while listening to Suvi's 'villain moment'. The sound design then was chef's kiss.

A Miyako M Illustrations

As an artist, the idea that Sherwin-Williams (the place where you buy paint for ROOMS and HOUSES and FURNITURE) is where we’re gonna get supplies for Eursulon’s portrait is hilarious. Forget the frame, he’s gonna get a whole damn mural on a wall 😂

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

But, are WE really having it, or is like, the Earth having it and we’re just spectating ya know ? 🫶🏻

LCB Meyneth

Of course brennen is gonna be the guy to use a chess metaphor and use it in an interesting way. Describing a plot as a game of chess is like, *textbook* pretending to be smart stuff, but finally it's being deployed by a writer who's played *a* game of chess. I'm terrible at it but the stuff about developing pieces throughout a game tracks so well

Ecceptable

Objection! The "Don't Shake the Foundations of the World" condition was not Naram staying under the derrick. It was (as far as we know) The Sword of the Citadal helping get Naram out from under the derrick and prosecute those involved. If it were a choice of Naram stays trapped and vivisected or Wizards die, I'd have sided with the Quest Fever Havers. Having so many people die for something that would have been bloodless in hours seemed to me a deep callousness towards human life. I would argue that if you want to shake the foundations of the world, get the information and allies you need to know what you're doing. That being said, I loved hearing everyone explore the perspectives in the episode and got a lot of insight into the characters. A lot of this fireside was me thinking, "Okay, that's fair."

Luke Hampshire

I can't wait for the full WBNCU timeline, complete with The Wizard/Witch/Wild One, The Warlock/Witch/Wild One, The Wizard/Watch/Walrus, A County Affair, Space Cram, and The Emergency Campaign Aabria Runs After The First Three TPK Themselves

Ecceptable

Hee! I was fully on Team Suvi (and still am) but after this I feel more on Ame and Ursalon's side than I was before.

Ecceptable

Then again, it seems the more Ame heals and helps a person the more control she has over them, which is truly twisted.

Erik Germani

This fireside was a great example of Brennan & Aabria's strengths as storytellers. There's some old writing advice: "Not only do you have to chase your characters up trees, but once they're up there, you need to throw rocks at them."... and Brennan skipped right past the rocks. He's over here buttoning up his bomb vest like Ethan Hawke in First Reformed, all in the name of enabling player choice. And then you have Aabria on the other hand, who is the greatest advocate a character could ask for. Awesome to hear her rationale for those character choices, and her willingness to play from inside of that POV. (Actually a great contrast to Lou, who's strength as a storyteller is his holistic sense of the narrative.) The point about visiting the sanctum vs. visiting the conclave + nobody explained to her it was time to escape by any means necessary were both irrefutable, I thought. I want to see a court martial and I want to see Suvi defend herself, because I think Aabria would be killer at it. But... objection! ☝🤓 Suvi didn't get court martialed for "sassing 4 guards," she rocked up to a military checkpoint and pulled a gun on the soldiers there (Umora-ly speaking, of course). Exhibit A, from the transcript of episode 11: --- Brennan: Great. They're going to come over, there's four of them here, and they're going to come over and start to manacle you. Aabria: I'm going to kill these guys because I'm in a bad mood! [...] And I want to send an Irulian bolt across the front of them. (roll initiative) Brennan: So, Suvi. You are going first. You send a bolt as a warning shot onto them. I am going to let you know. [...] Killing these soldiers will change your life forever. Aabria: [Bargaining] I'm not gonna kill them. I want them to not arrest me! Brennan! --- Sorry for the wall of text, Patreon's UI clearly doesn't want this book club to really take flight

Ecceptable

Sly is part of the Citadel and he's helping her go. So, first, is it that she won't receive official permission or that she'll be forbidden? Very different thing. Throughout the series we see wizards who do stuff, good and bad, without permission. Suvi knows the score on that. Second, who would give her permission? A passport office? A war council? Is it a matter of bureaucracy taking time, or them wanting a different wizard to go, or them restricting Suvi for her own safety, or a rival interfering with her through official channels?

Thomas Hegarty

I can’t believe it’s already almost been a year!!! Maybe Brennan will let our pals level up more than once this year 😉

Theo Blair

True, true! Never cross the kindness of a witch!

Amy Davidson

I was so ready for Lou's song at the end to be a version of "embraceable you". Those first few notes had it all cued up on my head.

Theo Blair

It's a big stew of everyone's fears and that's what makes it such an tough situation to parce! I lean towards Ame's side in all this because I think more disappointing that Sky doesn't trust her friends and respect their needs but I totally understand that Ame is letting her fear interfere with her ability to properly communicate. All just an amazing credit to the group for navigating a tense situation and make it an amazing story! :)

Kalunyx

Brennan: "that's just me, throwing dots of paint on a canvas.." well damn dude I didn't expect to be the Hamlet to your Million Monkeys today..

Ashley Teatum

Adding: What's always stuck with me in this whole Citadel arc is that Ame wakes up in it and was so ADAMANT she never go to the Citadel. I enjoy this ending here as the wake-up call/reminder to her that she perhaps got too comfortable there and never wanted to go there to begin with.

DomPie

I imagine each episode starts out as this massive Frankenstein blob of a musical instrument with all sorts of strings, levers, pipes, bells, drums, and whistles. And then the WBN gang makes music with all these parts that are the ties between the PCs and NPCs and their identities and roles/significance to each other and within Umora… -Suvi the daughter and Steel the mother; - Suvi the soldier and Steel the Sword of the Citadel; - Ame, Suvi & Eursulon’s childhood friendship and their adult friendship; - Ame & Suvi, orphans with surrogate parents and Eursulon, an orphan alone in the world; - The Witch of the World’s Heart and the Wizard Sky; - Eursulon, the brother and Eursulon, the shield…. etc. … this episode was them furiously pulling and striking all the musical doodads until it broke.

sabertruth19

So so good! Aabria’s call on the communication issue is so spot on. Ame not being firm about saying she has to get back to Toma because she wants to hang out, and she doesn’t want to hurt Suvi, and shedding the apprentice title and being fully responsible as the Witch of the World’s Heart is so big and scary so it feels easier to just not. Suvi ignoring/not noticing this because she wants to hang out and show off her home to her friends, and if we don’t talk about Ame having to go away, then maybe it just doesn’t have to happen. And the increasing feeling of being trapped that just blows up because everyone is busy not talking about the things that might disrupt the few moments they have to pretend that they are kids without all these responsibilities and roles pulling them in different directions. Also love love love the presence of Suvi’s rage at her friends never thinking about how their actions have these consequences for her, when she has heard the divinations for Ame - “in all the versions of this where you go without Suvi you die” and directed to her - “you will not receive permission to accompany her” and has chosen at the last moment to not travel with Ame, due to the order from Steel, with little regard for what that means for her witch friend three/two? days from now. The not speaking because you are afraid of hurting another and the not making space for speech because it might hurt you - such solid normal human bad communication dynamics. Roses for you all!

Cheese

55 seconds in and I'm already screaming HE'S RIGHT THOUGH

#KittyLearnsToCook

It's emotionally that long, wow this was a packed 'sode!

Ecceptable

It's funny, because I can see Ame's horrified reaction to it, but my reaction to that is "Don't do me no favors." I don't want something to be offered as a gift suddenly become a loan that can get called in.

Micah Baird

Yes. Amazing storytelling. Yes. Amazing choices. Suvi! You know they wouldn’t let you go. And you know that you have to go anyway! I guess they will meet at the North Pole. Ayayayayay

#KittyLearnsToCook

Whewwwww what a episode! I definitely understand Suvi but also, Suvi cares about SUVI getting hurt- she's had very little issue with people getting hurt if they're trying to stop her from her goals. Suvi feels like her method of control is OK and good, but anyone else trying to have control is scary and bad. Obedience is love for Suvi, but to demand that obedience from others is definitely not! And Suvi's desire to understand is also a desire to have the information to gain control, if she doesn't WANT to understand, she will pointedly justify to herself why the reasons given aren't good enough. Or like, the way she redefines her actions as just "being sassy" but she did try to shoot them, right??? And for Ame, encouraging freedom of choice, and trust in those choices, that is love, I think. But that kind of freedom requires having boundaries, too, and clearly stating that. Whew. You can't fault people for not acting on information they don't have, as frustrating as that can be to admit!! And yet... In some ways, Suvi and Ame are both so similar, far more so than they realize, and more than either of them are comfortable with. They are products of the adults who raised them, and they struggle to see it any other way. Absolutely amazing.

#KittyLearnsToCook

Having seen rescue foxes tearing apart their caregivers homes, this checks out 😂

Alex

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON HEAD DUDE it was so perfect

Catherine S Wall

I have been a Patron forever and this is the first Fireside chat I have listened to, and it is *perfection*

Catherine S Wall

Okay, but like... I feel like each of them are coming from slightly varying neurodiverse perspectives. Ame has the "oh shit, things I planned are getting pushed back, lemme hyperfocus on the goal" where Suvi has the "I don't understand, and communication is hard, and why can't they just follow the list of rules that describe the way things are?" This is just so... Everything

Brovura

As another black kid who grew up in the same area of OC as Aabria. It feels inherent that Parent's LOVE = CONCERN = CONTROL. And for good reason! Just google "Anaheim KKK" if you need context. It is COMMUNICATION ("Where are you", "How are you?") that eases the worry of black parents in a sundown neighborhood. Edit: My parents are by no means controlling but as a child, you have no context for many of their worries. My "Suvi in her parent's cloak" memories are nights I slept between my parents listening to shouting and laughter that was coming from just outside our home. The full context was my young parents weathered a prolonged harassment campaign by drunken neighbors who were littering and loitering the front of their home.

Amaya

I was so stressed out cause I didn't even take it as Suvi being unwilling to go, she just wanted to wait to talk to her mom!! Knowing she infrequently gets direct orders would seem to indicate there was something imperative that needed to be communicated before leaving cause it's not like Steel says things for no reason

Embroidery Bonanza

I so appreciate Brennan’s point about deep conversations depending on a level of trust with the person. So many people will ask people they don’t know very well invasive questions and blame the person they’re asking for becoming uncomfortable. There’s nothing shallow or unkind about having boundaries.

Krusty Bo Busty

39 minutes until brennan’s first “there is an element of”

Brovura

The Anti-social Anti-socialist gas station story has to be the epitome of "Empathy vs No Empathy". Debate Perverts lurk around every corner. Stay safe out there!

Theo Blair

I don't know that I would call it a loan though witches gifts come with a complementary curse for acting against some moral good. we see it went Ame give the couple the ring at the start of the show to ensure they can have kids. She is given a premonition of the husband's infidelity in the future and so she offers them a gift that has consequences. if the husband is never unfaithful he will never be cursed much like is the themes of the episode actions and consequences! 😜 And I think it says something about the characters that Ame elects not to use her power and Sky does. Both such complex and amazing characters and its only the second arc! 😊

Ecceptable

The Wizard, the Witch, the Wild One, the Waiter, the Waste Water Engineer, the Watchmaker, the Wealth Management Consultant, the Web Master, the Wedding Planner, the Window Cleaner, the Wine Merchant, the Woodworker, and the Wrestler.

thebillmm

I continue to be in awe of the storytelling instincts of these four (and of Taylor’s composition instincts). I have no words other than thank you for sharing your talents (and humor! and songs!) with us every week. We are grateful.

Theo Blair

I mean it does make you wonder where fantasy OSHA was, those Barrels were definitely NOT stored safely if one small creature could knock them over. XD

Theo Blair

If this season of Fantasy high has shown me anything it's that Brennan will absolutely let you fuck around & find out. XD "you wanna take 4 years worth of classes in one year? you can certainly try!"

Nick Fraker

The bit about obedience as a form of love makes me think of a TikTok I saw where someone was explaining their belief that a major communication issue between older and younger generations is that younger generations believe that respect is kindness, while older generations believe that respect is obedience. I personally feel like it's not so much an old vs young thing, but a conservative vs liberal thing, and younger people tend to be more liberal than olds. And with THAT in mind the friction caused by Ame listening but choosing to go forward with her decisions, and Suvi being offended by "they never [obey] me", definitely tells me more about the citadel than the rest of the campaign so far.

Theo Blair

Thank you for mentioning this It stuck out in my head to as an Uh, what? moment XD

Piras

Im normally not a fan of narratives that rely on communication issues to create conflict, but this is very well done, and done in a way to elevate conflicts which are being avoided, and that is such a relatable situation- conflict that brews from the avoidance of it.

Jules M.P.

I recently heard this quote during a history podcast, "Rome would make a desert and call it peace." I immediately thought of the Citadel. Is this a coincidence?

Charlie

The two things that can be true at once: 1) Brennan deserved time off for family, and 2) so glad the whole gang is back together. The convo is A+++.

AliceH

There's something to Obedience when the context is that the world is dangerous and complicated - there isn't always time* to explain. Good parents provide that context and understanding later/with age and it makes sense and shows the love on both sides. *it may not even be possible to explain until you have certain baseline understanding of the world/people/society

Daniel Richardson

I don't understand why Ame or Erika thought that keeping Sly's identity to themself was important though... I very much had the impression that Brennan was simply waiting for that name to drop (and tried HARD to dig it out of them) simply so he could have Steel say "Oh, if Sly told you that then I'm fully on board. I know he's legit" but that never happened... did that not seem like the clear outcome to everyone??

Kelsey Aeilts

Truly this story telling is so incredible. The dedication to each character and their histories/education is so well developed and informed. I just adore yall.

Dominic Corbin

We're having the EXPERIENCE of the weather. We can't just pretend we're objective observers!

Fynnch

Y’all actually have me worried that we’re gonna lose my favorite character!

Aabria Iyengar

It's not! I don't know if I ever directly quoted Tacitus when Brennan and I were brainstorming forever ago, but the full quote gives me away: They rob, slaughter, pillage and falsely call it "Empire", and where they make a desert they call it peace. Nice catch!

Cait Batchelor

Two things for Aabria 1) on behalf of my anxiety, your choices don’t have to be that big. Fucking hell. 2) I’m too inherently defiant is a fucking mood and I’d like it on a shirt please and thank you

RuviGaPo

I Love that this ep is Also u guys' favourite bc Immagine if it was just like "meh, i didn't care for it. Not my best work" fjgug This ep is Truly the coolest thing ive head in actual play in Years Probably

RuviGaPo

I'd be here for a musical episode 100%

Kater Trippe

Loving every moment. 😍 thanks y’all.

RuviGaPo

The fact that all three of them Lost their family, and all of them have an portunity to stay with/find their family Except for Ame? Fckn Heartbreaking y'all

Jessiye Davis

The small talk conversation is interesting because I have the ability to do it and I do but it’s not fulfilling. I want the deeper conversations. I want connections. Which is why how complex these characters are is so engaging.

Cait Batchelor

Also Brennan - railroads reduce anxiety is also a huge autistic mood - please all of you stop seeing me so completely

sabertruth19

The Wallaby/Walrus/Walleye, the Wiggle/Wait/Wonder, the Womp/Win/Whinge, the all elementals campaign of the Wind/the Wave/the Winter. The Wingman, the Watermelon, the Wasp, the Willow, the Writer, the Wanderer, The Whangdoodle (if you have not read The Last of the Really Great Whangdoodles, check it out!)

Beldaran

I love how much love everyone playing the game has for everyone else's decisions. It just makes the story that much more complicated and rich. I can't believe this is only second level, this is all so much for baby characters to be going though and it's a joyfully stressful experience to watch!

Katie

Sorry didn’t know I would be going to THERAPY this episode. Geez 😭💕

Luke Hampshire

You will be happy to know that this has already started me down an internet rabbit hole starting with The Last of the Really Great Whangdoodles and i truly cannot thank you enough for making this happen bc i am thoroughly enjoying myself

Luke Hampshire

wealth management consultant 😭😭

Nathan Pallotta

I do want to bring up a very obvious W word which is Warrior

#KittyLearnsToCook

If Steel thought Sly was working against Citadel interests, he could be rounded up too. Ame is watching wizards be dragged from their homes under suspicion of treachery all over, I understand why she would be concerned.

Hew, Witch of the Woven Word

Long time listener, first time commentor lol. Episode 22 was probably my favorite episode of the arc so far. Several times I got chills and at the end I think my chills had chills. Some of the stuff that I absolutely love about the show and about ttrpgs more broadly was also highlighted in this week's fireside and I just wanted shout out some of those pieces because this project is so rad. I think this episode really showcased why ttrpgs - within the right set and setting - are so powerful from a therapeutic standpoint because they have the potential to merge storytelling and play in a way that crosses so many facets of experience. When Erika and Brennan were discussing how the interaction between Ame and Mr. Callum pierced the veil, I couldn't help but think, "This is magic." It seemed like a moment that offered a deep reflection for Ame as a character, Erika as a player, and me as a listener. I am also blown away by how Aabria is playing Suvi. There are these moments when I absolutely love Suvi and then find myself screaming at some of the thoughts and choices she is making. Hearing Aabria share about the experience of playing Suvi and this deep of awareness of the character's strengths, growth edges, flaws, and beliefs is mind blowing because in play, it feels almost impossible to tease apart where Suvi ends and Aabria begins. With Lou, these moments of atmospheric and non-verbal character development and storytelling are so dope! I know this came up in the last fireside, but Lou has this amazing ability to express these moments in a way that is so beautiful and when you couple that with the sound design and Brennan's narration, it's just phenomenal. There's is something so powerfully energetic happening as I listen to these story beats. Okay, last note. Brennan mentioned something about crafting a world and letting the player's and the dice tell the story and I just want to echo how well that is done in this campaign. The world feels so alive and expansive and rich that I find my mind getting lost in imagining not only the places the characters have visited and heard of, but so much more about this world. It's just awesome and I love it. Can't wait for the finale of this chapter!

Daniel Richardson

But it's not like anything Ame had said had raised Steel's concerns. She was fine with Ame leaving and why, in principle. She just wanted to know more when she was told prophecy was involved, and she even made it clear it was out of concern for Ame's safety that wasn't being deceived even by mistake or accident. Mentioning Sly in that context wouldn't add any suspicion to him cuz Steel had no suspicion towards Ame but it would have helped Steel get over her ask of going to the diviner's court for confirmation, the very thing that led to the break between Ame and Suvi over following that request or not. I don't think Steel would have wanted that extra time if Sly were mentioned.

eileen (eepy)

"To Suvi, obedience is love. And a command is an act of love." BRENNAN LEE MULLIGAN I AM NOT IN THERAPY

eileen (eepy)

"doing things you don't want to do for other people is love" I need therapy oh my god

Excelsidorks!

This episode had me damn near calling out from work the next day! You all really are absolutely brilliant storytellers, and I adore how much trust is shared in between the group (Taylor included ❤️). These big moves, and the big hearts guiding them are allowing for just incredible moments. Can't wait to see what all is in store!

Sentimental Salamander

"Doing things you don't like for others is an act of love" Ah, there it is...

RuviGaPo

Omg it's been a Year dayum ??

Andrew, Crick Elf Monk, Way of the Honored Cock

It was such an incredible episode, Suvi broke my heart and I thanked her. It was such an incredible moment. Making that choice in that moment. Aabria is a master. Erika, has done an incredible job, while I haven't agreed with all of Ame's choices, but I can't fault their reasoning. There is something that can be said for a situation where you can understand all sides and what they did, and having such complex different beliefs and standpoints. Incredible Eurusulon is probably my favorite character in fiction rn. The layers of him that we will continue to see. I will chase to try to create a character similar to Eursulon for the rest of my life. 😍

Emory Russell

Every time I think I have a handle on the depth of this story y'all say something like this and I'm reminded that I'll never find the bottom, truly wonderful to behold

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

I experienced an Evan Kelmp snipe of my own during that Deep End of the Pool insight check 😬 as a serial people pleaser, I have recently had to acknowledge that when I feel I have misstepped or misspoken in a way that could hurt someone else, I have an overwhelming urge to approach the person to apologize or explain to make sure we are on the same page. however, in doing so, I had never stopped to consider whether: 1. that person is ready to have that conversation 2. that person is willing to have that conversation with ME, or 3. that person will experience any amount of the relief or closure that I do from the conversation in the first place and I wonder if maybe Ame, someone who also has an immensely small circle of loved ones due to circumstance, might have similar impulsive instincts as a result of a fear of abandonment. all of that to say: y’all’s storytelling is so incredibly poignant in ways that you may not even realize and I really, really appreciate you for it. anyway, ahoohoo, crackle crackle (Rum Sampson’s version)

Jules M.P.

Thanks! The idea of people deliberately making a desert struck an unnerving chord with me, too. Compliment time: I couldn't join this Patreon until the fall, so the public episodes were the jewel of my summer! Everyone at WBN is exceptional 🧡

Michael Delaney

I'm rewatching misfits and magic because my fav d20 seasons are my comfort shows and I THINK this is the first ttrpg with the WBN cast? Apart from Danielle lol

Elizabeth Boskey

The degree to which I felt called out in that chat when BLeeM said "doing what you don't want to do for people is how you show you love them." It put words to a break I've had with a friend in a very useful way. Annoyingly insightful.

Kimberly W

I love Brennan's discussion of choices and the weight of consequences. We all face choices, but aren't our choices just the consequences of other people's choices? If we are to accept responsibility for the choices people make in response to our actions, aren't other people responsible for our choices in response to their actions? Where are the lines between our choices and the choices that came before and the choices that come after? I thought someone might say it in the episode but not only must we consider our willingness to bear the weight of the consequences of our actions, but are we willing to bear the weight of the consequences of our inactions? Brennan said in a previous fireside that if Ame had hesitated in guiding Naram, there would have been devastating consequences. Inaction is just as consequential as action, so why not act and try our best to craft the consequences we are most willing to bear. God I love this show.

Andrew Garcia

This was honestly one of the best Fire Side Chats! I love getting to hear them parse out the “scenes” and decision making.

Joshua

There’s a level of mistrust for Steel due to her involvement and integration with the Citadel. As a person and a “Trusted Friend” Ame trusts Steel, but as a policial figure for the Citadel she’s naturally suspicious. Also, a witch drawing power from her secrets just like wizards is interesting. TBH, it feels kinda condescending the amount of double checking and waiting Steel is forcing on Ame. I understand Ame’s a new witch, but it seems like Steel values witchcraft less than wizardry, even if it’s subconscious. That also makes sense due to Steel being a powerful, high status Wizard who has fully drank the Citadel kool-Aid. Personally, I’ve had this whole suspicion of Steel from the beginning. I wonder if Steel double-crossed Suvi’s parents and threw Ueron under the bus. Idk. We only know to be true what Steel has told us.

Joshua

In-creadable

Daniel Richardson

Oh my god, to be honest I also had that same thought occur to me during a relisten! When Brennan mentions that it was only Euron and Steel with Suvis parents that night...

The Wizard Sardonic

"I don't consider myself a writer" hmmm sounds like something a writer would say 🤔

lunarsummer

Literally I was like "uhh okay Mr. Mulligan, beautifully done, you need to delete my therapist's number out of your phone now" 😂

Chris Caran

I loved Brennan's discourse on small talk.

Joy Dertinger

I previously used to get so angry at Suvi but the more I see her character arc the more I see myself in her—and the more I have compassion for her. She is responding in the way she was trained to. She also probably does NOT feel a lot of love because if the way to show someone love is by obedience, who else in her life would potentially obey her outside of Ame and Eurselon? And she mentioned that she almost never received a direct command, which is the other expression of love she’s been conditioned to experience. The similarities I (and I imagine loads of other folks) see between Suvi’s experiences and my own dogmatic upbringing are profound. And I hope Suvi finds a way to experience love that isn’t dogma. 💛

Alissa

Ya’ll better consider yourselves writers! WBN and other campaigns out there teach more about storytelling and character writing than half the writing resources I encounter. The monologues all of you pull from thin air are ✨

Cabbage

God yes I love deep intense philosophy, but I don't want to talk religion with a random guy at a coffee shop or a wedding! Please let's chat about the weather

Cabbage

The scope of this game didn't really sink in until I really processed, everything until Suvis naming is, for all real narrative purposes, introduction or even prolonged. Until Eursulon frees Naram is introduction or even prologue. We're BARELY out of prologue, twenty episodes in. Buckle. Up.

Zavier Raynor

I can NOT believe it’s been almost a year! That’s absolutely crazy, what a wild (hehe) and beautiful ride so far!

Mattathias Schwarany

During this whole episode, I was feeling like Ame seemed like "The Villain", because I very much identify with Suvi... "no one else cares about collateral damage", "why can't we talk about this?"... I don't identify with the 'animalistic panic', and that explains a lot... And I really appreciate the Firesides going over motivations... But I'm definitely in the "Suvi camp" on this one 😝

Randon Beasley

I get Suvi’s pov but Erika is right when Aabria goes into her lower register I instantly think “shits going down” and to me that was evil queen moment and I loved it

PT MacKim

I really resonate with what Erika says here about Choices. It’s better to commit to a “bad” choice that works for the character and story than to be so careful about making the “right” choice that nothing ever happens. Yet another thing from this episode & chat that feels true both in life and fiction!

Megan Bee

Brennan you were well within your rights to call that guy at the Shell a few choice words at that point oh my GOD

Zamp

Rum Samson briefly asks what would've happened if Eursulon had drawn steel after being caught by Citadel soldiers. The first two arcs have mostly treated violence really carefully and with great weight: only Suvi has a kill with her own hands, for example. But... there's also a lot of discussion about how 'the business of Empire' includes airships and martial law, and now the War is starting up again. So my question is... War against whomst? *Who is the Citadel fighting, and why?*

Zamp

Suvi also has a home life! We have gotten to see Sonder, as well as Steel's other children (Cadilla and Yshra, according to the wiki). I think those relationships are pretty conventionally wholesome.

susan tiss

"If you respect me, you will help me understand what is happening." Oof. Yeah.

Stag Hart (Deer Deer)

I find Suvi such an interesting character because I rarely agree with her actions in the moment but I *never* disagree with Aabria. Like I'm a big fan of the hobo wizard, the spell caster who's bending of reality and defiance of the rules of the world is- casting fireball on a budget. And in this world- that's a hedgemage, something Suvi looks down on and mocks the efforts of, but I fully support Aabria in having Suvi have that perspective. It makes sense, it adds an interesting angle and elite nature to our wizard. It's great. This carries over into everything Suvi does, I so badly want this mage to see the programming of the Empire, the fact that Morrow isn't a product of the Empire but of the Citadel, that most wizards she's met and even befriended would absolutely take out Ame and capture Eursulon if given the chance, etc etc. but that would be too quick, she's level 2, let's have party conflict, let's have real time which this upbringing and world view, and as Aabria has said- Suvi isn't being communicated to in a way she understands, so her differing perspective only gets further from Ame and Ursulon.

Sil

Wait. Wait, wait, WAIT, fkn HOLD THE PHONE. "Straight up, I'll remind you, WBN is an anthology..." yea, OK I knew that. "... steer the car into a TPK," OK ominous and threatening... "...AND START AABRIA'S CAMPAIGN" I'M SORRY, FKN WHAT, TELL ME MORE, TELL ME NOW, TELL ME EVERYYYTTHHIIING I WILL FIGHT A WIZARD WHOSE HAD 8HRS WARNING WITH MY FISTS AND I AM A WITCH BY TRADE.

The Wizard Syndicate

I hate to be misunderstood. Someone using my words out of context or in a way outside of my intended use literally brings a tear to my eye sometimes. This is actually linked to what they talked about with small talk. I’ve been in customer service and customer facing jobs for 15 years now. You learn to chat with people. But it’s not the best for me. I prefer to go deep with people. But when I was on dating apps the worst people I ever talked to were the ones who said they “hated small talk” it just meant they couldn’t hold a conversation. You have to start small with everyone. “What kind of movies do you like.” “What kind of pets do you like?” Then from there you can find how comfortable they are, find out who they are and meet them where they’re at. This does 2 things. It lets them feel comfortable with you, and lets you know if they’re someone who it is safe to give your thoughts and words and feelings. It’s not fair to every person you meet to ask them what they think happens after they die. Or if they’ve thought about how the universe will end. “What’s the purpose of morality?” “Sir this is a Wendy’s.” You don’t know that person, and you don’t know what that will trigger in them. If you want to build community and find others of a like mind, you have to have somewhere safe to start then you can build from there. High concept conversations and deep thoughts need a strong bedrock of understanding. My hatred of being misunderstood is probably why I’m so on Suvis side here. “Just talk to me” “explain whatever this is”. The other two are so quick to leave that they don’t see her pain over the choices they’ve made. Aabria said that Suvi feels like she’s the only one that cares about human casualties. And considering what happened in port Talon with the River killing hundreds, and neither Urselon nor Ame showing any real hurt or pain or fear from causing that, I don’t think she has any reason to think otherwise. The Empire and the Citadel will eventually show themselves to be corrupt in a way that only imperialism can. But I truly believe that nothing has happened to any of these characters to make them distrust it as much as they seem to, and since none of them are talking to Suvi she is constantly on the outside of her group. Hopefully soon they’ll be able to see eye to eye on a lot of this l, but for now they’re all 3 on different levels and until they do actually talk they’re in trouble.

The Wizard Syndicate

“Sorry for the long letter, I didn’t have time to make it shorter”

The Wizard Syndicate

I love y’all’s work and love to think about all the stuff y’all explore here. Currently there are no heroes, and it’s interesting to see how this will all go.

Alex Robinson

100%. It was such a weird thing to do, especially since Sly never asked for them to keep his name out of it or anything like that.

Emergency Santa

Do we know how long the break before part 3 Will be?

Gordon

First off love this show love these people love this story. Second I’m with Brennan on I’ll follow these players wherever they wanna go. But just a quick note, Ame is taking the Wizard Sly’s prophecy about as seriously as holy writ. Which explains her urgency to leave… DID SHE FORGET ABOUT THE PART WHERE SLY SAYS IF YOU DONT BRING SUVI YOU WILL DIE?? That was my biggest concern from this episode. I know Ame is compelled to run off and do her own thing. But if she was so willing to go to such lengths because she would be destroyed by her coven, I feel like she should’ve been equally concerned about leaving and leaving in a way that would allow Suvi to come cause either way she dies. She doesn’t make the meeting she dies. She makes the meeting but without Suvi, she dies. But hey like Brennan said if they wanna steer the car into a TPK I’ll be equally as excited for Abria’s campaign 😈🥰

Jess Mosher

positively charged? you could say this episode was “ion”-ic

Chloe Nolet

Remember tho, it’s if Suvi doesn’t come to the north that Ame dies. Ame was leaving to go to toma, probably assuming that suvi would get there and/or they would reconnect before going to the north because she believes that suvi would never let them go alone after hearing that prophecy.

The Ugly Goblin

God damn balling my eyes out at Eursulon's reunion T_T

Rafael C

Damn Brennan's read of Suvi. Also it hurts how much of myself I see in Suvi, when I also see a lot of Ame and Eursulon in myself and value those characteristics a lot more in comparison....... oof anyway. that's on Me procrastinating listening to this one out of Fear (yeah I fear talkbacks not episodes)

Gordon

I hear that. I just find it difficult to see how they would reconnect when Steel couldn’t guarantee the safety of travel and so now how does she get to Toma? And her and Eursalon admit they haven’t even thought about the poles of their world before that conversation so how would she get there? I know Ame being rash and having quest fever is apart of her character and Erika is doing a wonderful job of playing her. I just thought this running off and rush was a little unwarranted

Just_another_queer

Everyone flood the insta live to get them to agree to do a musical episode in the way we got Cram Daniels

Lucas Sharrett

So excited for the musical episode 😁😁😁

Derrick Donaldson

I'm shocked more comments aren't clamoring for this. Maybe as an interstitial episode between arcs, invite Zach Reino (I know I've seen him on some RPG live shows) and Jess McKenna to participate in a musical/RPG one shot.

Lucas Sharrett

Ommmggggg or they could go on Zach and Jess' podcast for a musical episode! Tho I do think Off Book is on hold 😅. But I don't think they'll be having guests on the main feed show, NADDPOD stopped doing main feed guests because the scheduling is just too heard, especially for multiple episodes. But maybe you're right and we've got a chance for a musical interstitial episode one shot! Would love to see that, although I do love the simplicity and comfort of just the four of them, it makes it feel a little special you know? Maybe Zach and Jess can coach the episode 🤣 omg and they'd need Scott Pasarela on the keys, that would be CRAZY sounds like a big project 😄.

Erika Iverson

Just saw Off Book live in Brooklyn!

Lucas Sharrett

They're so incredible!!!💕💕💕💕

Glue Wilson

sorry still sobbing 20 minutes later at "to suvi, obedience is love"- thinking especially in this time about how many places of the world that are near to or currently in war and how much obedience is the only means to survival at those times! also loving the kind of mutually exclusive (but also not) idea that, as aabria has said several times, the main times that suvi has gotten near-pvp with the other pcs is when she is the one person in the trio who is not privy to what is going on and she feels disregarded & left behind (see: quest fever discourse)- which suggests that she does NOT have love for the witch & wild one based in obedience but rather in mutual understanding and companionship. !!! bc if her love was based in obedience then she wouldve just followed them no question, but instead she feels hurt by the fact that they seem to both make a decision that makes no sense to suvi without giving her any explanation as to why. ultimately i think that every pc's decisions in this episode made sense based on their personal value and context, but i particularly cant get over the complexity of suvi in the decisions she makes here and just ARGHG

Mary W

Gotta say I think one of the things that made me cringe/frsurated at Ame giving Mr Callum a crisis, is that my brain can’t get over the idea that yes technically that baker is a Cantrip but to me I’m just like AME HE IS AT WORK WHY ARE YOU ASKING DEEP QUESTIONS TO SOMEONE WHO IS PERFORMING A SERVICE FOR YOU. My retail job days are projecting because I’m Like no no oh god this is not the time Ame he cannot leave this interaction because he’s working and he has to figure out how to answer in a way that please you The Customer but also yes he’s trying to have internal thing about himself. Like he didn’t come to Ame with a problem he’s just here to make tarts don’t do him like that 🤣

Lindsey Folzenlogen

The way I took it was Ame didn't bring up Sly to Steel because of how the other Wizards treated the Diviners. She felt Steel would take her answer of an important Diviner and true friend to Grandmother Wren better than a specific person. I honestly understand this take on it; if someone ridicules the individual you trust, you're not going to then bring up the individual by name as ammo to garner the ability to leave.

William F Schar

When Suvi said " bring them to me" I said out loud, "aw man, Suvi startin' her villain arc!"

Toe

re-listening to this and i must voice my support for a musical episode (or game??) one day. and in fact i dare you.

brewnhilda

I've never met Brennan but the pool analogy really felt like a personal attack

kaguya_yoru

Less than an hour before I'm about to get in my car to go play my first D&D game, I'm getting emotional over Brennan's analysis of Suvi's idea of love and how it ties into obedience. I just love how deep this cast is willing to get in these fireside chats; they are worth every single penny and then some. ❤️

Dukinator

this podcast is goated

Moss

holy shit that analysis from brennan connected love and obedience in suvi… i had to stop quilting and just sit there in it.

Kimberly Spirdione

I feel like Steel saying, "with time wizards win" and Ame having her fantasy of the Citadel shattered by watching people get dragged from their homes, plus the cruel treatment of spirits, made Ame realize how much danger she was in, not just as a person but specifically as a witch in the Citadel (I think Erika said as much in the episode.) I had the thought of "if they don't leave now they really can't, not in three days, cause the Citadel will have that shit locked down efficiently by then and/or they'll be buried in bureaucracy." I do wish she had waited the hour it took for Steel to come back but considering how condescending people are towards Ame, specifically as a witch, I don't blame her for panicking and taking off. Ame doesn't have the rep and presence Grandma Wren had to throw around, so I think her attempts at asserting herself didn't work the way she thought they would. And Erika said, too, Steel's loyalty is always to the Citadel, so if they say Ame can't leave Steel would do just about anything to keep her there. There's a lot more at stake than just Ame's life, there's a bunch of witches Ame has to advocate for humans to or they might do some fucked up shit. So yeah, I was definitely like "PLEASE WAIT" but if I was in that situation I'd probably run (especially for Eursulon's safety, cause the wizard's could figure out he was a spirit pretty quick.)

Kimberly Spirdione

the neurodivergence absolutely radiating off this show is making me feel seen in a way I love and am running away from lol

Kimberly Spirdione

absolutely stupendous, Brennan needs to kill them asap so we can see the art you make for the next arc lol /j

Kimberly Spirdione

I feel like people are quick to dismiss Ame's fears and risk taking behavior, but like, the primary issue Ame has is trusting the systems at the Citadel not only to work but to work fairly. She has seen enough stuff even before coming to the Citadel to give her reason to doubt their intentions and efficacy, especially because Eursulon has a target on his back as a glamoured spirit. And being told you could die in three days is gonna drive a lot of reason out of your head, especially from someone your mentor and parent trusted and recommended to you as an ally. Steel is a trusted friend as well, but she's literally head cog in the military machine that is the Citadel. I'm gonna trust the guidance of the disrespected and marginalized over those with authority and influence, bc one is very invested in the system continuing and other one isn't.

Jamjo

"Doing things you don't want to do for people is how you show you love them." Hey Brennan, please exit my head. Thank youuuuuuu.

Emily C

Dec 2024 re-listening checking in: I think Steel was so focused on protecting Ame and making sure she was fine, maybe it didn't sound to Ame like Steel understood how the conclave matters beyond only Ame. Like Steel is focused on winning Ame is focused on her duties.

Claire

Man I'm catching up on these alternating main pod and fireside, listening on 1.25 or 1.5 and the energy is incredible. It feels like the rest of the cast has joined Erika on their natural state of hyperactive goblin on drugs. I cannot listen to it at a normal speed anymore

Glass_Half_Awesome

The way Suvi said “Bring them to me” and then MOMENTS later Aabria whooped and cheered for Lou’s 31 was so fuckin great. What a clear display of acting talent and emotional separation/regulation. And frankly, a lovely little reassurance insert for me, the listener, who often has to remind myself that all the real people at the table are 100% still great friends and having fun, even when their characters are making CHOICES.

orion

absolutely wrecking me with the commands are an expression of love and obedience is one too analysis. once again feeling the feelings about childhood at the fireside

icesquirrel

Incredible and devastating character work!!!! love how much care and talent this podcast has! I can’t stop thinking about Aabria explaining that Suvi understands love through the lens of obediance😭😭😭 and how she feels isolated from her friends’ logic and choices. I need to sit down.

icesquirrel

“hold up our head with our very own neck” + side eye pause. cackling

Abby Jasumback

Suvi is def a Korra ass bitch and I LOVE that

ari warren

okay im a whole year late but i need to speak my mind into the void. really feeling like there is a major piece missing in the convo here around why ame needed to leave. we just saw the citadel go full facist police state mode (dragging people out of their homes) and the cassaov collection (a whole system of enslaving spirits) so this whole 'just wait a little longer' thing is not like,,, a fair ask? just like before - naram is being tortured 'oh just wait a little longer and we will handle it' ame and the world are in grave danger 'oh just wait a little longer and we'll handle it'. like this bureaucracy imposing its timeline onto them is part of the justification machine!!! 'calm down and wait so that we can justify everything and control you' so the idea that ame just waited more and it would've all been fine is bs bc theres no world where the imperial machine just allows them free.

Alyssa

As someone who didn’t start listening to the firesides until episode 40 and am now backtracking and re-listening…firesides like this truly make me have an even deeper appreciation and understanding of the characters and the wonderful people who craft them. 💜

Zephry Wright

I partially agree in terms of her frustration with not understanding and throwing power around but Suvi is a citadel wizard who takes time to collect information to fit and follows orders and Korra gets wrist fever 100% of the time And I saw this as a die hard Korra defender

Frosty

I know I'm so late to the party, but Brennan casually dropping real life bombshell wisdom about the deep end of the pool in game changed the course of my day today. I had to have a deep end conversation with my partner about it. How's that for a 24, indeed! Also the character conflict in this episode broke my heart, and it's so wonderful to have the opportunity to listen to the out of character perspectives on all the choices made. I am so stoked to get caught up on this story!

jasperthedapper

Thinking about a close up of Suvi for the lyric 'choose me or' and then it swaps to Ame wreathed in flame back to Suvi 'your pyre'

Nym

Hearing this conversation about “what if we’d fucked off and gone after Eiorghan (sp 🤷🏻‍♀️) makes me want a WWW Renegade play through tree where the characters all make the worst choices 😂

Nym

(Hello from the void! 👋) Completely understand that viewpoint, but you have to remember that we have the benefit of an audience perspective. If you’re over at your best friend’s house and are like “I GOTTA LEAVE NOW TO GO DO THIS VAGUE BUT WORLD IMPORTANT THING” and your best friend’s mom is like “hold on, what? Let’s calm down; give me the bigger picture,” and you’re not confident about trusting your gut in the face of opposition yet, you’re going to fret over it - especially if you and your bestie are on thin ice about you doing this once before. Suvi is fully inside the machine; she can’t see it, and Ame isn’t accustomed to opposing Suvi yet, especially having just spent a cozy couple of weeks in this place and not knowing all the rules. Ame’s trauma is trying not to offend people she loves so they won’t leave her. But at the same time now she knows she needs to go, and the important thing is that she ultimately does

Steph Sokol

Just like... what did Suvi think Sly meant by "you won't receive permission to come"? That Steel would... uh, do anything but order her to stay? Feels like a fairytale test that Suvi failed hard lol. Love how it all turned out tho!

Natecharodon

God I love the noise Aabria makes when something dumb as hell like "the Wizard the Watch and the Walrus" gets said. It's like someone punched her in the sternum.

Millie Boulton

I am in the middle of my relisten and this conversation hits differently

Saoirse

This is such an interesting TalkBack to listen to after finishing the full Book 1 campaign + the Other Tomorrows, where we find out what would have happened had Ame stayed and waited for Steel.

Saoirse

I gotta give Aabria so much respect for being so committed to playing Suvi, her formative years and the person they made her, the justification machine singing in her head, what it means to grow up in a place with as much wonder and abundance but also power and control as the Citadel, and the intelligence to come up with a reasonable explanation for just about anything.

Saoirse

I found Suvi a difficult character many times in the campaign, but the truth is I see aspects of my younger self in her -- particularly the need for a rational explanation for everything. It's a perfectly reasonable desire, and yet...you can make all sorts of horrors sound rational and necessary with the right language, and conversely sometimes you know something is right or wrong and can't explain it rationally.

Jamie ßuçklānđ

Ive just started listening recently, so very late to this party. I think for me there were 2 things that weren't really addressed when talking about the breakdown between Suvi and Ame. One is going back to arc one, there is discussion that Suvi can beat Ame in a discussion. Of course Suvi wants to talk things out, she is intelligent and she can talk things through in such a way that her way is the rational and reasonable one. Ame doesn't have the intelligence to match that, but she knows in her heart/gut what is right. We have seen that Suvi can justify some of the pretty horrible things that we have seen from the empire, so just because she can talk about something untill it's rational doesn't mean that it is the right thing. The other thing mentioned by Abria is that Suvi thinks she is the only one of the 3 who cares about human casualties, but she cares about humans over and above anything else. She doesn't have the same care for the spirits who are imprisoned. Ame has said that by her station she needs to care for both.

Jamie ßuçklānđ

Except I think there is something missing here. In arc one it is discussed that Suvi can talk circles around Ame. Suvi is more intelligent, and she can use that to push Ame around in conversation, even if Ame knows in her heart what the right thing to do is.

Osmomosis

I don't usually listen to the firesides because I like the momentum of listening to the main episodes back to back, this one! As soon as the episode ended I knew I had to hear their thoughts about it. This episode was beautifully heavy, and hearing their head spaces around their decisions depends the already deep experience. I should have known this one was going to be gold after Brennan read all our souls with the pool analogy lol

Osmomosis

Yes! I felt the same way!

Josh

suvi is distinctively on board until there are consequences for her. this is not the first time that she has acted this way.

Margarida Baptista

Literally 😭😭 So much talking about sniping your own insecurities through character analysis between Brennan and Erika - BRENNAN YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO DO IT TO THE LISTENERS TOO!!

Elizabeth Horn

As a young person who struggled with lots of social cues, making friends, oversharing, etc. the thing that helped me most with small talk was hearing my linguistics lecturer describe it as “verbal cuddling”. Similar to the discussion of how we aren’t LOGIC brains of pure reason in the previous ep, she explained we don’t just have conversations to provide and receive new information, but to engage in ritual, connection, social safety, etc. I think she compared it to the kind of care apes engage in when grooming each other/picking insects out of each other’s coats, and that image has stayed with me in the loveliest way ❤️