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Episode 121 -- (Moira's in) The Epstein Files (Patreon)

Published:
2026-02-10 22:50:53
Imported:
2026-09

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Content

The Epstein files are many things: a study in elite impunity, a deep core sample of societal misogyny, a record of institutional failure. But they also give us a fascinating, if terrifying, alternate story of #MeToo and what came after. For this episode, Moira and Adrian take the recent drop of several million more pages of Epstein emails--and Moira's walk-on cameo in them--to think about networked antifeminism, #MeToo backlash, the traffic in women as social lubricant, and the solidarity of (allegedly, allegedly, allegedly) predatory men.

Comments

Bree Davies

Omg THANK YOU Moira for being one of the few voices brave enough to call this what it is- the rape of children

Joy

Actually spit out my dinner at the tag line when Adrian said and “we’re… in the Epstein files”! I had really been hoping you’d both dive into this. I have appreciated Moira’s reporting on it in the Guardian and this episode. Thank you for doing this reporting especially since the silence in the media on this topic has been rather … loud.

Carly Christine

Absolutely essential listening. Holding you in my heart, Moira. Thank you both for always being the adults in the room.

JanaKat

This is so bleak and I'm so sorry. Regarding the recent right/centrist PR strategy of trying to simply dismiss child rape as acceptable. I'll admit my thought has been that they know most people find that abhorrent, and are instead trying to destroy our hope - just reminding us all that they, the ones who hold the institutional power, think it's okay, and their word is reality. Same logic as the ICE crackdown in Minnesota, just an unmitigated display of power through fear. As with ICE in Minnesota, I'm fervently hoping that this is overreach and will come back to bite them.

Moira Donegan

Everyone has to say “Moira, you’re so brave” and “Moira, we feel very bad that you suffered for the sake of righteousness.” It’s in my contract.

Elizabeth De Coster

Moira you're so brave and also kudos that neither of you yarfed over these names for an hour.

kathleen

I sat here trying to come up with something to say other than a mash-up of every Raised Catholic expression of "oh my god" and got nowhere. So anyway. Jesus Suffering Christ Almighty, Mary mother of God and Saint Joseph. Moira, I'm thankful for your courage and your work. I'm also thankful you and Adrian made this podcast episode.

kathleen

Oh. And these messages explain why tech quadrillionaires and the c-suite class think AI is a magic do-everything machine. The way they write horrified my former Comp 101 teaching self. Good gracious, fellas. It's not that hard to be coherent in written communication!

William Knight

Possibly helpful context about Starr he was the president (?) of Baylor university taken down by Me Too over his covering up of campus sexual abuse and is probably speaking to Epstein in this capacity.

Sierra Wilson

The title ix case Kenneth Star was involved with was at Baylor (my Alma mater), where Starr was president until he stepped down during the scandal that he and the football coach and athletic program covered up sexual assaults abd other crimes by football players. This also ended up bringing to light how Baylor used its religious morality codes against victims. This was after my time there, but at least one person who sued Baylor is someone I went to school with. And yet somehow I’m still horrified Kenneth Starr was emailing Epstein.

Sierra Wilson

Moira you ARE so brave. This has to have been harrowing to find out!

Moira Donegan

Solidarity to the women assaulted at Baylor, who not only had their university betray and conspire against them, but now have to learn that Jeffrey Epstein was conscripted to Help.

Sierra Wilson

didn’t see your comment before I came to say the same thing. Cursed to also know The Context. He was indeed the president.

A Felt

Genuinely thank you for your courage and integrity. It’s an inspiration and listening to this podcast always makes processing the awfulness of our world a bit more bearable.

Emily

I have a million things I want to say. Most of all, Moira: please be gentle with yourself and let others care for you while you're processing this nightmare. I'm reminded of a piece of wisdom I heard from Rhiannon Hamam: they wouldn't have targeted you if they weren't terrified of your power.

Charley

The great “protector of women and girls” Wizard Lady is also in the files…terfism in a nutshell. Look after your mental health Moira during this 💜

Caroline

Can we crowdfund to get Moira’s money back from that guy/those lawyers? Maybe Taylor Swift might fun you given she helped fund Kesha. Also, is it worth doing a follow up on the fallout in other countries? Here in the UK, the PM is under pressure to resign over appointing a US Ambo with well documented friendship with Epstein (Mandelson has a weird hold over the Labour Party imagination that is probably worth a PhD thesis) but seems to be one of the few world leaders who has no connection to him whatsoever. It seems bizarre that he would be the only to face consequences from the connection (or, him and the publicist Chappell Roan fired).

priscilla standridge

Does anyone know where I can watch the Seattle Seagrass game?

Kim

I worked with SO’s and then worked with trafficking survivors so I’ve kind of seen both sides of it. I have no interest in digging through the psyches of these men. It kind of makes me nauseous to even think about this point.

typzk

Is it reasonable to ponder the male loneliness thing in conjunction with the "Epstein the confidant" piece? He seemingly had figured out that he could gain a lot of power and wealth by providing these men with the 'uncensored' bro-ship they were starving for. Like, yes he was a creep, yes he was a misogynist, but also maybe he kinda took advantage of an open lane?

Amie Hamilton

This was a great episode, thank you! I am so glad you raised Krauss... I would really love for Moira and Rebecca Watson to be on a podcast together to discuss the experience of being specifically named and villified in the Epstein files. Rebecca has a long history of holding men in science accountable, particularly in the sceptics movement. She wrote about Kraus and actively worked to have him held accountable for his behaviors. She suffered horrific backlash by men, while being told that sexism doesn't actually exist in science/sceptics/atheist movements.

Caitie

Especially after this, you guys really don’t need to watch Melania. Be kind to your own brains!

Louzie

even without the contract, you are, and you deserve to hear it from all of us!

Rosie

Oh my god yes what is going on (fellow UK dweller)

Rosie

Hearing an expanded version of the story made me cry with pride. Moira, you are amazing. We are very lucky to parasocially paraknow you.

Dylan Stephens

I was just thinking to myself that I wanted a Moira lore episode after hearing the bit where there was a character on The Good Fight based on her. I feel like this was a *monkey paw curls* response from the world. That said this was a fascinating episode which cuts away a lot of the bullshit that reporting about the files has focused on and keeps a close lens on the harm that these men were causing.

OuijaFBabysMama

The complete dejection in some of Adrian’s “yea”s after a Moira revelation need to be turned into like a meme for the show like drop it in all the time it is such a great, like, verbal version of an Ally Snap or whatever but (sad version)

Moira Donegan

Often people who have worked with SOs find them *less* sympathetic than the general public does. I’m thinking of Lundy Bancroft here.

William Knight

You provided much better info, thanks for fleshing out the details!

OuijaFBabysMama

Wow absolutely standing clapping at the end

OuijaFBabysMama

So proud of your clarity and directness and the joy you can brng to such fucking darkness

basil water

Moira you are such a personal hero of mine! It is awful that you had to undergo so much personal suffering in pursuit of any kind of justice in this bleak world but it's also so rare in this age to actually see a person work so hard to carry the justice through rather than backing down or capitulating. I'm so grateful for your vulnerability and I appreciated this episode so much!

Kim

It’s definitely tough, because you have to thread a needle between moralization and recognizing real pathology in peoples behavior. That being said, there were a decent number that really weren’t “pedophiles“ but were instead using power. It’s really hard to figure out where the pathology starts and the misogyny and society dehumanization of women, girls, and femmes ends. I do have to say that it was a lot easier to intellectualize prior to working with trafficking survivors. Especially younger girls.

Ren

I don't know if y'all are familiar with the reporting of Ryan Broderick of Garbage Day (for those who don't know, his beat is the intersection of the global right and tech/the internet), but in his last patron-only episode of his podcast Panic World, he makes an imo powerful case that much of the deliberate destruction of worldwide democracy since 2017 was a conscious plan made by Epstein and Steve Bannon specifically to create a world in which Epstein and those like him would not be held to account. Broderick's thesis is that Epstein was so freaked out by the possibility of a world in which women and children could get the smallest slice of justice for the things men have done to them, that he decided to use both his fortune and his immense web of connections to fund most of the far-right cultural campaigns around the world. I realize this sounds like the kind of conspiracy theory that we mock coming from the right, and Broderick is very clear that he doesn't have all the necessary information yet to completely prove this (there's connective tissue that hasn't been found yet) but there's enough evidence that the way he outlines it seems terrifyingly plausible to me. In my opinion, paying the $5 to get access to the episode here on Patreon is well worth it, and I would encourage Moira and/or Adrian (as well as interested listeners) to have a listen because he hasn't published this yet in a written form and I think this context would be really helpful to you.

Ren

Moira, I know what you've been through doesn't compare to what Epstein's child victims have endured, but you're still one of his victims and I am so sorry you had to find out first-hand how far powerful, evil men will go to protect themselves. I hope having the context you've gained from this revelation will help you in some way. .Your courage is inspiring to me. And Adrian, I'm so glad we have men like you in the world. We need you badly.

Ren

Pretty sure Moira has talked about it in earlier patron-only episodes so if you keep listening to the backlog, you should find it eventually.

rock dove

You ARE so brave! I have a vague recollection of the shitty media men list (I was 20 in 2017 so I don't remember much about that time lol) and other high profile Me Too efforts. It definitely had an impact on me and my friends and our own attempts to keep each other safe from abusive men. We ended up not being very successful but your work and the work of like you did help us to attempt to create whisper networks and do what we could for survivors. You really lived the nightmare in terms of backlash for your work. I have so much respect for you, thank you for continuing to speak out. I am so so angry.

Karen Cox

This was your best episode ever, and I love every episode you’ve ever recorded.

Dylan Stephens

Thanks! I’ve been perusing the backlogs and hearing that story is what piqued my interest in hearing about Moira‘s history in the popular media.

SLP

Wow! A very close to home ep for me. When I was working on my PhD (grad in 2010), L. Krauss was giving the end-of-year colloquium and I was excited, so so excited. I had read his books, I was a fan. So I insisted that I be a mic person, running around the room at the end of the talk to amplify all the questions. And lucky me, I was able to meet him before his talk. Yay! ... He was not interested in my questions, my curiosity. He instead, when we met, grabbed my arm and asked about my tattoo, kept stroking my arm, asking what it meant. It was and is a chrysanthemum - not complicated. I can't describe the rest of the interaction but I knew men at that point in my life (hetero here) and he made me feel sick.

Brian

Re: Adrian’s point about the abuse of girls as the primary vector for business among these people, I really suggest anyone interested read Kimberly Hoang’s “Dealing in Desire”. It’s not one-to-one, I don’t remember any explicit reference to the abuse of minors in the text, but it’s a great study of exactly the ways in which men use illegal and often immoral activity around drugs sex and women to secure bonds of mutually assured destruction that facilitate equally illegal and/or immoral business deals.

Cool Bag

The excellent YouTuber Shaun has a video about The War on Science that came out last year. Would recommend it - it’s four hours long because there are so many horrible people to talk about, but not a lot of visuals so you can listen to it like a podcast basically.

Christine

Wow. This inspired me to search for names from my field, some abusers and some who cover for abusers. I didn’t find any personal correspondence but I did find participant lists and speaker lists for events Epstein attended or was invited to. Very interesting.

Christine

Gross. I’m sorry this happened to you.

Ren

Love Shaun and that video in particular was so good.

OuijaFBabysMama

I really cannot stress enough how I cannot stop listening to this over and over again. It is so reaffirming to hear this analysis and your journey Moira. Proud to know both of your work and hope you both continue to take care of yourselves as you make work like this. Sending my love and strength.

sonorasgirl

I tried listening to Central Air and in two episodes, various hosts on there were absolutely VILE about women and MeToo. I like some of his legal podcasts, but I feel like Josh Barrow keeps showing more and more signs of misogyny via the guests he has and the sh*t he doesn’t push back on, cause when he disagrees with someone he WILL push back a lot. It’s…frustrating and making it so I don’t really go to his stuff nearly as much, even though I enjoyed ‘All the Presidents’ Lawyers’. I’ve kinda replaced it with What can Roman Mars Learn about ConLaw and Legal Eagle stuff instead.

sonorasgirl

Also accidentally self-censored shit and then realized…this is Patreon 😂

Ben Alpers

Some additional context to the (Nov 2016) appearance of Ken Starr in the Epstein emails that you discussed: just a few months earlier, in June, 2016, Starr had been effectively forced out as Chancellor of Baylor University (a post he had been in since 2010). The reason for his ouster? His participation in BU covering up rapes and other acts of sexual violence by male Baylor athletes.

Moira Donegan

Thank you, Mary! It means a lot. 🥹

Cat

Moira, I had no idea what you'd been through. Thank you thank you thank you for continuing to push, for not retreating, for speaking out, for laughing at them. For making this podcast. Thank you, Moira!

Lucy Sakiewicz

Just thinking about how I started at Baylor when Ken Starr took office as president. Everything y’all were talking about surrounding the title IX lawsuit was related to rape, physical abuse, etc surrounding Baylor athletes. Drugs, abuse, guns, money, everything, (importantly they all lived off campus)It was occurring during the years I was there. I was in classes, an observer of athletes and via friends and classes. It fucking tracks he was asking Epstein for advice. The line regarding ‘off campus is important’ made me sick because that’s just such the environment at Baylor.

Kiera

About to listen to this episode again 🩷 Love your work so much. Moira, especially in awe of your strength. Thank you for continuing to push through and providing us with your invaluable insights. I know I speak for us all when I say we are smarter and more prepared to navigate the current political moment after listening to you.

Janelle

God, had no idea you were targeted like this. It’s hard not be conspiratorial when over and over again the worst things in this planet are shown to be the direct result of this exact group of creeps.

j c

Just wanted to thanks to Moira and Adrian for speaking very lucidly about the meaning of sexual violence in this and other episodes. It has genuinely helped me get a better perspective on my own experiences and how they fit into the broader context, and unfortunately even hearing you guys say that sexual violence is despicable and should never be tolerated, end of story, is something that shockingly few people are willing to say.