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Episode 140 -- Lena Dunham (Patreon)

Published:
2026-06-23 04:52:23
Imported:
2026-09

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For this episode, Adrian and Moira discuss the life, career and (many, many) opinions of Lena Dunham -- creator of Girls, writer of memoirs and the face that launched a million think-pieces in the 2010s. They touch on the gendered attacks, the question of maturity and accomplishment, and about the conspicuously different reception Dunham's new memoir has received when compared to her earlier work.

Comments

Kathryn Nadkarni

I’m so excited to listen tomorrow! In the interest of striking while the iron’s hot, an unsolicited idea from the audience for a pod episode: the Dallas cowboys cheerleaders, or maybe even the documentary series about them on Netflix specifically. It is all so entertaining and FASCINATING from maaaany a lens. Appreciate your work! 🫶

OhLordyAmina

I might have to recuse myself from this episode (I’m still gonna listen to it, lol). but I’m generally over these sort of “White women redemption arcs” that have been part of media for forever. I do think a large portion of the hate she received was unreasonable especially in regards to the attacks on her body and how she displayed it in Girls, but a lot of media critics and these, “we were too harsh on Lena Dunham” takes completely ignore not only the racism and erasure of an ethic New York but her defense of Murray Miller whom was accused of assault by a Black actress Aurora Perrineau. Is she a talented writer? Of course, but there is this deep, deep ignorance in how White Women are able to navigate Hollywood and fame in a way Black Women will never be able to get away. *This is my knee jerk reaction without having fully listened to this episode.* Also, there is a sort of case study to be made how Lena Dunham and her transgressions were received vs Lizzo and how her transgressions were received. These are both women in more recent pop culture history that were audacious with their bodies and had a “thin line between love and hate” quality about them. No hate, these are just things I observe because I consume what would be called, “white media” and “black media” very equally; the hypocrisies can be very glaring when you do so. Like I wonder if there would be a version of “Girls” created and starring a fully Black woman cast.

Kayla Patrick

YES you're so right about the resentment of dunham's physicality/ability to take up space! even as a teen who hadn't watched girls but was aware of her antics, i had SUCH strong feelings about dunham and a lot of it was rooted in this sense of unfairness. it felt so crazy to me that she was "allowed" to be this (in my evil teenaged mind) abject lumpy buffoon and remain famous but i felt like i was actively being punished for very minor social transgressions as a girl/soon to be adult woman of color. it was really all projection and not something dunham could have opted in or out of to the benefit of women of color, but i hated her for it!

OhLordyAmina

And speaking of “women that were wronged in the 90s” I wish someone would do a podcast or documentary on Robin Givens. She was horribly abused by Mike Tyson and she is still a pariah.

Athina

I love that show but that Adrian Daub is so annoying✌️

Rosie

😆

Charlotte

One thing that I really like about this show is that the topic can be whatever and not sound like it's of any interest to me, but when I listen it's absolutely extremely of interest to me! As was the case with this episode.

Kasspatz

Thanks for another great episode! I loved Moira’s framing of that era in terms of there having been two avenues open to young female aspiring writers: humiliating sexual confessional pieces on the one hand and Lena Dunham hate rants on the other. If you wanted your byline, you had to give the industry its pound of flesh in the form of a woman’s dignity, one way or another. Remember when Jezebel offered a cash reward for the un-retouched photos of Lena Dunham from her Annie Leibovitz photo shoot, ostensibly for feminist reasons? The visceral hatred for this woman in supposedly feminist spaces to this day shocks me every time I encounter it…

Heidi Lou

The thing that frustrates me about Dunham is how selectively she applies reflexivity. Which to be clear is not a new or interesting phenomenon when it comes to the dominant class in any sociocultural context.

Lucinda

For what it’s worth, your episodes on complicated and problematic women are some of my faves.

Kai Dorothy

I worry this means I have the same disease as both you and Lena, but hearing the nonsense comments you get about the pod, Moira, I felt personally offended and had to hold myself back from going scorched earth out of a furious overcorrection with only the unqualified, comment - I love Moira Donegan, but god…

Kai Dorothy

I don’t mean to metaphorically gun down Adrian, as I find you both quite charming and intelligent - two of my faves to learn from - but wow how quickly he gets caught in the crossfire when hearing that comment about Moira, which I conspicuously and viscerally find personally offensive…

Moira Donegan

Some of us are just born annoying and I am one of them!!!! Adrian is innocent 😂

MARIA PRAMAGGIORE

So glad you took this on. I read Famesick and found it compelling. It seems important her metier was comedy—misogynistic from the jump. Her example is important culturally; her privileges and flaws aren’t so different from any number of creative celebs but she has been a lightning rod of sexist and class projection. I loved the ensemble of Too Much. I’m always glad to hear about complicated situations from you two because you can be trusted. Yes to this as follow up to Monroe and celebrated abjection.

A Felt

I had never heard about that Jezbel thing, my jaw is on the floor

OhLordyAmina

Adrian and Moira I just wanted to say I find you both very pleasant and charming, neither of you annoy me.

A Felt

The point about how Dunham appears to be aware of the cycle maligned female celebrities go through is especially interesting because she made a podcast on that exact topic. It’s called The C-Word and every episode is a “you’re wrong about” style exploration of a woman in the public eye who faced misogynistic scrutiny. In it Dunham talks a lot about her own destructive experiences with fame in a way that can sometimes feel self-involved but can also be disarmingly perceptive and empathetic (which sounds like Dunham’s whole deal!)

J.J. Faubert

As a disabled person I really appreciated Famesick. I only wish I had her money to be able to fly across the country to have a proper diagnosis. But a part from that, it was too easy to relate to her struggles and honestly I wish she got more angry about the ableism (that is so entwined with sexism) that she had to deal with from the industry, her ex, friends and especially her doctors. Thanks for the episode and your thoughts, always a pleasure.

Ashley Frament

I haven’t watched the show but am the same age as Lena and lived in NYC when Girls made its debut, so the discourse around it was very relevant to me. I will never forget getting a DM on Facebook (prob around 2013-14) from a male college friend asking me if I thought Dunham “owed it to the audience” to have her body in “better shape” before putting it on television…I must have shared some piece of media discussing her nudity on Girls. Have never forgotten the shock of someone I knew, who I thought was pretty progressive, taking that position about a woman’s body on TV. No, she never owed that to anyone.

WGM

as someone a too young at the time the show came out, I really appreciated Moira's observations around the generational gap. When I got around to it a lot of elements felt pre-metoo in ways that felt alien (the lawfirm episode, some of the stuff around Adam)

Betti Tristan

Cleared up something I didn’t have a right to dislike her for and handed me several much more valid reasons to dislike her. What more can you ask for in a podcast.

Moira Donegan

Love to be on the complicated and problematic woman beat ... truly the honor of my life.

Moira Donegan

SO many people told me to watch this documentary ...

Kathryn Nadkarni

Sorry to fan girl but seeing The Moira Donnegan’s name on my notifications list just made me shriek. I think it’s worth the watch! Given your scholarship I think there won’t be a ton of surprises per se, but there are so many fascinating corners to explore in the DCC franchise…hyper capitalism, beautiful women as “role models,” cis women doing drag (change my mind!!), etc…and in a more meta sense, so many interesting facets of how Netflix chose to frame their stories. (In the 3rd season they dive into how the young women are grappling with increased exposure due to the documentary.)

Kai Dorothy

Same - I’ll see you at the weekly Annoying Rabble-rouser Lesbian meeting 🙌🏻🌈✨ Adrian, thank you for your scholarly dedication to observing the pedagogical value of us, the cantankerous annoyances with shit to say. 🤣

Kai Dorothy

Do you also get friends telling you “oh no, not annoying; that’s not exactly how I would describe it…. you’re more (synonym that feels nicer to say)” - like dude I’m annoying and fine, at least I’m not boring hahaha

Amanda Marcotte

I don’t want to be too harsh because the valorization of “relatability” is so ubiquitous that it is now an unquestioned assumption. But it was not always viewed that way. The idea that art must be “relatable” above all is part of the same millennial milieu as the over-parenting and sheltering that makes Dunham so irritating to so many. Another value of art that is lost is curiosity. To learn about someone different. To expand the imagination. I liked “Girls” even when I didn’t relate, because I felt like I got a glimpse into other people’s lives and it was interesting. And funny.

Beth McWilliams

Moira - I totally sense how you and Lena are contemporaries, I’m a few years older than you both and I loved and still love the show, which I interpreted at the time as even funnier and more satirical than was intended…I see now the threads of Lena seeing herself as you, but she was really unaware of how much her position in the world made her so laughably privileged and unfamiliar to people like me that she was a joke before she even started writing. But she’s still so funny, as was the show, partly due to her and partly due to the talent of the other writers and actors who don’t get enough credit. Elijah, Shoshanna and Ray are some of my all time favorite characters. Marnie’s Kanye West “Stronger” scene is the stuff of Lucille Ball. I guess I’m saying that Lena wasn’t as clear about her worldview and place in the world as you are and we benefit much more from your clear eyed thoughtful critical output. But Lena’s half baked efforts count too because her bravery and wit count for a lot. There used to be a ton of nudity on hbo and none of it was as vulnerable as Girls and I liked that too. She’s a white millennial girl id, in so many ways, and it’s easier to criticize her than ourselves, I know I participated in a ton of misogyny in my 20s that horrifies me now. One of my favorite shows from this era is Issa Rae’s show Insecure, and I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on that show as well, which I think will have a much more meaningful legacy.

James Buchanan

You know, I really didn't like Lena Dunham and am still not wild about her, but I appreciate your nuance and sensitivity in discussing her trajectories, travails, and trip-ups. I may even give "Girls" another try. You're both fabulous, BTW

AŁG

Lena Dunham did 😅 on her podcast The C-Word!

Beth McWilliams

Yes - I used to have a teacher who said “review the book they wrote” anytime discussion veered too far off

kathleen

Jezebel did WHAT.

Bea

I could write a master's thesis about how "gen z boss and a mini" is quintessentially Australian 'daggy' self-deprecating humour, misunderstood by American audiences because the creators were female and not male.

kathleen

I've seen comments around You're Wrong About that go "love Michael Hobbes but wow Sarah Marshall is annoying." Frankly, I don't think it's any accident Moira and Sarah are the ones in their dynamic duos about whom randos on the internet feel the need to share their critical opinions. Anyway. I think you guys have great rapport and are individually interesting in your roles on this podcast. In this parasocial environment, at least, I think that whole "lady is smart but annoying" trope needs to be checked right into the proverbial boards. I didn't watch Girls (haven't tried to meaningfully re-read Wuthering Heights despite my intentions either). But I still really appreciate how you took on the topic of Dunham with a warm heart and a cold eye. By and large I've liked Jia Tolentino since her Hairpin days. But editing Jezebel and then leveling the judgment that confessional memoir articles are dead is... a bit rich.

Solomon Freilich Photography

I really liked listening to this episode even though I knew little about Lena Dunham. I had watched Girls before but only enjoyed it a little if I recall correctly. That person who commented that you shouldn't do this episode is having their nightmare come true because now I'm rewatching Girls and I think it's really funny. I don't know whether that will hold for me, but it's worth a shot. Adam Driver's character in the pilot is so unpleasant. He's so insensitive. The actor wasn't so pleasant either apparently. Like Dunham, I also had the experience of having a terrible physical issue that doctors couldn't fully explain and people, like one of the doctors and my psychiatrist, thought was psychosomatic. Kate Mann I think has a piece on Dunham that's I believe paywalled but she teased and I think it's worth checking out. I don't have the money for a subscription right now.

Marie

if you happen to speak german ther eis a podcast callee feminisht shelf control - they did two episodes on the DCC

MWD

Where was I? What was I doing? [This episode required a lot of homework for me because I was lost.]

eli

An episode on Gen Z boss and a mini would be much welcomed, as well as right-wing conceptions and seething resentment of "feminised" workplaces/professions such as HR!

Liz

Agreed.

Bea

I need merch with "allegedly, allegedly, allegedly" written on it

John Sand

I am haunted by (and yet cannot locate) an infographic that compared viewership and number of thinkpieces for Girls and 2 Broke Girls. It may have been a hallucination. I want to say it was like 2 Broke Girls had 10x viewers and Girls had 10x thinkpieces.

Dev

I liked this episode quite a lot, particularly the discussion of young women freelance writer landscape in the aughts. I’m so curious, though, to know why Dunham’s lifelong OCD diagnosis (discussed in the book) didn’t factor into this episodes analysis at all. Particularly since both Moira and Adrian seem to be a bit baffled at how often and compulsively Dunham overshares about her life, a hallmark of OCD. I think this diagnosis offers quite a bit of insight into Lena’s relationship with her own fame, but also her parents. Thought it was interesting it wasn’t included in the ep.

JanaKat

As a survivor of child on child sexual abuse I was kind of dreading this episode, and really had to force myself to listen to it, but I'm glad I did. And I'm not entirely surprised to learn that people on the Internet were (shock! gasp!) making things up about that part of Dunham's autobio. OMG though, I would also be very upset if someone included a detail like that about me in a popular book without my consent. I wish Adam Savage faced half the bad publicity for his actual and extensive abuse of his sister that Dunham did for this, yet he's still a golden boy of the online left. As it always seems to go with shitty men. Makes the blood boil. And Moira, you're not annoying at all.

Bingusbongus

lena is such a fascinating figure. people don’t think she has the right to take herself seriously as a person because they find her so ridiculous. the ridiculous trivial things (she can be cringey or annoying) end up crossing over with the ridiculous genuinely bad things (backing the rapist) and because the scope of how we talk about her wrongdoings goes in and out of focus constantly we’re unable to really reckon with her. she’s truly a white woman millennial shibboleth

Sam D.

True!

Sam D.

Ok, I'm watching it!

A Felt

I agree that OCD is a missing piece from this convo! Especially because they talk about how so much of Dunham’s work explores shame.

Alexsia Iskander

As someone who listened to the episode, your assement is very true. Her racism was very quickly hand waved away as simple stupidity due to her environment

Andrew Carlson

For what it’s worth coming from someone with no dog in this fight and not a whole lot of preconceived notions of the target, this really didn’t come off as a critical analysis of Dunham. With the opening bit I was expecting some nuanced dissection and takedown of some problematic privileged white nonsense (note: *not* an unqualified character assassination), but frankly by the end of it I was kind of over the lowkey glazing. The discussion of gendered criticism and its relative intensity was thought-provoking (as y’all’s work most often is), but perhaps the listener you invoked at the beginning was onto something given the direction you decided to go here.

Jenny

Moira: you are not annoying, despite being opinionated, chiefly because you are capable of learning and thinking deeply about things that fall outside of the narrow confines of your own life. What makes shoe-gazy artists / media figures annoying is their inability to think about on issues that don't directly pertain them, or have empathy with people who aren't exactly like them. Their limitedness makes them boring. Their insistence that we pay attention regardless just make me ignore them harder. Whereas I'm very happy to listen to you (and Adrian too) analyze a different weekly topic all year round!

Sam

please and thank you for a maggie nelson as paradigmatic gen xer ep!

James Talley

Yes! I am of an age and interest set such that Lena Dunham passed right over me. Aware of the name and a vague idea she was a creator of some kind, but otherwise blank. So this was all new to me. I think it signals trust in our hosts to show how thongs are relevant and interesting and I thank them for saving me the real-time labor of attending to so much as it unfolded.

Megan

Oooh now that I know Moira at least considers suggestions from the comments you should do an episode on petro-masculinity and the climate crisis (so much here from "rolling coal" to renewable intermittency as metaphor for sexual inadequacy to the fact that there are more yoga instructors than coal miners - but Big Greens still pay lip service to the latter to Abundance as Leftism, but Make It Manly...)

Evin

It was upsetting to hear my direct message specifically referenced at the start of the episode. I would not describe what I wrote as calling Lena Dunham "evil" or that an episode commenting on it would contribute to further evil. I am genuinely quite sad to find out it was read as such. I'm glad the message provided a framing device within the episode to talk about strong reactions to her. However, if asked I would have requested to keep the communication private.

Brick Ingle

Desperate to hear a mini-sode on “Gen Z Boss and a Mini”

testosteronefemme

re: is there ever a healthy version of fame - have been thinking abt this in the context of ariana grande discourse. bc, especially with the current visible emaciation of celebrities, the dynamic is, people get put on a pedestal and cheered on for publicly killing themselves. and the particularly brutal thing about EDs, is that they're frequently competitive. so every little piece of feedback about your body, whether positive or negative, usually becomes an incentive to keep starving yourself. positive feedback re: weight loss reinforces the need to lose weight, but can also signal to someone with an ED that their pain is still invisible (and emaciation can make it visible). looking "scary" becomes a dare ("oh you thought i was scary? what about now") etc. in general i think when your image/body/face are surveilled i think it's deeply damaging to people. fame on its own i don't think *has* to be that way - i don't think anyone was really paying attn to toni morrison's body. but anything where your body is the point, whether dance/acting/modeling/etc ia going to have that as an occupational risk.

Teresa Ritterhoff

Coincidentally, Lena Dunham has a podcast (with a friend) devoted solely to this topic ("The C-Word")...

Teresa Ritterhoff

Thanks for that tip, I will look it up and if you would like me to share lmk

Teresa Ritterhoff

Yes! As Moira pointed out towards the end, it is Dunham's vulnerability that ultimately keeps her art from slipping into pure and shameless exhibitionism -- holds for "Famesick" as well.

Teresa Ritterhoff

I think the maturity angle is very interesting and deserves more reflection. It is true that, as Adrian noted, there are a lot of successful 22-year-old actresses/artists out there, but there are almost zero (particularly women) directors and showrunners of that age -- to this day, I believe Dunham is the youngest ever. You can't convince me that the vitriol aimed at her was not in part due to the audacity of her ambition, which was on as frank display as her body. The relationship to her parents is also fascinating (yes, Dunham was absolutely a nepo baby) and, particularly when her own fertility was lost, kept her in the daughter role longer than is perhaps typical. I am purposely avoiding terms like "healthy" b/c one of the many things "Famesick" had me reflecting on is that we are perhaps too quick to kick particularly women out of the nest, citing their alleged maturity (esp compared to young men). At any rate, I found Dunham's account of her troubled attempts to build her own nest(s) one of the most interesting aspects of the book, especially as she ultimately ends up flying the coop of America itself.

Wednesday

Yay finally someone will explain to me what the deal with Lena Dunham is!! I feel like she came to prominence right at the beginning of the end of monoculture. Girls came out in my early 20s and yet I never watched it not did any of my friends and it had zero impact on me. I guess I knew that people didn't like Dunham, but I had no idea why and no care to find out. I pretty much only knew she existed because she was friends with Taylor Swift at the time, haha! So I look forward to actually learning about her now that she is back in the public consciousness again...

Whitney

This. It wasn’t as nuanced as I was expecting and I was very upset that the controversy from her first book was hand waved as rightwing fearmongering when Moira said she read the book. She would know then that part of the problem is the way Dunham framed that encounter with her sibling. She literally compared herself to a predator cause she thought that was a funny joke.

Whitney

They weren’t, though. They just didn’t quote the part of the book that would tell you that the issue lead back to Dunham’s own framing.

JanaKat

Who or what weren’t what? I’m sorry, i haven’t read the book.