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Stargirl S03E12 - Frenemies - Chapter Twelve: The Last Will And Testament Of Sylvester Pemberton FULL REACTION (Patreon)

Published:
2022-12-10 14:28:02
Imported:
2026-06
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Disney15ish

Not that it's a great excuse but other people think that "Sylvester" being Sylvester where no one can see him is written off by him saying that he "gets lost in the role" Also Geoff Johns, the showrunner said the twist was planned since asking Joel McHale to come on the show. Back before he talks to Mike's mom, he looks in the rearview mirror apparently to make sure the scars from operation aren't visible. Also while the reveal scene isn't the greatest, I think it's supposed to be the "murder mystery reveal" trope seen in those movies which that was the tone the season was going for. Saying that though, I've also been disappointed in the season. It feels like the 2nd half is just lead ups to having a surprise end to the episodes

Frank Tremel

I agree how the Angel monologue was forced, but what gives this more leeway is we saw "Sylvester" do all this stuff, whereas in Angel, we're just supposed to believe the main villain manipulated everything with no evidence. Like take Ultra-Humanite's conversation with Yolanda, I actually thought it was bad advice to tell Yolanda to not let Cindy off the hook and in the proceeding episodes thought this tension with Cindy could've been avoided had "Sylvester" not given Yolanda that stupid advice. Same with Rick; I felt "He had to mention the limiter didn't he?" They gave us context in previous episodes to connect the dots that explains the whole season, whereas Angel just dropped in this bombshell with every indication that wasn't planned. By the way, in a interview, the writers said this was their endgame the whole time, and that scene where "Sylvester" is looking in his mirror in his car before talking to Mike's mom was him seeing if the scar left behind from the surgery was visible. As for the Cosmo and acting like "Sylvester" by himself parts, I can't defend why Cosmo couldn't sense why that wasn't actually Sylvester, however, he mentions how he gets lost in the role, so it makes it hard not to act like Sylvester when he's alone. And, even when he was alone, Cosmo was always with him, so perhaps he was acting like Sylvester to sell it to Cosmo. Even still, I feel monologues are important to help the audience alone, as long as they have stuff to back it up. Stargirl had that, Angel didn't. I have to ask, if their were more hints as to this plot twist, like say Sylvester kind of had the posture of an Ape for a little bit do to being one for decades, or having an addiction to bananas would you like this twist more, or do you just not like the twist in general because it turned out this wasn't actually Sylvester.

John Boehmer

I think the main reason the reveal feels clunky to you is because you don’t fully understand the Ultra Humanite and how their brain swap technology works, not that that is entirely your fault since the show didn’t do the best job of explaining it. When UH takes over a new body they can bond so fully with the host that sometimes they completely forget who they are. For instance, there was a story in the comics where the UH’s mind was fully integrated in the body of a woman who was dying from cancer in a hospital. They were so far gone that they probably would’ve died if not for Per Degaton and Despero coming back in time from the future, finding them and curing them. On this show, all the times the UH was alone and acting like Sylvester was because they literally thought they were Sylvester and had no reason to think otherwise. But luckily from them, every time the UH would remember themselves and then go about their evil scheme. I think the reason Cosmo bought the act was because much of the time the UH wasn’t acting but was Sylvester. I hope this makes sense.

Neburcs

I'd say yes it was necessary to kill the crocks. We all know Artemis needs to take that path into either being a villain or a hero and as long as her parents are around they're gonna try to get her to into college, as we've seen. So for Artemis to become what she's meant to be her parents unfortunately needed to die. As for the reveal I like it. During the monologue he explains that he gets so lost in the role. Pat almost succeeds in tricking Ultra-Humanite into freeing him because he's so in character. I had no problem with Dragon King being brought back either seeing as he's been alive for so long and done plenty of experiments on him. Also, we saw in the first episodes that the reason the gambler got killed was because he found the security feed. They most likely killed him to keep him from hacking inside their network and figuring out that Jordan was still alive. However I do agree with you that we got to see too little of Courtney being stargirl. I wanted more of her with the staff.

Flashverse Media

To be honest I loved the twist and reveal that ultra humanite is Sylvester it made sense to me since I know who ultra humanite is in the comics and how all his brain swapping works in the comics when he puts his brain into another body he fully bonds with the host sometimes completely forgetting who he is and he literally said he gets lost in the role sometimes thinking he is Sylvester and all the times Sylvester was alone and acting he thought he was Sylvester and didn’t have a reason to think otherwise but luckily he did remember and continued his plane And the reason cosmo bought it was Sylvester was because most of the time UH forgot he was UH and that he was indeed Sylvester and he didn’t take out pat earlier was because he wanted everyone to trust him especially the staff hopes this makes sense But I think UH plan is to take Sylvester’s spotlight so he can be famous again like he was as the actress but hopefully everything makes sense by the series finale But I do agree with you I’m kinda disappointed that Courtney didn’t use the staff much this season

Jeremy Burch

I had a lot to say apparently, so sorry about all the reading ahead. I loved the twist, especially knowing they planned it since season 1 and actually stuck to it. I don't know too many shows that build up a story like that over 3 seasons, having that patience, I feel like a lot of shows that might try that, end up changing it, not making it to the end of the story are being forced to pivot because it's to obvious and the audience figures it out. I love how they've been laying the groundwork since then with little things like him checking himself in the rearview mirror, which is him checking his scar. Plus all the moments the show explained in the the murder mystery monologue, because all murder mysteries have that scene where the detective or the killer puts all the pieces of the mystery together for the audience. I loved those moments it explained, like telling Rick to take the limiter off the hourglass, telling Beth to cut off her parents, telling Yolanda to keep going after Cindy. But the show I feel like has also shown us other things, like the fact that he was all over the place, being nice, then a jerk, then funny, then overly serious, then acting like a hero, then a psychopath, I originally thought that was somewhat messy, PTSD story, but it turns out to make even more sense, it's because he's not even Sylvester, he's a guy who forgets who he is a lot of the time. Their was even a moment that you noticed in a previous episode, where he got over excited about what the staff could do, and it was like shouldn't you know what the staff can do, it was your staff. The show also showed us some more moments like the rage issues the actress had when she was killed the guy, which is like the rage issues Sylvester has had this season. Their was also that moment when the actress/Ultra-humanite talked about losing herself in a role, as well as when the guy mentioned to her, he could see her acting even when the cameras weren't rolling aka when no one was watching. They also had Sylvester explain to us that he loses himself in the role and forgets who he is a lot of the time and Pat even almost convinces him he's Sylvester again and to get him out of the grave, showing just how easy it is for him to forget he's not actually Sylvester, heck, actually most of the monologue he's talking like he is Sylvester. I also think it was a great twist bringing Icicle back and that it made sense, as much as I hate it that he killed the Crocks, because they probably had plans for Artemis and Icicle had to do something big for his reveal and kill someone, sadly they make the most sense for him to kill, since there's not that many other's he could have killed and at that point everyone he had worked with before was dead except for them, the people he was currently working with and his family, so who else was their. I even feel Courtney not being Stargirl as much made sense, the first 2 season's focused on her being Stargirl too much and how she needed to be Courtney to, so this season showed her being Courtney more than Stargirl and that she needs to find a balance, as well as showing Courtney is just as important as Stargirl. Plus, it was probably part of the plan, to undermine and keep Courtney from being Stargirl, so Starman/Ultra-humanite could be Starman and bond with the staff more. As for Cameron, I think it makes sense he's stepping back from Courtney and the story right now, because he's being manipulated by his father, who is a master at it. Killing the Gambler was probably because they were trying to undermine Courtney's second chance plan, for the people that actually deserved it, so that Icicle could weasel his way in, as well as undermine the trust in everyone and possibly because the Gambler found the cameras as well. The biggest question I would have about all of this is the staff, why it trust's the Ultra-humanite, it could be as simple as he looks like Sylvester so it trust's him, or maybe it's because he believes he actually is Sylvester a lot of the time, so maybe the staff does to, or it has something to do with the energy Sylvester's body absorbed from the staff and that's why it connected to him. That is the only part that I really think needs more explanation to work.

Jordan St. James

People have probably already said it before this, but it can never be said enough times, the Crocks deserved better. They might've been murderous psychos, but hey... no one's perfect. They shall be missed, truly. Soak in the validation, Shan, it's all yours.

Joseph Jimenez

Honestly the twist made sense to me because. I had the comics for a lot of years the ultra humanite needed. To fully bond with the host and that's how he gets lost the role. Now with Cameron taking a backseat. It's makes sense since he might have heard. Courtney out but with his father back he is being manipulated so now it's up to Cameron to take Courtney or his family side. Now don't be mad but the Crocks dieing. Needed to happen for Artemis storyline because with this she three paths to choose from 1. A normal life 2. The hero journey 3. A villain path Hopefully this makes sense why they needed to kill the Crocks. Think about it the UH kinda gave everyone bad advice. Yolanda not to give Cindy a chance. Beth to break tides with her parents so they wouldn't be involved as much and with. Rick taking off the limiter with the hourglass now he totally dependent on the thing now and taking off means major headaches. With Cosmo I don't understand after. Everything that's has happened it's should had stop working and fly back straight to. Courtney the staff has sentient what the heck. I really don't understand why. Hopefully this makes sense to you Shan.

Tony

Ok.. I'm reading a lot of comments and hearing a lot of things about people saying this plot twist was great.. I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to disagree and it might piss people off.. But jeebus this shit was BAD. Your entire identity.. Your memories.. All of what makes you "You" is stored inside your brain.... Not ANY. other part of your body.. If one were to scoop out your brain and put someone else's brain inside your body.. The person whose brain would now be occupying your body would be controlling your body and would NOT. gain your memories I know this is a comic book show and we're told suspension of disbelief or whatever... But there's a limit to how far you can take it... Flying people.. Sure.. A device that makes you stronger.. Whatever... But transfering a full brain into another persons body does NOT. give you access to their memories ...You'd ONLY. be wearing their skin.. You'd LOOK. like them.. You would NOT. be them. ...DC Comics heavily fucked up on this one... IF they'd have transferred Ultra Humanite's mind by way of uploading his mind into Sylvesters dead body with some sort of chip or even a super advanced machine that would upload a mind into someone elses.. Sure... Maybe... But brain transplant?? NO. There are several things wrong with this lame twist: 1. I highly fucking doubt Pat went around and told everyone (or at least one person) in full detail about ALL. the private conversations he had with Sylvester back in his JSA days.. I doubt they're all written down somewhere either... Who the fuck is so fucking OCD that they'd go through all the trouble of doing that?! In absolute perfect fucking detail.. Word for word.. Leaving NOTHING. out ...There's things that Ultra Humanite knew about that he couldn't have possibly known about and shame on Pat for not being able to see through that shit ...You're a shitty friend if you don't remember the important moments.. Sorry but not sorry ...I have a bestie.. And I either remember EVERYTHING. she's told me or there's moments when she's telling me something that I instantly remember she's retelling me something I've heard before ...Again.. Pat SHOULD have seen through this shit 2. The Cosmic Staff is not able to distinguish the real Sylvester from Fake Sylvester? This entire time (if you don't know the comic book origins and only watch the show cause it's a good show) we're led to believe this staff's origin is unknown.. Because "Cosmic staff" leads us to believe it's "out of this world" ...You'd have to be a comic book nerd to know the real origin (I looked it up.. It was created by Ted Knight.. The OG Starman ..A human from Opal City) ....On this show however.. We don't know it's exact origins and it chose Courtney for a reason and it chose the real Sylvester for the same reason... It doesn't work for just anyone.. Or so we are led to believe.. We've never seen it being wielded (and glow) by any of the other characters ...Soooo... WHY??? Why would it work for Fake Sylvester?? How could the staff make such a stupid error? It should have sensed that he wasn't the real deal 3. Beth's goggles should have seen through all of this shit from the get go... It reads into EVERYTHING... You're telling me it can't see that this wasn't really Sylvester this WHOLE TIME?! No differences in brainwaves or picking up on the sign of a head scar related to a procedure that's best known to be of the size used for brain transplants or whatever?? C'mon son! Way to hype up a pair of glasses that turn out to be useless when it comes down to it 4. Who told Fake Sylvester how to do all the things Starman did? At what point did Starman extensively explain how to pull off the shooting star trick or whatever it was called? Or how to even use the staff AT. ALL.. Who wrote all that shit down and gave that info to Ultra Humanite?? He knew waaaay TOO much for this to be a believable twist 5. Who performed the brain transplants? A. Dragon Dude transfers brain from actress into white ape?? B. Many years later Dragon Dude dies C. How did Dragon Dude's brain end up in White Ape's body?? D. How did White Ape's brain end up in Sylvester's body?? Who performed this shit?? It sure as fuck wasn't Icicle Dude... Cause he was down in the sewer suffering from a mad case of the shivvers ...And everyone hated The Calculator or whatever the fuck his name was (dude that got killed in the trailer earlier in the season) so why would he have helped out?? ------- There's too many fuckups with this whole stupid twist and I whole-heartedly agree with Shannan that it WAS. STUPID... Don't bother trying to convince me otherwise.. You can't. Geoff Johns claiming that this was the original plan from the get-go seems a bit like trying to cover up shit too... Cause if this was the original plan all along then boy did they fuck up I'm thinking they originally wanted to have Transparent-Skull Dude set up his Helix group and have them take on the new JSA but when they found out they got cancelled they wrote in this shitty ass twist Sorry not sorry... But to everyone who thinks this twist was great... I agree with Shannan... You're wrong.