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What to do about Patreon? (Patreon)

Published:
2018-12-28 16:38:56
Imported:
2026-06

Content

Friends: 

Like me, I'm sure many of you are aware that Patreon recently banned the political commentator Sargon of Akkad for what they termed violations of their terms of service. Many of you have expressed concerns about this situation. 

I share your concerns. 

I'm very appreciative of Patreon, which has allowed me to build a viable content business while staying independent of sponsors. But I also care a great deal about free speech and an open exchange of ideas. 

I have only basic familiarity with Sargon of Akkad and it seems that I don't share the majority of his views. Still, his banning is troubling, especially since he didn't (to my knowledge) advocate violence toward a particular group or do anything dangerous (although many of his activities appear to be very distasteful.)

During this whole dust-up, Sam Harris has pulled out of the platform, and I take this move very seriously. Although my own public work is non-political and largely non-philosophical, I am a former academic and I pay a lot of attention to issues surrounding science, ethics, democracy, and free speech. Harris is one of my intellectual heroes and he's changed my mind on a lot of topics. His departure gets my attention. 

But here's the thing. I need the money that Patreon brings in. I'm not exaggerating. I need it. 

Since I've moved toward full-time content creation, I've let my furniture and fabrication business lapse. I don't seek out new clients and I only take on work when I absolutely have to make the mortgage payment. 

It's that serious for me. Patreon helps pay the bills for my family. While the money I get from Patreon isn't huge, it combines with YouTube, book sales, merchandise, and other income streams to keep my young business viable. My Patrons are reliable consumers of my videos, and purchasers of my t-shirts and books. You all do more than you know. 

Patreon has also allowed me to serve exclusive content in a streamlined way. It's a good communication platform. It's not perfect; I've never liked its community section. Many things could be improved. 

I know alternatives are coming along, but I'm afraid of what happened to Etsy. Once upon a time, Etsy was THE place for handcrafted stuff, but they messed up in many ways, broke their brand, and allowed many competitors to take away market share. Now, there are many places to sell handmade items instead of a single, good platform. 

I'm afraid this will happen with Patreon. There will be many alternatives. None will emerge as the best. Creators like me will either have to be on many platforms (which is a huge drain on time and resources) or we'll have to pick one platform and miss out on all the potential supporters who don't like that platform. Up until now, Patreon was pretty good and more-or-less universal. 

Now it might be neither of those things. Drag. 

Here's what I propose: 

1.) Stick with me on Patreon for now. They take a VERY small amount of your support and when you pull out, I get hurt far more than they do. 

2.) Keep me informed about how you feel and what you want to see. It could well be that Patreon will take the hint and re-draw its terms of service. Formerly-banned creators might return. Or, a single, really good alternative might emerge. I'm all for moving platforms if it means my Patrons stay happy and I get to keep doing what I do in an environment where free speech is protected. 

If there's going to be a move. Let's do it together. I'll take your input and perhaps even do a poll. For now, may I humbly suggest that we ride this thing out a while longer and see how things shake out? 

Thanks for your time and Happy New Year!

--Rex

Comments

Delmonique Lyons

I am in this for the long haul with you bro.

Daniel M. Clark

I say, stay on Patreon. Here’s my reasoning: 1. You said you need it. That's why this is number one on the list. If you need it, stay with it. I get having principles and making a principled stand, but when you're dependent on something to survive, that's not the time to make a principled stand that can affect your survival. 2. If this creator broke the rules, they broke the rules. They deserved to be kicked off the platform if they broke the rules. That shouldn't have any bearing on *you*. 3. You didn't feel like the rules were unfair before, so why do you feel they are unfair now? Here's the thing. I'm with you on freedom of speech and expression, but there must be limits. Free speech that leads to chaos doesn't benefit anyone. There exist all kinds of laws that limit free speech that we all consider reasonable. These platforms have additional rules because they run the joint. And that's okay. You're not *ever* going to find a platform worth being on that doesn't have a Terms of Service just like Patreon's. The TOS's exist to both protect the company from litigation and to promote a civilized discourse. There's nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't mean Patreon's TOS needs to be rewritten. 4. Don't jump off a bridge just because someone else does. Sam Harris might not need Patreon, but you do. Anyway, that's my perspective. Others may disagree.

Jonathan Boatman

I didn't know anything about that guy so I just googled him. They dumped him for using a lot of racial slurs. Regardless of the context, I myself have a zero tolerance when it comes to people doing that and that's on ALL sides and all races. Hell, I don't even like saying race other than human race. However, with that said, how am I to identify those I don't agree with if people are constantly being policed on what they can and can't say. Thus is why the first amendment is so very damn important! Not only to fight suppression, but to allow other to see the way others truly feel so we can spot an a__hole or racist or whatever a lot easier. Anyway, just my two cents.

Steve Crane

I have only heard one other mention of this "incident" via a rant on Wranglerstar, a channel I subscribe to, but don't provide any monetary support to. He is clearly a supporter of this Sargon of Akkad guy and In his rant he was encouraging viewers to withdraw their support from Patreon completely to punish the company for not allowing free speech. I said in a comment on that post that I support two small makers on Patreon and had no intention of withdrawing my support from them. I don't see it as a freedom of speech issue at all. As far as I'm concerned freedom of speech means that a government should not restrict the views of its citizens; it does not mean that a commercial entity, offering a channel or service must allow anyone to share any views on said channel or service. Why should I be expected to stop supporting makers like yourself and Keith Brown who present content that is nothing but making; no opinions on religion, politics or anything else some may take offence to. If creators are going to try to use a commercial entity's channel or service for anything that pushes the boundaries of the envelope that are its rules, I don't see how they can act all offended when the entity declines to continue allowing them to do so. So keep on doing what you're doing and I will keep on supporting you.

Jason Bailey

I really hate it when a brand becomes political. I avoid companies that get too politically active. So far, this just looks like some guy didn’t pay attention to the fine print. Until Patreon starts pushing a political agenda or you stop producing educational/entertaining content, I’ll stick around. But I do think Patreon leadership really need to get their heads out of their backsides and stop doing things that piss off people. This is the second time they’ve done something that alienated users of the platform. Hope you had a great holiday and happy new year.

Matthew Leigh

I think being on a platform that doesn't tolerate people like Sargon of Akkad is a positive thing. Stay on Patreon, they have done a reasonable job of supporting marginalised content creators even in the current hostile environment.

Matthew Leigh

Also Sam Harris isn't the intellectual hero he once was. He's been descending into populist bigotry lately which is incredibly disappointing

James Boatright

Patreon appears to have dropped S of A because he offended a lot of people. The problem with that is that "offensive" is a moving target. As a member of an oft persecuted religious minority I find that fearful. In the other hand, there is NO viable alternative to patreon, even with it's well known limitations, especially in the comment and message areas. Until a comperant alternative exists, you CAN NOT move. See Shadiversity video on the subject. Je has the best explanation I know of. [And gives it from the POV of another member of a different religious minority]

Jim Williams

You better believe that I will hang with you until you find a better platform. The Oath that I took in 1977 when entering the USAF is still in effect for me. So, I am very interested in you moving to another platform, but I am more interested in not gouging you along the way. Keep up the great work and I'm sure your viewers and patron will hang in there with you until something better comes along.

James Boatright
>>18397832

There's a serious issue about him having broken the rules. Re 2 and 3, apparently the rules are flexible depending on how much complaint is generated by your "offensiveness". S search of patreon posts finds dozens of people who are far more overtly racist and who have used the same terms without being censured. This indeterminate nature of "the rules" is the problem. Apparently you can be bumped if enough people complain, but if you're not super well k own and popular you can get away with anything. THAT is the problem. I live 4 blocks from Westboro Baptist church, and hate them, but will defend their rights to speak with all my abilities. Same for S of A.

Matthew Leigh
>>18397832

There's a difference between freedom of speech and providing a platform though. Would you allow the Westboro Baptist Church to put one of their hate signs in your front window?

Barbara Schulz

I didn’t read any of it, but I like what Daniel Clark and the others of like mind said about having known the rules before you click “accept”. That applies to Sargon of Akkad as well. It seems to me that persons of disrepute who wish to slam into your consciousness with their own set of guttersnipe ideas often do so by breaking the rules. How else to get such an easy platform? I don’t know anything about Sam Harris’ intellectual pedigree, but he is ferrying too much of a burden on Patreon to honor a very purist free speech doctrine. There is no right whatsoever between humans that doesn’t have limitations, from property ownership to right of way to free speech. It’s almost silly to ask a site like Patreon to bear the weight of his precious and pristine notion of freedom of speech. Come on. This is completely because of the social unrest of the times. Neither I, nor you, nor anyone have the right to say anything at anytime, anywhere; just try to wish evil upon the president of the United States, if you despise him, and see what happens. See what happens. So, let it go, and do not feel guilty about some Sam Harrisian definition of the basic freedoms. You are not even close to selling out.