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Ali Ramble: art and asmr chat! :) (Patreon)

Published:
2024-01-09 10:23:02
Imported:
2026-06
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It's been a while since I've done a ramble! Working over the holidays made it a little difficult to just take some time to sit and chat like this- I forgot how much I enjoyed doing it :P I thought it would be fun to talk about when we change our opinions on things and how that's OK! I only used AI art and ASMR as an example since they are topics relative to me, but whatever it is I think it's always good to keep your mind open when learning about something.  

Feel free to just listen to me as background sound or post your own thoughts :) As an artist myself I'll always choose human made art over anything else, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy looking at AI art...especially of a certain genre if you catch my drift xD

Comments

Kai Zomei

Interesting takes, Ali; both with the AI art thing and the double standards of YouTube. For the AI art part: I still mainly hold that if you use it for fun novelty or as a tool in your process I don't have any qualms. My main issue with generative AI (art or text) is when folks us what the AI put out as their final product without any further iteration to refine it, or that they won't be honest about using it when it's obvious they did. What an AI outputs may seem okay at first, but even the best put together AI art has its faults and tends to come off as soul-less. I'm not sure how to tackle the "AI steals art from others to make its art" as I know that how a computer memory works is different from how an animal brain works in terms of getting and processing information, although the AI bros type of folks tend to be shameless in how they try to replicate art styles of artists they think are significant to copy. Corporations are especially scummy in how they want to use AI art as a way to get art without needing to work with artists cause it seems faster to get what they want. The Wacom thing is interesting because I do think it was tone deaf and stupid of Wacom to use AI art in their promotion, but at the same time the folks that reacted negatively to the revelation were many times over the top imo. Like, Wacom may be the "industry standard" but there are other brands to support nowadays, like XP-PEN, which I use and am happy to see them try so hard in making a quality product for the prices they give. If folks are being salty about the popularity of an AI post account, really it's more so an issue with how algorithms on social media prefer accounts that post constantly and consistently. AI can churn out chum quality art that can be posted for days on end, but a real artist usually needs a back log to keep the regular posting up. For the YouTube thing: The review system and deciding what to hit is always an enigma. You see so much stuff that almost clearly seems like it should be taken down or hidden, yet stays up, yet when you or a close friend posts something with even a slight suggestion then *boom* you're hit as though you're the bad guy. Both the bot and human reviews seem to have both a faultiness in how they work, and in how the humans especially can be biased based on who you're lucky, or unlucky, to get met with that day. I do wish consistency existed for this sort of thing, but alas humans have a tendency towards hypocrisy and laziness. One more point: I agree with you that in growing up we continue to learn things, and we are likely to change our perspectives as we gain more new experiences in life. I might joke with a friend if they make a drastic shift of opinion if they were adamantly against something then be all for it, but I still respect their new perspective. I think some folks might've taken the idea of "people don't change" a bit too strongly and think there's just a point where you never stray too far from your true nature to ever be able to change an initial opinion. Open conversation is always great, but it's sad when people's emotional and knee-jerk reactions lead to the closing of further discussions (I accept guilt in this as well in some cases of my life).

codytachi

I've missed Ali Rambles! Unfortunately a lot of people on the internet are stubborn in believing that their opinion is superior and if you think differently you are inherently wrong and also a bad person. Healthy discourse is good! Sharing opinions and arguments is how we learn and grow, even if you discover that you were wrong or misguided, that discovery and subsequent change is what improves you as a person. There's a big difference between arguing with and berating someone. I'm of two minds about AI art, it's proven to be a useful tool for content creators, artists looking for inspiration or people using it to bring life to their ideas without needing the skills to draw or paint. I don't like that AI art trains itself on other people's work without permission. It's not like an aspiring artist using another artists work as a learning tool - these models take and use billions of images taken without consent to analyze and create new art using that information and generate new art almost instantaneously. While this may be fine for the average person to just play around with, when corporations start using this art for profit or worse to blatantly copy another artist, I think that's wrong. Human made art is never going to go away, no matter how good AI art becomes, it'll never have the soul that handmade art can capture, nor will it be able to truly understand the creative vision of a particular idea. Regardless, I can sympathize with artists that feel discouraged or threatened by the growing prevalence of AI art. I hope that eventually some sort of solution can be made where everyone is happy, but I've no earthly idea what that would be.

Artilleriez

First of all, thanks very much Ali for the birthday wishes again! It's really appreciated and I'm glad to see you back with the rambles! And well done for getting through the busy season of retail work. I have witnessed myself change over the last few years and it's truly a blessing because I can't stand how I used to think and act. From what I know, I'm slightly more on the younger side compared to most of you guys. Because of this, it wasn't long ago that I was an arrogant angry little teenager in the YouTube comment sections (2017 was particularly filled with these cases). I'm grateful I grew out of that, deleted any nasty-worded stuff I posted and promised myself to always be respectful in discussions. UNFORTUNATELY that isn't always necessarily the solution. Like Kai put it; YouTube policies can be an enigma. Comment tolerance is inconsistent on YouTube - as I've mentioned to you before. The most recent example of this is when I saw a highly upvoted comment which I disagreed strongly with - and not only that - but he actually somewhat contradicted himself and no one seems to have noticed. I see opinions I disagree with all the time on social media, that's fine - what I hate it is when that opinion is more on the attacking-side with blind, untrammeled support behind it. I replied by explaining why his comment was a fallacy. Low and behold; my comment was hidden - just in case I may have offended him or something! But get this; he called the other side "autistic" and that they have a "mental disorder or something". Ahem, YouTube? There could be autistic reading that and feeling ashamed that their condition is used as an insult. Whereas I'm not allowed break down his argument and point out it's flaws...? I'm glad I could talk about this because it actually keeps me up at night sometimes. I regret that I enjoy YouTube because of how stupid it all is. And as we've seen, Alichuart is no exception. I think for the snake girl, the system recognised the word "Lamia" in the title and knew the kind of reputation Lamias have in the world of ASMR. Still, if they're going to make a decision with a big impact, they need to justify it by reviewing your content beforehand. The rise in AI art has its pros and cons. There are personas that are open about the fact they use AI art to generate character renders. But I can understand the worry from professional artists. I agree that AI art has this soulless presence behind it, because that's exactly what it is - a product from soulless thing. To them; it's math, combination of data and formulae. Until AI becomes sentient and self-aware, it will never have what human-made art has; a soul, an emotion, a story, etc... I didn't know about that Wacom AI art thing; that's kinda weird. Weird because you'd think a company that sells art equipment would want to promote them by showing what someone can do with their product - i.e. this art was drawn using a Wacom tablet. Like, that makes sense, no? 😂 Speaking of tablets, Kai said he uses XP-Pen. Ali (and Secular if you're reading this), what tablets do you guys use? I'm thinking of buying Clip Studio along with my first screen drawing tablet soon WITH screen protection - I won't forget that, Ali! Have a great day, all!

BloodyAzazel

To be fair, AI art really is just being an existence for those who don't want to do the hard work. And that's rich coming from me since I never once liked drawing until Quarantine hit. I'm not trying to hate on anyone who does art since that's pretty cool, but I feel like AI is just here to exist and that's all. Me having to create my art felt like a bit of crap when I first had my sketch, but I did enjoy what I was doing which felt weird. Like I really wasn't an "artist," nor did I enjoy every bit of it, and then somehow that just all changed when I started to give myself my own Persona. And let's be real Alichu, any pose on an asmr can be misleading depending on what you're doing, just like your sketch for Umbreon(probably miss spelled that), the Snow Leopard, etc(don't mean to make a downfall on you, just some examples).

JokermanTalon

I feel like I don't have as strong of opinion of AI as some of the other comments lol. I pretty much just don't like it if it's done by a big company that can obviously hire actual artists, it just seems super tasteless. I also don't like it when people try to pass off AI art as anything other than it being AI art. But if people are upfront about it, I don't really care. I also really don't know where people get all this energy to go out and harass people for using AI art even outside of it being a shitty thing to do. YouTube will always be an enigma to me. I don't understand at all why things get restricted. Like even outside of ASMR stuff, sometime people just have their videos restricted for no reason at all. I also find it really funny that I watch pretty much only SFW ASMR roleplays, but even still YouTube will recommended videos with the most out of pocket thumbnails and/or titles. And like I don't really care about seeing lewd/NSFW stuff, which should be pretty obvious from the things I have talked about lol, but it just always confuses me that YouTube will recommended videos that are way "worse" than videos that are getting restricted. Lastly for the opinion thing, there is very few opinions that I care so deeply about that I would never change them. And it does seem a bit childish for people to tease someone for changing their opinion. I do tend to get defensive if someone really goes against an opinion I have, but I usually will take time after arguing with whoever to see more about their viewpoint especially if it's my friend. Which has often lead to me changing my opinion or apologizing but also sometimes leads to me having better points to talk about with the person and strengthens my opinion.

Sir Skelington

I applaud you for being open minded, but I can't see myself liking AI art. I'm not hating on the people that use it, I get why they do it and I think it has it's place, if you just wanna mess around or use it to play d&d or whatever that's fine. When it gets to companies trying to muscle out their workers to replace them, or if you're an author who's writing a story but can't draw cover art then why bother commissioning an artist. I mean why have storyboard artist or concept artist when you could just do it with AI. I'm not saying that it will replace all artist or even all artist in large companies, but what I think it will do is the company that might have had 10 artist will have maybe 2 whose job is just to touch up AI art, and I just don't think that's right, it just feels wrong. I think a good medium is if we could say yeah you can do it but because it's an amalgamation then you can't copyright it, then it will still get use and be used for just putting ideas on paper but if anyone wants to make money off of something they need a traditional artist. Even calling it art feels wrong to me. To me art needs to elicit an emotional response and when I look at AI art I just feel apathy, that isn't to say everything a human does is art, just throwing a can of paint on a wall isn't art to me. When it comes to youtube I think they'd honestly do whatever they can to keep from paying creators, they're one of the worst employers. Hey boss can I get my paycheck? No Why not, I did what you wanted, did I do something wrong? Maybe Well can you tell me what it was? All I'll say is its something you did on Tuesday. If any kind of in person job did this then they'd have a strike or eventually word would spread and they wouldn't be able to hire anyone. All I want youtube to do is be real with at least their creators and just say look we cant just allow everything cuz the advertisers won't allow it so lets reach some happy medium and deal with it. On a completely unrelated note I just found out about a series called monster girl doctor, thought it seemed up your alley, no pun intended.

Secular Succotash

***WARNING*** This comment’s long as hell. You chose real good topics Alichu, I had a lot to say! Seriously though, I basically wrote a fucking dissertation. I give this warning out of respect for your time I don’t think my stance on AI art has changed any from the last time it was brought up but I guess I’ll articulate my thoughts more this time around than just “AI bad”. First off, I genuinely think AI can be a useful tool such as generating references, creating ideas from text prompts, and stuff like that. However, I still don’t consider it real art and I don’t know if I ever will, since there’s no real creativity behind it. There’s no artist behind the scenes, striving to improve themselves in every piece. No hours spent carefully crafting something they’re proud of. No puzzling over “how tf do I make this pose look right” lol. AI doesn’t have any of that, so I can’t truly call it art. It’ll likely always remain “computer generated images” in my eyes. Pretty computer generated images to be sure, but not art. But really there’s no issue with that, it’s “just…like…my opinion man.” What is art then? Fuck if I know, that’s like philosophy or some shit and I ain’t getting into that right now. I’m already writing a whole ass novel over here lol. My only real problem with AI art is that takes commissions away from real artists. Not because AI art is “better” but because of simple supply and demand. AI will always win the supply game since it can generate art infinitely faster than a human can. That means AI art can be sold much cheaper, undercutting real artists and essentially pricing them out of the market. The whole Wacom sitch is a perfect example. Even though Wacom is a company that sells equipment to artists who would’ve been thrilled to accept a commission from them, it was probably just cheaper to AI generate stuff. They’re a business after all, why pay an artist and wait for them to draw something for you when you can just generate something on the spot for next to nothing? (Really though that was a boneheaded move. How tf they think that was gonna go?) This whole thing isn’t unique to artists alone either. AI/automation leads to human obsolescence in all kinds of career fields. Just look at the self-checkout kiosks in grocery stores for a prime example. TL;DR AI can be an awesome tool but likely does more harm than good by taking commissions away from real artists. Finally, it SHOULD go without saying but this is the internet after all. Being a dick is never the right answer. Even if you disagree with someone, personal attacks and harassment aren’t excusable. Besides you don’t win over hearts and minds that way, you just make yourself look immature and well…like a dick. Do I hate AI art taking jobs from artists? Yeah, I do. Do I hate the people who generate AI art? Of course not, they’re just tryna make a buck like anyone else. They didn’t make the game we call capitalism. they’re just playing it. Same as all of us. I agree with you that it’s sad some people feel discouraged to draw, thinking AI art is “better” than them. My answer to that is the same as people feeling discouraged by thinking other artists are “better” than them: I won’t ask them to not compare themself to others. It’s inevitable, it’s human nature. I don’t even think it’s necessarily a BAD thing to compare yourself to others. The issue doesn’t lie in comparing yourself to others, it lies in HOW you compare yourself to others. Instead of looking at an artist you admire and thinking “oh I’ll never be that good I should just give up”, try to think, “I’m not that good right now, so how do I get there?” That mentality has helped me personally a lot at least. It shifts the focus from a defeatist mentality to a growth mentality, and is more constructive than the old, “just don’t compare yourself to others”. And finally, on people changing their minds. I’m with you 100% on pretty much everything you said. Changing your mind isn’t a bad thing at all, I mean as long as it doesn’t change for the worse lol. It reminds me of a little comic I saw once where this guy is spouting off some misinformation. Someone explains the truth of the matter to the first guy prompting him to say, “Wait. If I change my mind now, doesn’t that mean I’m a hypocrite?” To which the second guy says, “No. It means you’ve grown.” That quote really stuck with me, and it’s pretty much exactly what you said here. I think a lot of people, including me, can get so worried about being seen as a hypocrite and being shunned by their friends or family that they’re afraid to admit when they changed their mind. I’ll spare my life story but I was a lot worse with that when I was younger. Anyway, I’m putting this last thing at the end here cause it fit NOWHERE else in this “comment” (more like an essay at this point) Also it’s a fun note to end on after all those opinions: Yeah peach is a hard flavor to nail down in a drink, real hit or miss. I find artificial peach tends to share one too many flavor notes with barf, and can easily taste like a mouthful o’ vom if not done right. Okay I’m finally done typing this monstrosity out. I got work tomorrow, need to sleep haha

bcs

wow looks like everyone has these massive posts. neat. looks like you drew a 'certain genre' of art on your pixiv recently. i was surprised to see it but it's fine.

ProzXADYN

Now I'm no artist, last time I drew anything was probably 5 or 6 years ago, and I could never properly commit, so I can't speak much about AI art, but I can speak about AI from a CompSci point, since I think almost every exam I've had to do has had at least one "Ethics of AI" question on it 😆. Being that, I am very much aware of the impact of AI and it's benefits, which in many fields tends to be a positive, however that's why the ethical issues exist, AI is good when it is designed specifically for something, and is being fed data, and people fear that it'll take their jobs (one of the biggest ethical issues). But I think that's the wrong way to think about it. Don't get me wrong the threat isn't not real, but I think if you entrusted the entirety of someone's job to an AI you're making a bad decision, as I think AI would serve a better purpose as an advisory position, rather than a decision maker. It can do all the calculations and analysis mumbo jumbo, but the final decision should always be with the human. Comparing this to AI art, the biggest issue, morally speaking is probably the fact that AI has to use data from past artwork in order to create its own. I think the mindset people have of 'Why should I do art if an AI could do it better' is a flawed mentality, as AI inherently lacks the human element of art. It can make art, but there is no creativity or imagination behind it, at a base level, it is finding keywords and aligning coloured pixels in similar order to images with the same keywords, with some extra steps to make sure the created image doesn't look too horrific. I don't think any of this means we should limit or delay AI developments, but as I did mention, we shouldn't let them do jobs for us. TLDR I ramble out my arse, AI good for advising not for doing job. As for YouTube, well YouTube is YouTube. And as for growing up and changing views, I definitely hard agree on what you said. As humans we're constantly learning, and adapting our views based on what we know is something I agree with, but I'll admit I am cautious in changing my opinions, at least until I know for sure the information is at least factual or based in some form of sanity 😆. Have a good one Ali, hopefully you don't mind my arse talking.