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WHY DID WE DO THIS?! (Patreon)

Published:
2018-09-14 02:26:27
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Addressing the controversies about our new Flash Fried release strategy. 

Files

Previews only

Why are we doing this?!

Hopefully, this will clarify a few things.

Comments

Oliver Edward Morgan

I don't give a shit. I want to know answers to *real* questions. Like WHY ARE YOU CLOSED!? THE PEOPLE OF THE EDEN CENTER DESERVE TO KNOW!!

danielg603

Thank you for being frank with us. I’m in support of whatever will get you guys out to more people. You only owe us Patreon perks the rest is your prerogative. Thanks for letting $5 patrons have the full shows very kind of you👌

AnotherAgnostic

I thought the $5 patreons got to see the shows live? It's only for $10 members? That's lame.

AnotherAgnostic

Just release the whole thing... then create clips after. EZPZ.

Nicholas Hartmann

Makes sense to me. I do find it hard to sit through an hour and a half show.

OothecaPickle
>>15482073

he's talking about flash fried not regular dff shows; $5 patrons have never had access to flash fried live

AnotherAgnostic

So what is the advantage of being a $5 member?

OothecaPickle

yea but why can't u just release the full show and the clips? this doesn't make much sense to me.

Jonathan King

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining the changes!

Anonymous

makes sense, but having a fuckload of clips filling up dff's video page might be annoying though

Jamesontickles

Can you put the full episode on youtube though? I can't access the patreon via my work wifi and so I'll only be able to listen to the clips at work :C D:

fatheramo1

makes alot of sense to me. I don't really like that it is now a paid thing for the full show as it once was not and I just became a patron so normally I would have not been able to listen to the full show, although I can see where this is coming from in trying to show people everything you talk about with out a 10 paragraph title.

Lara Ava

Fully support your decision. Bitches are going to bitch.

KDerp

I don't have an issue with what ur doing but it would be nice if you explained it beforehand instead of after. Otherwise I'm fine with it.

AnotherAgnostic

Joe Rogan just puts the clips on a second account... I think it's called JRClips.

Realzodiackiller

I will forgive you if you fix the damn archive already. Love you guys!

danielg603

Watch the video man. Seriously this is insane. He posted this video to resolve the issue. The full flash fried is available here for all patrons. $10 get to see it live, $5 get it a bit later but all get the whole thing

Ingrid

Could you please space out when you release the clips? The spamming on my subscription feed makes me a lot less likely to click on them. I suspect others might feel the same way

Isaiah Miller

If this is the reason why do you not put up the whole show as well for those who want it? The clips will still go more wide while those who want the whole show can get it.

Sev Obzen

Knew it. Totally understandable. As long as I can still get access to the full show I'm happy. Would really like you to start uploading Abandon Hope in full for the patrons the same day you record it.

MrG

Alright TJ. I think this will stop most of the bitching coming from us $5+ Patrons. We just want access to the full episodes. Just be prepared for the shit storm that is to continue coming from the non-Patrons. Also, may I simply request releasing full episodes of Abandon Hope to us $5+ Patrons 6-12 hours after that airs as well?

Sam Bray

You specifically said that you weren't going to take anything away from the current tiers of DFF, and that you were only going to expand upon them. So I guess that plan has gone out the window. It's the non-patrons who this would concern the most. You should be uploading this for them. We were all non-patrons at one point and it's stuff like this that makes it seem like it's going to become harder and harder for your content to be accessible.

Sev Obzen
>>15482375

You control your feed. I'm sure they would tell you that you're welcome to unsubscribe.

danielg603
>>15482109

The whole thing is posted for patrons of both levels. They are just not releasing them in full on YouTube for the public bc that makes more sense. Plus “Flash Fried” as a concept makes more sense in short segments. What is the problem?

Sev Obzen
>>15482201

Get a YouTube downloader and put the file on your phone. Problem solved.

Anonymous

Why can't you leave the long video up along with pumping out the clips? Why does the broadcast have to go unlisted for a week (talking about Abandon Hope)?

Sev Obzen
>>15482315

It's not going to get fixed. They say they're working on something new and better that will integrate with patreon accounts.

danielg603
>>15482426

Did you not watch this video man? The whole video is available to all patrons on both levels. Nothing has changed except that they aren’t making the full flash videos available to the public. Consider it an additional perk. In fact, the post before this one was the full flash fried from yesterday. What is the problem?

danielg603
>>15482446

What have you lost from your tier? Literally Nothing. “Flash fried” (even just the name) makes more sense this way and is preferable for sharing. I frequently want to share segments of this show bc most people won’t sit through the whole thing who have no connection to DFF

Brian

You should make the live FF available to $5 patrons. And start making AH available to $5 patrons so we don’t have to wait a month to see the full show.

Doug & Katie

You guys are making all the right decisions -- stick to your guns

Doug & Katie

Actually, I do have a gripe. I think the logo is off-putting. If the goal's to attract new eyeballs. the first glance is pretty dark

Anonymous

Meh. I dig the logo.

Anonymous

Odin bless Deep Fat Fried

Pengmaeda

Shouldn't the ones your telling this to be the people that can't see this only $5 Patron Video? Its probably going to spark some idk...confusion?

David

Yeah i get it, Thanks for you'r honesty and your content.

Anonymous

Well I guess thats understandable, you guys deserve more subs and views for sure. I have to say though, us long time Youtube viewers dont like our sub box spammed by one channel, so maybe consider breaking it up into slightly longer segments? Im subbed to like 400 channels, so when one channels spams my feed I just start ignoring those videos. Right now im seeing 6 of your videos on my subscriber page... thats just way too much.

Moony Reel

We get it, but are non-patrons gonna get it?

Mazy

This makes total sense, fuck the whiners.

Daniel Melle

Wait wait wait.. I still get everything I was getting? Kewl

KaBob

Wait... people were bitching about this?

Anonymous

It makes sense, they are just bitching. Selfish mofos

Arcterus

I can't say I'm surprised. I remember people going nuts over DP releasing small clips on the channel also. I already didn't give a shit, but it definitely makes sense when you realize what a vast disparity there is between releasing one long video and slicing it into multiple clips which pertain to more specific topics.

NoelleIsDead

All I care about is that I can still watch the show in full and that the cat didn’t eat the lizard

Tito Manfredo

Meh...I'm not totally convinced but I understand your logic with regard to views if that is your primary concern.

Anonymous

It's fine guys, I'm a happy patron. My only request is more Cinema 4 Cynics content. x)

Rachel Whimpenny

It cool to cut them up for new fans, but as long as we can still access the full show later. I just like to stick the full show on and watch from start to finish.

Chimpso

One of the main reasons I was so happy to throw $5 a month at you from the start was because you said that would be the only tier, and that it would give us access to everything. The more you gate things, the more I regret that decision.

Miguel pantoja

I was pissed at first mainly cuz I drive a 18 wheeler for a living and I love listening to u guys while I’m at work and I can’t be constantly scrolling thru clips. But that explanation was 100%.

The Deputy Of Common Sense

Hey, no worries mate. I've been a patron since a few months after you guys started. All these people that are getting their knickers in a twist just need to expand their perspective. I recommend some weed-cough-I mean perfectly legal tobacco. Ordinary, everyday, doesn't have THC tobacco. Have a good one mate.

Faith

I'm with the majority who support you going for more well deserved views, especially since patrons still get the show in full. In relation to what you're doing with DFF now, I hope you consider releasing Abandon Hope for patrons in full the day afterward rather than a month afterward.

Talisen Amell

Well I don’t care I still get the full show so yeah ... (oh a think, thing ah) SCAMMED AGAIN (knew a forgot something)

Matt Schilling

I totally support your decision, but this explanation should be put up publicly

Venny

Three things: 1 - Why not just post the whole show AND the clips for everyone? I guess put this one first because I'm probably overlooking something. 2 - Why not warn us about the change beforehand? That's a question everyone was asking, but this video doesn't adress it. 3 - Most importantly, why not let this explanation video go public? I just don't see a reason for it being exclusive to patreons.

Anonymous

I do not agree with this idea. You are creating a tier system for your fans. I only joined because you said it would be $5 flat rate. Now there is a $10 group, and now you are excluding more from regular viewers. I do not like this.

Thomas Levy

I support this decision, but please post this explanation publicly. Also, please release the full Abandon Hope episodes for patreons as well. Lastly: "My cat trying to eat my lizard." - TJ Kirk 2018.

Home of da BONE

I welcome this. Makes the $5 I pay that much more special. Fuck your haters, you three get me through day to day.

Anonymous

could you guys please look into why pretty much all older episodes (going back 3month and older) don't work anymore???

BallTech

The old, "my cats trying to eat my lizard" trick. Scammer till the end TJ.

gay faggot

im a patreorn so i will eat any shit you put on my plate

deadkill27

While I don't really care if I see the show live, I don't want to have to wait an extra day to see it. The whole "see the show live" thing was a decision you guys made when you announced the $10 tier as a way of attracting people to it, but it didn't take anything away from people who wanted to remain in the 5 dollar tier. It was just an added bonus. I don't think it's right to take away privileges of patrons that are already paying you. I think you guys should continue to post flash fried for the 5 dollar patrons within an hour or two after you shoot it like you have always done.

Anonymous

Eh you yourself have said that you're not making shit from YouTube. So why even bother with getting more views on the platform if your main source of income comes from patreon. Just seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot as it may push people away from supporting.

Kristofer Foster

ok guys, not my preferred way of doing things, but you made a reasonable argument. the way youtube works you probably had to. glad to be a chef's table patron. looking forward to more content soon. take care.

William Young

It's cool I can just unsub until you give up on this.

Alex

Who is giving you shit about this? This was a great idea..

No name Maddox

Thanks TJ. We get plenty of content. This strategy just makes sense. Kyle does the same thing.

Oliver Edward Morgan
>>15487399

1 is debatable but 2 and 3 are very valid and agreeable. I think at the very least this video should be made public now.

Justin Gay

Honestly I think it's a PR blunder, but it's your guys shit do what you want. It could of been announced and eased in to hinder the backlash honestly. First week announce why you did it, also release the uncut version. Hell maybe do that for 2 or 3 weeks; then make Flash Fried uncut a Patreon only show.

Oliver Edward Morgan
>>15489206

YT is still a good distribution hub and more eyeballs does potentially mean more patrons. Other shows do this. TYT's bread and butter is their membership service where you can view the full show and other shows rather than just clips, but they bring people in with the clips. Its the hardcore fans who are willing to pony up $10 a month. Casuals can just binge the clips and get just as much content.

Kingzilla

In my opinion this is all about making the ten dollar tier better without adding anything new to it. Instead you just take away from 5dollar patrons. Get the full show to us by 10 every Wednesday Just like before. You’re stripping content from 5dollar patrons bottom line.

Kingzilla
>>15488731

I agree as long as the 5 dollar patrons get th show at the same exact time as always then I have no problem. Otherwise you’re stripping content in order to make the higher tier better. And they didn’t even acknowledge that part in the video.

Kingzilla
>>15483881

Yeah it does make sense strip awa content from 5 dollar patrons and it makes the 10 dollar tier better without actually adding anything to it. Get us 5 dollar patrons the full show at the same time we always get it and that’s fair enough.

Private Lee Speaking

TJ I completely understand why you cut up the show and don’t want to release the full show to non patrons but why take away the live show from the $5 patrons? This is a move that would be better suited when you guys grow more and have more content but most of us can’t justify spending $10 a month yet.

Anonymous
>>15491395

5 dollar patrons never got the live Wednesday show that's always been 10$ tier personally I think it's fair to break it up for non patrons but for 5$ patrons they should still get the full show by Wednesday at the latest.

TheMedsPeds

I was furious until you said that us $5 kids can still get the full show. I mean, if you truly think about it Flash Fried wasn't even a thing for the first like 4 months of the podcast. The show was presented as 2 episodes a week 1 for free 1 for pay. I think the non paying fans just got comfortable with Flash Fried and didn't like it taken away. So I don't 100% totally agree with/respect this decision but I at least see where you are coming from. My biggest grievance is that it's not that non-patrons aren't "hardcore fans" a lot of them are underage and literally don't have credit/debit/pay pal and they were used to getting free content and then POOF 5 minute clips, with no warning. BUT overall, I will accept this. C+, DFF, you get a C+ on this from me.

Sir Drinkalot

Thanks for letting us know that we’ll get the full shows. Everything is fine again.

Brad with the biceps

I am not sure why there's ever "backlask." It should be obvious why you guys did it, and it sucks that you had to hold the hands of some whiners... the only time I'll bitch is the content stops. Haha.

Øyvind PT

What a shitty explanation. Youre ignoring the huge elephant in the room. WHY NOT PUT OUT BOTH? Put out the full version then clips. Everyone is happy. Looks like you guys are just fishing for more money by putting FF behind a paywall and using this clip shit as a smokescreen. At least be direct you greedy fucks. Still dropping my patronage at the end of the month.

Mr. Kinkaid

Before I even start the video I know why you guys did this. It's obviously a marketing strategy. Pretty good one too.

Anonymous

I guess the main reason why there is a backlash is because this decision was made unannounced and with no reasoning given. Furthermore, even though this decision is beneficial I don't see why you can't make the full show public alongside the clips.

DFFPodcast
>>15497441

Putting out both is called "content redundancy" and it actually hurts the viewership of content. Hopefully that explains it for you.

Nicholas Reed

I agree that explaining this in advance would not have changed the initial reaction. The mistake was not to give this explanation at or immediately after release-time. Initial disappointment fades away. But damaging "narratives" about your operation do not. As we know from politics and entertainment news, a single early story that misreports information can control the narrative forever. With no official explanation, the narratives start being created: Maybe the show isn't coming out. Maybe it's been canceled. Maybe the episode isn't going up for non-patrons at all. Shitty. Maybe only parts of the show are going up for non-patrons. Also shitty. Are those true... no. But now they might as well be, especially on an emotional level, since we already had to think all those things and experience all the negative reaction as if they were true. And the standard creator response to this objection is always, "how could you be so stupid as to think we'd do x, y, or z?" Probably right after they've said "you can't honestly expect us to always do the same thing", and "you have to see how this makes sense from a business perspective." I've seen so many channels make this mistake. Do you know how many videos start with, "I know we said we weren't going to do a video on this but..."? You can't have it both ways. You can't be entirely free to make whatever creative and business decisions you want, and then be surprised when people don't have good instincts for you would or wouldn't do. We only know what you would or wouldn't do based on what you actually do. We only know your reasoning for a change if you actually tell us the reason.

Nicholas Reed

This could be just a personal thing, but you should also know that this change does not leave things "the same" for me by virtue of my being a patron. Things are very much worse for me with this change. Before, I got a notification for Flash Fried from YouTube on my phone, and I clicked through to watch the video. Now, I get a Patreon notification in my e-mail inbox, and it gets buried under a hundred other emails, but eventually, I see it. I click on the link. Then I have to log into Patreon because it always logs me out automatically. Patreon is really finicky about new devices and IP's and the browser you happen to be using, so about 70% of the time I log into Patreon, I have to wait 5 minutes for a verification email before I can actually log in. Then, I get to see the Patreon post, and in order to watch it in YouTube where I get better playback and my place in the video saved if I have to stop watching and resume later, I either 1) click the "watch later as me" link if I'm signed into Google, which I'm not always, and can't do properly on mobile, or 2) I click on the share arrow and click the YouTube link to launch the YouTube app. And then I can finally start watching. Then, when I get 5 YouTube notifications for new Deep Fat Fried episodes that are just clips of the full episode, I have to ignore them because I've already seen the show. And then I consider disabling notifications because I've got work to do and if 80% of notifications are for content I've already seen, then what's the point in enabling them?

Vedren

Oh my god! Patrons get the episode a day later than usual. Oh, the horror. Oh my god! People that don't pay shit don't get the whole show in one block. Oh, the horror. Doom! Doom! Doom!

Billy Goate

I don't see what the big fuss is about. I wish I could get inspired to write that much about pretty much anything, though.

805dev

Totally understand. I love all the shit you guys put out. Paul a retard

Yishai Ben Yakov-Leib

It's cool. Like a longer format but gotta do watcha gotta. Understood.

Holly Crane

Do what you need to so you can get a bigger audience! Also, Paul is awesome!

KevinFarr

I am glad I recently became a patron and signed up for patreon. This would be another bit of content I would miss out on if I didn't. Been following Tj Kirk for about as long as his career on youtube. It is about time I contribute something in fact Deep Fat Fried is the only channel I gladly support with my money. I thought to myself Tj, Paul, and Scotty have been a major part of my life for many years, and have enhanced my youtube experience. It is time I give back to them for many years of entertaining and informative content. I held out for awhile thinking the winds of youtube might change but it is self evident it will never change. I was miffed Flash Fried didn't appear on youtube but I find it easier to forgive Deep Fat Fried being a patron now. I just wanted to say despite the controversy you guys have had a profound impact on my existence. Thank you for never allowing yourselves to let your channels die. People will have a problem with this change but they will have to cope or become a patron and finally contribute to making Deep Fat Fried the greatest Patreon on Patreon. Now enough sucking your collective micro penises. All hail Deep Fat Fried!

Anonymous

That's a brilliant fucking business decision and keeps everybody happy. You're gonna reach a lot of new people and grow the channel.

Dante Walters

I would love to see Abandon hope uploaded in full to the patreon.

Joel Miller

Squeaks sucks. Also I'm cool with it, no big deal.

Tacki Kawabata

Your reasoning is sensible. Why not just upload the show in full form AND in clip form? Is there a limit to how much stuff you can upload in a given time frame? I know it takes time to upload videos so maybe figuring out an upload schedule would be a pain in the ass. I just figured you would still show your broke fans that you appreciate them, while still moving forward with the short clips and getting some new eyeballs on your channel. No need to alienate any of your fan base. You already upload the full video to something anyway right?

HiRoAZ

Seems totally reasonable. It took me many months to accept that the DDF crew is putting out long videos. I normally don't have 2+ hours to watch a video, but I got used to dealing with this. TJs old content was highly researched and produced and then distilled down to 5 - 15 min. This is the typical youtuve video length.Now they just let have all of it without cutting, some like it some dont. I do.

Sprite

completely understandable and very logical

Regan Thompson
>>15511314

Yeah can we talk about how I keep seeing TJ streaming abandon hope and it’s never on here, I can never find the full video after. And I think that’s a valid complaint, fuck this flash fried shit they need to deliver on the abandon hope for this month and I’ll be happy

Roy Koopa

For once, this actually makes sense and it smart.

Roy Koopa

For once, this actually makes sense and it smart.

Marcus Esbach

ok this is fair, and probably good for the reach of the channel

Mark Kok

For the people bitching about this

Mark Kok

Just pay the fucking 5 bucks losers

Christian McDougall

I think a lot of fans see DFF as a continuation of the Drunken Peasants; which, in a sense, it is. However, that appeal only reaches so far. This is a good move to increase the viewership of DFF.

Shinabu

As long as I can watch the full videos on patreon or the archive, I'm happy.

Crimm

So, I'll always be a patreon when I can, I don't even use the majority of the perks and haven't in some time because I prefer Abandon Hope. When you upload clips to Abandon Hope, you also give everyone an opportunity to watch it live for access to the full content. The last DFF show was approximately 90 minutes long and the clips released to the public amount to 40 minutes of content on something that is labeled "public" on your patreon page. I completely understand the free members perspective on this though my loyalty to quality of the products TJ produces and his ability to control his content overrides their upset, imo, but it is something to consider if you have no plans to release the episode to the free members in full.

Jonas Englund

I'm fine with this since patrons get the full episode soon after but could this be done for the regular AH as well?

H3Vtux

I've said this before and I will say it again. $5 a month for 8+ hours of content is dirt cheap. Anybody who cares enough to freak out about not having access to said content obviously enjoys it quite a bit. Spending $5 a month for 8+hours of content you enjoy is an absolute steal.

Sev Obzen
>>15490123

I imagine they figured there would be an unreasonable backlash no matter how they went about making these changes so they didn't bother being that tactful. Just get rid of all the easily butt hurt little bitches immediately. I suspect there will be many changes like this throughout PP's lifespan that will serve in part as a purge of unwanted fans to avoid gaining a fan base like DP's again.

Sev Obzen

How does it negatively impact $5 patrons at all?

Sev Obzen
>>15485725

I don't honestly recall them ever saying definitively that it would only be one tier. At best they said one tier to start and likely very few if any extra tiers.

Sev Obzen
>>15483127

If that image or the name is too much for a new viewer don't you think they will find the personalities of the hosts to be far worse? Which is to say the show probably isn't for people that easily offended.

Mason Butler

"Good Reasons" is a weird way to say greed

Restitutor Orbis

This reasoning is fine, just explain it. You should explain it to the rest as well. They deserve that.

SvP

then release both clips and the full episodes aswell