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RADEON vs GeForce in 2022 – How are we feeling? (Die Shrink Telegrams) (Patreon)

Published:
2022-09-06 20:50:54
Edited:
2022-09-06 20:52:10
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

This is an episode we knew we wanted to do at some point before Lovelace and RDNA 3 launched - How do we all feel about RADEON vs GeForce?

It's a quieter month (so far) on the Next Gen GPU rumor front, so now seems like a good time to take a step back, and discuss:

What has Nvidia done well with Ampere? What should they have done better?

What has RADEON done well with RDNA 2? What should they have done better?

Has RADEON gained any mindshare this gen?

What features make you buy RADEON? What features make you buy Nvidia?

If an AMD card and an Nvidia card literally had the same performance and VRAM, which would probably buy? What would the "loser" in your answer need to do for you to switch sides next gen?

We aren't just here to talk about specs - a lot of this is meant to be viewed through the lens of mindshare, features, and what you typically get out of either a RADEON or GeForce product.  

You have ~3 hours to submit comments, thoughts, and questions below!  Submissions must be concise, use good grammar, and be thoughtful to be considered.

Comments

KarbinCry

I am completely appalled at the topic heading. You insinuate there is only Radeon and GeForce, completely omitting the ARC. Unsubscribed, de-Patron'd. Justice for AXG.

Friedrich Günther

Is there any chance you could get a HPC dev in for an inside perspective on AMDs software stack for compute (and maybe machine learning)? I am very interested what such an opinion would be, since my experiences with RDNA2 and OpenCL were somewhat spotty, let's say.

Crast

I was one of the ones who snagged an amd.com MSRP GPU back in Jan 2021 and I managed to help a few friends with the same. I'd say this was AMD's smartest move (even if limited only to western europe & US) this generation for improving mind share. Even the biggest haters couldn't really argue with a GPU $400 or more cheaper than anything else in that category.

Falto

If both cards had exact same performance and vram I'd probably buy the Nvidia one because of better emulator support and my applications use Cuda. For me to switch to amd, Radeon should greatly improved support in those areas.

Samuel Park

Upon hearing the rumored performance numbers, I was originally thinking that AMD might be good to go with this generation. However, there are a couple of dealbreakers that would prevent me from doing so. The first and foremost is the NVENC encoder. I know that Discord uses the NVENC encoder but I am not sure if they use the AMD one. Even if you don't stream regularly, it's pretty common to stream a game to friends on Discord. The second is AI/DL. AMD does not even have a toe, much less a foothold, in this space. The rise popularity of AI/DL applications with the release of popular image generators such as Stable Diffusion, compels hobbyists to go for Nvidia if they have any interest in applications such as that whatsoever.

Tim K

One thing I can say Nvidia championed with Ampere was improved Ray tracing performance and application acceleration. It is truly a beast. Idk what anyone has to say but anyone who needed 24GB of VRAM but didn’t need the professional drivers, 3090 did it all. A lot of people I know in 3D modeling and video editing dashed out to get the 3090 as soon as they could and they are really happy with their purchase. I could also say that Nvidia did Ampere amazingly in the Professional lineup. 48GB A6000? The A2000 SFF card? The A2000 was a HUGE improvement over the T1000. You got FP32 performance of almost a 3060, you got MOST IMPORTANTLY tensor cores, and as a bonus, RT cores. Those are great GPUs in the markets and industries they are geared to serve. What could have Nvidia done better? Probably not over inflated TDP on the GeForce cards. Also HUGE thing I’m going to blame every AIB now, they cheaped out on the thermal pads and thermal paste. Every brand, every card had some sort of difficulty cooling the GDDR6X, and no I don’t believe GDDR6X is to blame at all. It’s the piss poor design specs that Nvidia allowed AIBs and even themselves to get away with cheap ass shit quality thermal pads (Im looking at you Gigabyte and Zotac), and sometimes really dry hard paste that looked like they were 5 years out of expiration date. It’s extremely obvious in the A6000 where tear downs clearly demonstrated Nvidia called for high quality thermal pads for double sided GDDR6. How come not for GDDR6X? I think they wasted more time trying to get 2GB IC G6X chips on the 3090 Ti than just spending a fraction of the money to just use damn better pads!

BrazGhost

Honestly, I am going Nvidia again this year. I love that AMD is growing and improving each generation. The main problem I had was drivers. I used a laptop that had 6800M and it had great reviews (this was months into the 6800M release). Though, when I started using, games were crashing and the performance was not matching reviewers. I had friends that got the RX6700xt also had problems. In my life at this moment with less time, I rather have reliability even if it is more expensive and slightly worse performance. Also for the people that might call me AMD hater, I am a big AMD investor. A company with a large room for growth.

Hugo Ander Kivi

I am hoping to see more impressive raytracing tech and utilisation alongside it. I think it has great potential, and it should transfer from a gimmicky technology to a need-to-have.

Hardlin

I was an ATI/AMD user more than an Nvidia user until the 9x0 series came out and I had a power supply blow up on me taking drives, motherboard and video card out. Since then I don't feel AMD has kept up until the latest rumors of the new Radeon series. I have experienced more Nvidia driver issues than AMD driver issues in my time, but I feel that's just part of the PC world. I hope they are basically identical in performance so people have options again

Timo H

Hi. So far clear rdna3 due to expected efficiency benefit. Hard driver issues May force to look Back on Nvidia or Even Intel If they step up a lot. Do you expect AMD continue flawless driver track record(this year driver updates) and can they even up their game somehow(gaming,not Pro Radeon cards ) ?

CompressedAIBlocks

Hey Tom, hope you're doing well. This will be a long one (sorry bud). This will be the comment of a gamer and indie developer. I can't comment on the what Nvidia has done well as much as I can AMD, I just don't think they've done as much as AMD has (even if it's for AMD to catch up). I think Nvidia has basically built upon what they've already excelled in (studio/professional) but AMD has been consistently pushing consumer and bringing performance increases, new features/tech (FSR 2.0 support, noise suppression etc) to AMD, and just building up a more stable software stack. They still have ways to go but AMD has improved the most in software (comparing them to older AMD). I think the recent thing that came out states market share is 80% Nvidia and 20% AMD, this has improved. I believe it was 84/16 at one point pre-RDNA. I think they are gaining mind share but it is very slow, and will continue to be slow as Nvidia does so much more things right than Intel did making them retain people easier IMO. I just support AMD because generally speaking they've been more stable for me in terms of software and I haven't had hardware just die on me (8800GT in StarCraft 2 launch) due to drivers. Speaking also from developer point of view, I am a BIG supporter of FOSS (Free and Open Source Software) and AMD tends to support open source/standards with software and even more some of their own tech open and I appreciate that A LOT more than being pigeon holed into an ecosystem. I would almost always buy an AMD GPU over Nvidia when I can and it makes sense. I am mostly a mid range gamer and AMD fits the bill and hasn't let me down for hardware or software since the ATI days. I have owned GeForce GPUs in the past but it'd have to be such a good deal for me to even consider Nvidia, the 8800 GT that I owned was a free GPU I received from my brother. I am so sorry this was as long as it was Tom but you asked a lot of questions and this is why I love writing in. Feel free to chop this up as you see fit instead of doing it ALL at once.

Ellertis

The one thing I would comment on is that I`m thankful to AMD for not completely abandoning the 200-300$ gpu market yet. Though the signs of them doing that in the future are clear enough. I`m currently scouting the second hand market for the navi23 gpu that are precisely in that price range, because my old rx 470 died a week ago. Even though my placeholder gtx 760 technically runs 90% of the games I play. I`d rather buy a relatively cheap gpu right now, than wait for navi33 to come out, if it wont stay forever in laptops. Will low end Lovelace storm the budget market in 2023?

Jeff Sedler

Good afternoon, With AMD going to multi-dye on their GPUs and Nvidia still running monolithic, how is it even going to be close on top model performance? If AMD was running similar performance as Nvidia using two tiles, couldn't they just use four or more tiles and downright embarrass nvidia? Double the number of tiles and offer double the 4090Ti's performance? Love the show! Ps. I'm running a 3600x & 2070 Super. I am so looking forward to upgrading! I'll likely be all AMD for the first time!

Io 12

even if the two cards had the same look , performance , price , rtx etc , i would still choose nvidia because there are things i use like ansel which allows you to directly access the game to take screenshots in crazy resolutions like 63360×35640 (which to this day still blows my mind when I analyze them) , screenshots for vr, I know it's a gimmick and not all games support it but I have like 300 gb in screenshots I think even 20 percent of extra performance would not convince me ,http://gigapixelgaming.com/media/gigapixel/AnselWitcher3.html

Hugo Ander Kivi

I'm also excited for RDNA 3 multichip architecture and how it's going to perform. It's certainly going to revolutionise the GPU industry.

KaiserAullirio

I feel an odd urge to go red this Gen and see whats happening over there. If at 1440p the 7900xt matches at least the 4080 in ray tracing and matches the 4090 in rasterization, I probably buy the AMD flagship without much hemming and hawing. Anything less decisive and game specific benchmarks will make the difference. I might wait for Starfield or RE4 Remake benchmarks. At that point, if the winds start saying that a Titan or 7950xt is in the wings for the first half of next year, I may wait to see if I can get a deal on a 4090 or 7900xt on ebay from a hyperenthusiast looking to upgrade.

Cleansweep

Realistically, the only thing AMD could've done better with RDNA 2 is design Navi 24 to be a dual-purpose laptop/low end desktop GPU from the start. That might've made the RX 6500 XT a more compelling product when launched or as a backup GPU. Having jumped to AMD once prices dropped enough for me to get an RX 6600, the only way I'm going back to Nvidia is if they remove Geforce Experience's log-in requirement. If AMD & Nvidia had cards at the exact same performance & VRAM, I'll take the AMD card every day, even if it has a worse encoder or performance in certain productivity apps. At the very least, I'll have full access to the GPU's software stack without having to add to the pile of online accounts I have to manage. I just want to be able to use the stuff I paid for without dumb usability barriers that only exist give Nvidia personal data/ad space to sell.

Io 12

example if you take a screenshot in super resolution in a game like final fantasy of the city being miles away you can zoom in so much that you can clearly see the entire city and the low resolution model which is impossible to do in a capture at 4 or 8 or 16 k, I love to do that kind of thing

Chris Rijk

In 2020, it felt like the overall discussion could be boiled down to "by how much can AMD close the gap?" but this time feels more like "who is going to come out on top?". While I expect there to be a lot of interest in who takes the overall performance crown, I wonder if that will turn out to be the most important factor in practice. Would it be worse for Nvidia to lose the performance crown narrowly with a small price gap or narrowly win in performance but with a huge price gap?

KingKoro

For Radeon, I think Software Stack saw a huge improvement with RDNA2, advancing from almost rock bottom. Especially under Linux, gaming performance is really good compared to Ampere, but they still need to invest more in compute, AI cores, 2D/3D rendering and hardware encoders. The big flaw of RDNA2 in my opinion is, that beyond gaming, it really has no unique selling point for professionals. Atleast ROCm is somewhat supported since this year, even RDNA1 now, but they need to work more on non-gaming Software/Hardware Features. If they improve these things, I could see myself buying RDNA3/4.

Richard Paul

So for me it has to be launching anti-consumer features that introduce vendor lock-in that make thd difference to me. So I just won't buy Nvidia nowadays. Not that I'm buying anything these days as the pricing has just gone insane and I don't see why I should buy some mediocre midrange card for a lot of money instead of the highish end that I used to to buy.

Mic dangerfield

I have a RX 6800 non xt and I love it , this is the first Amd graphic card I've ever owned, and for the most part I've had no problems. I actually had a Rtx 3070 during the GPU Armageddon and my girlfriend need a graphic card for work so I stop lying to myself that one day I might be a video editor let her have my 3070 and gave Radeon a shot after finding a rare deal on the card at the time something I never taught I would do in the past. I was surprised at the suite of features in Radeon software that I feel no one talks about ,so now I'm will to give any future card from them a shot , I'm still cool with Nvidia but Radeon has made an impression.

AI Generated Fish

I look at AMD GPUs as very much a budget brand as things stand currently in 2022. I've owned both a 6800xt and 6600xt on desktop as well as a 3070 laptop. I believe DLSS still gives Nvidia a leg up (even though I don't own any games which feature it) and they have to get FSR into more AAA games to get feature parity. I feel like from a mindshare and brand perception perspective, AMD has to overwhelmingly win raster price to performance to gain market share. Based on what I've heard from leaks, I'd buy navi 32 if competitively priced (I wouldn't pay a premium for AMD). Also, like many people, I have no plans to actually buy the upcoming generation of GPUs regardless of performance.

cockblockula

The mobile market is going to be especially interesting. I think efficiency will be key and AMD should go for the crown as laptops are much more constrained to thermal limits. I don't think Nvidia could go for a crazy TDP like they do for desktop. But it's hard to know what's AMD's plan for this coming gen. Are they gonna go all out for laptop market share or are they just gonna be content with the thin and light gaming laptop niche that they are doing relatively well in.

Tomáš Musílek

Though I generally find AMD's price/performance more appealing, under these conditions I would consider power consumption first. I don't want my card running loud, hot and costly. If the difference would be under 30%, I would go with DLSS.

Clint Hoffman

I've been team Nvidia for a while now, but like cheer on AMD to get more competition. With this upcoming generation, I want a quiet card, modest pwr consumption, decent raytracing and at this point, AMD would totally have to drop the ball off a cliff for me not to buy one of their cards over a Nvidia overpriced, pwr sucking heat generating card. Target card for me will be the 4080 RDNA 3 equivalent....typically one step down from the top. Ti versions don't count.

Frobozz

Assuming roughly equivalent performance, it comes down to availability and wattage efficiency. For example, I was ATI/AMD only until Vega, then I bought a 1080ti SeaHawk because of availability issues from AMD. I didn’t regret it. Great card. Flawless software. I was going to buy a 3080 on launch day. Couldn’t buy it. That lag let AMD fire back with the 6900xt I ended up getting because of availability again. Love the card. Leaning AMD but if I can’t buy, I will fly (to the other team.)

QXE

Initially, RDNA2 seemed to have a pretty rough start and seemed to offer worse value vs most of the Ampere line-up. Through 2021 and 2022 however, RDNA2 has taken my vote with driver and feature updates. The value of both line-ups seems to only be comparable as of this year with prices finally normalizing with cards like the RX 6900 XTXH dropping to $800 and the RX 6700 being sold for $370. Ampere did see drops on the 3090 Ti, 3090, 3080 Ti, and 3080 however the price drops did not seem to affect mid-range and low-end cards with the 3060 and 3070 cards being sold for still inflated pricing. Ampere's main strength came from its robust feature set and driver support from day 1. Ampere also offers much better RT performance than RDNA2. Ampere's weakness came in the price/$, and the limited tweaking options (for someone like me anyways). RDNA2 has shown strong raster performance at all resolutions and quite frankly crushes my 3090 in almost every game I've tested. AMD's drivers have really improved over the last 2 years and I can certainly see the difference. The weakness with RDNA2 did come in the form of some buggy driver versions and high transients compared to the already insanely hungry Ampere parts. I think by the end of the generation AMD won this generation with new features, better performing drivers, and much better pricing than Ampere as of August 2022.

Sanidin

I generally pick AMD due to their open linux drivers and support of open standards. Nvidia has a lot of room to grow there, but that won't happen while Jensen is around.

PCDog

I’ve always bought Nvidia….aside from that Intel GPU I bought years ago…ahem, we won’t talk about that. 😅 Seriously though AMD is for the first time getting my attention. The big thing for me is that the performance is on par with Nvidia, and now the features (FSR 2.0) are close to Nvidia as well. Although ray tracing is behind Nvidia I don’t have any games that use ray tracing right now, so its not a concern for me. What’s pushing me to AMD is power consumption and price. AMD seems to have an advantage there, and it’s pulling me away from Nvidia. I also game on Linux, so any Windows driver issues are not of concern to me. The open source Mesa driver is excellent! So, if the cards are the same performance I’ll probably go AMD for better efficiency.

Sarcastro

I have owned 3 AMD GPU's since 2020 and all have been stable and good products for my money; a 5600xt a 6800 and now a 6800XT. None have let me down and the only crashes or stability issues I have experienced have been in CP 2077. Considering there were places to get under the map and back up or jump through the wire framing of buildings and I just assumed I was Beta testing until patch 1.5 early this year , I really don't consider stability issues that game AMD related. Who ever can give me the most from what I am willing to spend in rasterization and VRAM for now. RT isn't a factor at all for me until the frame rate hit is 20% or less in native rendering. I don't stream, I am not a content creator so the only suite of software I care about is that which lets me tweak for the performance I want in games and AMD has that in Adrenaline. Who ever offers a free, bitrchin' spatula gets my money, honey.

kjm015

I've always personally stuck with Nvidia GPUs for their driver stability, better gaming performance, and better encoding. That said, I feel like Nvidia really could have given their mid-range and high-end Ampere cards (RTX 3070 & 3080 SKUs) more VRAM. It seems like the 12GB frame buffer on my RTX 3080 Ti is starting to hit its limit for 4K gaming, and it would have been nice if I had the 16GB that AMD offers on their Navi 21 cards. If I was in the market to buy a card now, I probably would buy an RX 6900 XT over my RTX 3080 Ti. With Lovelace and Navi III, I would consider switching to AMD for my main PC if the 4K rasterization performance of the top model is around the same as an RTX 4090 with a lower power draw and at a lower price.

GamersUnite

Sup Tom, I have a GPU related question for you, along with the community. If you were in the market to purchase a graphics card from either brand, which benchmarks would be more appealing to see in the for sale listing? High FPS 1080p or more demanding lower FPS 4K? As a seller myself, Im curious as to what the people prefer. And yes, Im using your platform to increase my potential sales :)

Swiggles

I feel like the awe of Nvidia's gaming experience still catches people including me as an enthusiast specially. I have an rx6600 but I want that better ty performance. I want the less compromised experience of dlss. Everytime I see something amd does I see nothing but second best even tho it's not that simple. I am an enthusiast at heart but not in my wallet.

Ryzza5

G'day Tom. I sometimes feel hypocritical as I want others to support Radeon to keep competition alive (although I have next to no experience with their software/drivers/etc besides your comments). At the same time, I will likely continue to stick with Nvidia for CUDA (occasional video editing) and I wouldn't mind getting access to their RTX noise cancelling feature on my next card. One thing Nvidia needs to change is forcing me to sign into their GeForce Experience app each time I update drivers. It's bad enough I need to sign in at all, but at least allow me to have the credentials remembered as I only open it every few months to check for driver updates and then have to also open my password manager every time as well. Oh well, at least we don't have to restart Windows.

Eliab Agbavor

Hey tom, why do you think people still have a perception that amd graphics are bad for streaming and other productivity related stuff. Since I got my 6900xt. My experience in the beginning with productivity related apps were bad. But it has been almost 2 and a half years now. And drivers related to productivity has gotten way better. OBS has integrated B-frames for amd that makes streaming way better and on the same quality levels at rtx cards with NVENC. Especially with talking heads still making judgement based on old benchmarks. As the Short Circuit video released today based on Corsair new laptop vs the G14 showcased.With Alex's prejudice towards the amd laptop in productivity.

Stu

AMD added noise cancelling too, so you can check that off of the Nvidia pros list. CUDA is pervasive, and for professionals, I agree, unless openGL/CL support massively improves, AMD loses there.

Stu

I feel mixed on who's going to win gaming this round. I originally thought that the rumored massive infinity cache would give Radeon a huge latency advantage to feed the beast of higher shader count and frequency. Now, the wide memory bus looks nice for Radeon, but I don't know if the MCM penalty will be compensated for adequately. I was 95/5 Radeon before, now I'm just 60/40.

Ryzza5

Nice to know, thanks. I know when the nVidia one came out there were ludicrous demos of it cancelling vacuum cleaners, chainsaws, etc - I wonder how AMD compares. Perhaps it wasn't marketed as strongly or the influencers I follow didn't care for a follow up.

PenguinsloveAI

I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for NVIDIA bemoaning their current poor sales considering they just spent two years raking us over the coals. Personally I feel at least in the case of Nvidia, that they earned their current predicament. I will never believe they “tried” with all their might to funnel gpus to gamers and away from miners and have suspicions the “leaks” that enabled LHR cards to fully work were deliberately let out. I also find it hard to believe a company as large as Nvidia could not have applied pressure either directly or through the US government to force eBay to ban sales of products marked up over a certain percentage of MSRP, whatever that level may have been. Are their recent woes any comparison at all to the amount of money they have made over the previous years?

Wasmachineman_NL

"What features make you buy RADEON?" Windows 7 support Windows 7 support Windows 7 support Windows 7 support Did I mention Windows 7 support? Also, better raster performance than Ampere. Fuck raytracing.