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GAM404 - Psychiatry: An Industry of Death (Patreon)

Published:
2023-05-15 21:19:35
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

Featuring the inimitable Cara Santa Maria!

Comments

Jeb Dale

I just learned about the cgi movie "Trump vs. The Illuminati" where a clone of Trump who is immortal and has large hands fight aliens. It looks really bad and I hope Eli puts it on the list...

Jeb Dale

She knows what she did and Eli won't let her forget it

Nick Moore

If we are going to poke fun at L. Ron then everyone needs to look up the time he fully took over a magic/sex cult by out fucking the founder

John Kerstetter

Dead People Dentist bringing her expertise

General Contact Unit Problem Child

ok so as an autistic person this "documentary" is making me so uncomfortable. They keep bringing up real abuses of people like me by the medical establishment, but then extending that to a total condemnation of the entire field of trying to understand human psychology. like can you not make it seem like those things are inherently inseparable?

Detective Popcorn

The founder that wound up blowing himself up in his garage.

Kroll the Swolbold

Was wondering where Noah was, then I remembered Tears of the Kingdom came out. I am now ready for a Noah-less Maytreon

Another Craig

I wonder if the 'starvation jail' briefly mentioned was Linda Laura Hazzard's deadly quack sanitarium... it was the subject of the 'Starvation Heights' episode of this pretty obscure podcast, called Citation Needed?

Julie Wine&Reason

Most excellent! My psychotropic meds saved my life, and it's a fucking miracle that these pills exist!

Michael Duchek

I hate to disagree with Eli, but I'm going to say Raelians and Ramthans are stupider religions than Scientology. Maybe not by much...

My dog is more sentient than Claude

I went to caradid911.com and it redirected me to some book on Amazon called Pseudoscience in Therapy. Looks like a good book though.

Zomonitan

Just so y'all know, TCoS will absolutely transcribe every word of this once it's public, and I find it hilarious that that will be someone's job

V0ldek

I'd just like to mention that Eli has been a crucial influence in me overcoming my doubts and actually reaching out for psychiatric help, which, among other things, stopped my patterns of self-harm. Anyone who stops people from medication that so demonstrably makes people's life's better can get their face fucked by a volcano demon.

V0ldek

He actually was on the record, you can hear faint noises of the Switch controller in the background.

Grant Cosper

Did Eli just combine Charlotte's Web and Babe?

Markus D

NO, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS NUANCE IN THE WORLD OF L. RON.

Markus D

I missed the "up" in your comment initially and it didn't even seem inappropriate.

Markus D

It is literally impossible for twice as many Americans to be killed in psychiatric hospitals in 40 years as soldiers were killed in battles since 1776. Around 15-22 million people were killed in the First World War ALONE. To get numbers that AREN'T even double the total soldier deaths you'd have to run all the hospitals like literal Nazi death camps.

Anne of Beeves

The “chemical imbalance” trope may not be accurate, but it helped the public shed earlier views of the mentally illness as shameful and due to character flaws or demonic possession.

Karin Parker

Great show! Also, I bought the book and made left my review to make sure others know that Cara did 9-11.

Anne of Beeves

By the way, the CoS treatment for a “psychotic break” is to lock you into a room and prevent anyone from speaking to you until you shape the fuck up. Google “introspection rundown.”

Stormy Decisis

I believe Szasz is pronounced "Sozz". I was in grad school when we read one of Szasz's more famous papers, as part of a "history and systems" class like Cara talked about where you learn about the history of psychology and major schools of thought so you can put information in context, not because it's necessarily true. Anyways, the paper said that if a man claims to be Napoleon, we can only say he's crazy if we can prove he's not Napoleon so...checkmate? I remember thinking that was the stupidest fucking argument I had ever heard.

Markus D

Maybe Eli does it intentionally, but I think it's hilarious that he says "Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson" as "The Rock Duh-wayne Johnson".

Erin

So, this is a bit nitpicky, but BF Skinner never did experiments on his kids. The experiment in question, the baby in the box, was actually the device itself called an 'air crib'. It was a very fancy crib with climate control and raised up to avoid putting strain on the care taker's back.

Markus Nävergård

no Xenu, no volcano demons, no alien souls. I love that folks call Scientology insane and crazy once they hear their acctual belief system. That is exactly how crazy every religion sounds to an atheist.

Erica De Parsia

It was really comforting to hear all three of you discuss your struggles with mental illness, and subsequent success with prescribed medicine.

Stormy Decisis

Eli, I can't thank you enough for sharing your experiences with ECT. Every year, I tell my very surprised psych students that it's not haunted house torture, but rather extremely effective treatment, and every year they're fucking flabbergasted. My goal is to nudge them so that if they or a family member ever need it, they'll really consider it as an option, and personal testimonials are really persuasive. (I can, and do, show them piles and piles of evidence from randomized controlled trials, but when it comes to persuasion, there's nothing like a personal story.) So, I'm so glad it worked well for you, and I really appreciate your decision to share that with your listeners.

Stormy Decisis

This is a really exciting frontier of psychiatry, but just FYI, it's really in its infancy and, for the most part, the evidence isn't there yet. There are a few gene * drug interactions that are really well-established. Some people are fast or slow metabolizers of certain drugs and that can be tied to specific genes SOMETIMES, but it can also be tied to a ton of other factors. Maybe you drank too much as a teen and your liver isn't really top notch. Maybe you have IBS and you shit out pills before they're totally absorbed. Maybe you drink a lot of water and your urine is very dilute. Which is why actually assessing the rate at which the drug is metabolized is generally a better idea than testing for the genes for metabolic enzymes. I've looked around and I haven't found any research to show that people who take the particular drug recommended by the test do better than those who just take any drug in the same class. (This is for psychiatry - for oncology, there are definitely times when you check the genetics to decide exactly which drug to give and that leads to better outcomes.) I think those tests are mostly well-intentioned. I don't think they're 100% scams, but for the most part, their recommendations aren't really worth the cost. And, they can convince people that they absolutely have to take drug A, when drug B might be a better match for their symptoms, even if it's not the best match for their genes.

Michael Champion

As someone who has been researching ADHD and autism, it does seem that the US is over diagnosing kids with ADHD. This is due to your insurance system, which is limited in what the companies will do, as sometimes its just easier for them to give kids a general diagnosis that is treated with a pill. If you look at the killer of children in Western countries, the US is a big outlyer in so many categories, mainly due to your gun culture and you lack of sociised medicine.

Stormy Decisis

BTW, the relationship between SSRIs and suicide/homicide is actually pretty well explained by the existence of bipolar disorder. It's a little complicated, but it makes a lot of sense. The first fact you need to know is that depression makes a lot of people fatigued and listless. That sucks, but it's also protective against suicide because that takes effort. The second thing you need to know is that if you have a depressive episode and you've never had a mania, you might have unipolar depression (regular depression), but it might be the first episode in a bipolar illness. Bipolar disorder is highly, highly genetic, so you're more or less programmed to have a mania eventually, you just haven't yet. Bipolar depression and unipolar depression look pretty much the same, but they're very very different in terms of treatment. If you give someone with bipolar depression an antidepressant *when they're not on a mood stabilizer like lithium*, they run the risk of entering a mixed state with both manic and depressive features. In short, you still feel like shit, but now you've got a ton of energy. That temporarily puts you at increased risk for suicide, which is why good clinicians monitor people at the onset of treatment. This also explains why the increased risk is rare - bipolar disorder is much less common the unipolar depression - and why it mainly happens in children. If you're 35 and you are genetically programmed to have bipolar disorder, you've probably already had a manic episode, and if you present with a depressive episode, your psychiatrist will know not to treat you with an antidepressant alone. But, if you're 13, your depressive episode might be your first ever mood episode, so they can't be sure whether it's unipolar or bipolar depression. By the way, once the FDA put a black box warning on SSRIs stating that they can increase suicidality in children and adolescents, the youth suicide rate went up because a lot of parents got worried and took their kids off their meds!

Scott W. Davis

Okay, at around 94 mins, when Eli says "Sea-Orging you," it deserves a moment. Maybe it's because I used to live near all the Scientologists, but it was nicely executed.

Chuck Nilsen

HOW DID HEATH MISS YORKESTRA

LadyAJ

OMG! 😃👏 Kara is only the second person "that I know" who also has hypersomnia!! It sucks to have, but no one ever even knows what I'm talking about. I was diagnosed at the end of my 20's, and Provigil changed my life!! Like all those weird human quirks, it was really cool to hear that I share a rare, random quality with someone that I think highly of. 😋

LadyAJ

Also, I LOVED Braingames!!

Booman Shadow

My thought exactly! We have one here with 7 of the little monsters.

Eric Denton

Mental health help for children is a disaster. Therapists & psychiatrists don’t take insurance and a lot won’t work with children. You don’t get help until you have to hospitalize your child then the after care is a brand new disaster where many places are full and the waiting lists are long. Going through this all right now. Hoping mine can grow out of some of his problems and feel better before something terrible happens.

Jess

Lexy

Literally all of the Amazon reviews for Cara's book mention her doing 9/11

Chelsy Theriault

This episode went real deep. I loved the serious discussions between Eli and Cara. They did an amazing job tackling the hard issues and balancing that with humor. Thanks guys ❤️

Dustin Larmore

OK, I must be not smart. Where are the show notes, like the guy's funeral pictures.

Theodore Johnson

This is something my gf has a lot of interest in and posted the comment about and when she gets home from work I’ll hand my phone over for this convo to continue. She is way more science oriented than I am so I’m not going to tread on her expertise.

Jeaneene

Do yourself a favor and check out the reviews of Cara’s book. Go to caradid911.com. You will be redirected to the Amazon page for the book. 😂

Jeaneene

Also, buy Cara’s book if it is a subject that interests you.

Uriah Jackson

It's an intentionally bad movie, the kind that isn't actually much fun. Think something like Thankskilling but with bad CGI.

Uriah Jackson

In regards to Heath's Best Worst, that's intentional. Scientology doesn't "reveal" the Xenu/aliens killed with an H bomb in a volcano/bits of alien souls stick to people really out there stuff until someone has already sunk huge amounts of money into the church. They know people would react like it was bad sci-fi writing without the sunk cost fallacy helping them rationalize.

Off-label Botanist

I thought the robots were giving you a hand job and I didn't see what the problem was

101001101

That was a weird scene in Zero Dark Thirty.

Kristine VanRaalte

I'm listening to this for the first time two years after it posted (I don't see how I missed it) and I think it the most triggering movie you've done. My mother had mental illness my entire life. I think she had undiagnosed post-partum depression. Psychiatry was not all that far along at the time, and I feel like her particular treatment made her worse. I do not blame psychiatry. I blame the institutions that kept labeling mental illness as demonic possession. My mom literally thought she was the devil because her religious indoctrination made her interpret her mental illness as such. Ultimately she had a diagnosis of manic-depression and paranoid schizophrenia. I get so frustrated with people who expect human endeavors to be perfect while not being patient enough to allow it to be done correctly. They are giving away the fact that they don't know how the world works. Science has evolved to include things like ethics in experimentation. The studies this movie references were done before many of those ethics were adopted. Just like all aspects of science, that shit had to be figured out.