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So I know I said the next post would be a character profile, but this idea has been dominating my mind and I would love to hear feedback from you lovely supporters here. 

It seems in 99% of narratives out there are "good" vs "bad" groups/people/causes. You follow one and root for them to defeat the ______ you are told to hate. Even in something like A Song of Ice and Fire, which is praised for having everyone in a grey spectrum, none of the people who are on the lighter side of things follow evil beliefs or serve evil masters. The good people push back and come to the realization that they need to rebel. That is not realistic. Good people get caught up and fully invested with horrible ideologies all of the time.

I have been purposefully looking into stories where we the audience are presented the ideology of an evil group as someone who actually buys into that ideology would be. No framing from the author that, "THIS BAD! HATE THIS!" Instead put the reader in the shoes of your average person. See the propaganda as your average person would. Frame it to the reader as convincingly as possible. Maybe, do it so convincingly, some readers actually start rooting from the evil side.  

A question emerges with this objective right away. How can I get readers to back something like an imperial regime that roles over other nations and dominates them? I find the answer to be really simple, present the main characters in the same light as a Samwise, or Kaladin. Just because someone is on a side you disagree with, that does not mean you cannot connect with them. If you flip just a couple character switches very carefully, and reframe how this bad side is thrown at the reader, maybe I can make everyone who reads want the empires objectives to come true. 

For example, if the empire wins this battle over this resisting group, then maybe the protagonist can be reunited with a love interest we have spent a lot of time developing. If all the reader has been exposed to is this love story, and not the plight of the resistance, why would they care for the resistance at all? We all want to see love interests come together right? 

(This is purely an example and not reflective of any actual plot points I have written.)

Now forget everything talked about before here, and get ready to put yourself into a ridiculous scenario. 

We all know what lawful evil is, correct? The prime example everyone looks to is The Empire from Star Wars. It is orderly, has codes it enforces galaxy wide. While its ends are evil, the empire as a whole does follow lawful codes. 

Now are you familiar with natural evil? This is an evil that kills, mutilates, destroys, etc etc, because it is simply the creature's nature. Think the alien from Alien. You cannot entirely blame the alien for killing everyone, it is just doing what is in its nature. Bloody terrifying, but blameless. 

Even though that alien is blameless for its own evil, you would not want to be in the same room with it. In fact, if I gave you the option of either being locked in a small room with five stormtroopers, or an alien from Alien, I would assume you would choose the stormtroopers every single time. 

This is because while the empire is completely to blame for its own evil, and the alien is not, the empire can be reasoned with and the stormtroopers can be communicated with. The xenomorph would simply hunt you. 

That is what has been dominating my brain while writing. I hope you all enjoy another bunch of random thoughts. Let me know what this makes you think. Do you disagree? 

Comments

Apheliotrophic

Love this concept. As someone who used to buy into that sort of thing, and really struggled with accepting it for what it was, I would love to see this issue covered more in fantasy. Can’t wait!!

Ticoyote

Well, the fact that there is good people following basically all types of ideologies, is what, as far as I am concerned, makes ideologies live as much as they do. "I Know Bryan, he is a good guy, I guess that "whatchamacalit" ideology ain't bad now! Right?".....

Ryan Ratchford

Sounds really interesting & I’ve hardly ever seen it properly explored before. A good case where it has been done though is Netflix’s The Dragon Prince (made by the people who made the Last Airbender). One of the characters uses Dark Magic (which kills living things-usually insets- to cast magic) & although all the non-human races & the audience’s intuition makes us feel like this is a really evil and dark magic, the way she describes her thoughts on it make it seem like apart of the way of the world & sees nothing wrong with it (almost like meat eating-since humans aren’t born with image magic they need to take it from other things- in the world of magic you need it to prosper)

Dylan Smith

Interesting concept, I love the idea. I’ve seen characters do bad things for religious purposes like Hrathen in Elantris and some characters do bad things because it is their cultural tradition like Victorian in a song of ice and fire. I think it would be interesting to be able to write a convincing enough “evil” character or a character in an evil place that we would support for reasons that we might relate to as a reader. Lots of ways to go at it. Keep up the good work :)

Mac

There's a weird book I read once that sorta touched on this concept but only very briefly... this guy basically fell for the exact ploy you described. The group was "evil" but not overtly so, they were able to successfully paint the thing they opposed as evil, and they got him to betray his country because he was an oppressed person and because he honestly believed he was doing good by advancing their works. But then, like 20 pages after he was first introduced, he sees proof that they're actually murderous and evil so that's over.

Nolan green (NoIIan on discord)

as far as evil with no redeemable anything I would suggest "William hamleigh" from pillars of the earth by ken follett (as ken follett said "i like to create characters with both good and evil, but i thought why not create a truly evil character everyone really loves to hate" or even Joffrey Baratheon in the same respect.

Nolan green (NoIIan on discord)

i really like grey characters but sometimes a counterpoint evil to a very obvious and hard trying good guy can really tug emotions

Nolan green (NoIIan on discord)

i'm trying to think of any novels where I actively rooted for the "good guy" who turned out to be just a manipulative bad guy...unique Idea. and where you didn't see it as a cliche , I know I've read some

Eduardo Filippi

Sorry for the late reply, but just wanted to say that whilst this kind of narrative is rare in fiction, its actually very very common in history books, there are plenty of books that try to immerse the reader into the mindset of an average person living through very very nasty cultures (Like Nazi Germany), If you are not all that into picking a thick history book you can also listen to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History, he has his faults, but the one thing he does exceedingly well is bringing you into those horrible situations and pointing out the human elements

KJ Reading

Now you have me laughing like a maniac too because these are things I have thought about so much for my own story. It is so exciting nerve wrecking to figure out a way to balance things out so the reader will get invested in what you want them to be, right? I like your thoughts on this and I agree the author better find a way to have me invested on the topics I'm suppossed to care about or I won't care about what happens in the story.