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S7E30: Algorithm Hellhole with Alex Kazemi (Patreon)

Published:
2023-09-12 01:24:03
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Novelist Alex Kazemi and Bret Easton Ellis discuss keeping the internet from contaminating your fiction, losing interest in the boring culture war and ruffling feathers with Marilyn Manson. Part 1 of 2. 

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Comments

Seneca Garcia

Just formally speaking - the first half of Glamorama seems unmatched in contemporary literature, in terms of such a relentless, finely chiseled, and rhythmic barrage of jokes. There’s no essential craft or yarn spinning and poetic flourishes of invention in autofiction or autofiction adjacent fiction.

Artemis Fedorchuk

I hope to God I don’t become the shell of a person that Alex Kazemi is when I eventually hit my twenties. Incredibly hard listen, he needs a lozenge.

Steve

Slow start but the guy grew on me. There was no way the show could maintain the extremely high level of the Zanes and Asahina episodes. Sometimes good is good enough.

Keith campbell
>>117341260

I wonder why it’s the least talked about BEE book, something he seems a bit bitter about at times. Perhaps the most self congratulatory “I’m famous” feel.

Keith campbell

Bonus Canadian content - did Vancouver kid really compare Bret to Narduwar ?

PETER GREER

Probably my least enjoyed episode in a while unfortunately

Jorge Espinha

Glamorama is my BEE Everest. I read most of the books but Glamorama I tried three times and moved to other books. Recently I bought the paperback (I have the silver hard cover) to make it easier to read. Let’s see if the 4th is the charm.

Jorge Espinha

Samantha was the woman I wanted to fuck. Other than that, I had no interest in sex and the city. I hated the other female characters with passion. Doesn’t BEE get annoyed with the way gay men were portrayed? The magical flamboyant gay man? I’m not gay and I find it idiotic.

richard owain roberts

am going to listen on my run. will say more later, after my run.

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117385298

Also, I think these “generational traitor” millennials that think they’re an honorary Gen Xer are even more insufferable than the swarths of incredibly annoying Hogwarts House millennials that they think themselves so far above. Honestly, Kazemi sounds like an absolute nightmare—he spent his entire segment blathering like a little fanboy, making a truly embarrassing (and earnest) attempt to name drop as auspiciously as possible to make himself seem more culturally relevant than he actually is… I get it dude, you’re buddies with Bret Easton Ellis and you ate dinner at the Polo Lounge at the Beverly Hills Hotel and you texted BEE about The Idol and you think you’re the next great provocateur (you’re not). As a member of Gen Z (born in late 2005), the disconnect in both Bret and Alex’s perceptions of Gen Zers who aren’t millennial cusps is laughable. Kazemi saying with seeming sincerity that the rise in popularity of Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson among Zoomer young adults, as well as the “anti-woke” use of “retard” and “faggot” among frat boys is a sign that the kids are alright is… laughable at best, and alarming at worst. The kids are not alright, and the kids will probably never be alright. I maintain my position that this entire podcast just reads as that one still from The Simpsons featuring Grampa Simpson, “Old Man Yells At Cloud.” I have a month left of this premium membership, so I’ll be damned if I don’t make good use of it, but holy hell, Los Angeles is truly a godless place. Never meet your heroes, folks (or listen to their podcasts, apparently…), and I’m eternally grateful that a majority of my other favourite authors are pushing up daisies right now.

Casey

Is this the first mention of Cum Town on the podcast? Made me laugh to hear it.

sasha
>>117425076

I’m gay and i find the way gay men are portrayed on sex and the city to be lightheartedly glib in the same way women are portrayed. Carrie’s portrayed as a BPD nutcase, miranda as a nag, charlotte as naive, and samantha as a whore. Everyone’s reduced to stereotypes and their base impulses.

Happyhead

This dude DOES have a social media account. He's on Reddit. He was on there in the Redscare Forum hyping himself up and bragging how he has regular dinners with Bret Easton Ellis. He deleted his account when people started making fun of him mercilessly but I bet he has a burner

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117453294

Bret Easton Ellis is to him what Ryan Gosling in Bladerunner 2049 is to fifteen year old boys who haven’t had their first kiss.

Jorge Espinha
>>117424992

I don’t know. I read infinite jest cover to cover so I have no explanation. It wasn’t the length. American psycho I’ve read it twice. And apparently I missed the big picture twice.

Happyhead
>>117453294

Bro got me wanting to kill my subscription to this shit. How can someone as sublimely talented as BEE actually fall for this cultural scammer? Must be getting old

Nick

Once he started uptalking, I turned it off.

Constantine

Worst episode in a while. It’s the guest not Bret

Mo Ghayour

He claims to be a millennial but fails to state an understanding of male masculinity of the early-years of the generation leading up to 1999 or the effects towards the arch of millennial generations. He gave himself away with his answer on why Gen Z hates millennials…I am curious about the book but might have to make some art soon.

N.M. Janice.

This guy gives me weird vibes.

Alex Waller
>>117453294

This podcast overall has gotten way more performative since the pandemic. Would be nice just to get back some movie reviews and stop with the disingenuous pearl clutching and by now way overdone nostalgia

Patrick

I liked the 1999 Glamorama talk. Remember seeing him in NYC then. It’s still a vibe.

sasha
>>117469868

Agreed, I remember seeing him on tumblr way back when and he’s always struck a chord in a bad way.

sasha
>>117469422

Gen Z is too undeveloped for anyone to be talking so sweepingly about “why we hate” X or Y or Z group, literally at the moment Gen Z hates millennials because they were our naggy babysitters or older cousins who were too into Buzzfeed or Shane Dawson and we’re still pissy about it, not because of any real cultural/generational divides. That’s what happens when every generation is more infantilized and oversheltered than the last i guess

Patrick
>>117424992

I have read Glamorama 55ish times. I read it twice in a week the week it came out. Has always been my absolute fav.

Louis Norton
>>117385298

I really enjoyed reading your complicated reaction to the podcast, I’m 24 myself but I do relate on some level about tired obsession with Gen Z. I think you should keep listening and keep having these complicated feelings towards Ellis, it will only arm you in the discourse with boomers and there’s a lot of good to gain from the podcast

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117385298

As someone still very new to this whole cultural shim sham, this entire sphere is incredibly alien and foreign to me. Considering I was ten years old when Trump was elected (all of my classmates, middle class public Catholic school kids in Toronto, followed the election extensively, especially myself… I frequently got into fights with a kid who probably also had autism and was a major Stephen Crowder/Prager U fanboy), and as a kid with somewhat metered internet access, I’m just mind boggled by how deep this rabbit hole goes. My mother had (has?) a fairly prominent social media presence, since her side hustle was a mommy travel blog when I was growing up, and even though I was not allowed social media as a child, I was fairly online. Of course, when I was a child that mostly meant watching Minecraft YouTube videos and scary Five Nights at Freddy’s fan theories, but I absorbed a lot of the other stuff. I also was a very autistic kid who didn’t make and keep friends easily, so I spent a lot of time off in my own head… which prompted an interest in writing and storytelling initially. I became a fairly heated “SJW” in later middle school, even though my sole political discourse and literature at the time consisted of Hillary Clinton’s memoir (which I actually brought to school… in seventh grade… thus earning me the unfortunate nickname) and whatever feminist Tumblr screenshots had been uploaded to Pinterest. This is all just… bizarre to listen to, I almost feel as though I’m intruding on some kind of big grown up conversation. The pandemic destroyed most of Gen Z and Gen Alpha in ways I can’t even begin to think about, and just… it’s brutal out there, man. One of my fondest memories of the last four years is when me and a bunch of girls in my tenth grade math class spent a four hour long math exam on a FaceTime call giving sharing answers, listening to Lana Del Rey, and making jokes about one girl’s brutal crush on Timothee Chalamet. It’s also so bizarre hearing how nonchalant BEE and most of his guests are in regards to finances… money is no object, not a consideration… god forbid authors from non wealthy upbringings consider how lucrative a pursuit is… I really don’t know how to feel about all of this. I still want to write, I still want to try to etch out some kind of niche for myself in order to avoid corporate hell, but there’s a modicum of suicidal ideation that lives inside pretty much every person I’ve ever spoken to. We all know we won’t own homes and will probably end up in careers we hate with made up job titles… until then, working minimum wage jobs that are so boring and tedious they induce schizophrenic fits… the kids are very much not alright. Also, if I have to listen to one more fucking vocal fry, narcissist, self exempting millennial complain about the “woke agenda” on this goddamn podcast, I’m gonna blow a gasket. There are a lot of things I’m ashamed of and embarrassed by, but my fat ass crush on Dasha Nekrasova that lasted for half a year is well up there.

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117385298

I fully intend to keep my subscription, honestly it’s great fodder for runs because it makes me so mad that I want my run to be over so I can turn it off. I’ve only read two of Ellis’s books—American Psycho when I was fifteen, The Rules of Attraction earlier this year (I stole it from a little free library), but I own a few others I plan to read soon. I do think it’s good food for thought, though, even though the premium subscription to listen to the old episodes (especially the one with Moshfegh that I’ve yet to listen to) costs roughly two and a half hours of my minimum wage labour, I think it’s a good investment. I don’t know. Maybe this will make me a better writer, culture commentary issuer… yadda yadda yadda, but it’s refreshing to hear disconnected, bubbled, wealthy people so freely discuss what are in my opinion the most delusional and insane takes that I have ever heard in my life. Or maybe it’ll make my therapist want to up my dosage of fluoxetine. Or maybe I’ll start the sub stack blog that I’ve been meaning to start for ages but haven’t got around to, or finish a piece of writing in full… or maybe I’ll just reread the first Hunger Games novel again while processing my impending adulthood. On va voir.

OSOS
>>117424992

Have also had a hard time making my way through it, as someone younger I think maybe the sub genre of 90s culture depicted in Glamorama not being as aestheticized today in a way it’s recognizable and understandable if you hadn’t lived through it, makes it harder to enjoy the same way the 80s set books are. That culture is much more recognizable and understandable to me bc it’s depicted in so much media now. This is probably not the same problem you have but just throwing it out there Not trying to say I need to fully understand the setting a book is in to enjoy it. But so much of what is enjoyable in Ellis’s books are the cultural touch points and references and satire, this one falls short for me due to my ignorance.

BrienPiechos
>>117385298

Oh my sweet summer child. I was prepared to hate listen to this episode having run afoul Alex in the past. And if you think he was annoying here please go find his appearance on New Write. You have not dipped a toe in how much you can learn to hate him.

BrienPiechos

If you hated Alex and want more Alex content to really, really hate I recommend his appearance on the New Write podcast. Few things in recent memory have stuck with me in such a negative way.

Nikki Ferrari

Oh my God the anonymous millennial from previous podcast has been revealed as this dude. His rants Bret read on the MTV movie awards a few years ago were insufferable.

Nikki Ferrari
>>117425076

Jorge, newsflash. Sex & The City isn’t for you. It is for women and gay men. Not that your opinion isn’t valid it’s totally fine but it’s also stupid. Sorry everything in this life isn’t made for precious little you.

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117385298

Will have to listen… though I cannot promise that I won’t be institutionalized halfway through it.

Nick @

God damn it I hate this kid. His live is so cool. I was hoping no one was eating in this industry

Jorge Espinha
>>117425076

Nikki. Some of us have wives and girlfriends and have to watch stuff with them. The so called chick flicks . Personally I love “steel magnolias “ which is a chick flick on steroids. I don’t understand your attitude. We don’t agree on everything in this forum. Another example: I hated “catcher in the rye” I never read any more books of the author. Was the book meant for New Yorkers? Short Jewish men? Post menopausal tennis players? I don’t know. I read it and I have an opinion. You don’t have to agree with me.

Jorge Espinha
>>117385298

Wow ! You must be very young. I’m 50 and I get annoyed with the talk about “gen xers are the greatest generation” . We are the parents of the millennials and we were the first helicopter parents. Honestly taking in consideration our average poor parental skills we should just shut up.

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117493840

When he started talking about his magical awakening with Marilyn Manson I felt homicidal, so I had to turn it off😒😒😒

BrienPiechos
>>117493840

The Mike Ma section.... I just don't know how to convey my irritation. The repetition of vague secret nonsense. "There are things that must happen before I can speak with Mike again." What? Like planets aligning? Some fucking prophecy come to pass? His self importance is breathtaking.

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117385298

My parents are both in their early fifties, and that checks out. Both my mother and father were and are SUPER overprotective of me and my younger brother. I grant them some leeway in that regard, since I know it was out of love and that they wanted to give us a stable, loving childhood, one they themselves did not receive, but I think they also damned me by trying to shield me from the whims of the world. I was bullied as a child, though, and grappling with then undiagnosed autism made me feel strange and ostracized from my peers. The whole “gifted child” narrative also ranked my mental health… being told I was so special and unique and brimming with potential at an early age made my expectations for myself skyrocket and only perpetuated my sense of loneliness, failure, and underachievement.

Jorge Espinha
>>117385298

Being a parent is complicated. I have three boys. And I feel anxious regarding their safety. However I have to give them some slack otherwise they will not grow up. Not that they ask for it, they seem to be quite happy spending their days in front of screens which upsets me. I see you had some pretty steep mountains to climb . If you are here it means you have imagination and you are different in a good way. And you sound very mature.

Ashley

Ok I’m genuinely confused…are people hating on gen Z or millennials? I’m an older millennial with a gen X sibling and even older boomer parents in their 70s…I never understood why Bret thinks all millennials are whiney crying babies. I grew up reading and watching most of the movies Bret always mentions were on the “z channel”. Everyone of my friends loved going to movies growing up and we weren’t totally subsumed by social media because when it came around (MySpace, Facebook) we were already in college and it hadn’t progressed to the craziness it is now. I think there is a space where some older millennials exist in that grew up with analog media and saw the rise of social media to where it is now but don’t fully participate in it like the younger gen Z kids do. I’m not sure fully what my point is…I guess I just think not all of us are insufferable twats! (But maybe it’s super millennial of me to even feel defensive 😂)

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117385298

I appreciate it man, best of luck with your kids. Screen addiction is such a prominent vice among my peers (something I myself can be guilty of), but I’ve been taking small steps back in an effort to work on myself. I hope to be able to continue to make art and explore my options, maybe securing some scholarships to schools in the States (that I cannot realistically even fathom affording, but whatever, sometimes pipe dreams are all that keep me going), study Lit, maybe publish a novel… maybe, I don’t know.

Happyhead
>>117493840

I would rather cut out my own tongue than ever hear Alex speak ever again

Jorge Espinha
>>117385298

If you can get hold of an European passport (some Americans can) you can try study almost for free in Europe.

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117385298

Would love to, but I’m Canadian, which complicates things in terms of US admissions where financial need is a factor, as well as internationally. As much as I dream of attending Dartmouth or Pomona, both are such wild financial impossibilities that I’ve pretty much resigned myself to the Canadian schools that are far more affordable, whilst maybe being less prestigious.

sasha
>>117385298

Artemis, have you considered applying to any US schools that might not have brand name appeal but still will get you into the states & are more likely to offer scholarships that will let you get over here? Speaking anecdotally, you’d probably want to avoid the huge culture war going on in Florida right now but every Florida university is wildly generous with international scholarships because they know it’s the only way to get people over here. I’m sure that’s the case too for schools in other semi-destination states.

sasha
>>117385298

Jorge, you’re my father’s age and sound exactly like him (in a good way LOL). I feel bad for gen X parents because i feel theyre kind of damned if they do damned if they don’t specifically because of how stratified and impossible the world is for their children but you sound like your heart is in the right place which is more credit than I can give most of my parents’ friends WRT their children

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117385298

For sure something I should look into… not super keen on Florida, but I’m sure it’d be worth my while to shop around. I loathe hot weather, and it’s perhaps my sheepish nostalgia for my Dark Academia obsessed middle school self that yearns for somewhere in New England, but hey, if I can graduate debt free and have a decently academic environment not riddled with ugly architecture and suburban sprawl, I’ll take what I can get.

Jonathan Davis

Getting tired of people increasingly identifying themselves by their “generation.”

Alex Waller
>>117522750

You’re on point, I’m a young millennial and we were very politically incorrect, played contact sports, saw dramas at the movies. The generational talk on this pod is dumb. There’s plenty of sensitive gen xers who love the MCU

N.M. Janice.
>>117522750

As a 35 year old, I definitely relate to this. I’ve been listening to BEE from the beginning, and I have always agreed with his views on millennials and his social critiques, but I never felt offended or that I was part of it. Older millennials are really the last generation that did grow up in a still mostly analog world. We even grew up at the end of the time when Hollywood was still making mid budget movies for adults. Most of my friends were all big readers and we spent a lot of time at the video stores and book stores. All the culture war, social media “woke” SJW stuff didn’t really start until we were already becoming adults. Not that a lot of them didn’t fall into it, like a lot of people did. I think you can make a distinction between older millennials and younger millennials. They seem to have grown up with different experiences.

Ashley
>>117522750

And same! We grew up playing outside mostly, and my parents may have wanted to know vaguely where I was going but I had a lot of freedom to roam on my own with friends as well. I think the thing with generations is lots of sentiments from the previous ones carry over into the next, so it’s not all one way for each generation. Which I think Bret can be somewhat dismissive of at times.

Jorge Espinha
>>117385298

As a Canadian, don't you have a special status in the UK? I know it's a long way from home...

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117385298

Tragically, no, at least not since good old Pierre severed our ties to the mainland back in the eighties. We’re still commonwealth, so it’s a little easier, but still very much a hassle. I have a decent crop of Canadian schools that have some renown—University of Toronto and McGill—for example, but I’d love to be able to study abroad without my parents having to sell their house, haha. Alas, a girl can dream.

Jack

Bieber guest next week?

Billy Schafer
>>117522750

Thank you, Ashley and N.M. Janice! I'm 41 and this has been my war cry in the comments section since the beginning. Bret has yet to acknowledge the difference between older Millennials born in the late 70s - early 80s and the kids born sometime after the mid - late 80s. My adolescence was in the mid-late 90s when Gen-X led youth culture in a world that was mostly analogue. Glossy mags, cassette tapes, laserdiscs, CDs, and hardcover books were king. The Internet was a curious novelty. Hell, I grew up in a house with a rotary phone for the first twelve years of my life! Oh, and if we read a book or saw a movie where characters used racial slurs, especially in Scorsese and Tarantino films, we shrugged it off, realizing it was an honest depiction of the characters' moral ambiguities. We did not meltdown into a conniption fit! Late 70s and early 80s babies have one foot in Gen X and the other in Y, and the weight leans heavier on the X foot. I will die on that hill!

Alex Waller
>>117522750

I'm not really seeing a meaningful distinction between early and late millennials. I'm 30 and we all freakin' loved The Departed that came out when we were in junior high. We loved Tarantino and Eastwood, etc. We saw Gran Torino opening night. We had physical media, its not until really recently that everything went super digital. All of this stuff about how we were super offended at everything and had meltdowns is simply not true, like at all. Again, we were super politically incorrect, like super indulgently politically incorrect. Our parents gave us freedom and weren't hovering over us all of the time and let us take risks. Again, this is all just BS that is perpetuated on the internet and that Bret loves to repeat because every generation loves to mock the younger generation about what wimps they are. I know Bret claims he doesn't live in a bubble but he most definitely does. He may know people who vote on both sides of the political aisle but he doesn't know people who aren't wealthy coastal cosmopolitan professionals who he has these comically outlandish dinner conversations with.

Ashley
>>117522750

Billy, I really agree. There’s definitely a distinction between the two. I also grew up with a rotary phone, record player, tape recorder, typewriter, we had a full Encyclopedia set, all my baby photos look late 70’s…there really is a change from the beginning of a decade to it’s end.

Matthew Pegas

Great episode. Enjoyed the conversation and hearing Bret's take on the novel. Looking forward to part 2.

Alex Bielovich

Not really understanding all the hate. Standards set by this pod sure are high.

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117385298

Aren’t you the dude who wrote that one book that the Pumpkins frontman liked? I can assure you, my shit is mostly together. Lamenting not being able to afford a college of great prestige after years of Zoom school is a quintessential Gen Z experience. As for my reaction to the pod, I think it also tracks that I’m not gonna be super keen on a generational divide obsessed geriatric ragging on generations since his so called “golden years”, and a sycophantic vocal fry asskisser who seems to know an awful lot about the social media landscape he supposedly does not go near.

James__

There’s two parts? Jesus. Why did he giggle so much?

Alex Waller
>>117385298

Lol, I think it’s hilarious when Bret goes on and on about these parties he once had and how it was like a cinematic masterpiece playing before his eyes when in reality it was just some neighborhood social event

Artemis Fedorchuk
>>117385298

Acting like it was a Napoleonic gala or debutante ball when in reality it was some place trendy with yuppies with ample cocaine for attendees… yeesh.

Justin
>>117582966

Seems to be a lot of lamenting when younger guests are on.

Happyhead

Petition to cancel Part Two

NiceNeverKnowingU
>>117628033

What? Part 1 of this Interview was Fantastic! I'm a millennial who absolutely despises millennial "culture" and resonate completely with the Gen Xers who truly shaped the culture of the 90s and early 00s. Therefore listening to this interview was pure bliss for me, honestly. I'm in a few Reddit communities and other Patreons and it seems like people are in a way starting to "get off" on hating literally everything no matter what! I too hate most things produced by the culture of today, but Part 2 of this interview should be cancelled? Really? Why? What do you think was so God awful about this interview? I seriously don't get it!

Ashley
>>117628033

Well for me it’s like what another person mentioned above, the guy is too much of fan boy to really get to anything interesting with Bret. He seems more interested in proving that he & Bret have some kind of close relationship. I think if you listen to this and have been a long time listener of the more substantial guests that have been on you can tell a huge difference.

Elizabeth

Bret is a masterful interviewer and these episodes with Alex were just fun to listen to in that fly on the wall…dinner conversation type of way. Nothing earth shattering…bubble gum for the brain

Edward Alley

This guest was insufferable. Didn’t dare listen to part two.