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Season 3, Ep 7 (Patreon)

Published:
2021-12-09 16:45:02
Edited:
2023-07-01 15:36:27
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

umm so, i feel like so much happened! 😳 

*side note*

this was the weirdest episode for the show's audio, the volume seems to change by the second lol. i did my best to fix it as i was editing but definitely would have missed some parts so if it goes from quiet to loud real quick blame them. :)

Files

Buffy Season 3, Ep 7 - Revelations

Vidyard video

Comments

Alexis

I love how chaotic this thumbnail has become

Jessica Roth

And now, one of my favorites of the season. Unlike last week, when new writer Jane Espenson couldn't even get Giles's taste in music correct (never mind either his or Joyce's backstory), here we see that new writer Doug Petrie has done ALL of his necessary research. The argument is almost a continuation of the one in 2.21. And I haven't only seen the final shooting script of this; there was an earlier draft floating around at one point. Much the same (notable differences were Faith living in an actual trailer and Buffy and Xander not settling things so easily at the end), so this isn't a case of Joss saving the script with a late rewrite…Doug is on his game from the off. Good, we can use more solid episodes. Let's see if Darcie agrees…

Jessica Roth

Angel IS still under the same old curse; Jenny found the original spell ("The Ritual of Restoration") and even though "the surviving text is gibberish" (as she discussed with the storekeeper in "Passion"), she made a computer program to translate it. And so Willow does the same spell in "Becoming Part 2" that the Elder Woman did in Part 1. (That's part of the reason it's repeated.) And so, just as the Gloating Gy—er, Revengful Romany told Angel in 2.21, Angel DOES remember everything he did, it just takes a couple of minutes for the memories to come back. He remembers making Buffy cry, he remembers killing Jenny, he remembers torturing Giles. He feels bad, but he remembers. Who knows, maybe he'll be a good boy for another 100 years, just as he was this past time. And then he'll achieve peace and contentment…and we'll be right back where we were in "Innocence", with Buffy leaving the mess for some *future* Slayer to clean up. Ugh. JMO.

Melissa

First of all, love the festiveness of your room! Merry and Happy season! You mentioning what the Mayor could be, an alien, makes me remember that you still owe (me) your reaction for Pilot Says - OG Roswell. Yes, I am a sucker for that show and I was probably a bigger fan of that at the time than Buffy. But I loved both. A "slayer union" would be awesome. Probably not practical though since you're dealing with matters of life and death. Boo. I was excited for you to watch this because there was the friends conflict that you were waiting to see. Feels like you've gotten a lot of what you wanted this season. Faith being shut out of the meeting with Buffy, Giles, and the gang is leading her to feel alone and isolated, the last scene was a great way of showing that. Being deceived and trusting her new "watcher" didn't help. I love that we are getting character development for her.

R J Walker (FumblesMcStupid)

I really like this one, although I know it's not a lot of people's favourites, although I have a few nit picks with it. First off, I think Giles saw Willow and Xander too, he's often a bit short with Xander but he seemed a bit angry with Willow here, or at least his replies of 'I looked' and 'I think we're finished here' didn't seem like his normal interactions with Willow. Admittedly he's under a lot of strain because of new watcher lady but I think perhaps he has good peripheral vision :/ Also, some people criticise him for not checking that she was a real watcher but tbh the council told him in 3x03 that he was to look after Faith until a new watcher is assigned so he's been expecting a watcher to turn up for a few weeks now. Plus, she was a watcher so she knows how to act believably. AND she puts him on the back foot immediately by being such a wonderful bitch about everything lol I love the tea boiling in the background as Giles gets more and more angry at her and the subtle 'it's the little things' dig as she pulls a TEABAG ON A STRING out of her cup. Giles, you should be ASHAMED of yourself :D Also, I understand everybody from every angle BUT it doesn't change the fact that Buffy 'I had no choice' Summers DID have a choice. I hate that she says that. She absolutely chose not to tell anybody. For all she knew Angel could have come back different. It might be easier or more difficult for him to lose his soul after 100's of years in hell. Did they even check that the portal he fell through is closed?! Could more things come through? The ONLY person who could be remotely useful in answering these questions and IMO has a right to know, is Giles. Plus, Giles now knows she's been lying since 3x04, the 'I dreamed he came back' lie. I've got to admit, I am completely on his side in this one. Don't get me wrong, I understand why she didn't WANT to tell him, but she should have and she shouldn't say 'she had no choice'. And if she was genuinely thinking he'd be so angry he'd go off and try to kill Angel then move him somewhere Giles doesn't know about and then tell him. That scene is so brutal. Like when your dad say's 'I'm not angry, I'm disappointed' lol Little nitpicks. Timing. Are they saying the ambulance got there, bandaged Giles and got him on the stretcher in 10 minutes? Wow, I wanna live in Sunnydale...no, maybe not but ykwim. But that's hard to fix because Buffy has to realistically catch up with Faith. But it would have been easy to fix the next one. Giles: "use.....living flame....and Post...." passes out. At least he would have tried and it would be natural for none of them to think he meant "she did this". Also, Willow should have had no face left after being hit with that glove!! But apart from that I like this one a lot. I know a lot of people argue about who was wrong and who was right but I think the important thing is, it's out now, things were said, maybe we can move on now.

ghostofdurruti

This is definitely a very strong episode that pushes the plot forward, develops the relationships between the characters in some unexpected ways, and features a very entertaining villain in Mrs. Gwendolyn Post. My only complaint is that Giles not checking Mrs. Post’s credentials stretches credulity a bit—her condescending attitude must have really thrown him off his game! I think it can sort of be explained away if one assumes that he either knew her in passing or at least knew of her from when they were both still in England, and just missed the memo about her turn to the proverbial dark side. It’s sad to see Buffy and Faith’s relationship damaged like this. Faith certainly leapt to conclusions initially (driven by a mix of the resentment Mrs. Post planted in her head about being left out of the “secret meeting” and her own anger about Buffy lying about Angel), but once she arrived at the mansion and saw Angel looming threateningly over Mrs. Post, it’s hard to blame her for her actions. Her first watcher was murdered by a vampire, after all—she probably felt like history was repeating itself. Well, at least we got a really good fight scene out of it… and I love (but also hate but also love haha) that tense, uneasy scene between her and Buffy that ends the episode. Hopefully this is just a temporary setback and they’ll eventually be able to patch things up. Speaking of tense, uneasy scenes, that “intervention” scene in the library… hoo boy. I think my favorite thing about it is, as you said, everyone has a point. Buffy’s actions, “however ill-advised, can be understood.” When Angel first returned from Hell, he was a wreck—in no state to be seen by anyone, really—and Buffy’s relationship with her friends was still fragile after their last big fight in “Dead Man’s Party.” It makes sense that she would want to wait for him to recover before revealing him to them. But on the other hand… one, with each episode that has passed, that rationale has become weaker as Angel has become more and more “himself.” Two, it’s questionable whether Buffy *really* intended to ever tell them. And three, regardless of all of that, Giles, at the very least, needed to know. Even Xander has a point. Sure, Angel’s good now, and knowing what they know about the curse, I don’t think there’s any serious risk of Buffy and Angel “getting pelvic” as he crudely puts it. But the thing about the curse (which is still in place, as others have pointed out) is that even without that catalyst, it could still trigger. All it would take is for Angel to experience one moment of contentment, “one moment where the soul we restored no longer plagues his thoughts” as Jenny’s uncle phrased it, and Angelus would return. He’s a ticking time bomb. The only way for him to continue to live safely is for him to deliberately make himself miserable… and what kind of life is that? Harsh as it sounds, there’s a strong case to be made that the best thing to do—both for Angel himself, and for the world at large—would be to put him out of his misery. Of course Buffy wouldn’t see it that way, both because a part of her still loves him and because she’s just not the kind of character to engage in that sort of cold moral calculation (at least when her hand isn't forced by, say, the presence of a demon that will immediately suck the whole world into hell if she doesn't). I guess time will tell whether her decision to *not* do so ends up being the right one or not. All in all, like I said a very strong, thought-provoking episode. I haven’t sat down and ranked the episodes (I just know what my absolute favorites are, and as much as I like this one, it’s not one of them), but I feel like if I did this would be in the top third or so of the episodes this season.

Jessica Roth

I'm certain Giles saw Xillow at it, too. The body language in his legs stiffens. (I used to praise David for acting with his back to the camera, now I'm giving Tony props for acting with his legs, lol.). There

Jessica Roth

…isn't anything blocking his line of sight, either; it's just that we don't see his head because of the camera angle. Speaking of cameras…no blatant shoe-cam shots from James Contner this time, but we do see a bit of both Buffy and Faith's feet on the Library table at the start of Act 1. Brilliant job by Gwendolyn Post (Mrs) of just running her bluff so hard that nobody checked her credentials. My hat is off to her. (Not my arm, though; that's her deal.) Not only did Faith's Watcher die, but her Watcher was female, too. ("They don't have a word for what [Kakistos] did to HER" —Faith, in 3.03). As much as Joyce drives me up a wall, it's clear that Faith has a hole in her heart where she wants a mother-figure; her late Watcher must have filled the loss that Faith felt when her mom died, and then Faith feels she let the Watcher down, too, let HER die and she feels all alone, much though she hides it. And here comes Post to play on those weaknesses… (I bet Post read FAITH's file, for sure.)

Jessica Roth

Ms. Buffy is still pretty insufferable, IMO. How do you read the room so badly that you think Giles is "standing up for you"? If you look at ASH during the "intervention" scene, he looks half-about to vomit from the start. And the way he clenches his jaw when Buffy hauls out "I would never let Angel hurt any of you"… I mean, poor Xander gets the heat for pointing out the Jenny-shaped hole in THAT argument, but it's IMO pretty clear that Rupe had already spotted it. And I'll give Xander points for prescience; it really does seem as though his "prophecy" in 2.21 came true…Buffy did "forget all about Ms. Calendar's murder so [she] can have [her] boyfriend back." Boo on you, Buffy. Boo on you.

bing.E

I think the reason Xander is so angry about this is because he’s feeling guilty and mad at himself for doing what he’s doing with Willow. Willow is doing the same. She is just trying to be fair because she’s scared she doesn’t deserve to be treated fairly but hopes she will. She says Buffys judgement isn’t clear when it comes to Angel but theyll all help her so you can see how her situation with Xander reflects. Giles is feeling inadequate because Ms. Gwen Post made him feel that way by saying basically he’s not good at his jib and has no control of h is slayer so when Buffy did that with Angel, all Giles inadequacy felt validated. Also I think Giles saw and was slightly irritated with (Xander and Willow kissing) their judgment but not overly, he was just in a bad mood from the other watcher.

That’s Not Acting

Another great video, and you’re getting into the good stuff now. Small word of caution: every time I watch a new reactor go through these storylines and I read the comments and assertions and judgments by the loyal members of the Buffy fandom, I am concerned of the pressure or influence that can be placed on a new viewer in a position where the others opinion is very important. Just be aware that many, many opinions - particularly opinions regarding angel and Buffy‘s relationship with and/or to him - are colored by other opinions that you cannot be made aware of at this point in your journey. There are events and happenings in any show at every stage that can fundamentally change the way one views the characters and storylines. Buffy is no different. However, one thing has always remained the same in my experience of re-watching and watching these commentary videos: those fans with a particular opinion or group of opinions on certain events to come tend to be overly critical, one might even say irrationally so, when it comes to the topics of this episode. I personally agree with you. After what happened with deadman’s party I see no reason that Buffy would feel safe in confiding in any of her friends about something as sensitive as this angel issue. Add to that the state he was in when he came back and Giles having such a complicated history with him, and I think her feeling as though she had no choice, however flawed, is very very human… Particularly 16-year-old girl in love human. What I will say is this, and I’m going to be in the minority here: but I personally didn’t like the writing of Giles in this episode. This isn’t the last time this will happen either, but we can’t talk about that (by “that” I mean where I feel the writers misrepresented a character for the sake of a plot point. But in this particular instance, the only thing that has changed in Giles experience is the torture he suffered at the hands of Angelus in the mansion. At the end of season two, when Willow and Buffy first presented the spell that would re-ensoul angel, Giles was on, or at least leaning toward the side of, “yes, let’s get his soul back“ He had already killed Jenny. In fact, that was part of Giles’s rationale. He said, “re-ensouling Angel seems to have been Jenny’s last wish.” So what the writers are saying with this particular character choice is that he was willing to overlook the fact that Angelus had murdered Jenny, but a few hours of torture completely reversed his opinion. Not to mention, that the few hours of torture somehow made him forget that angel with a soul is not actually responsible for any of the actions committed by Angelus without a soul. I will definitely get some pushback on that point as well. All I’ll say is that Xander’s assertion that “I think a bunch of dead people actually constitutes a reason“ when trying to justify why he wants to kill Angel, makes zero sense. No one can argue that angelus killed many times more people before he got his soul the first time than he did during the events of season two. If the fact that his body was used by a demon to murder people was enough to justify killing him then they should’ve killed him when they first found out that he was a vampire. What seems to get lost that the angels story, one of the metaphors that the show is so famous for pushing, is one of redemption. I see arguments even in this comment thread that we should kill Angel simply because he might hurt somebody in the future. I think, seemingly, it gets lost on people that the show is an allegory about growing up. It’s a metaphor for life. And last I checked, “Gee, everything sucks and I’m sad and stuff, and it’s possible that things will get even worse. So why even try?” Is not a great philosophy for a living. 😂. But regardless of that, I just don’t think that Giles, being who he is and having gone through all the things that he’s gone through, having learned what he knows of life and forgiveness and redemption. I just don’t think that him even endorsing that completely ill-advised “intervention“ is even remotely within his character. Anybody with any sense could’ve told you that was going to go badly. Once told by Xander he absolutely should’ve sat Buffy down in a room, just the two of them, and talked it out. I suppose the writers want us to believe that he was so upset with Buffy that he didn’t care that this was going to devolve into a blaming session. There is no scenario in which that was going to go well and if anyone should’ve had the foresight to know that it would’ve been Giles. And yes I expect his feelings to be complicated but at the end of the day he should’ve been able to walk away from that room with that mindset that he expressed to the others. However Ill-advised, Buffy‘s actions can be understood. What makes it worse is that the writers also seemingly wanted us to believe that the constant ridicule from Mrs. Post colored his reaction to the news that Buffy had been lying to him. I just don’t think Giles is that petty. But that’s how I justified in my head canon. The mean old British lady had Giles out of sorts and so he acting out of character. That’s all I’ve got lol. Anyway great video. I figure I’m gonna get some hate and your comments for this one but it’s just important for me to say to you, a new viewer to the show, keep an open mind don’t give in to the overwhelming and obviously passionate opinions of anyone here in the Buffy fandom… Including me… And just allow yourself to enjoy the journey through the show.

Jessica Roth

…haven't gotten to know what Oz thinks, on almost any issue. Which is why I find him frustrating.) (Almost as frustrating as these comments posting before I want them to and my being too afraid to try editing. I really have to go back to typing them out and pasting them in the comment box. My apologies.)

Andrew Pulrang

I kind of love the way this show occasionally deals with its sloppy world-building with The Watcher’s Council — this time with a firmly tongue-in-cheek, “They swear there was a memo.” Flimsy, but witty, and kind of brilliant.

Bud Haven

My favorite scene of this episode is the last one. Faith almost reaches out to Buffy, and Buffy almost goes back in to talk to Faith. It's a real "paths untaken" moment.

Jessica Roth

All else aside, an excellent episode for violence. I believe it sets a new record for fights in one episode: 1. "Synchronized Slaying" in the teaser. 2. Lagos d. Faith 3. Buffy d. Lagos 4. Faith d. Angel (and OMG that stunt work!) 5. Buffy v. Faith, a draw 6. Buffy d. Post And that doesn't count Post clonking Giles, Post clonking Angel, or Angel tossing her around once he recovers. Fun, fun, for everyone! I wonder if having actual EMTs come for Giles is more of Andrew's tongue-in-cheek acknowledgements? First time we've seen that, I think.

Sarah

It was very nice of you to give Giles such a snazzy helmet too bad he didn’t wear it this episode 😔 It’s a shame I think Faith actually liked Post. I think she does need her own watcher though. Willow seems to be the only one that feels bad about the cheater. Strangely that stop her from cheating but at least she feels bad about it.

Teresa Schultz

I’m with you! I stay mad at Xander! I totally lol’d when you said, “Buffy, I didn’t know you could do that”! Also the Gwen Stefani, Gwyneth Paltrow…😂😂😂 I agree that everyone has valid points in the argument about Angel, but I still feel that Xander does have selfish motives. He is very possessive of every girl in his life. He wants Angel dead so badly and I don’t believe it’s all because of what Angelus did. I think he just wants him out of the picture! Anyway, what a great reaction! I love watching with you!

SK Elkins

Darcie, the way you feel about this Willow/Xander plotline is very much the way I felt about Angel even *existing* this season the first time I watched it. It's not so bad this time around, but back in the '90s, it almost led me to abandon the show, and I admit that it still irritates me. Every time we cut to an Angel scene, I'm rolling my eyes and thinking: "Oh my God, why are we still doing this?! Why is Buffy back to being "I have no choice!" Bad Eggs Buffy? Didn't we resolve this last season? Why is Buffy regressing? Why won't they let last season's development stick? Why are the writers doing this to me? WHY AREN'T YOU IN HELL, ANGEL?! And why are you always so sweaty, it's totally disgusting; put on a damned shirt, will ya?" I mean, don't get me wrong, I find the Willow/Xander stuff painful as well. I just sort of like it anyway, because you know. Messy bitch, loves drama, all of that. The messy bitch part of my personality overwhelms the rest for this episode, though. I like the Angel stuff in this episode because it causes painful drama, and I'm all about that. And at least he's doing something other than hanging around half-naked \with that gormless expression on his face.

RNR

I defo agree that S1 Angel and Buffy's relationship was annoying and troubling because his whole attitude towards her was problematic. Like how aggressive he was being with her, the fact that he only ever showed up randomly to give some stupid cryptic message and then disappear, that whole thing made it difficult to see why Buffy was so infatuated with him. But these past few episodes make it a little easier to understand. Buffy essentially took him in like a stray dog, and saw how psychologically torn up he was after hell. I think that addition to their relationship really changed Angel because now he's not so wrapped up in thinking "Oh, if she only knew what Angelus was like she'd want nothing to do with me" because now she HAS seen Angelus and she's forgiven him. Flashback to when he asks Buffy if she loves him before he tells her about torturing Drusilla. He was essentially telling her "You think you love me now because you have no idea what I've done." Buffy sees Angel apart from Angelus, which is something it seems like Angel has not been able to do, because he feels so much guilt over what Angelus has done. That all adds to his broodyness and his annoying habit of keeping her at arms length by disappearing suddenly that he had before going to hell. Now that he's returned, we see him being a lot more gentle with her and spending more time to talk and things like that. He's no longer stressed about keeping his dark side hidden from her, now he's just trying to make amends for what Angelus did. Throughout this whole process of Angel coming back from hell and nursing him back to health, Buffy is relating to him in a way that she can't relate to anyone else in the world (except maybe Faith?) Angel sees the evils of the world and because of his soul feels compelled to fight them, and he actually CAN. All Buffy's other friends maybe want to join the fight but they're in horrible danger when they do because they have no supernatural powers. Angel on the other hand knows what it's like to be totally alone, harboring the responsibility of fighting evil with no end in sight. And I think even his darkness and "mystery" has always spoken to Buffy in the sense that her life now revolves entirely around death and darkness and violence and secrecy, through no fault of her own. Angel is the only person who's life is also solely about death and fighting evil because although Buffy's other friends may help her patrol and stuff, they also have their own lives. At any point they could just STOP fighting and it would be acceptable because they have no moral obligation to fight and they have no secret identity to protect. It was also not Angel's fault that he was turned into Angelus. Angel never said "yeah, vampirism, sign me up!" Nor was it his idea to get his soul back. But Angel is now forced to live for eternity seeing evil around every corner and his soul/conscience forces him to atone for sins he literally was in no control of. Having all control over your life taken away is something else Buffy can relate to, so I can understand that connection she feels towards him.

Calvin Allen

"Are there any bad watchers?" lolz