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Season 3, Ep 11 (Patreon)

Published:
2022-01-06 16:23:17
Edited:
2023-07-01 15:36:00
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

kid ghosts??? .... KID GHOSTS?? 🙈🙈

Files

Buffy Season 3, Ep 11 - Gingerbread

Vidyard video

Comments

RNR

This obviously came up in the S2 finale, but this ep brought it back up for me so I'm just gonna throw it here: I don't think the reason Joyce "kicked Buffy out of the house" was because she was a Slayer. The reason Joyce said "if you walk out that door don't come back" was simply a (misguided) tactic to force Buffy to stay and talk it through with her. She didn't understand what all was at stake when Buffy was leaving (the Angel/Acathla/World-Being-Sucked-Into-Hell shenanigans), she just knew that once again, her daughter was walking out into the dead of night without an explanation and with all this crazyness going on, Joyce felt completely out of control which, as a mother, I can only imagine how scary and disorienting that would be. But personally, I never saw that interaction as Joyce saying "if you're gonna be a Slayer you can't stay in my home." I see how people can see it that way though, especially with the earlier parallel of Slayer/LGBTQ and the fact that so many LGBTQ kids ARE kicked out just for being LGBTQ. You can even see at the beginning of this episode that Joyce is being (overly) supportive, which again, the misguidedness comes from her trying to control a situation in her daughter's life that she is entirely unprepared for. But it's her kid. I think she just wants some comfort in knowing and SEEING that Buffy's okay without being able to fully grasp yet the reality of the situation. Of course she still sees Buffy as a 5, 8, 11, 15, 17 year old girl who suddenly has the strength of 20 men and the fate of the world resting on her daily chore of vampire slayage, like WHAT?? 🤯

Melissa

Aw, crown for Oz. Highly approve. About to get on a team call but will grab a bite and watch right after. Can't wait!

Jessica Roth

So, after Joss (IMO) spit the bit, we get the "Dream Team" of Jane Espenson (that one-joke stupidity that was "Band Candy" writing and James A. Whitmore Jr. (hack director who was so terrible on 3.02 and 3.04) behind the lens. What could go wrong? Actually, not too much. I rather like this, despite some obvious flaws. (Jane has a co-writer, which helps, and Whitmore isn't always at his worst, I guess.). My psych consult is at the top of the hour, so I have to hold on for later, but this will brighten up my afternoon. Thanks, Darcie!

Tim Pierce

To me there are two separate ratings you can give an episode. There's watching it by yourself, and there's watching it with friends (and/or a reactor). The by-yourself rating for this episode is fairly low to me. I don't much care for it (though SMG is adorable with her hair did and "no fruit for Buffy" is one of my favorite lines in the series), but watching it with a first timer is loads of fun.

Claire Eyles

Happy New Year, Darce. If you ever want to feel really young I can reminisce about videos and other fun stuff that will make me look like a fossil, LOL. Not a huge fan of this episode, it's passable filler to me, but your reaction made it fun. :)

Sisnerdly

Yay! I forgot it was Twosday! 😉 The snow is also coming down here in Illinois. Gonna grab my coffee, maybe a gingerbread cookie and enjoy this very much. PS the "A doodle. I do doodle. You too. You do doodle too." is a quote I'm desperately trying to use in everyday conversation to no avail so far.

Claire Eyles

Giles on the computer is so me, it cracks me up. I worked in computer support and ran websites for people back in the 90s, but I am so impatient when a computer is slow, or doesn't do what I'm telling it to do that I will literally start talking back and yelling at it, as if that's going to do anything. LOL :D

bing.E

Hansel and Gretel I believe goes something like two lost kids in the woods get lowered to a house by bread or something and they see a house (there are different versions I believe w gingerbread house and candy) and the witch lives there, invites them in and locks them in a room and makes them keep eating to fatten them up until they are ready for the oven but the kids figure it out and when she is getting the oven ready they instead push her in. Idk if they leave after that or the story ends. I vaguely remember them leaving the house and following bread crumbs so they won’t be lost but maybe Im confusing stories. Hmm idk but I think that’s the basis. Buffy definitely altered the story a bit.

Steve Quast

So many fuzzy animals in this episode. Bunny, goats for sacrificing, Moo...

Steve Quast

Joyce: Is Sunnydale getting any better? Interesting question after have just seen "The Wish" two episodes ago.

Whisper_dvm

Always a fun reaction Darcie! Especially to one of my least favorite eps of the season. The audio of the episode was a bit weird this time. Your mic audio was perfectly clear but the episode audio was kinda muffled? Not quiet but like hearing it through a pillow or something. It was still very watchable and by the end I didn’t really notice it anymore.

Melissa

So I probably shouldn't tell you this but the most disturbing version I have read of Hansel and Gretel is one called The True Story of Hansel and Gretel which is a fictional retelling of the fairy tale set in a war torn story of survival. Basically the children are Jewish and have to hide their real names and are renamed Hansel and Gretel after their father and stepmother are forced to abandon them in the woods. Because it is war and particularly WWII, there are unspeakable things going on in this book. I can't even comment on some. But I think there are some parallels of Nazi Germany to this episode. Passion of the Nerd mentions it in his review. But again, spoilery. Anyway, most of the true Grimm fairy tales are way more dark than what we've always thought but this was a level way beyond that. On a much lighter note when you mentioned not sitting in a circle, my first thought: Wait, no Duck Duck Goose?!

Jordan Haddow

I kind of have a soft place for these psych out episodes. I have this theory that when fans kind of get a hate on for a character that the writers weren't intending, they use a psych out episode to kind of play on fans animosity against the character. Some people by this point in the show like Joyce, but unfortunately, many fans really didn't like her. I think many people during season two forget that she's in the dark with respects to Buffy being the Slayer and hate her because she keeps cracking down on Buffy so hard. For many of them, that resentment kept fueling along not helped by 3x02 where everybody, including Joyce, puts the blame on Buffy's shoulders. (That may not be true, but it can appear that way) So, in this episode, if fans dislike or even hate Joyce, her actions seem to them to be in line with what they think of her character. It's easy, right before you see the ghost kids, to just get so mad at Joyce. That's why I think it's kind of a slap in the face to those that dislike her when they realize that her actions have been distorted through manic since she found the bodies. So, her only authentic actions in the episode were her bringing Buffy snacks and wanting to bond with her. So, in a way, I think this episodes purpose was to make those who really believed that Joyce was turning the town against Buffy and her friends feel foolish. To reset their thinking on Joyce. She's no longer in the dark when it comes to Buffy. She knows she has this whole obligation and is supporting her. Watching other reactors, some liked Joyce, but others really disliked her. It kind of funny to watch along and see how fast each catches on to the fact that Joyce is being influenced by an outside source, or at least figure that the behaviour is outside her norms. Other than the style of episode, this one had a lot of shock value and humor. Still, for me, the use of dead kids was a bit too harsh I think for the show. That beginning is pretty tough.

x_Rhi_x

hilarious reaction. You made this filler episode fun to rewatch XD I'm not sure if you intend to watch Angel, but I was kinda thinking not, especially after last episode lol. However, I actually think you'd enjoy the camp, funny elements, especially of s1. Another reactor, Ally Box, is always hysterical at some of the stuff in Angel that I don't think other reactors quite get, and just look puzzled at. but i'm sure you will find the humour. You laugh at stupid stuff like I do....giggling over "MOO" for so long XD. Also I Just wanted to query the sound being quite muffled/staticy, which its never done before. Did you record on a different device? I know nothing about technology btw lol. It's was fine but I found it a tiny bit distracting so just thought i'd mention it. Sorry i'm just being a fussy cow!

Sika6061

Happy New Year! I hope your Pokémon champion status survived another challenger. Every time I watch this I crack up when they decide to burn witches inside City Hall rather than outside where the rest of MOO wouldn't asphyxiate along with Buffy and her friends. Brilliant decision. Do they not have sprinklers in Sunnydale? 🤔 Must've been grandfathered in, I guess. This episode is fun, and great reaction as always. Oz is a prince among men. Glad you agree.

Jessica Roth

I don't blame Possessed!Joyce for what she in the second half of the ep, because…possessed. But she's…less than good in the first half, too. It's one thing to have an interest in "the slaying", but another to just show up on patrol, unannounced and with Buffy taken by surprise. And the she wanders off, *Immediately* , even though Buffy TELLS her to stay put. Yeesh. Basically, she never wants to take Buffy's opinion into account, even when Buff is in her metier. Way to listen, Mom. Oy.

Bud Haven

I always forget how funny this episode is. But I always remember how disturbing parents turning on their children is. My favorite part is Buffy skewering the troll while tied to the stake and saying "Did I get it? Did I get it?" They should make that a birthday game for Buffy's party!😂😂😂

Callumbo Heath

I feel like this episode misses a scene or two, namely why do the "children" show up with that symbol on their hands? I feel like it would make sense if the spell summoned the demon or was drawn to Sunnydale because of the spell but is discounted by it being every "50 years". We know the symbol is harmless midway through the episode and maybe it could have been used to identify who the witches are, but it isn't so only serves as a misdirect for the audience. I'm also unsure why Amy's spell backfired. Was it because her hands were tied? Was it the demon? Was she unclean???

charlie ray

You know … you actually make me revisit some of these episodes and enjoy them more and I didn’t think that possible! Loved this! I’m the same for witch themes …. (The craft if you haven’t seen it please react) but yeah! I know angel isn’t your fave character but you will love the spin off! And! I for one would pay a bit more for a higher tier that has both buffy and angel ! X

Andrew Pulrang

I’ve always thought of this as a less important, stand-alone episode. But your thoughts on the complexity of Joyce here have me thinking it plays at least one role in the longer-term plot. Joyce kicked Buffy out at the moment she found out about her being the Slayer. But that was kind of a reflex reaction she regretted immediately. Joyce also had that moment where she blamed Giles for keeping the big secret, but that anger didn’t really last. So I think that for some semblance of realism we needed to see Joyce try one more time to totally reject the whole Slayer thing, before she could settle into a passive but essentially accepting role. And this was it, I think. Although she was influenced like the others by the fairy tale ghost children, there was more to it for Joyce. It was at least partially a way for her to try one last time to fully deny the Slayer thing. She couldn’t deny its reality anymore, but she could turn against it. I’m not sure it completely worked. But it was subtle enough to show that Joyce was under a spell, but also kind of working through her own feelings at the same time.

Jessica Roth

Jane Espenson's co-writer is Thania St. John, who previously wrote for "VR5", a syndicated sci-fi series on which Anthony Stewart Head had a recurring role. More on this late in the season. But I don't want to take away from Jane doing certain things well. The scene with Snyder and Giles in the Library is great, and the one with Willow and her mom is IMO a classic. (You might argue it goes on a beat too long, but I'm not sure I really care.)

Jessica Roth

As I say, James Whitmore Jr. has improved on his previous directing flops, but there are still problems. I mentioned upthread that Amy needs to point her hands to properly do the Hecate spell (as seen in the opening credits of this episode, which show Amy zapping Buffy in "BB&B") and she accidentally ratted herself because her hands were bound and she ended up inadvertently pointing at herself. A decent director would do an insert shot of Amy's hands as she struggles with her bonds and a close-up of her shock as she realizes what's happening. But Whitmore just gives us a full-length shot of Amy, because he's just as lazy as when he wouldn't give us a shot of Willow in 3.02 to indicate whom Xander meant by asking Buffy "Did you even try talking to ANYONE?" Hack. And I think a better director would shoot the firehose scene better so you could clearly see the flames threatening Buffy and Willow in one part of the hall while Cordelia is distracted by spraying the MOOsters elsewhere. Instead it's a poorly-staged mess that relies on Buffy's lines to carry our understanding. Feh.

Jessica Roth

A few nit-picks: What happened to Oz's SuperNose from "Lovers Walk"? Three episodes ago, Oz could smell Willow's fear from across town. Now, even though she's nearly BURNING TO DEATH, he can't find her a couple of rooms away, until it's too late. Geez, Oz. (Maybe he didn't REALLY completely forgive her, so the SuperSniffer is on strike? Or perhaps he was always faking it and in "Lovers Walk", he just decided to screw his "find Giles" mission and check the Factory on his own? Given that it hardly takes brainpower to figure out where Spike would have his hostages stashed. So Oz just changed direction on his own, and let Cordelia delude herself about the "SuperNose" nonsense. It's not as if Oz ever particularly esteemed Cordy's intelligence, after all.) I'm also not exactly sure that Cordelia can smash the glass guarding the fire extinguisher with a well-placed elbow-strike, or that she'd even attempt it. I love many things about Cordy (those scenes with Giles are a delight), but I rarely mistake her for the Hulk.

Jessica Roth

Oh, and you rarely burn people at the stake INDOORS, because of the smoke-inhalation issues for the crowd. It's a spectator sport, after all. Plus, I'd hope City Hall has a sprinkler system. If the season ends with the Mayor burning to death in his office because Allan was sneaking cigarette in the lunch room and accidentally set some napkins on fire, I'm going to be disappointed.