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Season 3, Ep 17 (Patreon)

Published:
2022-02-18 16:31:00
Edited:
2023-07-01 15:34:02
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

holy shit lol 😳

Files

Buffy Season 3, Ep 17 - Enemies

Vidyard video

Comments

Holi117

I’m sure its been said a bunch of times, but i assume/ believe/ infer… that the mayor hires this demon dude to remove angel’s soul; and the demon then goes to giles and says the mayor has hired him for this thing. Faith has a few tells (waltzing right into the book-demon’s apartment, knowing there was a light switch hidden behind a wall which faith reaches for and turns on without looking or even facing that directio , how quick she is to leave the place and her overall demeanour there - all likely tipped off buffy something was up; and giles and buffy, putting 2 and 2 together, came up with the angelus fake out plan (including the demon hired by the mayor of course). All this assumes thats either the mayor mentioned buffy/ the slayer to the soul-demon, or that the soul-demon knew of angel’s connection to giles and buffy to be able to goto him and alert him. Some people say that giles contacted the soul-demon to plan this out but i dont see how thats feasible within the context of the rest of the episode. I think the soul-demon’s line about “do not call upon me again…” just means, dont contact him in future in general because they are even, the debt is repaid, he wont answer/ wont necessarily side with him in future, etc. i dont think it meant giles contacted him for the purpose of the angelus plan.

Sisnerdly

I have 12 things to do today. But am I going to stop everything and watch this reaction? Yes. Yes I am.

Jessica Roth

From an episode that just gets better and better everytime…to the episode where one's opinion can change the most between the first and second viewings, IMO. Which arguably makes this immediate reaction less relevant. Not that I won't work to see this ASAP, though. (Physical therapist and nurse both due this afternoon. Glad to see them, but…)

ghostofdurruti

Oh hi, "Angelus". Is it weird that I kind of missed that smug asshole? He was such a good villain... Anyway, I enjoy this episode a lot, but there's a big problem with the underlying logic that bugs me every time. Will elaborate after I've had time to watch the reaction.

L R

There was a scene where the demon reached for a hidden light switch in his apartment and there was another scene where Buffy watched Faith head straight for that same hidden light switch. To be fair I probably only caught this after my 20th rewatch. That's the point where Buffy knew Faith was up to no good. She probably then hatched the plan after her conversation with Willow .

Amy

That 'second best' is so cool

Alphatrion

So Buffy I’m guessing voices her concern to Giles after Faith just knows without looking where the light switch is since or wasn’t located in an obvious place like by the entrance to the room. And Giles knows this mage or whatever he is well having introduced him to his wife we can assume they have spoken about living on the hell mouth and can assume as part of those conversations that Girls mentioned Angel the demon with a soul. So after the mayor hires him he goes to Giles who along with Buffy and Angel map out a plan

Andrew Pulrang

I still don’t really understand how the deception was planned, or when. But I have always felt that fake Angelus behaved pretty consistently with his past character. He was always willing to go along with someone else’s gig, at least temporarily, as long as it would be amusing to him. Had that actually been Angelus signing on with the Mayor, I could absolutely see him thinking, “Who is this weirdo? Oh, kinda interesting. Let’s go with it and see what happens, I can always improvise later.” At no point did it seem like he was entirely buying into anything the Mayor or Faith was doing. He gave the impression that he was totally in it for the LOLs. And for what it’s worth, my sense is that THAT would have been just fine with Mayor Wilkins, who always seems to be open to temporary alliances of convenience.

SK Elkins

As The Zeppo is to Jessica Roth, so Enemies is to me. It's the episode that everyone else seems to love, but which I dislike more every time I see it. There are very few Buffy episodes that I actually *hate.* This is one of them. But gosh, Darcie, you had so much fun with this one that I'm now feeling strangely reticent about it. I just so enjoyed watching you enjoy watching it. So maybe I'll rant about this episode some other time. Not today. Thank you for a terrific reaction!

Jordan Haddow

Ooooh, yes. I love that you point out all the questions that arise surrounding slayer lore with respects to demons that don't kill and what about bad humans. I love nerding out on all the slayer lore in this show. Now, I could go into an in depth and very long discussion on the matter, as I've probably done that a million times already. I'm not going to here though. Some of the real fun of this show is getting a chance to figure some of that stuff out on your own, and since these episodes are really posing those questions, I think it's especially important to not just be told. I can though, point out some of my favorite episodes that do build the foundation of the lore that Buffy uses to guide her in these types of matters. Of course, I love Ted, the episode, not the insane robot bent on drugging everyone and killing Joyce. Of Course, Ted is built right on top of Lie to Me. Both of those deal with the human side of things along with other matters. Then of course, there's Angel, which breaks Buffy out of her black and white model of all demons must die. Of course, the Pilot episode is the ground layer of the foundation, fi you really want to go all the way back to the slayer lore's roots. Additionally, both becomings and Amends all add their bits. Honestly, one of the reasons this show is so good is because when you rewatch it, it isn't the same old stuff you watched before. There are all these details that make so much more sense when you've seen ahead to episodes that build on them. In the first run through, they seem interesting, but not that important. Later though, you can see how vital they are to the show, so it doesn't have to waste time explaining a bunch of little things, but just get on with the big stuff, like, should or could Buffy kill Faith? This episode even subtly explores more of the slayer lore when the demon runs away from them in the graveyard. Buffy stops faith, not just because she's interested in hearing more from the demon, but because she doesn't think he poses a threat to people. A little bit of lore that one of the above mentioned episodes builds so Buffy would react that way. What can I say, you just have to love a show that requires reasoning and motivations to back actions.

indaeo

Hands down - this has been my favorite reaction to the big reveal. I already loved this episode, but you made me love it even more. And thank you for pausing to give yourself time to freak out. lol

Teresa Schultz

I was on the edge of my seat waiting for your reaction to the big twist at the end and you did not disappoint! I love that you have gotten to know these characters so much (and their acting is so good) that you knew something was up with Faith coming to Angel and something was “off” with Angelus. You are a true fan!

Jessica Roth

I realize that the only reason Petrie has The Three Assholes lying to the rest of the cast (and also Wesley) is to pull a cheap trick on the audience, but I can't help analyzing it within the show only. WHAT is the rationale for lying to Willow and Xander and Cordy and Oz? Does Buffy suddenly not trust them? Ridiculous! Angel hits Xander with a completely unnecessary sucker punch (he could have kept his "cover" by simply telling him what was going on: "We're going to meet Buffy; you go to the Library and let the others know") and Buffy says "he only did what I asked him to do." So either Buffy TOLD Angel to beat Xander up (and leave him unconscious on a Sunnydale street at night) or Angel went out of his way to exceed his mission and hit her "best friend"…and she doesn't care. The hell? If nothing else, why isn't Buffy concerned for Xander's safety any longer? Why isn't she keeping him "fray-adjacent"? It's not as if she knows about his "secretly cool" heroics in the Zeppo episode, after all.

Jessica Roth

Hey, by the way, how are we doing on following up on 3.13's promise of a more centered and mature Xander, one that the writers will treat with respect? Well, in this episode, Buffy lies to him, Angel sucker-punches him, and Petrie makes him the butt of a joke where he's too much of a wuss to beat up Willy and has to bribe him. And because he didn't get a receipt, he's out $28! (That's like, what, $200 Canadian? j/k). Ha-ha! What a LOSER!! I mean, why doesn't Giles just do the mature thing and reimburse Xander, simply telling him "next time, get a receipt, please"? Giles is a working adult who can afford a fancy apartment (I certainly was never able to spring for a place with a loft bedroom…) and while he might be down to only one paycheck these days, I'm reasonably sure he can afford $28 a lot more than a kid living on an allowance, who could only afford $2 for his Halloween costume, and had to borrow his tuxedo and his fancy car from relatives. Stop being a jerk, Rupe.

Jessica Roth

But as bad as it is that Buffy (and Giles) treat Xander that way, that's not even a patch on how they treat Willow. Even allowing that Buffy wasn't just faking the angst with Willow in Act II (and I'm REALLY dubious of that, because how did she agree to the plan if she actually thought Angel might dump her for Faith?), didn't she just spend last episode trying to rebuild her bonds with Willow after they'd been frayed by what happened in "Bad Girls/Consequences"?

Jessica Roth

(Okay, I grant you, one of my few quibbles with "Döppelgängland" is that Whedon doesn't make that connection firmly enough. If you hadn't seen the previous two episodes, you'd think the only trouble between Buffy and Willow was that Buffy called her "reliable". Oh, that silly Willow! Getting all butt-hurt because of a silly word that Buffy didn't mean to be harsh! Remember, Buffy is our Pure and Valiant Defender of Innocent Foreheads, and Willow is just some dumb slut who cheated on Oz the Great, the Bestest Boyfriend Ever! So OBVIOUSLY it's all Willow's fault, right?)

Jessica Roth

But no, Buffy decides to lie to Willow for no reason, and let Willow think that Angel has lost his soul again. Sure, let's let Willow think that the mass-murderer who tried to choke her to death, who tried to kill Xander, who left her a sobbing wreck by killing her favorite teacher/mentor/role model, who was responsible for putting her in a coma and having her confined to a wheelchair…let Willow think he's back. That makes tons of sense! Honestly, "Angel's back, in the really BAD way" must have been the biggest nightmare Willow and Xander have had for the past year. And Buffy lets them feel that horror all over again…for ZERO reason. (Cordelia has also shown [in "Revelations"] that she's not over Season 2, either, but Buffy almost never takes Cordy's feelings into consideration.) It doesn't even make sense from a "protect Angel" point of view. Thinking that "Angelus" is back might spur the gang into action that will leave Buffy boyfriendless. If the gang had made it to the mansion 30 seconds sooner, someone could have fired a crossbow bolt and ended the "threat" of "Angelus" once and for all. (Heck, during the melee, Oz looks as if he's about to stake Angel [and earn my undying love…], but he stops himself, for reasons that are unclear. Damn it, Wolfboy! Don't tease!)

Jessica Roth

And doesn't the fact that we're all glad to see "Angelus" again say something about the Mayor being…somewhat lacking? I mean, we're *seventeen* episodes in and he hasn't even confronted Buffy yet. He hasn't even threatened her, barring Mr. Trick's silly "hope she walks under this one particular crate and then drop it on her " Rube Goldberg plan. (Yes, yes, threats to Willow and Angel…but still.) It's nice that he's invincible, but it's not exactly making for thrilling television. JMO.

Jessica Roth

Finally (lol! at last!), I should note that Doug Petrie also lets us down on the violence front this time. The man gave us 11 fights in his previous two eps (plus Gwen Post bonking people and Buffy/Faith wrecking a police car). Now? We get Faith stabbing a demon, Faith and Angel "wiggling" for a bit, Angel suckerpunching people, and Buffy and Faith having a brief scuffle. Big whoop. Did Jeff Pruitt take the week off or something? Yes, yes, lesbian subtext between Buffy and Faith, but since that's almost guaranteed to be nothing but a tease, IMO it doesn't make up for everything else that's lacking. Even if Doug did get Faith to (finally) kiss Buffy at the end. (Doug wanted the kiss to be on the lips. The network said no. Which is presumably why we won't get scenes of Faith taking Angel's place in Buffy's sex dreams any time soon.)