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Study 124 - The Pilgrimage of Clifford M. - Part 2 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-03-11 20:07:40
Imported:
2025-03
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Join us as we follow Bob Leman's The Pilgrimage of Clifford M. to an emotional end!

Special thanks to our amazing reader Andrew Leman!

STRANGE ONE is still available!

Next up: Feedback and The Time of the Worm

Comments

KendoHead

I'm downloading this before you lads realise it's not Thursday.

Bugberry

I relistened to most of the show's episodes over the last year, and Chad's hillbilly story reminded me of something I've noticed. While Chris brings up personal stories every now and again, but it seems like Chad has so many crazy personal stories that seem to be oddly appropriate for stories being covered. I don't think he's making them up, but his colorful personal stories seemed to come up so much more often.

Sanjay Mathew

Re baby vampires and Monchichi- you guys might want to google Labubu. Its a monster toy thing that was faddish in East/South East Asia earlier this year and looks even more like Leman's description of a baby vamp

Drix

Not even one mention of the Golden Girls. Know that when I read this story, my mind had Blanche Devereaux deliver the killing blow on that vampire, which made it even better.

Christine M

(First, thanks for coincidentally having Andrew read the exact passage that I commented about under the last episode - it made me laugh all over again!) If you enjoyed medieval histories about fake relics, definitely check out Mark Twain's snarky travelogue, "The Innocents Abroad, or The New Pilgrim's Progress"! A quote from Chapter 17, upon seeing St. John's ashes displayed in a church: "We did not desire to disbelieve these statements, and yet we could not feel certain that they were correct . . partly because we had seen St. John's ashes before, in another church. We could not bring ourselves to think St. John had two sets of ashes . . . But isn’t this relic matter a little overdone? We find a piece of the true cross in every old church we go into, and some of the nails that held it together. I would not like to be positive, but I think we have seen as much as a keg of these nails. Then there is the crown of thorns; they have part of one in Sainte Chapelle, in Paris, and part of one also in Notre Dame. And as for bones of St. Denis, I feel certain we have seen enough of them to duplicate him if necessary." Also, Chapter 53 recounts similar alleged wonders in Jerusalem, which include the dirt from which Adam was made!

Jason Thompson

Based on just this one story and “Window” I’m noticing a recurring theme of gross predators who look like people

Andrew M. Reichart

I remember hearing a rumor as a kid that there was a mafia custom of rubbing bullets with garlic in order to make infection more likely? 🤷‍♂️ No idear if that’d work but there’s yer garlic bullets

John Bladek

When we meet Clifford’s family and his mother lifts her skirts it reminded me of that most infamous X-Files episode, Home. If you have seen it you know, and you can never listen to Johnny Mathis the same way ever again.

Alan Ricks

Wow, what a wonderful story! I also think his mind broke and he just started jumping to conclusions. Like, his parents/family were most likely not raised by humans or at any point assimilated into human culture. Their minds were NEVER developed past an animalistic drive to survive and camouflage themselves just enough externally to feed. Also, this vampire language they spoke at first, that could be incredibly ancient. Which could be why their minds have suffered dementia and their bodies rot away so fast. They might be far older than centuries old, they could of traveled over from the Old World for safer feeding grounds. There is nothing saying it couldn’t be a combination of those things either. He could of lived possibly for thousands of years and never ended up like them. I’m surprised the Three Investigators staked him. Makes me think his wife isn’t insane.

ESTY

Clifford, Cliff, friend, let me hold your hand; I get it. It might feel like your whole existence is stained, that there is a chance that you are damned to degenerate into a hillbilly for eternity. It must be overwhelming, but hear me out; before we make any permanent, irreversible decisions… maybe ask your mom how to turn into a bat? Ever dreamed of flying, Cliff? It could be just the thing to give you some perspective on things. Don’t get trapped in the moment, this too shall pass.

Pam Winkler

My husband brought up the whole “you don’t know that your mind is going to go” thing you did. Honestly, I think he kind of panicked. So many hopes just shattered. And intelligent vampires would hunt like he did, without known deaths.

Ethan Cordray

What an unexpected turn this took! Now I see exactly what Jim Rockhill meant in the intro you read in part 1. This story takes the classic Lovecraftian themes of alienation and genealogical degeneracy in tales like "The Outsider," "The Lurking Fear," and "Arthur Jermyn" and puts several new twists on them. In particular, I was struck by how Clifford already knows that he's an inhuman creature, but it isn't until the end that he realizes that this means that he's a *monster.* But I agree with others, that I don't think he's being fair to himself in leaping to that conclusion. If only he'd taken the time to consult the documentary "Blade," he'd have realized that it's possible to be a good vampire who fights bad vampires. Poor Cliff!

Jason Thompson

I like that the vampires in this story are almost scientifically plausible as some sort of divergent predatory primates (like in Peter Watts’ novels) but then there is also the unexplored detail that they can turn into bats. What?!! But it’s kind of nice because it give a touch of (familiar) weirdness to what’s otherwise a very bleak story.

Daniel Weber

Nobody makes the word "indubitably" sound as good as Andrew Leman!

Christopher

I must say I was terribly disappointed when Chad said "It drives me up a wall!" instead of "It drives me batty!" May you be haunted by the Ghost of Puns Past for your transgressions. Love the show!

Casey

Cool story. Thanks for pointing listeners to its location on the internet archive. Hopefully Leman’s work enjoys republication soon. Nice track at the end of the episode as well. Happy March! Ahh-ahh-ahh…

Anne Ominous

I can't ever get enough of these Leman guys! More more more! So, I've read ahead and beyond and this Bob Leman has got some killer stuff. You guys will do it way more justice than I can, but I'm really getting a lot out of his craft. Maybe its the modern setting of the stories and with it modern sensibilities...? Maybe he has a better handle on the human condition...? Either way, you've struck gold here! Thanks for sharing!

Derek Scott

On the way to drop off my son and listening to Pt. 2. Chad said something that got him laughing and he was like, “I like that guy. Is he always this funny?”

Erick W Mertz

I love the hillbilly story you told about your Dad. I was walking my dog through the neighborhood and sputtered into uncontrollable laughter in front of a bunch of roofers on their break. I hardly noticed that my over eager puppy was nosing in on one of their lunches. Priceless!

Bret Kramer

This feels like (based only on listening to your discussions) two stories shoehorned together. It would have worked better as the second half alone with the lengthy life story of Clifford revealed by the vampire hunters after they found and staked him. That’s not to say I don’t like the story, just that the framing device seemed like a needless complication. Also, why semi-anonymize Clifford but give all sorts of details about other people in his life, including the romantic entanglements of the doctor and the industrialist?! I would assume it would be easy to identify Clifford from the details provided in the story.

Ash Kent

Guys, it may be too late for this month‘s March is for Draculas, but just last week the universe smiled on me and I stumbled upon The Incompleat Nifft by Michael Shea in Goodwill of all places. Yes, I squealed like a maniac and probably embarrassed my husband a little bit (I myself have no shame). I’m halfway through the book, which is a collection of short stories about Nifft the Lean‘s adventures and it’s an absolute masterpiece of fantasy as well as sword and sorcery. Anyhoo, one of the stories centers on the kingdom of a certain vampire queen…Queen Vulvula. No, I’m not making that up. Really, I’m dying for y’all to cover any of the stories in the book. They really are incredible and right up y’all’s street.

Jim Cannon

Wow. I was expecting the vampires he found to be directly related to him in some way, but thought it might be another escaped cub. Didn't expect the parents, or his reaction to the revelation. Neat trick of Bob's to make slaying the vampire a downer ending.

Jim Cannon

There is a persistent myth about the Middle Ages that most people never went further than six miles from their home. This, naturally, ignores Vikings, Arabic merchants, and *pilgrimages*. No, not everyone could afford a trip to Rome or Jerusalem, but Lindisfarne, Lourdes, and oh hey Canturbury were accessible and many, many people made the trek.

Pete Williams

Weirdest episode of Frasier ever.

Ben Gilbert

One of the more interesting holy relics of the Catholic Church was the Holy Prepuce, or Holy Foreskin. Purported to be the foreskin of Jesus, there were a dozen of them scattered about Europe in medieval times. Most recently there was one in Calcata, Italy. It was paraded around until 1983 when it and the jewel covered reliquary were stolen.

The Spider Incident

No commentary to add here, just wanted to say I though this was a very good story! I'm glad you guys covered it

Artemis

This one had me thinking about the importance of visibility and positive representation for people who feel "other" - this could be biracial, transgender, people with mental health issues - if all you get is either invisibility or horrible stereotypes, it can really mess you up. I felt let down by clifford's decision to basically commit suicide and the others' decision to assist with that. If he just had more resiliency /a growth mindset, and more supportive network around him, he could have made it past this crisis. And the other vampires really did feel like a crazy hillbilly stereotype. The communication issue was really interesting to see play out. But I am just gonna say it: even normal mammals who can't tell you their earliest memory clean themselves and each other regularly, and like to keep their place of living free of refuse (or somewhat organized at the least). Clifford got done dirty

It's a Ghost.

If you want to read about real "hillbillies," I recommend checking out the book "Our Southern Highlanders" by Horace Kephart. In the very early 1900s, the author left his wife and kids and went out into Appalachia and interacted and lived with the locals. In the book he both recognizes the "backwards" or primitive ways of life of the locals, but also humanizes them and explains why they lived the way they lived. It's great. The book can be found here at Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/31709

Apollo Sitting Up

I needed a scene of Clifford’s realization, “ you mean.. I’m a.. HILLBILLY?? NOOOOOOO!” 😂

Pagurus

In this story universe, vampires are born, not turned. Hence Clifford's despair is quite understandable. The "hillbillies" are most certainly vampires in their natural state and there is no sophisticated hidden society of draculas to hope for.

Eric - Speaker in Digressions

Wow, that escalated from "Worf is disappointed in the other Klingons" to "Arthur Jermyn" very quickly. Anyway, now I've got the Monchichi jingle stuck in my head.

Falconhoof

There's no mystery why Clifford wants to be staked at the end of the story. If you spent your whole life trying to discover who you really are; only to meet your parents, who then bang right in front of you; wouldn't you do the same? And to make it even worse, your dad has weird junk and your mum has ten breasts

James Anthony

Ah yes, the classic Lovectaftian theme of being horrified you'll turn out like your parents .lol

Karlandos

The characterization of the other vampires was perfect. That sort of mix of animal and human traits and how alien it feels as well as how uncomfortable it feels for them interact in a human like way when they only do it to help them hunt. The cherry on top is the protagonist's dissappointment that his refined existence was an anomoly and not the norm for his kind.

Camshaft

I love that all of this analysis is going on, but I would really like to point out the similarity between strangeness, and cliff’s estrangement, to queerness, again.