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Extra Credit 038 - Men (Patreon)

Published:
2025-08-29 14:30:04
Imported:
2025-08
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We're having a talk about Alex Garland's weird film MEN, and we could use your input!

Songs talked about in this episode:

Leslie Duncan - Love Song

PJ Harvey - Sheela-Na-Gig

Next month we're back tackling Lovecraftian fiction, starting with There Are More Things and The Book of Sand by Jorge Luis Borges!

Comments

Rick Hound

Gene Wolfe also uses Green Men in the Book of the New Sun, playing with folklore and myth in a sci-fi adjacent manner. A common theme throughout the very strange world he constructs

It's a Ghost.

You'd mentioned Men on a previous episode of the podcast, and from your brief description at the time, I imagined a light, quirky movie featuring a village populated by a bunch of Rory Kinnears. Boy, was I wrong! Also, I really liked the movie and had very similar thoughts on it as you guys 🙂 And after listening to the episode, my guess is that the forked hand might be a reference to the snake in the Garden of Eden. Also, Jessie Buckley is great, and she can also sing. https://youtu.be/ovlxs5TxNm0?si=KskmZCJUOQjM9InV

Aragonewrong

The Green Man also happens to play a key part in "Scritch, Scratch" an excellent CoC scenario by Lynne Hardy. Here he is in short depicted as a local God who must be kept content by sacrifing a whole heap of rats. I think there is also a Green Man legend in parts of the states where he is some kind of Big Foot. AND True Detective (the good one) comes to mind as well, where there is a story of a green man with leaves for ears who chases young girls through the woods. Its a pretty cool aesthetic!

James D

Now you have covered Men, may I suggest Mark Jenkin's Enys Men (2023)? It's (probably) a ghost story. It's definitely weird. I left thinking 'that's the first movie I ever saw in theatrical release that could have just as easily been at home being shown in gallery space'. If that sounds like a turn off I don't mean it to. Like Men, you need to be in the right mood for it, not to feel bored and let it wash over you. Fortunately it caught me in the right mood.

MR ZEEL

I find that sometimes Alex Garland is a good director, (Annihilation and parts of Civil War) sometimes incoherent, clumsy and not as smart as he is trying to advertise. Men was kinda half way tween his best and worst to me. I enjoyed the horrific/ funny / end section, and the multiple "men " worked. I totally agree that it was very "league of gentlemen". Please consider a study relating to -Robert Holdstock, who did some outstanding folk/woodland horror stuff in his Ryhope Wood series. Here is a list of those (from Wikipedia)- Mythago Wood Lavondyss The Bone Forest, a novella and short story collection The Hollowing Merlin's Wood, a novel and two short stories (only published in the UK) Gate of Ivory, Gate of Horn Avilion. They are all worth reading. The novels are not that long. And there are some great short stories that develop the themes and ideas he was working with relating to "mythagos" which are solid , living beings that are emanations of mythic,,ancient group consciousness of the people that inhabit The British Isles, (or in other places, the "Matter" of the history/myth of that place). The " Men" in "Men" are really similar to mythagoes, i wonder if Garland has any influence from Holdstock? Thanks for yet another thoughtful and balanced study guyz!

MR ZEEL

Also Jessie Buckley is always great. Do I remember she did a great turn as a murderer in Fargo?

Jeffrey Kahrs

The Changeling is also my favorite ghost story. Oddly, I was recounting the opening when discussing Midsommer which also starts with maybe the worst event in the film.

Allison Albright

Hey PS - as others have me tioned here the Changeling is a great movie. Any chance you guys might cover it on a future extra credit episode?

Navigantor

Excited you're finally looking at Borges next time! "There are More Things" is of course a direct tribute to Lovecraft but for a future episode I'd suggest Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius as possibly Borges' most Lovecraftian work.

It's a Ghost.

The scene at the start of Midsommar might be the worst event I've ever seen in a film! I think the reason the scene hits me so hard is because it's so horrible and *so real*. Ultimately I do think there's a supernatural component to the scene, but there also doesn't have to be one for it to be so absolutely horrible.

Stacy Schumacher

Agreed that Enys Men was a very atmospheric ghost story. It was unsettling, but I think the right mood is totally needed. The mood being patience, for the most part, and willingness to just accept the vibes.

Stacy Schumacher

One big takeaway I have after this episode is that Chris hasn't seen Sunshine!? Gotta move that one up the list - It's one of my favorite horror-sci fi movies, with some really great performances. As for Men, I'm glad you covered it, and I think you had some great discussion of the film's themes. I similarly thought the early scenes with the Green Man were terrifying. Something about that quiet still natural scenery and then suddenly a figure appearing is unnerving, that figure running towards you is just horror. Even worse - the scene in the yard, under the apple tree, when the lights went out. Waaaay scarier than the ending, which I just watched amused or dumbfounded. Did not see that coming. But I think I preferred that strange dream-like scenario to something that was a more direct or traditional horror ending.

Jeffrey Kahrs

Right. That's the thing. How can I be horrified by anything after experiencing that? I love when Horror does that

It's a Ghost.

Just read "Tlön, Uqbar, Orbius Tertius" and really enjoyed it. So thanks for the recommendation! Also, I can definitely imagine Lovecraft liking it too.

Robert Curtin

Far too late to have this read on a show, but I just wanted to comment on the Adam and Eve scapegoat perspective: The interpretation of Eve as a literary function used to be a source of blame is an extremely common interpretation, and is unfortunately acted on by many religious groups. But if you read those chapters, it really is Adam's fault, and they play this game of Adam throwing Eve under the bus, saying, "This woman that you gave me, handed me the fruit," and she in turn says, "The serpent told me to do it," and the serpent gets punished for instigating. But Adam was complicit in the act as well: God spoke directly to him and told him not to eat of the tree, and he should have said something or done something. He allowed it to happen and is absolutely at fault, and I think most people gloss over that fact, and simply focus on Eve as someone to be blamed. And Adam's reaction indicates he probably allowed her to test the limits of what the punishment would be, trying to save his own skin.