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Supernatural - 4x1 "Lazarus Rising" Rewatch (Patreon)

Published:
2024-05-20 08:12:49
Edited:
2025-06-22 02:15:06
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Files

Lazarus Rising - Rewatch.mp4

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Comments

BunkerGirl

Shelley, I hope you had a great vacation week! You deserve it. =) I was so ridiculously excited to rewatch this episode with you, because of course, CAS! It was my birthday on May 18th (I share a birthday with Jack) =) So this is a lovely belated bday gift to me haha. I am writing this before watching your reaction, so I'm sure I'll definitely be back with a longer comment after I finish watching. lol Woo-hooo.... #Destiel begins.... <3

BunkerGirl

Shelley, (and everyone else too lol)...really quick comment after watching your intro, if you haven't yet watched Bob Wess' YT video series I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend it. He does an excellent breakdown of Cas and Dean;s relationship season by season (using clips from the show to demonstrate exactly what he is talking about), and how he views it as things happen... and makes a LOT of excellent points. He is very logical about it and even admits when he doesn't think things are meant the way some shippers take it. He even leads off by stating he personally doesn't think Destiel was made fully canon in the show-- but does think it is canon on cas's side at least. It is called Bi-Man Dissects Destiel in Supernatural. It is long, but is broken up into I think 17 parts...and trust me, they are all good and well worth watching. He works in the TV film industry (not on SPN) and has a LOT of really interesting behind the scenes knowledge of why certain things may have been handled the way they were as well. He starts off by freely admitting that when he starting watching SPN it was several years after it had already been airing, and he had heard all about the big fandom ship war over it, and that he actually went into it thinking... it's probably not really there.... People tend to ship characters with no real textual reason to do so. Then he watched... and watched some more... and backed right out of that thought process and leaped onboard the Destiel ship. lol Actually I would recommend it to ANYONE to watch... even if you don't ship them. It may open your eyes a bit to see how some of us see things or at least help understand better why so many of us DO. I feel he presents his views in a respectful manner that even if you don't ship them, is an interesting journey through the ups and downs of how their relationship grows--and how much they mean to each other, and the important lessons they learn from each other. I hope it is okay to include this link, let me know if not and I will remove it. This is the link to part 1 of the series. https://youtu.be/_0jIW95cOeg?si=_YkYQ8MB19Nrd9RI

Jay

Sam says he's in Pontiac, Illinois because he's on the track of some demons, who are there (presumably) because of the weird burst of energy round Dean's grave. Why Sammy buried Dean there when Dean died in New Harmony, Indiana is another question. Also Cas grabs Jimmy for his vessel because he lives nearby (never mind that angels can fly anywhere instantly). Jimmy is the one 'special' human we know can hear Cas's true voice by the way. Must have been so disappointing for Cas to discover Dean couldn't!

BunkerGirl

First, apologies because this will be long lol. Season 4 is my favorite too, so I will probably have diarrhea of the typing finger for each s4 ep. Lol Regarding who can hear Cas's true voice, Jimmy could. We see that in The Rapture. (And jimmy does say in that ep that he is from Pontiac IL--where Dean was resurrected.) I think Dean not being able to understand him is what led Cas to take a human vessel, so he could communicate with Dean. Although the fact that this all happens on Dean's first day back seems to not match up time wise with the length of time Cas communicated with Jimmy before possessing him--from the flashbacks it somehow seemed like days. *Oh, about Sam getting there so quickly following the demons... I always rationalize it in my head that the demons were aware of the war in hell when Cas fought (along with other angels) to rescue Dean from hell (because remember Cas tells Dean in On the Head of a Pin that they waged war in hell and many angels died during it...) so I think Ruby probably knew that was happening, and knew if they DID succeed in rescuing Dean's soul it would be taken to where he was buried.) That's my own little head canon on it anyway. But of course that is just me guessing. Odd side note... but Sam's shirt at the beginning of the ep is so different than what he normally wears the rest of the time. I wonder if that somehow meant something?? Its white with a really pale red pattern .. could that be a hint to Ruby?? (A stretch i know, it just always stood out to me because how its completely different from Sams usual style.) I found it a bit odd that Dean is totally okay w seeing Pam who is a psychic (As well as Missouri in earlier season), yet his first question alone in Baby w Sam is " So have you been using your freaky ESP stuff?" (Esp given he doesn't yet know that Sam has demon blood in him from Azazel bleeding into his mouth as a baby, OR that he is drinking demon blood now from Ruby.) So at this point, he just thinks they are random psychic visions. The fact that Dean slapped that demon TWICE like that and she just sat there and took it (as did all the other demons in the diner) really does show just how scared the demons were about what was going on. The conversation between Ruby and Sam in the diner was so well done. Ruby plays it perfectly to make it seem like she is really there for Sam (and worried about not wanting to ruin his relationship with Dean.) I admit I do prefer Katie Cassidy's Ruby, but I really like Gen as a person so its all good lol. And the best part of the episode imho... That badass entrance Cas makes!! So freaking good. 🙂 Cas and Dean have AMAZING chemistry from their very first words and interaction. And how Cas just looks into him and KNOWS, "You don't think you deserve to be saved ." It wasn't a question ... It was a statement of fact. Just sooo good. And yes, I agree Cas won the episode for sure. Those barn doors flew open and my life changed forever. (And so did Dean's.) 💙💚

Vel

Non-shipper here, I've been watching SPN since S4, and been active in the fandom since S5/6. Definitely all for shipping whatever you choose to. I'm all for people having their own HC as well, and living in your own bubble if it makes you happy. From my perspective, and that of many friends who also fall into the non-shipper category, it has nothing to do with whether you see it or not and it also most definitely has nothing to do with understanding why you do ship it. The show literally gave shout outs to all the ships, not just one - and those are the facts. So to deny the existence of either of the two major ships on the show is willful ignorance, IMO. It's the walls of text with subjective meta that's only serves to validate fanon as canon, it's claiming that the intent was motivated by certain subtext and is sending secret messages, it's the constant narrative that the show was homophobic because destiel wasn't canonized when the show made huge strides to do better and gave many examples of all kinds of representation, it's the bad behavior of the fans and the bad behavior of Misha himself sexually harassing Jensen behind his back to make fans happy and the harassment of the cast, producers, writers, showrunners (of multiple shows - not just SPN...I recall Neil Gaiman and William Shatner both being rather unhappy about being brought into the conversation). Those are just a few examples of why some of the fandom was soured on destiel. It was inescapable - and not in a fun or cute way. People not only wouldn't just love what they love and share that with their communities, they now were invading other spaces and causing strife in other parts of the fandom where people also wanted to just enjoy their own space. Fun fact: I used to be a hardcore Cass girl. My first SPN merch was Cass related, and my first fandom friends were destiel shippers. Sadly, they were awful human beings. The hardest part for me in dealing with all of this is the reactors space. A lot of very biased people have showed up in the comments. I'm not going to sit here and claim that I haven't caused issues myself...lol. However, my motivation was not to be rude or turn this into some kind of ship war. It was always to give Shelley all the information available so she could make up her own mind. And the more info she had, the better. If she only hears from one side of the fandom and only gets one perspective, then we are all doing her a huge disservice IMO.

rose mnor

About the timeline of Cas getting his vessel and meeting Dean in the barn: If it's alright I would like to posit a theory (of when Cas took Jimmy as a vessel) taken from my earlier post - which was my very first comment posting on Shelley's Patreon channel - as below (copy/paste and edited for clarity):- The timeline IS weird because, in my opinion, it would appear that Cas didn't go looking for a vessel until after his voice bursting mirrors in Dean's hotel room, and that was the same night Dean and Cas met. But it would be a blink of an eye for Cas to go back in time, like in In The Beginning, and start working on Jimmy over a week or so, so that Jimmy will be ready to consent to him and then he can go back to when Dean and Bobby's attempt to summon him. I remembered reading a fan forum years ago, someone questioned the timeline of when Cas took Jimmy as a vessel since he appeared in Lazarus Rising already possessing Jimmy not long after Dean woke up. And we saw in The Rapture 4.20, that he had to ask Jimmy to prove his faith first. So that probably took a few days as we saw Jimmy change clothes and Amelia had some shopping done, so several days must have passed after he first contacted Jimmy when he woke in front of the frizzy TV. [In The Rapture 4.20] Jimmy seemed to be a standup, religious, stable, and dependable guy. The impression that was gleaned from when he woke up by the fritzing TV, to putting his hand in the boiling water in the pan, to having to take pills which might indicate that he had to see a doctor and to finally be threatened by Amelia to take Claire to her grandparents - some time or more days than a few might have lapsed. Amelia seemed to be so frustrated by Jimmy’s conviction that he was special, and this also might indicate that a more intense discourse or argument had happened between them. So, tl;dr, time travel by Cas.

BunkerGirl

@vel I totally respect your opinion and despise the hate and bad behavior I've seen from people on both sides... same as how some Jared fans are awful to Jensen and vice versa. It is just sad. I don't think the actors would want fans treating each other that way either. I have always tried to remain respectful to those who don't ship them, though I'm sure there are probably times I failed at that. I didn't mean to start anything with the comment, and apologize if I offended you or anyone else by it. I honestly just brought up the video series because it was very well done and presented in a way that I don't think is trying to put anyone down. Even if you don't personally ship them, it does a great job of examining the complexities and different stages of their relationship and what they mean to each other. Again, I AM honestly sorry if I in any way upset you or hurt your feelings. I did not mean to at all. I've always enjoyed your thoughts and discussions here on Shelley's page. Much love. <3

BunkerGirl

@rose oooohhhh that actually makes perfect sense!!! Thank you for sharing. I'm going to adopt your head canon for how it worked! =)

Kit

Quick comment after watching the intro: I am SO here for you exploring and breaking down the details and subtext (and text) of destiel! I so wanna hear all your thoughts about this, please don’t hold anything back just to not upset people!

rose mnor

About Sam using demon blood to pull demons from their meat suits, for the longest time, I have the opinion that exorcising them would lead to the same result - if the host was alive, saying the exorcism is saving the host too, just with a bit more effort into the work, ie. fighting with the demon while doing it. (imo it would mean a whole bunch better than drinking demon blood - eww). So much so that it took me out a little bit of enjoying this 'drinking demon blood' of Sam's plot arc. Then, after countless rewatch, it clicked for me - Sam mentioned that he can KILL demons to Alistair, in On the Head of a Pin. This means, that when he pulled the demon's smoke out by using his demon blood power, the demon could be killed too - that was my takeaway from that particular scene. If he exorcises them, they only go back to hell and can be back later on, like Meg in S2. But this reveal is not in earlier episodes, in a way the writers were cheating a little bit. They kept this plot twist until that particular episode with Alistair, in my opinion. Also, canon then expanded that demons can injure/kill the host right before exorcism or while smoking out of its body - in S10 First Born & S12 the Asa Fox episode - so then Sam's arc made a lot of sense to me after the fact, and I can continue to enjoy S4.

Purple Nurple

You explaining at the beginning about liking Sam as well as shipping Dean and Cas... girl, welcome to the online fandom lol. I feel like me and some friends are always going 'I like them all' whether we ship Dean and Cas or not lol. I really don't like that aspect of the fandom of 'them vs us'.

BunkerGirl

I don't think Sam could kill demons before that scene with Alistair, could he?.... I took Sam's comment to mean that it was only THEN that he was strong enough to kill. (Alistair said to Sam, "Go ahead. Send me back to hell, if you can." And Sam responded, "I'm stronger than that now. Now I can kill." And we know this was right after he got a nice big dose of demon blood from Ruby.) Before that, I thought when he used his powers he was just sending them back to hell. Because I remember a scene where a demon tells Sam to go to hell, and Sam replies, "Funny, I was just about to say the same to you." and then uses his powers to exorcise it. The way Sam even crunched up his hand into a fist when killing A was different than how he held his hand to simply exorcise other demons. I thought the only demons Sam has killed by using his abilities were Alistair and Lilith, were there others I'm not remembering?

BunkerGirl

I'm obviously a shipper, yet I couldn't agree more! I love them all. It makes me so sad that too many in the fandom just can't play nice and all get along. I mean, we all obviously love the show... let people love whatever they love about it. Thankfully most of the lovely folks here on Shelley's page seem to try to remain respectful of each other's viewpoints, and we can all have civil discussions about different topics (not just about shipping) and still get along. I think it really demonstrates the fact that Shelley herself promotes kindness and respecting others.

rose mnor

I think Samhain, but I'm not 100% sure, just that it was such an effort on Sam for that one. Anyway, you are right - what I meant was, that he was on his way up the ladder to THAT level, it just takes time. That was Sam's end game ultimately - to be able to kill demons when pulling them. It just so happened that him powerful enough to kill Alistair and Lillith, was only towards the end of the season. However to the audience, his reasons for doing so along the way, can also be done via exorcism - which was why I eventually was not squicked out by that arc - because the reveal at the end, justifies the means, so to speak - i.e. killing the demon vs sending them to hell, while on the way to get to that level. If he could be powered up earlier, he could just pull the demon smoke out and at the same time kill them left and right without breaking a sweat, lol.

BunkerGirl

Got it!! I understand what you mean now. Sorry for being slow on the uptake lol. And yes! I believe you are correct that he killed Samhain with them as well. I couldn't remember if he killed him or sent him back.

BunkerGirl

Some really cool trivia about this episode that I didn't notice or know on my first watch (courtesy of SuperWiki).... 1) At the start of the episode with Dean in Hell, you can see shadows descend over his face just before he wakes up in his coffin.-- Suggesting that is the moment that Castiel pulled him out of Hell. ... 2) As Dean is pouring salt on the windowsill of the gas station, the word 'WING' can be seen stenciled on the outside wall (part of the word 'TOWING'). This can be seen as possible foreshadowing as the events in the gas station are eventually revealed to be Castiel trying to communicate with Dean. ... 3) Jensen has said that the "dirt" when he is buried was made of crushed Oreos. ...4) The phrase Castiel says to Dean, "We have work for you," echoes the phrase "We got work to do," spoken by Sam at the end of 1.01 Pilot, and by Dean at the end of 2.22 All Hell Breaks Loose: Part Two. .... 5) Similar to how casting hid that they were casting for an angel (and how Misha originally thought he was auditioning for the role of a demon) to keep the news from getting out ahead of time, When Genevieve Cortese was cast, Kripke issued a statement saying she would be playing "a small town waitress named Kristy who gets romantically involved with Sam sometime after Dean’s death." Dean was also not named in the casting sides, although a character called Guy appeared, in order to keep the manner of Dean's reappearance a secret.

rose mnor

Also, Mark Pellegrino was in the running to play Castiel but Misha won the role ... MP then was cast as Lucifer in S5 without auditioning. Just imagine MP as Cas, I cannot fathom it at all lol ... ETA source: ComicCon 2009 transcript Via link: https://www.scriptphd.com/?p=543 Eric Kripke: He is currently shooting episodes 1 and 3 [Season 5], and then won’t see him for a while. I know he’s on Lost and bad-ass as Jacob. He was actually in the running for Castiel—it was between Misha and Mark, and they were both so great, but Misha squeaked by. But we always loved Mark and remembered him, so went right to him when the part of Lucifer came about.

BunkerGirl

omg I never knew that one!!! I can't even imagine him as Cas lol

BexFangirl

I watched a 15x20 reaction just yesterday, so I really needed this. Very happy you're back, hope you enjoyed your vacation.

BexFangirl

I can't imagine that Cas would have become as big a character as he did with Misha playing him

Hasnaa

Loved this reaction, I love all team free will, I am so excited for all the destiel shipping discussion

AdoptDontShopPets

Unfortunately Patreon won’t let me expand to read your full comment (though I can expand all your other comments 🤷🏻‍♀️) so this is a reply to the first half of your comment. The Bob Wess videos are well done. Since Shelley has only seen things once, I wonder if she should wait until after finishing her rewatch, to watch his videos. That way she can rediscover things on her own during the rewatch and then do a deep dive of Bob videos afterwards.

BunkerGirl

@adoptdontshoppets ooohhh that's probably smart!! TY! =)

rose mnor

@BunkerGirl Re - your statement - "He even leads off by stating he personally doesn't think Destiel was made fully canon in the show-- but does think it is canon on cas's side at least." (About Bob Wess' series of videos deep-diving into Destiel from the perspectives of a bi man). *Sigh* This link is his Season 12 video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pGtaJED9kI&list=PLyHnKKZMOn4d25tzEjoYCk6xViblBdlBZ&index=12 The 24.15 min mark is the significant part, imo. ... at that mark at the end of the video, he says the following [taken from a tumblr post, paraphrased and condensed for clarity]: “here’s the thing guys. this season is the season where it was acknowledged in the writers' room, and they decided that they wanted to move forward with it and act on it.” He explains that during this season, Warner Brothers began to conduct market research in regard to Dean’s sexuality and how the characters of Dean and Cas were viewed. In the end, they probably couldn’t go through with it because they would lose too many viewers to get picked up for season 14 if they went ahead with it in season 13. ... but he also explains that “market research isn’t done in a vacuum. If this showrunner didn’t want to write these characters together, if the actors weren’t going to be willing to play these characters that way, then there is no need to conduct market research. it wouldn’t have been done. [...] Season 12 was very likely specifically written as a setup for Destiel to finally click into place. and the compromise was leaving it as subtext [...] and from here on I want you to take it as AS CLOSE AS CANON AS THE NETWORK WOULD ALLOW.” /end Agreed with you that Bob's views on Destiel seem very balanced. He is very articulate, his words are very sane and logical. And why Dabb, I think he wanted it, and wrote a lot more than we got, but kept getting roadblocks. Numerous omitted scenes that were Destiel adjacent are hard proof of his efforts. He was going to try to give us but ... still cannot forgive him for 15.20 though, lol.

Karen Gauck

I've only watched the opening comments, but I'll say as a non-shipper, who doesn't see Destiel at all, I mean I see Cas' confession as romantic just nothing else, this is your channel and more specifically your Patreon. Feel free to say what you want. I think we all know you ship it by now. 😂 if you want to wear your shipping hat in your post episode thoughts, that might be nice, but don't feel like you need to hold back during the episode. I'll also never understand thinking people can't like all of the characters. I have my Dean preference, but I still like all of Team Free Will.

Kyra Sun

I was so excited to watch this! And can’t wait for you to go through this season!!!

Vel

Claire could hear Castiel's voice too from what I can remember. She DID consent to be used as a vessel.

Vel

Oh gosh...no, I'm not offended Bunker Girl. No apologies necessary! I totally respect that people have the right to think and feel what they so choose to. It's when it bleeds out into the world at large and causes problems for people who want nothing to do with it is when I would take issue. It's also pretending that HC are reality and intentional without actual proof. But I digress, I'm not going to pretend that destiel or wincest wasn't a thing. Just not MY thing.

BunkerGirl

I'm not sure if you took my comment to mean that Bob Wess doesn't think Dean loved Cas. He does. What he leads off with in his first video is that he doesn't think the show "officially" made it canon on Dean's side. I personally think Dean loved Cas also. I wish the show, or network, or whoever didn't think they should put it on screen officially... just stood up and followed through and said YES it is there. No subtext needed. lol I think Wess really presents a wonderful analysis of them and their relationship journey. I think I have watched the entire thing like 4 times, it is just that good.

Elisia

Gadreel's true vessel (the guy he possesses before and after Sam) is one of the special people who can hear and see angel's true forms, fun fact.

Jay

Yes this is a great Jimmy theory! The alternative is that Cas has lined up a potential vessel/s 'just in case', which now seems much sillier

Jay

not just 'wing' but also 'no smoke' (from no smoking) - so it's something with wings, and not a demon

Karen Gauck

Ah, but see, I think Dean loves Cas, but I don't think he was in love with Cas. I would've actually been annoyed if they'd have suddenly said he did because I don't think there is anything in the show that validates that and would've come out of left field. The up for interpretation should allow everyone to believe what they believe.

Hasnaa

I guess jimmy is one of those special people who can hear angels, I am not sure if it's tied to some bloodline or if your degree of faith is also a factor