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I fear I might’ve shielded y’all from Eleanor’s more unpleasant qualities, and that’s because I really like Eleanor and I want y’all to like her too. But in truth, well…..Ellie is kinda shitty sometimes. :/

As might be expected to someone who was married to Merry Meadowsweet for 2 decades- while Maple just sorta tolerates her relationship with Merry, Eleanor thrived within her life with her former husband, and that’s because she’s a lot like him. Eleanor is ambitious, ruthless, and entirely self-assured, using her religion as a means to justify her every action, good and bad. She loved being the church’s First Lady because of the luxury and authority it afforded her. While she is kind and compassionate, it is often couched in her religious beliefs, with Eleanor believing that one simply can NOT be a good person without god. Worse yet, during her time with Merry, her kindness was largely conditional, with the end goal of recruiting people to the church and helping them see the way, the light, and the truth ✨

Eleanor was aggressively homophobic and contributed heavily to her children’s feelings of alienation and loneliness. No argument they could muster was enough to sway her convinction. Post-divorce, still reeling with her disgust and fury at Merry’s sexual immorality, she told Toffee point-blank that she would never accept a queer as a son, leading him to suppress himself and seek comfort in places he shouldn’t have. The only reason Eleanor changed was because her dogmatic religious fervor ultimately blew up in her face. When Toffee’s secret affair with Don inevitably collapses, he spins out of control, landing comatose in the hospital from a near-fatal case of alcohol poisoning. This would be the worst night of Eleanor’s life, made worse by the ambiguity on whether or not it was an accident. Toffee will not elaborate- won’t even look her in the eye- and Eleanor realizes that something has to give.

So Eleanor changes. She becomes kinder, more compassionate, more tolerant- letting go of her anger at Merry, at the church, and at herself. She spares Topher of the queerphobia she aimed at Toffee, and is instead gingerly supportive when he comes out as trans. She apologizes to Toffee, and they spend a long time rebuilding their lost bond. In the end, she and her sons come out of the divorce as a restored, unbreakable family of three.

All this said….we all know the saying about teaching an old dog new tricks. Eleanor is old-school, and she is still devout, and that means that her response to most problems is “pray”. In psychological terms, this is called “spiritual bypassing”, and it is a defense mechanism that allows Eleanor to gloss over issues while believing she’s promoting harmony and faith. For a long time she views Topher’s atheism as a personal insult and didn’t speak to him for months upon discovering it. Even now, she subtly (or in this case, unsubtly) tries to push him toward faith as a solution, which Topher of course resents, as so many of his problems (anxiety, depression, mood swings) are the direct result of religious trauma. Eleanor struggles to be tolerant of other religions, perceives most struggles as trials from god, and insists on unflinching positivity and blind faith. Topher finds it unhelpful, as does Toffee, to an extent (Ellie gets along well with his husband Bob, buuuuut she sometimes tries to evangelize to Bob and it makes everyone uncomfortable). Eleanor’s faith even harms herself, as she frequently denies her less pleasant emotions, insisting that everything is fine when things are clearly not. Eleanor isn’t about to take pills or see a therapist, she’s gonna raw-dog her trauma and mental issues the way the good lord intended! 😤

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Comments

Sorceringing

i love that ellie is complicated bc it makes sense she'll still have unpleasant aspects to her!! it makes her more real!

Rumpeltyltskyn

Ooh this makes her and Merry make SO much more sense. I love these layers peeled back on Eleanor.

WAr

I actually love seeing this side of her! Not that I love what it actually is, but I feel like it really makes sense why her marriage with Merry worked so well. Plus I love Eleanor, but it would be pretty unusual to just do a complete 180 to super mom after the divorce. Plus I love complicated relationships with parents in stories— merry’s relationships with his sons isn’t complicated because it’s pretty much non existent. But this!! This is fun

Lammergayier

Is Ellie still religious by the time she begins her relationship with Neith? Or does she take a step back from it? I appreciate how different characters of yours have different approaches to religion. Like you have Toffee who was able to reconcile his queerness with his faith, and Topher who found the best choice for him was to walk away from it. As somebody who has friends that have taken both approaches, I think it's important to remind folks that there really isn't a Wrong way to navigate religion as a queer person as long as you're being true to yourself (and also, y'know. Not being a dick to others)

WAr

Ope sorry for a second comment but also I have two questions! 1) idk why but this new side of her makes me wonder if she’d ever been friends with Sunny’s mom Biscuit, seems like they’d probably get along decently well. 2) when toffee had his incident at the hospital , did only his mother come? Did his dad come? Did Eleanor and merry have any kind of discussion about it?

lopoddity

Toffee: Mom, would you agree that toxic masculinity is an observable social phenomenon? Eleanor: Oh, of course! They were talking about it on public radio the other day. That's why yer dad acts the way he does, innit? Throwin' his weight around, tryin' to act like a big tough man, tryna mold you in his image. It's just plain hurtful is what it is, an' I'm sorry I didn't shield you from it growin'up. :( Toffee: ...Would you agree that women are capable of perpetuating toxic masculinity? Eleanor: 'Course not, women got nothin to do with all that foolishness. 😌 Now uncross yer legs darlin', you look like a sissy when you sit like that

PrairieGhosted

Does her faith come up with her relationship with Neith? I know it takes place quite a bit after Merry & the fallout of her divorce + working through and repairing her relationship with her sons. I can imagine it took her a long while to process her own relationship w queerness given all this . Was Eleanor raised by a very religious family herself , or did she get caught up in the dogma more as she was one of the stars at the church? I realized we know a bit more abt where Merry started than Eleanor did ! Also the way u write her is so real!!! She reminds me so much of a few family members I have , I've never heard the term "spiritual bypassing" till now but omg thank u for making me aware of it so I can name the pattern.

DorkRaptor

Oh boy, this hits home. As a former catholic, I understand the pain of religious trauma. My grandma used to tell us that she’d rather her grandchildren go to heaven than ever be happy in this lifetime. This would follow her talks about hell and damnation that still freak me out to this day. All I want to be is a happy agnostic, but religious shit sticks with you. Luckily, my husband is atheist and he’s helping deprogram me. I hope Topher was able to heal from his religious trauma, too.

Sorceringing

i adore u old school feminist ellie.... 😭💜

lopoddity

Yes. It's actually a point of conflict between them, because while Eleanor is furry Evangelist/Southern Baptist, Neith is loosely furry Muslim. Eleanor has never had exposure to Neith’s faith beyond boogeyman-type propaganda her church fed her, so she gets spooked and probably says some ignorant things to Neith, which Neith of course doesn't take well. Eleanor didn't expect to be challenged on her intolerance and gets mad and probably doesn't talk to Neith for a while, but uuuuuultimately apologizes and ends up learning more about religions beyond her own

SleepyTimeBee

Oh goodness! This reminds me of so my

SleepyTimeBee

Oh goodness! This reminds me of so many Christian’s I know. So well written and insightful as always 👏 i could feel everyone’s pain.

Robo87

I damn near disassociated seeing this. One of my sisters is still in her religious cult (the Catholic Church) and yeah….let’s just say our relationship is strained at best but at least she’s more careful about preaching to me after I crashed out on her after a conversation very similar to this “It’s all in your head” NO FUCKING SHIT I HAVE A MENTAL DISORDER DO YOU THINK I HAVE PTSD IN MY PANCREAS 😤 That being said regarding Eleanor…the way I see it is I can hate and judge who you were before, but I can extend my own form of grace and forgiveness if you honestly make the effort to BE forgiven and try to be a better person

MiyaLaFlorDorada

No because you don't understand this makes me adore her more in the sense of her complexity as a person. Using religion as a shield with everything and not believe in medicine or treatment for mental health issues? Ohhh my darling now we are talking business! As a latina you have no idea how much this speaks to me, religion (catholicism) is a big thing in our culture, I was raise very religious and ironically my dad didn't give me religious trauma it was the rest of the church experience 😐 Ellie remains me so much to my dad in the sense of those imperfect people with good intentions but stubborn in their ways. My dad never teach me the wrath of God, that everything is a sin or hate, instead it was love, compassion, care and second chances. Still... I could see how this mixed with his other issues hurt him and me in some ways, he loves his family but this "we are family, a good catholic do this, etc" makes him a little bit of a "fixer" in his family, and I notice how they without intentions tend to take advantage of his kindness A LOT, the same with him not saying what he really thinks or never give his valid opinion in some messy situations cuz we don't do that, talking about the past just bring trouble and old pain, so I did have my pair of discussions with him, because my boundaries aren't selfishness or too much, maybe he make himself too little and needs to put more limits, but again he would NEVER admit he's wrong or apologize, he would change is aptitude and say sorry with actions cuz as he says "everyone can talk and make promises, but you must act instead of just talk, and then you are actually showing what you mean" vulnerability is the generation trauma of my dad's family and again it's a miracle he is kinda the most stable of that low key chill introvert dysfunction family dynamic. He is the two faces of religion but not because hate is the stubborness of seeing the hypocrisy? Like for example he's not an ally per say but he respects all people no matter how they present, but at the same times also thinks that this gender talk is woke bullshit and is only two genders and thinks that if they do thing with the rules then maybe they wouldn't get in troubles, but also thinks that trans hate is freaking wanste of time cuz "trans people just want to life their life wtf those so called family defenders creeps care about other people genitals, men would attack others no matter the place, since when a sign have stopped a r$pist?" Also that hating someone just because it's queer and teaching your kid that is horrible and if a parent kick out their kids for that, they don't deserve to be parents at all. He's pro marriage no matter the gender but also since in the bible is treated as a sin, soooo the church have the right to negate marriage in there and negate communion to queer people... Yeah daddy I love you but that's the most hypocrite thing I ever heard, and the funny thing is not that he's oppose is that "the rules say this so it is like that and we have done it this way since forever, it's tradicion we can't change just to make exceptions" type of mentally? But also is unapologetic pro "pedo that happens to be priest/nun deserve hell and should be in jail" and "religion can't cure mental illnesses, people need help, doctors and pills not judgment" It's interesting because like my dad, many people use religion as a way to cope, my dad is very anxious and introvert person and his childhood wasn't easy at all so I think his faith is basically what help him to overcome the toughest times, and even in all the flaws, I admit I miss my faith, I miss believe in something, cuz life it's hard, but even so I can't just not see all the problems you know?

Jay Martinez

My parents 100% believed mental illness was fake. Even I did at one point. My mom is still Catholic but she’s more tolerant now of my queerness, atheism, and mental stuff. 😭

lopoddity

Yep, Merry came to the hospital, Eleanor was just there first. She was the one to call him, and he showed up and they set aside their hatred to cling to each other and pray that their son would wake up. I'm gonna be brief because this is a story that I wanna get into at a later date, but basically the way Merry responds to Toffee’s incident makes Eleanor realize that she DOESN'T want to behave in the same way. Toffee scared her very badly, she CAN'T sweep the whole thing aside (it COULDN'T have been her god's will that her son almost died....which means the blame must lie on her and Merry's shoulder's). She is willing to change to better meet her son's needs, which is why she is still in her children's lives and Merry is not.

ummhallelujah

This reminds me of those horrible tiktoks "antidepressants that actually work" and it's stuff like hugging your mom and reading the bible. Like no, I can assure you my pharmaceuticals very much work LMAO

lopoddity

Thanks! :3 Eleanor grew up in a loooooosely religious household. She only really went to church on major holidays, or for funerals. She latched onto church when she met Merry, and her belief was only reinforced by her financial and social success within the church. Ellie believes in prosperity gospel, that she earned her wealth by being devout, and that her parents were poor because they were "lazy" about properly serving god. She conveniently ignores her own late grandmother, who was incredibly devout and preached on street corners, yet died broke from preventable illness that she prayed to god to cure because she couldn't afford medical care. Eleanor is very fixated on money and status, and religion is a good way to ensure wealth and status, so she is fixated on religion as well.

lopoddity

This is pretty much inspired by my mom, who recently told me i didn't need meds or therapy, i needed jesus. And also that depression isn't real. This was after I'd bought her lunch and paid for her expensive fancy make-up, so. Salt in the wound, lol. Fun fact: my mental issues are very much informed by my religious trauma, so not only was it invalidating and hurtful, it was just plain insulting. My community is ridiculously dismissive toward mental health and insists on jesus as a cure-all, but uhhhh jesus ain't doin much about all that poverty and generational trauma and abuse and institutional racism. No shade at religious people but i feel that hoping for a god to save us is maybe why the world is the way that it is. Nothing wrong with trying out actual solutions, maybe hugging mom or reading a bible helps some people but that doesn't mean antidepressants are not a valid means of treating mental health

Res Hound

I'd be interested to hear how she went from kissing Neith on stage to be aggressively homophobic, to later being involved with Neith.

Haley Riggs

Well I suppose growth can be a very long and slow and strange process can’t it Ellie?

Emily Lemur

Eleanor is still as lovable as ever- especially with these imperfections. Like I’ve absolutely met this person before. She’s real, her emotions and struggles are real and, sadly, her response is all too natural. Shes grown but that growth never truly stops!

lopoddity

Oh that's easy. Her stage smooch with Neith was just uh, two girls messing around. Not anything serious. Not REAL degeneracy, like the queers get up to. She had some internalized sexism going on where she saw sapphic relationships as nowhere near as legitimate as m/m ones, and considered them to only be done by ugly or confused women looking to rebel against their parents. :) Ellie, like many baby boomers, had a looooot of discomfort around the idea of two men "in love", and she liked that she could use her faith to make her knee-jerk disgust/bigotry sound justified. As the fight for gay rights marched on, she, Merry, and the church became more outwardly homophobic to prevent those gross queers from corrupting the children! She is forced to confront her homophobia when she discovers she is actively causing harm to her children. Ellie had to weigh her "values" vs her kids, and she picked her kids. A sad but true fact is, had she still been married to Merry, and had the unflinching support of the church, Eleanor might not have made the same choice, might’ve driven her children off and retreated into an increasingly intolerant religious echo chamber. :( Or maybe not! But probably. :( Anyway, she chose her kids, and came to focus more on the compassion and tolerance part of her faith over the years. As for Neith....look, god wouldn't have thrown a buff jaguar babe at Ellie if he didn't want her to get her freak on. Who is she to argue with the will of the almighty

lopoddity

It's funny how my family insists I need religion to fix me, all while I use my religious background as thematic window-dressing for stories about gay trans furries fucking

PrairieGhosted

This makes me wonder bc what we have seen of her younger & how she met Merry was her trying to gain as much independence & self reliance (thru going to law school - obv that can b a pathway to a very well paying job) & then gets offered the financial & status of being a star preacher thru her partnership w Merry, when she leaves him, what does she do ? Did Eva get her enough from the divorce she hasn't had to work since ? Has she gone back to pursue a law degree ? Does she earn residuals on things she's sang in & she still has a following from her own gospel seperate from Merry? Ig I'm just curious bc she is so proactively part of the success of Merrys church that I wonder where that energy goes to when she doesn't have the platform of her old congregation & if the craving of having a platform or making lots of money is specifically part of what she had to confront to change ?

Gleeman and Artist

Super healing to write queer furry stories using a religious background imo

Gleeman and Artist

Ugh yeah I heard this preached so much growing up in the church. The god can heal you of your depression if you just believe hard enough! Know way too many preachers who stand up and say that you shouldn't be in therapy or on meds. Really started to feel like my mental illness was a punishment for not believing hard enough or for not being faithful enough.

ummhallelujah

Man I'm sorry that happened :( . But yeah, I'm not religious (I grew up going to church but was very fortunate to not have many bad experiences with it) but I've always thought... If god is real and they want us to be happy, maybe they gave us the means to create solutions to our problems ourselves. Idk, but I'm very lucky that my mom is supportive of me pursuing treatment for my mental health. She definitely realized that therapy and meds are part of my progress towards living a happy life (and I'm slowly convincing her that she should try therapy because it's never too late lol). My dad not as much so, he's the type to say "what do you have to be depressed about" despite his side of the family equally suffering from mental illness but we just don't talk about it much.

Pansy Soupbrand

reading these comments and starting to wonder if there’s a correlation between religious trauma and unabashedly gay furries. anyways shoutout to my southern mom for needed it explained that atheists have morality and ethics too, just not through the lens of “be a good person or god will punish you for all eternity” 🥳

Pansy Soupbrand

(i prefer a person who is kind because they have kindness in their heart, not because they are afraid of punishment in the afterlife. one seems a lot more authentic than the other)

Must Love Frogs

So when I was first coming out in the year of our ever lovin' lord 1999, I read in an actual published book from the actual library that sapphic relationships were a desperation train for ugly women that men didn't like. As a card carrying Ugly Woman (I'm actually just large and butch, but everything is relative), this was something I felt I had to take into consideration. I mean, if there are beautiful, desirable women the opposite must exists, and these gay uggos have to take refuge in SOMETHING, or conveniently die, I guess. Reminder: this wasn't just some mean churchy person telling me what women deserve. This was a scientific study in a nonfiction tome. It's amazing I can make a god damn sandwich and feed myself.

Robo87

One of the most prevalent comments I’ve heard about an attractive woman being gay is “I don’t get it. She’s beautiful she could have any man she wants :/ “ Like. And. She doesn’t want them. So only “ugly” women can be gay and all the pretty ones must be straight because if all the beautiful women are hooking up with each other who will pity fuck all those ugly men who deserve them?! Never mind attractive men are never give ugly women a second glance and ugly men think they’re worthy of gorgeous women and also reject ugly girls And a man’s looks are never called into question regarding his sexuality unless he’s gay and then the stereotype comes in that gay men MUST be attractive and fit while a straight married man can be a literal bridge troll with a hot super model wife that he can treat like shit Make it make sense

Corinne Stephenson

Dude, precisely. When I lived at my old apartment, I got nervous every time spring rolled around, because these elderly gentlemen from the local Baptist Church would come by and knock on all of our doors to talk to us about the lord. I made the mistake of answering the door the first year and they opened with the question "do you believe in God?" I thought about my answer for a second before emphatically saying "I believe in being a good person." The taller one gives me this sweet, saccharine smile dripping with Bless Your Heart energy and tells me "You'll still go to hell." Yeaaaah, get fucked with that mentality, my guy.

lopoddity

As a kid, I was really enjoying a gospel song off my mom's newest CD when the singer suddenly starts saying "Come out of depression! Come out of poverty!" which was....okay, questionable....before he immediately followed with "Come out of lesbianism! Come out of homosexuality!!" and then went back to the chorus. It was like cool thanks I wanted a little invalidation and random bigotry with my music, god forbid i forget i live in a hostile theocracy for two seconds 🙃

pinkyubus

to be frank, i actually love that she has more of an “unsavory” side, i love it in so many of your characters! it makes her feel less flat or static (not that i viewed her like that before) and more “human” so to speak. i’m so glad you came over your fear to show us just how interesting our ellie is!

lopoddity

A couple of door-to-door jehovah's witnesses convinced my grandma to throw out a painting my dad had made for her of Moses, because it was "idolatry". The painting had been the centerpiece of her living room for years and she loved it, but she let some fuckass strangers haul it out to the dumpster because they scared an old lady with threats of eternal damnation. Over a painting. Keep in mind, my grandma only viewed the painting as art/decoration and was a devout baptist all her life. The JWs were unable to convert her to their faith because she was assured in her own, so they chose to exert control over her in a different way. There's something so especially heinous to me about door-to-door missionaries, especially because having been in the church, I know they don't do it with the goal of actually converting anybody. The church orders them to go out and evangelize with the goal of being rejected, so the church can then convince them that the world is intolerant and secular and their faith is under attack. I swear I wouldn't be so annoyed by religious institutions if they weren't so damned blatantly manipulative, even to their most devoted

Buttermaster

I actually had a terrible experience the opposite way where I was really depressed in highschool because of a traumatic thing that happened to me, and the solution was for me to keep taking more and more antidepressants. They suppressed not only my negative, but my positive emotions, and I experienced frequent bouts of memory loss/brain fog (to the point where it got dangerous when driving). My psychiatrist probably shouldn’t have kept upping my dose without actually talking to me lolol. However, antidepressants do really help some people! I think people really have trouble realizing that just because something does or doesn’t work for YOU doesn’t mean that it will or won’t work for someone else. I still struggle with this sometimes! Not that Ellie’s way of dealing with her problems is working for her XD

Lammergayier

Oh I can relate. I was on Prozac last year and the emotional blunting was AWFUL... When it wasn't making me have mood swings and experience psychosis symptoms. Brain fog was super bad too. I've been off of it for nearly a year and still haven't fully recovered. That said, I'm doing well enough without medication these days, but if I ever did get back on meds it'd be a different SSRI for sure. I know Prozac works really well for some people and that's great! Just. Was NOT for me 💀💀💀 everyone's brain chemistry is different. Also PSA for the love of god do not EVER quit an SSRI cold-turkey, it won't kill you but the side effects are no joke. You need to taper off that shit.

lopoddity

Ellie is a gospel singer :3 She's not famous-famous like Neith or Balthazar but she's definitely a big name within her denomination. Even now that she's retired, she still writes and releases the occasional single. She is often invited as a guest speaker and performer at churches across the country, so she travels a lot. She also does a looooot of charity work and sings at fundraising events for schools and hospitals. Perhaps most importantly to her, she runs a spiritual advice blog where she doesssss unfortunately do a lot of encouraging people to pray/donate instead of pursuing active solutions to their problems, BUT she does some good work too, offering condolences to people in mourning, encouraging victims to leave their abusers, and working with religious parents unsure how to accept or support their queer children. She's seen offering free mom hugs at pride events every June~

lopoddity

Oh yes, I was absolutely not implying that antidepressants are a blanket solution for everybody. Y'all's experiences were perfectly valid! I myself didn't respond well to Zoloft, it gave me nightmares and gastric issues and turned me into a zombie. Like it definitely got my anxiety and impulses under control but I also couldn't cry, lost my appetite, and no longer really experienced feelings like joy or excitement (I did, kinda, they were just muted). ALSO, the drowsiness was insane, I was sleeping 10-12 hours a day, which felt kinda like the drug was doing a "can't feel depressed if you're unconscious" method. It felt like I'd been unplugged, so I stopped. Trying out different meds in combination with therapy this time around. There is no one-size-fits-all solution to mental health, I kinda think you have to keep working on it and rexamining your methods your entire life

Buttermaster

Also her ambition and ruthlessness makes sense given she wanted to be a lawyer xD

Gleeman and Artist

Ugh yeah that sucks. Gospel has some really good music too. Those people can sing! Ah yes the prosperity gospel. Come out of poverty! Just give all your money to the church to do it.

Gleeman and Artist

Ugh sorry your mom said that shit to you. It's so damaging to have anyone let alone a parent say that sort of thing. There's no shame in getting the help when you need it. It's the same as going to the doctor who you get sick. I've been in therapy for 10 years now and honestly if you have a good therapist you trust and connect with and do the work that shit helps.

Buttermaster

Oh no I did not think you were implying this at all, don't worry lol! I agree. I don't think meds are right for me at the moment and I've used other coping methods (also removing stressors from my life) which has made everything a lot better. Of course, I wouldn't say NO to trying a different med should I need it, but I'm a bit reluctant to go down that path again personally. I do know lots of people who've really benefitted from them tho! Of course…there are some tactics that are just BAD…like u know…repressing it and shaming yourself for feeling negative things…👀

Buttermaster

I'm sorry to hear about your negative experience and I'm glad you're off of it now! It took me a while to “recover”, and luckily I followed my doctor’s advice and slowly weaned off of it. It was still difficult and I still think my memory was permanently affected lol. You're not alone! I hope things continue to get better. Mine was Lexapro. Lexapro helped in that it made my depression less all consuming with the verryyyyyy small side effect of turning me into a walking zombie that barely felt anything 🤣 My psychiatrist used to call my mom and ask if I was still sad, to which my mom would ask me and I'd say yeah I guess, and then my psychiatrist would up my dose 😅. A true professional!

EarthnAshes

Haven't been able to read all the comments but I'm positive I'm not the only one who enjoys seeing all facets of your characters! Positive, negative, and the inbetween. It makes them feel more real, and in Eleanor's case, somethin' to appreciate her likability more for: she had qualities that actively harmed the folks she cared about and instead of shoving it away, she faced them and took a good hard look at herself to make a change. Maybe not ALL of it changed, and perhaps not immediately, but change doesn't happen at the drop of a dime; sometimes it takes something absolutely drastic to trigger it, and it takes active work, and it's admirable that we get to see that when it all came down to it, Eleanor chose her kids, chose kindness and compassion, and is better off for it. What I like the most about the lore here is the fact that Eleanor apologized to Toffee for her treatment toward him. That's some good shit right there 👀 TLDR fuck ye for flawed characters! Show that shit! >:) Excellent stuff as always, thank ya for sharing I look forward to what you have in store next! uwu

lopoddity

I mean.....if anything was every gonna convince me that god is real, it'd be the existence of large butch women

lopoddity

Thank you! <3 And well....if I'm being totally honest, I'm not sure if Eleanor would've actually apologized to Toffee. I think she would have been terrified seeing him unconscious at the hospital, but also furious. Life is a precious gift from god, therefore it's a sin to be so reckless with it. She won't even ENTERTAIN the idea it wasn't an accident, her son would NEVER spit in the face of the almighty like that. When Toffee finally does regain consciousness, she (and Merry) both grab their son in a hug....and then she probably slaps him. She's angry, Merry's angry, and anger is a lot easier to feel than fear. But as she and Merry lay into Toffee (She never would've thought her own son could be so irresponsible! And DRINKING?? Who taught him that???), she notices that Toffee doesn't look ashamed, or apologetic, or even anxious the way Merry's criticism normally makes him. He doesn't look sad or mad. He doesn't look like he's feeling anything at all. There's a distance in his eyes that Eleanor has never seen before, and somehow that's the most unnerving part of the night. She listens to how evasive and restrained Toffee is being in his answers, and deep down in her soul, she knows. This wasn't an accident. Her child almost died. Might have actually died, if the night had gone even slightly different. That...couldn't have been god's plan, right? What would drive Toffee to do this? She trails off, watching as Merry rages and rants while Toffee stares at the ceiling, and she realizes. It's them. He was trying to get away from them. Eleanor does quickly get to the point where she is grabbing Toffee and affirming her love for him no matter what and blubbering all over him demanding he NEVER do anything so stupid again, and while it did mean a lot for Toffee at the time, I'm not sure if she would've actually said "I'm sorry". "I love you", definitely, "I don't care that you're gay" sure. But an actual apology? I'm skeptical. I think many many many years later, Eleanor would recount the hospital story to Neith, thinking it's a big heart-warming tale, and Neith, not particularly touched, asks her if she ever apologized to her son. Eleanor would get defensive, but eventually that would crumple as she realizes that her and Merry's abuse and emotional neglect nearly killed their son and she. Never actually apologized. She's never apologized to either of her children. Aw, hell. (Time to atone.)

Robo87

A large butch woman once made me see god more times in one night then I EVER did in church So imma believe-her 😈

JoMama1516

In the above scenario, were Eleanor to continue on Topher's case, how would he react? I figure with Merry he'd get upset/defensive, but since it's her... And we've seen how Toffee was harmed by his mother's actions, but what about Topher? Even if she was supportive with his transition, does she still say/do things that may seem otherwise? One example comes to mind with his pregnancy and Merry seeing it as him "reclaiming his femininity", so does she respond similarly when she finds out?

Corinne Stephenson

*slapping my hands on the table and shrieking like a chimpanzee on cocaine* THIS THIS ALL OF FUCKING THIS

lopoddity

Those are all reeeeeeally good questions. I don't know how to answer them without writing like, an essay, which tells me I really gotta draw more Topher and Eleanor interactions. My ultra brief answers are 1.) Topher would blow up or possibly go no-contact indefinitely, and Eleanor knows it. Thus Ellie will back off in a moment because the one thing she fears more than her son being without god is her being without her son. 2.) Eleanor made Topher's teen years miiiiiiserable and her constant stifling and policing of his interests and gender expression hurt him just as badly as it hurt Toffee. She also unwittingly directed much of her disgust/rage at Merry toward her children and did things like make Topher wear a "promise" ring (a promise he wouldn't lose his virginity before marriage) and once, in a fit of frustration, attempted to physically force Topher into a sunday dress she'd bought for him. It takes a LOT of work for Eleanor to start healing the harm she caused Topher, and Topher is only willing to consider forgiving her once she shows she's willing to make the effort. 3.) Yep, in the beginning she thought his transition was a phase and was half-hearted in her support as she feared "losing her little girl". Topher called her out on it, saying 1.) he has never in his life been her little girl, and whenever he tried to be he was miserable, 2.) he isn't obligated to convince her of shit, and 3.) he's doing this whether she approves or not. Get with it, or get out of the way. Hurt, angry, and confused, Eleanor initially gets out of the way.....but eventually gets with it once she sees how much more upbeat and confident Topher is as he transitions. (Read: she sees how quickly he's changing and jumps on-board out of fear of being left behind). She does eventuallyyy fully support him, there's just an awkward adjustment period first. 4.) Nope! By that point Eleanor has met and befriended Mal and many members of the LGBT+ community and fully accepts and respects Topher's gender identity. Her reaction to the news that he's pregnant is actually concern, as this seems out of character for him. Is this something he actually wants? Once assured this was planned, Ellie pats his hand, clears her throat, and SHRIEKS because EEEEEEEEEE SHE'S GONNA BE A GRANDMA 🩷🩷🩷

TheZodiacWitch ✨

I really fucking love how you write all these parental characters. So much personality and so REAL, so deeply flawed and human. I love understanding more about them, even if it makes me hate them in the moment. It’s an absolute delight. ❤️💙🩷💚🧡💛

lopoddity

Thank you very much, that means a lot <3

Ren

I'm thankful my family wasn't super religious (though they use it to excuse their homophobia/transphobia towards me) I was lucky to never be like, manipulated, into religious dogma. I don't remember what exactly it was that made me suddenly think it was all bullshit, but it was around 6th or 7th grade when in the middle of youth group I remember sitting there and something clicking and in my head thinking "none of this makes sense." Fast forward a move to missouri and a new school later I met my best friend in youth group. We bonded over being tne atheists in church (ironic because we participated the most in Bible study because when the youth leaders led studies no one would answer any question and me and my friend would have to bullshit to keep away the awkward silence) I've never felt connected in religion whats so ever which I am thankful for because while I can understand the good it can do, I've seen a lot more bad done in name of it. I really feel this relationship with Toffee and Topher and Elenore. I'm still in minor contact with them, but it only ever feels superficial. I'm jealous in a way of despite the hurt she caused, even though it took a lot of time and reflection and unlearning she put in the work when it came down to it because in the end her children do come before "god" does to her even if takes her a bit to really realize this and put action behind it. Again I'm lucky I didn't grow up in a hyper religious household but one on the borders of it. Your art and stories and stories from other commenters really show the harm religion can cause, as well as healing. As always, thank you for your brilliant story telling and delicious art

lopoddity

>< u got me blushinggggg☺️☺️☺️

marsh_beast

I’m sure someone’s asked this before me, but I noticed that all the religious pups (Toffee, Ellie, Merry) sometimes wear a similarly shaped star pendant. Is that a religious symbol?

Lourenzo Dasilva

Has she tried pushing religion on her buddy Eva. Eva strikes me as an athiest. So might that be an argument between friends?

lopoddity (edited)

Comment edits

2026-10-16 19:00 Yep! Kinda their world's version of a crucifix, it represents the "divine spark" also known as the divine light, or the divine breath, whatever you wanna call it. Their scripture says that in the beginning, god created people, but they were stupid, mindless things, following only basic instinct, like well, animals. God, presumably lonely, breathed a divine spark into his creations, a soul, a shining light within responsible for their sapience, empathy, and emotions. His creations immediately this newfound sapience to start sinning all over the place, and the lord did sigh. Followers of the Meadowsweets religions typical wear a diamond-star to represent their gratitude for god's gift of the divine spark, and to separate themselves from the rest of the godless heathens
2025-05-21 02:37 Yep! Kinda their world's version of a crucifix, it represents the "divine spark" also known as the divine light, or the divine breath, whatever you wanna call it. Their scripture says that in the beginning, god created people, but they were stupid, mindless things, following only basic instinct, like well, animals. God, presumably lonely, breathed a divine spark into his creations, a soul, a shining light within responsible for their sapience, empathy, and emotions. His creations immediately used this newfound sapience to start sinning all over the place, and the lord did sigh. Followers of the Meadowsweets' religion typically wear a diamond-star to represent their gratitude for god's gift of the divine spark, and to separate themselves from the rest of the godless heathens

Yep! Kinda their world's version of a crucifix, it represents the "divine spark" also known as the divine light, or the divine breath, whatever you wanna call it. Their scripture says that in the beginning, god created people, but they were stupid, mindless things, following only basic instinct, like well, animals. God, presumably lonely, breathed a divine spark into his creations, a soul, a shining light within responsible for their sapience, empathy, and emotions. His creations immediately used this newfound sapience to start sinning all over the place, and the lord did sigh. Followers of the Meadowsweets' religion typically wear a diamond-star to represent their gratitude for god's gift of the divine spark, and to separate themselves from the rest of the godless heathens

Lammergayier

Ohhhhh Toffee,,, ;; God that's devastating. Imagine almost dying and the first thing your parents do is start yelling at you. Where was Topher? He probably would have still been a teen at the time right? Does he know this happened, even?

owlcoholik

Seeing her say “let go let god” reminds me of when Vinny from Jersey Shore had an anxiety attack on set and left for like three episodes and then came back with that tatt’d across his chest https://starcasm.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/139.jpg Also extremely funny to me whenever what I call the American™ sects of Christianity pull this kinda stuff. Like your whole religion is cribbed from Catholicism which is cribbed from Judaism…both of which were actually very involved in the advancement of modern medicine. Don’t even get me started on JW and Mormons who are doing straight up blasphemy according to original religious texts. USA really is a crazy place where you can do whatever you want for better or worse 😭

lopoddity

Yes to both. Topher was around 16-17 when all this happened. He was asleep at the time, and Eleanor felt it was better to leave him at home, hoping to shield him from feeling the same panic and uncertainty she was going through. That's the charitable explaination, she also just didn't want to deal with a moody teenager in addition to Merriweather and a half-dead son. Topher catches a ride to the hospital the next morning anyway and sneaks into Toffee’s room. He says something like "way to suck at trying to kill yourself, idiot", and before Ellie can really react, he FLOPS on Toffee in his hospital bed and starts sobbing into his shoulder. As a person that struggles with depression, Topher can understand the compulsion toward self-destructive behavior. He understands trying to escape from their parents, from their community. But Toffee did not consider how upsetting his actions would be to his little sibling, and Topher is rattled by this for a long time

lopoddity (edited)

Comment edits

2026-10-16 19:00 Eva is an atheist-leaning agnostic, however she knows her client base (largely religious conservative older folk) and knows it's not in her best interest to discose her lack of belief. She instead employs a tactical spiritual smokescreen, nodding along when people talk about god's plan or their prayers or what-have-you. She can talk the talk, countering folk that are resistant to divorce on religious grounds with religious reasoning of her own (eg. "God gives certain duties to husbands and he's failing at all of them hunny, it's your duty to free yourself of this insult to the covenant of marriage"). To her, it's wiser to play at a vague sort of spirituality than ever disclose her atheism to Eleanor and risk starting an argument. She listens to Ellie's gospel CDs, but always has a handy excuse not to come to church. Eleanor doesn't push it because she kinda likes having Eva as the hedonistic friend. It gives her an excuse to go out drinking and flirting with men together, but it's all okay in the eyes of the lord because in the end, Eva's a woman of faith just like her! :) Meanwhile Eva and Topher have a sort of *wink* secret solidarity on being non-believers
2025-05-21 16:15 Eva is an atheist-leaning agnostic, however she knows her client base (largely religious conservative older folk) and knows it's not in her best interest to disclose her lack of belief. She instead employs a tactical spiritual smokescreen, nodding along when people talk about god's plan or their prayers or what-have-you. She can talk the talk, countering folk that are resistant to divorce on religious grounds with religious reasoning of her own (eg. "God gives certain duties to husbands and he's failing at all of them hunny, it's your duty to free yourself of this insult to the covenant of marriage"). To her, it's wiser to play at a vague sort of spirituality than ever disclose her atheism to Eleanor and risk starting a tedious argument. She listens to Ellie's gospel CDs, but always has a handy excuse not to come to church. Eleanor doesn't push it because she kinda likes having Eva as the hedonistic friend. It gives her an excuse to go out drinking and flirting with men together, but it's all okay in the eyes of the lord because in the end, Eva's a woman of faith just like her! :) Meanwhile Eva and Topher have a sort of *wink* secret solidarity on being non-believers

Eva is an atheist-leaning agnostic, however she knows her client base (largely religious conservative older folk) and knows it's not in her best interest to disclose her lack of belief. She instead employs a tactical spiritual smokescreen, nodding along when people talk about god's plan or their prayers or what-have-you. She can talk the talk, countering folk that are resistant to divorce on religious grounds with religious reasoning of her own (eg. "God gives certain duties to husbands and he's failing at all of them hunny, it's your duty to free yourself of this insult to the covenant of marriage"). To her, it's wiser to play at a vague sort of spirituality than ever disclose her atheism to Eleanor and risk starting a tedious argument. She listens to Ellie's gospel CDs, but always has a handy excuse not to come to church. Eleanor doesn't push it because she kinda likes having Eva as the hedonistic friend. It gives her an excuse to go out drinking and flirting with men together, but it's all okay in the eyes of the lord because in the end, Eva's a woman of faith just like her! :) Meanwhile Eva and Topher have a sort of *wink* secret solidarity on being non-believers

Amanda Stidham

I'm thankful I don't have much (or any) religious trauma apart from one instance: So my dad died from a heart attack when I was 10, and being that young I didn't really understand why he died at the time. I was Presbyterian Christian then (because I didn't question what adults told me. They said God exists so I believed them), but when I asked why God took my dad away the only answer I got was "God needed someone tall in heaven." Which. Just seems like such a shitty answer to say to a 10 year old. And honestly it just made me angry. I think that contributed to my atheism, like the first chip in the armor against Christianity. I don't have anything against people who believe (like my mom) but I don't want people to shove it down my throat. I believe in things I can physically see and touch and interact with with my senses. I'll cross the bridge of there actually being a God when I die.

Violetattack

The phrase time to atone makes me wonder if Ellie/Toffee ever do the AA process/12 steps, slash how Ellie would react to that kind of spirituality. I have a lot of thoughts esp. bc I’ve been working on sobriety and the role family plays in that is so interesting and also potentially deeply awkward/painful. I know making amends is for the alcoholic, not the family, but I wonder if Ellie would get a lot out of the related programs/take some inspiration. I could also imagine it making her. Tbh. A lot worse bc so much of it relies on surrendering to “A Higher Power” which is, personally, something I really don’t want to do but smth that AA pushes very intensely (and the Christian undertones are super present as well). I could see Toffee really bonding with Ellie over that, but Topher,,,,, I struggle to see that going well

Violetattack

On the flip side though, the variety in experience and beliefs might actually do her a lot of good- plenty of ppl get sober and generally happier w/o God and it might be legitimately helpful for her. Also the image of Toffee in those meetings is really good and also personally painful bc god it’s so awkward to be asked to own your shit so thoroughly after trying and failing to hide it for years

Cerulean

I'm gonna say flat-out, I'm an odd case here; Catholic AND Lgbt+. Funky combo I know. I'm asexual, demiromantic and genderfluid. Years ago in my early twenties I wasn't pro lgbt+ at all. Why? I have no idea; no one told me to be that way, no one around me influenced my thoughts either, the church I go to didn't ever mention it. I used to be angry over lgbt+ people; thinking it was "unnatural" or "gross" and disliked it all and was just mad. I have no idea how or why, but one day I asked myself "How do these people you don't even know or hurting you, affecting you???" And I slowly became Neutral, then accepting. Something in me just changed over the course of asking myself that question and I felt anger leave my body and it felt good to learn and become accepting. Then hooty-hoo silly me, I found out I was Asexual! Then after thinking back on things, didn't always feel female despite being afab. I used to think it would be neat to be a guy, or have guy... stuff. Cis people don't really think those things or question their sexuality... "But how are you Catholic and Lgbt+???" Easy. LOVE EVERYONE AND TREAT THEM LIKE GOD WOULD. Love thy neighbor, don't judge and mind ya business of others. Be open-minded and don't worry who random person is sleeping with... or if they're like me eating all the ice cream and drawing faces on things.