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Just Rolled With It | RIPTIDE #83 (Patreon)

Published:
2022-10-15 16:00:10
Edited:
2023-07-23 04:36:22
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

THE COUNCIL DISCUSSES EP 83 OF RIPTIDE.

Comments

Justiciar of Gluten

Personally I am siding with Bizly on this one. Sure Fillepe got cursed by the deck of many things but he is in a constant state of agonizing torture to have to kill Gillian. In a way I feel that the best course of action would be to drop him off somewhere and figure out a solution or to lock him up and find a solution.

Justiciar of Gluten

I feel as if Finn is going to serve the purpose as a piece of a puzzle. I think that he is the next step to finding and locating Arland. Other than that I don't know what purpose he serves.

Gunkymunkyspunk

I’m on my 5th relisten of this campaign and it hit me that this Felipe situation is actually a shockingly accurate allegory for addiction. Felipe’s mind is being hijacked by this insatiable urge to exhibit this destructive and unhealthy behavior which he has no control over. He knows it’s bad, and deep down he doesn’t want to do it but he is strongly compelled to feel otherwise. What’s kinda sad is that Chip and Jay don’t want to deal with Felipe’s problem, and Gillion does, but he unknowingly enables Felipe’s toxic behaviors. It kinda makes this situation even more sad. I doubt many people will see this comment on such an old post, but I do hope that Felipe shows up again during this Black Sea arc.

Cheese101

Yo! I’m on my first relisten and just saw your comment. I came to the exact same conclusion. I am very close to people with addictions and it really is spot on. The best solution would probably have been to drop Felipe off with someone who could take care of him (maybe Rufus or something) and then immediately seek out how to help him, rather than dropping him off and not really actively trying to do anything about it or enabling his behavior

Mike Rawch

I totally agree with this *except* for one detail. I know I'm being a real stickler here but I think this is important: there is no magical force behind addiction. As someone who has experinced addiction in many ways (in family members, in friends, and at times even in my own life), depictions of addiction in media sometimes go too far in emphasizing how much power the addiction has over the addict. It's incredibly hard and even warps your perception of reality, but at the end of the day it boils down to a person's choices. If you take away that choice and that responsibility, you dehumanize the addict imo. Better to love the person who makes bad choices than to pity the irrevocably cursed being. But all that said, you are totally right, it really illustrates how messy these situations can often become.

Mike Rawch

I'm so glad I stumbled across this - it's old news now and everyone's moved on, but I really admire this. Everyone makes mistakes, but what defines a person is what you do AFTER you make a mistake. Head up high king! I love this show and I love the whole crew behind it!

Imnothere

Felipe is the Durge confirmed

karma

yes finally

Kirby in a Box

the council discusses ep 82 of riptide

Abigail

Honestly, I kinda agree with Bizly here. I think in this situation, Felipe is being a bit selfish. Chip, understandably, doesn’t want to have the risk of his friend dying living on their ship, and Felipe is insisting on staying. It’s not an unrealistic thought to want to separate the two people trying to kill each other. If I was Felipe, as much it would hurt, I would leave, and ask that they try to help me while I’m gone. I wouldn’t want to stay knowing I’m being magically manipulated to hate and want to kill my friend!! It is indeed a moral conundrum, but I don’t Chip/Bizly’s opinion is necessarily “bad”

Sun Drop

Not to be that guy, but if I knew someone for LESS THEN A WEEK then he STABBED MY BEST FRIEND I would tell him to leave

Abigail

EXACTLY! I feel crazy with the other guy’s reactions…

WinterAcacia

Putting Filipe away makes sense, Filipe has known them for like a week, and is just the most suspicious guy. I think the problem is that Griz got too attached to Filipe, his interpretation of the Rouge card is very strange, it’s supposed to make someone antagonistic, but Griz made it so Filipe is unwillingly stabbing Gillion to foster sympathy. With Chip having just got Gillion back it is a morally quandary, but for once it isn’t semi delusional like Rumi, Chip, and Dakota usually are in the rolleds “It’s not a cult”. Also it’s kinda weird (to me personally) how Gillion stands up for Filipe, even though they knew each other for a day (likely some of Goobleck rubbing off on Charlie). All this to say that this strange set of circumstances doesn’t make Chip stupid, and his solution is valid.

Abigail

I think it’s alright for Griz to interpret the Rogue card as he pleases since he’s the DM, but I do definitely agree that in no way is Chip a bad person for bringing up the point that Filipe may need to go. They made oaths/promises yes, but the situation changed, and one of Chip’s best friends, basically his family, JUST returned and is now at risk of being killed daily. Chip isn’t selfish, unempathetic, or cruel for wanting to ensure that everyone is safe.

Eddie

the crew are definitely in a hard spot with this one, but like a lot of other people here i think i agree most with chip. its not easy to know that one of your friends who you genuinely love and care about is actively trying to hurt another friend. even taking into account the fact that phillipe doesn’t want to hurt gill. people can hurt people in real life without hating them, and if this were in real life i think distance would be the best solution. i think theres so much contention because it isnt real life, you cant just take a break from your pirate friend without putting them in danger. but staying with someone who hurts your loved ones really doesnt help anyone. gill doesn’t think about himself and so obviously he’s happy with just getting stabbed but chip very obviously does care and its very hard to just let him get hurt after they’ve been through so much. i actually dont think logic has anything to do with his solution because it seems to me like chip is blindly doing whatever he can to protect gill. anyways very good episode makes me think and my brain hurts

mocco

i think finn’s purpose in just roll with it riptide is to tell us all he knows about the allusive crawfish

WinterAcacia

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say Griz was wrong, he's DM this is their show, they can do whatever they want, I'm just saying Griz's interpretation definitely causes more problems

Abigail

That’s definitely fair. This interpretation of the card definitely creates more problems for the party

Applepie

One thing i think is kind of getting a little overlooked potentially, is that Philipe is like, going literally insane, because he actually sees all three of these people as his heroes, they went through insane stuff in the feywild, and going through hard times together brings a serious sense of comradery, and even if you factor in that hes known gillion less time, he would still feel tormented over knowing that someone who Jay and Chip have worked endlessly for, and almost died for, and someone he still looked up to, is now someone he has this magical endless need to kill for. Philipe is the newest crew member, yeah, but hes also had life changed radically by these guys, he was just a tour guide and now hes going on a pirate adventure with these dudes. Chips solution isnt irrational at all, hes been thru hell to get gillion back, and now someone trying to murder him. Neither side is really that wrong here, but i just wanted to bring to light the fact that philipe is likee, literally having his mind be torn in half here.

Applepie

Also, i think finn may have some idea of at least a direction to go to help philipe, and i hope they at least ask him, he was insane enough to be able to turn himself into a bird, so maybe he has a cracked out plan

Abigail

I think this is totally fair, and well worded! It’s such a tough thing, but I think there really is no “wrong” or “unempathetic” view on this. Kinda sucked seeing Bizly get ripped apart for it though :(

Coco

For some reason when Charlie was talking about Gillian going on a Revenge Ark against the elders In my mind I just see Grizzly with a notebook just writting down notes. xD

Coco

Now about the being stabbed thing... I myself is very terrified of getting stabbed and I ( pretty sure) well hate the experience. Even though I might forget about it. I will still feel the pain and I'll probably be dead because there's no magic heals sadly... So I'm throwing them to the cops. If it was a magical scenario where I'll be healed and it was you know technically my fault that they're in the situation... I would first be like No but if there's someone convincing me I might do it....

Greg Thomas

grizzly has no chill with the passive aggression against bizly god damn

Ace Hutson

Fin turned into a female bird, thus he is canonically genderfluid

D12Pancake

guys, yall can put the murderhobo frog into the mirror

Gunkymunkyspunk

Being (I believe) the first proponent of the Finn theory on Reddit, I feel fucking vindicated. After 9 months of my theory slowly becoming more and more discredited (especially with the information from Celestine), I feel so rewarded for trying to put together insane theories that just managed to make sense. This is the closest I’ll ever get as a biological male to truly empathizing with a mother who labors for 9 months to bring a child into this world. I feel on top of the world.

GodsFavoriteAmine

im gonna be real, i am fully 100% on Bizly's side here. everyone's making it sound like Chip is being selfish by "Pushing the problem away" but this deal between Gill and Felipe doesn't just affect them. Jay, Chip, Marshall John, Edyn, Caspian, Ollie, Alphonse, The entire island of Loffinlot, these people care for Gillion. And to take Felipe's, the guy who has said multiple times that he wants to kill Gillion, word that he just wont seems a little suspicious. separating them seems like the best option as there isn't a way, that we know of, to get rid of this curse. I don't think its selfish of Chip to propose that option when he cares deeply about Gillion, and still somewhat cares about Felipe. I think all he is trying to do is keep the man they just sacrificed so much for and went through so much for alive. for Gillion or Felipe to imply that this deal only affects them, is incredibly selfish as it doesn't take anyone else's feelings about Gill, should something go wrong, into account.

Snailer

Idk I kinda agree with Bizly, but the stabbing option is better story wise? Like it's an active thing that the players have to deal with.

BonezMcCann

I've already let my sister stab me so what's a frog stab gonna do

Another Shadow

Finns purpose is eat hot fish chips and lie

Natotally

I think I agree with Bizly just from an emotional standpoint. It seems that Felipe is under extreme duress simply just being in the vincinity of Gillion: and when Gillion was gone he seemed relatively OK. I wouldn't want Felipe to feel like he's going insane all the time and somehow snap one day due to the stress. If they seperated the two, maybe Felipe would stop going mad, but it also causes the problem of whether or not he'd hunt them down. 🤷‍♀️

UnequivocableVernaculist

I would feel bad for Bizly, but I think he does this to himself with Chip's character as a whole. I get where he's coming from but I've also been there, the only one of my friends on a losing side of a debate, and I can't help but...chuckle just a little

Natotally

If he still wanted to be a pirate, I think the best solution would to try to strike a deal with the Grandberry Pirates and get him to join them until they find a solution

Mike Rawch

You know, a LOT of people were using the word "abandon" when it comes to Chip's plan about Felipe, but you know who wasn't using that word? Chip. Drop him off somewhere, and have Chip or Jay stick around with him if it's that important to him. I'm with Bizly 100% on this one boys.

Mike Rawch

I love all the guys, both grizzly and bizly (and condi) are awesome DMs. BUT it is objectively hilarious how when bizly has a hot take, grizzly is like "no if I get bullied, you get bullied", and then we sit back and slowly scroll through the milelong pileup of comments backing bizly up.

Tak

Personally, i agree with chip, i think its a good idea to get rid of the guy who is a threat, to go bye bye for a while. Bizley is right!

currentfever490

wait how is it finn grizly said the spell was cast over 100 years ago

Greg Thomas

i think the idea is that finn was casting the spell over 100 years of his life (so the spell was first cast back when finn was much younger)

reed_you_guess

I really enjoyed seeing Drey interacting with Gill for the first real time, I feel like Drey having this connection to the crew- through Finn and Arlin and obviously the Ferin family- has a fascinating dynamic. And having Finn back is really going to help Drey feel, not just like someone they've rescued, but like a real part of the crew now. Looking forward to seeing how that dynamic changes

Ewwnicorn

He never said the word “ago”, i sorta thought that meant “over the course of” over 100 years

Amal Nazarali

i interpreted as finn casting the spell 100 years ago as like a backup plan- like "if i get killed just turn into a bird instead" and in never activated until now

Honeywisk

I called that apple was fin back in ep like 24?? And the absolute high I’m living on rn is insane. I think fin is gonna have the second part of the map, only makes sense.

Krow

If it was a stab that would kill me and I got brought back each time, island banishment. If it was a stab to my calf or somewhere non fatal that got healed afterwards, I’d be chill.

drifter

I’m convinced that Gill should just set up like, training dummies of him all over the ship so each night a different one gets stabbed and he’s fine, problem solved

SoNormal

chip apologists rise. homeboy got the right idea. if my homie was known for having no regard for his own personal safety and emotional wellbeing in favor of putting literally anybody else before themself, and then our mutual friend tried to stab them several times in front of my very eyes, admitted to trying to kill them while i slept, and openly told me they were going to do it every single night again and again?? and my homie was just gonna let them? idc if they got a curse on them bro. i'll find a way to fix the issue when my friend dying and maybe being healed back to life again every night, regardless of curses or who's to blame or my friend's (who is, again, very openly nonchalant about the state of his physical and mental health who will almost definitely not ask for help if they need it) preference on the matter. not on my ship bro. yeah nah. y'all are crazy for shitting on bizly for this one ngl

Keyia

"Hey Filipe, check out this mirror!" "Aw, sweet! Man, I look-"

Snowbird334

Why not just lock Fillipe in the brig with a fancy bed and food (in case he get hungy) overnight?

Keyia

Maybe you can drop off all the elderly people on the boat at Chip's keep for retirement, could even leave Filipe with them if it comes to that.

Keyia

If Jay had been the target of the card, I think it would have been genuinely terrifying. Also a little more confusing with Niklaus. The cards being slightly different could make for an interesting What If...

Monoscore

lmao Chips suddenly became the most reasonable member of the crew what is going on

Keyia

In my mind, the idea of dropping Filipe off some place manifests as a scene of someone accidentally sparking a fire from an object in their hands and just setting it on the ground and walking away to find something to put it out. Like, obviously you don't want to have a burning object in your hands, but also leaving it on the ground could have completely unforseen consequences, and who knows if you'll even find something to put it out with. I don't know why, and I genuinely don't have an opinion on the topic, but this is what the concept brings to mind.

Keyia

Lol, I was wondering what putting him in the brig would look like, and the scene transformed into the object being carried in a dog poop bag. The smell of burning plastic would probably smell awful, and, eventually, it'd burn through, but at least it's not in your hand anymore. This is starting to turn into a viable analogy, wtf

Keyia

Shadow clone jutsu

ThatOneGuy

I think I side with Gill’s perspective. The situation obviously tears Filipe apart and just dropping him off and telling him to just sit here while we look for a solution eventually probably wouldn’t help his mental state. Although I think just letting him stab Gill in the night is a horrible idea as well. I like Grizz’s suggestion of handcuffing him to Alfonse to keep him in check during the night and then in the mornings Gill can cast suggestion to chill him out. But just dropping your friend off somewhere and saying “Hey I know we inflicted some major mental damage onto you and you obviously don’t want to feel this way, but don’t worry we’ll find a solution at some point just sit here in time out while we go out and do other stuff and maybe fix your problem eventually.” Just doesn’t sit right for me. Maybe it’s a bit naive but in a world of magic and chosen ones I think there could be a middle ground solution that the crew could come up with to keep things under control in the meantime and still have Filipe as a part of the crew.

Keyia

Maybe one day Gillion will be a Redemption paladin and just talk to all the enemies first. Calm emotions and counterspell would also be really convenient.

Abdulaziz Mohammed

God them leaving Felipe on an island or boat would be so funny haha. I definitely don't hate Felipe or anything

Bean Martin

That's my thought too. I think "imprisoning" him sounds really bad objectively, but if they make him comfortable and he consents to it, it's basically just giving him a bedroom and then locking the door at night so nobody (including Felipe) gets hurt. It sounds like the card makes it so that if he doesn't attempt to kill Gillion at night, he experiences some degree of mental anguish, so that is not great. But there's no solution to this problem that isn't shitty for someone in some way, that's kind of the whole deal.

Bean Martin

I do think it is a strange take to be so upset at Chip for the suggestion. The others are definitely right in that it's not Felipe's fault and Chip's solution is sort of punishing him (however unintentionally) for having this curse he didn't ask for. But I don't think that makes Chip crazy for suggesting it, it just shows what a crappy situation it is regardless. No matter what choice they make, either Felipe or Gillion suffers. Gillion's suggestion of getting stabbed every day is pretty insane, but it is his way of agreeing to take on that suffering for Felipe's sake.

Bean Martin

I bet Niklaus could help with Felipe's curse :D Felipe, do you want a matching tattoo with the rest of the captains?

Bean Martin

I hope Finn's role in the story now will be to tell embarrassing stories about baby Gillion. Like, Gill is simultaneously really happy to have him back and also eternally wanting to throw him off of the boat.

Mike Rawch

damn. Gillion and Felipe codependency arc except Felipe is addicted to blood

Celeste The King

They aren't your best friend if you wouldn't let them stab you, so of course??

grandpa k

Very exited to catch my mother up on this.

Oliver Allen

absolutely with chip on this one, he's being very rational about this and i would do the same; felipe's mental state isn't the crew's issue, but gillion possibly dying /is/.

Oliver Allen

this is exactly how i feel as well!!

Oliver Allen

they've known the guy for a week, and he had a good life back in the city, i genuinely don't think it's impossible that he could just start his own crew

Grimy Boi

Felipe deadass gonna make a deal with Nicklaus to love Gillian again

Emily

If I were playing a character faced with this problem like Gil I would probably deal with it the same way, however, I don’t think it’s irrational for Chip to be guarded when it comes to Gillion like this, especially after him just coming back. It feels protective, and why wouldn’t he be? But I think what immediately irked me about Gil’s perspective and the talk about it was assigning blame so viscerally like that. And I understand that in hindsight it was their fault, but they didn’t even understand the deck at the point the card was pulled, they didn’t realize what it could do. It’s obviously not Filipe’s fault, but it just feels bad that Gillion is trying to take the blame for it all. Like, don’t get me wrong, LOVELY CHARACTER CHOICE, MAKES SENSE!! Just sad to me </3

Onion_CG

If we exclude the demon coming after Filipe, chip’s idea is definitely the most reasonable one. Keep in mind that Filipe did say that if he’s “around 30 feet from Gil” it gets easier, so I genuinely think that even with Suggestion, keeping him on the ship is actually a crueler fate in my opinion. It may not get this deep, but I definitely can see Filipe becoming reliant on this spell in the same way one becomes reliant on drugs to numb the pain, so if for whatever reason Gillion couldn’t cast Suggestion, it may be even worse for him. Whereas, if Filipe gets dropped off at All-Port with Rufus and/or Earl, they know where he is, he’s not left alone, and Filipe’s mental state can at least be stable. I also genuinely don’t think this is anyone’s fault, just as Gillion’s Donjon fiasco wasn’t really anyones fault either. Just good ol’ fate.

Cheese101

Ngl I’m totally with chip the bastard on this one as much as I love Felipe

Bean Martin

I think there is also lots of great potential for Finn to constantly tell his saucy stories and canonically ace Gill to be mortified like "NO PEEPOP, GOD NO, ABORT--"

Apple

Apple is fucking dead, why would you kill of my favorite 🐦 🥺🥺🥺

ru_shi

I'm thinking that Finn will play a major knowledge role when it comes to finding Arlin, I also have a feeling that he may know exactly what the Blackrose pirates were sent to find

Leukros

every time anyone draws a card from the deck i get a LITTLE bit more nervous because the chance of drawing the void (assuming grizz is taking the already drawn cards out) goes up. like (assuming the deck has 23 cards) a 4% chance is still a decent chance and now it's up to like. 6 or 7%? and it can only get higher!!

Max Out Of Ten

Bizly’s based. His reasoning fits perfectly for who Chip is. It’s not even that it’s not an empathetic response, it’s just not as empathetic toward Filipe. If Chip didn’t care about Filipe, he’d probably just throw him overboard or outright kill him if he had to.

Boy Blunder

I think Chip's response response made sense and was in character, if perhaps not worded in the best way. It's not that he doesn't like Felipe, and I don't think it's Bizly treating the NPCs as non-characters, it's just evidence that Chip cares for Gil on a different, deeper level than Felipe. And that is not to undermine how the relationship he HAS with Felipe! Or any of the other characters! But the fact of the matter is, Chip, Jay and Gillion share a different relationship from the rest of the crew, for both Doylist and Watsonian reasons - and if he had to make that choice, of course Chip would choose Gil over Felipe. An awful decision to have to make, but an understandable one regardless.

Dhakari Jones

Am I the only one who actually agrees with bizly/chip here? I don’t understand why it’s an issue to drop off the guy who is actively trying to murder a captain, whether it’s his fault or not.

MonkeyDestroyer

I think Finn might be familiar with the deck and help with a way to cure Felipe

Mike Rawch

I was re-listening to episode 70 the other day and I gotta say it's pretty crazy how much Felipe has changed since he was first introduced. He literally went from being the absolute LEAST to the absolute MOST controversial character in Riptide lol

ISharpZS

I heard that Slime’s girlfriend wanted to be a bird character so I thought Apple was gonna be her

em_aye_vee_

I would've been completely blindsided by Apple being Finn if they hadn't mentioned the theories in the actual episode. I started listening to riptide just over a month ago and just caught up yesterday, and haven't been involved in the community at all to avoid spoilers and I just assumed it would be a completely new character.

Ryezun

Chip isn't listening to the DM. He isn't treating the NPCs like people

You-topia

You hate bizly in this, glad he was proven right

Bleh

I'm with Charlie on this one. This beautiful frog man has risked his life, and now fully embraces us and wants to go on adventures with us. I'm not leaving himmm, we will make it together

Gian Caprotti

Rant time. Grizzly in most ways, is an incredible DM. Very descriptive, incredible story, lovable NPCs. Riptide is my favorite DnD campaign in general not just because I love Gillion, Jay, and Chip, but because the world is so cool. Now, getting those compliments aside... The whole "moral dilemma" with Felipe is the most bullshit thing I've ever had to sit through. Bizly and Condi are not "unempathetic" and aren't "not treating the NPCs like real people" for the perfectly reasonable and honestly easily *BEST* solution to the Felipe problem. And it was incredibly clear that Grizzly retconned a bunch of preestablished shit just to try and sway the situation into his favor and try and prove that he's right. Even in the scenario that we *now* have which I highly doubt was always the case since we saw Felipe when they were all trying to save Gillion, and although he insulted Gillion he was otherwise totally fucking fine. He wasn't suffering at all. But even with the *new* idea that he's always being tormented by his hatred for Gillion and thinks killing him will help, it STILL doesn't make the idea to leave him somewhere while they fix the problem a "fucked up" decision. Even if you want to say it's Gillion's fault that Felipe is like this cause he drew the card, (Which it actually isn't because Gillion didn't know what the deck even did when he drew it) how the fuck is leaving Felipe until they can FIX THE FUCKING PROBLEM an unreasonable and fucked up decision, compared to letting Felipe STAB GILLION EVERY NIGHT TRYING TO KILL HIM? Normally I'd be merely annoyed by this, and disagree with the DM for the idea but move on. But in this Just Rolled With It, he fucking BULLIED Bizly with complete sincerity until he'd say that he was wrong. Now that's *REALLY* fucked up.

Just Roll With It

I'm just now reading this, and I'd like to respond! Bizly is basically my brother & so we can definitely be wrong towards each other. We definitely hurt each others feelings sometimes, its human. I apologized, and so did charlie. It is always all love between us, but i deeply regret my intensity and toxicity in this rolled to where i wish this rolled was not public. I have been trying to avoid any of this kind of behavior in rolleds since. Even if i'm feeling particularly down, i have been trying not to show it in these rolleds. I made a few mistakes as a DM due to bias, but i never intended to retcon things to be the good guy. i did intend to make felipe's situation tragic for him, and i did want to interpret the rogue card differently, and i still feel really bad for the character. In recent episodes i've done my best to rectify my mistakes as a DM. I'm still pretty new to DMing as well, but that's more just to explain my inaccuracy with handling this and not to excuse it. I'm hoping the narrative created by this will be worth it in the end. i hope you and others who feel the same way are enjoying how things are going now, and i'll be trying to be better! I *really* appreciate the compliments in the beginning of your comment. - G