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Drama Mondays | Lemonade Stand - Ep. 33 Premium [VIDEO] (Patreon)

Published:
2025-11-24 18:15:01
Edited:
2026-09-25 22:54:24
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Recorded on November 21st, 2025

IntroChina Trip UpdateRight Wing Streamer DramaDe-platformingWhat Constitutes Platforming?Growing NihilismOptimismUN Climate ConferenceChina and Clean Energy

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Redyoshi

This is going to be the first Patreon Ep with a trillion views

Neko mimi

Have fun in China and make sure to get a good tour guide. To see the other side of China, make a trip to a rural town. It's essential for a more complete picture. It’s also just super cool seeing different ecosystems and types of biodiversity. Also, if your schedule allows, March is the perfect time for a camel ride in Dunhuang's comfortable desert climate! Side note, if you’re visiting Beijing, walk around the neighborhoods in the old city and find the public parks with the colourful exercise equipment. I remember Doug had mentioned in the Japan episode, how much more he prefers the regular quiet neighbourhoods in Tokyo to the busy city area. I think he would enjoy the old city and walking down the Hutongs and such.

Steven Blankenship

It’s so funny that Nick Fuentes is so absurdly controversial. I mean I don’t like any of the figures that are against him, but he’s sorta just saying the quiet part out loud. But it does seem that the right wing infighting is going to get worse as the Epstein files nonsense gets more drawn out. But I do find comfort in people like him, because it’s nice to hear that I am actually rich and control the world, instead of being homeless in a car with a broken window

Chance Roberson

My favorite right wing influencer is Big A Clips

Owen Balter

Dude I totally missed the weather-control meeting this month 😔

M C

This. Like when Charlie Kirk says “black women don’t have the brainpower for” certain jobs - that’s racist but that is different than just saying “anyone who isn’t white is genetically subservient and shouldn’t be part of the best country on the planet” (not a verbatim quote from Fuentes). The right grift, the Christian grift (not saying all Christians here) all peddle the same thing. Also, Nick provides direction which other people don’t. Tucker isn’t telling people who or where to get jobs and why that is important to impose their agenda. Fuentes is coordinating a movement and giving young people a purpose while telling them they are the victim. And sure a lot of his takes are ultra-right in terms of solutions/reasons, but just like Trump, he effectively and accurately acknowledges and speaks to the real suffering. Like this dude is publicly known to live in his mother’s basement, and hangouts with guys who wear cat ears… he really has to be doing something right here to be motivating such a bigoted crowd

Owen Balter

So how do we feel about the China policy where you need education to post about certain, important topics? Because Nick Fuentes would not exist

Steven Blankenship

Oh that’s fine, I’ve been trying to fix a problem with the Covid Vaccine Chip Machine, so I’ve missed the past couple of Globalist meetings

Dr. DankDabs

When it comes to the platforming question, I think Big A (may he rest in peace) had a great explanation on how people buy into this crazy bullshit. The poison is added just a little bit to ideas where they can sound reasonable. Take Tate for example. His blatant misogyny is mixed with obvious self improvement like take a shower, and work out and you’ll feel better. That clearly works, and leads to people building up a tolerance for the poison and buying into it. I’ve never seen Fuentes’s stuff, but this seems like you are just laying out the poison, and attacking it from a good angle by taking it seriously. I do agree that by interviewing the guy and letting him spout his bullshit without being prepared enough to challenge just gives a Con man more reach to their targets.

Umbra Night

depressing topic list let’s goooooo

M C

I think what you are missing is that 1. 800k viewers is nearly 5% of young republicans watching nightly. That is more than 1/6 of GenZ votes. 2. They are an actual movement. Their plan is to get into the government (which has been extremely successful). They are just passively consuming this information, they are working on making it happen. So you are still looking at about a million neo-Nazis who are organizing to take over the government - which isn’t great considering they are so successful and the majority of young republicans in positions of power. This just isn’t a viewership thing. 1 million neo-Nazis circlejerking on the web isn’t new - let’s be honest. But having that many organizing and successful implanting themselves in the government - now we got a problem.

Keith Riessen

the middle section of the Nick Fuentes and The Yard venn diagram bouta blow up

M C

Sorry they aren’t a majority in government. It’s 30-40%. That’s still muy bad haha

WillyThaJawn

I've got to be honest if someone is going to go from a fan of LS or The Yard to being a fan of Nick Fuentes then I they shouldn't be fans of LS in the first place, and I personally wouldn't want them in the audience with me

finn Stafford

I think with Nick Fuentes section there's a few things not dove into enough. 1. I think a big part of his appeal is simply he's a disenfranchised white guy. White men in general feel threatened due to the increase in white unemployment and the feeling of being replaced (true or no theres definitely the feeling) 2. His streams aren't the biggest but his clips and actual political influence far outweigh someone like asmond. He shows up to rallies and events and has thousands of people in person who follow him and is in the mainstream political discussions now. His views are most likely unknown by many of his fans who just hear that he wants to bolster white men back to being the #1 big dog. In a world where it feels like everything can get you in trouble even I feel the pull of a dude who doesn't care about the consequences of what he says and I disagree with him on basically every point. All that being said I understand why people (especially the new disenfranchised white men) follow him. The world feels bad and in bad times people are willing to ascribe to more fringe ideologies. There is also truth to the increase in polarization where people who lean conservative are being pushed away from democates and find themselves often being pushed right by the left. Young men have seen right wing clips of white men being made to feel bad for being white, and I know people in my life who have become more extreme because of it. It doesn't even need to be true but they see things like the bus stabbing and something like a white ethno state goes from being Nazi extremism to "well it's maybe racist but it would maybe improve society". Extremism sells and the enshitification of our country is pushing people to the fringes. Loved the pod, I joined as an Atrioc follower but you two crushed it!

finn Stafford

I understand this sentiment, but if someone is a nick fan reads this and leaves the community while it may make this space feel a bit safer it only further insulates them from disagreeing and potentially helpful views/communities that can help them become less extreme.

Jeremy Jensen

I'd love to see a live stream from the lemonde stand on rumble just to see what happens

WillyThaJawn

That is a fair point which is why it is important to demonstrate that this community is a better place than NF's but if a single comment on a patreon post pushes someone into NF's direction then they were too far gone in the first place imo.

Benjamin Muse

So I am a gen Z man. I have no idea who nick Fuentes is but I have randomly heard his name before. I think the discussion about him and his platform on here is interesting. I am very much against the views that he holds but I like doug want to learn more so I can learn about the people that like him. Will I tune into a rumble stream? Likely not I don’t want to be around all that hate but learning about him in the context of this episode I think is worth speaking about. Also I am a center left leaning man in America and I don’t know anyone in my life even my conservative friends that knows this guy. It seems his communities are very insular and don’t interact with others too often.

Victor

I think that the general left-leaning sentiment of discouraging engagment with or exposure to ”harmful ideas” is a mistake and counter intuitive to its cause. In order to present your ideas in a meaningful way you must provide a foundation of knowledge of specific and percise things that opposing ideologies think and feel. Pushing the idea of critically engaging with opposing ideas would be helpful to sober up the incredibly toxic and bad faith online discourse that most people are digesting their political sense through these days. Burying your head in the sand and perma grifting which seems to be the meta now is just not sustainable imo and will eventually collapse on itself (i dont think you guys are doing by any means btw). I think critically engaging is the ”chink in the armor” so to speak to this sort of narrative.

Benjamin Muse

The more I think about this situation makes me want to go and listen to one of nicks rumble streams as well. Human curiosity I guess. I think just learning myself how shitty that community is will be worth it. Aiden spoke on having a similar feeling with 4chan.

Allan

Atrioc is gone for an episode and suddenly Doug and Aiden are preaching the way of the right and glazing Nick Fuentes 🫩 (Just jokes love ya'll ❤️)

Katt i Låda

Good episode, not enough glizzies though...

Garrett Mora

Bruh this bout to be the least watched episode, I’m not seeing enough Gavin Newsom influence

Zachary Kress

Thank god that glizzy guy is gone 🙌🙌🙌

Cynical Manatee

My take on the extreme views and deplatforming is that is is overall worse if we leave these conversations only to the disenfranchised echo chambers. If we assume that a lot of the audience for this type of content are just disenfranchised people angry at the world, then we need to have conversations on how we can start addressing these issues in ways other than anarchy. I have no sources for this, but I can imagine that this is similar to how people in 1930's Germany felt and ultimately was vulnerable to the Nazi take over. However, on the topic of discussing or even interviewing these problematic figures, if it is to be done, then it is absolutely the responsibility of the host to push back and dissect these views. Because inaction is usually seen as an endorsement.

SaacAttaac

It’s wild to me that DougDoug can listen to Fuentes’s insane views on women and still not want to label him anti-woman

Ztrawby

Why are the guests here without the host? I'm not watching this.

Dani Boi

Im just going to make this clear. The idea of platforming someone in 2025 is stupid. This is not 30 years ago where there actually was a platform between mainstream media and fringe ideas where you could suppress and kill the ideas before affecting the public. Since the lemonade is a podcast about political, society, and culture things as a whole you must cover it. You do not have to host him or interview him, but we all must listen and vigorously denounce these ideas publicly, trying to ignore or just act like those views aren't there only fuels their growth. I have been aware of Nick for many years and have only seen him grow and grow. Especially everything he gets removed from somewhere. If you guys do want to interview him, but feel like your not able to provide the interview you would want against him create a debate format that will. Maybe something like a 1hr non hostile interview about the ideas the debaters have. Followed up with a debate itself that way viewers get a strong presence of who there dealing with.

Henry Ling

My interpretation of Doug's comment is that Fuentes's bad comments on women are not really a core part of his speech in the same way that it is for other manosphere content creators. Fuentes centers his content more about Jewish people and race.

ゴミの河童

The myths you mention are potent but also laughable. White people continue to enjoy a unique privilege in the US, and the people who ACTUALLY get in trouble for what they say are like.. What, Kimmel? Whose side I never want to take, but he is clearly being targeted by people in power with an agenda.

popcornspoon

The choice between being a gooner or a groyper is crazy

Victor Aardalen

I just want to say thank you so much Doug Doug for putting me on the GOAT Nick Fuentes. Because of you Doug Doug I now realize I need to spend at least 4 hours a day watching Nick Fuentes

Luke Anakar

I’m a gen z guy, and I’ve never heard nick Fuentes and Israel not in the same sentence from anyone my age. A lot of people hear about real problems with governments and decide to blame the entire population. When they really should blame specific politicians.

Floor

Lots of those viewers are... -people like Doug and Aiden who just want to hear him speak. -bots (rumble has a big bot problem) -people not in American politics Fuentes is not a big figure. He's a well-talked about figure who has 5% good ideas that people bring up and ignore the 95% of nonsense

M C

See you are assuming those things about the numbers (just like I am). I think it’s more pragmatic to take the alarmist view to try to work towards a solution than take the non-alarmist take and have the military deployed and illegal arresting/disappearing people like what happened with Trump. Also none of what you said dissuades the very real - and exposed - issue with young republicans in power. Did you miss the group texts? These are not fringe, inconsequential people. So even if the viewership numbers are likely conflated - that doesn’t change from the fact that the young republicans are neo-nazis (by their own self-declaration).

TubbyMcWubby

Both unite to form modern twitter

TubbyMcWubby

Would have been the perfect title for a Garfield collab yet it's wasted. You promised us more guests and yet here we are no lasagne, no cat. What's even the point anymore I get why atrioc gave up

Floor

Still watching the pod but figured I'll chime in as a right-winger who followed/follows many of these figures The infighting is between what now is being coined America-first vs America-only. Basically, my take is that in 2016, Trump campaigned against the Swamp but has now become the swamp. His policies have totally shifted and he's just a mouth piece for corporate interests, his strongest supporters, and yeah, Isreal. Some on the right have caught on and are struggling to find a space where they can support 2016-era Trumpism but without Trump. Pretty much, on the "America-first" side, you have Trump, his cabinet minus a few, Ben Shapiro, Ted Cruz and 98% of Republican Congress, dave Rubin, Mark Levin, Catturd, and most milquetoast conservatives. My take is that these people are mostly mouthpieces for their donors and large interests. They are no longer populists and will just keep lying On the other side, you have Tucker Carlson, Thomas Massie, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Rand Paul, most of the gamer space (probably Asmongold; I dont watch him), and a coalition of libertarians and disaffected conservatives who have caught on to the bullshit. The key factor I'm seeing is these people either call out Trump often when he makes life worse for Americans or are too afraid to do so Matt Walsh and Elon have a foot in both camps Yeah, Isreal is a very visible topic of division, but it's not actually Isreal itself or Jew hatred that causes the split. It's about criticizing America's support for Isreal, criticizing Isreals actions in Gaza, and objecting to war with Iran as well as a few other thinga. Fuentes and a very few number of accounts actually seem to just hate Jews and it's really just a distraction. There ought to be a space in between "Send Isreal billions and cheer on war crimes" and [something I don't feel comfortable typing on Patreon] but apparently we cant have nice things This is just my experience as a disaffected right-winger (voted Trump in 2016 and stayed home since).

Joshua E

About Ben Shapiro and the Free Press's fued with Tucker Carlson, that's only because they're hardcore Zionists who dislike that Fuentes is critical of Israel. I doubt Shapiro actually cares about the racism and misogyny from Fuentes because Shapiro has said racist and misogynistic things his entire career. He just doesn't like that the right wing is waking up to Israel's genocide in Palestine and influence over the US.

Floor

I dont know much about the Young Republicans group chat but I think it's an understandable position to understand that young people like to shitpost, troll, and say crazy stuff for shock value. That's 90% of any Twitch chat except they're bound by Twitch ToS on Twitch. I dont find it appropriate to conflate (I'm not saying you are) the demographic of Republicans who happen to be young with the Organization/outreach movement of Young Republicans™️ As with Fuentes, just because a voice is loud, shocking, or has a lot of views, it's not always the position most people fall on. There's way too many other factors to consider like what platform it's on. The democrats have run (largely unsuccessfully) on "Republicans are Nazis" for years and it's never been true and only serves Republicans a win. Especially when Trump's coalition is still just as supportive of Isreal as every other Democrat or Republican president before him

Kruger Main

Anti semetic and racist reels get millions of likes on instagram it’s just a whole side of the political spectrum run by robots and echo chambers but I can verify that there are people who talk about and watch that type of content that do in fact believe parts of it. It’s something that is blindsighted if you’re not aware of it but it should be focused on more because neo nazism has risen for literally the past ten years and a crazy increase this year

Mister Mouse

GOOD comment! WOW. I definitely think you're cool now and I'm sure everyone else does too! Congrats bud you did it! :D

Mister Mouse

IMO if you want to see how close we are to the edge, just look at how much support this admin still has for the current immigration policies. 40-50% of Americans approve of the racist, cruel, and absurd way that DHS and the Trump admin are handling immigration. How many steps removed are we from the thing we're afraid of, really? Honestly, racism is prevalent because it is the easiest 'solution'. Give somebody with real problems a boogeyman, preferably a group who is already 'other-ized', and they will sink their teeth in until they hit bone. It's easier than understanding economics. It's easier than admitting people you trusted have failed you. It makes you one of the in-crowd, and if they're the 'bad guys', then you must be the 'good guys'. Being a bully feels good to a lot of people, especially when it's specifically encouraged by the establishment. I struggle to see a future for America where the current two party system remains viable. The trust in both sides has eroded so far that I don't think it's fixable without massive restructuring.

Rene

Thanks Doug Doug for the great recommendation to Nicks channel. Couldn’t have found it without you. You’re the best!

Rohan Patel

I just wanted to chime in on the conversation about de-platforming. If the solution to someone having genuinely horrid views on something is to never let their words reach the ears of your viewers, isn't that a tacit admission that you think your viewers are too braindead to think for themselves and that we will just ascribe to the world view we heard last? If anything shining a light on his terrible views should hurt him not help him. People should know how to think critically about all statements they hear whether they are from the left, right, or neo nazis. If they aren't that's a failure of the education system. Like at some point you need to have faith in your audience that they will see why the things said by someone like Fuentes are abhorrent. If you think that because you platformed someone that means your audience will fall into their worldview, that's pretty insulting to the intelligence of your viewers.

Wilkane

Yes, and?

Rohan Patel

The idea of platforming someone or talking about their views being a bad thing is dumb and the LS shouldn't feel bad about it.

Matthew Lydon

Wouldn't the fracturing of the right be a good thing? If there's a full on racist take over I frankly don't see them doing well in the polls. Concerning yes, but not the end of the world. This is just more evidence of hard times and people being afraid.

Eric

"I'm on Shapiro's side" -Aiden, 21 Nov 25

pnott

The concern is not that they fracture, the concern is that those kinds of views get enough clout to become politically relevant.

Alex

This episode needs a “per Atrioc” fact checking card in it lol

RA

I think you might’ve missed his biggest platform imo which is instagram reels. His reels blow up and get millions of views because of his over the line speech and opinions. People find that funny and gravitate towards the clips and I think slowly start learning his views and potentially agreeing with at least the root like AIPAC lobbying money being a problem etc

TopDM

I know Doug is a good guy and he doesn't mean it that way, but calling it "Drama" and comparing it to fights between Livestreamers is a bit tasteless. The question is not who cheated on who right now but wether or not some ethnicities should be allowed to live in America.

Samuel

Re: your concerns around the ethics of "platforming" nick fuentes on the pod by referencing his existence, I don't think that's your responsibility at all, gotta give more credence to viewer agency. Recognising the existence or attempting to faithfully describe the shape and consistency of something that is real isn't an endorsement of that thing. The term platforming has to necessarily include a dimension of endorsement, or an uncritical magnification of their views, otherwise it's a redundant term with just.. "discussing" If it were "platforming", then all commentary is unethical, every pod, video, essay, class, lecture—whatever—is ultimately unethical for the pipeline of knowledge it sends you down, where you will necessarily have to encounter things or ideas that cause harm to people, either for utilitarian or immoral reasons I think too much weight is placed on the role of the influencer in how much influence they actually have on people Your audience aren't tabula rasas who will simply conform to the first persuasive voice they hear, the overwhelming force works in the other direction, people find voices who conform to what they, themselves, already feel, or have learned to feel, based on the context of their lives and upbringing and friends and family and place of birth and religion, etc., all much, much more efficacious influences Like i feel the broad strokes have already been painted—anecdotally it's incredibly rare to see people budge much beyond that, the influencer might shift them about a bit around the flag they've already planted, or priorities get restructured due to time or incentives or pressures which might swing votes, but you aren't turning socialists into nazis by mentioning nick fuentes, (and nor is nick fuentes)

Charwosh

Dawg in 2016 the GOP fracture and by election days the base fall in line, they might not won 2028, but we all know if the dems screw up they'll win 2030,and they're going to be the face of the base

Azayrian105

For the longest time I was on the IFunny platform as a space to use for memes and I watched it absolutely devolve into a space for vitriol and hatred with literal swastikas being lobbied about. I kind of just dealt with it and didn’t engage too much as I assumed it was niche and just enjoyed my memes. Then more memes of purely antisemitism or other race war or culture war kind of things popped up and it made me sit back and realize that I was on a platform that just was not healthy for me and I decided to pull off. And so that is why I now religiously use Reddit to make up for that itch as I swing way the opposite way!

Bird

I don't think its a question of if the average person will agree with the extremism of a Neo-Nazi, but more if a big enough minority will form that someone in power will try and use them. I apologize for making a WW2 comparison but it reminds me of the Nazi parties rise to power. They didn't outright win, but they were big enough the majority party thought they could be controlled and wielded until it was too late. That is a historical lesson I hope we learn from: a radical minority can not be conveniently controlled.

X YZ

this is what you have to say about this episode huh

finn Stafford

I agree but you're missing my point. Even if the views were the sky isn't blue it's red it doesn't matter how dumb or laughable it seems if all of a sudden there are thousands of people rioting over the problems with the "red sky"

Savanna Spazak

I think what he meant was that one of the strange things about the time we live in is that the right is treating what should be this important issue, but presenting it LIKE its streamer drama which is strange. At least thats how it sounded to me.

Policy Wonk

The your body my choice guy definitely makes his misogyny a pillar of his content. Maybe not now because it's not the forefront of mainstream news but if you saw his streams due ng the roe v wade overturning you'd understand just how much he leans on it. His own admitted origin story behind why he's so much of a Nazi revolves around being rejected by a woman in college even.

Bryce Edwards

Can you guys please replace Atrioc for Nick Fuentes for all future episodes? Thank you.

Umbra Night

The Number one way to combat miscreants like fuentes is information. I think its very important to warn and inform people. And I think that if more people went more in to depths on some of the more dangerous ideas he prattles on about the world would be a lot better off for it.

Umbra Night

I hear that but dont think that reddits communities are any less disconnected from reality and potentially dangerous. All social media should generally not be taken seriously at all especially on matters of opinion. (As someone who stopped using twitter for similar reasons and now also mostly uses reddit)

Azayrian105

Oh I get that. I was just being sarcastic. Yes I use Reddit but in much greater amounts of moderation and I really do try to avoid political posts.

HeyItsSouffle

I don't think you should be sorry of a WW2 comparison when the guy in question literally preaches Nazism

Dominic Pepperoni

As someone who’s left leaning but works in right wing dominated fields, and younger male dominated fields, I think the perception of women is way worse than the guys really think. A lot of the men I work around and with, hold some very concerning views on women and how they’re less competent than guys are. And it’s not just the younger crowd, all of the guys who are 40+ share a similar viewpoint, but do so much more quietly than the younger guys do. It’s honestly frightening how stupid they think women are, when they couldn’t do half the accounting our female lead does on a daily basis.

Umbra Night

its drama because thats not a real question its some dumbass streamer and his community saying controversial crap for the tenth time this year

joe.m

^this, if you're not someone who has used reels a ton in the past i think it'd be easy to underestimate how uncensored and vehemently racist reels can be. some really toxic communities are allowed to exist on instagram

Ni

I live in a conservative country, and a friend of mine recently asked me, "What do you think of Tucker Carlson? I really like him because he seems genuine," even though I know this friend's morals rn don't line up at all with Tucker's. I told him I think he's dangerous because he's able to package fucked-up ideologies in a way that feels genuine, and then showed him a Tucker story and broke down for him the facts that Tucker ignored or skated past, and the way he pulls you into a conclusion that's actually pretty baseless. Worked in that case, but I have other friends whose upbringings just mean they think it's fine to go "our city's lost its culture because of all these immigrants" and "I don't think I could be a friend with a black person," and you try to address those opinions with empathy while poking holes in them as well, but ultimately they're not at a point mentally where they're able to see your side, and it's possible they never will. The willingness to change their minds needs to come from within, and that usually comes with having an experience that wakes them up to how limited their view of the world is. As far as Aiden's question about what to do about the larger trends, those are just macro issues to be combatted at a scale way larger than a few podcasters can manage — I agreed a lot with the stuff Doug brought up, like not pricing people out of education and basically having a normal life. But I do think having more positive platforms like The Yard, LS, and Atrioc and Doug's streams, gives people who are disillusioned with their lives in some way a different, healthier outlet, and can keep them from going down those paths. That's prob the best difference you can make

Fluplaxio

Yeah small subsets or communities can have an outsized impact. If you take a 100,000 radicalized people that believe anarchy is better than what we have going, well you get a Kirk shooter/Trump shooter scenario. It takes one person willing to throw their life away.

Fluplaxio

You simply beat radicalization by making the average life nice and purposeful. Desperation and isolation is pouring gasoline around a flame and hoping no sparks fly off.

moody moods

I see without Atrioc’s charisma and leadership the boys slide farther right and start looking for a new figure to look up to

Jack

Eventually you guys should travel to India, SE Asia and EU as well to give us an outsider perspective, so to speak

FryToastFrill

Thank you for reminding me why I don’t talk to my ex friend who watched gore on ifunny

Drew Mullett

I’ve seen a couple of friends from college skirt in that direction. At first I knew some of them were just sending messed up memes and didn’t think anything of it. But then I was getting deep with one of them about politics and he brought up some holocaust denial stuff out of nowhere in a “I know this is probably wrong, but man, the ‘evidence’ I’m seeing is hard to refute” which really shocked me. Fortunately, I knew enough about that rhetoric I could keep my cool, but it didn’t feel like anything I said helped. Some of them have come around, they were people who liked Bernie and went for Trump this time around, but I haven’t talked to the others. I’ve moved to a new city, so it’s nice to leave that behind a little, but I’m also nervous about what will happen when they don’t have someone who has my perspective and can understand and be patient with them. I was definitely going down that Shapiro/Crowder pipeline, but it took me loving my queer family members over anything and a lot of friends being very patient with me until I couldn’t stand the cognitive dissonance. There’s definitely hope, but deprogramming is notoriously difficult

Wouter

While I don't think this would happen, I'm really hoping it won't become an NK Guided Tour. Hasan seems to have that covered. Here, in reactions to the youth parties becoming to extreme, either the linked political party steps in and throws out the leaders in order to save face, or a judge steps in (anti-racism laws/negotionism/...). This usually works for a while. The move closer to China can also be seen just generally as a move away from a dependency on OPEC. The problem is also never "we can't produce this", but "we can't produce this at the scale we use it". And that is an easier problem to solve (although expensive). One could also argue that once the renewables are installed, the reliance on the producing country is mostly finished unlike with oil and gas.

Mitch

I feel like Nick Fuentes is kind of the newgen alt-right pipeline. I first heard of him through Instagram Reels by some meme unrelated to politics that used one of his clips as a reaction. (The "Can a _____ live?" clip, if anyone has seen that one). I started seeing more and more of his clips as my feed accidently took a bit of a fall down the alt-right rabbithole. I just assumed he was another Charlie Kirk or Tucker Carlson, which is not something that I really want on my feed but in a vacuum I think the clips I saw were kinda funny. I went and looked him up and realized he was much, much worse holy shit. It feels similar to how I used to watch Leafy back in middle school and at the time I found him funny, but his content was heavily grounded in right-wing thought which lead to me being solidly conservative during high school and into very early college. Then, I found out how the real world works and I'd say I'm pretty much the median Democrat now lol.

Mitch

Yes exactly. I first heard of him through people reposting his clips on reels as memes, and for the first couple I thought some of it was kind of funny actually (I didn't see the worst of what his beliefs are so I didn't understand the full picture at the time. And honestly I thought it was at least partially a bit.) before looking him up and realizing that it's not a bit, he actually believes those things and that he is just a genuinely terrible human being. Those posts on IG are massive, and some of them have spread out of right-wing spaces into slightly more "mainstream" accounts or spaces.

Neko mimi

That’s certainly concerning.

James f

Literally same

Drew Mullett

Oof. Hang in there brother. Just don’t pull an Aiden and flee the country. That’s cheating

Tempest Liu

Thanks Dougdoug, just find my new favorite streamer. Hope he is better at 2D platforming.

Kemal A.

One problem we have in dealing with people who fall into such groups is labelling them as "bad". Anyone who's dealt with difficult people in their families or who have addictions is that a direct head on approach like that never works. The only approach in dealing with such people is to approach them with kindness and understanding. Calling an addict a "junkie" never helped that addict get over their problems. It is difficult to take the time to show kindness and understanding and it's easier to brush it off and just use labels. You have to remember that they usually fall into these circles because someone was not willing to understand their problems in the first place. It is up to people in those people's lives to bring them away from these corners of the internet. It's always a long and a difficult road just like any addiction is and someone has to be willing to spend that effort even though it could feel hopeless sometimes.

Denis Diakonov

The thing about anger in general is that it doesn’t go anywhere. Same goes for angry radicalised communities. The only thing that is possible to do is to try and redirect that energy into a positive context. Which in itself is extremely hard to achieve.

bee

I might have mentioned this before in the comments of this Patreon show, but I used to hang out in Facebook groups that were basically like a more insular version of /b or /pol, about a decade ago. I was never "indoctrinated" - I stayed in those groups out of a particularly masochistic curiosity - but I can't pretend that it didn't, for a time, have an effect on my personal overton window of what were "normal" political beliefs. For example: Guy 1 is posting that immigration is the root of all societal problems, immigrants are taking our jobs and living off our welfare while committing constant violent crimes, and so all immigrants should be deported without due process. This seems like a less dangerous and extreme position when there's Guy 2 in the comments of the post saying that actually, all immigrants are imported by jewish elites as part of a conspiracy to defile our pristine white nation by producing mixed race children, and so they should all be rounded up and shot like animals. Guy 1 disagrees and says that's crazy. They argue. Etc. Because Guy 2 exists, I - who believes none of this shit - now share a common cause with Guy 1, and slowly over time Guy 1 and his views seems pretty reasonable in comparison. This is why people like Carlson and Owens engage with figures like Fuentes. It's not because they genuinely have some true commitment to free speech or debate. It's because they can then position themselves, and their far-right beliefs, as moderate and reasonable, and use that to gain further mainstream legitimacy. I just want to caution against buying in to that, because I do sometimes feel like this podcast has a little bit of naivety in taking far right politics at face value. If you want society to improve so that people stop being drawn into these movements - which I totally agree with Doug is in the macro sense the only way to "solve" them - then you need to understand that the "more moderate" far right is working against those societal improvements, because they profit from keeping people angry, scared, and economically disenfranchised. This are the people that benefit from Fuentes by using his extremism to legitimise their own, slightly less overt, extremism.

bee

On the topic of de/radicalisation, I actually think that the most relevant data point in recent history is ISIS's recruitment of western-born young men, which was done largely online and with similar tactics to the current surge of far right radicalisation. If you're interested in a guest, it would be great if you could get Julia Ebner on to talk about this. She's an academic who has written several books about far right and Islamist extremism and the links between them. I've only read Going Dark, but it was fascinating, and I think right in this podcast's wheelhouse.

MajesticCasual

Phenomenal comment. As a current avid Hasan watcher, this is something I learned over a long time of watching him. If you're not deep in the political space it's not obvious that the "right wing grift" is a very real thing. It's organized drama and acting. The way and direction in which the right wing figures direct their hate is very intentional - its been EXTREMELY apparent after Trump endorsed Mamdani. Fox news commentary and right wing opinion completely flipped overnight. It's a song and dance of hate.

Steven Dessers

The fact that people are discussing that they should platform someone that says that he loves Hitler is insane!!!!!! I think these people need to refresh their memory of WW2, +70 million poeple dead! Absolutely insane. THIS GUY SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY F_CK_NG PLATFORM.

jay s.

where is the bald one

Peter Miller

Aiden I think you do know what to do it’s lemon party time

John Doe

If we could guarantee that he didn’t have a platform, I think that’s a good idea. We can’t guarantee that though, people have near infinite ways of getting their ideas out. What people should do in my opinion is platform him if they have debating background and spend the entire time debating his incorrect, hateful ideas. Absolutely never platform him unless you can debate him

Soran

thanks for the recommendation

Steven Dessers

Poeple who are at an extreme end of the spectrum are not debatable. They just denie every fact you trow at them. The only solution is edjucation, critical thinking... And still, 70 million dead should be enough argument to not like Hitler. In one way or another this guy is hurting ppl. My grandparents had to flee from the Germans, In the 40 years I knew them they could not talk about it, not one word. I feel like a lot of Genz-ers do not truly understand how fucked up it was at that time. Edjucation...

Callum McNeill

I recognise this but the things they say are so vile it feels awful not to label it as such.

GeoSalsa

the real right wing streamer drama is atrioc not being on the show

Sparx

I would love to see a feature of Tony LC Signs during your China trip

James Charles

Yep absolutely, it's that more than anything else that catapulted him into the eyes of everyone in the past year

James Charles

ゴミの河童 This doesn't make sense? What unique privileges do they have exactly? Affirmative action or DEI? Lol

超骧 胡

Hi Lemond pod! My aunt owns a factory that makes chains, all sorts of chains. We are based in a small county of ZheJiang, my best friend’s family also owns a factory in the province of Xian and would love to talk about the state of the country, politics and economy. Don’t be afraid to reach out Thanks

Claiming Light

Since you guys aren't The News, my opinion is that your editorial angle when it comes to 'platforming' ought to be about finding people with whom you yourselves can create interesting *collaborative* content. Even if the interview is adversarial, it's still a group process, and it should reflect your voice and remain in your control. So long as you've got hold of the reigns, the final product will reflect your values. And the audience you've formed thus far largely approves of those values-- that's why they're here. The trouble comes when the situation gets out of your hands. That's what true platforming is-- when you've opened a window to your audience for someone to stand on a soap box without opposition. And that'd be the case whether their message is benevolent, malevolent or benign. The Shopify guy wasn't malicious-- but he did steal away your show and make it his. Sure, there's not a lot of damage done on that one-- but that's what it looks like when things get out of hand. It bares being said: that can happen to anyone. Jon Stewart has talked about a regret he had during an interview with Donald Rumsfeld where he lost control and basically let Rumsfeld make his case for the Iraq war for ten minutes. It's something Stewart said he regretted, and that he took as a spur to become a better interviewer (Stewart talking about that is on YouTube if you're interested).

Luca kun

the problem is, just bc you deplatform someone doesn't mean they sease to exist. his fans still exist. even if they never find him if he says that radical things all the time that means the people who like him already had those views. you don't go through your life hating hitler and then see nick and think oh yea hitler wasn't so bad after all. there is a right wing pipeline but nick isn't the start, he's the end. deplatforming him means nothing and doesn't really solve the issue that these people exist and have these radical views. I agree arguing with someone like him too doesn't solve any issues but just deplatforming him is also not solving the issue and only fuels the right wing victim complex tho I too have no clue what would be the best to do with him. I only know seperating him and his fans from society doesn't make the issue better. and only creates an extreme echo chamber while talking to him with no pushback too only makes things worse

Luca kun

thanks guys for the recommendation. I know you guys said a lot of bad about him but he's actually totally chill and has cool views (now, I know you guys think I'm joking and you think I probably am but you will never be sure if I am)

Preston Marusyk

The problem is they are also holocaust deniers

Retrogradez

I have a cousin in Argentina that is deep into this. I can't get through to him because he is deeply enveloped and surrounded by this with friends and I've talked to him and he just refuses to listen. Responds with memes, just says I'm wrong, or says some very racist thing to just shock me to stop answering. He has a brother. I've talked to his brother. His brother is about 2 1/2 years younger. His brother isn't like this at all. I've asked him how my other cousin got into it and a lot of it was deep pockets of tiktok when he was younger and it first came out. It just developed after that and refuses to get out. It's almost like he enjoys it. I have no answer to your question Aiden because I'm still trying to figure out how to get through to him. It's hard because he seems smart but then pulls the weirdest logic to connect 2 things together. Wish I knew what to say to get him out of that mindset

Rachel Cunningham

FR if these losers were getting laid or had economic prospects they wouldnt be crashing out for the most part

declan

I'm in South Korea (not China) but I can show you guys which Kkanbu chicken Jensen huang was at

Eli Shriner

guys I think this nick fuentes fellah might be kind of a bad guy, I don't think I like him very much

Mr. Lobob

Can’t believe you’re talking about atriocs goat without him

Wouter

I say this shit and then AfD is going on a mad one

Julio Cubillas Flores

Thanks for rec guys, but I already follow someone even further right than Nick Fuentes. His name is Ludwig.

allither

Maga Mail strikes again

Tohir Tillyaev

For China trip, maybe one format to test - compare local variants of the popular apps to their counterparts in the US. Local delivery vs DoorDash or Uber eats, local ride hailing vs Uber/Lyft. Etc. We tend to think our tech is the best but it would be curious to see/hear how those compare from your pov.

raymond

This episode lacks the coffee smell we have grown accustomed to.

Zachary Lucchetti

I feel like nick fuentes is popular right now because a lot of people are seeing the control Israel has over American actions via AIPAC etc. not to mention the crimes being committed in Palestine.

Jameson

I know this is an older one but I think a significant portion of his fan base likes him as an “old idubbbz” replacement. He says outrageous things, he says slurs, etc. It’s shock humor to a lot of people. Nick Fuentes may truly believe the things he’s saying, but I think a lot of people watch him for this reason. Of course, many of his fans may genuinely agree with what he says, but I think his “breaching containment” is more due to the spectacle of a (more or less) charismatic person saying ridiculous things on the internet in the same way idubbbz would say the n word. Kids watch it and may get sucked into that world for a period of time, but sooner or later they’ll come out of it as they mature and realize that being an incel groyper online doesn’t get you laid.

hounvs

The most generous read of your comment is that you're very ignorant of what he says and you're making a conclusion without the fundamental info. It's just straight up racists, not anti-Israel people. If someone watches him be they're pro-Palestine then they're still scum who are looking for an excuse to be racist. His fanbase is talking anout Jews, not Israel.

Zachary Lucchetti

Yeah I am ignorant to what he says dude, I don’t watch nick Fuentes because I’m not crazy 😂 it was a general guess as to why his increased popularity exists. And I think it’s because of the climate around Israel. I don’t think it’s that slippery of a slope from being anti Israel to anti Jew. It’s why racism exists. People clump and generalize. Just like you did with my comment

exgota

this is wild am i the only person that sits in the overlap between lemonade stand and fuentes

exgota

the only correction i'd make about his "fans" is the fact that most "self-ascribed" groypers i meet are pretty normal well to-do guys. socially well-adjusted, fairly well off or on a successful career path, and most of whom have partners already. the main appeal of him is the "no bullshit" rhetoric, him being staunchly anti-zionist (he's not anti-semitic, not sure why ppl seem to conflate the two? ppl love AIPAC ig) and how he constantly pushes his viewers towards becoming well rounded and socially adjusted before moving into politics, as that's the only way ppl respond to change. also explains why 30-40% of Gen Z political staffers are fans of him. and btw his chat is filled with mongoloids, but that's all livestream chats tbh.

Chad

Rare L for aoc Aidan is right Tucker wasn't deplatformed he was fired because his lies costed more money than he made for fox

Chad

Yes that is wild And trying my best to listen to the other side how do balance nicks hate with lemonade trying to understand

Chad

Like I understand being anti establishment but like did you puke when you saw the Baltimore interview