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Can You Ban Social Media? | Lemonade Stand - Ep. 37 Premium [VIDEO] (Patreon)

Published:
2025-12-19 20:30:02
Edited:
2026-09-25 22:48:50
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Recorded on: December 16th, 2025

Rob Reiner - 00:00:00

Is Trump actually losing support? - 00:02:42

Gas Prices, Nord Stream 3, Biden vs. Putin - 00:19:46

Banning Social Media Ban - 00:27:41

Scale of the internet and lack of ability to regulate - 00:58:18

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Comments

Cranky

Doug is retiring from DougDoug

inwoo park

I can't believe you guys replaced doug doug with doug doug doug. 💔

Carter Call

I don’t know why, but Aiden’s takes always piss me off 😂😂

Goose2

I love the idea of learning about 9/11 2.0 twenty hours after it happened because I wasn’t in the right time zone for my daily scroll

exgota

i liked the other doug way better anyways

Bailey Yin

I think there are enough people that do not pay attention to specific gas prices that having a higher one works. Sometimes there is enough pressure to just get gas without searching for a better price

Owen Balter

You CAN ban social media, see Nepal for examples on why not to

Bailey Yin

I do think time limited ban instead of total ban for kids makes sense. It would probably mean less people trying to avoid the total bans. I also think just limiting algorithmic control and infinite scrolling in the apps would be good because it would be easier to regulate.

Callum McNeill

I think this was a really good discussion. Everyone knows something has to be done about social media, but there is no easy solution. As an Australian (18), I am supportive of the ban but I recognise also that it might not work. My thinking is that it won’t affect the teens who have already been using social media so much as future generations who haven’t had the chance to get addicted. Making it socially acceptable to not be on social media under 16.

UnicornVibes

I've seen competing gas stations in vancouver across the street from one another, and the one that was easier to access from the highway charged like 15 cents more per litre

Bailey Yin

I do think media literacy should be taught in school

Bubbles

Atrioc hit the nail on the head imo. infinite scrolling, pushing short form content, and personalized algorithms were purposefully implemented to increase the amount of time everyone spends on social media, and i think at its core that's exactly the thing we're trying to combat with these bans. The goals of social media companies and the goals of these societal movements are directly at odds. One wants to maximize the time we spend on these platforms, and one is trying to combat the social consqeuences that are a direct result of this.

Bubbles

I legitimately think the only way that we can combat the problem through legislation is to limit the tools that these companies use to hijack our brains for the sake of maximizing advertising revenue

Ryan Henson

I kind of agree with Aiden's take on the kids smartphones. Especially with Apple having your AppleID so tied to everything, just make them age verify when setting up the account, and then lock everything but texts/calls/etc. Then when they turn 16, Apple knows and those features are unlocked. They can still browse the internet freely from a desktop, but it would solve a lot of the issues that come with having a device on you all day long that is feeding you content.

Peter Sadek

Banning kids from getting phones is supper easy to circumvent. The parents will just buy smartphones in their names and give to the kids for some peace of mind. The only solution in my mind is to give the parents the right to ask phone companies to exclude their children from having full functionality of smartphones and work on shifting the parents’ sentiment towards not allowing the kids to kill their brains. Also make companies not allowed to market to kids and no kids in media should be shown to be using a smartphone. Something close to how smoking was shunned systematically by the country. Wouldn’t be 100% solved but would be way better than attacking people’s rights or policing the internet.

Peter Sadek

Getting the news can be through a news website. You can go to CNN.com or any other news website to get your news. It doesn’t have to be through social media or government approved channels. Let’s go back to the website based internet instead of every body having a handful of websites that they only go to.

James

If our government wasn't a oligarchic gerontocracy all of these 'impossible' problems would be a lot easier to fix. There is no perfect system, but the biggest thing about Mamdani that gets me excited is he just wants to do *something* and try a different thing if the first one doesn't work. Tech and algorithms survive on iteration, but it takes us 30 years to get the approvals for anything. That's also a big part of the centrists for trump energy - seeing someone cutting through the bureaucracy for a bad idea is more energizing than someone with decent ideas that never get done.

SandySanSantana

Aiden is lying, the most expensive gas station in the country is the gas station by the Premium Outlets near Disney World in Orlando. Price has been 9.99$ since ever

James Charles

i think it would be good to talk about the minnesota deficit and the fraud that went on there just for context

James Charles

the shooting in australia was because of a person with ISIS affiliations on the ASIO (australian FBI) watchlist still having family members with GUN licences. They either completely dropped the ball or it was because Albanese demoted ASIO and ignored a lot of the warning signs that this would boil over. Immigration policy has also been extremely lax with regards to terrorist risk scores because of lobbying and votes.

James Charles

I wouldn't say there's a unification and conviction in our public reaction, there's also shootings all the time, just not mass ones or terrorist ones. 10% of shootings involve registered guns. There was also a spate of machete attacks of which the premier's response was to have machete bins to receive machetes. Like seriously?

shawn

I’m never leaving another comment again. I keep saying something of Aiden repeats my exact same sentiment. Fuck my stupid Chud life

Cole Markusen

Start with banning data collection and go from there

popcornspoon

Where are you getting that number?

James Charles

Firearm Injury Prevention Policy Position Statement Public Health Australia

Rolf

As someone who grew up in the early days of social media (I am now 30), I can honestly say that Social media took over a portion of my life, but it wasn't when I was at the best of places. However, I do also see the benefits of it as a community space - a place to find friends, found family and a 3rd space. Not to say that there aren't downsides, that's something most of us know there is with social media. Is social media as a whole bad for kids? Kinda, but its also a chance for them to find the spaces that are good for them. If you just cut them off from everything, every friend they have online, I have no doubt the numbers of suicide's will go up (and I am not saying this to fearmonger, nor to put social media on a impossible pedestal where it can do nothing wrong); but isolating the ones who need it, without giving them a good support network is gonna be devestating. So what can we do? I am all for less dependencies upon algorithms and data collection from social media mogules, but we need to give them something to go alongside it. What that is, I don't think there is 1 single answer, but it lies in what the community and relationships they seek. We as adults need to figure out how to make sure their needs are met, that they still have people to talk to, to hang out with, to vent to, and a thousand other usages, before we just cut them out from it. Hope that makes some sense

popcornspoon

What if discord is used for hardcore gooning sessions with the boys? Should it be banned then?

Bonecrushboy

Aiden's take was too HOT 🔥 don't let him in the kitchen till he cools down, lol. Besides that, I could definitely see and vibe with a future where there is more gov ID age verification for certain websites.

darkhell66659

Ok, so the problem with giving kids dumb phones, (as a person who had a dumb phone for most of my school life in the 2010's), is that you don't get used to social media and are likely to just fall into addiction later, or you call fall back on books and then you're more educated but still not very social, or you just do everything on your computer at home. Maybe it's different if everyone is like that but if they aren't, it will backfire in some way. So while it's not a bad idea, you need to be very careful of implementing it well, in a way that you don't feel left out. Also then you should probably have like a YouTube education app that would be accessible because you can learn A LOT on YouTube. So yeah. Food for thought.

Frank

To the very last part about the internet, social media or stuff like AI being too fast for our governments not to keep up: I think the our world leaders (or especially western countries with the U.S. as the role model) HAD that focus and commitment to fight large dynamic threats for their citizen. My prime example for this would be the cold war and how we managed to literally go to the moon about 50 years before our technology should've been ready to do so safely, JUST to show technological prowess and hopefully intimidate the UDSSR, among countless other insane innovations and endeavors. Maybe i'm cynical or have my agenda here but to me it seems like we haven't lost that mojo as much as we gave it away. I know for American politics he's often the punching bag but it feels like Ronald Reagan pushed off this huge drift of giving away too much power and influence to the private sector. I'm Swiss and therefore going to be fine for way longer than i'd deserve imo, but it's pretty easy to see, that this homework has been copied for countries in Europe too. It's not like governments are doomed to be slow or behind on the technological changes affecting their countries, but we've clearly allowed private companies to get way way ahead on things. And the more we keep cutting taxes and funding for stuff like state-sponsored, independent research and programs/departments that specifically address these issues, the more our governments (and in a normal world their citizens by extension) are going to lose a grip on what's happening. Maybe Instagram reels and declining attention spans are also just not as clear-cut of a villain, as Soviet nuclear weaponry, even if it's clearly just as pressing and impactful

toy boat toy boat toy boat toy boat toy boat

I will say that although there are many family members I have that still ride HARD with Trump. However, my dad and a few others have said that they are questionable about even voting for Vance because he's gone along with Trump. To be fair my dad is probably top 1% in actually researching politics as a republican.

Acrobat

I thought I was losing it until I realized the social media discussion was posted on the Big A channel 3 days ago.

Gustav Miedema

About the banning of social media: I think the 'trial ban' that Australia is doing is great. It is a great start for better legislation, and protection of kids' well being. That being said, I think the true effects of this ban will only start to show in a couple of years. It is likely impossible to keep kids 13-16 off of social media. They will find a way around it, via other apps, VPN's, extensions that will probably pop up in the near future, etc. This doesn't mean that the ban won't be effective for kids that grow up into it, if an environment exists where social media use is condemned and regulated, and the steps to get social media are complicated. The kids that are not yet addicted to scrolling infinitely are less likely to try and get it, I think. For it to work, they will have to manage the ban tightly. They have to be quick in flagging upcoming apps as social media. And they should definitely increase penalties for apps that try to circumvent the ban. They should also allow alternatives, like discord, to exist. The social aspect of the apps should be fine, but the infinite scroll algorithms, and personal profile pages with content are a poison. They should define 'social media' better, and make a clear separation with social forums, like discord. I also think that the ban doesn't have to be completely airtight to work. It's fine if some people find ways around it, or if parents themselves decide to help their kids get social media. In my head it is quite similar to torrenting. It is something a lot of people did, but the vast majority of people didn't. They just bought the DVD's. The friction of figuring out how it works and the threat of it being illegal (or legally grey) were enough to scare people away. I really hope they won't give up on the idea because people find ways around it. TLDR: I think the social media ban will be useless for kids 13-16. They are a lost cause. BUT, am hopeful that it will create a media environment in which it is non-standard to have social media. So that children 8-12, that are not yet addicted, will not try to go through all the motions of getting social media. For this to happen though, they really have to commit to keeping up the ban.

tissue_b0x

One additional thing about California's gas prices is that we use special blends that are more expensive to manufacturer to reduce air pollution. Smog back in the day was so bad that schools had Smog Days and kids couldn't go outside. The stricter requirements for air quality means the gas is more expensive but you can also go outside and breathe.

Shavon

I agreed so much with Doug in this episode. He's so great at explaining the tech side opinion on these issues.

Cat

A solution to some of the social media stuff could be just wrecking the algorithm. Prevent the algorithm from using machine learning and make it kinda suck so people get bored of social media faster but can still have the friend part. Maybe throw in educational content that isn’t able to be skipped like ads. Slop with a side of differential equations.

Zachary Lucchetti

Regarding the teen social media segment. I think that things like depression etc are higher is simply because the world is a shit place, and negative content reaches farther than positive content. I know that I’m primarily depressed because my outlook on the future is grim. We have a pedophile in the White House, terrible wars and killings all around the world, the climate is collapsing. Everything is massively expensive. It’s very hard to stay positive when you’re soaked in “content” like that. But realistically, it’s just people sharing their experiences. I think the ban is more nefarious and a way to rip the power of discussion from the generations that want change the most. Without social media the recent genz protests almost likely wouldn’t take place and I believe that’s their true intention

Zachary Kress

The argument with that is you are being directed to or are using media companies who rely on clicks and attention as a source of income. Which then just becomes a bunch of billionaires who own these outlets to make sure released/available information is favorable to them or their views which is what is happening now. Whereas with social media someone can see something happening and take a video or make a post explaining what they saw (however truthful or real) and it may go against what the main media outlets have reported and provide more conversation or investigation regarding the issue or event

Dagen

More like lemon-ad stand

pnott

We already have The Daily Scroll, it's Daily Dose of Internet on Youtube

Oleksii Valihura

Full ban for smartphones in schools should be enough in my opinion. This is the place where kids do socialize the most after all. And the less time you spend on your smartphone in school, the more chances you have to find people who share some interests with you IRL and make friendships this way.

darkhell66659

I mean it also depends on classes, and it's not like phones are the only ways to avoid social interactions (i.e. books). And phones don't specifically stop you from making friendships, but for instance if you have a class without your friends you would be on your phone. Speaking from experience

Peter Sadek

But social media users also have the same incentive. They make it up for clicks and likes. The issue is that you can’t hold an anonymous account accountable since they can just spin up another account. A news site will have to make sure their reputation is solid for them to get people to navigate to their website. It’s only about the clicks because of the social media ecosystem.

Matthew Lara

That Chevron gas station near union station is priced high because its next to all the government offices that have service vehicles like USPS, METRO, and SCMWD. Whenever someone if filling up the tank they are using the “company card” so to speak. Tom Carroll from La Time 404 on instagram did a video on that gas station back in November of 2024. As for regular cars going to fill up there, im fairly certain they are government empolyees or people who have cash to burn.

Dagen

Seriously tho I'm getting 4 ad breaks in a main ep

Joseph

I love in the last five minutes when Doug said skill issue it activated the Atrioc robot.

Oleksii Valihura

I feel like you are simplifying it a lot. Every country in the world experiences issues with social media. Not just developed nations(who tend to be more gerentocratic)

Queleb

12:00 I've also found that to be the case with my right leaning family members

Appollochan

RE: Social media regulation. I think the way to go is not so much banning stuff outright but slowly reintroducing the friction to the point where people simply find it a hassle to spend hours scrolling. Like making infinite scroll illegal, making an option to turn off reccomendations and comments compulsory, then later perhaps making these the default options. Aiden doesn't seem to think digital solutions would work but I think they would exactly because they are so light that people wouldn't bother to circumvent them and they're so unobtrusive that few would object to them. I set my wifi to turn off automatically at 9pm everyday and it's been the main thing to finally help me get to bed on time. I can turn it back on at any time but I just don't 'cause it's a bother. It's amazing how well even slight friction works as a disincentive.

pnott

Minor friction can work great if you personally are trying to change your habits. But the goal of regulation is to either force people to change their habits or to influence them to do so (i.e. soda taxes). If you make it something simple like what you do with the wifi, it won't effect any societal change, and only help people who were already fence sitting. 99% of people will just click the "turn it back on" button, like the kids in Australia are doing.

Appollochan

Oh my gosh my apologies, there's an essay incoming! This subject is so interesting to me, and I have so many thought's on it! 😭 It's counter intuitive that something so small could have a large effect but if these things weren't significant the social media companies wouldn't have added them to their product in the first place. It's easy to think a big issue like social media addiction requires sweeping restrictions, but I don't think that works in the long term, it just leaves a void within people that they're desperate to fill, so they'll work really hard to get around the restrictions, kind of like how alcohol prohibition turned out. I think legislation that makes things less convenient however are not only more effective, but less likely to be shot down by the public, kind of like how banning smoking indoors in the UK, led to a lot of people quitting even though they were still free to smoke. I'm advocating for the social media it's self to be made less addictive, maybe not as a final step but definitely as a minimum. The reason people scroll endlessly is because it's really efficient to do so. If the companies are forced to make it less efficient, even just by provided the options to the consumer for it to be less efficient, I think we'd see a large drop off in the amount of doom scrolling. You say 99% of people would turn the options back on but that would imply that 99% of people want to keep doom scrolling which I don't think is the case. I'd argue way more people are on the fence than you suggest. As someone who very easily gets hooked on scrolling I jump through a lot of hoops to avoid the efficiencies of social media, I don't have to apps on my phone, I only use sites through the browser and logged out. On PC I use browser plugins to prevent recommendations and infinite scroll. Social media sites that don't allow me to do this I just cannot use e.g. like Instagram and TikTok. We may be a minority (and I don't think that minority is quite as low as 1%) but we'd benefit tremendously from the option to turn of infinite scroll, recommendations, comments etc. Then there's the majority of people who I suspect don't care either way and just go with the flow, these people I imagine wouldn't turn the options back on if they're off by default because they'd still have search and their subscription pages. Those who for reason do want to scroll for hours on end would have the choice to do so, I guess, they wouldn't be effected by the legislation. People would still use social media of course, I still do, but they'd have more control over their behavior, and who says the friction would have to stop at those small levels? There's tonnes of ways to add more friction to make social media less addictive, and the only cost would be to the social media companies. It feels to me like a no brainer to implement these kind of algorithm breaking options, but I absolutely want to hear where I might have blinds spots. My goodness, thank you for coming to my TED talk. 😂

Peter

roblox is pure algorithmic recommendations btw doug

Ken Zhou

so funny hearing them bewildered at the 7.80/gallon gas station when that's cheaper than any place I've seen in my country since 2020.

Chad Foo Kilroy

I say there should be no algorithm for under 13 on all social media sites, That's my take. Make it like original Facebook where you only saw the people you are friends with posts, And you had to search specific people to find anyone. With no ads or very limited ads like how TV gets.

Chad Foo Kilroy

39:50 I disagree with Aiden's idea because the kids aren't going to have any resistance to these new super algorithms that we have and going to get super addicted immediately (I think). A lot of adults already got addicted to original Facebook and Instagram and Snapchat before they were crazy optimized. Now I would imagine it's like knowing that when everyone grows up, they're going to have FREE access to weed/alcohol/nicotine (take your drug of choice) with virtually No supervision that anyone can do because they will be legal adults. It's going to be mayhem in overwhelming addiction I imagine. Right now it requires good parenting and a little bit of supervision for a person to have a decent/better chance not to get addicted. Edit: oh he says to sixteen. . . Hmmmm I can just imagine the iPod making a comeback as a loophole 😂 "see guys, it's not A phone!" Lol

Chad Foo Kilroy

Also, I have no idea how you would enforce it 😅 let's send the whole family to the mines!!!

Chad Foo Kilroy

46:50 what If we made it where you can't put ads on short for media (anything under 5 minutes let's say?) I wonder how fast platforms would shift 😂

Queleb

53:00 For anyone whose familiar with 'It's always Sunny in Philadelphia' they unironically did the 're-segregate the bathrooms' bit from 'the gang solves the bathroom problem' lmfao

William

Clint Steven’s idea was. You can’t have more then 10 friends/followers on social media and you can only see those posts

M C

That union station chevron had crazy high gas prior to the gas increase you guys are talking about. I want to say it was over $7 even then (I walk past it everyday) but I don’t want to be providing misinformation. I do remember it was always significantly higher though by $2-5.

Claiming Light

If we actually want to succeed at protecting kids from the internet (and protecting internet from the kids) a hardware focus is the only method with any teeth, so far as I can see. Even the most robust software solutions will only be cracked by people who disagree-- and that'll let one hacker decide the policy for everyone. I'm down to make people get an ID for internet access, just like we do for cars. No smart devices for kids, and no access for anyone who doesn't register. That'll cut down on internet anonymity too-- and that stops comment bots and trolling nihilists. Bans on social media sites like Twitch will actually MATTER in that environment. Freedom of speech isn't inhibited by having to own your speech. Rather-- that puts us back to normal. A world that today's kids have never even seen, but people our age remember.

Sebhatt

It's so silly to say "skill issue" that the government can't regulate fast pace changes in the tech world. Look at a company like YouTube who has every incentive to make ad block stop working on their site and they still can't do it. The mole always wins in the wack-a-mole situation. Action is always faster than reaction

ruder_dk

What country?

Sico Siber

Hey guys, love the podcast, I don’t know how interested everyone else would be, but as an indie game dev, I’d love to see Isto on an episode of the podcast to talk about the market for indie game devs. He semi recently put out a video on his development journey/game devs iceberg, and I think it would be a really interesting conversation because how it seems that marketing is now the most important part of indie game success. I recently launched a very unique story game on steam called OTHERS and it’s had fantastic reviews, yet not that many sales due to the fact that I’m not great at marketing. Granted I did launch on Black Friday and have a super niche genre that’s something in between slay the princess and Stanley parable, so that didn’t help either. All that to say, I would love to hear more from isto and Big A about the marketing process for get to work, Atrio, and their next upcoming game.

Connor Gaston

Very disappointed with the turbotax ad in the newest main ep. Causing me to consider dropping Patreon.

Tyler Page

The world has always been a shit place, it’s nothing new, and if you think otherwise… read some history and I’ll promise you that shit now is better than shit then. Your perspective (and feed) is informed on the state of the world, but many who are depressed are not because of that reason. When you consume content about the state of the world, you’re victim to the algorithm that traps you into inaction. Pay attention, if you feel depressed - and like effort isn’t worth it - because the world is shit. What does social media do for you emotionally? It VALIDATES you by feeding you an algorithm that affirms your belief. Social media is solving an emotional need, or serving as an emotional numbing agent for most people. For those who are depressed and uninformed like you, SM takes away the ability to socialize, tolerate difficulty, and regulate emotions. All of which contribute to an erosion of mental health.

Zachary Lucchetti

I was speaking anecdotally regarding my own depression and others I speak to and I think it’s ignorant of you to assume that the state of the world for many isn’t a cause of depression. Just because it’s better for you now, does not mean someone in a different socio-economic (or other) situation isn’t struggling. I understand history wasn’t all rainbows and sunshine much more than I believe you believe I know. Just because things were bad in the past does not mean things are not bad now for many of the people of the world. We have new issues now that past generations did not need to face. My frustration is many problems that exist are 100% solvable yet nothing is done because of the greed of the ruling class. We agree that algorithms feed negatives more than positives, I’m not engaged in social media because of that fact. (outside of podcasts and other news based platforms such as this because I wish to be informed on the world around me) I do not think it’s morally correct to stick your head in the sand. Especially on issues within your own country. Respectfully, you aren’t aware of my ability to socialize, tolerate difficulty, or regulation of my emotions. While I understand you’re making a broad stroke assumption based on your own anecdotal opinions, I suppose I’m just confused on the point you are trying to make towards me. What am I miss informed on exactly? I’d like to reply but without context I don’t really understand your point in that regard.