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*Unedited* First Time Watching HoTD 2x1 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-03-13 21:00:07
Edited:
2026-03-30 20:17:02
Imported:
2026-09

Content

NOOOO

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Comments

Starspire Station

Yay!! You should definitely watch the HotD Season 3 Teaser Trailer after finishing this season (it looks so good; I promise that's not a spoiler)! What I find interesting about Season 2 is that the writers were really "on their own." Because they (due to budgeting limits from HBO) were forced to adapt less than 20 pages of the original book, Fire & Blood, for a full season, they had to take many creative liberties (some good, some meh). For example, the ending of this episode (an event known as "Blood & Cheese," similar to how "The Red Wedding" is the in-universe title for Edmure's wedding) plays out very differently from the books. The original text was far more brutal and involved different characters being present in the room. I still really enjoy this season, and the character work is beautiful. I didn't love Daemon's personality in Season 1, but his storyline this season might be my favorite so far. All of this to say, I hope you enjoy Season 2 as much as I do, but please keep in mind that the rest of the show - and who does what - will probably continue to differ from the original text! I love both Team Green and Team Black for separate reasons, but Season 2 made me see the Blacks (TV version) in a whole new light. Based on Fire & Blood, I'm still Team Green, but in the series, I'm definitely neutral (much like you). P.S: In my opinion, the colors this season are much better than Season 1! It is such a gorgeous piece of television, and the Season 2 intro is definitely my favorite of the pair we've been given. P.S.S: I'm surprised HBO hasn't yet made a blanket with the stitching from the intro. P.S.S.S: I'm in the same boat as you with GoT, having just finished it about a month before you did, and I watched HotD alongside Season 8. Fingers crossed we won't have to wait too long for the next installments!

Vishnu Vatheriparambil Mohandas

The new intro shows Daenys the dreamer who dreamt of the doom of valyria, then we see doom of valyria with the dragons falling and volcanoes errupting, then we see Aegon and his sisters on their dragons depicting start of the conquest, we see Harren the black, Aegon's dragons burning house gardner and Lannisters in the field of fire, Tullys, Arryns and Starks bending their knees to Aegon, Targaryen dynasty represeted with Targaryen sigil above King's Landing, Maegor the cruel killed on iron throne, King Jaehaerys and Queen Alysanne taking over the seven kingdoms after Maegor died, Jaehaerys the old king at the great council of 101 AC which was the starting scene of season 1, then we see greens and blacks, Lucerys and Arrax chopped up. The tapestry will update as the episodes progress

Lamasa

Can you give us some thoughts on Agon as you continue to watch the show if you notice anything you appreciate about him? I really like him lol

IcySystem

Why don't the dragons cross the wall? Good question and I Iike your idea with the spells/wards. If you're ever done with the shows and books, but still wonder about these questions, I can recommend the youtuber 'Michael Talks About Stuff'. He has over 100 videos filled with very cool asoiaf theories. One of those videos has the title 'Why Dragons Can't Fly Over The Wall Explained (Game of Thrones ASOIAF Theory)'. I really hope that winds of winter releases at some point to see how many of his predictions are true. His talking is a bit monotone, but his theories are so deep and convincing.

IcySystem

The Stark Lord (Cregan Stark) was just visiting the Wall with Jace. Don't think he was part of the nights watch.

Vishnu Vatheriparambil Mohandas

Actually show made that scene much less traumatic. In the book Alicent is also there with Helaena and she's also held hostage, and Helaena have two sons and a daughter. And Blood and Cheese will ask her to choose which son to be killed. If she doesn't choose they'll kill them all. So she chooses the younger son thinking that he's too young to understand what's going on and the heir will be safe. But they will instead tell the young son that his mother chose him to die and they will then instead kill Jaehaerys the elder son. The guards will find Helaena broken down completely and hysterical next to her dead son.

IcySystem

That scene is so wild in the books, but at least it has an interesting twist. I can't believe they messed up this famous scene in the show. They tried to recreate it, but it's just not the same.

Yoav Cohen

I wonder what (or who) Helena's guard was doing ;)

Dresdon

In the source material he actually had them go after the boys on purpose, show sugar coated it and made it seem like he wanted Aemond dead

ramon carter

I said the same thing they could have easily killed Aegon instead

ramon carter

will you be watching season 3 weekly with us that would be cool

Joey Largehands

Almost every big moment so far is an accident, which is poor storytelling tbh

Joey Largehands

So many channels I'd recommend tbf but I'm holding off on that for now ha... I do think the theory side of the fandom get carried away at times (even the great ones like Michael Talks About Stuff) which is why I like re-reading the series to connect with the characters. Not necessarily referring to your comment but more in general. I do like his theory on the Wall itself and how it's built. As well as his Others series. But so many theories fall flat because they disregard the characters as they are presented in the books, which is why I enjoy fresh readers (although for reactors there is the undeniable influence of the show).

Joey Largehands

It's been ~10 days since Viserys' death. Keep that in mind.

Joey Largehands

Nothing is funnier than seeing people shocked at the sight of scorpions given how GOT made that Qyburn's big secret invention lol...one of the original 3 dragons, Meraxes, was killed by a scorpion bolt in Dorne. Dragon scales defend significantly well against bolts so to kill a dragon, you have to somehow manage to pierce its eyes, which is how Meraxes died. The best method to kill a dragon, is with another dragon.

Joey Largehands

My personal opinion is this episode made the first irredeemable mistake of the series, and it's all about framing. "A son for a son" - which means the death of one son of the QUEEN be repaid with the death of one son of the KING... instead they focused on Aemond being the 'son' framing the entire conflict as Rhaenyra vs Alicent rather than Rhaenyra vs Aegon. That framing changes so much to the story.

Mari

idk i disagree here the book lowkey frames it as a conflict thats starts between alicient and (sometimes otto) vs rhaenyra that passes to their sons. even the framing of greens vs blacks was abt the dresses that they wore when they started beefing. imo its like the war of the 5 kings the King was Jofferey but Tywin was the one fighting. with the mindset of its Robb vs Jofferery then taking Tywins heir wouldnt mean much for the Baratheons of KL.

Joey Largehands

@Mari it 100% def starts that way, everything leading up to the Dance is the enmity between Rhaenyra & Alicent but once Viserys dies, it shifts to monarch vs monarch, Rhaenyra vs Aegon. Once the Dance begins, Alicent is not that important, but because they made the change in S1 by making them friends, they decided to stick to that a bit too much, which in turn changed almost everything about the story. The thing is, I didn't mind the change in S1 with them being friends, but the moment Lucerys was killed was the perfect opportunity to shift it back on track with F&B. But they chose to go a different path and hang onto that friendship (plus the prophecy). In my opinion, that: - Alters Rhaenyra's reaction to Lucerys' death and Visenya's stillbirth. - Ditto Alicent's reaction to Jaehaerys' death (in fact, it actually really irks me - irrationally - how the showrunners just disregarded the children's deaths in general). - Muddies Daemon & Rhaenyra's relationship and completely changes Daemon as a character. - Keeps Alicent around for no other reason than to give Olivia Cooke more screen time (and she's great, but her scenes become too much filler). - Takes away agency from Aegon. He's of age and should be ruling / making decisions but he's not because Alicent's around. - Takes away screen time for Jacaerys, which makes him pretty much an NPC despite the role he plays during the Dance. - Corlys' focus becomes daddy-son drama rather than any real connection to Rhaenyra's mission.

Mari

Spoiler: i agree but the way they set the show up Rhaenyra and Alicient are the main characters like i dont think they can just shift away from that. if they offered the show to where its like an anthology series abt the Targaryen family it could work but the way they set it up from season 1 which is the season damn near most ppl like they are the main characters. i seen people complain how little Rhaenyra is in this season even though the show is supposed to be abt her if they kept it correct to the book you would not see her even more. and while it sucks that they dont allow them to grieve i like the change of her actually trying to do something and Alicient trying to steer the war a different way. i also like the addition of infighting betwwen corlys vs alan and rhaenya vs daemon and jacaerys bc to me they make sense character wise. do u seriously think any of those characters wouldnt feel any type of way of how shit is going? u dont think alan would feel some type of way that he only getting recognition after all these years? daemon literally seized dragonstone after viserys named her heir to me it makes sense that he starts acting like a brat when his loyalty is being questioned. do u not think Jacaerys wouldnt feel a type of way abt his mother putting them in this position and lets be clear show Jace is just foreshadowing something that happens w the bastards later. to me it makes more sense that he wouldnt rly want to fight with more bastards specifically bastards that look like Targaryens. my only problem is not allowing them to grieve really. but even then it make sense that Rhaenyra would at least attempt to snap out of it and get to work when ppl are blaming her for killing a child.

Joey Largehands

I do agree there's the balance of giving the actors/actresses screen time, but think they messed up that balance with the story. By "important" I meant screen time - Alicent got plenty of screen time (filler) despite her being kicked off the council, and even that only happened midway in S2. Ditto with Daemon @ Harrenhal being stretched out. For the record, I think they did a decent job of developing Alicent's character, "but to what end?" would be my question. They messed up Daemon's by adding the prophecy, because his self-reflection changes to cheap plot necessity. Re: Rhaenyra, also valid point. I think with her, there's more flexibility to adapt while keeping on path with F&B. With Alicent, keeping her as a major focal point of team Green, takes away from other characters at times and/or puts her in conflict with them unnecessarily. In fact, I find it strange how much they diminished Aegon's agency, because we only really see Aemond ruling outright on the green council. They do the same with Rhaenyra being at odds with her council and I don't like that either. Too many manufactured conflicts just to force Alicent & Rhaenyra back together. I also agree they set themselves up by making them the focus of S1 and not being able to pivot away from that, and like I said the moment Lucerys died was the perfect moment to shift. But they didn't and that was the big mistake. I'm of the belief that story should dictate the characters not the other way around. As long as the story is compelling, and delivered well, then the audience will stay onboard. Obviously there are cases where the character enhances a story beyond what was intended (re: Jesse x Breaking Bad), but the story should always come first. They had the complete source material so they don't have the excuse of not knowing where the story goes beforehand. All that said, because it's so off base from F&B, it is exciting/interesting to see where they take it in S3. Here's where I stand: I personally don't think the writers are equipped at forming clear & compelling narrative storytelling (which F&B is - specific to DotD - there is a point to the story). I think they've lost that plot, and judging by quotes I've seen ahead of S3, yeah this story is going somewhere else completely. But that doesn't mean it still can't be good TV - the acting is great, the sets/costume designs are great, dragons are awesome & music if amazing. I am still looking forward to it, but separating it completely from TWOIAF (until proven otherwise). *Really sorry for the long read lol

Mari

sorry for my long read too lol but my thing abt the source material is lack of characterization. in asoiaf for jaime we literally see a whole shift happen in his head. we see outside perspectives of him, we see how he views those perspectives of him, we see how he views himself, and we see how that changes. we know what’s motivating him, whats bugging him, and whats hes happy with. for these characters we only know outside sources and even then some of it isnt full enough to give a clear characterization for aemond he could just be a boy with a temper angry abt getting his eye taken or he could be a madman. aegon could just be a sexual assaulter or could have raped someone. and with certain thing we dont know how they felt abt it we dont know how rhaenyra feels abt blood and cheese, we dont know how jace feels abt his mother and himself. from what we know daemon loved viserys and he loves rhaenrya but why wouldnt he react the same way when he doesnt think they are doing what needs to be done

Joey Largehands

I wholeheartedly agree with the lack of characterization. The thing is the source material is set out that way on purpose, so adapting it would mean taking careful consideration with how aligned the characterizations added are with the overall story, which is where I understand the difficulty but also criticize the execution, if that makes sense. I too, as an example, have always wondered how Rhaenyra felt about Jace having the dragonseeds claim dragons, but in the show it was Rhaenyra's decision (after Mysaria's suggestion) and Jace is the one who's being a crybaby about it. Things like that. I feel they had plenty of room to be creative but they decided to change things that were pretty cut and dry. From that standpoint, I can understand why GRRM would be upset lol.. I'm sure he understood the difficulty and was willing to help to make his ideas clear but they pretty much shut him out and did their own thing. But F&B was always gonna be a difficult story to adapt - and why I'm not super excited about an Aegon's Conquest adaptation.

Mari

i dont want to keep going on an on but thats the thing abt the changes in the first season i think making Alicient Rhaenyra’s anxiety ridden peer instead of a full grown woman that is lowkey plotting with her father in seducing not one but 2 kings changes the story quite a bit from the jump. like to me when licha says we shouldnt pick sides im like yea if u read the book youll see how clearly wrong the greens are and there really isnt any side. however with the show they presented us there is a side to pick and if GRRM likes it why should i complain. but then they keep going with the story they started giving us that he liked but he wants to go back to the source material which wouldnt make sense for the show they are presenting us. and with that being said in what they presented in season 1, i dont think it makes sense on Jace calling the bastards. side note: This is a reoccurring problem with GRRM hes done it with both GOT and HOTD and hes currently doing it with AKOTSK where he likes the first couple seasons and the changes they make to them and then starts shitting on it. the people also shit on too and then notice like im saying the problems go back to season 1 and they shit on the show and directors forgetting that he likes that season he leaves them out to dry lol. as of rn he is calling it akotsk “his books come to life” but if they are stuck with outlines in season 4 and they dont do the show in the way he wants he is going to complain lol

Joey Largehands

You're probably right in the change (at the beginning) was too much to begin with. Yeah there is no choosing sides in F&B lol... I still think the Lucerys' death was the turning point, maybe GRRM thought the same? Who knows.. I do agree he's always giddy at the beginning of new shows. I've said somewhere that he's generally bad at judging people who understand his stories lol

Mari

im sorry one last thing i want to make it clear i do have problems with this season but i seen in another comment you said everything has been an accident and i want to thoroughly exam that alicient accidentally put aegon on the throne however the counsel was already plotting on doing it so it doesnt matter. w blood and cheese they wouldnt have added that part of cheese asking what if they cant find him if daemon didnt tell them to do that so though he claims it is, its not an accident. aegon also actually does accidentally get fucked up in the books these are the only 3 accidents so one doesnt matter, one isnt one, and the other actually does happen in the books. this season was slow fs and there are problems with it. however if they are only making four season that means they are splitting it into 4 parts. this season, besides the battle of the gullet which many believe was cut off bc of strikes, is a full 2nd part. so yes in much of this season everyone is sitting idle. however if they jumbled up events and had it done in like 6 episodes, while cutting some of the sitting idle moments, it would make for a shittier show. i honestly think this is the best they can do 😭😭 their best bet wouldve been opening the show a little more to insight in other families. i think cregan and jeyne both having to put down rebellions parallels well with this story. i think we are grasping at straws at what makes this season “bad” when it was already doomed.

Joey Largehands

Yeah the accident thing was hyperbole, but I still count Alicent's as one, it may not have changed the plot but it changes characterization a whole lot. Aemond killing Luke, accident which was what had prompted that ccomment tbf.. b&c take it or leave it, the added ambiguity does serve a purpose, pitting Rhaenyra vs Daemon but softening it just enough for Daemon. The Aegon bit in the show def wasn't an accident so I wasn't even thinking about him when I made my comment ha. Ftr my personal feelings on S2 have little to do with the pacing as it does for others, although there are issues. I give grace to the issues re:HBO & writers' strike. My issues are on the narrative/characterizations/lack of consequences to actions/continuity issues. A few can be forgiven but too many just takes me out of the story. I agree the story is a tough one to adapt and it should've expanded to other houses in S2. I also wasn't advocating cutting some of the story per se, as you have to give it time to develop organically. But so many characters still feel underdeveloped/mediocre because of the focus on "Rhaelicent" which comes back to my original comment and your point on that change being an issue from S1. Btw no need to say sorry tbh, I really enjoy these discussions and it's been great going back and forth with you.

Marc van de Klashorst

I don't agree that after Lucerys' death it truly becomes Rhaenyra vs. Aegon. Ostensibly it's obviously a struggle for the throne between those two, but Rhaenyra basically does nothing in the book for the period this season covers because she is recovering from the stillbirth. So Rhaenyra is given too much to do this season, when on paper she had nothing to do. ANd you feel that throughout the season, because she keeps stalling. Alicent on the other side also does nothing in the book, so they also give her stuff that feels aimless. And part of that is because they try to keep Alicent and Rhaenyra as 'good' as possible, the ones who try to keep the peace the most. In the books however, they are monsters just like the rest of them. To quote Otto Hightower, "genocidal war criminals". They should have shifted away from Rhaenyra / Alicent and make the supporting players this season, but I can understand the temptation to keep fabulous actors like Olivia Cooke and Emma d'Arcy front and center. The original GoT made the same mistake, focusing on the qualities of the actors instead of the characters. #TeamSmallfolk

Joey Largehands

Yeah the Rhaenyra v Aegon bit I should have worded more carefully, my point was more broadly speaking the actual "war for the throne", so you can view Rhae v Aegon in that context, despite Rhaenyra not being actively part of the Dance for most of it. Alicent is even less important. Agree with you btw, and yeah think they're making the same mistake as late season GOT. I mentioned in one of my comments in the thread that the story should supersede the characters and unfortunately the opposite happened in S2. The worst part about keeping them "good" is they become more unlikable as a result. Alicent wanting to help Rhaenyra does not make me forget that, despite spending considerable years planning and executing Aegon's usurpation and raising terrible sons, she just okayed her sons to be executed becauseshe can't deal with them anymore. 100% #TeamSmallfolk

ramon carter

they were all drunk could have got to him on the throne

BloodyBen

Cregan isn't in the Nights Watch, he is the Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, he was just visiting the Wall with Jaecerys