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Hi all. I know the last chapter was pretty unpopular, so I do want to give you a chance to voice critiques. However, I would like to say a few things before the next chapter’s release, just to pull back the curtain and clear up a few items of inquiry:

“The next arc is going to be a loss of agency arc.”

First of all, these meetings aren’t going to be the focus of the next arc necessarily. It’s a twice a month side plot and narratively doubles as a consequence for getting caught and a way for Arielle to get information about the system. Her working with Father Jade is a temporary resolution, but it’s pretty clear that he is set up as a villain/challenge they will have to overcome by the end of the arc. Not everyone can be on Arielle’s side in this story, because it doesn’t make for a good story when every single villain is either working with her or is of no consequence to her. Arielle has pretty powerful allies. It only makes sense that she also has powerful enemies. 

Also, I’m not entirely sure how this is a loss of agency necessarily. ‘Loss of agency’ for me means slavery arcs, which I will absolutely never do, or mind control, which I will also never do. In stories, people often experience setbacks, are given unpleasant choices, and have to take one of them, until they can find a way out. It was forewarned in the earlier chapters that Arielle’s discovery would have major consequences. I don’t view a temporary setback and her making the choice to be compliant for now as a loss of agency. I view it as a setup for something else. Obviously, I don’t want to spoil the end, but I will just say Arielle isn’t one for total and complete compliance and she likes to poke at things she doesn't understand until she can figure them out.  

If there’s something else I’m missing that makes it feel like a loss of agency, please feel free to let me know. 

“Not enough information was revealed in these past two chapters.”

This might be fair. The two chapters were meant to tell us a little more about the system and its inner workings, as well as Arielle’s core and what makes it different from others. I feel like I make a lot of assumptions in my head (like with those earlier chapters about the system haha), and I forget that readers don’t know what I do, so I tend to share too little. It’s also hard to know what I’ve made obvious and what is only like a hint that I never confirmed, so I end up reiterating a lot of things readers might already know and missing out on what they might not. In that vein, I’d like to know the things that weren’t clear, so maybe I can go back and add them in with asterisks, if they were meant to be revealed at this time.  

All that being said, I do want to hear from you. Once again, if there’s something else I’m missing that makes the chapters unpleasant, and you’re concerned it might be repeated, I’d like to hear it. Although I have a general storyline in my head, I don’t want to write something readers aren’t enjoying, so I do alter based on feedback as long as the general message and throughline are still intact.

Thanks for reading!

Comments

Viria

Personally, I do not have any issues with the current plot's direction. I expect she'll grow/learn a lot from those "suppression" sessions, even if painful. I expected something different from the system center overall, but the foreshadowing/lore drop about her "origins" was a good twist!

reads

Unsurprising that people who read 'archmage' stories are mad at mc being weak or used I guess

Thor Gotschal

First of all I’d like to say that I absolutely love your story and think it’s one of the best in the genre! My problem with the last chapter is less about the “loss of agency” and more that a 14-15 year old *disabled* girl being tortured and going to be tortured again and again, is a tough read and hard to stomach. Maybe I misread the tone of the story but at least for me it will make reading the next few chapters difficult to go through. I’ll still read them because I believe in you and Ariel’s ability to pull through tho :)

Meowgrr

I really enjoyed it! There's definitely a subset of readers who prefer power fantasies without limit...

Findell

Its really too bad this could have been a good story.

Ve1th

For me the main problem with the last few chapters is that so far the system was always threated as an afterthought narratively; you made it to be a big thing in-world, but except for few offhand remarks as far as the story is concerned it was completely ignored. Even in the last arc no one tried to inspect Arielle or a demon or anything, and now suddenly the system starts playing the big role again.

Rand Knight

I'm not seeing it as TOO unreasonable. Authorities ARE going to overreact somewhat when a child starts building a WMD in their backyard. She'll soon have the power to upend the current rulers simply by existing and being herself. Yes, it sucks for Ari, but allowing her to grow while under strict supervision is better than slamming the ban hammer down and forcing her to either stop being exceptional or to become the enemy to be free. OTOH, that level of pain is going to traumatize adults, let alone children, even if she's technically 'consenting'.

Hauke Sattler

Authorities ARE going to overreact to benevolent inventions because they disturb the status quo.

Ve1th

Also, in my honest opinion the story pacing is getting a bit too much; when i started reading it i expected mostly mage academy/mystery arc with the abyss/church of wayward plotline. Now it keeps constantly escalating all over again without giving resolutions to previous threads. We have elven kingdom plotline, abyssal spells, abyss itself, demon invasion, hybrids, Gio, pet dragon, now the high ascendant and system aware of Arielle… like at this time narratively i feel like most of the academy slice of life is getting almost irrelevant in the constant influx of escalating conflicts and how fast you can reasonably power up Arielle’s friends to serve as anything more than temporarily relief in the conflicts / people she needs to protect / people that will be impressed with her skills

Dax

My issue is more to do with the "regularly scheduled torture appointments" part.

Stevie Metke

*nods* I was definitely reading it as consequences for her prior choices. I am curious what people thought was missing.

Rolf

Hello from the mostly silent majority here. Just wanted to let you know I'm enjoying the hell out of this story and I'm excited for what comes next. Write your story. It's been going great so far.

Road Rash

Me personally, i just know I’ll find the chapters where she will “learn” about her powers this way as boring. I’d rather her learn and grow in a more organic manner than arbitrarily being experimented on. Plus I’m more interested in other things about your world and characters, and find the whole core suppression blackmail plot the least interesting part of it. I think the lack of magic essences in the world could be handled in a more interesting manner than it currently is.

Greg

I would have liked the testing to be longer, maybe 5 chapters. There was a lot of buildup and anticipation for this event and it finished too quickly. How about a chapter from the perspective of Father Jade? I am excited to see what happens next!

Tanna

I would personally tone down the whole pain aspect of it. The plot itself is fine, but making it explicit torture of a child is the problem I think, and it doesn't really fit within the tone of the story so far. A one-off with Leviathan's poison, fine, but making it regular, no. Being coerced into these experiments by someone powerful is a sufficient complication all on its own. It wouldn't even have to change anything significant about this chapter. Maybe she realises it's approaching a point of no return for suppression and that's why she stops it. Just not, this, please.

Chris F

The pain from suppression trope is becoming a little much at this point. I don’t mind it in this case because I think it’s gonna result in her gaining resistance -> way to prevent the high asc from doing it. I trust in the process but the suppression thing needs to be sorted out soon so the stakes can be elevated to her being killed tbh.

V0lcano

I think the main problem is that Arielle and Elric have no reason to trust Father Jade and no reason to believe that he won't permanently cripple her in some way with his 'tests' (by suppressing her cores fully or otherwise). Actually returning for more sessions seems antithetical to Arielle's wellbeing, her independence, and her future. She does have an alternative; become a fugitive, possibly seek asylum in another realm, and give Vittoria/Elric/Gio no information on her whereabouts or intentions so they can say with honesty that they have no part in it. Or, she can maybe work together with them to silence Father Jade in some other way without getting caught (like with the unknowing potion or Gio's memory spells). It's also very punishing that Arielle has just fought off a demonic invasion and been through a very painful recovery only to deal with this right after. The oath arguably makes father Jade trustworthy, except we've seen Arielle break an oath, so he might be able to too, and even with one it might not do enough to protect her or prevent Jade from wriggling around it to get what he wants.

onedayokay

oh that's fair. I probably didn't think that through enough when I made the narrative choice, but it wasn't meant to be a repeated torture session. Like the priest said, the pain is typically only going to be experienced like that the first time, mostly due to shock, and it won't be as bad any time after that. But you're definitely right in pointing it out, and I should have probably toned it down for that chapter. The point her isn't supposed to be that she goes through torture so I will definitely think of that in subsequent chapters, and might do that for the rr version more fitting with the actual tone. Thanks!

onedayokay

That's fair. For me the system is something that needs to be addressed eventually. I ignored it because I was working on how to change and present it in the earlier chapters, and I've been going back and forth on that so I haven't brought it back in yet, but I do need to do so, at least to address the discrepancies and to elaborate a few things that tie back into the plot (Hidden Ability Markers, How Arielle bypasses the system, the concept of authority, the role of priests, primordials and the high ascendant himself etc).

onedayokay

Yeah the pain aspect I definitely should have thought more about before I presented it the way I did. It wasn't meant to be such a tone shift, and I think I've read too much dystopia that I don't realize when when things are pushing it a little too much for my story. If it makes it better, it's not meant to be endless torture sessions. Like the priest said it's really only going to be that bad the first time, and I will likely tone it down even then for the rr version (and future patreon chapters), because that's not supposed to be the point of this arc at all. Thanks for pointing it out.

Sharien

honestly...i didnt mind it for me that was an interesting development on world building - not every bit of lore about the world needs to be spelled out and this was definitely a bunch of interesting tidbits and loss of agency? cmon - this isnt any more loss of agency than the whole having to hide her ability was its a reality of her existence in this society and as her session with the headmaster revealed - she has to grow into her power quickly or this society will eat her whole... when you dance on the edge of a volcano you will occasionally get burned and her being required to do this? im willing to bet this will drive more people into her corner, especially in the academic and military world (both of which have already seen some of her potential and her general drive to help people) hell this might even get selena into her pocket, because she absolutely hates having to conform to rules of others... i dont like selena, because she is an entitled brat - but it would be very much in my understanding of her character that she would resent jade and the system center if she learned about this

onedayokay

This is fair. Although a few of the older plotlines have been resolved, I could probably settle a few more. I'll probably do another pacing check.

onedayokay

Yes, I definitely should have thought deeper about that narrative choice. Essentially, I truly didn't mean for it to be regularly scheduled torture. It's meant to be more so discomfort and a discovery, but I think I read too much dystopia and don't really see when I'm pushing it. Like the priest said it's really only going to be that bad the first time, and I will likely tone it down even then for the rr version (and future patreon chapters), because that's not supposed to be the point of this arc at all. Thanks for pointing it out.

onedayokay

Yeah, they definitely won't trust him. In fact, Arielle and Elric will be actively seeking a way out of this. And the becoming a fugitive thing is a little more complex but I'll probably explore that in the next chapter.

Mitchell Calhoun

The guy specifically mentioned that it will be worse other times. Considering how this one went that doesn’t paint a bright picture.

onedayokay

Yeah you're totally right. I'll definitely tone it down and wish I had done that for the last chapter as well (I'll probably change it for the rr version). I didn't realize it was such a tone shift and the torture isn't even the point of this arc anyway, so definitely wish I had thought that through better.

Mitchell Calhoun

I’d say if you ever plan on publishing the series it would be worth going back through and cleaning up the system stuff. It’s the only part of the story that hasn’t really fit in properly or really made sense. Aside from that it’s been awesome.

onedayokay

Haha thank you! I'm truly curious about what readers expected from this testing. I figured it was pretty straightforward and not necessarily something you would want to get dragged out.

onedayokay

I think that's a fair critique. Thanks for sharing

Hannah

For what it’s worth I didn’t have an issue with the chapter. Yes, it’s unpleasant. But that’s why it’s a real and painful choice.

Tanna

Always appreciate a creator willing to consider constructive criticism

MarchB

I am definitely not a fan of torture and/or experimenting on humans against their will, but just because I am not a fan does not mean I can’t read stories where that happens. Otherwise I wouldn’t have read anything with bad guys in it aka every fantasy ever. I do actually like that she is not too OP and is in need of support in her own unique way. My only wish is that we still get to see her graduate and go through the whole academy arc at least in some way and once it’s done - don’t just forget any of it happened (I have been burnt on that before)

Yersinia Pestis

So, I've been saving up chapters since quite some time ago as I would like to read it all in one go once the story is at a point where it is once more truly relaxed (This often happens for me with well written stories as they often are not experienced properly if read a chapter a day). As I am curious, I've been skimming chapters. The last one did have me read specifically the torture parts and Jade fully, and so I thought I would comment here anyway. Please feel free to ignore me, as I do lack quite a bit of context. Now then, as for my comment: I do not consider this a loss of agency, but I am disappointed as I hoped for a release of tensions here (maybe even enough to finally get my catching up done). That is not a real problem though. One thing I wish to ascertain: May authors have a tendency to make main characters be rather lenient on villains. This monster just tortured a kid and blackmailed Elric and Arielle to let him do it again. I honestly expected Elric to just murder him and if Arielle's sister finds out about this, I WILL expect Jade to turn up as a body soon after. But I don't actially want that: See, this disgusting animal in human form thinks torturing a child is fine (15 years old is a child, no matter how mature she may seem). I honestly think he has to pay for this. My personal favorite for punishing these kind of monsters was constructed by the protagonist of Ar'Kendrithyst. If I remember it correctly, it's a spell that forcibly makes a perpetrator empathize with his victims. To truly feel just how terrible what they did actually hurt the victims. While I dislike torture, even psychological torture, this sounds like a very fitting punishments for someone like Jade. What I want to say is simple: I don't want Jade to get away with this. And I consider a simple death still him 'getting away' with it. So, that's it. Thanks for the story anyway, and I hope I will soon be able to read through everything at once.

giom

And maybe something for earlier readers explaining the system changes and which chapters are updated

Velius

This is a good summary of my thoughts while reading, too. It would have been a good opportunity to bring back the Elven plotline and develop that core even more if she had to flee and took refuge in that realm. Perhaps we could learn what druids actually are since it seems like mg assumption here is incorrect.

Antony Claughton

One solution might be to rewrite it so it’s less pain but more Ari believing she’s being suppressed and reacting, and Elric reacting to that. Then there would be less of an expectation that follow up sessions will be torture versus very uncomfortable.

Harvey Quinn

I don’t know, I never got the vibe that Arielle would be tortured so much as tested. I also assumed Arielle would use these sessions to her benefit as during the demon invasion she kept struggling to focus through the pain. For me, the main issue is that I thought this was going to be a story where Arielle was unique in a way that couldn’t be explained, measured or duplicated and the story seems to be going away from that. Also, it’s concerning to me that the author responded here that there were several resolved arcs to the story and I don’t think any arcs have been resolved. Not in a meaningful or satisfactory way.

GG32 .

I thought that was the message until he said something along the lines of "Who knows, sometimes the pain will be even worse". before that i understood it as a process that you grow numb too in a way. Still unpleasant but not torturous.

Liam Muro

I’m just waking up, and am not yet lucid enough to give any meaningful feedback. Instead, I’d like to briefly share my experience with the story. *The Archmage Coefficient* is currently my favorite story, with SilverLining’s *Just Add Mana* being the only other that comes close; the nightly releases are almost always the highlight of my day. Thank you for continuing to write such a wonderful story. I find Arielle to be a relatable character; I view her as well and reasonably/logically written in the context of her strengths and challenges. I believe I understand the qualms you’ve received; however, I had a different response. You progress the plot, set up exposition, and protect Arielle from the High Ascendant. (I believe I had something else to add, but do not recall it at the moment.) I had hoped to see more of the “Arielle does something absurd and surprises everyone” that we saw earlier in the story, but knew that it wouldn’t make sense plot-wise. (Unrelated to the last few chapters, it’d be really cool to see more stoichiometry. Perhaps in some of the upcoming Jade/academy chapters). Unrelated feedback: The line (from memory): > “how often,” asked Arielle, “will I have to be a lab rat?” … Felt somewhat forced, although that may have been the syntax combined with the phrase “have to be a lab rat” coming up a lot in that section. Regardless of syntax, I feel the line serves to change the chapter from the announcement of a “torture-arc” as some people feared, to the setup for another side-plot like the abyssal spell research or the meetings with Dean Octavius. EDIT: italics around book names

GG32 .

Now that i think about it this also felt a bit like the solution of the earlier pacing problem of ari not getting enough exp per spell to level up in any meaningful way. It is a bit inelegant as the basic problem still persists. Didnt you say you wanted to readdress the amount of experience per spell learned? Maybe make it % of the necessary to level up or have master spells worth substantially more? Just a though i had about that aspect. As an intro to Father Jade and the System Center it is fine. But i wonder if Ari will still try not to get a hidden ability marker? Because technically all her Archmage levle stuff should marker her BUT she just got advanced to her 'actual' level by the System Center so that would be a whole new can of worms.

dyslogorrhea

I actually think the story is great and you're doing a great job (w/maybe a little bit too much new open thread proliferation vs. thread closing rates). Did want to mention a random continuity edit (I know you started w/o thinking this would take off as much as it did and were pantsing more than outlining, I'd guess) - in chap 20 "The High Ascendant lived in the heavens, and though no one alive today had seen him, they assumed he was still there because things continued to flow smoothly. " Just flagging for if/when you go back and edit.

John Smith

I feel like the trajectory of the story right now is leading directly into some sort of "race traitor" or " bloody revolution" arc for Arielle because if this is how they treat a girl who, at this point has been nothing but helpful, she'll be forced to go rogue before many of the other plotlines are able to be resolved. Like at the rate she's growing it seems like she'll become what is considered a threat to the top brass before the demon war is even resolved, and the high ascendant will think about enslaving her. If that's what happens then she'll either have to 1 suffer a loss of agency arc 2 join the demon side 3 try to run off to Elfland with all her friends and family or 4 is strong enough to revolt during the demon war, leading to massive death and destruction. Being outted this early on, and the top brass being SO NOT cool with it (human experimentation with a little girl) means Arielle's on a trajectory to a situation with no winning answers. That's a narrative direction that runs counter to the initial promise of "overpowered prodigy" who we usually expect to be able to refuse most ultimatums due to their overwhelming skill or strength. It's not wrong, per se, but the "path to minimum sacrifice" is rapidly closing due to the timing of these narrative choices. Now that she's outted, Arielle will forever be on the backfoot in terms of initiative. It's pretty much impossible for her to come at the high ascendant from a position of strength because the other side controls the pacing now. Obviously there is a solution; she could find a way to subvert the system monitoring and become an amazing liar and actor, but this is a nogo for Arielle in particular due to her skillset and personality. An analogy for the power dynamics between Arielle and the high ascendant right now would be the Soviet Union vs Nazi Germany in WW2. One side has the greater potential in terms of whether industrial capacity or magical skill, but because they lost the initiative, any win will come at a profound cost (dozens of millions of lives or Arielle's most cherished allies)

Hannah

Leaving your family behind and becoming a refugee is hard. Trust me on this one 😅 For a young girl it’s even worse - and not knowing when she’d see her family and friends again? No idea when or if she’d ever be able to come back? If she were going to have her cores suppressed, I could see it. But having hope for a resolution which doesn’t require her to flee or be crippled would mean that’s a much better outcome for her. Not to mention, if she runs she’s automatically a criminal, and probably all her family and friends for supporting her.

Dayon Staniger

I apologize for the lengthy response. I touched on this in a reply to a comment on the other post so I'll restate here: "Only" losing your agency as a person "sometimes," does not make it acceptable. I understand there needs to be a consequence to her being discovered, but I do not agree that occasionally torturing a teenage girl does that. The problem with your idea that it's a "side plot," is that it inherently and necessarily overpowers the main plot. In every interaction she has and everything she does we will always be thinking "man, it's getting close to her torture session." or "damn, that's one torture session out the way for a month." She's going to have to continue lying to her friends and the people around her , so nothing about this decision actually resolves her "hiding her power," and it's going to create tension AGAIN (unnecessarily I might add) with those same people before they eventually figure it out. This isn't a "temporary setback," as you put it, it is the main point that is introduced to us as the first thing to occur for this next arc. Personally, I guess I'm failing to see how traumatizing the main character twice a month and her going back to...what, normal life? Doesn't just lead us on a spiral toward depression. Of course we're not going to see it as a "temporary setback," because being experimented on and robbed of your humanity are two terrible things that completely and irreversible change who you are as a person. Does going to see Josef Mengele twice a month make the existence of such a person and their actions against another person alright? It's an extreme comparison, but one that I feel illustrates how strongly I disdain these types of setups for character experimentation.

mezeka

Nah! No issues whatsoever. Pressure makes a diamond.

Aidan Kutcher

I would say for the most part, other than the child torture aspect, it is mostly vocal minority complaining about it. But yeah, child in a lot of pain for experimentation for an undetermined length of time… I can’t say that will be received very well

Allan Miller

I’m going to come out and say I don’t have any issues with where the story is going, and I think haters are going to hate.

Arkennys

This is a good catch :3

CPTincognito

I want to throw my two cents in there but first: I love this story and i think you have done a wonderful job with it. Nothing you do or have done will change that. My concern with this latest development is that it came on too fast and broke the suspension of disbelief a bit. The system being almost non-existent until this point then suddenly backing Ari into a corner feels like railroading. I want to be clear, this is absolutely a good plot, its just that the implementation went from 0 to 100 so fast that as a reader I can see through the curtain at the author pulling the strings, and now im being entertained by you rather than the story. The first two tests were great, the last test torturing Ari, reducing her to crawling on the ground in agony, then having her bounce back to her feet and agree to do it every few weeks feels real weird. It gives the impression that you wrote this part as a checkpoint to get to the plot you wanted rather than an important moment you wanted the reader invested in. Ari stopped feeling real here. All the characters in the scene folded flat. The first solution that comes to mind is that this may need to be spread out over two chapters, maybe more. As a reader I was excited to see how the priests of the system saw her, how she did on the tests, what the tests actually intended to happen versus what ari did, etc. I was also excited to see what the head priest was looking for, but truthfully.. i believe we would actually be better off if the priest DIDNT explain anything yet. He might be a better character if he arrogantly holds all the cards and plays into the blackmail part without explaining his master plan yet. I could see, as a reader, being afraid of him/fascinated by him the same way you have made us afraid of Gio before slowly revealing his motivations.

SnowingSilently

I agree with Ve1th. I'm not too worried about having to interact with the priest a bunch, except if it goes on for a while and doesn't get resolved within an arc or two. But it causes the bigger issue of keeping the story pace from slowing back down much since he's the Sword of Damocles above Arielle's head. And of course the system, while very important, has been on the back burner mostly and making it suddenly very prominent again feels a bit abrupt.

BlastYoBoots

As much as I defended the last chapter to others, I’m still very glad that you’re open to revisions and criticism, and perhaps didn’t intend certain things (like how much pain it seemed like Arielle might be in for in subsequent sessions) or see how they’d come across to others. Yeah, looking back I think I have a few big tips I’ll throw my hat in about— the Unmaker mystery and the REWARDS for turmoil like the Mansion Invasion: (Given the consensus in this comments section, I guess you might want to make it clear in an edit to this post or the notes of the next that you’re intending to revise the recent testing-pain bit too, or let us know the revision details once you’ve made them, for anyone who didn’t plumb the comments here and note that was your intent.) Two main complaints: First, for the mysteries and the discrepancies as to what you’ve shared and what’s a mystery… I do have to admit that yes, you lean towards holding cards close to the chest, and *sometimes* you drip-feed us so many theories and incomplete answers that it’s less like we’re putting together a concrete puzzle and more like we’re looking into a fog that gets more diffuse and indistinct the further we push into it. I wouldn’t say this always happens, but a particular sticking point is the Unmaker/Primordials, even though it’s deliberately meant to be the most obscure… I have to admit that I was probably almost as baffled by Arielle’s last conversation with Cornelius as she was. We got to understand *his* motives and the math of how assisting the assault helped Yseult, but the practically the only info we got on the Unmaker’s motives or why they’d go to such powerful, destructive lengths for Cornelius’s deal was “the Primordials are not as you think”, ie. “whatever answer you think is in your head is wrong, and I’m not going to lead you to the right one”, plus a couple vague prophetic riddles. That WAS at least a little bit of a letdown, honestly. Maybe at least the smallest extra hint of what the Unmaker was getting out of the deal with Cornelius, something more concrete about the advantage of this anchors-of-the-dead/living vagueness or a hint at what would happen without them, a crumb of confirmation as to why the Primordials should be put up with at all like (for example) “without Vacu, imagine X would happen” instead of such slight hints, etc? Second: I also feel like it’s a good pattern that if we see Arielle HAVE to suffer badly like she did in the Demon Invasion, it’d be nice to see her GET something out of it— for the story to reward her for breaking out of a painful, impossible problem by showing her a new ability with broader applications that she didn’t know she could do before. Arielle solved some difficult niche problems with rift-fighting during the Demon Invasions of the mansion but nothing she could replicate under conventional circumstances as far as we know, and even when she finally broke the abyssal subdivision spell, the only rewards were the survival of people she cared about (plus a few new background allies as much anxiety as benefit) and plenty of pain and trauma— I had expected her to come out of the fighting noticeably and tangibly more powerful, and maybe she IS, but it hasn’t been made clear, and there isn’t really a tangible or broadly-applicable ability we can point to that she understands now but didn’t understand before the Mansion incident. (Not even copied spells from her fellow Masters she fought alongside!) She fought her hardest and most painful battle yet and came out of it seemingly only with painful recovery (quick) and mental scars (NOT quick) and a few saved lives, no lasting benefits or breakthroughs she can feel or others can boggle at— and then RIGHT AFTERWARD back-to-back we’re treated to the idea that she’s going to be subject to the torture of regular experiments like this with only the hope that she might *eventually* get something out of it? (Even if I have every confidence she will?) I have to admit looking back at the last stretch in retrospect, that STINGS as a reader and feels very stingy compared to the rest of the story before this. I’m not looking for an infinite power fantasy, but could we get some carrot with our stick?

Tim

Firstly, I just want to say this is my favourite story I've picked up from Royal Road. I always look forward to your posts! I can see that Arielle's loss of control / autonomy within the chapter is pretty haunting. I don't think that is bad thing for the story, it's just a tone shift. I thought it was well written. There really is a sense of creeping dread that builds throughout the chapter. The ominous religious environment and the disconcerting nature of the monks all add to it. The suspense builds, and you know it's going to be bad, however there is nothing Ari can do but comply. You are left waiting for the moment when the axe will drop, so to speak. It's a well crafted chapter. It just feels closer to horror in genre than earlier parts of the story, and that's not for everyone. The agreement at the end between Ari and Father Jade also feels like a promise to the reader that there will be more of the same in the future. And I can see that putting people off too. (However, that is likely not quite the case, as Ari and Elric will naturally be looking for ways to get out of this situation.) One of my favourite light novel stories is Re:Zero, which is very dark at times as well. The darker scenes might turn off some people, but they also make the stakes feel real and the eventual victory all the sweeter. It was a hard to read chapter, especially with how young and good natured Arielle is, but that doesn't mean it was bad at all, just uncomfortable. As for the feedback others readers had that 'not enough was revealed in the last two chapters', I'd have to disagree. Of course, we all want the answers to all of the mysteries, but it's only natural that they be slowly revealed over the course of the story. I would assume it's within Father Jades power (and character) to withhold the results of the test / information from Arielle. Yet he did go onto explain a few significant things about Ari, and that feels appropriate (as after all, he wants to use her for his own ends). I think it's enough reveals for now. I'm sure we'll get more on how the system works in the future too. We'll just have to have patience! All in all, I thought it was a solid chapter and I look forward to seeing where the story goes!

Thomas Heaton

Eh, not saying the feedback is not valid, but I personally didn’t have a problem with the chapter. She will either grow more powerful because of it (like realize how to prevent suppression), turn an enemy in to a friend, or something else. Sometimes you hit roadblocks

HereForHFY

I don't agree with the lost agency line, it has been very clear that once she is "found out" she would have some tough choices to make, and it has come to that now. The one thing that felt a bit off/odd on a re-read is where the pain Ari experienced came from when she was casting, my guess is that she created essence to cast the spell when the orbiting essence was denied her. One thing that does stick in my craw is how unapologetic Jade is after the fact toward Ari even after promising Eric no harm would come to her, considering he wants her to basically save the world and possibly suffer while doing it. On the other hand he is a Big Man On Campus, so he could just be so far up his own ass so it never occurred to him to actually talk to Ari before the test.

Jed (Reshicrom) Duncan

Am I an outlier for not being put off by the recurring "torture" (as other have put it) appointments? I get that it's dark, but I find it pretty inline with the world that's been built so far. I suppose it can be said that it's not a satisfying end to the reevaluation, but the public reveal for Ariel's cores was always going to be both rushed and rough for Ariel, because she has no idea how to restrain herself, and because of the politics surrounding it. There was never room for a "good" outcome. All of that to say, good work so far, and I've been enjoying the story. Excited to see what comes next.

Garnet of Flame

I didn’t have much problem with the chapter, in fact I would have been a bit nonplussed if there *weren’t* any negative consequences cause it would feel like a cop out. I was really shocked by how many people seemed to think some irreversible doom had been levied on Ari. She has *never* just obediently done what she’s told even when people were legitimately trying to help her. Why would that change now that she’s dealing with someone actively dangerous to her? This is the promised negative consequences while still giving Ari’s gang a lot of leeway to pursue other options—maybe seeking asylum with elves/dragons?—without trying to deus ex machina a way out of the certain doom of the High Ascendent finding out. The pseudo core suppression directly after Ari has only sort of recovered from leviathan—alongside Lacey’s implied death, Valeria and the Archmage’s uncertain fates, and the general shock and horror of the attack—could imply a darker shift in the story’s tone. I don’t think the tone of the entire story is going to change—there’s always been dark things—but I can see why some people might be worried. Like this stuff has always been there, ascendant society has always been screwed up at its core, Ari has just been insulated from it so it was easier to overlook. Now everyone’s getting a harsh reality check. Like others have said; these last couple chapters have had a significant dread/horror aspect to them that might sit better if given a bit more room to breathe. The only real problem I had with the chapter was that the lab rat dialogue felt really awkward. Adding some level up notifications throughout earlier chapters might help the system seem less out of nowhere for people. Ari doesn’t actually need any of the system’s supposed benefits so it can be easy to forget.

Garnet of Flame

I agree on the experiments honestly. It’s an objectively awful situation, but also an opportunity and significantly better than if the High Ascendent had found out. And core suppression has spent the entire story being built up as something awful that only gets worse the stronger one’s cores are, basically a delayed death sentence with a side of torture, so it would make no sense if Ari—with some of the most developed cores we’ve seen on earth period—wasn’t in a lot of pain.

Kirvin

On the subject of the system, not sure if I'm misremembering but doesn't the system actually come with levels and "stats" which Arielle has basically not been getting because of avoiding interacting with it? I would think she can benefit from that now right?

M. Lampi

I viewed it as more like the head priest is truly curious as to the phenomenon known as Arielle and what that might mean in resolving the essence problem. He's gone about it in an extremely ham-handed way so far, a lot of which I blame Elric's advice and Arielle following that advice rather than coming clean about Arielle's experiences. Perhaps now that the guy knows a bit more and some of her secrets have been exposed this can be more of a true collaboration rather blind experimentation.

M. Lampi

Well, Jade *did* heal Arielle after the core suppression test, so there was no lasting physical harm. Of course, there's the psychological harm of the unexpected torture!

M. Lampi

I like the idea of Arielle high tailing it to the Elven domain and growing stronger there.

Allie C

I'm personally a bit torn (though I still very much enjoy the series as a whole - thank you for taking the time to write so many chapters each week). I was mostly reserving judgement until we saw how it actually played out in the story. Like, is Father Jade actually going to be cruel and how much are these experiments going to hurt Arielle. On the one hand, I feel like something like this has been set up/foreshadowed since relatively early on. Arielle is very powerful and very bad at keeping it hidden, despite the danger of others learning the extent of her abilities. She's generally fairly self-sacrificing and will not let loved ones get hurt if she can prevent it, even if it means risking the exposure of her secret. She's especially vulnerable to being found out because she comes from a different and more forthright cultural background that is all about protecting people (green fingers) and is neurodivergent on top of that. The hints at the story becoming a bit darker as time went on were there, imo. She's been lucky so far in that the powerful mages (Elric, professors, the Dean, Vittoria, seemingly Gio) who know her secrets have mostly been willing to help and protect her, but her luck had to run out sometime. She's had how many gentle warnings from Elric and sterner warnings from the dean about needing to gain skill with lying, detecting the lies of others, and generally improving her ability to figure out others' motives specifically because the powerful people in her life saw something like this coming from a mile away. Core suppression as a tool for punishment/control and the pain it causes has been brought up repeatedly in a variety of contexts as well. For me, the issue is more about how quickly the issues scaled up. We went from the biggest threat being Selena gossipping and hinting to other teens at magic school that she is good at magic because she bargained with a demon to someone who seems to be just below the high ascendant in the hierarchy (and who knows what Father Jade's actual power level is, beyond just his place in Ascendant society) coercing her into painful experiments in very short order. We went from intensity level 10 to intensity level 98. She went from a situation that could be contained at a low stakes level that she could literally learn from to a VERY high stakes encounter with someone she has no reasonable hope of fighting back against at this point, even with all of her powerful protectors. The situation went from high stakes but kicking butt to high stakes but a bit bleak/hopeless. I'm guessing that it's not actually hopeless, just based on the other issues Arielle has overcome! It's just a very dark chapter that came on pretty suddenly.

Kaladin

I don't have any problem with the last chapter but I am concerned about the overall direction. When I picked this up it was recommended as a Slice of Life LitRPG. It didn't need to be those genres but the story seemed to start heavy with the system, stats, levels, and progression. I think she has gained 2 levels in the entire series such that her lack of leveling for a prodigy and the youngest Master ever has come into conflict. The original system has been outpaced narratively, put aside, and possibly scrapped. Then there is the overall theme: Slice of Life, school life, action, adventure, horror, dystopia, macabre, etc. Normal wiring does meander a bit from time to time, but will usually stay overall in a theme as readers pick and stay with books that match their interests. Few overlap between carefree slice of life and demonic horror or torture. Just worried that there is direction for an arc without a cohesive plan to tie all the plotlines together.

LunaWolve

Don't listen to the idiot naysayers. Tell your story, my guy. We're here for that, not whatever those crybabies want. Been loving the actual consequences in the story recently. Far too many cookie-cutter bullshit novels out there, that just ignore any and call consequences for the main character. Don't let the vocal super-minority get to you.

Michael T

I do feel that the levels of peril/pain/danger have gotten a bit "I don't know what the author hopes I'm going to imagine here" Chapter 180: Literally dragged into hell by a devil to be tortured for all eternity. The worst thing she'd ever felt, fire burning her from the inside out, a delirium of agony. Me: OK, the most pain I can possibly imagine. Level infinity pain. Chapter 189: A pain like nothing she'd ever felt, as though her very being was being torn into. She could not imagine worse. Even just a few seconds of feeling her cores slip away from her was agony. Me: Even greater pain? Pain level infinity plus ten? Chapter 189 Evil Priest "I'm going to torture you regularly, sometimes it will be worse" Me: Worse than that? Level infinity plus twenty? Chapter 189 Arielle: "OK, deal." Me: What?

BlastYoBoots

(I thought that healing came from Elric.)

Basti

Loving the story so far! For the last couple of chapters one thing that may have made this have more of a harsher impact on the reader was also that it was two cliff hangers in a row, potentially more if you include all the tension build up. The two before the final test ended with the priest escalating the tension. Then the main payoff in terms of his reaction was that he informed us that she was very odd and is forcing her to be his test subject. There was no reveal or emotional catharsis. Normally in patterns with this story I feel we end up finding out something from a new perspective about Arielle, something another character may have missed, or just their baffled reaction itself already being quite satisfying as she upends their world view. Jade is a bit of an enigma in this in that while he has pronounced her as weird and a valuable test subject, he has not allowed us as readers to learn anything new (as of yet, at least), or shown much emotion at all. Which is interesting for characterization, but less so for payoff. There has been no real payoff for the excitement and tension that has been built over the last few chapters. Which isn’t a bad thing, but it does change the tone of the story and change patterns that we have learned to expect until now which can be a bit jarring. There were some lore details added which was nice to learn as readers, but it was more context then things that actively drove the plot forward or solved/helped to solve one of the mysteries Arielle is facing. On top of that we had the torture, it takes the patterns of the story in a direction that we as readers have not been used to experiencing, changing things to a darker tone. Maybe changing out some of the pain to fear would be more thematic? I think one thing that may have helped as payoff is to have Arielle actively learn something from this, or have a bit more of a hint that this was something that would help her advance in some category, that another attempt, or another few attempts would give her something that would one up the villain that is Jade. Especially as it ties in with a problem Ari has been having, which is that she doesn’t understand how her cores are effected by hybrids and some magic things we have seen. Her working through things or using the opportunity to learn something new, like we have seen from her in past adverse circumstances, would help give her some agency as the last few chapters she hasnt really made any decisions. Anyhow, love your work and I am very excited for the next arc either way and looking forward to how things will progress! Especially now that she is finally revealed to the wider world. Can't wait for more!

Alex Anderson

I guess we think about pain differently. I’d be amazed if anyone could handle level infinity pain. If the most pain Arielle had ever seen was a 5, and now this is more, that makes it 6. Not infinity. But the numbers here are beside the point. No one is actively comparing the different levels of pain while they experience it. It’s just normal hyperbole?

Arvid

I wouldn’t say any of the plotlines listed have been resolved. The author might argue that the elven kingdom is done but as a reader I consider it on the backburner with the elven orb making you remember it. Other plots have been resolved but I agree that to me it feels like a lot of early questions/mysteries have not been answered. Also didn’t like the pain part. The content but also the way it was written felt, to me, a bit incongruous with the story. Also not a fan of repeated torture sessions( you might not have intended that all sessions would be as painful , but I didn’t see any benefit to A to keep doing them except for being forced to do it)

Rip Woodham

A lot of the comments last chapter had me shaking my head, particularly the ones about this "torture." But I can understand not liking some things - the tone of the story where Arielle is constantly having to deal with one disaster after another, be exposed, and have unpleasant and unfair consequences come from it, for example. I actually don't like that either and feel this whole demon thing so soon is unnecessary but that ship has sailed.

Anotherb Account

Hard disagree with all negative sentiment, full support of letting you cook. The downside of week to week formats like this is people's inability to handle past change or arc dislike, but just a dissenting voice in case it's helpful

OakieTheTree

Love the story. Please keep sharing it with me. I agree with the comment saying it feels like we're torturing an autistic child. I think it takes so much for authors to do posts like this. Mad kudos. Seeing your replies I think you're going the right direction. Wish you the best

Liam Muro

I’ve now read the latest chapter (“Aftermath”). I failed to state explicitly that I have no concerns about where the story is going. I would love to see the occasional chapter reminiscent of the pacing/tone of the beginning, but understand that that desire likely stems from just finishing(?) an arc full of action. I am enjoying your story and look forward to reading more. Thank you!

Marcus Green

I think the term "lab rat" feels out of place. Beyond that, the chapter was solid and the direction of the story shouldn't be changed because a few readers got uncomfortable. We've spent multiple chapters repeatedly torturing demons to death and Gio massacring villages of demon children and the like and they're upset because they self insert too much into Arielle and not because anything here is out of character for this story.

normalperson123

If I had readers complaining about something like this, i might have to kill off a few main characters

onedayokay

I'll make sure to have more Arielle showing off in future chapters haha. I've missed that too

onedayokay

Oh thank you! Totally forgot about that

onedayokay

yeah, that makes sense. Honestly, I don't think I'm very good at writing litrpg as much as I enjoy them. I had an idea for the stats and the system and didn't realize that I didn't think them through until much later. So I decided to put it aside and retcon it once I had more of the story laid out so that I could fix it, but I keep redoing the fixes in my plan. It is in the works and will be rolled out soon. There's not going to be much torture though I promise. And I'm looking to resolve the demonic plot soonish. Thanks for reading!

onedayokay

Oh yeah the general direction won't necessarily be changed but I think I can tone down the torture since it wasn't even the point of the chapter. I just didn't realize it would be that off-putting. Oh and I'll try to find a better way to say labrat

onedayokay

Father Jade will be punished. He's pretty set up as the villain here and I don't want to spoil too much but I think it will be a fitting punishment :) Thanks!

onedayokay

Yeah still working on that and the way the system functions with regards to XP and levelling. I had an idea but I pelted it to a few people before I posted and found more holes so we're still working on it. Should have it ready soon. And a hidden ability marker, usually only occurs if you jump two or more positions. So as a Master Arielle would have to use a Legendary spell to show a hidden ability marker. As of now, only Gio and the Legendaries are shown to have legendary tier spells

onedayokay

Thank you. I appreciate the breakdown and the compliment 💕

onedayokay

Yeah I definitely did way too much on that last test, and I see what you mean by escalation. I debated having Arielle simply show off in these chapters and come out unscathed but that just didn't feel true to the story and it felt like there were no real consequences for her actions which made all of Elric's warnings earlier feel meaningless.

onedayokay

Well, the there is another plan in place, but I don't want to spoil things. It's Arielle bucking against the system but won't quite be full fledged revolution girl yet. She will handle things her way, as she always does :)

onedayokay

Thank you for this, this is really helpful. I think it makes the problem clearer and I can use it while revising the chapter and working on the new ones. She has grown more powerful, but like you said I haven't made it obvious at all. Hopefully the new stat thing will be ready soon and I can start quantifying her development, or at least portraying it more obviously. And yeah, that last chapter was problematic and will be fixed.

BlastYoBoots

Thanks to you too, I had a feeling you might appreciate some of that advice! I did still get the IMPLICIT sense between the lines that the Mansion battle’s practice PROBABLY made her far more powerful in ways we hadn’t seen demonstrated for how impressive they really were in a vacuum, especially in practice and synergizing talents and not losing the offense (her practical/training rough edges being sanded off dramatically), but they did lack the pop and “wow shiny new impossible thing” of fundamental breakthroughs that enhanced her general casting ability like when she adapted from the Phasewalkers for instance. I also expect we haven’t seen how effective she can be now that she’s “allowed” to use Master Tier spells without limit, which will be another upcoming plus that ought to ameliorate that sense a bit for everyone, I certainly hope! :D

John Smith

Yeah there's room to maneuver, but I think that's why there were negative reactions to those three trial chapters in particular. It didn't bode well with how much information was revealed about Arielle and how they treated her.

BlastYoBoots

I have been pretty confident for some time that Arielle will find a Third Option, a way to fix this unfair world that doesn’t give the High Ascendant much recourse but to either allow it to happen, or give away his game by challenging it in a way that proves to all onlookers that he cares more about keeping his hegemony than saving Earth. But that’s just speculation; given the thematic patterns the author is hinting at in that reply that have been reinforced throughout the story, I am VERY excited to see where it all eventually leads! :D

Nixia

Late to the party, and I really dont want to pile on because there's a bunch of people saying a bunch of things about this, but I think I have an idea what's going on here, and I need to type it *somewhere*. Feel free to ignore. Hidden powers as a trope functions by slowly building, with all the misunderstandings, impressive moments, lies, etc, towards the eventual big reveal. Excitement for that reveal is what makes it compelling, anticipation for that triumphant moment when the protag can fully let lose and be who they really are. Consequences can, and often should, come after, but only if they're narratively set up. You skipped both steps. She didn't get her moment of glory, where everyone saw her true self, because the entire fight took place with her either disguised or in another dimension. The narrative didn't set up any consequences because she never actually made a choice--she had to fight to her fullest or die. As a result, chapter 189 feels like undeserved suffering when readers are expecting a reward. Easiest fix would be in the iverson sequence to give Arielle a choice: reveal herself in front of everybody or someone might get hurt. Let Elric try and get her to run because exposing her abilities is too dangerous and she ignores him or something; make it clear she has alternatives and is choosing to reveal her abilities in order to save the day. Then let her save the day publicly, in front of everyone. That nets you both the payoff the grand reveal deserves and narratively justifies whatever consequences for Arielle ensue.

Tatiana

I think that the biggest problem with the dissatisfation is how it doesn't contextualize well with what we are used to the rest of the story. I feel like a lot of problems she lives through are relatable and the approach usually was more lighthearted. So introducing things like child torture and genocide goes against previous expectations. The shift was too sudden. It doesn't make sense for the people that cares for her to just accept it, not after trying to protect her all this time.