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TRIGGER WARNING: In-Depth Discussion on the depiction of SA at the end...

Be sure to let us know what we missed in the comments below.

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Katherine Strohm

Agree with all your takes on the scene. The Duke massively disrespected her and took advantage of her by not being honest with her. Obviously, in today's standards Daphne should have discussed her concerns with him, but who knows if he would have actually been honest with her ever considering how he skirted around the kids issue in previous conversations. But yes in the book the scene is way worse because he is drunk and almost asleep when she does it which I am glad they took out of the show.

AnLoingseach

While what Daphne did was wrong, Simon did pretty much the same thing by withholding vital information that would most likely have affected Daphne's decision to have sex with him.

Kiana

I understand what you guys are saying concerning Marina . However what stops me short of being on Marina’s side is the lying and manipulation of Colin. Yes marina needs to do this for the survival of her and her baby. It’s still lying and a form of manipulation to me. When it comes what Marina said to Penelope . I think her delivery of what she said to Penelope as someone who came to her as a friend and was genuinely trying to help her was harsh and why some people took it as harsh. That being said though I understand why she said those things. Just like in return I understand why Penelope felt like she had to do what she did in the end . When it comes to Marina situation it’s a gray area for me. I understand both sides . I understand Marina side of things and Penelope’s side. In truth I think that both are wrong and right at the same time if that makes sense

Emmi

But she has 0 way of knowing that Colin is someone who would accept her she is in a time where she kind of has no choice but to be manipulative or her entire life is over she's forced into a corner

Kiana

Like I said before. I understand why Marina has to be manipulative but that doesn’t make it less manipulative or lying just because of her intentions . She’s still lying to him and trapping him into a marriage without his knowledge or consent. Also if Marina believes that Colin to be a gentleman and a good person and to for him to be in love with her like she claims she does then she shouldn’t she have more respect/belief in Colin to marry her despite the fact that she’s already pregnant by another man ?

Pepper

I appreciate the discourse at the end so much!

Emmi

Exactly this

The Pink Popcast Patreon

I guess what we're saying is we don't pick sides - we just understand. By today's standards, what she did was lie and manipulate... but in that world, women - especially black women with no means, title or money - would be treated as less than human. I might not be "on her side" in a present, celebratory "You go girl" sense - but I can't find myself to be mad at that character's decisions. I also don't really engage in thought experiments like this when it comes to a fictional character. I've always been the annoying friend (lol) who couldn't answer a simple "Would you rather this or that?" hypothetical without responding with a thousand follow-up questions of my own to understand why I'm being forced to choose between two options lol. My friends always got annoyed at me. "Just play along" but I couldn't (maybe it's being on the spectrum) possibly answer a hypothetical without understanding THE WORLD. And since they couldn't answer the hypotheticals, I would simply refuse to engage with their question...... that was a tangent, lol. But basically I'm saying I've never been good at treating fiction as black or white as I treat reality. In real-present day life, I 10000000000% agree with you. And I also validate your present day desire to NOT root for a character like Marina......... but despite all the extremely valid points you've made, I can't muster anything more than a shrug because their fictional decisions neither bother me nor feel like they're close enough to a present day reality I experience to trigger me. Hopefully no one is watching this show and taking cues from those characters tho lololol because 2025 is a TOTALLY different world than theirs lol Hopefully you were able to hear my good nature in this comment. I love what you posted!

Kiana

I totally understand and respect your opinion. And thank you for your kind words about my previous post. I wasn’t sure if what I said made any sense at all or if it came across rude lol. I’m not against Marina or hate marina. It’s just when there’s moments or scenes where they show us the audience just how desperate and serious her situation is . I feel myself being more and more on her side but then it stops when there’s another scene of her and Colin talking like in this episode where she’s being deliberately deceptive and in the back of my mind I can’t help but think that as serious as her situation is and she’s only doing this to survive. That it still doesn’t make it right. I guess for me it would be one thing if she had told him about her being pregnant and he went and married her anyways . Then I would still feel bad for Penelope but I would still feel more at ease with Marina and Colin.

The Pink Popcast Patreon

Fully get that. We definitely already filmed all this reactions already so you might hear us discuss it more and while we still fall into the "Don't think was Marina was doing is wrong" camp, I validate you as a viewer having a different reaction and opinion to that!!!! <3

Amara C

Sooo did Simon's dad never get remarried? You think that if he was that concerned about having an heir he would get remarried and try to have more children...just a thought that I didn't think about until this rewatch

Kiss the Librarian

I don't think it's about "being on Marina's side." It's acknowledging the gray area of Marina having to make a false choice in an oppressive society. On her side or not, none of her options are good, and so one can have compassion for her.

Kiss the Librarian

Gotta have "informed" and "enthusiastic" consent. We were watching a bunch of rape all over that house lol yeesh Looking forward to adaptations of romance novels that don't do the bodice ripping rape trope or the clueless virgin trope. Season two was the only one that did neither.

Emma Lijewski

I appreciate the nuanced discourse around Simon and Daphne, it gets really frustrating on the internet because a lot of discussion lacks nuance and people often forget to think in terms of in the context of the time period. I did mention on a previous episode of your rewatch that in the book from what i remember Simon's manipulation feels way worse because we see the wedding night from his POV and Daphne says something that implies that she doesn't know anything. Then Simon does think perfect, she doesn't know anything so I can make sure we don't have kids. Also THE scene happens because Daphne figures out Simon was lying to her, so she confronts him. They argue and he leaves angry and goes out drinking. He comes back drunk and falls asleep. I will admit when rewatch Bridgerton I don't watch season 1 because I can't with the mutually toxic relationship.

Erin Voner

I agree with what you guys are saying about that scene. Though Daphne should’ve gone to Simon and asked him about what was going on once she found out, at that point she didn’t trust him to tell her the truth after lying to her/withholding information for as long as he did. The part that makes me the most upset is that he says he thought she knew. Watching this back with you guys and you pointing out the times that Simon has to teach Daphne about sex makes what Simon said even more out of line. As much as that scene gets spoken about, the one that shocked me more was their first sex scene in the previous episode. I understand that Daphne was giving consent the entire time, but it always makes me feel weird that she didn’t know what she was consenting to. I’m sure that if she told Simon to stop, he would’ve. He understands the context and that this might be scary for her. But she could’ve easily been in a situation where he wasn’t asking and she didn’t know how to tell him no. And I think that is kind of reflected in this episode. Without the subtitles on, it’s hard to tell that Simon is telling Daphne to “wait” in the scene. I don’t think Daphne would have known that Simon was trying to say stop, or read his facial expressions because she didn’t know what his expressions meant. And I understand that he looked panicked, but her goal was to see if he was lying to her, so to her his panic is probably what she was expecting to see. But I don’t think she was trying to take advantage of him, just trying to prove a point (even if we know that it was a poor way to execute that). They’ve never had to tell each other no before or set proper boundaries. Both scenes are a bit uncomfortable and make it hard for me to watch Daphne and Simon’s season as often as I could watch the others. But I really appreciate you guys doing a rewatch and breaking this down for us!

Amara C

I know that the maid implies that Simon's dad had "bad seed" but there is never even a mention of a 2nd wife and he obviously didn't love her from the actions we saw in the birth scene a couple episodes back so it's not like grief was holding him back

Kiana

In my original post I did acknowledge that all of it including what Penelope did is a very gray area . And said that I think that both are right and wrong. I do have compassion for her . I just think morally speaking I’m finding it really difficult to get behind her decision to lie and to trick Colin

emmaline

im so excited for the season 3 rewatch...mostly because i think you guys are going to be fighting about colin the whole time

Louise Poole 🍂

Wow these comments really pass the vibe check. As did your discussions. I was really expecting everyone to be up in arms hating on daphne, I'm pleasantly surprised!

Jessi

Thank you!!

Tiff

The scene with Colin and Anthony has a huge effect on Colin. Colin’s instincts backfire so he defaults to the idea of what a real man in this world is to essentially Anthony in s1. He sleeps with women casually and visits brothels because his true personality got him nearly entrapped. He was manipulated and told that he was loved and he believed it because of his good nature. So when shit goes wrong, he concludes that being himself will lead to him being fooled. It’s why he takes Penelope being Whistledown so hard — it’s a trauma response, one that he “put on armor” to shield himself from experiencing again.

Tiff

Also Colin being “fine” about Marina loving someone else is an indicator that he isn’t truly in love with her. Colin cannot deal with Penelope even possibly liking someone else. Additionally note that George is a first son (Pen tells him) and Colin is a third son. This is an important detail and Colin is definitely conscious that his status is generally less desirable, so he thinks her choosing him to marry her is significant. It comes back with Debling being titled and why it matters to Debling that Pen has feelings for Colin. He is above Colin in rank therefore he is the more desirable.

Tiff

Oh and reminder that Genevieve could’ve possibly figured it out by now since she knows the measurement changes so thats planted as a possibility. And Rizzo I love your rant at the end snaps

Kat Newman

I agree with you on the change from the book. Either way it puts Daphne in the same position of not understanding anything about sex and consent. Iirc, he’s drunk and half-asleep in the book, but he’s also telling her he wants to have sex and making it seem (to HER, given what SHE knows) that it’s not a problem to proceed. The one thing I liked from the book is in that scenario, she wasn’t trying to “force” him to finish inside her. She was just in the moment of having sex with her husband and because of the state he was in, he didn’t pull out like he normally does. So there wasn’t any level of “manipulation” or testing him to see if he’s lying like in the show.

Lizeth Quispe

Colin was such a cute character, what have they done?? What I dont like him in season 3=?? I dont get it. Colin was so earnest and willing to do everything for her "love one" ): And i Support Marina, bc i support womens rights and womens wrongs :D

Peyton B

Did Simon know about the butcher contact prize though? He doesn’t seem to know much about running Clyvedon, and even if he did spend time there as a kid, it doesn’t seem like he was going to fairs. Edit: haha, they bring this up later