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[CLOSED] - The Harry Potter Book Club! - Your Notes for Chapters 5 & 6 of The Order of the Phoenix! (Patreon)

Published:
2025-04-03 17:45:13
Edited:
2025-04-30 12:28:47
Imported:
2026-08
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Content

THIS PART OF THE BOOK CLUB IS NOW COMPLETE! Thanks for taking part and see you next time! :)

Oof-Tee-Poof, everyone!! 👋

Here is a chance to get your comment read out in the next Book review video!

If you are reading along with the reviews, we are covering chapters "The Order of the Phoenix" & "The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black"! So if you have any thoughts, opinions, comparisons or questions regarding these, please leave a comment below!

I do have to ask, try to keep them fairly short, like 4 or 5 sentences.  That way I can cover more when making the video.  Also try to keep them on subject and not referencing anything that we are yet to cover. Ideally, keep it to 1 comment each if you can (if you have more to say after commenting, you can edit it and add to it! :) ).  These are just rough guidelines rather than rules, I want to be able to fit in as many of you as possible! :)

NEW FEATURE!! - As some of you may want to make a comment, but not have it replied to by others, you can now Message me your thoughts on the chapters by DM'ing me on here.  If you do, please follow all the above rules, especially avoiding mentioning things in future chapters or books!  Oh and please start your DM message with "Book Club -"!

To anyone that does reply to comments below, please make sure you are being friendly and respectful!  A lot of tone and meaning can be lost in text, after all!  If you disagree with someone on something, keep it polite and remember the golden rule in life - Sometimes you have to just agree to disagree! :)

Thanks, guys!! :)

Files

Comments

Andrew K

Hey Veggie! Sirius is completely different to the films, isn’t he? Did it surprise you to see this more bitter and resentful side after Gary Oldman’s performance? I love these shades of grey, and the argument between he and Molly is such an amazing scene. I see both sides, but also see the flaws in both their points (so much so that I can’t actually pick who I agree with more! Maybe slightly siding with Molly as she seems to have Harry’s welfare more in mind) - it develops both their characters. I really like how unlikable Sirius becomes, and it makes sense given the trauma from prison, and being trapped in the home he despised for his childhood. It’s crazy how much happier he was living in a cave with Buckbeak and eating rats, it likely felt way more free and adventurous for him. Chapter 6 is one of my favourites. Nothing big happens plot-wise, but I love the amount of information we get about world building, Sirius’ family, pure-blood lineages, Harry’s grandparents, Kreacher, and more. It’s one of those chapters I just get lost in, and it’s such a great escape. I love the detail of Kingsley leading Sirius’ investigation and providing false leads to the Ministry. P.S. favourite Mania match/moment?

Alias93

Hi Veggie! Sirius seems much colder to Harry in these chapters, nothing like we saw in the movie. I think the movie portrays the book 4 version of Sirius we didn't get to see on screen since he only had that one scene in the fireplace. Do you think his attitude will change throughout this book? Him and Mrs Weasley do not seem to like each other very much, with very different ideas on how to be a parental figure to Harry. I like all the details about the process of cleaning the house. After being in a wizarding family's house for the first time in CoS, Harry now finds himself in the house of a family that was much closer to the dark arts. I think it's very important for the story of this book that this house is so unwelcoming compared to the Burrow. I love how Phineas Nigellus is described as ''the least popular headmaster Hogwarts ever had''... having him announce that Quidditch is cancelled right at the beginning of Hogwarts Legacy was pretty much in character then. And the first mention of Regulus. It's kind of wild that Sirius is related both to the Malfoys and the Weasleys.

Kunzite Blossom

I love Molly, don't get me wrong. But her treatment to Sirius saddens me. I get she treats Harry like a son and wants to protect him, but Sirius is his godfather. Now while that doesn't necessarily mean they become the legal guardian if the parents die, it does mean they are the one meant to be the child's source of guidance and parents can designate that person to become the child's guardian. So I think Sirius should have more of a say over Molly when it comes to Harry. Plus we know when times needed it, Harry went to Sirius for help over Molly. I think Molly does realize this when she sees Harry pick Sirius and listen to him. Harry knows it hurt her because he can't even look at her after that. But Sirius knew better then to leave Harry in the dark and would have told him everything if he could (More on that in later chapters). He knew Harry needed to be told something, maybe seeing the anger Harry felt was something Sirius related to. Sirius was now a prisoner in that house just as Harry was in Privet Drive. (though Harry had some freedom to at least leave the house but he wasn't told anything) Though I get Molly just being a protective parent and not wanting to see her "baby" grow up she has to understand Harry is not a normal 15 year old after all he's been through. Edit: Also, I realized I totally missed the last book club! February and March were not good months for me, so sad to know I missed it. I won't (hopefully) miss another!

K

Hi Veggie! What did you make of Sirius's attitude in these chapters? Movie Sirius almost always acts like a wise adult role model. Book Sirius acts like a traumatized man with a horrible upbringing who ran away from home at 16, fought in a war as a teen/young adult, lost everyone important to him at 21, and then immediately spent 13 years in a torture prison having all of his happy memories drained away (and also mostly as a dog). He cares fiercely about Harry but in my opinion he never really aged past his 21-year-old self and we get to see some of that immaturity here. Harry and Sirius seem to have a lot of similarities in their attitude and behaviour at the moment. In Goblet Sirius talks about Crouch mistreating his house elf and how that speaks poorly of his character. It's a very interesting hypocrisy that he's so unkind to Kreacher. To me it's another sign of being trapped in an eternal adolescence of sorts-- I don't think he sees Kreacher as a vulnerable being that he has power over, but rather as a representative of the family that mistreated him as a child.

Jake M

S'mae Woozle and Veggie! Hope you're both well. Chapter 5 "I've been stuck inside for a month" - Sirius would've gone stir crazy in 2020, then! If only he had Dudley's time-travelling PlayStation for company... Stealth pun alert! Harry was "impatient with [Mrs Weasley's] mollycoddling." Is it just coincidence that her first name is Molly, or was that a hint towards her character all along, like Lupin being a wolf and Sirius a dog? Chapter 6 Sirius says he hates being back here- which begs the question, where was he planning on Harry living, when he offered him a home in Prisoner of Azkaban? I'm interested to know- did you find the detail of their cleaning escapades interesting, or a bit needless? Finally, let's reprise the "replace 'wand' with 'willy'" game from an earlier book club! Courtesy of Molly Weasley, forgetting she's talking to two teenage boys: "FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE! YOU DON'T HAVE TO WHIP YOUR WILLIES OUT FOR EVERY TINY LITTLE THING!"

Grace

I think I'd believe Fred and George saying "size is no guarantee of power" in the movie. Ginny is shown to be very powerful even in the films, it's just that they gave her no personality :(

CDMellow

Ohayo Veggie! The tension between Molly and Sirius in this chapter was intense—honestly, they were about two seconds away from tearing each other apart. I have to admit, when Molly brought up Azkaban, absolutely savage. One thing that stuck with me was Molly's comment about Harry not being James like Sirius is projecting James onto Harry. Something of thus effect was in the movie, during the Department of Mysteries scene, where Sirius calls Harry “James.” Think about it: after James and Lily were killed, Sirius was thrown straight into Azkaban. Now, this might be a hot take, but Azkaban is probably not the best place to process grief and trauma. If anything, it would’ve made everything worse. Then, when he escaped, he was constantly on the run or in hiding—again, not exactly ideal circumstances for healing. Considering how close Sirius was to James—and how he was essentially family with the Potters—it makes sense that he’d cling to any trace of them he could find. Harry, in many ways, is that trace. So it’s understandable, even if it’s not healthy, that Sirius might start to blur the line between Harry and James. It just makes his whole situation feel a lot more tragic. Anyway all the best to you and Woozle

Annamarie schwirian

Hey veggie Glad to be on this book it's got some of my favorite scenes that didn't make it into the movie. One in which I will talk about shortly. 1rst chapter 5 is a chapter I feel truly shows how different people think of Harry. Hermione cares deeply and hates hurting his feelings. Molly wants to protect him at any cost like one of her own. Sirius and Lupin understand that Harry is his father's child , so if they don't give him the info he wants he will just put himself in danger to find it out. I love this chapter for showing so many peoples different attitudes toward Harry. Quickly chapter 6 has a movie moment that was sorta blown off in the movies, that's the family tree. I think the tree is super important in understand chacters in the future and the movie showed it but just blew it off as antidotal in my opinion.

SavageKim

Hi Veggie! Last book club it was rather perfect timing... you read my first comment about wand safety, right after knocking your hand with your wand ;) please be careful! But your Beaker impression was spot on! On to the current club: I love all the small details about the world and characters we learn in these chapters. Ch 5 I really appreciated Lupin's measured words during the heated argument between Black and Molly. I see both sides, or maybe more specifically, I understand the reasons behind both their emotions. But I think Molly went a bit far attacking his ability to "parent" Harry from prison. It's not like he chose to be there instead of caring for Harry. Ch6 I liked all the side info we get during the cleaning, or as Harry perfectly described it: "waging war on the house". Especially the details about how Fred and George are really smart at inventing joke shop stuff. Brief mention of Buckbeak! And we learn that Lupin is staying there with Black, he's just gone a lot. Hope you are well!

Ashley Evers

Ooftypoof Veggie and Woozle! I love Mundungus basically telling Sirius that he’s thinking about robbing him 🤣 I guess Sirius doesn’t really care, but it still feels like he could be more subtle 🤣 It must be strange for Harry to go from having no caring parental figures to a room full of people fighting over who cares about him the most. Weird in a nice way, I guess 🤣 Both Molly and Sirius have such understandable viewpoints, although I do agree with Molly that Sirius seems to be more interested in sympathizing with Harry than protecting him. And of course it’s Lupin who understands both points of view and finds a compromise. MVP, for sure 🤣 I actually don’t feel like they end up telling Harry anything they shouldn’t just tell all the kids. Nothing he learns is more traumatizing or dangerous than living with the uncertainty and fear. Can you imagine the calm and comforting Gary Oldman version of Sirius saying half the things he says in these chapters? This Sirius is very realistically angry and resentful and not great at dealing with those feelings given his experiences. I feel like it’s comforting for Harry to have Sirius so clearly understand and share his feelings, but I also wonder if it makes him feel more justified in his own anger. And we get to meet Kreacher! Hermoine’s perspective here is that Kreacher is essentially the victim of brainwashing. She doesn’t think that mounting House Elf heads is a good idea, just that you can’t blame Kreacher for his beliefs and behavior. He’s just doing what all House Elves are expected to do, agree with everything their Master’s say. He seems to genuinely love Sirius’ parents, which is fascinating.

Howiedoing

Hey veggie and woozle At some point in these chapters mentions Harry is still wearing hand-me-down clothes which really makes no sense to me he has money now he can surely afford new clothes or somehow get muggle clothing. It’s the wrong decision for Molly not to want them to know more but it’s a decision any caring mother would make. PS I also forgot to ask in the last book club. Do you think Grindelwald is a Metamorphmagus or just extremely good with human transfiguration? We see him a few times flawlessly changing appearance in the Fantastic Beast films.

jolt45

What's up Veggie? It is my pleasure to inform you that you have officially passed the halfway point in the series in terms of the number of chapters. There are a total of 199 Harry Potter chapters. Chapter 100 overall in the series is Ch. 6 - "The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black". In terms of word count, there are a grand total of 1,084,170 words in the English edition of the books. The middle pair of words are the 82,110th and 82,111th in this book which should be around chapter 12 or 13. I can't be bothered to figure out which ones they are. Anyways. These chapters are great for character and world building even though not much happens. I can't believe Molly would hold Black's time in Azkaban over his head like that! It's a bridge too far in my opinion. Also, I don't recall how much you already knew about Sirius' extended family. Did you know that Tonks and Draco were first cousins before reading this chapter? Or that Bellatrix is their dear sweet auntie?

Alicia P

Hi, Veggie! I love both these chapters so much! Chapter 6 is probably one of my top favorites in the whole series. I love the world-building and Harry learning how interrelated all of the families are. I love hearing about all the insane artifacts lying around Grimmauld Place. I love hearing about the comings and goings of the Order members. Speaking of, WHY is Mundungus a full-fledged Order member? Can’t they just use him as a source from time to time? The man is openly casing the joint every time we see him. I’m SMH over here at a lot of Dumbledore’s decisions in this book 😆 Sooo many parallels being drawn between Sirius and Harry: their childhood home lives, their feelings of being trapped in the last place they’d ever want to be and cut off from events, their resentments toward Dumbledore. Lastly, the convo between Harry, Ron, and the twins after the Order meeting, where they are wondering about what type of weapon Voldy might be going after, is so chilling. You start to feel how scary it really is to be aligned against Voldy. Every member of the Order is taking serious risks just being in that house, not to mention what they will start having to do in the world outside. The kids are starting to realize that the consequences could be very dire. As Ron asks, What’s worse than death? Well, a lot actually, Ron.

Jo Winters

Hello Veggie! I mentioned before that I have many cats (because I rescue those that nobody wants), and have two Dobbys. Well now I have 'The Cornish Pixies' composed of sisters Pixie and Chaos. More Potter themed cats! Chapter 5 What is Mundungus smoking there? Now we can see that Sirius and Harry are in a somewhat similar situation. Harry knows nothing, and Sirius cannot do anything. They are both bitter about it and both love to take action. Sometimes traumatic events can arrest a person at certail level of development, I think that's why Sirius is more of an older brother to Harry than a father figure. I remember that when I first read this, I was so annoyed with Mrs Weasley. I feel like the ship of keeping Harry ignorant has sailed, and keeping someone in the dark is no protection, in my opinion—not in this situation. It's such a stronger scene than it was in the movie, though! Chapter 6 I personally loved all the scenes of them fighting with the house, and I wished they had at least shown some mash-up sequence of them! It adds a lot of atmosphere to the world they live in. I always wonder how does it feel for Tonks' mom to have Bellatrix and Narcissa for sisters and these people you grew up with being that way.

Diego Zenhäusern

Wow, I love that you took the time to look up thestuff about where the middle of the series is...that's such a cool fun fact! Also: I've read the series like 10 times and never realized that Tonks and Draco would be so closely related as well🙈😅

Diego Zenhäusern

The funny thing is that Sirius would probably give Mundungus all the silverware for free (or at least in exchange for a set of "normal" tableware) if he actually asked😂

Diego Zenhäusern

WFFTITWFF Veggie! A lot of people are giving Lupin credit for being the voice of moderation and reason in chapter 5. And while I think that's absolutely true, I also want to point out that Arthur is doing the same thing in this chapter: Arthur is the first one to point out (even before Lupin does so!) that Harry deserves/ needs to know more but not everything. And he's also the one to point out to Molly that Fred and George are legally adults now and have a right to get at least some measure of independence and choice in the situation (i.e. getting to stay in the kitchen for the explanation). So I'd like to give Arthur some well deserved credit here! Also: Kreacher muttering and insulting everyone under his breath is probably my favorite comedic bit in these chapters. I know what he's saying is horrible and actually no laughing matter. But the way he delivers it is just so funny to me😅🙈 Plus: It's actually him being really smart!!! Because he's using the "loophole" of "pretending not to see people" or "pretending he doesn't know people can hear him" in order to insult people even though Sirius has forbidden him to directly insult anyone.

Kattie Martin

Hi Veggie! So as a kid I was annoyed along with Harry at Molly but I understand her desire to protect the kids for as long as possible. Also, sorry to burst your bubble but 15 is still a kid Harry. I definitely enjoyed learning more about the house and it’s oddities. Wonder how many items are going to “find” their way into Mundungus’s “business dealings” Oh and the boys are just whipping their wands out for everything which doesn’t surprise me considering their personalities. Oh and bonus points to Arthur for putting his foot down.

Garfnob

Greetings, Chapter – 5 - permanent sticking charm is a problem how? Remove the plaster, drywall, or whatever the wall covered in. Then patch the hole. - it is not up to Blank to decide what is good for Harry? Is that not the exact job of the god parents? On that note who is Harrys god mother? - the first BIG mistake by the order. Chapter – 6 - Lots of important details, but non I can point out at this time (spoilers).

Josh Z

I think that my favorite bit from these chapters is the unity of the trio. Ron is confident that he and Hermione will hear everything from Harry anyway and so not letting them stay is pointless. We see that he briefly considers not telling them but ultimately confirms Ron's assumptions, which shows that Harry recognizes the value of the two most important people in his life and that many of the threats he has faced they also faced with him. Just a nice little moment

S1lm4r1l

Many people will praise Lupin's mediation of Molly and Sirius' argument, so I won't focus on that. It is easy to forget that Lupin taught Fred and George as well during Book 3. He knows they are spying on the meetings, he knows what they are capable of. He knows Harry is going to find out, one way or another. It must've been so hard for Lupin and Sirius to hear Molly's "as good as a son" declaration, especially as she didn't know Lily or James. Molly is so caring she even attempts to keep Sirius occupied and active, whilst he's stuck there. Toujour Pur is French for "Always Pure" a pretty big red flag. Is Kreacher a product of his environment or is he actually malevolent? In book 3 Sirius was perfectly happy to offer Harry a new home. But now he wants to avoid the topic. Why? *Might Edit*

S1lm4r1l

Spoiler protection.

S1lm4r1l

Sirius doesn't talk about Crouch mistreating Winky. He questions that Crouch sacked her for a seemingly innocuous misdemeanour. He knows that to sack a House Elf is an extreme and unusual measure to take. You can simply order your House Elf to punish themselves. You're right about Kreacher being the last living reminder of the family he hated. (Aside from Bellatrix and Narcissa obviously.)

Maria

Hi Veggie, These are great chapters! I especially love chapter six; it's really enjoyable to see these small, "normal" moments, where our characters are doing ordinary things like cleaning up the house. The house itself is kind of like a character in these chapters. It's almost Dickensian; it reminds me of Satis House in Great Expectations. Plus, it's good to hear that Buckbeak is in the house. It's also fascinating to hear more about Sirius' childhood and family tree. What do you think of his connections to the Malfoys and the LeStrange family? I'm sure that's psychologically difficult for Sirius. Also, I know that Kreacher isn't very nice to our main characters, but I kind of love him. So entertaining.

Alias93

[spoilers below]

Alias93

Or Dumbledore wants Sirius safe because he knows Harry might do something stupid if he gets captured. The dynamic in this book is more Harry feeling responsible for Sirius than the other way around, sadly.

S1lm4r1l

I don't disagree with that assertion, but I can't help but think there's other reasons for Dumbledore's restrictions. Voldemort wants to hear the prophecy and to know about the connection between the wands. He can't kidnap Olivander yet, but Dumbledore desperately wants to avoid Sirius falling into his hands. Sirius's position in Order is the inverse of Goblet. In Goblet, he was able to meaningfully give practical help and advice whilst remaining emotionally distant. In Order, he is completely unable to provide tangible help and yet is increasingly expected to provide Harry with emotional support.

S1lm4r1l

Perhaps the Permanent sticking charm does not attach 1 thing to another. Perhaps it attaches it to the air.

S1lm4r1l

The home Kreacher has lived in for decades suddenly has dozens of people walking in and out. Moving things, throwing stuff out. Never mind that half these people are people Kreacher is massively prejudicial against. I think Kreacher has a right to be upset.

S1lm4r1l

Its Sirius that decides to invite Mundungus for dinner, not Dumbledore. I guess his information is more reliable, or he has a more vested interest to tell the truth if he is in the Order.

Garfnob

that would be a problem.

S1lm4r1l

For the record, I think it does work how everyone thinks. Otherwise Harry could just Expelliarmus Voldy and Permanent sticking charm his wand to a nearby rabbit or something.

S1lm4r1l

Sirius can't do anything except be Harry's Godfather at the moment. And Molly wants to take even that away from him and openly questions his capability to be Godfather and his love for Harry. Very sad.

Alicia P

Oh true, but I was more referring to Mundungus being in the Order as a full-fledged member, which obviously Dumbledore is in charge of. He doesn't seem to care more about doing a good job at anything being in the Order, considering he abandoned his guard duty over Harry and considering everything we know that will happen in future.

Madikuma95

Hi Veggie! I think the movie took Tonks morphing her nose into a beak or pig snout too literally, as the book compares her nose to Snape's and Dudley's, rather than actual animal faces. I agree with Sirius! Harry's not a child, he's a young man whose proven himself against Voldemort multiple times and deserves some information. I love this line: "They were really waging war on the house, which was putting up a very good fight." Grimmauld Place has such a personality and atmosphere! Everyone working together to clean feels oddly cozy. And the dark artifacts they find are cool in a creepy way! Kreacher is such a fascinating character. He's of 'lower status', being a house-elf, yet openly insults others of 'lower status'. I think Hermione is being naïve; Kreacher is smart and knows exactly what he's saying! (And honestly I find him kinda funny. 😂) Are you surprised by anyone in Sirius's family tree?

Garfnob

no matter how it works, that would be a plan. Permanent Sticking Charm to a solid, heavy object. unless Permanent Sticking Charm takes time, like enchanting other objects. P.S. witch way does everyone think it works?

Florian

Hi Veggie, interesting chapters we have here, I really felt like the moment Mrs. Weasly proclaims Harry is pretty much like a son to her, is so emotional, even if it was a very brief moment. I think the Sirius vs Mrs. Weasly fight was also very interesting in a whole. What do you think about the orders tactics to combat Voldemort.

Florian

Spoiler protection

S1lm4r1l

I agree. But perhaps the Order have no other criminal/underworld connections. So Mundungus is all they have in that regard.

S1lm4r1l

Cast the charm on a wall. Stick up whatever you want and it'll never come down. Or cast the charm on the object and attach where-ever you like. Given what we know about spells. It is possible that "permanent" doesn't mean forever. The charm might wear off eventually.

Alicia P

Sure, I just still don't see the reason to make him a full member. Law enforcement use criminal / underworld sources all the time but they don't add them to the police force, you know?

Alias93

Could also be that they don't have the numbers to afford not making him a full member and giving him important tasks like watching over Harry, with other members already being assigned to guard the prophecy, and many of them being limited by their jobs/personnal situation like Arthur, Lupin and Sirius.

S1lm4r1l

Dumbledore is inherently mistrustful. The only people he lets in the Order are those he has vetted personally. Besides, it is quite clear that Dumbledore doesn't actually use the Order for anything meaningful. Only to give the semblance of combatting Voldemort. Other people likely have day jobs, Mundungus doesn't.

Targor

Hi Veggie! this is my first time posting here. I've been following your book reviews since the beginning and have just caught up. Thank you so much for doing that. It's a bit like reliving the first time I listened to the books, maybe with a bit (or much) more attention to detail, and a lot of tangents. These two chapters show Sirius in a very different state than the movie character, and it's more realistic that way. As usual, the good guys in the movies have to be good guys, and negative character traits are mostly ignored. Also: I love the house cleaning and all the little cool details there, including some awesome foreshadowing. One last fun fact for today: I am blind and usually listen to the audio books. However, they are also available in Braille. Since Braille letters are very large, and the paper on which they are printed is so thick, Braille books are usually split into many volumes. If they wouldn't have split Order of the Phoenix, the German Braille book would have been over one metre thick.

H

Yes, Grindelwald looked totally different in the third film! And the acting was suddenly better as well! :-)

Howiedoing

Not really talking about the fact that he changed actors more or less that he changed from graves to Grindelwald in the beginning of the second movie he also changed to Abernathy

Gugurupurasu Daikirai

Hello Vegetable Game Player and always lovely Woozle, Ch 5: Mundungus or "Dung" has one of my favorite nicknames period. I will also point out something people who have read this before frequently forget. This chapter explains why he is in the Order, it's specifically because he is a criminal so he is in tune with the criminal world which can be very useful at times. Dumbledore choosing Dung to look over Harry may just be some proof of why Dumbledore wasn't a member of my house, Ravenclaw. Even if you ignore the first four letters of his surname Ch 6: We finally meet Kreacher. I thought there were some pretty questionable takes about house elves in the comments of some of your previous videos but bit my tongue because spoilers. Kreacher, aside from being an important character in general, (JK Rowling insisted they added him to this movie because it was released before the last book was released) is also very important when it comes to understanding how house elves really work. For now I'll just point out that Dobby was not unique when it comes to being unhappy with his master(s) at some point. I'm very curious to hear your first impressions about him. I like Gary Oldman but I hated the movie's take on the family tree scene in many ways, wrong tone and no mention of Sirius going over his late little brother, Regulus's story. Oh yeah, headmaster Phineas Nigellus Black is book canon too, not to mention some other interesting details on the family tree...

PumpkinSparks

Heya Veggie and, my love, Woozle! Wow, chapter 6 really hits differently reading it right now. When it says that Harry sort of welcomed the business and only started to worry and spiral during the few quite hours? I never related more to him. One of my best friends unexpectedly passed last week, and luckily I was too busy to fall apart - amounting more than 20 hours of overtime plus helping my (soon former) roommate to move out kind of busy. And yeah, I agree, it's the quiet moments that kill you. I see you, Harry! That being said, more than ever I do not understand Dumbledore. He is supposed to be the smartest person ever, who lived a long life, is a leader of his peers, a counselor for important people in tough times - he should understand how people work. Yet he decided it's best to keep Harry at the Dursleys (I'm convinced, if the Dementors didn't happen, Harry would have stayed the whole summer) AND forbade everyone to tell him just the slightest bit of information. Seriously, that would be torture for anyone. But he's also a hormonal teenager! And then he also basically imprisoned Black. A man who was in jail during a critical formative period of his life and who is emotionally probably stuck in his early 20s with a whole bunch of trauma and PTSD stacked on top of that. And you imprison him in a house that holds a lot of traumatic memories? DUMBLEDORE, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? I understand the pure logic behind these decisions, but they are people! With feelings! Please take that into account!?! You created your own powder keg to explode! Merlins beard!!! Also, as most people seem to do, I understand both Mollys and Blacks stand. While I think Molly is too overprotective and Black too haphazard (again, developmentally early 20s) I genuinely agree with Arthurs and Lupins approach. Generally I fly under the flag of: "if they are old enough to ask the question, they are old enough for an answer." Obviously I would always cater the answer to the age. Like, when my 4 year old niece asked me where babies come from, I didn't explain to her in detail the intimate interlocking of two bodies. But she asked the question, she gets an answer. Same goes for these kids. Yes, 15 (and 14 if we include Ginny) is still a child. But they are obviously old enough to understand what is going on and ask questions about it. They deserve an answer! And I think the answers they got in the kitchen are good and appropriate. And they deserved them much sooner! Also also, Molly, please stop reprimanding the twins for their amount of wand use. Is it excessive? Yes! BUT Arthur enchanted some knives to cut potatoes - and then stood next to it supervising their work. It's not like he did do something else simultaneously. Molly balanced a tray of sandwiches on her wand. You guys could have used your hands for that! How is that not "whipping out your wand for everything"? Sorry, this got really long. I get even more rant-y when I'm irritated....... Edited for some really stupid german auto-corrects I didn't catch in time................

K

-spoilers-

K

So sorry for your loss. I think Dumbledore's fatal flaw is not understanding how to manage people's emotions. He went astray very early in life as a result of his own "selfish" desires, with devastating consequences, and now he sees any concession to personal needs over the greater good as misguided and dangerous. That bias clouds his ability to accurately assess the situation with Sirius and see that the "strategically sound" thing to do is actually likely to lead to the worse outcome. The tragedy of it is that I think he's actually a man with a lot of compassion and caring and in his heart he truly empathizes with Harry and Sirius and wants to give them what they want... but his head is so twisted up that the very fact that he wants to give into it convinces him that it's the wrong thing to do.

Noni

Hi Veggie These chapters are stuffed full of those little bits of normal wizarding life which are what makes this world so realistic. I can understand why those moments rarely make it into the films as they aren't really exciting or cinematic but they just build the world up to a point where you don't see it as a fantasy world. It's real life, just a different culture to the one we live in. We also get lots of those easily misinterpreted clues to this years mystery that JK is so good at peppering the books with and which make re reads so satisfying.

Esmeralda Joy

Hi Veggie, New Patreon and first time commenter, so you'll forgive me for going back to an older topic. In A Peck of Owls, you got a few questions asking what boy Petunia was referring to. This led you to think maybe it wasn't James. How do you feel about leading questions like this? They're not spoilers, but they can affect future revelations.

itsanursething

Hi Veggie! Wow! Quite the pair of chapters there. SO much wonderful backstory that the movies left out. I’m sure you have a lot running through your head at the moment. I wish we could dissect every little bit of these chapters but there just isn’t enough time! So I’ll try to keep things short and sweet. My goodness is Molly being judgmental! The way she went off at everyone, especially Sirius. I get that she cares about Harry, but she got a little nasty there. And then in Ch 6, how does she still trust Lockhart’s books after what happened to Ginny in the Chamber?? Can’t wait to hear your thoughts on Fudge vs Dumbledore, Kreacher, and the Black Family Tree! One last fun thought to leave you with: what do you picture when you hear “bat-bogey hex”? What do you think happens to the person it is cast on? Until next time!!

itsanursething

I'm so sorry for your loss! Sending hugs your way!! <3

STAYoung

Well Mundungus was mentioned in the Goblet of Fire as part of 'the old crowd' which suggests that he was a full Order member (like Arabella Figg?) all those years ago. My theory for why he is a member and not just a contracted source/contact is due to his apparent loyalty to Dumbledore and also to solidify his safety when working for the Order. You said it yourself Alicia, you start to feel how scary it really is to be aligned against Voldy. We know that Wormtail turn-coated and that many ostracised magical creatures sided with Voldermort for freedom to be themselves; how do you best ensure that a sleazy criminal stays on your side, how do you convince them to risk their neck if they aren't all in?

STAYoung

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STAYoung

I'm with you on the difficulty with leading questions. Being fed information about what to pay attention to can ruin the mystery or spoil things indirectly (like if anyone points out the locket in the book club) A significant part of the book club for me is picking Veggie's brain to see what a first-time reader organically thinks and theorises, even with movie knowledge. A single comment about a small detail can be harmless. We can't tell someone not to ask Veggie what he thinks about the book IN A BOOK CLUB but the more comments there are, the more significance that detail gains and if those comments all give their own little piece of the puzzle, soon enough details have been laid bare to get the picture.

STAYoung

Hello there Veggie, hope you enjoyed your Easter break You've been critical of Molly in the past by holding her to a higher standard than other characters, but the debate between her and Sirius feels a bit bigger than the ethics of cheating on diets. For me, Molly was pretty underhanded, switching the focus from Harry's well-being to dragging Sirius down, then getting her husband involved when she began to run out of steam. She does have a point about Sirius but I'll stay tuned to see where you stand on all this. Now we begin possibly my favourite plot of the whole series: Fred and George's Joke Shop. The underground, experimental business gives me Breaking Bad vibes or something out of a heist film. It only gets better from here and it sucks that I have to wait. So you finally met Kreacher, just as charming as Mrs. Black wouldn't you say? What's your opinion on not allowing Kreacher to take any Black heirlooms? I'm reading the illustrated version of the book and there's a whole double page dedicated to the Black Family Tree. Phineas Nigellus is one of the names at the top and married a Flint. Other notable surnames not mentioned that you might recognise are Yaxley, Potter, MacMillan, Prewett (Molly's maiden name), Crouch, Longbottom, Bulstrode, Crabbe and Rosier. Take care and treat yourself today

Margarita Pizza

Black sees his dead best friend in Harry, whereas Molly sees him as one of her children. You could argue that neither sees him clearly. Black was imprisoned in his early 20s and I imagine him having the mentality of a much younger man. He treats Harry as a peer rather than a child. Do you think Black is a good influence or a bad one? How do you think his friendship with James affects his attitude towards Harry?

Jo Winters

I so agree with you, they say trauma sometimes can arrest person at the age it happened and he was 21.

S1lm4r1l

Do we know that Fudge gets Percy's name right yet?

Alias93

Just imagine, that whole situation could have been avoided if Percy just said "oh no that can't be why I was promoted, they still call me Weatherby, they haven't figured out we're related yet".

H

Hi V & W! Thank you again for all the hours of brilliant content. Please remember to eat and drink! Some things that I like in these chapters: - Mundungus immediately saying that he agrees with Sirius when he has no idea what someone said to him. - To hear that the goblin Ragnok is feeling quite anti-wizard at the moment because of Ludo Bagman. Actually, the whole goblin conversation is really interesting to me, like Lupin pointing out what could sway the goblins (= the freedom wizards have denied them). - "Dumbledore says he doesn't care what they do as long as they don't take him off the Chocolate Frog Cards" is such a perfect Dumbledore reaction to the threat of potentially losing his Order of Merlin - Harry dreaming about Hagrid saying that they will study weapons this year is hilarious. - Arthur cleaning his glasses to get more time to think about his answer is a great little detail. - Ron leaving the room because of spiders ("to make a cup of tea"), and not returning for an hour and a half. - Harry and Sirius having a proper conversation without any drama or mysteries being involved in the conversation. Just a proper chat. - McGonagall being there in a muggle dress! If you were part of the gang requesting favourite noses, which nose would you make Tonks do?

H

There was a spoiler here, but Mundungus seems to have stolen it.

Steven

Hey Veggie & Woozle! Chapter 5: When I was reading this chapter for the book club one thing stuck out to me so clearly that I never realised before… Was the author influenced by Del Boy for Mundungus’ character? I feel bad for Molly, I dont entirely agree with her stance but her being so protective over Harry is so heartwarming Chapter 6 Its awesome learning how interconnected the pureblood families are. I don’t know how I feel about the skiving snackboxes, surely they can’t be legal? I’d imagine selling items that helps students not go to school would be banned by the ministry? Like how you can’t go on holiday during term times in real life.

Cj Hayes

G’day Veggie! Hope you had a lovely Easter. Chapter 5 - Where do you think the rolls of parchment disappeared to when Bill vanished them? Did you think we would get so much more of Mundungus? He was only in the 7th film. We also find out why he’s in the order, no doubt he’s useful in some situations. Sirius’ comments tie back to what Harry thought in the earlier chapters “exactly the opposite of what you would have done”. F + G are hilarious! Whipping their wands out for everything. Honestly, wouldn’t you though? I totally would. Also you got an answer to your question from last time! It’s not just Tonks hair that she can change. What did you make of the political discourse about the goblins? Keep an eye out for that because it does come up occasionally in future. I wish the movies hadn’t left out Sirius and Molly's argument. “He’s not your son, He’s as good as” made me tear up. I love how the Weasleys have taken him in, he really is family to them. I love that Molly made Ginny leave, as if they wouldn’t tell her anyway. Chapter 6 - Lol Sirius mum really has a mouth on her, right? Holy moly. The beginning of F + G’s business development! Did you like getting all the backstory for Sirius family and the purebloods in general? I love when books delve into backstory and lore like that. Love from Aus

Janie

Hi Veggie (and Woozle!) I somehow managed to miss the last book club so I start with something from the last two chapters, if you don't mind. But I'll keep it short :) Percy. I really tried to understand his point of view but I just can't. He knew his family was firmly on Dumbledore's side and he just went and boasted to his father about his, quite suspicious, promotion? What did he expect? Also, I think the Sorting Hat made a mistake by putting Percy in Gryffindor. He clearly belongs in Slytherin. Now back to chapters 5 and 6. I feel quite sorry for the twins. They are legal adults but are treated like children. They have every right to be informed about what's going on, even without being members of the Order. I know they would've probably told the other kids everything but still, I think they should have the chance to prove that they can be trusted. I loved the scene when Molly shouts at Mundungus about the stolen cauldrons making Mrs. Black go off too. Too bad it wasn't in the movie.

Tawny Owl

Hi Veggie and Woozle, I somehow constantly miss every other bookclub because life gets in the way. Let's see if I will ever manage to comment two months in a row. XD Something that always confuses me is how loud apparating is. Back in chapter 1 it seemed very loud with all the neighbors reacting to the noise. So why would the twins use apparating to "sneak" downstairs and back up to their room and Molly somehow doesn't hear anything while the kids can even hear her steps easily through the door? Also poor Buckbeak locked up in a bedroom! I cannot imagine a hippogriff would be very healthy and happy under such circumstances. Black should have either let him go free or found some place else for him to stay.

Alias93

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Alias93

I was confused too with the discrepancy of the sound apparating makes (sometimes it's a loud "crack", sometimes it's just a "pop"), but maybe it depends on the magical ability of the person apparating? If you're really good at apparating you might be able to do it almost silently, and if not it makes a loud noise?

S1lm4r1l

Narcissa is able to make a small pop when she apparates to Spinner's End. By comparison, Bellatrix who is rushing to catch up to her sister and prevent her going to Snape makes a much louder sound. Narcissa had more time to do it with more finesse and so made less noise. Magic in this world follows pretty much the same rules. If you're making lots of noise, you're not doing it very well. Mundungus apparates to the sound of a gunshot or car backfiring and we know he's not a very good wizard.

Sara

I think Percy wanted his father to tell him he was proud. After all that he'd been through with Crouch (whom Percy genuinely liked since he spoke highly of him even when he wasn't around and before he was promoted), he needed some good news. I think Arthur handled that situation horribly by not only accusing Percy of being a potential spy but also doing so in front of his whole family. Don't get me wrong, the promotion was suspicious, and Arthur was right to be worried, but he should've probably taken Percy aside and told him to be careful after congratulating him in front of everyone.

Simon audsley

"You are a hideous orangutan" Couple of slow chapters not much happening but some character and world building. Though there are a few names and other things mentioned that you should recognise. Not sure what use Tonks is in her actual job as any dark wizard would hear her coming a mile off. Have you got a bead on mudungus description yet as he's not much like his film counterpart, I can't help but base his look on a certain wiry Irishman who is connected to the above quote, who I believe had rather an unfortunate intimate encounter with a garden gnome going on how the episode ended. Looking forward to the next couple of book clubs as they'll be some interesting stuff to disscuss.

Emory

Hi Veggie and Woozle! So much interesting stuff in these two chapters! I’m sorry if my comment is too long, I really did try to condense! 😬 One big theme is Sirius’ connection with Harry. Mrs. Weasley says that Sirius sees Harry as James, but it feels more like Sirius sees himself in Harry. Both grew up feeling unwanted, and both found their first real family and sense of belonging in friends. Sirius was about Harry’s age in the first war against Voldemort, and likely relates to Harry being desperate for information and action. Mrs. Weasley though, is ten years older than Sirius and has seen young people (the Longbottoms and Potters for example), hurt and killed in the Order fighting Voldemort. She doesn’t want to see that happen again and seems frustrated that Sirius, who is now the same age she was in the first war, is not seeming to act protective in the same way she thinks he should. I’m curious how well the two knew each other as order members last time. She doesn’t seem to have as much compassion for Sirius’ tragic experience as I would expect from what we know of her character, especially when she calls Sirius out for having been in Azkaban and so not able to look after Harry well. The political climate is starting to get explained in more depth, and this will continue to be important through the rest of the books. Fudge is paranoid about losing his power, and is inadvertently playing right into Voldemort’s hand by enabling him to remain under the radar. We can see the contrast in Dumbledore’s approach, as Dumbledore does not care about maintaining his power/reputation. We get some of the first indications that Goblins hold different innate morals than wizards. Kreacher! What do you think about house elves’ abilities to obey or disobey their masters? Are there some commands that are stronger than others? Is Kreacher still following the orders of Mrs. Black’s portrait over Sirius’? One last thing, did you happen to catch an Easter egg/major bit of foreshadowing in one of these chapters? Something appeared which can only be recognized by people who have either already watched the movie or already read the book once before. 🧐 Sorry again for the long post! Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts on these chapters!

Methanoutput

Hey Veggie! I love the stories about Mundungus and the vibes in the Grimauldplace are still not as happy as in the Burrow, but somehow it feels a bit more cozy in the book than in the movies. Even with Mama Black. Hope you and Woozle are doing super good!

Alias93

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Alias93

I think it's mentionned at some point that Molly and Arthur were in fact not in the order during the first war, so they wouldn't have known Sirius from that time.

Music Here

-I like the small detail of Crookshanks jumping onto Sirius’s lap and Sirius scratching him. They still have that connection from Prisoner of Azkaban, despite Sirius being in human form -Sirius isn't happy with Dumbledore either. Usually we see Sirius as both the father figure and a friend to Harry. At this moment he's almost like a teenager who is mad at his parent (Dumbledore) for setting boundaries, kinda like Harry. Harry can empathize with Sirius, and I like how it makes them bond even more. -In the movies, the argument between Sirius and Molly is VERY briefly touched upon through the extendable ears and in the kitchen, but it's far more thorough and intense in the book. Even Arthur and Lupin are involved, which is great. Do you believe Harry should be fully in the order? -The order says that Fudge thinks Dumbledore is after his job. Why do you think Dumbledore never wanted to become the minister of magic? He always believed Voldemort would come back, so he would have had more power in the Ministry to combat Voldemort once he came back. Why refuse the post? -You don't know much about Kreacher yet, so I'm just gonna say he's one of my favorite characters in the series, and I think you'll like him too!

Hawwah

Hi Veggie! Long time no see! Here we have several more instances of Molly SHOUTING at her children. That's right, many of her lines are written in all caps to convey she yells at the top of her lungs. I always say that if scolding misbehaving teenagers was bullying, the worst bully of the wizarding world would be Molly Weasley. Closely followed by Minerva McGonagall. People are so judgmental when it comes to Severus, yet his scoldings are objectively very tame in comparison to these two ladies. For example, he almost never raises his voice. I recently discussed this double standard with someone and she suggested it could be due to gender bias. According to her, being scolded by a man is typically perceived as more serious compared to being scolded by a woman. I think there is some truth to that. Speaking of Severus, do you remember what Voldemort said about him at the graveyard? "One, who I believe has left me forever... he will be killed, of course" (GoF, ch. 33) Severus is not only still alive but Voldemort now trusts him completely. Can we appreciate how good Severus is at playing his role? And how brave he was when he went to meet resurrected Voldemort? He is the most valuable member of the Order and also the one who takes the most risks.

Grace S

Hi Veggie! I really enjoy these chapters! Chapter 5 Notes: I think both Molly and Sirius are right. Harry shouldn't be told about this, he should be allowed to be a kid, but the state of the world and his place in it really changes things. I like that lupin is able to be a mediator here, and that Sirius actually listens to and trusts him. Chapter 6 Notes: Kreacher is a lot more disturbed in these books. I love all of the black family lore we are getting! Sirius really is what Harry needs right now, they understand each other's situations. There are so many little easter eggs in these chapters, what are a few that you noticed? Hope you and woozle have an incredible day!

Alias93

I was reading through the comments while waiting for the book club video to drop (hopefully tomorrow), and I thought I'd leave a (very late) reply.

Alias93

I think Sirius's plan at the end of PoA was probably to sell the Black family house and buy a new one for him and Harry to live in. I doubt he would have wanted to go back living there, even if he wasn't forced to stay inside like he is in this book since if everything went according to plan he would have been a free man.

Réka Kovács

Hi Veggie! My first comment here, so sorry, it might be a little long. I really wanted to join at the begginning of the book, but unfortunately I missed it. My life's been quite busy the last two years, since I've started watching your movie reactions and book reviews. I finished university, started a job as a history teacher and just tomorrow, my first final year class is graduating! Crazy.. Anyway, my favourite book, probably because it introduces my favourite character, (Don't call me) Nymphadora Tonks! I love her in the books, and I am always so annoyed that she appears so little in the movies. Her clumsiness is totally relatable.. But she is such a fun, enthusiastic person (wanting to help even though she shouldn't.. ). The metamorphmagi thing is very interesting to me, it would be very useful to have that ability. And there is going to be soooo much more about her in the future, and I can't wait for you to get to know her more. Apart from me obsessing over Tonks, I also really loved these chapters. I'm sure the evening conversation will be discussed in detail, but the cleaning is one of my favourite parts, even though in real life I hate it.. Doxies, the twins packing things in their pockets to experiment with them, all the interesting stuff they find in the house. Also, however horrible Sirius' mother is, it would've been fun to see her scream at the top of her lungs every time something loud happens. As for Kreecher, I have very mixed feelings about him. I feel sorry for him, and I am very annoyed with him at the same time for the things he is saying.. Thank you so much for doing these reviews, I really enjoy listening to them and it brings back so much memories from my childhood when these books were an escape for me and meant so much to me.

Will

Hi Veggie, long time no see. I haven't commented in- at least 6 months. I lost motivation to read and my life has been hectic. But now I'm back. And I'm also excited for the future Hunger Games book club. I don't have anything to say about the chapters because I'm sure others have already covered everything. Just wanted to announce my comeback.

John Phillips

Sorry for the very late comment Veggie, hopefully it shows up in the video. It's interesting how Sirius said in the previous book about how if you want to know what a man is like, take a look at how he treats his interiors, and yet look at how he treats Kreacher. It's understandable why Sirius treats him with contempt, but he should take a look in the mirror.