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[CLOSED] - The Harry Potter Book Club! - Your Notes for Chapters 7 & 8 of The Order of the Phoenix! (Patreon)

Published:
2025-05-04 04:01:16
Edited:
2025-05-30 14:03:17
Imported:
2026-08
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Content

HI GUYS THIS PART OF THE BOOK CLUB IS NOW CLOSED! Thank you so much for taking part and see you next time!!

Oof-Tee-Poof, everyone!! 👋

Here is a chance to get your comment read out in the next Book review video!

If you are reading along with the reviews, we are covering chapters "Thw Ministry of Magic" & "The Hearing"! So if you have any thoughts, opinions, comparisons or questions regarding these, please leave a comment below!

I do have to ask, try to keep them fairly short, like 4 or 5 sentences.  That way I can cover more when making the video.  Also try to keep them on subject and not referencing anything that we are yet to cover. Ideally, keep it to 1 comment each if you can (if you have more to say after commenting, you can edit it and add to it! :) ).  These are just rough guidelines rather than rules, I want to be able to fit in as many of you as possible! :)

NEW FEATURE!! - As some of you may want to make a comment, but not have it replied to by others, you can now Message me your thoughts on the chapters by DM'ing me on here.  If you do, please follow all the above rules, especially avoiding mentioning things in future chapters or books!  Oh and please start your DM message with "Book Club -"!

To anyone that does reply to comments below, please make sure you are being friendly and respectful!  A lot of tone and meaning can be lost in text, after all!  If you disagree with someone on something, keep it polite and remember the golden rule in life - Sometimes you have to just agree to disagree! :)

Thanks, guys!! :)

Files

Comments

Jo Winters

Hello Veggie! Thank you for an awesome previous video! Chapter 7 Having a painting with a sentient something in it that can laugh, in the bedroom, is a wild idea to me. Bedroom and bathroom? It's a no from me. I love the scenes in the Ministry because I like it when they visit different parts of the magical world. Which part of the Ministry building did you like best? Chapter 8 The way I see it, they could ask for the defendant's consent to such an option: give him Veritaserum to ask what happened—or if they want even more proof, give him Veritaserum and ask him if he meddled with his own memory of the event, and if he says 'no', then pull the situation out of his mind to see the memories and confirm what had happened. I think Dumbledore had a tip from someone that the hearing time would be changed, or he had foreseen they would do something like this. Probably a tip. Dumbledore is like a lawyer and a witness at the same time. If he wasn’t there, then what? Is Harry, a child with no knowledge of the law, supposed to argue, or is he supposed to put his whole faith in the judges? It's a very strange justice system. Come to think of it, is Dumbledore really a witness? He was not even there.

K

Hi Veggie! I think this chapter shows why I am of the opinion that the Wizarding government/law system is haphazard and poorly organized. You've sometimes said how there must be laws or exceptions in laws to accomodate various situations, especially with regards to muggleborns... and while logically that should be the case, I'm not so sure. My guess would be that court outcomes are often based on vibes and people voting according to common sense rather than the letter of the law. I'm sure in this more progressive era they wouldn't usually prosecute muggleborns for using magic in front of their immediate family, but they don't seem to think it's important enough to write that into law either. I don't think the people with powers to change laws spend much time thinking about muggleborns (or squibs, for that matter.) So for your previous speculations about whether there are ways for muggle family members to visit Hogwarts or St Mungo's... based on what we see here I would say that it's technically illegal, but no one would make a fuss about a kind teacher or Healer making an exception, unless there was some political reason to do so.

Jo Winters

I was thinking about this too, especially in context of Dudley already knowing about the wizarding world, so how is that breaking the secrecy for him to see magic

Music Here

1. Tonks talks about a guy called Scrimgeour who's been asking her and Kingsley some questions. He is a character who has several speaking lines in the movies but is never mentioned by name. Keep the name in mind! 2. The ministry fountain has a group of golden statues. The centaur, goblin, and house-elf are all looking "adoringly" up at the witch & wizard statues. You can understand why most human wizards feel they are superior when the ministry itself advocates that belief. It's no wonder house-elves are not treated well. 3. I thought the design of the ministry was expertly done in the movie. It looks incredible! 4. "In your admirable haste to ensure that the law is upheld, you appear, inadvertently I am sure, to have overlooked a few laws yourself” Dumbledore OWNING Fudge in his polite, calm and logical fashion is so satisfying! But why is he avoiding Harry? 5. First scene of the lovely Dolores Umbridge who is described as "toad-like" in the book. The actress Imelda Staunton is very pretty which works better imo. I think it's more interesting she looks good but is unpleasant otherwise, rather than being both ugly & awful. So props to the movie makers.

Diego Zenhäusern

Honestly, I love Mrs. Figg but she's a terrible whitness... To be honest I always think that she makes Harry look more guilty🙈😅. Because it's painfully obvious to me that she couldn't see the dementors but only felt their effects. And so what I am seeing from the perspectiv of a witch ir wizard in the wizengamot is Dumbledore bringing in a whitness who lies (or at least seams to lie) in my face within the first few seconds of my questioning...which does to me look quite suspicious and as if Dumbledore is up to no good.😂 So I'm curious to see what you thought about her "performance" as a whitness🤔🙂? On another note: Arthur and Kingsley acting as if they didn't know each other too well is always hillarious to me😂

Réka Kovács

Hi Veggie! I think that the movie did a good job portraying these two chapters, but there are a few small interesting details I’d like to point out. The description of the statue in the Ministry says the goblin, elf and centaur were looking up at the wizard and witch “adoringly”. What is your opinion about it? I love the magical windows underground. “We had two months of hurricanes last time they (the Magical Maintenance) were angling for a pay raise. . .” is amazing. Then the cool tone during the conversation between Kingsley and Arthur about Sirius, and Arthur saying “If you can get away before seven, Molly’s making meatballs.” Harry being questioned in the same room as Death Eaters (and the room he saw in the Pensieve) is insane. What is your opinion about Percy being the scribe and how he is acting? I found Dumbledore magicking up armchairs, Fudge being completely flustered by his appearance and Madam Bones being super impressed by Harry’s ability to produce a corporeal patronus amusing. Hope you and Woozle are doing well!

Réka Kovács

I never actually thought she was not able to see them, I assume they could veirfy whether Squibs are able to. In my opinion she was just nervous at first, but I might be wrong. As for Kingsley and Arthur, I love it too. Even added in my comment that “If you can get away before seven, Molly’s making meatballs.” is one of my favourite lines in this chapter :D

Benjamin Hütz

Hey Veggie, after a long absence, im now back :) There is one sirious issue i have with Fudge here. Even if i grant him that he really thinks he is on the right side, he still uses dirty tricks like changing the time and location of the trial on the same day it was supposed to happen. He clearly intended for Harry and/or Dumbledore to miss it. Why did noone question this decision?

Alias93

The existence of St. Mungo's hospital shows that even witches and wizards need to go to the hospital like Muggles sometimes, they can't (or aren't able to) fix themselves with magic in every situation. It's interesting that wizards don't really seem to know (or care) about what squibs can and cannot do, it's kind of left open whether Mrs. Figg was lying or not about seeing the dementors. What do you make of Dumbledore's attitude towards Harry? His movie version is still a bit too angry in my opinion, but at least they portrayed him ignoring Harry correctly, which is something I guess.

Jake M

S'mae Woozle and the other guy! Chapter 7 "He tried to eat, but it was like chewing carpet" - is this nerves, or a damning indictment on the quality of Mrs Weasley's toast? XD If you have an old phone to hand, take a look at the numbers Mr Weasley types to access the Ministry (62442) on a classic keypad! Chapter 8 I enjoy how Umbridge's introduction has her obscured in shadow. Sign of things to come? I was reading an old book, "The Unofficial Guide to the Mysteries of Harry Potter ", released before this book, and it correctly predicted that Mrs Figg was hiding something! Their primary clues were: 1) Her name- a fig leaf is often used to conceal in art (mostly genitalia I think, though as far as I can tell she's not a nudist) 2) Both her house and the apothecary in Diagon Alley are described in book 1 as smelling of cabbage- although they assumed she was brewing potions, which probably wasn't accurate as a squib. However, it goes on to predict that Lupin is actually James Potter in disguise, so I'm not sure how valid all their theories were...I guess we'll have to wait and see XD Hope you and Veggie have a lovely month!

Kattie Martin

Hi Veggi! Harry waking up and being too worried to eat or hold a conversation is very relatable. I’m excited to hear about how much you enjoyed this dive into the wizard government and what these two chapters revealed. Especially our introduction to the evilest villain of the Harry Potter universe, in my biased opinion. Do you feel like Dumbledore is avoiding Harry or is he just busy and trying to avoid looking partial. Also, where can I get a Mrs. Weasley to make me breakfast? I’ve never had kippers and eggs but there used to be a local restaurant that served salted herring with eggs and hash. Not very vegan but it was a lovely way to start my Sunday’s.

Sandra

Hi Veggie :) Fudge is a despicable person and politician. The contrast between him and Amelia Bones is so stark. JKR surely chose Fudge’s middle name after the politically disgraced Oswald Mosley?

Steven

Hey Veggie & Woozle! Chapter 7: Lots of great info here. I have to say, I don’t like how the Ministry looks in the movies—it feels like an unused tube station. Very Orwellian and 1984-inspired, though. I did like that the wizard statue was separate from other magical creatures. What did you think of the fountain? It seems to show an idealised Ministry worldview, where witches/wizards are superior. Worth noting which beings are included—and which are left out. Chapter 8: If Dumbledore knew Dobby cast the hover charm in Chamber of Secrets, why didn’t he just bring him to the trial? That could’ve made it harder for Fudge to dismiss the truth. Also, Dumbledore summoning a chintz armchair kind of shows he sees the trial as a joke. For YouTube shorts—when I rewatched your Philosopher’s Stone reaction, I thought the troll scene with the wand up the nose or Dumbledore’s earwax-flavored bean could work great!

S1lm4r1l

Veritaserum is complicated, expensive and time-consuming to brew. There are antidotes. We aren't clear on the interaction between the Imperius Curse and Veritaserum. If you've been Imperiused to lie and are then given Veritaserum, what happens? Other people can meddle with the memory once extracted. The Pensive seems to be an extremely rare, possibly unique object. Using Veritaserum is extremely dangerous and requires skilled questioning.

jolt45

What's up Veggie? Ch 7: In this chapter Arthur mentions the "Ordinary Magical Law Enforcement Patrol". I think you've questioned in the past about whether aurors do all of the law enforcement but this shows that they do not. Ch 8: I think this chapter is pretty well adapted in the movie. Several lines are ripped straight from the book. There are three distinct omissions from the movie though: 1) The presence of Percy (sorry Veggie, he is getting harder to sympathize with but I suppose he has convinced himself that Harry and Dumbledore are liars). 2) Dumbledore summoning and banishing his chintz arm chair (Is this the same 'evanesco' spell Bill used in Ch 5?). 3) Dumbledore offering to summon Dobby as a witness (Fudge says he "doesn't have time to listen to house elves" but is willing to "hold a full criminal trial for a simple matter of underage magic". He is bafflingly hypocritical.)

Rhea H Pelotto

This might be a "once in a lifetime" thing but, I can summarize my take away from these chapters quite simply... I know I'm just as shocked as you are lol 😱😉 Albus Percival Wulfric Brain Dumbledore MOPS THE FLOOR with Cornelius Oswald Fudge, no “fire-LEGS” needed. Enough said. Ps. This will undoubtedly be the shortest comment I'll ever make lol. Cheers!!

Maddie

Hey Veggie and Pretty Woozle! Mr. Weasley's closet space of an office shows us how little regard the Ministry has for his department, considering we learned in the last book that Fudge looks down on him beacause of his fondness for Muggles. I like the tiny detail of Percy walking out of the family photo. I suppose he also walked out of all the other Weasley pictures, which is kind of sad. Lastly, it's so good how Dumbledore is his usual calm, logical, and pleasant self during the hearing. It's amusing how politely he counters all of Fudge's statements. It's been stated over and over in the books how he speaks calmly, lightly, and pleasantly, and he never once raised his voice but he still gives an impression of authority. Whereas movie Dumbledore still can't act calmly.

Kunzite Blossom

It is amazing to me. In Prisoner of Azkaban during the scene in the three broomsticks, Fudge literally admits that he believes Sirius will return to Voldemort. Admitting he knows Voldemort is still out there but weakened so he's not a threat. Yet a year later when Harry says he's returned Fudge automatically denies it saying it's impossible.

Diego Zenhäusern

I meanI'd love to think that Squips can see dementors. But going by the way Mrs. Figg blushed each time she was supposed to describe them I don't think they can. Especially since she seems to grow way more confident, once she is desribing how ghe dementors felt and what Harry and Dudley weredoing, because I assume zhat were the things she actually saw/ felt. But I'd say that the really sad part about this discussion is that the ministry has so little interest in Squips that they don't know wheter or not they can see dementors😥 P.S. Yes! The "meatballs line" gets me every time😂

Gugurupurasu Daikirai

Howdy Veggie, Just calling me Goog is fine. I'm mostly going to talk about Chapter 7 because Chapter 8 is one of the rare movie scenes where they actually did a pretty good job aside from Percy not being there so there's not much to say, though Umbridge's physical description is fairly different. There were people who wanted Patricia Routledge from Keeping up Appearances to play her before it was released despite her age, and while Imelda Staunton did a good job I can definitely see that because Routledge is so good at playing unflattering characters. Chapter 7, or take your adopted son to work day at the Ministry, is so much fun and really adds character to Arthur and Kingsley. We actually get a glimpse of what Arthur's work environment is like. I always found the idea of Aurors working in cubicles funny because it makes me think of the movie Office Space. We now know Arthur and Kingsley are co workers who work on the same floor and hilariously have to pretend to give each other the cold shoulder at work unless they're sure nobody else is listening. We can gather that Kingsley is the Auror in charge of the hunt for Sirius which means he has a pretty sweet gig right now. His current job is to do nothing and just keep up an appearance of being busy, his house is unknown but I think that rules out hard working Hufflepuff (when it comes to Kingsley my money is on Slytherin). That's why he has time to peruse magazines for articles that the fugitive he is supposed to be hunting would find amusing. No doubt he will be able to get off work by seven to get some of those meatballs Molly was going to make. What do you think was in that issue of the Quibbler that Sirius would find amusing?

Jo Winters

I think those explanations are cop-outs for the writer. I'm sure if a mere school teacher can brew veritaserum, then so can the ministry hire someone. She made too many plot holes that require a lot of mental gymnastics as to why every single one of them cannot be used. How can people meddle with it once extracted if its extracted in front of whole court and lawyers?

Florian

Hi Veggie, I do not have to say much about chapter 7. Chapter 8 though, oh my. What do you think about Harry being judged in a room, usually used for hardened criminals? What do you think of Percy's behaviour? Mrs. Bones was pretty awesome though. What do you think of Dumbledore's performance?

Réka Kovács

It's been a while since I read the books, apart from reading this one currently to join the conversation, but if I remember correctly, a master can immediately summon an elf, can't they? So I guess he didn't think there was a point in bringing Dobby, and he can just summon him magically if needed. Also, he probably knew Fudge wouldn't really care anyway. Edit: I realized Dumbledore is not Dobby's "master" in the usual sense, as Dobby is a free elf, but I guess it would still work for an "employer"?

Grace

It seems like Rita Skeeter has done so much damage to Harry's image. A few chapters ago, Hermione mentioned that she laid the ground work for all the public scrutiny Harry is experiencing now. I wonder if Fudge was influenced by her articles and that's what made him detest Harry even more.

Garfnob

Greetings, Chapter – 7 - There Britten and Ireland are separate, but housed in the same building. - I think I would like to work in ludicrous patents. - How do photographs know the current audited of the people in them? Chapter – 8 - and she arrives at last. - how does Dudley count as a muggle in regards to the statute of secrecy? (I may have asked this before) - Veritaserum, there is no way wizards have a right against self-incrimination. Even if they did Harry could volunteer to take it.

Cj Hayes

G’day Veggie! This video will come out just after I’ve done some uni exams, so I’ll be celebrating (hopefully!) Chapter 7 I love Mr Weasleys childlike wonder about everything Muggle. His enthusiasm is so catching. Do you know what 62442 spells on a T9 keyboard? MAGIC! My first thought about the fire breathing chicken was “that sounds like something Hagrid would do” Percy having walked out of the family picture indicates that they share or at least have an idea of the real persons current feelings. Chapter 8 I was getting anxious when they kept interrupting Harry, like let the boy talk! Fudge is clearly behaving in a corrupt manner, I’m just glad Amelia Bones has some sense. Hope you have a lovely week! Love from Australia

S1lm4r1l

People can also meddle with the memory before the Ministry view it. Morfin Gaunt goes to his grave believing he murdered the Riddles.

Ashley Evers

Ooftypoof, Veggie and Woozle! I’m surprised that Percy is acting as a scribe for this. Wouldn’t that be a full time position for someone? I agree with Harry that Mrs. Figg is *lying* that she can see dementors. Either way, she proves that you don’t have to *see* Dementors to know they were there and be a valid witness. In these chapters we get see Fudge desperately trying to outmaneuver Dumbledore. In the last book review you talked about how you didn’t know if you agreed that Fudge really believes that Dumbledore is trying to take over/take power. I agree with you that Fudge’s primary motivation is that he doesn’t want to have to deal with a crisis, he doesn’t want Voldemort to be back, he doesn’t want to take drastic action and end up looking like an idiot. But Fudge knows that Dumbledore is very, very intelligent. Dumbledore would not be fooled if Harry is lying. There are only two possible explanations for Dumbledore’s behavior. Either Voldemort is really back (which Fudge refuses to consider possible) or Dumbledore is up to something, lying to deliberately cause a panic. I’m not sure which possibility he actually finds scarier.

itsanursething

Hi Veggie! Hi Woozle! Here we are, the hearing Harry’s been dreading. Did it live up to your expectations? For once, I feel the movie did a pretty good job translating this scene (except for Percy the poop). It never really dawned on me when I was reading these books before, but what kind of quality government treats a 15 year old this way? It seems extremely excessive and entirely unnecessary. He’s a kid! One who is just trying to survive and Fudge is treating him like he’s committed treason, like he’s a war criminal. I’m worried for Fudge’s sanity at the moment… For Ch 7, I love the little things: Mrs. Weasley doing what she does best when she doesn’t know what to do (mothering). The code for the visitor’s entrance. The Ministry department names. The hurricanes. My only confusion is how the heck is Mr. Weasley holding his full length wand in his jacket pocket without it being seen? How big is his pocket?! Or is there some TARDIS magic making it bigger on the inside…Until next time, Woozle be sure to ask for extra walkies now that summer is coming!

itsanursething

Is it a spoiler to say the toad lady is Umbridge? Since she isn't named yet? Granted, her lines are essentially identical to the ones in the movie, but her description is so different, I wonder if it would be a bit of a surprise/spoiler for Veggie...I could be totally wrong though :)

Music Here

Nah she is named: 'In the complete silence that greeted these words, the witch to the right of Fudge leaned forward so that Harry saw her for the first time. He thought she looked just like a large, pale toad. She was rather squat with a broad, flabby face, as little neck as Uncle Vernon, and a very wide, slack mouth. Her eyes were large, round, and slightly bulging. Even the little black velvet bow perched on top of her short curly hair put him in mind of a large fly she was about to catch on a long sticky tongue. “The Chair recognizes Dolores Jane Umbridge, Senior Undersecretary to the Minister,” said Fudge. The witch spoke in a fluttery, girlish, high-pitched voice that took Harry aback; he had been expecting a croak. “I’m sure I must have misunderstood you, Professor Dumbledore,” she said with a simper that left her big, round eyes as cold as ever. “So silly of me. But it sounded for a teensy moment as though you were suggesting that the Ministry of Magic had ordered an attack on this boy!” She gave a silvery laugh that made the hairs on the back of Harry’s neck stand up'

Alias93

I think you meant Mrs. Figg?

S1lm4r1l

Men's jacket pockets are quite big.

S1lm4r1l

Fun fact, there is an extremely rare genetic condition that causes a person to have uncombable hair, like a Mad Scientist. I don't think Harry has it though. Most people with the condition have silvery blonde or straw-coloured hair. It requires 3 separate mutations in 3 different genes so only 100 or so people in the world have it. The anonymous Magical Maintenance person who chose to stick it to the man with 2 months of Hurricanes is my hero. Maybe its just me, but its a real shame the film didn't choose to reprise the room where Igor Karkaroff gave up his names in Goblet. Bet you didn't expect to hear about the Quibbler inside the Ministry of Magic eh? What does Mr Weasley and Kingsley think Sirius will like about it? Which department of the Ministry of Magic sounds the most interesting/would you like to work in most? You've done a lot this month content-wise. Don't burn yourself out. :)

itsanursething

But enough to fit a 10”-12” wand?

itsanursething

You’re right! I’m a dum dum! Ignore me 😬🤦🏼‍♀️

Howiedoing

I absolutely love the detail of the ministry and these chapters. Seriously just imagine being Harry in front of a court room filled with people at the age of 15 for underage magic I just couldn’t imagine the nerves. The stark contrast between Fudge and Madame Bones is very evident and thank goodness for her or it could’ve gone very different.

Paulina

Hi, Veggie and Woozle ☺️, this is my first comment in a very long time as I was too busy with work to actually comment before. This is pretty long which I apologise but there was just so much to say. 😅 CHAPTER 7 1. This is just a thought, but what would have happened to Harry if he had actually been expelled from Hogwarts? Would Dumbledore still have sent him back to the Dursleys, or would he have been allowed to stay at Grimmauld Place? Maybe Molly would have taken him in? It's interesting to think about. 2. I love all the world-building in this chapter, especially the detailed explanation of how the Ministry of Magic operates and how much more secure it is compared to how it's portrayed in the movies. 3. "Grouped around him (the wizard) were a beautiful witch, a centaur, a goblin, and a house-elf. The last three were all looking adoringly up at the witch and wizard." To me this says that wizards are superior to other magical creatures, which is quite a statement. It is the same mentality that many pure-blood wizards have, so it's interesting that it's the first things you see when entering the Ministry of Magic. CHAPTER 8 1. When it comes to Percy, I kind of understand why he didn’t acknowledge Harry. He was at work and trying to act professionally. Did Harry expected Percy to look at him and say “Oh hey Harry, how are you?” That wouldn’t be very professional on his part. Percy agreeing with Fudge wasn’t great, but Fudge is his boss, which puts things into perspective. 2. Harry was a bit judgmental in how he described Umbridge. He doesn't really know her yet, and she hasn’t done anything to him at that point to deserve such description. 3. Dumbledore’s calmness throughout the hearing made Fudge seem irrational. Dumbledore knows how Fudge operates—he is a insecure man who wants the prestige and fame of Dumbledore, which is why by staying calm, Dumbledore made Fudge look like the unreasonable one in front of everyone. Fudge's plan to discredit Harry and Dumbledore failed miserably.

Josh Z

Harry being tried as a violent criminal (based on the room he is in) is crazy to me. Might be a little late on this topic but Percy gets no sympathy from me, he is fully aware that his only sister would be dead if not for Harry and yet he swallows the Ministry propaganda because hes more concerned with his own ego. Arthur forced his son to consider the very real possibility that he is just being used as a pipeline for information and he couldn't handle the truth so he hides behind petty anger as an excuse to ignore the fact that his ambition and work ethic don't mean anything to the Ministry. If I said to my father the things Percy said to Arthur, he would ground me for life. I'm pretty sure you can actually spot Percy during the hearing in the movies, which I always found funny because new people who have not read the books are probably like WTF is he doing here lol since they didn't bother with his falling out from the rest of the family or any of his personality, character arc, something that plagues the entire Weasley family in the movies.

Will

Hi Veggie. I'm going to bring back a complain to the author that has been discussed before. The way characters we dislike, especially female, are written to be ugly. Umbridge looks like a toad? How convenient for her to be ugly when we're going to hate her. I for one think that in the movies she works better, because she's not ugly. Imelda Staunton is a lovely looking woman and it's her acting that makes Umbridge, not her looks. As you know, the finnish covers for the books are quite unique. The order of the phoenix book cover has always been my least favorite. They really went full toad with Umbridge with it. Also do you think that the hearing's time and place was changed because Fudge didn't want Dumbledore there?

Maria

Hi Veggie, These are great chapters! I love all the little details we get. I must say that the description of the ministry of magic resonates with me much more now that I'm an adult who has worked in office buildings! What did you think of the Fountain of Magical Brethren? The description of it is off-putting to me. Also, I love that Mrs. Figg is back! I wish we got more of her in this series. Her description of the dementors running brought a bit of levity to the trial scene. It's unsurprising that they were so rude about her being a squib, but still disappointing. I'm also surprised the ministry keeps records on witches and wizards , but not squibs. It seems a bit short sighted.

Alias93

[spoilers below]

Alias93

Dumbledore was probably part of the equation, but I think the idea was for Harry to miss the hearing. Maybe it was even suggested by Umbridge so Harry wouldn't bring up the dementors, in case there would be an investigation (if the hearing had been done by actually competent people) she wouldn't want the attack to be traced back to her.

Dustin Baum

Hey Veggie, I think these chapters bring some insight into how Wizards view non-Wizards. The Goblin Liasson Office being on the floor for Magical Pest Control instead of International Magical Cooperation, Fudge not having time to "listen to house evles" and the fact that "Anti-Muggle pranksters" are the responsibility of two guys in a broom closet and not the Department of Magical Law Enforcement. I think it brings some context to the prank that Fred & George pull on Dudley in the last book while also making that prank seem more serious in the eyes of Arthur since it's his job to punish people like that.

S1lm4r1l

Not entirely in the pocket with the lapel I'd say there's enough length to conceal a wand.

Grace

Spoilers I mean it's JK Rowling, what did you expect lol. Her handling of female characters becomes an even bigger issue in book 6 with the whole Fleur situation. The way she wrote Molly and Ginny felt like her internalized misogyny coming through.

Nessy-Bobs

Hello to everyone Sirius threatening to "sort out" Amelia Bones for Harry. Amelia Bones is related to Susan Bones (aunt, I think) Evan broken ticket machines excite Mr Weasley The Telephone Passcode to get into the Ministry is 62442 spells "MAGIC" Beardy Bob with his fire-breathing chicken in a box. He was in the film. ("Morning Bob" whilst whatever was in the box tried to set fire to his beard) lift voice "Level 7 ludicrous patents office" Wonder what sort of things wizards are inventing to be classed as ludicrous, let alone having a whole office dedicated to it. Something like a flying carpet fitted with an outboard motor. Magical maintenance staff sound like right Knuts, giving them months of bad weather to force pay rises. (Did you know that Berk is Rhyming Slang for Berkeley Hunt? 😂) Fire-ARMS not fire-LEGS Might Dumbledore have used a timeturner to attend the hearing?

Nessy-Bobs

There may be spoilers ahead, so let's face the music and dance like no-one is watching

Alias93

[Spoilers] The family ties between Amelia Bones and Susan Bones will be revealed later in the book. I doubt Dumbledore used a time-turner, more likely he either anticipated the ministry's trickery or he got informed by Arthur about the time change right after he let Harry into the trial room, probably using the means of communication the order members have. Dumbledore would then only have to apparate to the ministry and go down to the court room to make it in time, and lie about arriving early to not get Arthur in trouble.

Tawny Owl

Hi Veggie and Woozle! In my opinion, Fudge chose the location and procedure of the trial solely for intimidation purposes, which is really disgusting, especially doing it to a 15-year-old. I think Fudge meant for Harry to be late (to make him feel like he messed up already) and for Dumbledore to miss the entire thing, isolating Harry completely. I don't even want to imagine the trial without Dumbledore there. Also, hilarious passive aggressive move with the Hurricanes! I hope they got their raise. XD

Alias93

[spoilers below]

Alias93

I'm curious if Veggie will remember what the Quibbler is, it had such a minuscule role in the movies and was only mentionned by name once or twice in passing. I can't wait for its proper introduction in chapter 10.

Alicia P

Hi Veggie! These chapters always have me wondering what the heck kind of banana republic the wizarding world has going on that the timing of a hearing can be moved to whenever and wherever at the very last minute. I realize they have the Wizengamot to handle trials, but no career politicians like Fudge should be on there! Seems ripe for major injustices that anyone from the Ministry is running trials instead of impartial judges and juries. Most likely they have some sorts of factions or voting blocs if not actual political parties, that would potentially bias them. And no person, underage especially, should be going to a hearing or trial without a representative who knows all the laws and statutes. Also, it was the 90s, we had email then! The paper plane memo thing is so silly. Sometimes I'm very glad to just be a muggle 😆 Hopefully by now the WW has gotten a little more tech-savvy.

Alexandra

Hi Veggie and Woozle! I don’t have much to say because a lot of my thoughts are probably already expressed here. I will say that I love reading how Dumbledore handles Fudge in the Hearing - it’s like Fudge is child being indulged by their parent when they’re throwing a tantrum. It’s endlessly amusing. It’s been a few book clubs since I’ve been able to comment because I’ve been trying to finish my last few university courses so I can graduate while also working full time! I’m in my last class now and it will be finished at the beginning of June so I should be done after 9 years of school on-and off. I can’t wait to take a nap lol Walter and I hope you and Woozle are enjoying the warmer weather (If you’re getting warmer weather, we certainly are. I don’t enjoy it but Walter likes to nap in the sun so it’s worth it)!

Madikuma95

I actually love the way Michael Gambon says: "ALBUS PERCIVAL WULFRIC ~brian~ Dumbledore." I also love Dumbledore's line: "Due to a lucky mistake I arrived at the Ministry three hours early." I think he knew Fudge would pull something sketchy! It's good to remember this is an abnormal trial! I doubt other cases of underage wizards using magic in front of muggle relatives are normally treated as harshly as this, especially with how the whole Aunt Marge incident was swept under the rug just two years ago. Fudge is specifically targeting Harry, here. Any thoughts on Dumbledore not looking at or speaking to Harry?

Esmeralda Joy

Hi Veggie! Why does the ministry have elevators? Technology that muggles invented to compensate for not having magic. Wizards should think its beneath them. They should just apparate/floo directly to their offices, visitors have to use the stairs like at Hogwarts.

Andrew K

Hey Veggie, I have a different sort of question today. If you had to pick one of the Ministry Of Magic Levels/Departments to visit for work experience, which would you choose (& which would you NOT choose) - Level Seven: Department Of Magical Games & Sports, incorporating British & Irish Quidditch League Headquarters, Official Gobstones Club, & Ludicrous Patents Office - Level Six: Department Of Magical Transportation, incorporating the Floo Network Authority, Broom Regulatory Control, Portkey Office & Apparation Test Center - Level Five: Department Of International Magical Cooperation, incorporating Magical Office of Law & The International Confederation Of Wizards, British Seats - Level Four: Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, incorporating Beast, Being & Spirit Divisions, Goblin Liaison Office & Pest Advisory Bureau - Level Three: Department of Magical Accidents & Catastrophes, including the Accidental Magical Reversal Squad, Obliviator Headquarters, and Muggle-Worthy Excuse Committee - Level Two: Department of Magical Law Enforcement, including the Improper Use Of Magic Office, Auror Headquarters, & Wizengamot Administration Services

Jacqueline Chaiton

Hi Veggie :) Hi Woozle :) Long time no comment! I've been dealing with health things and family things but I am doing much better than I was the last time I commented! First note, unrelated to this at all, I got my second tattoo over the weekend and it's a quote from the end of GOF. It's possibly my favourite line from the series, "What's comin' will come, and we'll meet it when it does". It turned out great and I'm glad I finally did it. Now onto my comment. One thing I will give the movies is this, I think they set they built for the Ministry was amazing. All the sets they built for this movie are great but that one specifically always stands out to me. I can't help but imagine the movie Ministry when I re-read Order. The Victorian London underground was the inspiration stylistically. Also it looked so much like real tile but was actually MDF! ITV did a "Behind the Magic" series for the last five movies, which is where I saw this. I just rewatched it, it's on YouTube, and there's nothing spoilery for the book so I would recommend it, but it also makes sense to wait until you're done the book. Also there's a behind the scenes specifically on the sets that I watched for the first time and they mentioned that the Ministry is actually below Whitehall (which I did have to google, I'm Canadian) and he specifically said the Ministry of Defense, which I never knew but is fun! Definitely part of my canon now.

Mate

Hi Veggie, First time here! Sorry in advance for the long comment and all the stupid puns. I think I am one of the few that see the hearing from the book as different from the movie scene. in the movie he just didn’t say calmly. The way Dumbledore handles every situation since the start of the series is simply amazing. With absolutely no effort he radiates authority, demand, politeness, kindness, cleverness and wisdom. Dumbledore continues to be my favourite character. Other people may disagree and I can understand the different perspectives on him. But you cant deny, Dumbledore’s got style. Thanks for what you’re doing!

Dobby Delfstoffer

Hey Veggie, I missed the last one because Patreon didn't accept my payment, I hope you didn't receive a notification every time I tried to subscribe or unsubscribe. This may become a monthly recurring thing, so sorry in advance. 😅 I think the fountain in the hall might be better of as just a statue. Jets of water from the house-elf's ears? Just no. The ministry used to use owls instead of the flying memos, but quit using them because they kept shitting on the desks? I 100% believe those owls were doing that on purpose. Dutch fun fact of the month: the Wizengamot is translated to "Wikenweegschaar", which comes from the expression "wikken en wegen", which means to ponder and hesitate very long and thoroughly. This can generally be a good thing, but in this case I interpreted it as the Wizengamot just being unnecessary complicated. See you next time!

STAYoung

G'day Veggie. Another breakfast description for you to enjoy. Not very vegan but it sounds like something 15 year old me would have demolished. The hearing is a great verbal tennis match between Dumbledore and Fudge. We've got Percy in the stands, who must appreciate not being called Weatherby; and Fudge running the show (until Dumbledore arrives) with his angel and devil on either side of him. I love how Dumbledore is pretending that Fudge simply made mistakes and wasn't willfully ignoring the law. It's interesting how both the prosecution and the defence broke what we know as the rules of law. People have already gone into detail about Fudge changing the time and location, not affording him witnesses or a defendant and ignoring laws and due process to punish him. However, we can assume that Dumbledore made Mrs. Figg lie in a courtroom with her account of the night conveniently missing out any Order business. Witness tampering at its finest. How impressive did you assume a full patronus was before this chapter? Also, how does the Ministry control the dementors? With positive reinforcement through souls to suck, or negative reinforcement with threat of patronuses? Wouldn't it have been amazing if Dobby was at the trial, as both a witness for the Hover charm and to bat for Harry whenever Fudge insulted his character. Dobby would have told Fudge to "catch these hands". Take care of yourself and I'm looking forward to catching up on the past month of your content. It's been busy

Elizabeth D

Hey 👋🏻 Veggie 🥕 and Woozle! 🐾 Happy to be back to the book club for OOTP after a little time off. Caught up on the last few and I’m so glad to hear you’re enjoying this one! What has been your favorite part so far? We can obviously see the Ministry’s corruption in the ways they attempt to sabotage Harry’s chance at a fair trial, but when they won’t even allow him to recount the events that led to the trial in the first place!? It is one of the plot lines in OOTP that makes me irrationally (or perhaps, rationally) angry. On the other hand, MVP has to go to Dumbledore here… his cool/calm composure is one of my favorite things about his character. It’s why that “Dumbledore said calmly” scene bugged book readers so much. He shows most of his strength in wisdom and tact, not sleazy attempts to discredit Harry like Fudge and his cronies. Did you see they just announced the new HBO cast of the Golden Trio today? 👀

Noni

Hi Veggie These chapters have lots more of those lovely moments that show us the little details of everyday wizarding life with the tour of the ministry of magic. I love how mundane everything is to the witches and wizards just doing their jobs. Also, a good look at the bureaucracy of the ministry and Fudge's attempts to bypass the laws to fit his own agenda. Very topical. Percy is trying too hard to prove his allegiance to the ministry I fear.

H

Hi Veggieboi I really enjoy the seventh chapter. Such a great description of office life at the Ministry. I love that Arthur is "reversing" everything for the reader: Us muggles are impressed by magical things, while that is normal and mundane to him, while he's really impressed by things like ticket machines – even when they're out of order. A lot of great jokes at the ministry, like the magical windows having only hurricanes for a while because magical maintenance wanted a pay rise, and the fact that there is a "Muggle-Worthy Excuse Committee" there. Dolores Umbridge has such a Reform MP vibe.

Grace S

Hi Veggie and Woozle! Chapter 7 Notes: Fun fact, 62442 spells magic on the telephone! So, aurors are like the FBI and the magical law enforcement patrol are like the police? I believe? Why do you think they changed the hearing? To make Harry look bad? Chapter 8 Notes: Oh my poor Percy. Forever seeking validation from authority. What reason is there to produce a Patronus Charm when there are no dementors? Hope you and woozle have a fantabulous day!

Methanoutput

Hey Veggie, Hope you are enjoying these Chapters! I think these chapters are quite rare, where we get so much time with Arthur. I also love the mention of the people controlling the weather outside the "fake windows", who did only storm and rain for days when they wanted a raise. Hope i am not too late and you and Woozle are doing good!

Music Here

Molly and Ginny internalized misogony? That's an interesting theory. Could you elaborate because I don't see it. As for the original comment, even if we pretend female villains like Bellatrix and Narcissa (to a lesser extent) don't exist, let alone Tom Riddle, Lockhart and the many neutral-looking villains, I don't see why that would be a problem anyway. That's just the way the author likes to describe her villains. It makes things more simple and the characters more lively. She likes to use quite strong, unflattering descriptions for good characters as well. There's literally a character called fat-lady. Ron isn't exactly attractive. Dumbledore has a long crooked nose etc. I don't think this is a problem. But I do agree it's obviously better the movie didn't try to make Umbridge look like a toad.