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[CLOSED] - SINGLE CHAPTER - The Harry Potter Book Club! Your Notes for Chapter 27 of The Order of the Phoenix! (Patreon)

Published:
2026-06-06 11:15:04
Edited:
2026-07-02 14:33:10
Imported:
2026-08
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Content

THIS PART OF THE BOOK CLUB IS NOW COMPLETE. Thanks for taking part and see you next time. :)

Oof-Tee-Poof, everyone!! 👋

Here is a chance to get your comment read out in the next Book review video!

If you are reading along with the reviews, we are covering chapter "The Centaur and the Sneak"! So if you have any thoughts, opinions, comparisons or questions regarding these, please leave a comment below!

I do have to ask, try to keep them fairly short, like 4 or 5 sentences. That way I can cover more when making the video. Also try to keep them on subject and not referencing anything that we are yet to cover. Ideally, keep it to 1 comment each if you can (if you have more to say after commenting, you can edit it and add to it! :) ). These are just rough guidelines rather than rules, I want to be able to fit in as many of you as possible! :)

NEW FEATURE!! - As some of you may want to make a comment, but not have it replied to by others, you can now Message me your thoughts on the chapters by DM'ing me on here. If you do, please follow all the above rules, especially avoiding mentioning things in future chapters or books! Oh and please start your DM message with "Book Club -"!

To anyone that does reply to comments below, please make sure you are being friendly and respectful! A lot of tone and meaning can be lost in text, after all! If you disagree with someone on something, keep it polite and remember the golden rule in life - Sometimes you have to just agree to disagree! :)

Thanks, guys!! :)

Files

Comments

Badger Kat

Greetings, Veggie and Woozle! Such a good chapter! Ch 27 - Being able to turn a classroom into a forest sounds amazing, I would never want to have a class in a regular boring room again. - I love Dumbledore so much in this entire scene, especially him remaining so calm, being able to talk circles around Fudge and Umbridge, and especially refusing to allow Umbridge to manhandle Marietta. - And the regurgitating toilets come up again. I’m sorry, I couldn’t think of a way to say it that wasn’t a pun of some kind, so many options! As always, thank you for all your hard work and remember to take care of yourself (and Woozle of course)!

Alex Hopps

Hermione is great but the morality of some of her actions has always raised some questions. Between the polyjuice plan very early on, the incident with the jar and the repeated blackmail of rita, is the SNEAK plan the most despicable? The scene in dumbledores office is top teir, between the disgust i have in weatherby, the hatred i feel towards fudge and umbridge, and some of dumbledores best moments. The way he reacts when she manhandles one of his students is awesome, but "you seem to be labouring under the delusion that i will be coming quietly" i think is his best line in the series

Alias93

I’m enjoying these single chapter videos. There will be time to return to the usual format when the chapters go back to a reasonable length, but for now it’s good that you can take your time and not feel the need to rush to not go over the dreaded 6h mark. Dumbledore is even more entertaining than he was in the movie, he completely ridicules Fudge and Umbridge by countering their arguments, casually implying that he could easily take them all out by himself and then actually doing it. Fudge’s reaction (‘‘So you have been plotting against me!’’) suggests that he didn’t actually believe everything he has been saying about Dumbledore since the beginning of the book. The scene in the hospital wing at the end of GoF hinted at this, he realised back then that the situation was real but didn’t want to believe it so he chose not to.

Targor

Hi Veggie, this is a very interesting chapter including a big movie change which I'm not sure what to think about. On the one hand, Marietta is basically no character, we only ever learn that she doesn't want to be in the DA, which makes Cho's "betrayal" more impactful because she is a much more fleshed-out character. On the other hand however, Cho telling Umbridge about the DA is later revealed to be due to truth potion, and I dislike how this takes away her freedom of choice here. I believe it would have been far more interesting for the story if Cho betrayed the DA willingly. It adds some moral complexity. I combine listening to your book reviews with listening to the new full-cast audio books. I'm still amazed how wonderful they are. It's one of the best experiences I ever had with Harry Potter and it's crazy how they did movie-level sound design for all the books without leaving out any text.

Jake M

S'mae Veozle! Hope you're both well. I have to wonder how the Divination exam will be marked, given Firenze's method (and presumably curriculum) is so different to Trelawney. Is the first part of the year essentially redundant? Veggie, ages ago: "Imagine what [Hermione] is gonna be doing by the last [book]- she's probably going to rip Voldemort's face off." Well, it's only book five and Hermione has scarred a teenager's face, so flippant Veggie wasn't far wrong XD She doesn't even show any remorse - we didn't see this vindictive side of her in the movies! I hope the series features a more multi-faceted portrayal. Wishing you both the best. Really struggling at the moment but your book reviews are something to look forward to, no matter how many chapters they are.

Andrew K

Hey Veggie! This is one of my favourite chapters. Dumbledore is on fire in the end scene - it’s so entertaining to see him display so much confidence, style, and intelligence. The scene of the DA being discovered is so much better here too - it makes the movie scene look amateur in comparison. I found it out of character for Hermione to refer to centaurs as “horses” considering her passion behind equality for house elves. What do you think Hagrid’s attempt is? I know you love Percy, but his chortling as the Minister’s joke “Oh very good Minister, very good” made me want to slap him! 😅 Thank you once again for all the hard work you do - these book reviews are a huge help for so many people and I appreciate the time and effort that goes into it.

Keary Smith

Hello Veggie! - Probably you have gone over it in your notes, emphasising the not telling anyone about the conequences of the jinx part, do you think it was a necessary precaution to protect the DA itself? - Some time since we saw Percy, I know you really like him so do you think his appearance here went into a worse or better direction from last time we heard about him? - Finally, do you have any thoughts what Dumbledore is doing or where he went outside of Hogwarts? I find this scene great in the movie, and I feel like it worked well in there, but of course the book always provides more information. Have a good summer and see you in the next book club! :)

Badger Kat

Yes, I really don’t like Hermione’s insulting reference to centaurs here and think it’s out of character. How would she have reacted to Ron calling centaurs ‘horses’? I feel like we can say and do things that are typically out of character for us in real life sometimes. I guess the only way I can reconcile it is that she’s just being flippant and brushing off Lavender and Parvati.

Heather Judge

Hi Veggie! I understand why Fudge is so happy when Dumbledoor pretends it was HIS army. I believe Fudge may have been trying hard to convince himself Dumbledoor is lying, because the alternative is too much for him to handle, and he is insecure about his abilities. As Hagrid says in an earlier book, Fudge used to rely on Dumbledoor constantly for advice. This "admission" means Fudge can believe it wasn't his insecurities that caused him to doubt Dumbledoor. (I imagine his doubt in himself would have been at an all time high after the Askaban breakout).

Garfnob

Greetings, (long one this time) Chapter – 27 - how did Dumbledore get Firenze to teach? Considering the sacrifice needed on Firenze’s part. - why are they running? They requested the room be somewhere Umbridge could not find. So, they are safe inside. - Harry did not lie. The DA does not qualify as noted before. - many people say Hermione should have told people about the jinx, but that would just have given people a way around it. I.E. telling Umbridge to check the 7th floor hall as was done. The jinx did not trigger until the meetings where mentioned, until she broke her promise to not tell anyone about the meetings. - Hermione could not stop people from talking. so, she made sure everyone knew who the trader was. - way more impressive arrest scene then the movie. This is a trend. - maybe if Harry was told why he would have tried harder, or not at all. i know that is how i would respond.

Noni

Hi Veggie Another Dobby scene omitted from the movie but of course Dobby would warn Harry he was in danger. I remember quite a few people had issues with Hermione putting a hex on the list without telling everyone, but I have no problem, even after the result of the Hex. It might be a fairly secret war that other people don’t even know is happening, but they are, in fact, at war and underhanded and deceptive tactics are needed to protect themselves and their allies. It’s not like they weren’t all told to keep it secret. Did you catch the mention of a reversal of time by Fudge? Did Dumbledore tell him about the events in Azkaban to try and convince him of Blacks innocence?

Badger Kat

I believe that the text mentions him using a memory charm on her, not the imperius curse. I always think it’s the imperius curse at first when rereading.

S1lm4r1l

Hi Veggie. I was one of those people that disliked the move to a 1 chapter a month format, but you've convinced me round. You seem much more relaxed and free in the single chapter videos and I hope you continue onwards like this (with a few exceptions). Firenze's class seems much more like a Philosophy class than Trelawney's version of Divination. Trelawney's classes might have been "human nonsense" but there was a structured curriculum. How are students meant to be tested? Will Firenze be setting a written exam? Even if Firenze were not a Centaur, I think the Ministry would have good reason to be sceptical. There are theories that Hermione was striving for a solution to the miscommunication that killed the Potters. Because nobody knew who had betrayed them. Unfortunately, Hermione was an idiot with the way she went about this, using the SNEAK hex as a way to identify and punish disloyalty instead of using it as a threat to keep the group honest. Like the Protean charms emulating the Dark Mark tattoos, Hermione appears to be taking more than a few leaves out of Voldemort's book. What do you think? Does Percy believe Fudge about Harry because he believes Fudge to be more trustworthy than Harry and Dumbledore, or because he thinks Fudge is a much better judge of character than himself? Do you think Percy's own beliefs about Voldemort and Harry have evolved since his argument with his father? "BLATANT CORRUPTION!" Did you catch Stephen Fry channelling General Melchett when doing the voice of Fortescue's portrait? What is Hagrid attempting to do and why does Firenze have a problem with it?

Alias93

The time travel thing being mentionned by Fudge has always puzzled me, it seems like a weird way to reveal that he had been made aware of it, or maybe the author just forgot that it was not brought up at all in PoA when Harry & co were trying to convince Fudge that Sirius was innocent?

Alias93

[spoilers below]

Alias93

I wonder if the jinx would still have been triggered if Marietta had been forced to betray the DA with veritaserum. I guess it would have, and it would make Cho's resentment towards Hermione more justified imo.

Diego Zenhäusern

WFFTITWFF Veggie! I really have to say that I'm really disappointed in Hermione for calling firenze a horse. It was very insensitive and to me even out of character since she usually seems to respect different races (e.g. house elfs)...😕 The scene with Dobby constantly trying to hurt himself whilst warning Harry is really sad. And the sadest thing is, that since he is free it isn't even "house-elfe-enslavement-magic" making him do it but his own conditioning...😕 To end with one of my favorite Dumbledore- quotes of the series: "I have absolutely no intention of being sent to Azkaban. I could break out, of course — but what a waste of time,..." If that isn't the biggest flex ever I don't know what is!

Madikuma95

I always forget Firenze is supposed to be handsome. Also, Hermione's line "I've never really liked horses" is hilarious (if politically incorrect). 😂 Fun fact, her patronus is an otter because it's JK Rowling's favorite animal! I always thought Kingsley used the imperious curse on Marietta, but he actually modified her memory (which is honestly just as unethical). Who do you prefer to be the snitch, story-wise? Marietta or Cho?

Kunzite Blossom

First....Firenze's classroom literally sounds magical. Second....While I didn't fully agree with Hermione locking Rita in a jar as a beetle....I am disappointed when it comes to her curse. I feel there are much better curses she could have done that did not include the word "sneak" on someone's forehead. I feel this was just a bit too far for someone like Hermione.

Ирина Устюгова

I agree with Hermione's ruthless attempt to protect the secret. Some might say she didn't really protect it, since Marietta snitched anyway. But she stopped talking when the pimples appeared, and that gave Kingsley and Dumbledore the time to come up with a cover-up story. We either are children playing at rebellion, or we are comrades preparing for a war. Hermione knew the real stakes all along; she is a girl who spent weeks in a coma because of her blood status when she was just 13 years old. Also, I strongly dislike how in the movie Umbridge just blasts through the walls of the Room of Requirement. It's not how the Room works... Also, Dumbledore is a badass.

Maria

Hi Veggie! Did you ever thing the regurgitating toilets would be such a crucial plot point? I know there's going to be lots of debate about whether or not Hermione's use of the "sneak" charm was ethical. I would just like to point out that the charm was so difficult/advanced that Umbridge was unable to remove it. Hermione truly is an evil genius, lol. Also, speaking of Hermione, I wonder if she saw Dobby wearing all the hats when he ran into the room. I think this is the first time she's had evidence that she is not freeing all the house elves. However, this was obviously a chaotic situation, so she might not have noticed. I really enjoy Firenze in this chapter! It's interesting to have a non-human perspective on magic and the world. I do find it odd that so many of the girls have crushes on him though. Also, I love Professor McGonagall explaining what nodding means to Umbridge. So snarky.

S1lm4r1l

We don't know that its permanent yet, or indeed at all. Just because Umbridge can't find the counterjinx doesn't mean there isn't one. And Hermione might be choosing not to fix it, instead of being unable.

S1lm4r1l

I doubt Hermione included that caveat. Otherwise she'd have to do it with the Imperius Curse or Cruciatus Curse.

Madikuma95

It's mentioned in Book 6. What do you mean by "devil"?

Alias93

I just realized another thing: in the book Dumbledore says that Snape was giving fake veritaserum to Umbridge, so it wouldn't have happened anyway. But in the movie he was giving her the real thing, since it was used to justify why Cho "betrayed" the DA...

Josh Z

For me from this point forward the book is superior. I say good job, Hermione! Like it or not they are at war with people who can destroy their plans to oppose Voldemort. Morality and ethics are just as dangerous as being reckless when the people on the other side have no morality.

jolt45

Howdy Veggie and Woozle, Firenze is cool, and so is his classroom. Dean asking him if Hagrid "bred" him is wild. I feel like if a species can understand and speak human languages, you shouldn't ask them questions like that. Are you surprised by the other centaurs' treatment of him? Shout out to Harry for thinking of the consequences for Ron, Hermione, Seamus, and Neville before himself when Dobby brings his warning. The scene in Dumbledore's office is a great one. What was your favorite part? Mine is when Fudge says "I expect you know why you're here?" to Harry and he pivots his "Yes" to "Yeah, no." based on a subtle cue from Dumbledore.

PumpkinSparks

That is how I read it, too. I think if Ron or Harry would have asked if she would have wanted to do Divination now with Firenze as a teacher, she would have said that it would be interesting to see his different take on the matter but that she doesn't think it is a worthy subject, or something the like. With Parvlev however, who are the ultimate Trelawney fangirls and swooned over Firenze during his introduction, they clearly think Hermione would be just as inticed as they are over the gorgeous horse-man. So she doesn't even bother to argue that the subject is humbug, she just dismisses them by claiming she's not into horses. At least that is my take...

PumpkinSparks

Pretty sure the time turner bit is one of the many instances where the author forgot her own canon, so the fandom has to bend over backwards to make sense of it...

PumpkinSparks

Hey Woozles Hooman! - good on Harry for understanding how Dobbys conditioned mind works and ordering him not only to lie to Umbridge but specifically not to hurt himself. - Firenze turns the classroom into night mode with a gesture by his hand. Do Centaurs use wandless magic? Or was that a trigger motion set up by Dumbledore? - Firenzes take on Divination makes way more sense to me. Stars don't care about our small maladies. And even if we think we read a sign correctly, we still might have misinterpreted it. Yes! Way more sensible! I do not like however how he talks about humans, as if we're lesser beings. I am sure that there are a lot of Divinationers (is that a word?) out there who align more with the centaurs take. It gives that world an interesting nuance though. I personally don't think the author thought that complexly, but it suggests that racism isn't a purely human invention but something every sentient being is capable of, and is born out of institutionalized separation, exclusion, and ignorance - Sassy McGonnagal is the goat!!! I love her so much in this scene <3 - I love that the "Dumbledore has style" scentence is in the movie as well. And I like both versions. Shaklebolts delivery is hilarious and it works perfectly in that scene. But that scentence coming from the one and only Phineus Nigellus Black? That somehow hits very differently... - there is a fan theory out there about the sneak mark that I kinda like. Pettigrew betrayed his friends and their cause and noone knew it was him, which led to disaster. So Hermione wanted to make sure that everyone would know who betrayed them. Again, I don't think it was the authors intention to draw that parralel, but it does make sense to me and I kinda like it. As always, please give Wooz some love from me :)

PumpkinSparks

Also, how did Pansy get into the Room of Requirements to retrieve the list? Marietta stopped talking before she could reveal where the meeting was exactly, let alone how to get in. That doesn't make sense at all! Also also, if they truly believed the room could be breached: don't run! Casually stroll in small groups in different directions. It wasn't after hours, so students walking from A to B would be normal... I understand they were panicked in that moment, but come on...

Garfnob

"Also, how did Pansy get into the Room of Requirements to retrieve the list?" - i believe it was stated the door was still open from when Harry left. could be my bad memory. "don't run! Casually stroll in small groups in different directions." - i will give kids a pass on that one. they do not have much rational thinking yet as a rule, but the ones that do should have stopped anyone from leaving.

Connor Wilkinson

Hi Veggie & Woozle, I have decided to continue ahead with reading the full cast audiobooks which I highly recommend you check out at some point. Chapter 27 * What did you think of Firenze’s first Divination lesson? * Who did you suspect had snitched about the DA meeting before it was revealed? * Umbridge showing her true colours when she lost her temper with Marietta P.S. As my comment is shorter I thought I would give my thoughts on how you could cover the full cast audiobooks in the future. As you are already doing an in depth review maybe you could listen to one then give your thoughts on the book as a whole.

S1lm4r1l

*Spoilerinos*

S1lm4r1l

In fairness to Firenze, the arrogance he has towards the students is something he shares with Trelawney.

S1lm4r1l

The irony is that Hermione likely would've liked Firenze's interpretation of Divination far better than Trelawney's.

PumpkinSparks

If it did say that the door was left open, I totally missed that sentence. But that is absolutely possible ;) it would certainly explain how she got in

Dodolulupepe

Hi Veggie! My goodness, the last scene is one of the most marvelously epic in this book; it was an incredible experience to listen to it in the full-cast audiobooks not long ago. I saw some others saying they think because of Fudge's reaction to Dumbledore's "confession", he hadn't believed it before, but I don't think that's true. I think Fudge just wasn't expecting Dumbledore to be connected to this scheme of Harry's, and was insanely taken aback. I think he thought Dumbledore had been planning something of his own against the Ministry in secret, not a literal army like (what he believes) this is. And then what do you think again of Dumbledore not looking directly at Harry (is he really or is Harry imagining it?), of the brief burst of hatred in Harry when Dumbledore touched him, and of Dumbledore's final message here being to listen to everything Snape says in Occlumency? Do you think Harry will pay more attention and try harder in Occlumency now that he knows it's Dumbledore's greatest wish for him?

Gugurupurasu Daikirai

My dog says hi this time, First off, the movie did Cho DIRTY. Dobby came in clutch again. If Dumbledore knew that Firenze would be banished from his herd for taking the job and had a potential different candidate then that was actually quite rotten of him to ask him to take the job even if it was funny to troll Umbridge, hopefully Firenze was the only option. What do you think this "attempt" is that Hagrid is up to that Firenze doesn't seem to think is working? Hermione wasn't just rotten, but even more rarely she was stupid too. I maintain she absolutely should have told the people after they signed that contract that it was hexed, would Marietta still have gone to Umbridge to rat them out if she knew her face would be disfigured or even know that there would be vague consequences for that? I highly doubt it. Always good to see Percy again, he was just doing his job

S1lm4r1l

We know that Fudge and Dumbledore had a private conversation in Dumbledore's office whilst Harry was out from his Draught of Peace. I imagine the focus was less on Black's innocence and more on the fact that Pettigrew was alive and had helped Voldemort to power. I think Dumbledore thought that the Ministry capturing Pettigrew would confirm Harry and Dumbledore's story and was essentially attempting to explain "We need to find this guy."

Florian

Hi Veggie, Long chapter, but of course the main focus is on the scene in dumbledores office. What do you think of the movie version vs this version. Noticed how phineas nigellus line was given to kingsley in the movies.

Dave Brannagan (Brannas86)

Hey hey Veggie and Woozle. Hope you're both well. Our dog Ruby is now 8 months old and coming along really well. Hermione, your Umbridge is showing: 'I don't really like horses' as a response to Lavender mentioning Firenze. Love Firenzes classroom. Shame him being a teacher was not in the movies. The DA was coming along nicely with their patronuses till Umbridge and her cronies crashed it. Good old Dobby for warning them. What did you think of the Dumbledore vs Ministry in this chapter? TTFN.

Esmeralda Joy

Hi Veggie, Dumbledore said Fudge would regret making him leave Hogwarts, what do you think he has planned? "He will not be singlehanded" is my 5th favorite Mcgonagall moment in this book. 3 of the top 4 are yet to come. She's my favorite character, and the movies only showed 5% of her awesomeness.

Howiedoing

What can I say I love this Hermione moment so much SNEAK in pimples across Marietta’s forehead ruthless, terrifying, but brilliant. Really dislike how in the movies they had Cho rat the army out even if it was explained they uses Veritaserum (had to look up the spelling for that one 😂). In fact I think they did a really poor job with her character in the movies.

Bram

Hallo Veggie, This chapter that surely feels like two chapters: Firenze is more rational than Trelawney, but I'm with Hermione. I'm too grounded for either of their views. Hagrid shows a lot of empathy for magical creatures that others fear or reject. At the same time, he can be prejudiced toward Muggles and other groups, making his tolerance somewhat selective. I still love him, though! Why does Harry feel something brush past him when Kingsley casts a hex? I'm not going to pull out quotes again, but Dumbledore is an absolute legend in this scene! Hope you and Woozle endure the massive heat well! Groet from the Netherlands

Gothic Llama

Hi Veggie! - I actually forgot the SNEAK was on Marietta's nose and cheeks - for some reason I thought it was on her forehead... - Since we got to the Patronus chapter, I wanted to send you pictures of drawings from the House editions of books, but I'm not sure if we can attach pictures in the DMs (I tried, I sewar). Anyway, in book 3 at the end there are lineart drawings of one character from that house and their Patronus, so we have Cho Chang, Hermione, Snape (these three I would recommend for you to see, they're beautiful) and the Patronus for the Hufflepuff character is a spolier, so I'd wait to see it until it is revealed later in the series. - Dumbledore is so cool in this chapter! The whole "I could break out of Azkaban, but that's too much work" gave me chills. - And lastly, I would like to give a little bit of info from my Polish version of the book. At the end of each book we have translator's notes, and I found 2 very interesting things: the Quibbler was difficult to translate, so the Polish name for it directly means "Juggler" as "to quibble" kind of means juggling words; aaaand "Order" in the book's title has basically one, very religious meaning (like the Templars) and it was almost translated to Brotherhood as it would be more fitting, but the publisher decided to just stay with the original (since Dumbledore's understanding of "Order" most deffinitely has a different meaning - I don't think we ever heard of any wizard following any kind of religion) Off topic – I'm going on a trip to the beach with my dog next weekend (5h by train, nooooo!). This will be his first time seeing the sea, so I'm very excited. Is there any fun or memorable place you went to with Woozle?

skinnyp

Hello Veggie, Unfortunately I didn’t really have time this month to sit down and think about the chapter as much as I wanted to do because June has been incredibly busy for me (I’m writing my bachelors thesis) + the heat is taking a toll on me. I still really enjoyed reading everyone’s thoughts though, and I’m looking forward to the next chapter already. Do you follow the World Cup? How far do you think England will go? Have a great day, until next time!

Simon audsley

"There's somebody at the door, oh, there's somebody at the door" a pretty deep cut quote, it's the only thing i recall from the show apart from characters that were in other things. Centaurs.... cryptic buggers aren't they, Hagrid's still acting suss. Straight into Firenze's first lesson which was informative if a bit oblique, He seems popular with the girls not sure if that's because he's pretty or that he's hung like the proverbial.... Percy is doing his best Arnold rimmer impersonation yet. Couple of minor differences what with the sneak being cho's friend rather than cho and the line about dumbledore having style is from a headmasters portrait rather than Kingsley which kind of makes more sense as you don't want your subordinate praising your enemy, which would make the paranoid book version of fudge suspect Kingsley's loyalty immediately.

Alias93

[spoiler below]

Alias93

IT Crowd?

Rhea H Pelotto

The instant I read the words all those years ago I knew. It was never even a question. My absolute favorite, favorite, favorite, favorite moment is in this chapter. One simple, glorious sentence that explains, confirms, validates, and reminds me of absolutely EVERYTHING I love about his character from the very beginning. The most polite warning and EPIC clap back of ALL TIME When Fudge asked if he intended to take them all on “single handedly”, without skipping a beat Dumbledore responses with… “Merlins beard no, said Dumbledore smiling, “Not unless you are foolish enough to force me, too” My freaking God. Is that not the most gangster thing you have ever heard in your life?? The amount of joy and satisfaction this sentence has given me the last 23 years is immeasurable. I've never recovered. I'm still giddy about it. We have heard he was the “best wizard in the world” from the very beginning, even good ole WEATHERBY says it to Harry at the first feast….. yet we have never seen him use magic to his personal advantage. Not once. His BRAIN is all we have seen thus far. It was time. Hope you and Woozle Noodle are finding ways to stay cool during the heatwave. Sorry about the length. I've been editing this down for MONTHS. It's the best I could do

Hawwah

Hermione channeled her inner Umbridge and permanently disfigured a girl's face. (Yes, that's right, it was permanent. JKR confirmed that in an interview.) One issue I have with this series is its skewed morality. The so-called "good guys" repeatedly do stuff that is just as bad or even worse than the stuff done by the nominally "bad guys". Carving into a person's skin is a cruel and unusual punishment. It's barbaric and inhumane. It makes no difference whether Umbridge or Hermione does it. If anything, Hermione was the more cruel of the two, since she disfigured Marietta's face, sentencing her to a lifetime of bullying and humiliation. Hermione is vindictive and cruel. She's arrogant, self-righteous, and feels entitled to break the law whenever it's convenient for her. She never feels remorse when she wrongs someone and never faces any consequences for her actions. She and Umbridge have a lot in common. Hermione is not a good person and she's not a good role model for young girls. PS: I think it would be glorious karma if one day someone carved something derogatory into Hermione's skin. Just saying.

Alan Michener

I just want to say justice for Hermione most people in these comments seems to think she is the worst. I honestly agree with what she did if she didn't hex the paper then Umbridge would have had every reason to expel at least harry but also everyone else in the DA. Putting that hex on the paper saved 30 + from being wrongly expelled from Hogwarts. Also one of my favorite scenes happens in this chapter Dumbledore just casually threatening 4 people when he fudge ask him if he is going to take them all on and Dumbledore replies with "Merlins beard no, not unless you are foolish enough to force me."

Ashley Evers

Ooftypoof, Veggie and Woozle! It’s interesting hearing the centaur’s understanding of divination. Reading signs in the smoke doesn’t really seem that different from reading tea leaves, but the emphasis on the fact that none of these methods are truly reliable is very different. I wonder how centaur’s feel about the fact that some wizards seem to be able to make prophecies that are not conscious or based on reading signs. I wonder if they would still warn you not to put too much stock in those prophecies, or if they would think of them differently. I really don’t see how Dumbledore taking the blame for Dumbledore’s Army would actually prevent Harry from being expelled. Harry still attended an illegal club, wouldn’t they just be happy to get a two for one deal and get them both out of the castle?

Music Here

I think it's interesting that you think it would be "glorious" karma if someone carved something into Hermione's skin, yet you apparently don't think Marietta got what she deserved for betraying and stabbing an entire group in the back, a group whose whole purpose was to remain secret. Hermione may have gone too far with the punishment, but I still think there's a significant difference between what Hermione did and what Umbridge did (and continues to do), as well as the context in which each of them did it. Marietta's motivations weren't entirely malicious (fear played a big role too), but I personally can't stand traitors like her and Pettigrew.

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I don't think it's out of character because Firenze is associated with Divination, which Hermione dislikes as a subject. I think it was more of a snapback at Lavender after she said, "I bet you wish you hadn't given up Divination now, don't you, Hermione?" Hermione is respectful toward centaurs later in the forest and generally treats them with respect. I think the author intentionally made Hermione's line sound insensitive.

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I don't think it's out of character because Firenze is associated with Divination, which Hermione dislikes as a subject. I think it was more of a snapback at Lavender after she said, "I bet you wish you hadn't given up Divination now, don't you, Hermione?" Hermione is respectful toward centaurs later in the forest and generally treats them with respect. I think the author intentionally made Hermione's line sound insensitive.

SavageKim

Hi Veggie! I think we readers are not supposed to like what Hermione did, but we are supposed to understand WHY she did it. But... I also think we are supposed to do the exact same with Marietta. Imagine you're a student told 2 stories about a schoolmate's death during a tournament that wasn't held for many years because the death toll rose too high. Story 1 - a dead wizard came back to life and killed Cedric and only 1 person admits to witnessing it. Story 2 - the really dangerous tournament which used to have accidental deaths all the time, had an accidental death. We know everyone else is being stubborn to not believe Harry, because we were with him and saw it. But, what might we believe if we were Marietta? The people her Mum works for show up and add more rules at school. Some are kind of bogus, yes, but maybe Marietta never gets the hand-cutting detention. She goes to DA meetings with Cho because Cho wants her to, not because she's a true believer in the cause/fight against evil. She caves to pressure and tells on the group. I think we're not supposed to like it, but we should consider whether we can understand WHY she did it. Plus, Hermione is 16, Marietta is 16/17. I know I made questionable choices as a teenager.

Diego Zenhäusern

I mean I get that and it shows that Hermione isn't perfect. And that's also why I don't hold it against her in the long run. But I think it is still unusually aggressive. It might not be entirely the same, but it is quit similar as someone calling a muggleborn a mudblood.😕

Hawwah

I was nodding in agreement until the last sentence. Intentionally disfiguring a person for life is a felony, not a questionable choice. 16 year olds are criminally liable in most jurisdictions, including the UK. What Hermione did is an equivalent of throwing acid into a person's face in real life. There's no justification for this.

Hawwah

Hermione thinks she's entitled to carve insults into a person's skin if she's angry at them. It's only fair she gets a taste of her own medicine later on. Marietta naturally felt more loyalty to her own mother than to a girl she barely knew. Believe it or not, Hermione is not the centre of the universe. There's no difference. Torture is torture. If anything, Hermione was more cruel than both Umbridge and Bellatrix since she disfigured Marietta's face. I can't stand many people. I still don't commit felonies against them. You must really despise Lupin since he was stabbing Harry (and the rest of the school) into the back for the whole school year.

Maddie

Hey Woozle and Veggie! Dumbledore is my most favorite character so you can imagine just how much I love this chapter. He must have felt very touched when he learned about the D.A's name as it shows his students' loyalty and respect for him. And lastly, I just love Undercover Kingsley.

Steven

Hey Veggie! Chapter 27: This may be a bit of a hot take but I actually think Firenze is a worse teacher than Hagrid based on what we saw of his lesson. He was abstract and vague, and even admitted that teaching divination to humans was practically pointless. At least Hagrid (despite the danger of his lessons) teaches them things they can actually learn. And of course we get more of Hermione being an absolute psychopath! It seems out of character for her to forget to grab the list of names though. Yet again we get more examples of the ministry being corrupt (Willy Widdershins and his regurgitating toilets) & Fudge IGNORES Umbridge manhandling/attacking a student in front of him! What would she have to do in order for him to remove her from the school? Also, thank you for the hunchback of Notre dame video! It’s probably one of my favourite reactions of yours, I’ve rewatched it countless times and I’m very glad it seems to be doing really well on the channel. :)

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Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I don't remember when we're ever shown that Hermione feels entitled to carve insults into someone's skin because "she feels angry at them." Is this some Pottermore content I'm unaware of? First off, she put the curse way before anyone had even betrayed them, she didn't feel angry at anyone at that point. Secondly, she's punishing someone who betrayed a secret GROUP. It's not personally targeted at Marietta, and it's not about Hermione "being the centre of the universe" lol. The same goes for Marietta, you're making it personal when it's about her betraying a group, she didn't need to feel loyalty to Hermione specifically. How about her own friend Cho who was part of the DA? And no, I don't despise Lupin. Assuming you mean the fact that he didn't tell anyone Sirius was an animagus? I'm disappointed that he let his shame and fear of losing Dumbledore's trust stop him from speaking up, but that's about it. The fact that Lupin admits his own cowardice and mistake goes a really long way for me. For some reason, it seems really difficult for you to add context to things. Two situations aren't the same, and context matters. For example, I'm obviously nowhere near as angry at Marietta as I'm at Pettigrew because I'm able to put myself in the characters' shoes, understand their thought processes, and consider the full context of what happened.

Kevin Morris

Hey Veggie! I don't know whether to be impressed or laugh at Fudge's utter stupidity and misplaced confidence in this interaction. Cornelius Fudge - Bumbling, stupid, and incompetent Minister of Magic who has been stated to have only gotten his job because more qualified people didn't want it or weren't given the role. A man who has failed at quite literally everything that he has tried to do, and is so terrified of losing power that he's denying Voldemort's return and using propaganda to quiet others. Albus Dumbledore - The greatest wizard of the modern age. Leader of the Order of the Phoenix. The man who defeated Gellert Grindelwald, the second greatest dark wizard of all time. The ONLY man feared by Lord Voldemort, the greatest dark wizard of all time. Fudge: "I'm going to take you down and lock you up!" Dumbledore: (smirking) "Sure you are"

Chorafini (Luiz)

I could be wrong, but she is not disfigured for life, it's like when Hermione's teeth were enlarged or any of the Weasley Products, I would imagine Madam Pomfrey can fix the issue

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At least two people have said it's out of character for Hermione to call Firenze a horse. I disagree because Firenze is closely tied to Divination, a subject Hermione can't stand, so I think it was more of a snapback at Lavender after she said, "I bet you wish you hadn't given up Divination now, don't you, Hermione?" Hermione is generally respectful toward centaurs, so I think the author WANTED that line to come across as surprisingly insensitive. "There’s nothing like a good witness, is there, Dumbledore?" Gotta give Fudge credit. That's a pretty clever jab, considering what happened at Harry's hearing. "I could break out, of course, but what a waste of time..." Why was this line was omitted from the movie? It makes Dumbledore even more badass here. Weird thought: is Firenze...racist? He seems to think humans are inherently inferior at Divination. Given how centaurs have been treated, the resentment makes sense. There's also a lot of pride because centaurs are clever and independent. But still, could you argue he's prejudiced against humans, or is he just stating a fact?

SavageKim

I also think that's a key point: Hermione's intention. I believe, with what we know so far in the story, that she knew enough magic to hurt the snitch, but I do believe she's also inexperienced enough that she doesn't truly know the full effects of the curse. Which would liken it to say, a prank that ends up causing more harm than intended because the person doesn't understand physics, or more like if Hermione meant to... splash bleach on the clothes... to mark them as traitor... but she accidentally got the concentration wrong and ended up burning skin underneath. I also think Hermione believes snitching to the wrong person could get her or her friends severely hurt/killed (Harry, if Voldy gets involved).

Ирина Устюгова

It's really nice to see some Dumbledore appreciation; people in the fandom are often too quick to judge him or ignore his trauma. He is definitely one of the most complex characters in the series and in my top three personal favorites.

Madikuma95

Don't forget to add your comment!

Hawwah

This is really nitpicky. But okay, let me rephrase that. Hermione feels entitled to "punish" people by carving insults into their skin and disfiguring them for life. Did I get it right? The thing is, Hermione has no business "punishing" someone. She has no authority to do so. She is not a prosecutor, nor a judge, nor an executioner. But she's so arrogant she just assumes those roles without a second thought. It reminds me of a real criminal case that happened in my country about a decade ago. A woman broke up with a man. He "punished" her by throwing acid into her face, disfiguring her for life. He got 23 years in prison. A lot of people disagreed with the verdict, thinking the judge was too lenient. You don't get to disfigure a person's face because they did something you don't approve of. I can't believe we're even having this debate. PS: I know prosecutors don't technically punish people. Please don't get nitpicky again.

Methanoutput

Hallo Veganer Spieler und Wusel. I have to be honest, i had to hold out until now, because i accidentally spoilered the divination classroom in the last sidepanel. I thought about telling you when i noticed, but what if you already saw it? I would make it even more clear its a spoiler. I just went silent, hoping you would not notice 🙈. Its my fault completely, i did not have enough time and just saw "ah its the firenze chapter" and i always loved the description of his class room. Hope you and Woozle are doing great and again, i am really sorry that happened 🙄

Hawwah

That's incorrect. JKR confirmed Marietta was disfigured for life.

Maddie

He is a layered, complex character and that's what makes him so compelling. It's really sad that others view him as this monster manipulator who "raised Harry like a pig to slaughter", completely disregarding that his entire theme since his youth is "for the greater good".

SavageKim

You may have misunderstood my reply. As readers at this point, we can only know what's been written, not what authors say after the fact. We must use what we know of characters to infer each person's intention. I do wish there was any acknowledgement later by Hermione about the damage she did, which might have provided evidence of her true intentions. Alas the author never wrote that into the books.

Hawwah

We don't disregard it. "For the greater good" is a phrase that has been used to rationalize human rights abuses through history.

Hawwah

@SavageKim Sorry, that was an answer to the other user. If you don't consider Rowling's post-publication quotes canon, that's completely fair. But even in the books it's heavily implied Marietta's disfigurement was permanent. She is mentioned still having a scarred face at the end of OotP as well as beginning of HBP.

Garfnob

we do not know this is for life. in the book it is stated they are sure a counter curse will be found. so it is a temporary punishment. it was not meant to be permanent. a post-hoc interview answer is not cannon. would would need to know the whole context of the interview. i would expect at the time JKR was trying to make Hermione look more skilled, and was not thinking about the bigger picture. and yes teenagers do dumb things expressly in the 90s when the books where set and written. i know i did some things that is they went differently could have been vary bad.