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[CLOSED] The Harry Potter Book Club! - Your Notes for Chapters 8, 9 & 10 Of The Chamber of Secrets! (Patreon)

Published:
2022-08-15 10:28:48
Edited:
2022-08-29 16:44:53
Imported:
2026-08

Content

This part of the Book Club is now complete! See you all next time! :)

Here is a chance to get your comment read out in the next Book review video!

If you are reading along with the reviews, we are covering chapters "The Deathday Party", "The Writing on the Wall" And "The Rogue Bludger"! So if you have any thoughts, opinions, comparisons or questions regarding these, please leave a comment below!

I do have to ask, try to keep them fairly short, like 4 or 5 sentences.  That way I can cover more when making the video.  Also try to keep them on subject and not referencing anything that we are yet to cover. Ideally, keep it to 1 comment each if you can (if you have more to say after commenting, you can edit it and add to it! :) ).  These are just rough guidelines rather than rules, I want to be able to fit in as many of you as possible! :)

OH! And if you would like to leave a comment but would rather I didn't read it out in the video, please feel free. Be sure to say you would rather it not be used in your comment.

Thanks, guys!! :)

Files

Comments

Natalie Nolet

I always kinda wished the whole deathday party made it into the movie.... I understood dropping it, but a part of me will always wish there was more Sir Nicholas DeMimsey Porpington!

Kattie Martin

Our first mention of Squibs, and a cameo of the vanishing cabinet. As a person who used to work in sanitation, I can feel sympathy for Filch who couldn't use magic to clean like other wizards. I also think it's interesting that the movie made it seem like Slytherin thought muggle borns were inferior but the book made it seem like he was worried they would betray them to superstitious muggles. Yet they still misunderstood the founder's concern.

YaeliEz (Yael)

This starts the saga of side plots that have been dropped from the movies! So much more to come! Excited to hear your thought and theories when you come across plots that aren't in the movies and that you don't know anything about lol

Benjamin Hütz

I am so sad they didn't put Nick's deathday party in the movies... this could have been sooooo funny :(

Nix001

Glad to hear you're watching movie segments as I suggested. It made the last reading more enjoyable. If you were able to place the bits the movies missed out it would be a small pile after book one. After book seven we might just see the top of your hat above the pile!!! Nearly Headless Nick has an important cameo to play in a later book so he wasn't just there to add local colour!!!!!

Raider Max

I love the Rouge Bludger chapter (really any quidditch chapter in the series) especially how protective Fred and George are over Harry. Them yelling at Oliver always cracks me up because I question if they would have been that way for Ron. Also I prefer the twins catching the bludger over OP Hermoine destroying school property. Makes more sense than a student doing something the teachers could have done at any point. Like always Lockhart is great in these chapters too!

Methanoutput

The fact, that Snape knows, that Ghosts usually do not serve edible food, on their parties, implies, that there are more Ghost parties in this world. And that, maybe Snape loves to party with some ghosts. Excited to hear your thoughts on those chapters! :D

Dara Jeeling

What do you think about Squibs now that you learned a bit more about them? I always thought it cruel - you know of the world but there is literally no place for you in it. Like with us *sniffs*

Jacqueline Chaiton

Do you think Nick ever gave up on joining the headless hunt? Also, "Sir Properly Decapitated Podmore" always makes me giggle.

Daniel Lee

Imagine the older students who have to take a career-defining test and their teacher is role-playing scenes in his book. Why do you think Lockhart offers to do things like brew the Mandrake potion and give Harry flying lessons when he’s going to be exposed immediately if he attempts them? Also, it's kinda funny how Prof. Binns is completely unaware one of the most famous wizards in history is in his class.

PaulaC

Sir Nicholas’s 500th deathday just happened to be on Halloween (October 31st). That’s the same day Harry’s mom and dad died.

Rebecca May

The Deathday Party really shows how kind Harry is capable of being... It sounds so grim. Despite all the excitement around the Halloween Feast, Harry still gives it up to keep his promise to Nick - who he really doesn't know all that well - because he knows it will make him happy. Not only that, it shows what good friends Hermione and Ron are, that they chose to go along with him too. Also, Professor Snape putting Lockhart in his place ("'Excuse me,' said Snape icily, 'but I believe I am the Potions master at this school.'") is quite possibly my favourite thing EVER.

S1lm4r1l

I'm so pleased you're getting to listen to these little sidequests and stuff, going to the Deathday party really is a nice gesture on Harry's part. Did you notice what Peeves broke? Watch this space! Fascinating the way Dumbledore works things out whilst Lockhart rambles. Also the first mentioning of Squibs etc. Not sure many people think likewise but I kinda like Professor Binns. The groping for the name and getting it wrong, as well as how annoyed he gets when asked to talk about mythology as a History teacher is amusing to me. Lockhart just acting out passages from his books rather than teaching anything useful is hilarious even if it is humiliating for Harry. (Hasn't that kid suffered enough?) Looking forward to listening your reaction. Take care of yourself!

itsanursething

You've finally made it to the first chapter left (almost) completely out of the movies! I would have LOVED to have seen the deathday party, but I understand that it would have been a CG nightmare at the time, not to mention super expensive. I'm also curious, do you picture the actors and/or hear their voices while you're listening to the audio books? I do, but only when the line from the book was in the movie. Otherwise, despite how good the actors are, I have my own image of most of the characters.

Bianca Nedelea

Hello , I just wanted to thank you , these videos and debates give me so much joy, I am always hyped for them, you are very insightful. I couldn't help but notice the background music, for me anything from Jeremy Soule will have a HP feeling because of the first 3 HP PC games. Awesome content and have a great week.

Garry (Not Jerry)

It’s a small thing but I really love the scene with professor Binns getting all the students names wrong. It does make more sense that Hermione would ask their history of magic teacher to explain the chamber of secrets, rather than professor mcgonagall, like in the movie. Book mcgonagall would probably have refused.

H

Some things I really like from these chapters: - "Can you taste it if you walk through it?" Harry asked him. "Almost," said the ghost sadly, and he drifted away. - Photographs of Lockhart on the wall nodding in agreement to everything he says. - How weird it is to read parts of it when you know of Ginny's involvement in it, like when she seems terrified at a joke about it. - Harry questioning himself, his identity, his personality. He's so invested in the whole thing about being a Gryffindor, so him thinking back to when the sorting hat thought about putting him in Slytherin is interesting.

Sara

This is my first time commenting on one of these! I like your reactions. You have good insight! Anyway, here are some of my thoughts: Poor Filch has to put up with so much in these few chapters. :( I like Harry being reminded of Molly when Percy's lecturing them. Though it really irked me when Ron claimed that Percy doesn't actually care about Ginny being upset. He deserved to lose those five points for being so rude. So, Lockhart asks a student to get on the ground while he holds him down, holds a wand to his throat, and asks him to moan loudly… When you think about it this class sounds very questionable. (lol)

Giorgia M

I really like Harry and Nick’s relationship in the books, it’s very sweet. I think the ghosts add a lot of colour to the castle that you don’t really get in the movies, this is the non-plot essential stuff that brings me back to the books. It’s the padding that makes Hogwarts a comfy place to visit when reading. How did you prefer Myrtle’s introduction to the movies? I’m also sorry to anyone fighting for me to believe Snape is a good man who didn’t get great pleasure from trying to catch Harry at something or deprive him from any joy he had in his life like Quidditch. I don’t believe it’s simply a part of a well done doubt agent act. I think he’s a hero in the big picture but very clearly hates Harry and enjoys tormenting him. I wish we’d got more Quidditch or at least more of the team together, it really helps establish Harry’s bond with the members, particularly the twins.

Hawwah

Harry lied to the professors and Severus immediately recognized it. Punishing a student for lying isn't "torment", it's simply being a teacher. My teachers at my boring muggle school did exactly the same.

Predaguy

I like how Dumbledore doesn't even have to wonder who's opening the Chamber of Secrets again, he's already onto ol' Voldy, Just gotta figure out how he's doing it.

Katie

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion when it comes to Snape. In my opinion though I'm in agreement with Giorgia, Snape is a massive bully to not only Harry but other students like Neville too. Yes, he is keeping Harry from harm but that is under Dumbledore's orders. He still hates Harry and enjoys his suffering. But that's what makes him such a complex and interesting character.

Triene

I love Hermione’s scene with Myrtle at the party. And poor Sir Nicholas, being upstaged at his own party. 😭

Garry (Not Jerry)

These are my favourite lines: “"Oh, come on, no teacher's going to fall for that," said Ron. "They'd have to be really thick..." (end of chapter) ‘This is all your fault,’ George said angrily to Wood. ‘”Get the Snitch or die trying” – what a stupid thing to tell him!’

Diego Zenhäusern

Yeah, I found it always really intersting that book Salazar might not have been an unreasonable racisst but instead really worried about the safety of the students (Which seemed to be a kinda valid point)🤔

Diego Zenhäusern

Agreed! Though it also makes me always a little sad that Harry - despite all of it - didn't really try to at least sound a little convinging when he was lying for Nick, because that was his actual main purpose on this party😕😅

Diego Zenhäusern

I think Binns is a pretty bad teacher (not as bad as Lockhard (incompetent) or Snape (abusive) of course). But his scenes are always great comedic relief so I kinda agree with you😅

Hawwah

If Snape bullies students, so does McGonagall. Neville repeatedly endangers his classmates with his sloppy work in Potions lessons. What is Snape supposed to do, let him? Or even praise him for it? If Snape enjoyed Harry's suffering, he would have just let Neville cripple Harry (and others) with his exploding cauldrons full of dangerous chemicals. It would have been really easy. Also, if Snape enjoyed Harry's suffering, why did he stop the Death Eater who was torturing Harry with Cruciatus (end of HBP)? Look, you don't have to like Snape. I'm totally fine with it. But please, please stop making stuff up. The thing I appreciate the most about Snape is how physically gentle and non-violent he always is. And how he secretly protects everyone (primarily Harry but not just him). Suggesting that he enjoys anyone's suffering just proves you don't get his character at all. Remember how he conjured a stretcher for Sirius Black, the person he hated the most in the whole world at that moment? That's who Severus Snape is.

Diego Zenhäusern

100% agree! I always say: Snape is a hero but he's also a bad person.

Hawwah

I wonder how Filch even became a janitor at Hogwarts. It seems cruel that he has to clean everything manually while any teacher (and probably any older student) could do it with just one flick of their wand. No wonder he's so bitter. One thing I really, really dislike about Harry: he has absolutely zero respect for other people's privacy. When I was re-reading the books recently it stood out to me how often the plot moves forward by Harry eavesdropping on other people's conversations, reading other people's mail and even worse invasions of privacy I don't want to spoil for you. Harry had abolutely no right to read Filch's mail. And he doesn't even feel guilty about it later! Just like he didn't feel guilty about falsely accusing Snape at the end of PS. On the other hand, he does feel guilty about stealing the Weasleys' car. I really don't like this double standard and the message it sends to the reader. It's like Harry thinks if he doesn't like someone he's entitled to do whatever he pleases to them. I hope I don't have to explain how wrong this mindset is. The fact is, even if Filch was the most unlikeable person on Earth, it would still be wrong for Harry to invade his privacy. And I wish JKR had made it clear. (End of rant. And sorry for such a long post.)

Katie

@Hawwah You're totally within your rights to have your opinion of Snape and so am I. I didn't want to start an argument I'm just explaining my interpretation of the text. We can all have different opinions of a character and that's fine. Clearly you have a completely different reading of the character of Snape than I do and that's ok 🙂

Diego Zenhäusern

@Hawwah Spoilers: I can totally get behind you saying that Snape never physically abuses his students. But he devinitely does verbally and psychically abuse them (e.g. Insulting Hermione for her teeth or threatening to poison Neville's toad)! Of course should Snape try and protect the class from Neville's dangerous potions. But there is a difference between keeping an extra eye on Neville and pointing out mistakes that he's making in order to prevent from something dangerous happening and shaming and insulting him in front of the entire class or threatening to kill his pet. There is a reason why Neville's Boggart is Snape and it is certainly not because Snape was a nice and pleasant person. The same goes for this chapter: Snape calling out Harry for lying/ asking why he was in the corridor was totally legitimate. But him trying to prevent Harry from playing Quidditch as a punishment was petty and unreasonable. The truth is that Snape was a petty person with a lot of resentment pent up within him that enjoyed making Harry's life difficult and often took his frustrations out on other people as well. And no one can argue that this was part of his act as a double agent. Because if he had had any desire to be more decent (not even nice or supporting!!) towards the students from other houses, he could easily have said that he was afraid Dumbledore would start to misstrust him or even fire him if he was to obviously biased/ abusive towards students from other houses. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that he was a horrible person! As you pointed out Snape was always averse to pysically hurting people and it's made clear that he tried to protect the students from the Carrows in book 7 and that he even came to shed - at the very least a part - of his racist beliefs because he reprimanded Phineas Black for using the word "Mudblood". He was also undeniably brave and a true hero as he risked and sacrificed his life for the good cause. But acting like he was a poor and missunderstood guy that just had to play an act for all the world or even defending his demeanor towards Harry, Neville and any of the other non Slytherin students is - in my opinion - just as much of a disservice to his character as acting like he had no redeeming qualities or that his sacrifice didn't mean anything!

Diego Zenhäusern

Yeah, it really does seem weird that Filch would be the caretaker of Hogwarts. Maybe he originally wanted the job to stay at least within the wizarding world and then became bitter despite himself over the years?🤔 Yeah, Harry's tendency to snoop in other peoples stuff is certainly not a good trait😕 But at least it seems like book Harry at least had the decency not to mention anything about the letter to Ron and Hermione even though it must have been clear to him that Filch was embarrased about it (based on his reaction) even though Harry of course didn't know why.

Katie

@ Diego 💯

Diego Zenhäusern

Something I never though about but noticed this time around is the weird taste of music of the ghosts. The rotten food makes total sense since they can't really smell anything and the decoration is just kinda fitting to an occasion that is somewhat sad and happy at the same time. And so at first sight, the music seems to fit into this picture. But - if you think about it - why would they enjoy music that sound like nails on a chalkboard? I mean their hearing is obviously fine, since they can normaly talk to wizards and each other. And they were living people before. So wouldn't it make more sense that they would enjoy regular, but maybe outdated (depending on how long they've already been dead) music? Also: I actually like that you don't read the replies to the comments, because this allows for spoilery discussions in the replies without a risk of you reading them🙂

Hawwah

Snape was not abusive. You're thinking of Crouch (fake Moody) or Umbridge. Or the Carrows. Snape is a strict and exacting teacher, but he's no worse than McGonagall. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I'd say Snape is the better of the two. Snape is the teacher most concerned with physical safety of his students, it's number one priority for him, which cannot always be said about McGonagall. So yeah, I prefer Snape.

Diego Zenhäusern

Snape might not have been physically abusive but he definitely was psychically abusive (To give two examples: Insulting Hermione for her teeth or threatening to poision Nevilles toad). Also: There is no version of this story (neither book nor movie) where McGonagall is a worse teacher than Snape. Snape prectices outright favoritism towards Slytherin as a whole and Malfoy in particular. His verbal abuse resultet in him being Neville's Boggart, so Neville certainly didn't learn more from Snape than from McGonagall. The same goes for Harry: When Snape wasn't there breathing down his neck, goading and insulting him he actually did a decent job in his OWL's contrary to the rest of the year. So Snape certainly wasn't a good teacher there either, if his pure presence is enough to diminish Harry's performance. And let's not speak about the time where Snape straigth up pushes over the vial of Harry's potion he's supposed to grade in order to give him the lowest mark possible. And to the point of him being concerned with his students physical savety: I completely agree with you, that he never physically harmed his students and he even put considerable effort into protecting the students of Hogwarts from the Carrows without blowing his cover. But not being physically abusive to your students doesn't make you a good teacher, it makes you a decent person. Furthermore, do I dare you to name one instance were McGonagall physically harms any of her students or fails to try and protect them from pysical harm. And even if there was such an instant, Snape beeing better than McGonagall at one single aspect of being a teacher doesn't make him a better teacher overall. Being a good teacher means to be strict but fair. To try and encourage/ support students that are less gifted. And it also means not being psychically abusive of your students and at least to try and not play favorites. So maybe there comes someone to mind with this description? Yes, McGonagall.One beautiful examples for her being a good teacher is in book 6: " "But the problem is Transfiguration. I’m sorry, Longbottom, but an Acceptable’ really isn’t good enough to continue to N.E.W.T level. I just don’t think you’d be able to cope with the coursework.” Neville hung his head. Professor McGonagall peered at him through her square spectacles. “Why do you want to continue with Transfiguration, anyway? I’ve never had the impression that you particularly enjoyed it.” Neville looked miserable and muttered something about “my grandmother wants.” “Hmph,” snorted Professor McGonagall. “It’s high time your grandmother learned to be proud of the grandson she’s got, rather than the one she thinks she ought to have — particularly after what happened at the Ministry.” Neville turned very pink and blinked confusedly; Professor McGonagall had never paid him a compliment before. “I’m sorry, Longbottom, but I cannot let you into my N.E.W.T. class. I see that you have an ‘Exceeds Expectations’ in Charms, however — why not try for a N.E.W.T. in Charms?” “My grandmother thinks Charms is a soft option,” mumbled Neville. “Take Charms,” said Professor McGonagall, “and I shall drop Augusta a line reminding her that just because she failed her Charms O.W.L., the subject is not necessarily worthless.” " Here McGonagall tells Neville clearly - but not in a mean manner - that his OWL's are not good enough for him to take transfiguration as a NEWT class and even jusutifies this assertion by explaining to him that he simply would be overwhlemed with the workload. However, in the same scene she also encourages him to take Charms for his NEWTS because he has good enough grades. And tells him to be proud of the subjects he's good at and not to let his grandmother tell him that Charms is a lesser subject. But to show you that - contrary to you as it seems like - I'm also able to see the flaws of people I think to be good persons/ teachers: Yes, McGonagall is also not perfect. She is very strict - sometimes possibly overly much so - and can be very harsh sometimes. A good example for this is in book 4: " Other members of the staff seemed oddly tense too. “Longbottom, kindly do not reveal that you can’t even perform a simple Switching Spell in front of anyone from Durmstrang!” Professor McGonagall barked at the end of one particularly difficult lesson, during which Neville had accidentally transplanted his own ears onto a cactus. " What McGonagall says to Neville here is just as abusive and cutting as any of the many mean things Snape says to Neville throughout the books. And while her being on edge over the upcomming visit from Durmstrang and Beauxbatons might be an explanation for her abusive demeanor in this scene, it certainly isn't an excuse! Just as Snape being bullied as a child and growing up in a strained and possibly abusive household explains his petty and resentfull character and his psychical abuse of multiple of his students but still doesn't excuse it. Another prove that McGonagall is not a perfect teacher is that, whilst she clearly does not favore Griffindor over other houses (as is made clear already in book 1 where Ron complains that she could show at least a little favoritism towards Griffindor) it can certainly not be denied, that she seems to grow particularly close to Harry over the course of the books and seems to be very concerned about him and his safety. And even though there is not a single line in all of the seven books that would suggest this, I can not 100% assure you that her liking of Harry never influenced her grading at least a little. The excerpt of book 6 I shared earlier in this post also shows another weaknes of her: She rarely compliments any of her students. Whilst a teacher obviously shouldn't compliment or engourage students if they do something outright wrong, it can be very motivating and encouraging to compliment them for something they've done well or even if they have clearly improved from one point in time to another. So McGonagall could certainly do this a little more often. TL;DR Snape wasn't physically abusive but definitely psychically abusive and therefore not a good teacher. And trying to defend his teaching methods or to diminish his abusive behaviour is - in my opinion - just as diminishing of his character and it's complexity as to pretend that he had no redeeming qualities at all or wasn't brave and heroic in the bigger picture.

Hawwah

Actually, Harry wanted to tell about Filch's letter to Ron and Hermione, but he got distracted by Fred and George's antics and forgot about it.

Diego Zenhäusern

Hmm, good point I forgott about that.🤔 Welp, I guess I can't give him any benefit of the doubt then😅

Hawwah

(It seems like my post above was deleted. Was it because of spoilers or did I delete it myself by accident? I posted it again with spoiler warnings. If my post was indeed deleted by a moderator, I would like to learn the reason why so I could avoid it in the future.)

Diego Zenhäusern

@Hawwah "But to show you that - contrary to you as it seems like - I'm also able to see the flaws of people I think to be good persons/ teachers:" Sorry, this remark was uncalled for, and I'd like to appologize for it😕

Hawwah

That's a good point about the music, I haven't ever thought of it! However the food doesn't make much sense either - sure, they can't smell it, but the sight of rotting food full of mold and worms certainly must be repulsive? Unless their preferences did change after becoming ghosts. And why do ghosts lose the sense of smell but not sight or hearing? That seems completely arbitrary.

Diego Zenhäusern

Spoilers: Firtst off: I’d like to thank you as well for your very collected, structured and civilized response🙂! To your point about what it means to be a "bad" person. I'm sorry in this case we just had different understandings of what I meant with "bad". I didn't mean to imply that he was overall morally bad but more bad in the sense of "not a very decent or nice person". To your point on Snape being the "bigger" hero/ his sacrifice being "more" selfless: Whilst many people might say you couldn't or shouldn't compare the two, I personally totally agree with you! Him sacrificing his life for people he doesn't even really like is very noble and impressive, more so than sacrificing it for people you like! As to wheter Snape is morally bad or good is actually an interesting question: He definitely originally sided with the good side not because he thought Voldemorts beliefes were wrong, but only because he threatened Lily. And he wanted to protect Harry from future attacks by Voldemort not because Harry was worthy of protection in his own right and it was the morally right thing to do, but because he was basically an extention of Lily. So at that point he definitely was a morally bad person happening to stand on the side of good. It is hard to know exactly how much his views changed over the time because we never are in his head. However we get a scene in book 7 were he reprimands Phineas Black for using the word Mudblood, even though they're all alone. So I'm actually inclined to belive that Snape shed at least part - if not all - of his predjudices on muggleborns and blood status. This is also supported by the fact that - at least to my recollection - whilst he's abusive to Hermione he never outright says or even really implies that it is about her blood status. He also is abusive of Neville as a pureblood, which further supports the assumption that it isn't about blood status. As I'm thinking about it I generally can't really recall a specific instance where Snape seems to care about blood status. So yeah, I think I'm pretty much sold on that part. However, there is also this scene in book 7: " “I have spied for you and lied for you, put myself in mortal danger for you. Everything was supposed to be to keep Lily Potter’s son safe. Now you tell me you have been raising him like a pig for slaughter – ” “But this is touching, Severus,” said Dumbledore seriously. “Have you grown to care for the boy, after all?” “For him?” shouted Snape. “Expecto Patronum!” From the tip of his wand burst the silver doe. She landed on the office floor, bounded once across the office, and soared out of the window. Dumbledore watched her fly away, and as her silvery glow faded he turned back to Snape, and his eyes were full of tears. “After all this time?” “Always,” said Snape. " This scene outright shows that Snape still doesn't see Harry as person in its own right which is worthy of protection, but that he still only - or at the very least predominantly - wants to protect Harry because he's Lily's son. So this means that in this instance he's definitely not acting out of moral goodness. So overall I'd say Snape clearly leans to morally good (he seems to be in the fight against Voldemort for the right reasons) but also has some moral greyness to him (regarding his motives in protecting Harry specifically). On that account I wouldn't call Sirius a morally bad person either (He's also in the bigger fight because he clearly doesn't believe in the whole pureblood rhetoric). But I'll freely admit that he's wildly overglorified by most of the fandom, that he can be just as petty as Snape and that the way he bullied Snape and the way he, even as an adult, never seems to feel guilty about it (contrary to Lupin for instance), show that he definitely has some bad character traits/ some parts of him that are morally bad. So yeah, the more often I read the books the more I think Sirius wasn't really that decent of a guy either. The only things that put him over Snape for me personally are: 1. He never believed into the pureblood rhetoric and never was a Death Eater. 2. He's only petty and harsh/ abusive towards Snape and not to random people (like Snape letting his resentments out on multiple of his students). And whilst he died protecting Harry, I think we can both agree that, whilst he wasn’t always a decent person (especially in his interactions with Snape), he would have been prepared to sacrifice himself for the cause itself as well (just like was Harry). On the point of Neville's toad: " “Please, sir,” said Hermione, “please, I could help Neville put it right —” “I don’t remember asking you to show off, Miss Granger,” said Snape coldly, and Hermione went as pink as Neville. “Longbottom, at the end of this lesson we will feed a few drops of this potion to your toad and see what happens. Perhaps that will encourage you to do it properly.” " " The Gryffindors watched fearfully. The Slytherins looked excited. Snape picked up Trevor the toad in his left hand and dipped a small spoon into Neville’s potion, which was now green. He trickled a few drops down Trevor’s throat. There was a moment of hushed silence, in which Trevor gulped; then there was a small pop, and Trevor the tadpole was wriggling in Snape’s palm. The Gryffindors burst into applause. Snape, looking sour, pulled a small bottle from the pocket of his robe, poured a few drops on top of Trevor, and he reappeared suddenly, fully grown. “Five points from Gryffindor,” said Snape, which wiped the smiles from every face. “I told you not to help him, Miss Granger. Class dismissed.” " The first excerpt clearly show that Snape threatened to feed whatever potion (deadly, posionous or completely harmless) Neville might brew until the end of the lesson to Trevor. This threat alone would be highly abusive and even if he hadn't fed Trevor anything at the end of the lesson, it would have been not something a good teacher or a really decent person would do. However, the second excerpt shows that Snape did not only go through with his threat but also was angry when the potion worked perfectly fine, even going as far as to punish Hermione for helping Neville to prevent him form harming Trevor. This is textual evidence that he was prepared to feed the potion to Trevor even if he’d seen that it would be harmful and that he actually hoped it would harm Trevor. Now, we could argue about wether or not Snape would have actually let Trevor die or if he would have given him an antidote if something bad would have happened to him (I’m actually prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt here and lean towards the latter), but it is an undeniable fact that he did hope something bad would happen to him. To the comparison of McGonagall and Snape: I wrote a long comment on this to a replie you made to another comment ( the one of "S1lm4r1l") where I go in depht. There I touched on multiple reasons why McGonagall is a better teacher (and as for that matter also a more decent person). To adress the specific allegation you make in this comment: McGonagall is by far not as abusive towards Neville as Snape. She rarely attacks Neville as a person but rather critisises his work (which is certainly not nice and something she could improve on in general, but also not abusive). However, I’ll grant you that she does this often very harshly and that she could definitely be more patient with and nicer to Neville. However, in my other post I have also given you an example where she actually is as abusive as Snape (as well as other excerpts that show some of her shortcommings as a teacher). So I’m not pretending McGonagall is a perfect teacher either! But I invite you to give me other excerpts were she is straight up shaming Neville or attacking him as a person. Furthermore is McGonagall – at least to my recollection (and if you have contradicting excerpts I’d totally be ready to see them and take them into account!) - never shown to be abusive like this (like in the excerpt given in the other comment) towards others of her students. To summ up a few other points that make her a better teacher/ more decent person than Snape: She also doesn’t show any clear favoritism towards a particular house (contradictory to Snape who clearly favors Slytherins over the other houses) and is also able to see her student’s strenghts and tries to encourage them (wheter it be about her own classes or the classes of other teachers). So lastly I would ask you to heed your own advice: Just because Snape was a truly brave and heroic person doesn’t mean that it doesn’t matter that he was petty and abusive. His heroism doesn’t diminish the way he treated Harry and the other’s throughout all the years at school. And believe me I’m saying this as a person that - until the point were Snape kills Dumbledore - allways firmly believed that Dumbledore was right to trust Snape (even after his scene with Narcissa, which I only saw as a way of Rowling showing us which lies Snape told the Death Eaters/ Voldemort to earn their trust) and that he’d come down on the right side of history in the end. And after reading the books for the first time I too thought Snape was a tragically misunderstood person. But after reading the books for multiple times I came to the conclusion that the case wasn’t this simple: Snape was brave and heroic in the grand scheme of things, but he was also petty and abusive to multiple people in his day to day life. And while there are certainly factors that explain his daily demeanor (him being bulied, him growing up in a strained and possibly abusive household) they certainly don’t excuse it, just as him being brave and heroic doesn’t. To pretend that Snape was a good teacher or a decent person in his daily life is just as false as to pretend that Barty Crouch jr. was a decent person because he acted like it for nearly a whole school year. And believe me: I disslike it just as much as you when people can’t see or don’t want to admitt that Snape was brave and heroic and that he also had other redeeming qualities/ moments! But I also think it is just as diminishing towards his character to just "cut him some slack" and pretend that he wasn’t also a deeply flawed person/ teacher in his day to day life🤔😕. Oh and P.S. The fact that Snape is physically unatractive just shows some of Rowlings own limitations and prejudices as she generally depicts people that are (or she wants us to see as) "bad" or "indecent" as physically unatractive, impling that there is a correlation when there actually isn't. So I could have very well done without that part of the books🤔🙂

Rebecca May

True! His attempt really was pretty damn poor 😅

Hawwah

(WARNING: Possible spoilers ahead) I never said that Snape was a particularly good teacher. I consider him average. My point was that he wasn't an abusive teacher. And I stand by it. Yes, Snape was Neville's boggart. And McGonagall was Hermione's. Does that prove that McGonagall was abusive? When I was Neville's age I was frightened of my math and physics teacher because he was very strict with his markings. Now, as an adult, I think he was one of the best teachers I ever had. I bet an adult Neville would chuckle at the memory of him being scared of Professor Snape just like I chuckle at my memory of being scared of my teacher. People often say Snape heavily favors Slytherin but what are actual proofs of that? I've debated people who swore to me that Snape "awards crazy amounts of points to Slytherin", but when I asked them for exact quotes, they never replied again. That's because in the books, Snape never awards any points to anyone. Pottermore has a handy infographics on it, I can send you a link if you're interested. We see that Slytherin students wait for Snape to turn his back before they start misbehaving which implies that he would punish them if he saw them. If I remember correctly, he also gives detention to Crabbe and Goyle for bad work in DADA lessons in HBP. "Snape straigth up pushes over the vial of Harry's potion" That never happened. If you read the scene carefully, you'll see that it doesn't say anywhere that it was Snape who pushed it. Harry was just being clumsy. But you're certainly not the first person who was sure that Snape did it. It shows how eager the people who don't like Snape are to accuse him of any wrongdoing. It almost makes me think you might be biased against him. ;-) I like the quote you posted, when McGonagall talks with Neville about his future studies. But you seem to overlook this: "Professor McGonagall had never paid him a compliment before." In Neville's first 5 years at Hogwarts, McGonagall never paid Neville a compliment, only reprimanded his bad work. It seems that she and Snape aren't so different after all. I'm also glad that you posted the quote from GoF. That's what I had in mind when I said that Snape is strict, but no worse than McGonagall. Let's face it, if it was Snape who said it, Snape haters would never stop talking about it. But because it was McGonagall, it's rarely ever mentioned. (Just to be clear, I don't consider you a Snape hater. Even if I disagree with your opinion on Snape, I appreciate that you're trying to be fair.) Neville's toad - I already answered it in another thread. Snape didn't threaten to poison him, he simply said he was going to feed him Neville's Shrinking Solution. Properly prepared Shrinking Solution is harmless. "I dare you to name one instance were McGonagall physically harms any of her students (...)" In the first book, when she finds Draco Malfoy out of his bed at night, she drags him by his ear. Maybe it doesn't count as "harm", but it's certainly a corporeal punishment. "(...) or fails to try and protect them from pysical harm" McGonagall punishes 4 first-years by sending them to the Forbidden Forest at night. Doesn't seem very safe to me. When Neville loses his list of passwords in PoA, McGonagall forbids everyone to tell him the new password, so he has to wait in front of the portrait until someone else uses it. While she believes there is a mass-murderer on the loose. McGonagall is also very partial when it comes to Quidditch. I know, so is Snape, but my point is that he isn't any worse than she is. She didn't punish Harry when he flew a broom without permission in his first year, bent the rules for him (first-years aren't allowed to have brooms) and even bought him a broom herself. TL,DR: I never argued that Snape was a better teacher than McGonagall, I merely said that he cared more for the physical safety of his students than she did and that while he was a strict and exacting teacher, he was no worse that her. And I still stand by it.

Diego Zenhäusern

Yeah, it definitely is arbitrary😅! Hmmm, good point, it definitely doesn't make as much sense as I thought it would🤔🙈! Tough I think one definitely could argue, that they're just so desperate to smell anything that they'd even put up with the ugly sights, hoping against hope that they might be able to smell something this time🤔😅 I mean I had COVID last year and not being able to smell what I ate was incredibly frustrating. So I was eating way less than normally (especially small snacks inbetween meals) because every time I became hungry I was like: "But why should I eat this thing I really like, when I can't taste it? I'll wait a few days and eat it when I can taste again." So I could believe that not being able to taste anything for hundreds of years could make you desperate enough to put up with most anything🤔😅.

S1lm4r1l

Ah. But that's how Harry was brought up. What he's used to. He's simply applying what he learned about privacy at the Dursley's to other people. Uncle Vernon doesn't hesitate to read and destroy Harry's Hogwarts Letter. The idea that Harry would therefore have respect for Filch's privacy, especially when the letter lies so invitingly on the desk is rather laughable.

Hawwah

When we compare Snape and McGonagall as teachers, we see again that they have a lot in common. Both are very intelligent and experts in their respective subjects. Both have very high expectations of their students (perhaps even unreasonably high). That makes them ideal teachers for highly gifted, highly motivated students, but not so much for average or below-average students, because they have very little patience with them. Both can be verbally harsh to their students but if needed, they would protect them without hesitation. Snape and McGonagall are actually very similar, more than most readers realize.

Diego Zenhäusern

There's also Petunia from who we know that she likes to spy on the neighbours over the fence😅. Nevertheless, I personally don't really like that explanation too much...because Harry neither likes nor respects Vernon (or Petunia for that matter), so one would think he wouldn't want to mimik him🤔😅. I mean, he also doesn't become the biggest bully of the school, even though Dudley showed him how its done😅. Either way it would only explain his behaviour but not excuse it. And I personally don't even think it needs o be excused. Everyone has better and worse parts in their personality so this makes Harry just a more realistic character🤔🙂

Katie

Adding to your point Diego, Harry is also only a 12 year old boy at this point. If he was a fully grown adult then it would be a different matter. This scene shows that Harry has a natural curiosity. If he never had that trait then he probably wouldn't have solved at least half the mysteries in this series haha

Annamarie schwirian

I love how they wrote the Death party scene. I think it was a scene that would have allowed people watching the movies to understand the background of the Wizarding culture better. I also think it would make for a great Halloween event at the universal parks.

Hawwah

So, my post above was deleted again. What is going on here?

Hawwah

That's a possible explanation :) I hope you're all right now and that your smell came back. I never got COVID but a relative of mine did and she can't smell anything to this day (it's been over a year). She always says it's very frustrating, too.

Hawwah

@ Katie Harry is only 12 but he has no problem recognizing he did something wrong when it comes to the Weasleys' car. Age obviously isn't the issue here.

Hawwah

If my comment got deleted because it broke some rule, I will respect it. I just would like to know which rule I broke so I could avoid it in the future.

Katie

@Hawwah I think the reason Harry feels bad about the car (in hindsight) is because of the consequences of his actions - My Weasley being investigated - and he feels so guilty because of the hospitality he received from Arthur and Molly when he stayed at The Burrow. Whereas Filch has been nothing but horrible to Harry. I'm not saying that makes it ok to snoop into Filch's things but I think that might be 12 year old logic. Stealing the car was definitely as a result of being 12 years old too. Reading the books as an adult it isn't always easy to get back into that mindset of a child. That's one of the reasons why Harry's character is written so well. He acts his age!

Diego Zenhäusern

Yeah, my taste was only gone for like 4 or 5 day and I didn't have any other strong symptoms🙂 Uff, yeah I'm sure it would be incredibly frustating to permanently loose your taste!😕😮 And I'd also like to emphasize again that you've totally made a good point I hadn't even consider previously🙈😅

Diego Zenhäusern

Spoilers: To the Hermione’s Boggart vs Neville’s Boggart situation: "Hermione did everything perfectly until she reached the trunk with the Boggart in it. After about a minute inside it, she burst out again, screaming. “Hermione!” said Lupin, startled. “What’s the matter?” “P-P-Professor McGonagall!” Hermione gasped, pointing into the trunk. “Sh-she said I’d failed everything!” It took a little while to calm Hermione down. When at last she had regained a grip on herself, she, Harry, and Ron went back to the castle. Ron was still slightly inclined to laugh at Hermione’s Boggart, but an argument was averted by the sight that met them on the top of the steps. " If one reads the passage closely, it is heavily implied, that Hermiones boggart isn't McGonagall, but rather her failing all her classes (Hermione wouldn’t mention that part if it wasn’t important to the Boggart. And I highly doubt Ron would find it amusing if Hermione was afraid of McGonagall, wherease it seems perfetly within his character to want to mock her for her biggest fear being the unrealistic assumption that she could ever fail all her classes). As to why it is McGonagall who delivers this message to her: It could certainly be, that Hermione has a lot of respect for McGonagall and therefore disappoint her would be nearly as bad as failing in the first place, so she sees McGonagall telling her that she'e failed instead for instance of Flictwick or Snape or Lupin. Howerver, this still wouldn't mean that she was afraid of McGonagall but just that she was afraid of disappointing her (A notable difference, since Neville’s Snape-Boggart didn’t need to say anything to frighten him, meaning that Neville was afraid of him as a person and not only of what he might have to say to him). But it could also just be, because McGonagall is the head of Gryffindor house and would therefore probably be the one to deliver such a message to Hermione. I know what you mean when you say that the strict teachers were often the best ones. I actually had a biology teacher that was very strict and exact and a chemistry one that was often joking around. In the first year everyone hated the former and loved the latter (well, I didn't as much as most, but I would still have sayed that I prefered the latter/ liked him more). But after the third year it was basically the reverse: The funny teacher was still making jokes and fooling around even though nearly everyone in the class didn't understand most of the things he was teaching and so this started to get on everyones nerve because they felt kinda mocked. On the other hand people started to respect the strict teacher because he would actually try to explain things again differently if asked (instead of wasting time with jokes) and he would also hand out script with notes and indicators which parts/ concepts of the subject matter were most important and therefore more likely to come up in the tests. But the thing is: Snape isn't just a strict teacher. Neville doesn't just dislike him or was frightened of him. He literally was his worst fear! You don't get to be someones worst fear by being strict or a little mean/ unpleasant, you have to be abusive. And just incidentally: The fact that Neville's Boggart and not McGonagall tells you straight up which of them Neville feared more. On Snape not awarding points towards Slytherins: Here you are absolute right in one way (Snape never really awards points to anyone) but also somwhat wrong in another (Snape doesn’t favour Slytherins in his point awardmend). Because favoritism doesn't need to mean that he's awarding a lot of points to Slytherin's. It can also mean that he's deducting points from everyone but Slytherin. I haven't found your Pottermore graphic (though I'd definitely be interested to see it, so if you have that link that would be great :)). But I’ve at least found this link: https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/House_points: Here you can see, that Snape basically only deducts points from Gryffindor (and once from Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw respectively), but never from Slytherin. MgGonagall on the other hand is shown to both give and take points from Gryffindor showing that she’s not biased in favor of her house. It even shows the opposite: She deducts 50 points each of all three Gryffindors but only 20 points from Malfoy for the same crime (beeing up at night in book 1). As to him punishing Slytherins as well as students from other houses: You’re absolutely right in that even Slytherins couldn’t do whatever they pleased! But that his favoritism was more subtile than that and that, for isntance, they definitely seemed to have more leeway than the Gryffindors for minor disturbances of the class, especially if Snape felt like it in the moment (I’ll expand on this again in my next comment, so I won’t go to much into this here): " Snape prowled through the fumes, making waspish remarks about the Gryffindors’ work while the Slytherins sniggered appreciatively. Draco Malfoy, who was Snape’s favorite student [I’ll freely admit that this particular assertion could be due to Harry having preconceived notions so I don’t consider it part of my argument!], kept flicking puffer-fish eyes at Ron and Harry, who knew that if they retaliated they would get detention faster than you could say “Unfair.” " So where is the scene in the books where he strolls around making fun of the Slytherins and the Gryffindors get to laugh? At the same time I’ll also concede that it doesn’t tell us wheter Snape seemed to see Malfoy throwing the eyes. So we can’t assume that he just ddn’t get punished because he was Slytherin but that it very possibly could have been because Snape never actually saw him doing that. " “Ah . . . reading magazines under the table as well?” Snape added, snatching up the copy of Witch Weekly. “A further ten points from Gryffindor . . . oh but of course . . .” Snape’s black eyes glittered as they fell on Rita Skeeter’s article. “Potter has to keep up with his press cuttings. . The dungeon rang with the Slytherins’ laughter, and an unpleasant smile curled Snape’s thin mouth. To Harry’s fury, he began to read the article aloud. “ ‘Harry Potter’s Secret Heartache . . . dear, dear, Potter, what’s ailing you now? ‘A boy like no other, perhaps . . .’ ” Harry could feel his face burning. Snape was pausing at the end of every sentence to allow the Slytherins a hearty laugh. The article sounded ten times worse when read by Snape. Even Hermione was blushing scarlet now. " So where’s the scene were Snape reads something (potentially about a Slytherin) in front of the class to make the Gryffindors laugh? But it even more than his subtle favoritism this scene shows the kind of beahviour I’m speaking about when say "abusive" and "things McGonagall wouldn’t do": What Snape is doing here has nothing to do with teaching or even criticising someone. Deducting the 10 points from Gryffindor and taking the magazine is absolutely legitimate but everything that comes after this is petty and abusive; he’s litterally bullying his students and it’s for his personal gratification (and potentially the one of the Slytherins) as he’s shown to enjoy doing it (shown by lines like: "Snape’s black eyes GLITTERED", "unpleasant SMILE curled Snape’s thin mouth" and "Snape was pausing at the end of every sentence to ALLOW the Slytherins a HEARTY LAUGH") That’s something McGonagall never does and I’m sure that’s something your physics teacher never did either. Moments like this are to me the clear demarcation between McGonagall and Snape. When McGongall is abusive it is usually about her missguideldy overreaction and trying to prevent students from repeating a mistake in the future, but there are never signs of her enjoying her actions (as you’ll see latter on in my next comment). When Snape is abusive it is - more often than - not to his own gratification. On the spilling of the potion: " At the end of the lesson he scooped some of the potion into a flask, corked it, and took it up to Snape’s desk for marking, feeling that he might at last have scraped an E. He had just turned away when he heard a smashing noise; Malfoy gave a gleeful yell of laughter. Harry whipped around again. His potion sample lay in pieces on the floor, and Snape was watching him with a look of gloating pleasure. “Whoops,” he said softly. “Another zero, then, Potter . . .” Harry was too incensed to speak. He strode back to his cauldron, intending to fill another flask and force Snape to mark it, but saw to his horror that the rest of the contents had vanished. " At this point I’m apealing to you to be honest and reflective. Because from the structure of you’re arguments I gather that you’re an intelligent person and therefore are able to read the tone and intention of a scene and not a roboter that only understands what is explicitly told to him: Does this really sound like it was Harry’s mistake? Snape was looking GLOATING and he said WHOOPS. You don’t say "Whoops" or "look gloating" if you didn’t do anyting, your student has been clumsy and his vial fell of the table. You say "Whoops" when you did something, when you made a "mistake" and not when someone else made one. And if Snape didn’t do it, why does he immediately say "Another zero, then, Potter…". If you didn’t do that on purpose/ had nothing to do with it you say something like "Oh, (sh*t), your vial fell off…just bring me a new sample." or at the very least "Godddamn Potter, watch what you’re doing!". And even if we apply the most general reading possible and belief that it was actually Harry who nocked the vial over and that Harry is an unreliable narrator and just "imagined" Snape’s "gloating pleasure", the point still stands that Snape jumped to the oppurtunity to give him zero points without a second thought and bevor ehe knew Harry couldn’t bring him a secon vial. Which clearly indicates that he wasn’t sorry about it, but happy to seize the first possible opportu ity to give him zero points. On the compliment thing: I mean, if you read my response carefully, you’ll find that I totally acknowledged in my comment that this was one of McGonagalls shortcommings and actually pointed to exactly that line. But arguing that this makes her worse than Snape only works if Snape is complementing anyone else than Slytherins (Well, and maybe Hermione at some point? Idk, I could see him accepting her outstanding talent and actually complementing her). So if you have an excerpt for that I might reconsider my stance on this point🤔 On Nevilles toad: I already tackled this point in our other discussion (under Giorgia M’s comment). But I’ll reitterate it here so we don’t have to jump around: "His potion, which was supposed to be a bright, acid green, had turned — “Orange, Longbottom,” said Snape, ladling some up and allowing to splash back into the cauldron, so that everyone could see. “Orange. Tell me, boy, does anything penetrate that thick skull of yours? Didn’t you hear me say, quite clearly, that only one cat spleen was needed? Didn’t I state plainly that a dash of leech juice would suffice? What do I have to do to make you understand, Longbottom?” Neville was pink and trembling. He looked as though he was on the verge of tears. “Please, sir,” said Hermione, “please, I could help Neville put it right —” “I don’t remember asking you to show off, Miss Granger,” said Snape coldly, and Hermione went as pink as Neville. “Longbottom, at the end of this lesson we will feed a few drops of this potion to your toad and see what happens. Perhaps that will encourage you to do it properly.” Snape moved away, leaving Neville breathless with fear. “Help me!” he moaned to Hermione. " Once again I urge you to properly read the quote and reflect about what is said and done. Snape doesn’t say "At the end of the leson I’ll feed trevor a bit of this shrinking solution, I’ve prepared over here, so you can see how it is supposed to work." He says " Longbottom, at the end of this lesson we will feed a few drops of this potion to your toad and see what happens. Perhaps that will encourage you to do it properly." Are you really trying to argue that Snape is telling Neville that he’ll feed shrinking solution to Trevor? No! He clearly tells Neville that his potion is fucked up (He say that it’s the wrong colour and where he’d already fucked up so far.) and then goes on to tell him that they will feed the final version of this currently fucked up potion to Trevor and then "see what happens". So he all but outright says "You fucked up and if you don’t fix it I’ll poison your toad". Pretending that Snape’s doing anything less than threaten to poison Trevor is like pretending that Umbridge didn’t know in the following scene that her quill will cut the message Harry writes down into his hand: " “You haven’t given me any ink,” he said. “Oh, you won’t need ink,” said Professor Umbridge with the merest suggestion of a laugh in her voice. Harry placed the point of the quill on the paper and wrote: I must not tell lies. He let out a gasp of pain. The words had appeared on the parchment in what appeared to be shining red ink. At the same time, the words had appeared on the back of Harry’s right hand, cut into his skin as though traced there by a scalpel — yet even as he stared at the shining cut, the skin healed over again, leaving the place where it had been slightly redder than before but quite smooth. Harry looked around at Umbridge. She was watching him, her wide, toadlike mouth stretched in a smile. “Yes?” “Nothing,” said Harry quietly. He looked back at the parchment, placed the quill upon it once more, wrote I must not tell lies, and felt the searing pain on the back of his hand for a second time; once again the words had been cut into his skin, once again they healed over seconds later. " I mean Umbridge never said the quill would hurt him, she probably thought her quill was just magic to save ink and therefore didn’t need any, don’t you think? I mean she even askes him if he’s alright (Yes?), so Harry would just have needed to tell her and she would have been "Oh god, I didn’t know my quill did this, I thought it was just saving ink! Here I’ll give you a normal one." But nobody that understands anything about tone and context, would ever think this, right? Because people can read tone and understand that Umbridge knows fully well what she’s doing. In the same way Snape knows fully well what he’s doing and to pretend that he doesn’t understand how he’s blatantly threatening and abusing Neville in this situation is actually one of the biggest insults to Snape’s intelligence I’ve ever seen! So let’s not play dumb and argue about what Snape ended up giving Trevor (a correctly prepared Shrinking Solution), but acknowledge what he was threatening to give to Trevor (whatever potentially poisonous bullshit he’d brew together in this lesson). With that we can also get to the second excerpt: Threatening Neville in this way was allready fucked up and abusive. But up until this point one could argue that Snape was just bluffing. But then this happens: " The Gryffindors watched fearfully. The Slytherins looked excited. Snape picked up Trevor the toad in his left hand and dipped a small spoon into Neville’s potion, which was now green. He trickled a few drops down Trevor’s throat. There was a moment of hushed silence, in which Trevor gulped; then there was a small pop, and Trevor the tadpole was wriggling in Snape’s palm. The Gryffindors burst into applause. Snape, looking sour, pulled a small bottle from the pocket of his robe, poured a few drops on top of Trevor, and he reappeared suddenly, fully grown. “Five points from Gryffindor,” said Snape, which wiped the smiles from every face. “I told you not to help him, Miss Granger. Class dismissed.” " First off, Snape is looking SOUR, which clearly implies that he’s dissapointed about what just happened (just as " her wide, toadlike mouth stretched in a smile. " clearly implies that Umbridge is happy about and aware of what is happening to Harry). So know we have confirmation from the text that Snape was not only PREPARED to feed Trevor something that wouldn’t work as a proper Shrinking Soluion but was actually EXPECTING it to not work. And if you want to argue with Harry as an unreliable narrator, then the text doubles down and shows (not tells) us that that Snape is upset about what happened because he punishes Hermione for helping him, AFTER the potion worked properly. And yes, he’s technically not wrong in taking away points from her because she went against his direct orders not the help Neville. But the important thing isn’t that he takes away points but the timing with witch he does it! Because there are two options: 1. He only knew that Hermione helped Neville AFTER the potion worked fine, this clearly shows that he expected the potion to not work properly and still gave it to Trevor. 2. He KNEW BEVORHAND but DIDN’T CARE to take away point from Hermione. This possibility is even worse in my opinion. Because this would tell us, that he didn’t care about Hermione’s involvement until the potion worked properly, which in reverse means that her involvement wouldn’t have bothered him if the potion would have still turned out bad (Which would mean he didn’t jus expect but outright plan to harm Trevor in order to "teach" Neville a lesson. And punished Hermione for interfeering with this plan). Both options show that harming Trevor was something he was expecting and that he resented Hermione for interfeering. But as I already said in my other post: I’m not even saying that Snape would not have given Trevor an antidote if the potion had harmed him. I’m saying that Snape threatened Neville to poison his Toad (fucked up and abusive) and went through with the threat expecting it to happen (even worse). As to your points about McGonagall harming students/ failing to protect them from harm: Well, you’ve got me there! I’ll admit a defeat when I see one! Both of these situations undeniably happened and show that McGonagall isn’t as averse to corporal punishment as I thought her to be in my head. So yes, Snape actually wins in the argument about physical abuse. And yes, I had preconceived notions about her readines for violence based on the overall impression I had of her and I’ll have to have a closer look at her one future rereads. Finally: I’ll coment on " the leaving Neville outside of the common room" – situation in a separate comment as it shows of the fundamental differences between most – but potentially not all )I’m open to acknowledge exceptions from my observations) – of McGonagall’s abusive behaviours and most – but definitely not all – of Snape’s abusive behaviours throughout the books.

Diego Zenhäusern

Spoilers: On the difference between McGonagall’s and Snapes abuse: First off: Yes, I’ll admit that McGonagall leaving Neville to wait oustside the common room, waiting for another student that knows the passwort to let him in is just as abusive as what Snape does with Trevor! So thank you for reminding me of that instance, because it really shows what McGonagall is capaple of and that I’ll have to pay closer attention to what she does, especially in regards to Neville🤔😕. And it also challenged me to find and put into words the textual and tonal differences I see between McGonagall’s and Snape’s abusive behaviours. And why I can be more forgiving of one than the other. So, the most important thing that generally – but not without any exceptions! - differentiates McGongall’s from Snape’s abusive behaviours, and not only makes Snape (in my eyes) a worse teacher but also a less decent person is the underlying reason for their abusive behaviours: This is because McGonagall’s abuse is the result of her being impatient with students that don’t meet her expectations and missguidedly overreacting in an attempt to make them not repeat the same mistakes. This is visible by the facts that it’s DIRECTLY CORRELATED to the performance of the student’s in question, that it is generally NOT UNPROVOKED/ only happens in SITUATIONS OF HIGH STAKES OR STRESS and that she’s (generally, but potentially not exclusively?) NOT SHOWN TO ENJOY her behaviour. Snape’s abuse on the other hand generally stems from his internalized resentments based on his childhood-trauma and his need to let this resentment out on other people. This is visible by the facts that it often does NOT REALLY CORRELATED to the performance of the student’s in question, but aimed at multiple students independant of how well they do in his class (see Hermione), that it often happenes UNPROVOKED/ in situations WITHOUTH HIGH STAKES OR STRESS and that he’s often - but not allways! - SHOWN TO ENJOY his behaviour. This means that to me McGonagall’s abuse is less problematic because it only occurs in specific situation and not without a clear reason which is USUALLY at least SOMEWHAT IN PROPORTION to the abusiv ebehaviour that ensues. (as will be shown in my following examples) . This means that it is very likely to occur less often and is also potentially easier to avoid for her students (e.g. by avoiding her in situations of her being overly stressed) or even prepare for it (e.g. by knowing that she’ll become made if you fuck up the spell but won’t if you mange to pull it of). On the other hand Snape’s abuse is largely undirected and may fall upon any (non Slytherin?) student, thought it will still hit some people more than others. And it might hit you you at a time where you at least did something to provoke a reaction – which is OFTEN (but not allways!) CONSIDERABLY OUT OF PROPORTIONS (like in the two examples shown later on below) – or it could hit you at a time were you didn’t do anything at all to even beginn to explain the abusive behaviour (e.g. the situation with Hermione’s teeth) . This means that his abusive behaviour is higly likely to be more prevalent (more potential victims and causes) and also more difficult to avoid or expect (e.g. Hermione’s teeth). However, I’ll also say that both of them should work on the roote of their abusive behaviour in order to mitigate it in the future before continuing to teach children! To make my reasoning more clear and show you, where I find the tonal and textual evidence for my assumtions, I’ll present in the following 5 situations of abuse of both McGonaggal and Snape: Neville having to wait in front of the portrait hole: " “He had ‘em!” said Sir Cadogan proudly. “Had the whole week’s, my lady! Read ‘em off a little piece of paper!” Professor McGonagall pulled herself back through the portrait hole to face the stunned crowd. She was white as chalk. “Which person,” she said, her voice shaking, “which abysmally foolish person wrote down this week’s passwords and left them lying around?” There was utter silence, broken by the smallest of terrified squeaks. Neville Longbottom, trembling from head to fluffy slippered toes, raised his hand slowly into the air. " " Neville was in total disgrace. Professor McGonagall was so furious with him she had banned him from all future Hogsmeade visits, given him a detention, and forbidden anyone to give him the password into the tower. Poor Neville was forced to wait outside the common room every night for somebody to let him in, while the security trolls leered unpleasantly at him. None of these punishments, however, came close to matching the one his grandmother had in store for him. Two days after Black’s break-in, she sent Neville the very worst thing a Hogwarts student could receive over breakfast — a Howler. " In this case we see: 1. In McGongall was in a situation of high stress; to her a mass murdered just nearly MURDERED one of her students because Neville wrote down the passwords for the common room. So this explains why she was more inclined towards abusive behaviour in the following moments. 2. Her giving him detention and baning him from Hogmsead visits seem appropriate punishments to him nearly getting a student murered, so she hasn’t really been abusive this far. But her not telling Neville future passwords - and the ensuing consequences of that decision - was! However, her abusive beahviour was clearly and directly aimed at preventing Neville from repeating the same mistake: Her abusive behaviour (as missguided and not excusable as at it is) directly prevents the same mistake from happening again (if he hasn’t got the passwords, he can’t write them down and lose them again). Both points show that this abuse is not about her personal enjoyment. And the text supports this; McGonagall is aghast/afraid "white as chalk" and angry "McGonagall was so furious with him" when she punishes Neville abusively, but nothing indicates that she likes doing it. Was this response abusive and mean spirited? Absolutely, maybe even more so than Snape’s since Neville had to wait outside the common room for multiple nights! Was her response good? Hell, no! She could at the very least have made sure that someone is charged with accompanying Neville from the last lesson into the common room every night (potentially making it an alternating duty). Or she could have simply emphasized to him during his detentions that he was under no circumstances to ever write down the passwort again (Which Neville probaly didn’t intend to by the way he acted and reacted in the scene!). But at the end of the day she clearly didn’t enjoy what she was doing! McGonagally abusively and directly attacking Neville’s character: " Other members of the staff seemed oddly tense too. “Longbottom, kindly do not reveal that you can’t even perform a simple Switching Spell in front of anyone from Durmstrang!” Professor McGonagall barked at the end of one particularly difficult lesson, during which Neville had accidentally transplanted his own ears onto a cactus. " Again we see: 1.McGonagall was in a heightened emotional state "seemed oddly tense too", due to the stress of the impending visit from Durmstarng and Beauxbatons. And we also learn that this insult was one of the worst that had happened in class so far. Because, if it had been normal for McGonagall to insult Neville as directly and heavily as in this scene, the scene wouldn’t be a prove that she "seemed oddly tense too". 2. Though her comment was abusive and hurtful it was clearly aimed at Neville no making a mistake in the future (reavealing his inability to perform a certain spell) And while her comment was hurtful (and therefore abusive) it didn’t threaten his or anyone elses well being but was just meant to shame him; which is of course still horrible as well! Again the text supports the conclusion that she didn’t do this because she liked it, because it says she "barked" (showing that she’s angry) and not she "sneered" or she "gloated" (showing that she’s intentionally condescending and potentially enjoys it). Again: Is her reaction right? No. She should have either discussed this clamly and in private after the class or even better not have mentioned it at all, since anyone that understands Neville at least a little will know that he won’t go off and try to show the Durmstangs/ Beauxbatons spells that he isn’t 100% certain he can perform correctly (because he’d unnecesarily and willingly embarasse himself…which would make no sense for him) Snape threatening to make Trevor drink Neville’s potion: "His potion, which was supposed to be a bright, acid green, had turned — “Orange, Longbottom,” said Snape, ladling some up and allowing to splash back into the cauldron, so that everyone could see. “Orange. Tell me, boy, does anything penetrate that thick skull of yours? Didn’t you hear me say, quite clearly, that only one cat spleen was needed? Didn’t I state plainly that a dash of leech juice would suffice? What do I have to do to make you understand, Longbottom?” Neville was pink and trembling. He looked as though he was on the verge of tears. “Please, sir,” said Hermione, “please, I could help Neville put it right —” “I don’t remember asking you to show off, Miss Granger,” said Snape coldly, and Hermione went as pink as Neville. “Longbottom, at the end of this lesson we will feed a few drops of this potion to your toad and see what happens. Perhaps that will encourage you to do it properly.” Snape moved away, leaving Neville breathless with fear. “Help me!” he moaned to Hermione. " " The Gryffindors watched fearfully. The Slytherins looked excited. Snape picked up Trevor the toad in his left hand and dipped a small spoon into Neville’s potion, which was now green. He trickled a few drops down Trevor’s throat. There was a moment of hushed silence, in which Trevor gulped; then there was a small pop, and Trevor the tadpole was wriggling in Snape’s palm. The Gryffindors burst into applause. Snape, looking sour, pulled a small bottle from the pocket of his robe, poured a few drops on top of Trevor, and he reappeared suddenly, fully grown. “Five points from Gryffindor,” said Snape, which wiped the smiles from every face. “I told you not to help him, Miss Granger. Class dismissed.” " Here we see: 1. Snape was not in a heightened state of mind when he treathened Neville. There were no factors around the situation that would show that Snape was more agitated than usual and he never acted like there was any danger the potion Neville was brewing was goint to hurt someone (as they clearly wouldn’t have been supposed to drink any of their potions before they were tested). He only started to threaten Neville because he’s anoyed and frustrated that he didn’t do the potion right. 2. His punishment could be argued to be oriented on the goal of him not repeating the same mistake (If his toad gets harmed by his faulty potion, he’ll make it right the next time). However there are three main reasons why this isn’t actually the case: a) Other than with McGonagall in the previous example, Snape wasn’t asking Neville something that he’ll easily be able to do (don’t tell anyone) but is asking him something that would be nearly impossible to pull off for most students (to suddenly and drastically improve in his class). b) Other than McGonagall he was threatening with potential consequences (to his loved one), if he fails to do fulfill his demand. McGonagall gave no threat in her abusive comment, meaning that Neville didn’t have to be afraid of immediate and looming consequences if he didn’t do what she demanded of him. c) Other than McGonagall, he reacted in a manner that is wildly/ clearly out of proportion to Nevilles original mistake. McGonagall shamed him for fucking up a spell. This is abusive and not somthing a teacher is supposed to do. But Snape threatens (and actually tries) to harm Trevor for fucking up a potion, which is clearly way more out of proportion. All three points indicate that his abusive demeanor was not directed at improving the situation but at Neville feeling bad/ afraid. If Snape had wanted to prevent the same mistake from happening again he could, for instance, have threatened Neville with detentions in which he would have to brew the potion again (potentially until he got it right). Or he could have actually let Hermione show him how it’s done properly - since it was clearly not an exam situation because Hermione wouldn’t have offered help (at least not before the threat) if they were in any kind of exam - so Neville would have actually learnt it within the class itself. Again the text supports the fact that Snape was emotionally invested in the abusive situation as he went through with his threat and was "looking sour" (= dissapointed) when the potion worked instead of being "reliefed" or "apreciative of Neville’s improvements on the potion" Snape reading aloud from the magazine: " “Fascinating though your social life undoubtedly is, Miss Granger,” said an icy voice right behind them, and all three of them jumped, “I must ask you not to discuss it in my class. Ten points from Gryffindor.” Snape had glided over to their desk while they were talking. The whole class was now looking around at them; Malfoy took the opportunity to flash POTTER STINKS across the dungeon at Harry. “Ah . . . reading magazines under the table as well?” Snape added, snatching up the copy of Witch Weekly. “A further ten points from Gryffindor . . . oh but of course . . .” Snape’s black eyes glittered as they fell on Rita Skeeter’s article. “Potter has to keep up with his press cuttings. . The dungeon rang with the Slytherins’ laughter, and an unpleasant smile curled Snape’s thin mouth. To Harry’s fury, he began to read the article aloud. “ ‘Harry Potter’s Secret Heartache . . . dear, dear, Potter, what’s ailing you now? ‘A boy like no other, perhaps . . .’ ” Harry could feel his face burning. Snape was pausing at the end of every sentence to allow the Slytherins a hearty laugh. The article sounded ten times worse when read by Snape. Even Hermione was blushing scarlet now. " Again we see: 1. Snape was not in a heightened emotional state but just anoyed that Harry and Hermione were not paying attention. Which in and of itslef was a fair feeling to have, but didn’t justify and was out of proportions to the actions he then took. 2. They weren’t supposed to read magazines in class so they lost points (punishment for breaking of an established rule) and the magazine was taken away (preventing the action from happening again), so this far Snape was well within his rights as a teacher, had not been abusive at all and would have dealt with the problem in an appropriate manner. But reading out of the magazine, with the sole purpose of embarassing Harry and Hermione (the text explicitly shows that he’s taking pauses to let the Slytherins have their laughs) was not only higly abusive (it is nothing less than bullying students in front of the entire class) but also showed that he was doing it for his own gratification. This asumption is again further supported by the text wich clearly indicates that Snape was invested and enjoying himself: "Snape’s black eyes glittered" (not "he looked desinterested or questioning at the article"), "unpleasant smile curled Snape’s thin mouth" (not "he remained impassive or frowned at the magazine"). Oh and don’t think I didn’t notcie that Malfoy waited for Snape to look at Harry in order to flash the Potter Stinks badge. As said in my previous comment I don’t think Snape is totally averse to punishing Slytherins and that they can do whatever they wan’t in his class. I’m simply saying that he allows them to indulge in behaviours (laughing, sniggering etc.) or in this case even engourages them (by leaving pasues for laughter) that he doesn’t with the Gryffindors. So his biases within the classroom are not as obvious as: "He takes 10 point from Gryffindor in one sentence and gives 20 points in the next" or "He never punishes Slytherins for bad behaviour" But more subtle and along the lines of: "He shows a readines to ttake points from Gryffindors, more so than from Slytherins" or "He’ll humour the Slytherins misbehaving in his classroom when he feels like it (e.g. when he’s reading the magazine or when he’s making "wasphish remarks" towards Gryfindors) but not when it would disturb his lessons without his consent (e.g. Malfoy doesn’t know wheter Snape is in the mood to tolerate him flashing the button, so he plays it save…..or there is even the possibility that Snape would never stand for this kind of substantial and physically seizable misbehaviour and will only overlook occasional sniggers or snide remarks)" And lastly, to clearly show what the difference is, that I was talking about all the time, I’ll also give you an example, where Snape’s abusivness wasn’t self-satisfied and actually goal orineted like McGonagalls outbursts at Neville were: Snape insulting Hermione in the shrieking shed: " “Give me a reason,” he whispered. “Give me a reason to do it, and I swear I will.” Black stopped dead. It would have been impossible to say which face showed more hatred. Harry stood there, paralyzed, not knowing what to do or whom to believe. He glanced around at Ron and Hermione. Ron looked just as confused as he did, still fighting to keep hold on the struggling Scabbers. Hermione, however, took an uncertain step toward Snape and said, in a very breathless voice, “Professor Snape — it wouldn’t hurt to hear what they’ve got to say, w-would it?” Miss Granger, you are already facing suspension from this school,” Snape spat. “You, Potter, and Weasley are out-of-bounds, in the company of a convicted murderer and a werewolf. For once in your life, hold your tongue.” “But if — if there was a mistake —” “KEEP QUIET, YOU STUPID GIRL!” Snape shouted, looking suddenly quite deranged. “DON’T TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND!” A few sparks shot out of the end of his wand, which was still pointed at Black’s face. Hermione fell silent. " Here we clearly see: 1. Snape was in a heightened state when the abusive comments towards Hermione started. He has just been brought face to face with his childhood tormentors, which certainly has brought up a lot of unresolved feelings (e.g. hate, and resentment, but potentially also involuntary feelings of inferiority and smallness, leading to more resentment). So it makes sense that he would be more inclined to resort to abusive demeanors in this situation. 2. His abusive comments were directly aimed at preventing a mistake from hapening again. In his eyes Lupin and Sirius were mischievously trying to trick the trio into trusting them in order to hurt (like they hurt him in the past) or outright murder them. So he got abusive and harsh in an attempt to prevent this. I’m sure you’ll furthermore notice that he fullfilled the three conditions I previously set to show why McGonagalls abuse wasn’t self centered, but goal oriented: a) He asked Hermione to doe something she can easily do (to shut up). b) He didn’t threaten her with consequences if she didn’t do as he said. For instance, it doesn’t say "shut up or I’ll gag you" and he wasn’t even directing his wand at her, but keeping it on what he perceived to be the danger in the room (Sirius). c) His abusive behaviour was not wildly/ clearly out of proportions with the stakes of the situation. In his mind Hermione was about to get murdered due to making the mistake of trusting the wrong people, so yelling at her and insulting her was, whilst still not a good solution, certainly not out of proportion. Of course his demeanor wasn’t the best solution (as it never was in any of the examples I gave for him or McGonagall). He could have tried to be more calm and collected about it. Or he could have tried to understand what Sirius and Lupin were talking about and realize that it might actually mean they were innocent. Meaning that he could have then tied them up and have allowed them to speak to reslove the situation. But would that have been a realistic response? No, not really! Because he was in an immensely heightened state (faced with serious childhood trauma and worried about the savety of his students), which does a lot to explain (but not justify) his abusive demeanor (just as it was explainable but not justyfiable when McGonagall thought one of her students had nearly died and therefore resorted to an abusive and overly harsh mode of punishment). And yes, once again, the text supports the conclusion drawn. Because Snape is only shown furious "Snape spat" and highly agitated/distraught "looking suddendly quite deranged" but never enjoying the situation (no "he gloated", " he sneered", " he smiled" or "his eyes glittered"). The only part were it is hinted at that he might enjoy what he’s doing is when he threatens Sirius – his childhood abuser – and even there what he says and the phrase "he whispered" could be seen as either sneering/ hopefull (like it was portrayed in the movie) or just cold, business-like and threatening. So I hope these 5 examples helped to illustrate what (in most but not all cases!)– in my opinion – in most (but not all cases!) the tonal and textual differences between Snape’s and McGonagall’s abusive behaviours are. And yeah, if all of Snape’s abusive scenes would have the tonal and textual context of the last example I gave for him I would have no reason to assume that his underlying motivations were different than McGonagall’s. And I couldn’t argue either that he’s a less decent person/ teacher or even that his abuse is more problematic/ worse than McGonagall’s. But the fact is, that they simply do – for the most part - not have the same tonal and textual context than McGonagall’s scenes.

Hilary Rose

Cutting the scenes with Peeves and the ghosts is one of my least favorite things the movie did. I completely understand that they had to remove or trim down characters for the sake of CGI and that some of the scenes were extraneous plot-wise, but it’s part of what makes Hogwarts lose some of its flavor for me. In the movies, Hogwarts is a beautiful, awe-inspiring, and sometimes dangerous school, but in the books, Hogwarts is an extremely chaotic and magical place that Harry views as a home first, and a school second. I think the movies did a fine job and did the best they could, but they couldn’t quite capture the magical essence Hogwarts has in the books. I’d love to see an animated version one day!

Hawwah

Wow, that's a LONG response. It's obvious you put a lot of time and effort into it and I really apppreciate that. Even though you don't like Severus - or don't like him very much - you try to be fair to him and to build your arguments on the canonical text instead of repeating a few catchphrases. That's not that common and I really, really appreciate that. It will take me some time to carefully read through your response and to make up my own. But I promise I'll get to it. One suggestion, would you mind moving our discussion to Quora? The discussions on that site are more organized and easier to follow in my opinion. Also, Veggie is going to close this thread in a few days. You can register on Quora for free. My Quora profile is here: https://www.quora.com/profile/Hawwah-2 (I know, there's not much content yet.) We can continue our discussion in this thread: https://www.quora.com/Did-Snape-bully-Neville-because-of-his-parents/answer/Hawwah-2

Hawwah

That is a very good point, Kattie! Slytherin considered muggleborn wizards untrustworthy, not inferior. Big difference!

Diego Zenhäusern

Yeah, the response got pretty out of hand🙈 I mean sure, we can try and move this to Quora🙂 And I wouldn't say I don't like Snape, he's a fascinating and complex character! I just don't like to overlook the nasty things he did in favor of the good things he did, just as I don't like to overlook the good things he did in favor of the nasty ones🙂

Annette Elliott

The things I love most in these chapters that the movies left out or changed are Professor Bins explaining the Chamber of Secrets not McGonagall. The whole thing about the trio attending Nick's Death Day party because Nick saved Harry from Filch and the whole explanation about Filch being a squib. Best of all is how easy it was to get Lockhart to sign the request for the potions book they needed from the Restricted Section by playing on his ego.

Kattie Martin

I'm not sure if it would be racist so much as classist (I'm not sure if that's even the correct term). Muggles and wizards/witches are still generally human and cross multiple cultures/races. Either way, mass murderer is definitely not the answer. Also, Hawwah gets bonus points for spelling my name correctly. Autocorrect tends to drop the second t.

Hawwah

Again this double standard. Snape is horrible, Filch is horrible, but Harry can do no wrong? Sure.

Katie

Harry is a child whereas Snape and Filch are fully grown men. It's completely different.

Hawwah

Snape is evil because he wants his students to pay attention in class, follow instructions and not injure anyone with exploding cauldrons. Got you. Filch is horrible because he doesn't want Harry to bring mud into the castle - mud he himself has to clean manually while he's sick with flu. The nerve of it! Harry can do whatever he wants and Filch should be grateful that he can clean after him. Did I get it right?

Katie

Hawwah it's ok that you have different opinions of the characters to me. I don't have the energy to go back and forth with explanations/examples as to why I think of the characters differently to you. We read the same books but you clearly have very different opinions of the characters in them. Let's just agree to disagree? 🙂👍

CD

Fiur

It is a missed opportunity that Peeves was cut from the movies. He is such an interesting and funny character and such an important part of Hogwarts itself. I'm so glad he will be in Hogwarts Legacy. Keep up the great work Veggie and no worries for taking your time. This whole project is worth the wait. Greetings from Germany :)

Thunderbird

@Diego YES, THANK YOU for saying it! I agree that Snape is a hero and in the end fighted for Harry's side. BUT, he only did it because Voldemort killed Lily! If Voldemort went for Neville instead of Harry, Snape would still be his faithful follower!!! Also he still is a horrible person.

Thunderbird

What I like especially in those scenes is Lockhart’s character (including his teaching methods) and how they get the potion book. It makes sense that this book wouldn’t just be available to every student. Also we learn how to get a book in the restricted section. I love that they trick Lockhart into signing the permission and that Hermione wants to keep his signature. I would have loved to see those things in the movies. :D I also love these little bits of side information we get, like that there are rumours about dancing skelettons, why Ron is afraid of spiders (Fred turned his Teddybear into one) and what Harry’s defeat of Voldemort meant to the house-elfs. It adds so much to the Harry Potter-universe!

Hillwilly70

I can't wait for your thoughts on the death day party.

Jacqueline Chaiton

All I will say in response to this thread is that abuse is not always physical. I love Snape as a character but as a person he is absolutely horrible. He was abused and bullied as a child and felt no need to break the cycle when he became an adult, he used his position to do the same to others as he had done to him. James grew up, he matured, he realized what he did was wrong and stopped that behaviour. Snape never did.

Jacqueline Chaiton

Harry does this constantly throughout the series, it's not just when he's 12. Take HBP for example. That whole book is Harry and his saviour complex sticking his nose in other people's business. Yes he was ultimately right about Malfoy, but it wasn't his place to do what he did. He should have just told Dumbledore and left it at that.

Jacqueline Chaiton

Yeah it makes sense that they cut it because of how they introduced Myrtle in the films, as well as how they showed Mrs Norris being petrified. Those, I think, are the main reasons that chapter is in the book.

Hawwah

@Jacqueline Facts.

Josh Z

Fred and George blaming Oliver for Harry's stubbornness to catch the snitch while being chased by the rouge bludger is hilarious.

Katie

@Jacqueline I mentioned 12 because that's the book and circumstances we're discussing above. I agree he acts this way throughout the whole series but he's still a child throughout the whole series. I totally agree he's nosey and that's part of what drives the plot

Hawwah

15 and older isn't a child anymore.

Jacqueline Chaiton

100%, and TBH after everything that happens at the end of GOF Harry really isn't a kid anymore.

Garry (Not Jerry)

“The question is not who, but how” - I totally only just got this line when reading this time around but you’re absolutely right. Dumbledore knows it’s Tom riddle - as he did last time - but he doesn’t know how.