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Regarding the Book Club Comments Section! (Patreon)

Published:
2023-01-10 19:52:06
Edited:
2023-01-10 19:55:25
Imported:
2026-08

Content

Hi guys! Veggie Gamer here! XD 

I'll make a short video on here, but I just wanted to say thank you all for your passion and input in these comments sections.  I do however need to ask that you PLEASE be friendly and respectful to each other.  Just because you see a comment you disagree with, doesn't mean you need to try and dismantle it.

Frankly, I love people feeling free and safe to give their differing takes on everything in these books and it is always a joy to read!

When it comes to MY opinions I give in the videos, I welcome all the critique you can give me!! But when you are taking away from other people's enjoyment of making their own comments and airing their own opinions in these sections, that is when it becomes a problem.  Sadly, I have received a couple of messages from people saying they really enjoy this series, but are starting to lose confidence that if they make a comment, they are safe from receiving aggressive replies and they are worried they are starting arguments.  

So please, when you see a comment that may have a different opinion from your own, think twice if it is really worth challenging it, and if you do, think THRICE how polite and friendly your reply is.  The worst thing in the world for me is people enjoying these videos, but because they are worried about backlash, they choose not to make a comment. 

The comments you guys make genuinely get me through a lot of very sad times. Like I say, feel free you rip my opinions apart in the book clubs!! But please, please don't do the same to others who are commenting their own opinions.

Files

Comments

Michelle Linardis

Thank you for calling this out, Veggie ❤️ It really is disheartening to post something, only to get attacked by others with torches and pitchforks.

Katie

Thanks Veggie 🙂 I felt I had to stop commenting awhile back for this reason. I can't even read through the comments anymore without feeling anxious. I hope things get back to how they used to be.

Nix001

Yup, a hundred points to Hufflepuff for taking a stand!

Kattie Martin

I noticed a bit of hostility in the replies and avoided the topic as a result but I'm glad you became aware of it. I hope it hasn't upset you too much.

.

Thank you so much Veggie! I've also felt a bit of hostility in the comments, which sort of drove me away from participating. I understand people are passionate, but respecting others is always important, even in disagreement. Looking forward to the next chapters ^^

The Ginger Historian

If the disagreement is about the situations in the book, I agree with this 100%. If the disagreement is about the validity of certain human beings (of which community I am a member), it will be very difficult not to speak up. My apologies if I caused anyone to feel anxious. I was feeling very unsafe myself.

VeggieGamer

Hi Tommy. I think I saw the thing you are referring to in the comments and I can guarantee this is not about that at all! Things really came to a head in this previous Book Club regarding Snape, Neville and other things in the chapters. I am very sorry that you would feel unsafe here, as it is 100% on me to make everyone feel welcome to this community. Like I say I plan on putting a video together regarding it and will be asking for ways I can make things better from you guys. So any feedback on that will be greatly appreciated. I would never want you to not feel as welcome as anyone else here.

The Ginger Historian

Thank you so much for clarifying. This fandom (like many others) can get heated about many things, so I wasn’t sure if it was about that. I feel a lot better now.

Jake M

I'm glad you've said this, I was a little worried after reading some of the comments in the last book club... We all need to remember, it's a work of fiction open to interpretation and we shouldn't attack each other for having different views. Absolutely lovely this aspect of your videos Veggie and would hate to see it end because we weren't able to keep things civil! Or should I say Sybill? 😂

Jake M

TROLL! IN THE COMMENTS! Thought you ought to know...

Giorgia M

Yeah, it has become a bit intimidating to comment regarding certain topics. Honestly, I didn’t really want to mention it and then ruin your favourite part of the videos! That felt unfair too. I’m sure we can get things back to a more open place!!

Diego Zenhäusern

Yeah, you're right Veggie. There really is no point in arguing about opinions (especially on characters) since neither side will convince the other (as I've seen in all my discussions). I don't know if I've been someone that made people uncomfortable (I certainly don't hope so 😕 and I apologize if I have!) but I know that I was a few times at the very least on the verge of getting unpleasant in my discussions😕... So I think it will actually also add to my own enjoyment of these comment sections, if I desist from those kinds of discussion in the future.🤔 Thanks for reminding me that there is also the option to coexist instead of challenge🙂...I think I really needed it.😕

itsanursething

Tommy I’m so sorry someone made you feel unsafe. That’s not ok. I just want to say that I support you and you are loved!

itsanursething

I know I can get passionate and I apologize if I came across aggressive to anyone. Please, if this ever happens, call me out on it! I may not be aware that I’m doing it. I am always open to learning and growing as a person. I love this series and this fandom and I would feel terrible if I made anyone feel uncomfortable. We are all entitled to our opinions and biases about the story and the characters. I know it clouds my view in some areas! It’s ok to agree to disagree and also for characters to be more than just one thing 😊

Jake M

I think disagreeing viewpoints makes for a healthy debate! If we all interpreted things the same way, there would be no need for discussion. It's when insults and shutting people down and such get added that it becomes detrimental.

Jake M

I think both sides had their share of pointy weapons, to be fair. Felt like every mention of Neville or Snape in comments turned into the same arguments. Worse than hearing Celestina Warbeck on repeat (which I look forward to Veggie hearing Jim Dale 'sing' in a few books' time XD)

Koala

You're a legend and a saint Mr. Veggie

Hilary Rose

I’m sorry you’ve felt unsafe! I just want to add to the voices on here that support you, too 💜

Rebecca May

@Jake M - Michelle, Katik and I were having a lovely discussion about Snape that is entirely devoid of pointy weapons... That being said, I know the discussions to which you are referring and they were very disheartening.

Rebecca May

I'm so sorry if this has been upsetting for you Veggie, and thank you for speaking out! I have to say, I've definitely stayed out of certain discussion threads recently where I may have had something valuable to contribute, simply because the tone on one or both sides was far too aggressive for my liking. But it's not all bad! I've had some very friendly, kind and constructive discussions with many members of this group that have actually meant a lot to me. ♥ I think the most important thing (at least for me) to bear in mind is that the point of these discussions should never be to argue, but to come to a better understanding of another person's point of view. If you can reach an agreement, then great, but convincing someone you're 100% correct in your views should never be the be all and end all. Finally, just to echo what itsadancething has also said, I know I can get very passionate about these Harry Potter discussions. I always try my very hardest to be respectful and constructive, and never to come off as aggressive or to make anyone feel uncomfortable - if I ever fail in this, please, call me out! I hate to think of anyone feeling unwelcome in this fandom.

Frederique Gillespie

Hey Veg. So, I've been a moderator of a political discussion page/thread for 10+ years now. It's not what I do for a living, but it's part of my experience. From that experience, what I wanted to say is that you're doing great. Thanks for looking out for the community. You're awesome.

Rebecca May

I'm so sorry you've been made to feel this way, Tommy... Joining the other two in saying I support you and I hope you can always feel loved and supported within this group in future ♥

Michelle Linardis

True to an extent, but considering the clear amount of Snape critics who watch Veggies videos, I feel like it is the handful of Snape fans who get swamped merely for correcting common misconceptions. And I know you hate Snape, because you've been calling Snape fans 'Apologists', which is the usual way you lot like to start trouble. And accusing the other side of having their pointy weapons when you've been accusing them as such, is a bit hypocritical since the reason we get defensive is because of people like you who make being a fan of a fictional character a hostile world to be in. And Rebecca is correct - we were having a very nice, civil conversation.

Rebecca May

@Michelle To be fair to Jake, there are a few Snape fans out there who are at least partly responsible for giving the rest of us a bad name, who can be extremely aggressive or who may fall somewhere under the apologist umbrella. It's a little unfair to tar us all with the same brush and I do dislike the 'apologist' term, but it's not always meant as an attack. :) (I've felt the same impulse towards defensiveness, but sometimes it isn't warranted and becomes part of a vicious cycle.) Anyway, I just thought the conversation between Katik, you and I was a good example of a time when all three of us didn't agree on *every* point around Snape, but we seemed to reach some common ground through a very thoughtful, kind and civil discussion. It's that kind of discussion that I live for. ♥

Michelle Linardis

@Rebecca May - Personally (and i've touch upon this in a previous comment of mine) that often terms get thrown around without knowing the meaning of. 'Apologist' being one of them. We are often accused as such when we are merely explaining his reasons (which as you know, is not the same as 'excusing' him). The term 'apologist' is widely used to insult the fans and to devalue our rebuttal, without even considering our points. We are labelled something ridiculous, and accused of being some thing we are not. Jake here has called Snape fans 'apologists', so it immediately leaves me feeling like already threads like these can be an unsafe space for Snape fans.

Rebecca May

@Michelle - I completely understand, and I'm sure you can tell from our prior discussions that I feel precisely the same. :) I also dislike the term and I'm always very careful how I express myself on issues concerning Snape to avoid being attacked... I just really try to give people the benefit of the doubt and believe that they are using such terms thoughtlessly rather than maliciously, until proven otherwise. Hopefully I'm making some sense here! :)

Michelle Linardis

In my experience, when someone calls a fan an apologist, they become hostile. I can't give them the benefit of the doubt or any leeway when I know full well they do it to incite an argument. Snape fans just want to be able to clear up the usual misconceptions, without being attacked by a mob. I mean, there are HP characters I loathe, but I don't go to their fans and whine about how bad (with exaggeration) the character is, when not even half of that is warranted. People should be able to like who they like in peace and without the risk of being attacked. Unecessary hate for a fictional character is, in my opinion, immature, especially when they don't understand the context or misread the text (such as accusing Snape of wanting to kill/poison Trevor - because that is not actually true). We simply respond to clear up those points, and yet only the Snape fans are attacked. It's disheartening.

Rebecca May

It is quite disheartening, and I really hope I didn't sound like I was minimizing the hurt from such experiences, especially as I have first hand experience of these things as well. I just wanted to explain my own approach in the hope that it would somehow be helpful in this context. :)

Michelle Linardis

Oh gosh, no. You're a lovely one, and it's nice to know there are kind people here dispite the hate that gets thrown around. And it makes me wonder how many Snape fans here who are worried to post anything for fear of being attacked. It's not fair to be able to hold back on reiterating and saying positive things about Snape (or really explaining his actions), when the hateful majority are vocal. Hate is tiresome, so I don't understand why people become obssessed with that. Liking who you like and expressing your thoughts thought should not be made to feel demonised.

Rebecca May

I'm so glad I haven't offended! I've enjoyed being able to discuss things with you over the past couple of days, it's been lovely. :)

Michelle Linardis

Me too! ❤️ it far outweighs the hate seen here.

Florian

This is, and always will be a difficult topic. Fans are fans because they care about these characters. Of course I wish those discussions to be civil, but I do understand the heat as well. Especially when it comes to polarizing characters like Snape. Snape is a great character with a lot of flaws, but ultimatley very brave for the way he is dealing with his past. Both sides have their points, but even I have to facepalm if someone argues that Snape is unbiased when it comes to students. Playing favourites is just something you should not do to such an extreme. It is sad that people feel unsafe to comment, I thought the comment section had a normal amount of heated arguments. I've seen far worse in most anime communitys.

Jake M

I don't recall calling Snape fans apologists at all, sorry. (Incidentally, apologist just means defender, I thought? it's not intrinsically a bad thing, and I wouldn't mean it disparagingly). I am not a Snape-lover hater. I'm firmly on the fence, it's extremely painful on my backside. Sorry if you think you're targeted but I do not count myself among a Snape-hating group, I have my own views and i don't like forcing them on other people.

Jake M

I've just gone through every comment I've left here, and the only time I could find that I used the word 'apologist' before was "I'm not a Neville apologist, but I think saying he willfully endangers his peers is unfair". I do not mean 'apologist' as anything horrible, I just mean 'defender'. What you seem to have done is generalise me as a Snape hater, which is exactly what you said you hate people doing with Snape lovers. So please don't besmirch my pun-giving name when I've largely stayed out of these debates XD (Incidentally, my least favourite character is Harry, as I think he's a ****head to friends and foes alike.) I'd be horrified to learn if I ever offended someone, so apologies if this is the case. I was merely trying to point out that both sides were guilty of going a bit too far.

Michelle Linardis

False. You called Snape fans apologists in the recent book club in a conversation with Annette. Yes, it's you. I clarified it several times before I mentioned it.

Michelle Linardis

Snape hater isn't an insult. Accusing someone of being an apologist is. I've seen you bash Snape in your comments. That's my observation, not a generalisation.

Jake M

I've found the comment you refer to, I missed that one apologies, but I meant no ill will when I said "I wonder how many Snape apologists started with Rickman". It was a genuine query, as his portrayal is far more likeable than book Snape. Again, 'apologist' just means defender, in my eyes. I said I *disliked* Snape, not hated him. The generalisation comes from calling me a Snape hater, which I do not consider myself . Honestly, your "nice try, though" in that comment comes across as aggressive, and it's exactly the sort of thing that should be avoided in the book club. I already said I was sorry if I offended anybody, whereas you seem to be wanting to fight back against everyone who even tries to disagree with you. A healthy discussion needs give and take between everyone, not just amongst people who share the same overarching opinions. That's why I didn't appreciate one person jumping on every single comment about Neville with the same argument, trying to disprove them. That's the sort of thing I was referring to in my original comment about both sides being at fault. Whereas you seem to think I have it out for all Snape fans, and are being short with me accordingly. Which simply isn't true. So please don't be so quick to judge.

Michelle Linardis

'Apologist' is used to insult and demean Snape fans when they try and defend points that have been stated as incorrect. You obviously haven't been around the HP side of social media to understand the weight of that. And yet here you are, responding to my comments over multiple threads, and trying to demean my points. Why? I don't come for your anti-Snape posts and do the same as you are doing. I don't know why people can't just leave Snape fans to have their say without being mobbed by hate-posts. Also talk about generalisation into assuming Snape fans like Snape for Rickman. That is so far from the truth. 90% of Snape fans liked him before Rickman. Such an absurd accusation.

Jake M

I have avoided HP Social media for this very reason, in case my words get misconstrued. I also don't make 'anti-Snape' posts, I rarely even talk about him. I already said I, personally, meant no ill will by my use of 'apologist', I did not know the connotations you speak of. I've also apologised multiple times. You seem to want to vilify all Snape-haters (which, again, I am not one of), whereas my point was that people on both sides have been overly aggressive and tactless about other people's opinions- I wasn't even referring to you in my initial comment, as Rebecca said there were others in the comments . Snape-lovers are not the only innocent victims, and Snape haters are not the only ones at fault. And I didn't generalise that, I said I WONDER how many, because i do not know the answer. Generalising would be saying 'all Snape lovers saw Rickman first'. You clearly want to win every argument though so fine, I give up, I'm a bad guy for trying to highlight that both sides were guilty, and you're in the right.

Michelle Linardis

I don't vilify Snape haters - I just find it appauling when people who don't like Snape, have to harass Snape fans with their weird hatred for a fictional character. Snape fans can't ever have their say without being mobbed. As I Snape fan, I have both seen from others and myself endured death/r*ape threats, being told to go kill ourselves, stalk us in DMs, harass and abuse us, accuse us of being abuse/Nazi apologists/Nazi supporters. vandalise (I know a Snape fan who had her car keyed), and the list go on. You assume it's equal on both sides? I beg to differ. Snaters do not endure what we have to. I don't know why you are choosing to be childish about it - you started commented on many of mine. So please, do me a favor, and stop harassing me.

Jake M

I'm not harassing you, I have not insulted you in any way, i did not even say that each side was equal, I just said there were people on both sides that are guilty. Almost all of my comments to you said "please" or "sorry", I made an effort to be respectful. Please, stop this character assassination, putting words and thoughts in my mouth that I never said, and twisting those I did say into something I did not mean.

Michelle Linardis

You know, I never once had an issue with you personally, but I just can't fathom these double-standards. You call Snape fans apologist, assume we like the character only for Rickman, make us out to be the villains when all we do is correct common misconceptions with the character, and word your posts as if it's us who is the issue. We're not the side creating hate posts for a fictional character and exaggerate every morsel of his flaws as if he's a 2D Disney villain. It's just so ridiuclous. Let us have our opinion and leave us in peace. All we want to do is enjoy Veggie's video without the ugly side of the fandom. Instead we have Snape critics who post bashing posts and get mad when the Snape fans post to correct them. Again, just let it go. Nowhere on social media is safe for a Snape fan, and that I know you will never understand.

VeggieGamer

Hi guys. Can we please stop this back and forth, please? I am so sorry this has escalated to this point (it's because I don't monitor the Book Club posts until after reading), so I don't know what is brewing up. I would really recommend that if you disagree with someone's opinion, or don't like a reply that you get to one, do your best to ignore it. I WISH there was something better I can do to police this as it is my responsibility to keep things friendly and somewhere people can give their honest opinions, and I am currently pulling my hair out trying to work out what exactly it is I can do.

Kunzite Blossom

Different viewpoints are what makes the world. Similar to what Jake said, we are MEANT to interpret things differently. No 2 people are 100% alike. If we all thought the same and all looked the same the world would just be boring. Think to those dystopian society books like Fahrenheit 451 (if you ever read it). It would just be a sad world to live in. I actually enjoyed most of the healthy debates in the comment sections but there was a good 1-2 people who did make it worse by commenting on every thing trying to tell people why they are wrong and basically negate everything a person says. Which made it frustrating. It's just best to agree to disagree and move on. Hopefully this will be the last of the Snape controversy and things can go back to just pure lighthearted fun.

Michelle Linardis

Thank you Veggie. I would block if I could, as all I want to do is enjoy your videos and express my love for a character. I just feel like Snape fans are constantly attacked, and it really saddens me to know Patreon isn't a safe space for us either.

itsanursething

I totally agree with both of you! Debating or discussing our different viewpoints is great! What I meant was, at a certain point, sometimes you just have to step back and say “we’re not going to agree on this and that’s ok.” We can’t let ourselves get to the point of dismissing other peoples’ thoughts and ideas because that’s not what this is about. I’ve already seen so many things in these stories in a whole new light and I’m loving it! 😊

VeggieGamer

I want it to be a safe place for everyone, Michelle. Of any opinion of Snape or anything else for that matter. I can't do that though if people are willing to engage with comments and replies in an unsafe way though. I may have to make the Book Club an email address, which will cut out any discussion between people at all, but that will require a lot more work for me and I don't believe that is what the majority of people on here want either. So I would ask everyone to please try to be friendly and to not engage with people that disagree or are replying rudely. This post was about exactly that. It was about not allowing this very sort of thingto happen. It has turned into a 25 comment long war. Even I have to see the beautiful irony there. XD This tbh is causing me a lot of stress right now, so I would ask that people on both sides of the argument to please let it go. I will try and make it so this won't happen again, but I need everyone to HELP me do that, weather you love or hate Snape.

Jake M

Apologies Veggie, I did not mean to cause such a fuss and I'm sorry Michelle feels that way about me when it was not my intention to make her feel victimised, I was trying to be a diplomatic fence-sitter pointing out both sides got a little heated, and I failed miserably! In time I hope we can be friendly again, as we both make very interesting comments, in my not-so-humble opinion.

Jake M

I agree entirely with both of you. I've read 1984 which has similar vibes but haven't read Fahrenheit 451, maybe that should be the next book club? XD

Dara Jeeling

@Rebecca May IF anything I say ever makes you feel bad - just shoot me a comment! I do nit really wish to make anyone uncomfrtable - but I know I am very biased in my oppinions on a lot of characters!

Dara Jeeling

I still think it is sort of "moderate" here with hte discussions. I tend not to comment on thigs on you tube (and in other forum groups). I already had my faire share of hate comments for having "unpopular" views on some characters. Like I really like how Umbridge comes in (as a really sadistic character). Do not get me wrong, I do not like Umbridge - I just think she is an extremely well written character. I sort of tend to defend Snape, since I loved his book version (and yes, I read the books before the films came out - like 3 to that time) and even during the first book I was sure he is just written so obvious villain that he could not be the bad one (and I was already 17 when I read the first book - so maybe I read them in a differnet way then 12 year olds did) The worst thing I ever got told, that I should get my head out of my a.... and drool over Snapey-Poo (and Alan Rickman) since he is a bad person. (the Snapey-Poo stuck with me!) As with Umbridge I have always been able to see he is not a pleasant character and has many, many flaws (and no I would not want him to be my teacher if I am in any house than Syltherin, which I luckily am) I am also a huge fan of almost all the teachers and I still think they are not done justice in the books. Also, IF anything I wirte makes someone uncompfrtable - please feel free to contact me, I am a nice person (my brothers would disagree - but yeah)

Jake M

In my opinion Snape and Umbridge are both awful people but amazing characters, if that makes any sense? Totally understand why he has fans, just like any well-written antihero (eg Light from Death Note- dislike him but he's brilliantly written). I struggle to see any redeeming qualities in Umbridge, though..both narrators did a really good job portraying her sickening malevolence in the audiobooks, so whichever version he chooses I'm looking forward to Veggie never being able to hear 'hem, hem' without cringing again XD

Rebecca May

@Dara Jeeling - That's very kind of you, and of course the same to you, if I ever say anything that makes you uncomfortable! If it helps, I've never seen a comment from you that seemed anything other than kind and respectful. :)