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Episode 147: You Are a Serf with Jodi Dean (Patreon)

Published:
2021-03-31 04:30:57
Edited:
2024-03-04 16:28:49
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

We talk to the one and only Jodi Dean about the neofeudal future.

lareviewofbooks.org/article/neofeudalism-the-end-of-capitalism/

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Comments

MLVF

Was brace dared to f bomb every other sentence during this interview with a professor?

Anthony Zaragoza

For the record, I’m a Fraczakian, with Beldenist tendencies…

Hassan Farooq

For a second I got real excited thinking it was Jodi Arias

omar

im in your house right now.

swervegriffin

You are a serf. Bitch, you live in Alsace. You are a peasant. You need to give your fuckin' lord the grain. Your fucking children, you've had 15 children. You've never taken a bath. You've literally never. washed. your. penis. You've never used toilet paper. Motherfucker, you have worms. You are dying. You've had 40 children, 3 of them are alive. 2 of them are child soldiers in the Duke's army. Bitch, the greatest thing you can hope for is to die at the old age of 36. You fucking can't read. You don't know what TV is. If you were transported into today, you would be the worst gamer of all time. You don't know shit. You literally probably don't even know what the direction 'left' is. I'm sure some Medieval guy is gonna get mad at me for this, bitch I've been to the Renaissance Fair. I've eaten a large turkey wing, which the Juggalos call 'bitch beaters', which I think is problematic but a funny thing to call them. Motherfucker, you gotta recognize where you are, and then you gotta get passed that. You gotta be unemotional. You can't sink into this hole. You live in the oubliette. Your job is to crawl up the ladder, motherfucker. You live in the HOLE. You're in the HOLE. You are a RAT. And the rat, when he's in the hole gets fucked. People only throw trash in the hole. You need to eat a body. And you need to carry the plague. And you need to carry a plague around this whole world, that will change this whole fuckin world. And all your enemies will vomit black bile and will choke on blood and will grow boils and die. But only if you get together with your other RATS. And you come up with some kind of super plague, to fuckin end your enemies and... End. This. Nightmare.

Hassan Farooq

Trainspotting monologue but 14th century

Zzz

Damn this is good. Thx guys

MD

re: Liz's point about a fundamental shift in capital accumulation vs the shift to rents being a speculative bubble - I think the thing that seals it for me as a fundamental shift is the rise in *every* city, even without weird Saudi petrodollars being funneled into tech like SF, of real estate rents as the primary form of capital accumulation. We can focus on the flashy stuff like netflix but even Peoria's capitalists are only continuing to make money via "living space as a service"

Jonathan lees

I’ve finished my job for the day. I agree to all this feudal business not cool no where near any cool what so ever

GolfBaller

No one bases their "politics" off your show but your show definitely affects the "politics" (e.g. opinions) of the extremely online.

Monty Tenderson

I know some people who work at the prominent AI/AGI research groups in the bay area and while I totally agree that their fever dreams of robot doctors will never be realized, they 1000% believe that they will and are using their wealth and political influence to start to prepare society for it. Which is terrifying to me. This recent blog by Sam Altman (CEO of OpenAI and former YCombinator CEO or whatever) spells out this vision and his near term political plans. https://moores.samaltman.com/

Pandapple

Dengist over here just vibing.

hongers

i think the term they were looking for was "digital exhaust"

Winternewt

We're in fuckin 1320 motherfucker You are a serf. Bitch, you live in Alsace. You are a peasant. You need to give your fuckin' lord the grain. Your fucking children, you've had 15 children. You've never taken a bath. You've literally never. washed. your. penis. You've never used toilet paper. Motherfucker, you have worms. You are dying. You've had 40 children, 3 of them are alive. 2 of them are child soldiers in the Duke's army. Bitch, the greatest thing you can hope for is to die at the old age of 36. You fucking can't read. You don't know what TV is. If you were transported into today, you would be the worst gamer of all time. You don't know shit. You literally probably don't even know what the direction 'left' is. I'm sure some Medieval guy is gonna get mad at me for this, bitch I've been to the Renaissance Fair. I've eaten a large turkey wing, which the Juggalos call 'bitch beaters', which I think is problematic but a funny thing to call them. Motherfucker, you gotta recognize where you are, and then you gotta get passed that. You gotta be unemotional. You can't sink into this hole. You live in the oubliette. Your job is to crawl up the ladder, motherfucker. You live in the HOLE. You're in the HOLE. You are a RAT. And the rat, when he's in the hole gets fucked. People only throw trash in the hole. You need to eat a body. And you need to carry the plague. And you need to carry a plague around this whole world, that will change this whole fuckin world. And all your enemies will vomit black bile and will choke on blood and will grow boils and die. But only if you get together with your other RATS. And you come up with some kind of super plague, to fuckin end your enemies and... End. This. Nightmare.

TrueAnonPod

Yeah could’ve phrased that better—I think it’s more we (and other shows) contribute to an online milieu where people sort of get their politics. I don’t say that as a disparagement even (though it can be jarring and make me a little guilt ridden). It’s just something I wrestle over; I genuinely believe probably the internet steered a lot of the growing interest in socialist politics but it can be a politics reflective of the internet—not just talking about crude talking left wing podcasts but everything from like the Instagram infographics to the screaming mania of many politicians to the tumblr stuff—and that has a lot of downsides

GolfBaller

Brother, I am picking up what you are throwing down.

Sparrow

if u all like this serious shit, check out Rev Left Radio (and its spinoffs, Red Menace, Guerilla History, Hammer & Camera)

Timothy Dugan

what episode was this from again?

birdigonia

When I was right out of high school I thought Sam Altman was cool but man do these AI creeps scare me

rutjake

The thing about Jewell Watch is that Richard Jewell totally could’ve tied into the previous ep with the Jesus Campos stuff. Brace I’m telling you from my very informed opinion as A Guy Who Just Watched Richard Jewell Last Week, believe the hype.

Dan Greene

Iirc one of the covid eps from last March

Carine

Ok guys- do David Harvey next! Awesome ep

Dan Greene

Down with all kings but King Ludd

Matthew Wood

I’m not sure if Liz meant it as a criticism of the concept but she said it: isn’t Neofeudalism just synecdoche for USA?

skipmur

The "fully automated luxury Communists coming out of England" that Jodi referred to at the end there i.e Aaron Bastani and the Novara Media lot, are all finks mate, no doubt on my mind those freaks are on the MI5 payroll to psy-op the Left into adopting dumb positions. These are the same people who wrote bullshit about "Brexit is too White, so therefore Leftists shouldn't support it" and are now heavily pushing a twitter meme about "Northern independence" and are writing puff pieces about Bill fucking Gates saying how he really "gets" the climate crisis. Their purpose is to make the left look as incompetent and out of touch as possible while pushing propaganda for the satanic tech overlord nonces... Well atleast that's what I tell myself, because the alternative is the Left are legitimately useless and weird out of their own accord, which is a slightly more depressing thought.

notadingdong

jodi dean! hell yeah! this is the content we want and deserve 🥰

online Leftist Archive Project (LARP)

I thought Fully Automated made some good points about how capitalism creates artificial scarcity in an era where solar power / computer code creates easily scalable, replicable wealth. I haven't really engaged with Bastani's oeuvre other than reading this book so maybe there's a lot that I'm missing.

Alexandria Henderson

this episode was amazing. But after critiquing how media is not action or politics, I would love if you guys could do an episode helping to educate your followers with solutions and ways to act. I know this guy Chris newsome in Virginia is trying to collectivize agriculture and is currently feuding with “the most famous farmer in the world” the libertarian Joel Salatin, a darling of companies like Google. You guys always get me so pumped up for revolution it would be great to find some ways we could do it

Gregory Moore

Ok I need to hear this pod about Matthew McConaughey’s audiobook.

BS

"Another podcast..." Just say Cum Town, Brace.

Eddie

Lol was it actually cum town he was referencing?

Baron

Ep 88, 100:30

kyledamon96

This is my favorite podcast since Chapo transitioned, almost exclusively, to black pill movie reviews. I appreciate the class-conciousness!

William Pepper

I don’t know if you’re from Appalachia but the Trillbilly’s don’t miss. I agree I love them chapo boys but they’re some big ole nerds

Jimothy Realname

The only "Grad school" we should be having is one that teaches workers to use the BM-21 multiple rocket launch system

TrueAnonPod

I didn’t want liz to say I was gross for saying that word

Neil Harris

Great episode. Had never heard of Jodi before, thanks for introducing me

Magnus Cain

I wish someone would interview William I. Robinson on the theory of the transnational capitalist class and the global police state. I feel like the neo-gramscian theories of transnational capitalism is some of the most coherent on the more macro-topics touched on here.

Salt M. Bank

I enjoyed the discussion and would love to read or hear some more refutations of the luxury space communism ideal.

Angus Cairnie

Medieval rant at the end is incredible

Chandler

Why isn't the mandalay episode showing up in my feed?

Jimothy Realname

Yeah, I dig it. Our absolute best case scenario for the next century or two is comfortable train communism. Luxury space communism is gonna have to wait a while

luis

All this medieval pop culture shit in recent decades was just propaganda to pre program us into submission to the post capitalist / neo fuedalist world

George P

it's there. are you a subscriber? I think that one was patrons only.

Benjamin Kelly

Hit me with the “If you liked that, you’ll LOVE these!” algorithm I don’t ever want to leave the house

Chandler

I pay one dollar a month do I need to do more?

Bingo Bongo

if you were my lords i would give you 2/3 of my harvest, no questions asked. just take all my hard work, anything, m'lord ✨🌽🌾✨

A S

Counterpoint: "Communism is free time and nothing else." - Jehu

Ed O'Brien

it got me to subscribe to this back when it ran originally. heard that , then the mike judge pod , listened to his stuff , heard matt christmas on his pod, ended up on cushvlog then ended up subscribing to chapo. my girlfriend played me that clip of braces rant - and now i’m deep in the dirt bag left. a real gateway drug

natalie

lol i've never seen 8 mile and my bf rapped the "there goes rabbit" line the other day (jokingly) and I was so confused and needed it explained to me

Isobel Woolner

thanks for adding the serf/plague rat rant at the end, absolute banger

Slartibartfast

Bless Liz getting all tongue tied when talking to someone she admires.

Slartibartfast

Also papa Elon episode or I’ll bust caps in your asses.

Will

This episode should have been called Serfin' USA

rolfesam

god I would love for y’all to talk with mat Dryhurst about new speculative media economies, social spheres, ip, and how a leftist framework fits into that

Vincent Utah

Meanwhile no one I know can buy a house because all of these rich little Cali fuckers moving into the Intermountain West are offering cash upfront and turning most places into rental properties.

Sam

As in it doesn't really exist outside the US?

Sam

They were terrible on the antisemitism smear campaign. They didn't just not stand up against it but they joined in. As the MSM have lurched even further to the right Novara have occupied the space left by the liberal progressive space left behind. Their market is quite consciously rent paying professionals and graduates. This segues to a related point that I want ted to make in which outlets like Novara are the symptom rather than the cause. Jodi mentioned the importance of face to face learning and discussion. In abstraction I agree - however this last year away from activist meetings (the first break I've had in 15 years) due to the pandemic has really allowed me the space to reflect on just the extent of bourgeois domination of left organising. The discourse, the way we speak to each other, is so so weird. It could be described as extremely dysfunctional, but that elides the fact that the discourse is extremely functional for posh, highly educated, careerists. It is I think for two reasons: 1( Its highly specialised and therefore weighted always to the ingroup and the particular people that have mastered the rules of the discourse 2) It is undergirded by a premise that no one can really trust each other. That there are no relations of solidarity and comradeship. Thus the discourse is inherently competitive. The kicker is that the resort to all this exclusive language and rituals are justified on the basis of being inclusive. I've always seen this as a problem, but it took time away, time to retreat to really comprehend the extent of it.

Jack Nancy

As a person who grew up in San Francisco, I feel like we are drifting into the Delany book "Dhalgren"

Jack Nancy

I feel like Brace's outro is just Nico Walker lol

Alexander Cabot

Wow this podcast was really thought provoking. I had to pause and replay parts a few times because I really wanted what was being said to sink in and allow myself to have the thought process in my head complete and take it all in. Thank you for this!

Charlie

“another podcast did an episode on the Matthew McConaughey audiobook” Brace don’t be a pussy tell us you listen to Cumtown!!!

deathofaclown (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-09 19:00 so close. almost there. sorry guys it's gonna be automation. we won't have a different society until technology, and how we implement it, changes. the death of working class movements is the writing on the wall but it's not as bad as you think. it's about where you start. a post labor economy starts with universal energy. mass free electricity makes mass free food and housing makes global chill zone where the only issue is what you do when youre bored. you think you can build a social movement that changes society with it being destroyed by the active violent forces of society? the left was killed by wars. it was a war. we lost. here we are in the aftermath. electricity changed us. the internet changed us. agriculture and debt changed us. it didn't fix is, but it changed us and we'll keep changing as our tech changes. no other way. the question is always what are the ideal tech changes fully automated luxury gay space communism
2021-04-02 21:49

QUARANTINE DREAM

hahaha uh, so where's the part where technology of that magnitude '''transitions''' from child labor and suicidal chip factory workers? seems like you're entertaining some idea that technology is an actual consciousness or animal....very akin to what people seem to view capitalism as...lame ass child-people filled with technocratic dreams are always the actual maintenance crew and slaves of these domination fantasies of tech/capitalism.

QUARANTINE DREAM

"you were ALMOST right Brace/Liz, but you don't see that really, we do what we're doing w/different capitalist tech strategies and boom, space communism" hahahah absurd

hanfjob

;) give some time we'll see

QUARANTINE DREAM

find me a single piece of tech hardware produced w/o global south exploitative labor, you clown

hanfjob

a tesla coil ? maybe I dunno. how would one achieve a position where they are not utilizing global South exploitative labor? also I'm not saying there is good tech, I'm saying good tech is necessary. whether it exists or not currently, that is the difference that needs to be made. make sense?

(Noah J)

liz asks quizzically what went wrong with bernies campaign. we all thought he was going to win dude. the movement wasnt big enough. you should be asking yourself why the movement wasnt big enough. requires little to zero self-reflection. also, liz made almost no sense most of this one

Jimothy Realname

Mass free electricity? My impression is that we'll have something more like Mad Max, but not as cool

Lulu

I think that blaming the loss entirely on internal collusion is a cop-out. Obviously there was shady shit going on with Iowa and the drop-outs at the end. But, Bernie did horribly in South Carolina and there were areas where organizing clearly didn't go far enough.

Baron

Y’all should do an interview or book review with Phil A Neel. His new book Hinterlands would provide an interesting contrast with what Jodi is concluding here from her analysis.

aghs

Thanks

dshamz_

Hey guys - firstly, I’ve been a subscriber since day one, love the show. Good laughs and food for thought. Secondly, I think you’re a little hard on the FALC stuff, particularly as articulated by Aaron Bastani. Yeah, there are versions of it that are essentially variants of technocratic liberalism, but Bastani’s version is much better understood as an end-goal that is advanced by and requires labour organizing and class struggle to achieve. I’m sure there’s much to criticize about this version of FALC too, but the notion that it’s a technological fix and replacement for organizing isn’t accurate, imo. Anyways, keep up the good work!

dshamz_

There’s a lot to criticize about Novara in recent years but I wouldn’t lump Bastani in with the rest of them.

Cameron Young

Henry Abbott at True Hoop is doing a lot of long form style stuff on the NBA link to Apollo and JE. May be worth a guest spot on the future. I know Liz is #1 top shot queen

Tammy G

omg she was great

Katie

This was probably one of your best episodes. Would have loved more discussion on infrastructure -- like a mashup of your NFT episode & this... great stuff.

Daniel Goffe

This was a good episode. Brace and Liz, I would like to point out the parallel historically with the enclosures in England, by the theft of the commons by the ruling class. Now you have to be online to claim benefits in the UK for example. The online development is similar, also with the theft of land from native peoples by colonialists (whiskey and guns for land, when the concept of legal property didn’t exist for native Americans). There is a British academic called Nick Couldrey at the LSE who has described this concept as data colonialism as we don’t really know what exactly the data is to be used for, ie what technology could be developed, and how social relations could be affected by said mode of production.

Ben Graham

Agree entirely. I’d love to hear Aaron on the podcast to defend himself.

John Hardy

Ridiculous Adam. Social progress is only through mass organisation because history is and has always been about power. Tech means nothing unless it is a source of political power and can be wielded as a weapon by the majority against the ruling class. There's none of that in your tech utopian wet dream. Read some Marx.