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Episode 186: Delta Male (Patreon)

Published:
2021-09-25 04:33:08
Edited:
2024-10-11 00:17:12
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

We have a loose talk about the state of the virus and its effect on the American mind 

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Comments

D G

Terrible nonsense episode. Liz & Brave seem to be letting their Americanism override their communism.

Nathan Bebo

The only thing they got right was Bukele.

orc

Can you guys get a disgraced politician on as well

Justin Sexton

“legalize glory holes” would look great on a t-shirt

Vincent Utah

For the record: some of my friends did some kinky shit with gas masks and latex suits and they all still caught covid. I wish I was joking.

Woke Batou

Love to get my NBC fuck on

SMO

What if your flatmate pretty though?

MoldyTolge

I was imagining like a drop curtain or something to prevent face to face contact

MoldyTolge

Room full of people in forest green CBRN suits turn to see the pizza delivery man, in desert camo CBRN.

Vincent Utah

They were MSA’s but yeah, now you know what shit I’m into.

jer

Working night shift at the hospital. We're out here loaded up with COVID pts. Just 3 months ago we were closing those units off. Now we're popping bb

Salt M. Bank

How far Cool Dean has fallen

Olen Koira

liz saying play safer, brace makes the gun sound

WEEZYFBABY

Liz, stop using the n-word challenge

Colin Helpio

The Corporate Memphis couple having sex with the unshaved legs is one of the most awe-inspiring, horrific things a human can view.

Philipp K

What the fuck, Brace?

Rob Job

Vax passes in BC Canada. Just got off a plane today. Needed a pcr from Walgreens; pass and had to download and use the “arrivecan” app to go back over the border and not pay to quarantine in a hotel. Was in Montana for a week and no one gave a fuck there. Wearing a mask really outs you as a tourist mark there. Got a pretty good haul of books thrifin would go badk.

BROTHER TO BROTHER

I live in Montana, lol people do not give a fuck here. Where did you get books?

Brian Long

You guys could have used a gay representative during your sex party intro… 🙄

Sparrow

If you want a real conspiracy theory look at the CDC going masks off in May to undercut OSHA releasing their new worker protections.

Sparrow

Zero covid won’t happen… except in China. Honestly the USA’s complete bumbling of covid has really officially kicked off the Chinese century.

Sparrow

Endemic means it’s under control at a background level not just giving in to Capital and ignoring it. Letting it go the way it is now means seasonal waves of overrun hospital systems and mass death like is happening now.

Rai

y'all should do a crossover with The Death Panel podcast

gen~

im so glad you guys are taking this angle. "it seems like no one can say this stuff out loud" literally. it's like everybody has absorbed and internalized the narrative(s) to the point that they will argue and and shun you if you point out simple facts like the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission

Nick Jones

Milquetoast lib takes.

BruceInAdelaide

yes, you are right ,and I too wish you were only joking!

JV

"minority report ooga booga thing"

carl

coindexter is on the bill--you guys didn't put that in the tag for this ep.

steven

the misguided idea that covid19 is surely going to mutate into something less lethal is real fuckin dumb. everyone is now using this braindead "endemic, gotta learn to live with it" line after every mass media outlet left to right has run editorials saying the same fuckin thing for the past few weeks and it's only gonna get worse from here. everything is fucked lmao

JV

was kinda surprised by liz saying young men in the UK are being told to only get one shot... like that would be a huge deal lol and i've heard nothing about it. looked into it and yeah, there's a recent study indicating very small number of cases of heart inflammation following second dose of mRNA vaccines, more prevalent in young men but still tiny number of cases overall. everyone is still being told to get two doses!

jules

brace was right there

John

If putting cigs out on your small dog is cool then you can call me Miles Davis

A

You and Sparrow helped put into context why my idiot boss lately sounds like a parrot that has been taught the word Endemic. Polly was pissed I didn’t answer an email last week while I was in the middle of uncovering a total breakdown in our employers contact tracing from a confirmed case direct exposure that had left dozens not notified us included. I have kids under 12 and a chronic health condition so there’s serious concern about...my failure to multi-task...

Bryan eagle

Kissing is wayyyy too intimate I am scared of it

Kevin Price

sadly I think OSHA only shows up if someone sends an anonymous tip. Got an OSHA guy on one of my job sites once, otherwise it’s left to private sector goons like me

Playdoh

Can't believe y'all missed a Colonia Dignidad joke with the Paul Schafer name drop 😞

My Name

covid and Qanon have definitely not gone away in indiana, down the road from me lives a freak with FIVE (5) Qanon flags on their pickup truck

skirainier

This episode missed the mark for me. I agree the mandates aren't good from a "government overreach" perspective, and the "state of exception" we live in is scary, but there really isn't any good reason to avoid the vaccine at this point (barring any rare allergic reaction or similar). Even for young people, the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine for example is far lower (close to 1 in a million) than your risk of serious complications from covid. The state we are in is untenable from a healthcare resource perspective (plus the 2000+ people dying every day). Our hospitals are full of unvaccinated people with covid, meaning elective surgeries (including things like cancer surgeries) can't proceed, meaning our already present nurse and doctor shortages are becoming worse as burnout kicks in, meaning patients who do end up in the hospital can't have visitors. I don't really know how we get out of this, but from a leftist in healthcare, the laissez-faire approach we have taken has failed. Unless we want to start denying unvaccinated patients care (something I don't think we should do) we need to pressure more people to get vaccinated. I don't know how that happens without mandates, and frankly, more aggressive mandates than we have seen.

skirainier

For real. I get that mandates are a scary thought, but Covid is destroying our already failing healthcare system. Cancelled elective surgeries and burnout are hurting patients, Covid or not, vaccinated or not. If healthcare is a right then we have to control Covid, whether we have a for profit system or not.

skirainier

The risk of myocarditis(none of which have been fatal as far as I know) from the vaccine is lower than the risk of dying from Covid for that age group. I love Liz and Brace but they really don't know what they're talking about here.

Sparrow

Also the risk of myocarditis in the long term from covid (even asymptomatic) is much higher than from the jab

Sparrow

Fucking love Death Panel. Liz, it cuts through that schizo feeling and is so cathartic and grounding.

Rory

What if we made America Chinese ?

Sparrow

I can understand the “miss” in terms of health because that’s not their jam. But for me the miss was the lack of leftist analysis from ML/M Brace, even in a mocking way. Our class enemies want us to ignore the plague, ignore the risk to our children, get back to work, and go spend money. The libs they were mocking for being pro lockdown went full open-er-up months ago following Biden’s direction.

skirainier

Thats fair. I do still think it's irresponsible to talk about that stuff if you're not going to educate yourself on it, but I also understand it's a lot of information. I definitely agree about the class issues here though. The rich WFH types want to go back to normal and are pushing for full reopening now. Some are even directly saying it's because they need labor or consumers to maintain their wealthy lifestyles.

justdave

Got fired from my Chem lab mining job cuz I tried to casually tell HR that we should not store hydrochloric acid next to sulfuric acid next to raephenat next to arsenic- I know I'm an idiot

justdave

Watch 'Xavier renegade angel' if you ever have to watch those OSHA safety videos, sooooo karma cleansing

Kevin Price

Still pretty insane for HR to be that flagrant! Oh OSHA videos are a gorey blessing they rock

Heather Appleby

sterilizing immunity is likely a myth. there is no evidence that ANY vaccine completely prevents infection. yet, with herd immunity, the viral load in a population is reduced to the point where disease is prevented. here is a good explanation: theatlantic.com/amp/article/620023/

Gavin Farrell

Good ep guys. Let me add some further input here: 1918 Spanish Flu killed something like 50 to 100 million people, back when the world only had 3 billion people. And it indiscriminately killed young and healthy people. So far COVID-19 has over two years only killed 4.7 million people worldwide, when we have a world population over 7 billion. And it has been knocking off nearly exclusively old people and otherwise unhealthy 'at risk' people. It may seem like a big statement, but the virus has killed basically nobody. And that is with what could be described as a mostly botched response. And whatever the response was, I'm seeing college and NFL football stadiums fill up now with unmasked screaming fans. And nobody is shaming them. However, last summer the epidemic was definitely used to shame BLM protesters and had an influence on a rapid closure of the Democratic primary. You ask at the end of the ep when the economic collapse is going to happen. Other numbers suggest the economic collapse is really currently underway. Back in fall 2019 the Fed began bailout activities similar to the 2008 meltdown activities. COVID relief bills have been on the same scale or bigger than the corporate bailouts that happened during the 2008 'recovery'. We're still carrying like 10 million more unemployed than we were pre-pandemic, and labor market participation has been on a slow decline since 2000, and really fell off a cliff when the COVID response started. There is a massive housing bubble with possible mortgage and eviction crisis right around the corner, inflation starting to kick in, and the stock market is now propped up penny stock speculation. 2023 seems pretty far off, it seems like we're currently making the choice to just print money to accept inflation to keep the stock bubble inflated and hand gobs and gobs of money over to big pharma. Biden just purchased 500 million vaccines (full price no doubt) to hand over, despite 50% of new COVID cases in Israel being breakthrough cases. It does seem like COVID is going to be just another moderately effective flu shot we get annually, but the Feds printing money in order to purchase it full price from the Big Pharma dogs. That is what hundreds of millions of dollars in lobbying gets you - access to 10's of billions of dollars of bailout money.

Gavin Farrell

Hypernormalization, baby! Agreed, I like their angle.

jer

The first neo liberal vaccine might be the dumbest shit I've heard in a long time. Actually, this epi sucked.

Heather Appleby

I'm a leftist biologist and I agree with this statement. I also felt this episode was teetering into misinfo territory by implying that some sort of flaw in the vaccines is preventing us from ending the pandemic.

jer

Cool, I'll remember this when upgrading 50 and 60 year olds to the icu this evening.

Sean McKenzie

Covid has killed 4.7 million people / the virus has killed basically nobody You look dumb as hell

Chad

The handsome male listeners can go…..I’m safe!

Vincent Utah

Nobody likes a prude, Bruce.

Heather Appleby

people have no idea what it means for a virus to become endemic, or they don't care, or both. it's possible that we'd be dealing with our current situation (or a more transmissible or pathogenic virus) for YEARS. this past year has really shown how unwilling people are to protect the most vulnerable.

Vincent Utah

The covid misinformation hype has been leaking into a large range of podcasts, even on the Left. Obviously it generates a lot of clicks and yes, panders to most people’s current fears and outrage. This ep was flirting with that line the entire time, especially Liz with her “government/security overreach” shtick that contradicts her entire theory of the patchwork infighting that makes up our federal institutions. As Matt Christman pointed out on his vlog, any non-laissez-faire government (including a Maoist government for that matter) would have instituted lockdowns, mandates, and vaccines rollouts in the face of a global pandemic. It happened with small pox, polio, measles… you fucking name it. But no, the grifter market is cashing in heavy in the podcasting world, and I can understand the enticement may be too much to resist in certain cases. I mean that IDW prick Brett Weinstein’s dogshit, pseudoscience podcast exploded with his anti-vaxx criticisms and his endorsements of ivermectin—and he’s a confirmed hack. People however are fucking dying, so if Brace and Liz want to continue to play footsie with and further lean into this easy attention-grabbing rhetoric, might as well end my subscription. I really really REALLY hope they do not, but if they do I guess I’ll look forward to seeing them getting their shit debunked on Decoding the Gurus.

phillypostmaster

California brained episode. Vaccines are good and vaccine mandates are good. Hospitals are still packed with covid patients in parts of this country.

Gavin Farrell

I'm talking in terms of world historical pandemics, COVID has killed basically nobody. Clearly it has killed people. But if you want to actually look at numbers, it is not something that would on its own seem to require trillions of dollars of bailout money to be doled out. I'm not an anti-vaxer, I've had the vaccine. Clearly there are some benefits to vaxing against it. But as Liz and Brace say in the ep, what we're looking at in reality is probably another seasonal flu shot. That is already what the response is in reality, people are out there maskless living their lives, but there haven't been massive death spikes, and areas of the world that are lower vaccination rate aren't having people drop dead in their tracks. A large number of the COVID deaths in the US were very preventable with lack of medical care.

Gavin Farrell

thank you for your work Jeremy, I have a longtime friend who worked for about a year as an ICU nurse. It is probably the most emotionally draining job a human being can work, stay strong.

Gavin Farrell

I thought it was on point. Our response has been very Neoliberal.

jer

The response has absolutely been neoliberal, I agree. I suppose I misunderstood what calling the vaccine neoliberal meant if it does refer to the response?

jer

But I think Liz's comment about neoliberal vaccine is likening the formulation of an mRNA designed vaccine to neoliberalism. As in, this newer medical technology is somehow more akin to neoliberalism. Whatever, it's a one off comment from a Podcaster. I shouldnt read into it. But it's dumb af if that's indeed what is meant.

Brendan Garcia

I used to work with a guy whose dad worked for a company that made up words for brand names, primarily for pharmaceutical companies. It was in San Francisco.

Rob Job

Got a first edish 3 stories flannery o Connor and a signed lawerence block advanced readers copy of when the sacred gin mill closes from Hope Thrift in Kalispell for 50 cents each. Got a first edish the plot against America, a grove press The Wild Boys by Burroughs and two live from death rows at a spot in Missoula who’s name I’m forgetting also 50 cents per. I sell books on the street up here, brought back a lil shy of 100 all told in a hockey bag. And didn’t get covid as a bonus so all and all great trip to see the mom in law.

Tea Ess

Brace only has one nipple

George P

classic debate team dumb guy shit here, making up a benchmark (Spanish Flu) and then saying it's not a big deal because it fell short of the made up benchmark. I guess then Spanish Flu killed basically nobody since it didn't touch the bubonic plague death toll.

Cardboard

Before doing another covid ep, you guys need to do more research and maybe interview someone with a bio background. This one was seriously misinformed. Covid seems like an always-online thing to worry about if you live in CA, but its not translatable to literally any other state. Also, CA and every other state will probably see another surge during the holidays.

Cardboard

Yes the US response to the pandemic has been neoliberal (individual actions), but I'm not convinced Brace and Liz would approve of an adequate institutional response either. We would pay people to stay home and have universal healthcare, but also have vaccine checkpoints/passports, mandatory vaccination, extensive contact tracing. The US is not capable of this even if it wanted so I guess its a moot point

gen~

the covoids are popping in these comments

BruceInAdelaide

Brace and Liz, you mentioned Foucault the pedo, why not do a show on him?

Playdoh

It's easier than you'd think to confuse your bottles of lube with your canisters of GB nerve agent, can never be too careful. I keep the atropine injector right next to the buttplugs.

Alejandro Pepsi

This episode has gunked me up all day. A lot to think about and, Liz is right, I need to de-personalize more. But the coin dexter helped get me through it. A+

00000000000000000000

If you end your subscription, Vincent Utah, I'll buy another one to offset the loss. And if you want to write off the podcast talking about the various absurdities of the response to Covid as a cynical ploy generate a lot of "clicks," I say you have a problem dealing with reality. You don't want to admit this past year and a half has been a hallucination-- a profoundly disturbing hallucination like a feverdream that barely makes sense-- because you want the madness to last forever. No thanks!

00000000000000000000

OK kids, let's see if you can spot the glaring inherent contradiction in these two sentences: "Vaccines are good and vaccine mandates are good. Hospitals are still packed with covid patients in parts of this country." If the vaccines are so good, why are the people who had them side-by-side with the unvaxxed still "packing" the hospitals? It's as if they don't work very well...

Vincent Utah

Boregon, I’ll end my subscription IF they start sliding down the covid misinformation rabbit hole—which as I stated is really easy and enticing to do right now. Are you aware of the term “audience capture?” Also, way to misrepresent everything I fucking said and drum up your own stupid conclusion of my perception like a conspiracy theorist. Well done.

00000000000000000000

I loved this episode. I'm sure 75% of the listeners had steam coming from their ears and promptly unsubscribed. But speaking on behalf the 25% of listeners who didn't, thank you Brace and Liz for some honest opinions about the plan/scam/pandemic. I don't agree 100% with you but I really, really, really, really appreciate the honesty. It's very welcome.

00000000000000000000

Nearly everybody has indeed internalized that narrative. Look at the freaked out, angry comments here. I see a lot of stern warnings about "misinformation" but am still looking for the prefix "Russian" that so often accompanies it... Hopefully soon. Don't disappoint me shitlibs!

00000000000000000000

People have been deeply terrified by the media. They are still very scared and angry, and they don't like it when someone else gets out of line.

Vincent Utah

^^ 95-99.9% of the hospitalization are UNVAXXED patients, you fucking moron! This is what I’m talking about: You start flirting with misinformation and soon enough the addled misinfo crowd starts amassing in your following like flies on shit.

00000000000000000000

I wasn't aware there was a crowd with me, nor that we had suddenly started amassing. (I subscribed to this podcast not long after it started.) Anyway, I'm sure you're right that it's only the unvaxxed in the hospitals. I was starting to worry for a second there. It's probably only in the red states, too, right?

skirainier

Boregon, data from July shows vaccinated people are 17 times less likely to end up hospitalized, and even less likely to die. The vaccines absolutely work. Actually read some primary literature or shut the fuck up. Besides the 2,000 people dying every day(many likely due to believing the kind of bullshit you're spreading), the fact that our hospitals are full is an issue for everyone, vaccinated or not. Several states are in crisis care protocols, meaning they are not able to provide the same quality of care to any patients. Other areas that haven't quite reached crisis care are still limiting elective surgeries, again hurting standards of care.

Vincent Utah

Boregon, where you getting your info from, pal? The Dark Horse podcast? Awaken with JP? Unless you’re a virologist who’s been putting in the actual work and time to understand this shit, you can fuck off.

jer

Lolol. You're too much man.

SMO

Ep was shite - the world is full of individuals. What an astute observation. I’m bored. Just put it in the water supply already.

Vincent Utah

They would randomly drive by job once in a blue moon if we were in the suburbs. In the city however, they were definitely breathing down our necks. Guess it varies from state-to-state.

E.J. Rollins

Im glad this is not a free episode, because i think there were some sentiments aired here that would be WILDLY irresponsible if aired in a more public medium, and i'm saying this as an anarcho-communist, so maybe take your Marxist asses and step back and have more of a harder think, eh?

E.J. Rollins

Like, seriously, y'all need to release a short, PUBLIC followup service announcement ASAP that urges people to get vaccinated and to follow various guidelines that are proven to reduce transmission, cuz some of the things you said in this episode could very easily lead to confusion or be open to interpretation in ways that could pose a public health risk. I'm being very fucking serious.

Sean Carton

We speculated “what city did Liz move to” and realized west coasters NEVER move to the east coast. The other direction, yes, happens. But she hasn’t come further East than Chicago.

00000000000000000000

Is everybody else who has been commenting on this Patreon a virologist too? I wasn't aware I was in such distinguished company. I never would have posted my stupid layman thoughts if I knew a PhD in virology was de rigeur.

E.J. Rollins

This isn't a "false narrative", though. What scientifically illiterate dipshits like you don't seem to understand is that the vaccine doesn't "prevent transmission" in the sense that there is never any transmission, but that it "prevents transmission" in the sense that it significantly reduces the liklihood of transmission, just like every other fucking vaccine in existence. Holy fuck you are dumb.

E.J. Rollins

Hey, Brace and Liz, this kind of comment right here is why you need to be really fucking careful about what you say and how you say it.

00000000000000000000

Except that judging by the explosion of cases in highly vaccinated areas it doesn't even reduce transmission. I've just been taking the assertion that it reduces the severity of the illness for granted, but I would imagine like every other claim about the vaccines, that's probably greatly exaggerated too.

00000000000000000000

"You need to be really fucking careful about what you say and how you say it." - E. J. Rollins, channeling George W. Bush's press secretary Ari Fleischer.

E.J. Rollins

Dont do what, Boregon? Issue a potentially life-saving public service announcement? Fuck you, and your indifference to the real lives of real people.

E.J. Rollins

Like, yeah, I get it, how many people are going to listen to this podcast where that actually matters? Well, up above i just responded to someone who was spouting misinformation about the vaccine, and that's a PATREON who felt motivated enough to leave a comment. There are likely at least a dozen where they come from who feel the same way, but didn't comment, and each of them will spout their bullshit to others, and each convince many more, and so on. Do y'all really wanna feed into that?

E.J. Rollins

@Boregon >"explosion of cases in highly vaccinated areas" Cool story, bro, citations needed

Bleepblopp

My aunt has studied virology for 20+ years and also voted for trump. She is not a biden fan but she has urged everyone she knows to get the vaccine. Almost every side effect you can experience from the vaccine you can also experience from covid but at multiple times the severity. It is not worth waiting til it’s too late. Getting the virus is an inevitability at this point and having the vaccine will greatly reduce your chances of dying from it. Also - Some of the side effects reported from the vaccine (like heart inflammation, exacerbated neurological disorders ) are in handfuls of people. Nothing compared to the number of people reporting severe symptoms from the virus and some are not even confirmed to be linked to the vaccine. The post vaccine illness (common in other vaccines) is similar to the flu but nowhere near as long and far less intense than covid.

E.J. Rollins

@Boregon I'm gonna guess that you just saw some headline somewhere on social media, and have actually zero data on transmission

E.J. Rollins

@Boregon if you view this situation as being "terrified" or or not, or as whether or not someone "gets out of line", then youre a fucking idiot.

fjfffffddd

You can't believe the government and media yet maybe you should also get the vaccine. The problem is a first world one of assuming you're getting to make the informed decision yourself and that you deserve to have it turn out right. Centrally planned solutions might be necessary and yet the solution might also fail while still having been designed a well as possible.

E.J. Rollins

If youre a virologist, Boregon, post a link to a photo of your degree, and then post links to studies that confirm what you say, and if you cant do either of those, yet you continue to spout misinformation, yet demand that anyone who challenges you be a certified virologist, then i would suggest that you fucking suck-start a shotgun and relieve this earth of your delitirious presence.

E.J. Rollins

I would rather a show on Stalin the pedo first

fjfffffddd

Consider it an opportunity to de first worldize yourself.

CB

Great episode, loved the honesty. So many inconvenient truths that must not be said - particularly natural antibodies through infection. Wife had Covid almost 18 months ago, now unvaxxed but still have very high level (and more wide ranging than vax) of antibody confirmed by a quantitive test last week but this will not be recognised under any mandate.

orc

Imagine being immunocompromised and listening to this lol. There's no lib-left solution to the pandemic

jer

Research does show that antibodies are further boosted after vaccine even with prior history of covid infection. Not to negate your comment about having protective ab from infection.

Paul Saulsman

i dont really listen to the media i talk to my sister whos an ICU nurse and cant see other patients because theyre 100% of people from covid

00000000000000000000

You sound like a really kind person who is sincerely concerned about people's health, E.J. Not at all unhinged.

Spencer B

Just get it over with and have Whitney Webb on, before your fans start getting things twisted

E.J. Rollins

Youre full of shit. There is no "very high level" determination of antibodies. There are varying ranges of presence, but nothing to indicate something akin to "very high level". Additionally, the presence of antibodies alone is not sufficient to determine a person's susceptibilty to covid or what effects it may have on a person if infected, because the human immune system is a lot more complicated thsn that. Get vaxxed u fucking chud.

E.J. Rollins

Seriously, when you have antivax nutjobs up in the comments bein like "Hell yeah! Great episode!", you might want to take a step back and think about what kind of messaging you're putting out, and maybe think about course-correcting.

E.J. Rollins

@Boregon Cool, now show me your degree and the peer reviewed studies that back up what you say.

CB

Maybe don't tell other posters to kill themselves if you're going to come to the comment section pretending you care about others health.

SMO

Get swoll testies TOGETHER!!!

George P

was odd hearing Liz say individuals should make their own decisions on the vaccine based solely on what's best for them, seems a neoliberal mindset. even if I knew the worst COVID would do to me would be a mild cold, I'd still get vaccinated to make it less likely I'd spread COVID to others who might get seriously ill. when the pandemic first started you guys did some great episodes, pushing back hard on the psychos who didn't care about the elderly dying and really emphasizing taking care of others. that kind of spirit was completely missing from this episode. i know the libs scolding people over the vaccine (and even saying the unvaccinated shouldn't get medical care) are insufferable, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't get it.

zz

this episode is a good reminder that just because Liz speaks confidently doesn’t mean she is well informed.

Smith's Fine Electric Amusements

I gotta disagree with Liz about how there would have been some liberal contingent that wouldn't have taken the "Trump Vaccine". These people worshipped the ground Fauci walked on, and he would have been pushing that vaccine the whole time. They definitely would have "trusted the science". I think the exact same people wouldn't have been antivax as under Biden: The hogs, the pigs, and woo woo idiots. The only difference would have been the government response. Trump wouldn't have supported or pushed for lock downs as much, or fought for unemployment extensions, etc. The libs would have all been perfectly happy, taking their vaccines and being spitting mad about how Trump and his voters were endangering everyone's lives.

Gavin Farrell

If you want to go there, yes, effectively (as horrific as it was), if you look at a world population graph of the 20th century and ask 'where did the Spanish Flu hit?' you wouldn't be able to pick it. Because as horrific as it was, it didn't wipe out 1/3 to 1/2 of the population like the Black Plague did. I'm not an expert at all on the Medieval plague, but the Black Death was a societal-changing event which did in some ways change the relationship between peasants and landowners, unlike the Spanish Flu which changed nothing in the structure of society when it occurred. COVID has killed as I say, statistically pretty much nobody compared to historical pandemics, and yet societally things are being changed in a significant way in response to COVID: Private capital is consolidating power. Bill Gates has become the biggest farmland owner. Bezos is also buying properties. Blackrock is buying shitloads of rental properties. The mega banks are buying energy infrastructure and utility companies (along with properties). The banks have a bailout pipleline like back in 2008, but there's no Occupy Wallstreet this time around. We passed a bill which was the greatest upwards transfer of wealth in history. So who's dumb here? It is a real disease that has killed a real amount of people, but from a Leftist perspective there is a massive coup of capital underway.

a clash of purple

Yes, I do want to feed into that, because it's funny? Like, if you're some jackass idiot who doesn't believe vaccines and viruses are real or whatever, why would you care if TrueAnon podcast says "BTW get vaxxed." And if people die, oh well. I think everyone in the world is far past giving a shit about human life or dignity except to screech about it to try and win points in dumb on-line arguments. People have made up their minds about all this shit already, they're definitely not going to alter their thoughts or behavior just because you or podcasters or anyone else tells them so. Everyone needs to get over this delusion that you can just talk someone into doing what you want. If you really want people to get the vaccine, make it mandatory and throw them in jail where they're forced to get it anyway if they refuse. If you don't make it compulsory and then actually squeeze people until they break, then there's always going to be a big chunk of the population who refuses to go along with it because, as Brace pointed out, frankly they're retarded.

a clash of purple

The correct solution to the pandemic is to pay everyone to stay home and, I don't know, kill them and burn the body if they breach quarantine. Do the same for vaccinations. If you refuse to get the vaccine, then you get strapped down and injected against your will. Why should other people be senselessly put at risk just so some dumbass can feel like they're sticking it to the government? So I pretty much disagree with Liz. We could really use some more brutal authoritarian control in the world right now, not less. Or rather, take the existing brutal authoritarian control and devote some resources towards improving public health rather than just making money for the Clinton crime family and obtaining underage victims for the Spider Network.

Rae

I'm here to confirm that Indiana...like always... is the slow kid in class. Well, meaning, but just can't keep up.

Rae

Rory, I think we are at least becoming Korean. I did sound and lighting for a Kpop dance contest this week and now I'm into Kpop. That's how they get you.

BTULTRA

Skrewdriver fucking sucks lmao

E.J. Rollins

@a clash of purple: While it's true that the diehard, ideologically motivated antivaxers can never be won over by facts or arguments, there are a whole lot more people than that who are just on the fence, or confused, or slightly misinformed, and their minds can absolutely be changed, so for them, clear, consistent, evidence based messaging is absolutely important, so that the antivax brain worms don't hold sway.

E.J. Rollins

@Chris B: Nah, that's such a weak fuckin take. Everyone, to a greater or lesser extent, is selective about who they do or don't give a shit about, so someone not caring if a select few people die is no basis for determing their concern for others' wellbeing generally.

Curiouser

I feel schizophrenic about the podcast. There are things I really like. One is when you point out that it is a "neoliberal" vaccine -- and I also would love if we could all agree on a different word for that. Also the thought experiment of how the response would have been different if there weren't so many of the politically-engaged class (myself included) who could isolate without a great cost. On the other hand, when you make sweeping comments about all of the expert pronouncements being proven wrong. Some, of course. And some were knowingly wrong at the time and influenced by political concerns. But, on balance, most experts (genuine ones, not everyone on TV, of course) who have provided useful insights. Dismissing them outright leads to the utter chaos we have now. Also, you said something like "I'm the only one willing to admit it is never going away." Many experts, yes experts, have been saying that for months. For instance: Stat News: How the Covid pandemic ends. https://www.statnews.com/2021/05/19/how-the-covid-pandemic-ends-scientists-look-to-the-past-to-see-the-future/ I don't know what's been said on TV because I rarely watch TV news (and recommend everyone stop). Worse than Facebook. We'd all be better off without it.

Evan

Fuuuck ya this episode produced some comment gollllld

Keegan

Lmao so many fucking nerds

Will McCauley

This comment section is fucking deranged lol

Dakotah

I know it's exhausting and it's been years and you kind of just want to ignore it at this point, but man this episode was disappointing. Hospitals are absolutely packed where I'm from. The problem hasn't gone away, people are just getting better at ignoring it. Just because people you find annoying are in favor of mask and vaccine mandates and such, doesn't mean you have to go the opposite route. There is absolutely no reason to not get vaccinated at this point. I'm missing the Brace and Liz from the beginning of this thing that were emphasizing being responsible and taking care of each other, coming together as a community etc. On a separate note Qanon (the spirit of the thing at least) is definitely still around. I've got guys in my hometown waving Q flags on the back of their trucks still, and boomer relatives of mine are coming out more and more.

Heather Appleby

a wider range of antibodies isn't necessarily better. there is a greater risk of autoimmune disease later on and high N IgG titers are associated with worse covid outcomes. immune memory is more important and does not always correlate with antibody titer. I honestly wish people would just admit their ignorance instead of making claims like this.

Heather Appleby

did you actually read the paper? "SARS-CoV-2 qualitative RT-PCR diagnostic tests might provide a crude correlation to the amount of virus present in a sample and can also be affected by factors other than viral load." there is a great podcast by a group of virologists (the host literally wrote the gold standard intro to Virology textbook) & immunologists called TWiV that goes over these papers when they come out if you need help.

Dave

Keep up the good work Liz and Brace. I appreciated this take on not forcing the vaccine on people. Don’t listen to the people in the comments here freaking about covid. They’ve lost their minds over the virus.

Heather Appleby

the fact that Liz & Brace were like "lol WhO sAyS sArS-CoV-2?" says everything you need to know about the information in this episode. if they were interested in providing their listeners with informed opinions, they couldve talked to literally one expert before recording and learned that it's a correct and important distinction to make between the virus that causes covid19 and covid19 the disease. but here they are giving the opinions of the exact 30s WFM ppl they talk about in the episode.

Liz

FR!!!

Heather Appleby

or a person who can't afford healthcare or an essential worker 😬

Cletus Bocephus

It is very cool that you know the correct and important distinction between the virus that causes covid19 and covid19 the disease

Heather Appleby

yeah so cool that I know the name of a virus that i work with. I KNOW people think it's uncool. that's exactly why people need to stop acting like experts and go back to admiting they don't care about science.

Jimothy Realname

sorry to rain on your parade, boregon, but as much as you want things to go back to normal, they never will. May as well get used to it.

00000000000000000000

How dare they make a show and not drag in An Expert? Or at least a Talking Head? Authority Figure? Very Important Person?

Keegan

Ha! Got em! You two finally revealed yourselves to be Russian provocateurs by saying...*checks notes*...some people don't want the second vaccine because they got very sick from the first one or because they caught covid in the meantime

Heather Appleby

lol I know right they should just stop having guests on the show

jer

That's bc this was a hot couch epi to fulfill its obligation to get out there. Apparently Liz just moved and is probably busy and they were like, "fuck it, let's just say things for an hr."

Meara

Does anyone want two tix to the Tuesday live show in Philly on the 19th of October

Slartibartfast

Your mum has swallowed gobs and gobs of my cum and my collapse is right round the corner.

Pangolin Dealer

dumb and dumber just rambling for an hour

Logan

What do you mean?

Jimothy Realname

they're not Russian provocateurs, they're CIA provocateurs

Colin Clark

Pleaaaaassse moetkacik@gmail.com

Sick dude

The intro is priceless!

Logan

Good points about how media talks about the unvaccinated. Overall this ep kinda sucked. Like what you do 99% of the time.

marcus rose

I love how people say they are stupid, and yet don't mention why specifically what they said was wrong

Jack & Maria

Idiotic and irresponsible ramblings

xasquim

How the tables turn...neoliberal Liz

xasquim

Love you guys, and you're not wrong about some parts of the totalitarian narrative, but you missed the mark big time here. Get a real virologist on to explain.

Pug_luvr

You can still spread the virus to others if you're vaxxed...

Sparrow

Message me on the discord and I can send you more details if you can’t find them on google. I’m the only sparrow afaik

00000000000000000000

We've all heard about "antivax nutjobs" and how horrible and crazy they are, but you know what no talks about? Pro-vaccine crazies. Terrified quadruply-masked freaks spewing rhetoric dripping with bile and spite, always making really cringey quasi-fascist threats, and generally embarrassing themselves in so far as anyone in the audience can question the ubiquitous propaganda soup that spawned this mutual mass delusion. How come every forum I've been on has so many more of THEM than the aforementioned "antivax nutjobs" like myself? Why is it they feel so comfortable stepping outside the bounds of common decency over and over? Why not call them out for once?

greg

liz continues to make a strong case for horseshoe theory

Rai

yea I'm from Florida and the last time I was there people were flying qanon flags and had stickers on their cars. my mom is a nurse out there and self-id'd qanon and trump diehards have threatened to attack or blow up her hospital more than once bc of covid conspiracies. it's Florida, but still.

Rai

I feel like it's worth pointing out a lot of folks working from home are not rich lol. I am working from home and low-income, same with my partner until they went back to in-person. but yea the rich folks at my job and many others here in the DC area are more than ready to sacrifice service workers so they can have a 14 dollar old fashioned in a bar that opened in 2016.

Sonia Iyer

lol whats with everyone hating this episode? i saw all these comments and listened to the ep waiting for them to say something wrong or controversial but honestly everything they said was perfectly reasonable

Mike Bilbe-Taylor

Not as controversial as the Curtis ep, and to think that was just about a documentary!

Jimothy Realname

BREAKING: NOTED CIA LINKED PODCAST "TRUE ANON" PUTS OUT ANTIVAX EPISODE IN ORDER TO SPLIT THE AMERICAN LEFT EVEN FURTHER. FUROR AS THE HOSTS IMPLY THAT THE UNVACCINATED HAVE HUMANITY

Keegan

Shut up nerd, it was just a chat

Keegan

I gave it a second listen because I thought I must have missed something with all the deranged comments here, but I don't even hear anything controversial. Maybe it's not the MSNBC line exactly and that's what they're upset about, but I wouldn't think so many libs listened this long only to get upset at this episode lmao

PrinceVocalFry

When are these people going to realize that they themselves are petit-bourgeois intellectuals who work in the media and stop projecting their self-hatred? It's boring and obnoxious–especially when we are subjected to shaming lectures that are always punctuated by some version of "I don't want to lecture you." Have some respect for yourselves and your listeners. It's much more interesting.

Rai

yes, bc no vaccine is perfect. but it reduces spread significantly as well as severe symptoms (that increase spread!). vaccines + NPIs are the key to getting out of this. we just had 30 straight days of 1000+ deaths/day. I know y'all don't care, but people working in hospitals are completely overwhelmed and even ONE more person in the ICU has incredible ripple effects because our healthcare system is an absolute joke. we shouldn't be willing to sacrifice millions of people just to pretend covid doesn't exist anymore. I don't get that logic.

Rai

Biden hasn't even pushed for a lockdown. lockdowns have been completely off the table since last year lol.

Rai

no one has said this.

Rai

it was an okay episode, some decent points, but there are just way better and more informed takes out there (listen to death panel). I was mainly irritated because they seemed to go back and forth between "this is serious" and "people who think this is serious are really annoying, so we shouldn't take things seriously." also they just literally do not know what they are talking about when it comes to a lot of the data and they kind of sit up here like they're better than everyone else as if every dipshit in the Atlantic hasn't already been doing the whole "everyone is actually overreacting, but no one is willing to admit it except me" schtick for the last six months. 🙄🙄🙄

Rai

I feel like folks are just commenting their opinions? because it's a comment section. also: this just in, it's liberal to care about public health, but not liberal to believe getting out of the pandemic is up to individual choice. got it.

Vincent Utah

Boregon, because you’re commenting in left wing forums. Perhaps you would feel more at home with the millions of chuds sucking off Nick Fuentes and Mike Lindell? That’s who you’re sounding like, buddy. No amount of laundering right wing talking points because “populism” is going to change that.

Mike Malloy

Emotions running high in the comment section here...I'd encourage everyone to just take a deep breath and relax a bit. Because if your blood pressure or body temperature gets too high, your microchip could break and you do NOT want that.

ptime

Fort Detrick employee detected

um

@Boregon you're a dumb cunt

Titivilis

Liz said she thought people should get vaccinated. But a person should be able to hold that view while also being able to observe that, hey, guess what, there is no such thing as US public health policy and there never will be so we're all fucked. These are not mutually exclusive positions.

Luka

When is yung chomsky going to come on and talk about the gym?

Zach G

well this was bizarre

Andy

in all fairness sex parties and sex-positive events are pretty common in NYC

zz

Man, here is the NPC always with the “hurr durr MSNBC” shit.

Rai

love the casual eugenics here. anyone "at risk" just deserved to die/going to die anyway because they're just inherent defective. therefore their deaths don't count and don't matter.

Rai

it's "losing your mind" to sit down and get a shot? that's just crazy? okay.

Rai

so it's msnbc to... acknowledge that public health shouldn't be left up to individual responsibility. like, what is this? idk what y'all think Marxism is, but it's not crying "liberal" every time someone breaks the illusion that the pandemic is over.

Rai

like, I'm serious. what exactly did I say that was wrong here? please enlighten me. I said 1) this is a comment section, so people are going to post comments. 2) simply saying that everyone should just look out for themselves (LIKE EVERY LIBERAL OUTLET HAS BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST 6 MONTHS) is the definition of individualist liberal nonsense. what exactly is your fucking problem based on the very simply points above? idk dude. I just want to stop getting sobbing calls from my ER nurse mother because people are dying all around her constantly. but super glad you got to feel like you're better than a random stranger in a comment section. fucking weirdo.

Rai

Liz and brace are right. this shit is making people absolutely fucking brain dead and insane. you're calling me liberal for saying the term public health.

Rai

also like if you saw my comments above, I was not incensed at the episode. I'm also not a fucking liberal. some of the ep had interesting points, some were fucking dumb, and some were just okay. I like the podcast a lot and wanted to see what other folks were saying about this episode. but then I saw all these fucking dick riders like you and your friend here and got very confused. y'all are screaming at people and calling them liberal and NPCs for saying the most normal basic shit. I really do not get it. like I'm sorry you're in this long term parasocial relationship with people who will never talk to you, but "dunking" on people in a comment section for typing two innocuous sentences isn't going to make that any better you stupid fucking cunt.

a clash of purple

Well, the reason why there's so many people who refuse to go along with anything sensible regarding the pandemic is because our society is so incoherent and fragmented in the first place. That's also why the government is so corrupt and incompetent. So really, if it was possible to enforce these measures, you wouldn't need to, because (as in other situations in the past where this sort of thing happened) the citizenry would be onboard with the program. So in the end I'm just being facetious. Look, is it so wrong to fantasize about having brutal secret police forces who torture and kill the people who I want tortured and killed, instead of the real brutal secret police forces who only torture and kill people who don't deserve it?

a clash of purple

Brace Belden, petit-bourgeois intellectual... Does Brace get no points for actually fighting and killing on behalf of an actual real-deal revolutionary leftist organization? Seems a little unfair.

zz

Fellas is it MSNBC liberal shill to care about a pandemic that is largely killing the working class and driving a massive restructuring of the economy in favor of capital?

D.K. Wilson

Please get a grip. Please remember the narrative, number and literal definition of a vaccine twisting necessary to create what you, apparently, honestly believe is a pandemic. And please realize “restructuring of the economy in favor of capital” isn’t remotely close to something new or recent.

zz

Yes, nearly every country in the world is participating in a large scale conspiracy that COVID is a pandemic

Heather Appleby

@marcus idk if you're referring to me but I didn't call anyone stupid. ppl who never learned molecular bio aren't stupid. and there are a bunch of comments addressing what was "wrong." I think the biggest issue was implying that we can't end the pandemic without a vaccine that provides sterilizing immunity when there is not really evidence that any vaccine provides sterilizing immunity or that sterilizing immunity is a thing that even exists. the point of vaccination is herd immunity and to reduce viral load in a population enough to prevent disease (covid) and protect the most vulnerable, not necessarily to prevent infection (w sars-cov-2). that is why scientists are now pushing for global vaccine distribution > booster shots in most age/risk groups.

D. Elwood

only issue with this episode is the return of the hated coindexter goblin, whom disgusts me.

Doug Cartel

what's there to misunderstand about not being "allowed" to say something obvious? An honest assessment of a situation would require acknowledging that even if the other camp is crazy there is at least a modicum of validity to their concerns, which is way too big of a concession to be considered "normal". Being american means you HAVE to pick a side, there are only two sides, and once you pick one you have to fight tooth and nail to defend it. Then you accuse the other camp of trying to shut you up. It's just classic american debate culture that we've been building for decades and everybody uses it regardless of voting preference. The pro vaxxers may be right, but they're maybe slightly less insane than the anti vaxxers because of how the media frames the discourse.

George P

it really is, and there's nothing they could have said about the vaccine that wouldn't have resulted in the meltdowns we're seeing here. very depressing situation, and very much proves the point about how insane everyone has gotten.

Klaus Zimmermann Mayo

I appreciate your observation that the approach to this pandemic, both politically and culturally, has been hyper individualized. I'm honestly very disappointed with number of people who I would expect to have a reasonable Marxist analysis resorting to blaming individual decisions of people, rather than spending that energy pointing out and addressing the massive structural failures of the for-profit health care system, as well as the closely related food system, which not only contribute greatly to an overall catastrophe in public health, but incline many of us to have a very well founded skepticism of the system as a whole.

SaberTail

I'm not going to read the rest of the comments, but I just want to say that Coindexter is now a Ferengi in my head canon. Just replace "bitcoin" with "gold-pressed latinum" and it works.

Jess

If you were REALLY running the infamous Klinton Krime Family, why on Earth would you spend time and money vaccinating people who wouldn't even vote for you? They're probably just going to get some chronic disease later and clog up Medicare... why not just let them go now before they get old enough for those government funds? It's like with gay people in the 1980s, only they can't say it out loud this time. (ok, I know it's not the actual Klinton Krime Family anymore...)

Keegan

I still don't get what you're so mad about even after you typed those multiple paragraphs. Didn't they criticize the neoliberal individualist response too? Use some of those 500 words to quote something from the ep you have a problem with if you're trying to make an argument. And I might be wrong but I think only one of us is screaming and seething here.

steven

5 million people died in India alone already, idiot

steven

hmm can you really call it a pandemic if there are pretty much no cases in the most populous country in the world

Gavin Farrell

Google says only 500k, Steven. You're off by an order of magnitude.

Gavin Farrell

@Rai, where the heck do I say the deaths don't count and don't matter? Every death counts, every death matters. I'm saying though, if you look at what is happening and try to put it in context of historical death tolls of other pandemics, our response seems strange for something that, as Liz and Brace say, is just going to end up being (maybe) another annual booster shot. And you're angry at a guy on a message board while we're filling stadiums with unmasked fans and I'm not hearing a peep from the MSM about how it might be a problem. Clearly psychologicaly everyone has already run the risks on this and decided it is not a big deal. And the numbers believe it or not do say that it is not a big deal.

steven

it's not a take lol

3SOC

Ok I get that it’s a long running bit that Brace doesn’t read but Liz does, but Brace goes on a whole thing about how Foucault is for nerds, and fair point. Lots of people “read” stuff without incorporating it. But then Liz gives a dead-on traditional Foucault style explanation at 52:00-55:00. So which is it? Is Foucault a pedophile for nerds or a guy who can help you think through the borders of the body/the body politic?

3SOC

reeeeeeeee I’m a nerd

Keegan

A pandemic is an epidemic that spreads across continents. It has nothing to do with the current count of sick in each country. If you want to get specific, the US is also at the highest number of active cases to date.

Rai

this is the take.

Rai

that's what you seem to believe.

00000000000000000000

So you're saying Coindexter keeps popping up... like a bad penny?

Benjamin Murray

that is literally what a podcast is, dude

D.K. Wilson

Liz is absolutely correct. It’s always been my position that open discussion “isn’t allowed,” in that the preponderance of what passes for discussion is someone pointing out a weakness on the pro or anti-vax information and the responses are, at best, absolutist, but even more often are completely out of context relative to the original statement. But more importantly open discussions between virologists or at least medical experts with an understanding of virology who disagree about the nature of COVID and/or it’s treatment are categorically not allowed. All in all it’s pretty sad.

Heather Appleby

this. the existence of for-profit alternative medicine and it benefitting from medical misinformation doesn't help either. edit: I also think it would help for people who don't care about/understand the science to keep their analyses focused on political and cultural issues because they tend to cherry-pick and/or misinterpret "science" to support their political opinions.

Heather Appleby

open discussions between experts happen constantly and are fundamental to science. where are you getting the idea that they're not allowed?

Heather Appleby

lol @Boregon "no one talks about ..." have you ever heard of Fox News, Infowars, etc? 🤔

E.J. Rollins

😂😂😂😂 Lol, wtf are you even talking about!? "Open discussions between virologists aren't allowed"!?!? Citations fucking needed. Or do you mean "they wont let some random chiropractor, or some "doctor" who has interesting ideas about "demon sperm" have equal space in public discourse"?

E.J. Rollins

If its not a take, then why even fucking mention it. What was your intention?

E.J. Rollins

Mott and bailey mother fucker

E.J. Rollins

So, maybe you could give some examples of some of the valid concerns?

steven

sorry EJ, i forgot all comments had to be a hot take. really only one country has been able to get this shit fully under control and that country happens to have almost 20% of the world's population. i made a bad joke but the west's response is an even worse joke.

D.K. Wilson

"open discussions between virologists or at least medical experts with an understanding of virology who disagree about the nature of COVID and/or it’s treatment are categorically not allowed." YOU me a link for the open discussion between two virologists who disagree about the above.

Richard L

Kinda disappointed in the individualist view on whether or not to get the vaccine (especially given the "neoliberal" criticism early in the episode?) focusing on how it'll affect you alone. Isn't the point to reduce spread and mutation? Part of my "individual" choice to get vaccinated was wanting to visit older family again. Hope future episodes aren't this lazy.

D.K. Wilson

Have you seen such a discussion? Have you or the person below seen two people on a stage with a moderator discussing the topics I addressed in my comment? Answer: no. What you do see is someone like Robert Malone, who for all his anti-bluster, was/is a cohort of Anthony Fauci's, who worked WITH Fauci on AZT (which, rather than mitigating AIDS mimicked the effects of AIDS on the human body) and worked with him on chimeric viruses play his, at a distance, role as alleged anti-guy quite well. What you won't see is someone like Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier sitting across from Anthony Fauci.

Heather Appleby

so what you really mean is "why won't Dr Fauci publicly debate the fringe scientists that support my preferred narrative?" Idk exactly how many experts exist in the world, but if you include virologists, immunologists, epidemiologists, medical professionals, I'm sure the number is in the thousands. Do you really think any significant percentage of this discourse occurs in public forums? Ultimately, the results of these discussions are studies with actual data that answer whatever is being discussed. However, if you're truly interested in counter arguments, an easy way to start is by googling your favorite fringe scientist/theory and "debunk" bc some expert has likely already done the work. also listen to a podcast called TWiV, which is hosted by the guy who wrote the gold standard virology textbook, for more expert discussion.

Julia

great ep. new logo is very cute :)

Benjamin Murray

Everything under neoliberalism is coercion except when it comes to consumer choice. That’s why it’s neoliberal, it’s a choice only in the sense that not having a job is a choice. Pharma will profit “for public good”, just like the neoliberal argument about this system being good because graph goes up. It’s just justification for sociopaths. It’s obviously not for public health, they aren’t even temporarily giving people health insurance, it’s completely cynical greed with a smile, you even get to pick from 3 different brands of vaccine and people talk about it like nike and addidas

Richard L

It seems like one reason this has become a raging debate is because it's one of the very few "choices" we get to have power over in our lives. I'm in a place with a degree of public health care so a "free" vaccine isn't out of the ordinary (e.g. we get free flu shots every year) but ofc pharma companies profit regardless. Do you think that's an argument against getting vaccinated though?

Noe thainks

He was a pedophile for nerds and weirdos

TangiePower

Absolutely huge babies in this comment section lol

MechanicalJunkie

Methadone maintenance therapy (the proletarian MMT) is actually the best preventative for covid

Svid

Liz starting off very womanly by explaining how she has a new bit instead of just doing the bit

bugsick

yeah gotta respect the dumbasses who didn't get the jab that could stop them from killing an immunocompromised member of the community because they felt a wittle bit sick after the first one 😢

Ernest Ambrus

Remember, Marx said, "Ruthless criticism of all that exists...except public health policy. That's where we're on the same page." And the crowd went wild.

Julian

You do realize that the “vaccinated” carry a massive viral load and could “kill” an immunocompromised person just as easily, right?

Julian

Thank you for finally making this. I’m sure it took a lot of courage in the face of such a large segment of your listenership being completely deranged, elite worshipping Branch Covidians. I’m sure more than a few of them tattled to Patreon for hearing things they didn’t like.

Julian

Best comment.

bec

anyone see black hammer of all groups doing an anti-vaccine protest outside the cdc because of nicki minaj??? what’s even their angle at this point

bugsick

Sorry man but if China's got like no deaths after ignoring all the bitching from armchair virologists and pushing the vaccines and lockdowns then that clearly does its job

Julian

Right, because China is a shining paragon of transparency and honesty. They probably just stopped testing. If we’d never lost our minds in the first place this would have been long since over with and you never would have even noticed anything but maybe a bad flu season.

bugsick

I'm in New Zealand just vibing tbh lad

Julian

It was very reasonable. Didn’t align perfectly with my views but that’s OK, I’m an adult. The people freaking the fuck out and wanting to force “vaccinate” the plebs are the same lunatics who wiped down their grocery’s, fell for the anti-cash bit, wear masks outside and in their cars, stopped hugging their friends and family, etc. while statistically probably not knowing anyone who died of* this unprecedented threat to human life on earth. They can’t admit that they were fooled into doing a bunch of ridiculous things so they have to triple down on everything that comes along. They have no choice but to keep it going, it’s probably not even a conscious action. Their minds would break if they stopped.

David Dayan

The vaccine isnt neoliberal, it's the current narrative favoring individual protection over slowing the reproduction rate at the population level that she's referencing. It makes a little sense. It's the implication that a little myocarditis is a good reason to not get vaxxed is the problem.

William Akins

Coindexter and the background music is killing me 😂😂

Slatliff

Depends what health advice you follow. In most cases you take the vaccine to reduce the impact on yourself and others, nothing to do with mutations. As the vaccine wasn't studied for the Delta variant, so it can still mutate within the vaccinated. Another is to reduce the impact on the health sector, this is the primary reason for taking it in Australia and to meet the modelling for a "return to freedom". People who want freedom to decide against the vaccine do so because they don't trust others, which in some cases is a valid concern. Third highest cause of death is medical error. Other people are naturalists and think maybe a purge is good or we can use people to mutate the virus into being a minor illness. There was a story the other day in New Zealand about how Novavax is now the "best" booster, along with being granted approval and that vaccinologists were confused by the decision because they haven't even seen stats on it. "Horse leading the cart" was the phrase used. I have also heard people say that they think others are so "pro-vaccine" because it allows them assert their authority over others or even a form of FOMO in case they did make the wrong decision. So I'd say it isn't a lazy episode. I live in Melbourne and have been watching how radically media and government can turn on those who want to voice their opinions. Sometimes freedom also involves making mistakes to learn.

Slatliff

Depends on your definition of immunocompromised people. Majority of people with immune issues can take the vaccine and that was the entire reason for vaccines. That is according to those who made them, their primary purpose is for elderly and weak. Though you are a New Zealander and given government choices for Medsafe booster approval, I'd say you have bigger issues to worry about. Given how brainwashed the general public of New Zealand has been to Auntie Cindy to avoid any government accountability or proper decision making.

Slatliff

The issue is the power and structure of "medical authorities", with emergency powers, decision making has been streamlined and dissenting opinions are either ignored or crushed. So in any case of mistakes, accountability is nonexistent.

bugsick

I'm all good brother, vaxed up and locked down

Jessica S

Not sure if podcast episode is brainwashed or subversive. I choose both. Ambiguity is always a safe bet.

Vincent Utah

David, let’s not pretend you and your rich libertarian brothers haven’t had a kinky sex party before. Albeit it was probably awful.

E.J. Rollins

@TXV1138: No, vaccinated people do not "carry a massive viral load". Youre literally just lying, or spreading a lie you heard. Holy fuck you're dumb.

E.J. Rollins

Youre the one up in here spreading literal antivax lies, dipshit.

Julian

I bet you guys would enjoy being cucked by Saint Fauci. I get a very strong soy vibe.

Evelyn B

i feel like im one of the 2 people who liked this episode

RyzomeRyan

Been wondering when you three would come out a C & V talk. You walked the line pretty delicately here, laying out pro's and cons to several angles of this thing; guess I can appreciate that.

Richard L

Fair points. Anyone feeling superior for whatever vaccination decision they make needs to get over themselves. My comment about the episode being lazy has more to do with the fact that they're just shooting from the hip and it feels like they phoned it in to fulfill their obligation for the week.

babygurl

She's actually on the Agamben train. Her comments on the state of exception are pulled from homo sacer and his version of biopolitics, which talks all about sacrifical life and making die without mentioning the other key aspect of biopolitics, making and incentivizing life. also Foucault as pedo thing is like a long myth, recently resurfaced by thar far right idiot guy saran or whatever his name is who had to retract a bunch of his recent claims because they were absolute and total invented fantasy. "I saw him at the graveyard!!!! Wait i wasnt there"

joan

The school board anti-mask uproar is a totally manufactured controversy.Of course, right-wingers don’t want legislation passed; they just want to burn things down. https://www.washingtonpost.com/s/politics/2021/10/01/masks-schools-koch-money/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWJpZCI6IjM4NzMyNDUiLCJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNjMzMTc1NzU4LCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNjM0Mzg1MzU4LCJpYXQiOjE2MzMxNzU3NTgsImp0aSI6ImRiMzEzZmE5LTVlNDktNDg1YS1hY2M1LWMxNzg4ZGNmYWU4YyIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9wb2xpdGljcy8yMDIxLzEwLzAxL21hc2tzLXNjaG9vbHMta29jaC1tb25leS8ifQ.MlwKZOJF9TVjMtpihX5MXwq3iKQwLpv8Rn2FAYelsOE

Marston Bicks

After reading comments: For people who have been ragging against public Healthcare for a while many leftists really dropped everything to warmonger China and support Pfizer (never a nazi company or anything don't look that up) it's shocking. I have two vaccine doses but think anyone calling any young man an "anti vaxxer" who doesn't want to gamble with heart disease compared to what the body will treat as a cold virus if he has already had it. The vaxx and anti vaxx shit is the most openly fash thing I have ever seen in political discourse. Especially as it largely seems to reflect t ones willingness to conform to the nu American corpo government.

E.J. Rollins

The myocarditis risk of the vaccine is extremely rare, fairly mild, and easily treatable. You know what else causes myocarditis, and does so far more frequently and more severely? Viral infections.

E.J. Rollins

@TXV1138: Cool link, bro. Too bad your fascist brain worms wont allow you to understand what that research even means.

Marston Bicks

You do understand my point here is that this type of attitude will only cause people to entrench further. The mrna vaccine is less effective at preventing both viral transmission and disease symptoms than prior infection. If we keep going through this cycle of mrna vax (non sterilizing so effect period is short and more ppl vax=more virus transmission for some reason according to data). The vaccine is almost structured like a ponzi scheme insofar as more of a population takes more of it the more the virus will hospitalized people.. thus more vax etc. Would be great racket if you owned a vaccine company beholden to profit not public health.. Unironically it's revenge of

Keil Jones

yep. Nearly the entire left has dropped the ball on vaccine mandates. It's amazing and sad to see the right wing out-left the left on this. While the left largely clamors for vaccine apartheid, and the left stays utterly silent on thousands being fired by corporations because they don't want to take an experimental treatment

skipmur

Very weak limited hangout episode. I've just seen a video of Fauci along with a gang of big pharma freaks talking back in 2019 basically saying "we’ve got this transformative stuff that we really wanna do, but we’ll need some kind of a destabilizing event to justify it and implement it all in the way we want" That on top of the fact this shit was blatantly leaked from a gain of function lab which was receiving funding from those same freaks along with the fucking pentagon and you've basically got the Covid equivalent of the Project For the New American Century pre 9/11. The fact that the hosts of this podcast haven't picked up on any of this is very reminiscent of when the left stuck its head in the sand post 9/11 when evidence soon began to pile up about the fact that elements within the US government were blatantly involved in organising those attacks. It's just cowardice on your part. Not that I can entirely blame you, you've gotta protect your Patreon income, those who have stuck their necks out and have attempted to report the truth on this platform and on others tend to get de-platformed pretty quickly. Or maybe it is just a case that getting the vaccine really does just turn you into a retard after all. Miss me with that shit.

mvmv

a lot of selective listeners in the comments....

stvndglsgrdn

what are some of your other thoughts, about stuff?

Mike Penix

Ej You are the fascist cheef. Most ppl r to afraid to tell u tho.

Mike Penix

When Liz says under 26 is she implicating a potential t--- war? Bc I deffo fought if so lol