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Episode 191: Network (Patreon)

Published:
2021-10-25 04:15:18
Edited:
2021-10-25 04:17:27
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

We're back, discussing the fallout from the Facebook whistleblower, the social malaise of the social network, the viral spread of Tik Tok tics, and podcasting in the age of digital reproduction.

The Author as Producer by Walter Benjamin 

Inside Tik Tok's Booming Dissociative Identity Disorder Community 

Facebook research deck 

Ft. music by Robin Hatch 

Files

Comments

Andy Martinez

Sorry. I know I'm really late to the party. But I was hoping someone could tell me the source of the quote Liz ends with

CJ

Coming back to this after being yelled at for saying “tik tok being banned isn’t that bad”

demontwink

this was “the easy way to quit social media” for me

Nic Bodiford

Please do a Walter Benjamin series!

D G

The line of thinking you are promoting in this episode is at the top of a slippery slope down which you'll find anti-trans thinking. Be very very careful and think very very critically about what Liz and Brace discuss.

.

I came back to this episode after all the recent events tracing back trueanon’s episodes on all of this throughout the years. It’s simply absurd someone would comment this and it’s honestly extremely transphobic to talk about slippery slopes irg to trans people with what they are talking about. Thinking that speaking about how social media has produced mass psychosis and mental illnesses that produce symptoms and in anyway correlates to trans people which is not a mental illness is extremely transphobic. Trans people have existed before social media. They’ve existed since humans have existed. You are using the threat of a right wing talking point to scare people into talking down left wing spaces with serious grievances against what social media is doing to kids and the world. Do not use trans people as a cudgel for your bullshit.

D G

[Edited] I don't know how you misinterpreted what I was saying, but you must have because you're accusing me of doing the exact thing I was warning people to be careful to avoid doing.

.

I didn’t misinterpret. You’re accusing the people of this show of doing a slippery slope argument against trans people when there are genuine reasons to be alarmed and disgusted with what social media is doing to kids and that includes trans kids. Reread what I said. Bringing up trans kids in this context as some “slippery slope” in left wing spaces is fucking insane and used as a cudgel. Everything they’re talking about and the harmful affect these apps have INCLUDE trans kids.

D G

Not what I was saying at all

.

“The line of thinking you are promoting in this episode is at the top of a slippery slope down which you’ll find anti-trans thinking.”

D G

Yep that's what I said... Well done. Idiot

.

Don’t say anything about how harmful social media is to kids mental health and sense of self because that’s a slippery slope to anti trans rhetoric. You are the fucking idiot.

Lars

Then what the fuck are you saying since we are too dumb to figure out your goddamn appeant cryptic warning

Juliette

Idk for sure bc I haven't finished the ep yet but since the person you are responding to said "WB quotes" I'm assuming it's a Walter Benjamin quote. I'm even later to the party than you- you probably answered this question yourself sometimes last summer

cmanenarwhale

iphone didnt start reading qr codes until 2017 - which was a really long time. pre covid you did need an app to read a qr code, which is why the originally didnt catch on (my theory).

D G

Regarding my earlier comment and the responses to it: This moral panic about children catching Tourette's and ADHD from social media is complete bullshit. This rhetoric is part of the Christian fundamentalist right wing heritage foundation hysteria argument that kids are being made gay or trans through exposure. Their agenda is to panic parents into backing legal reforms that would allow them to censor and restrict access to online content they deem immoral. Access to content should be for individual parents to decide upon and should not be controlled by right-wing fucknuckles like the heritage foundation. Taylor Lorenz covers this stuff. Go and educate yourselves.

RainDog

I dont think people are catching tourettes or ADHD through social contagion but I think social media and modern life is making people extremely mentally ill. I think people are depressed and social media rots attention spans and a lot of that can mimic symptoms of severe mental disorders. I think young people are desperate for a fix to whatever our modern living is doing to us and stuff like ADHD and Tourettes have treatments. So they'll focus on their stunted attention span or nervous ticks as symptoms of something more severe because thats tangible. I think in maybe 10 years we'll have some sort of new mental illness put into the DSM explaining whatever social media is doing to us.

D G

The cure for that kind of depression is giving them a sense of agency and by getting them involved in taking action. Teach them to fight back and they won't feel like victims.

K'caj

This is the slop I need right now, om nom nom. Also when's that merch gonna drop!

Graham Hoese

Thank God, you don't understand how bad I've been fiending for a new episode. Bouta go lock myself in the work bathroom and get high on this good content baby.

Patrick Walsh

trying to find a girlfriend in the true anon comment section. i’m 22, 5’9, i live in kamloops. some of my interests include skiing, shitposting, and i write a little too. my vices are gambling and smoking cigarettes. my politics are the ML ones. i am pretty busy with work a lot but i enjoy my job. i’m new to BC so i haven’t been out much but maybe you could change that!!

Miss Lourdes

1st any deniers are liberals

Yeahman

Hey guys, I lost my dick and balls. Has anyone seen them laying around anywhere? Maybe took mine on accident?

NYCM&AHole

Brace isn’t insane at least totally. I had to use an app to read QR codes way back when

MoldyTolge

Peter Watts has an interesting post about DID. He’s also faced down the jackbooted northern borderpatrol, should get him on the pod

MoldyTolge

Brace, via netflix, did steal my dick a few weeks back, fr fr

Benjamin Kelly

What’s the point of all this podcasting. Where’s it headed. What’s the end goal here.

Yeahman

Nvm I found them. Was getting the snowblower ready for winter yesterday and left them in the shed.

William

Lol the point is entertainment, you know, the point of ALL podcasts

Alejandro Pepsi

Who is the pessemistic philosopher Liz was reffering to again?

Michael S. Judge

pretty sure you can still find "The Author as Producer" in REFLECTIONS

Natalie

I love when Brace makes Yung Chomsky laugh

Jessica S

I read a “tsk tsk” article on TikTok-inflicted tics, shaming people who dare suggest that watching videos of people with tics will not make you develop a condition manifesting tics. Though I do wonder if this phenomenon - people watching other people and believing themselves to be capable of similar feats and doing said feats - explains TED Talks.

swervegriffin

Was that the last episode of trueanon?

Nicolas

Ill be honest, Im only one step away from incorporating COIN DEXTER and the "CRAAYYSEEE" vocal fry into my daily vocabulary... Call it tourettes.

Sandy

Fung chu han? I can't seem to find who she's referring to specifically unfortunately, but she mentions his name around 43:20

Kingdude

yeah that's what it kinda sounded like to me

Gary

Ending was super gay. Liz must have had too many cigarettes.

Socialswine

Burnout society is great

Sue Bond

Would also like to know who he is. I've been trying to make out his name and search via terms but nothing comes up.

Bobby Volcano

No doubt a large percentage of gumshoes are happy with quality over quantity and mental health breaks whenever. And listening to whatever you all want to do with the show. We don't want you to get to the point where you're just bashing out random letters for the show title.

Sue Bond

@Socialswine Thanks so much for that!

SwagMasta420

I'm coming to Kamloops to rob you

Sparrow

Unironically agree with Brace on what to do about the poison salesmen

um

hope so

Rhod

One of the best episodes yet.

um

lol social media made these motherfuckers rich and (internet) famous.

Miss Lourdes

Its like we're waking up like Neo in The Matrix towards social media

Sparrow

"Psychopolitics" is good and should be part of anyone's reading list on mental health under Capitalism

Sparrow

i love when Liz & Brace talk from well-grounded historical materialist dialectical thinking. it's all the stuff that just makes fucking sense. but then they whip out the "i have an opinion as a leftist USAian" reactionary shit and not for the laughs (like especially with covid or contemporary politics) and it's like. wtf is this trash. stop just regurgitating standard accepted takes.

Øystein Monsen

you have identified the main tension and subject of this episode, congratulations

rutjake

validating the QR thing, I also thought you needed an app up to this year

SMO

Good ep guys. Definitely quality over quantity :)

magic8baller

This might be my favorite episode??

Warbs

Social media is the Sphere. Time for a rewatch.

Sam Sal

Live show in DC pleaaaseeee

Kasz

This is the only podcast I monitor and record for training and quality assurance purposes.

Brian Long

Loves, it’s ok to take off. We support that. ❤️

gen~

something i noticed about the whole did thing is that people of the tumblrina ilk love the idea of a bunch of characters with unique personalities working together in a show or a comic or something. the kind of person who acts like they have did online is the same kinda person to get really into a fandom of a show/fictional universe and draw the characters with a profile of their personality traits and imagined sexual orientation and stuff lol. the aesthetics of that circa early-mid 2010s vs did tiktok as of the last few years are very clearly related in my opinion. so it makes sense to me that young people would adopt this kind identity bc its like having a fictional universe in your own body. and to be seen and validated of that through tik tok videos since the dominant identitarian epistemology lately is "whatever i say i am, i am" lol. ive been on the peripheries of tumblr since like 2008 and have watched the tumblrina culture develop and migrate across platforms.

gen~

but dude when people above the age of 20 do this shit im likee. hello.

William

For me, this show and others like Chapo, etc bridge me over the mind numbing parts of my day to day; yalls podcast also has the added benefit of more or less power mapping the elite capitalist circles. That might not be quite what you want the show to be but for me, it's enough grease for the wheels to help slide through another day until (hopefully) it won't be necessary

Jon Spiegler

Quitting Facebook is one of the best choices I’ve ever made

Catherine Hutchinson

Woah, a good, deep one here. When I read Brecht there was no such thing as the internet!

anna

I’ve been diagnosed with tourette’s since I was 7, nearly 30 now, and had no idea about this tic social media phenomenon, absolutely wild. Tourette’s on avg begins presenting in kids age 6, hopefully prior to any sort of conscientious social media exposure- so anything appearing in the mid teens time frame is a bit late. However now I’m wondering if kids with these functional, but mimicry-based diagnoses would consider me as gatekeeping tourette’s for saying so? Part of me wonders how these behaviorally presenting mis-diagnoses are going to skew research and treatment progress on real disorders, which has already been so slow in many cases :/

justdave

Thanks mom and dads, I was worried.

L

Reallllly great ep. Hitting the core

Jumpbubble

The reason that they're considering making an Instagram specifically for under 13s is that there's a law called COPPA that puts very strict regulations on collecting information about under 13s (parental consent, etc). It's usually easier to just say that they can't use the app, but apparently they think it might be worth the hassle to create an app that complies.

lilfukka

Me too. Check out my dating website www.romance.solutions

Mike

what’s the name of the “pessimistic” philosopher liz mentions

Brian Long

Also… the DID tiktoks are so cringe. I have a hard time imagining it isn’t for attention. Nothing about it seems real.

Nicolas

I didnt really understand what your issue with the german tourettes youtuber was...?

carl

I did some teaching years ago, and one thing I thought about daily was how truly lucky I was to live my formative years without a cellphone (big blue Nokia, age 17). My first smart phone I was 28. its heartbreaking that kids can't really be kids, as well as being fed corporate whatever as soon as they can use the mechanisms

Ash

Byung-chul han

TrueAnonPod

The researches say he likely has a mild form of Tourette’s but many of his symptoms are functional and not “organic”—which would make sense considering he is a content creator and has incentives to be more demonstrative for views etc

Kirstwb

i grew up with instagram, what’s almost more consequential than its effect on individual self esteem is the effects on your immediate social circle making it more real than real life in a way, love u guys

Gavin Farrell

I appreciate the deep introspection and thoughts on the internet phenomena. re: the soul-searching around the 1:05 mark. If it helps, I don't think of you guys as 'producers.' You're propagandists/educators/thought-havers/secondary source journalistic commentators. If you had a couple real journalists on staff that went into the world and got direct information, then I'd be more likely to call you 'producers'. (Not that there is anything at all wrong with being a propogandist or a take haver.)

brit

great episode, super moving. thanks yall

Bluebell

Great episode, maybe my favorite so far

stuckforever

Gives me quite a bit to think about. Thanks for this

Luke F

Who is the philosopher Liz mentions? Bong Cho Han or something like that?

T Brady

Byung-Chul Han

Kasz

there was this other german guy with some wacky verbal and pgysical tics that made a bunch of people go craaaazy. he got a whole country copying him way before tik tok or the stanky leg dance. rumor has it their are still ppl doing those tics today even tho it got out of hand

Patrick McAuliffe

Dude Yung Chomsky the music was great in this episode. Really dig this direction.

Dusky Lad

Thank you for articulating the existential dread I feel about where we're heading with the internet. Great stuff.

Fat_H

Yikes that one hit hard

cstenzy

The tumblr diaspora and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

Patrick McAuliffe

This episode is the first one that made me feel like it was a deeply important work of art. So impressed w your growth.

TrueAnonPod

it was all by Robin Hatch in this episode except for the bit at the end!

Karlo

You guys should read, 'You and your profile'. Right up this lane, very illuminating.

Matt T

thanks for this awesome episode and for sharing the benjamin piece it was great. i was also kind of thinking if it's possible to link the criticism of activism that benjamin mentions in the piece to the somewhat vapid nature that modern social media across all platforms produces. also, maybe the translation is different from what liz was reading from, but on the marxists.org piece benjamin references the power of 'intellect' on it's own as the activist's greatest tool, a kind of self serving liberal idea that if you know about it that's enough to have confronted it or perhaps use the knowledge to adjust just enough the already existing system, reformism essentially. not sure if other people saw that too but i found it super interesting and when i think about some organizers that think this work is enough we see the ineffective result that can come of it.

Liam

Great episode. When talking about the disorienting gap between self and social media presentation I think online dating, specifically Tinder, represents a particularly distilled and potent example of this mechanism. I was in college when the pandemic hit and just got out of a relationship. Tinder started as a cigarette like you described. A near endless stream of attractive women, some of whom may even have liked my profile (!) but it quickly turned to dread at the prospect at actually having to talk to someone if we matched. Even though I would turn to it to feel good about myself, it was incredibly alienating. It’s been several months since I deleted it and thing have improved . Thank you all for the great episode and incredibly live show.

circular

this happened to my buddy eric one time

Ben Mabry

great episode. Would love to see you guys in Seattle

Sean

Psychopolitics is really good too

Jack Lansman

Last ten minutes are why trueanon are light years more relevant useful moral and better than Chapo. There's too much facile humor and pummeled subjects -- facility in general over there-- not to evidence a degree of egomania, an ego which our heroes had to obliterate to produce something that galvanizing and human and beautiful. Thank you

Nat

I found this episode so genuinely enlightening. As an older zoomer I feel like I have grown up in the mix of a lot of these strange mental illness trends, like when I was 12/13 it was all self harm / depression tumblr and instagram. SO many women my age that I know went through this phase, and it’s hard to decipher what was real or not during these formative years of your life. Thanks for a great and helpful episode.

A S

Online dating is so miserable, and it really seems like there aren't any other options. I'm coming around to the fact that I missed the boat on dating/romance/love or even just sex. Doesn't feel good.

Garrett A Vigil

thought this was going to be about the movie by Sidney lumet

Will McCauley

All timer episode, one of the best you guys have done. Props.

Michelle

Long time listener, first time caller. This episode is what inspired me to finally pony up and give y'all the money you deserve.

Bryson Martinez

Fiddle sticks! I give these assholes money too.... fuck

Sick dude

Let the personalities flow Brace. Especially that Coindexter guy if he is still with you.

Shiv

love the stanky leg shout out. might have to give this OG a google

Shiv

I think Androids do, based on my moms phone anyway

hk

I worked in a pediatric psych facility for a minute this last year and there were a bunch of truly emotionally troubled teens that presented w the Tik tok Tourette’s and DID stuff. It can make the job a lot more difficult in those moments lemme tell ya

James Whale

Im a teacher and one of my students last year was doing the multiple personality thing. I had no idea what it was about until this ep. They were saying the beans thing as well

John M

Anyone need tickets to the October 30 thing can’t go I have 3 tix

Antipaganda

Fascinating to hear both Liz and Brace speak without affectation or irony, very interesting bit of introversion there. I recently started paying for this podcast, and I do not regret that at all. It is sad to reduce my relationship with the pod to such a commercial exchange, but there is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

LibChudD69

You guys are the best. I hardly consume any media anymore besides Trueanon. I hope if you do feel burnt out you allow yourselves to take a break. Hope to catch you on the next round of live shows. Take care

Natalie

Fantastic episode! I was a little bummed you didn't have a second episode last week, but if you need breaks to put out content, even more like the "seasons" structure that Blowback uses, then it would totally be worth the wait. Thank you for all the great content so far and I'm excited to see where this show goes!

bugsick

GREAT episode. Everyone: help yourselves by getting off fucking twitter. You might be like "oh my online friends are there" or "I need to know the latest takes", but I promise you your life will be better, you'll stop picking up annoying affectations, etc

Jacob Kotler

This is a brilliant episode, y’all

Oliver Crane

This was excellent and feels like one that will really stick with me. ngl I was wondering if the last 10 minutes was building to a “and that’s why we’re pivoting to substack” gag

Bobby Volcano

Wonder if they've labeled us 40-ish year olds as "geriatric millenials" as a way of segregating those who remember the before-time and those who don't. The same way Marx could analyze the emergent phenomenon of capitalism because he straddled that moment, we are best-situated to make an effective critique. This episode is a great example of such a critique and helps me think about how to be in the world. cushvlog has been a great dive over the last 18 months into 'what is all this shit about?' And of course death/corner. Bringing things into focus by necessity means presenting material that is somewhat out-of-focus and I really appreciate those of you who have been brave enough to share your slightly out-of-focus thoughts and ideas to help us all find our way.

Salt M. Bank

enjoyed the discussion here. In my own life, when I point out the statistical unlikeliness of all these people having alters or Tourette’s, my girlfriend becomes uneasy and defensive, bc she follows some of them. I mention it not because I what any sort of advice or anything, but only as anecdotal evidence that this shit works, as far as establishing parasocial relationships and online followings goes. With my girlfriend, she’s used to not being believed about her own real mental health struggles, so I believe that in a way she relates to these tiktokers and YouTubers for ostensibly having hard to prove mental health problems. This shit is pernicious and you really hit the nail on the head with the part about diminishing returns in proving one’s uniqueness online.

kallampero

^^^ Why I came to the patreon comments

Pat Thomas

Thanks for this! Here's to thinking big! And fuck all this bullshit for real!

Eye Twenty-Six

chapo fills the hole that jon stewart left as he went off air and I got further left, TrueAnon best mimics talking to some weirdo at a show (which makes sense with the hosts' backgrounds)

justdave

Wait, then whose junk is this in my glove compartment?

Anthony Suarez

Tomorrow i’m gonna wake up and look in the mirror and see Brace instead

justdave

Tis' true we live in the circus!☝But, tis also true that all of life is but a stage, we can beat them (I believe) through this most real and basic human of identities, the story teller. I lived a few miles away from where Mark twain lived in Nevada, an let me tell you the man was a communist and a true christian

justdave

I made Ross briemmer the nazi king of high desert prison lift weights with a black man with a learning disability, we would talk and tell stories, Ross said to me once ' when we take over, I'm putting you in charge of the tanks' 100% TRUE hilarious insane story from my comic book life-that your all apart of now

justdave

Seriously thanks

Ryan Delaney

Not sure about everyone else but if more time between episodes would lead to interesting projects and productions I wouldnt mind. Shit 2 times a week is alot of work

killerpsyopbrah

sup brehs, great show brehs, just switch from 2x/wk to 2x/mo and go more in depth. like kb and edburg, everyone go sub to pseudcast brehs. thanks brehs, love you brehs, see ya brejs. ok now everyone check out my sick production of trueanon great reset eps :D https://www.bitchute.com/video/UWTfnOlxuTqR/

Aidan of California

I want to see the collapse of the Silicon Empire in my lifetime

Richard

it’s pronounced bertolt brace

Anthony Suarez

Update: It wasn’t Brace, it was Coindexter

rolfesam

At the start I was really wondering if yall would able to turn this into a whole episode, but you really took it to an amazing place, loved this one

justdave

Coindexter should change his name (for tha optics). I was thinking 'jewpecabra' or 'the jewcker'- whatever just a thought

Nic Warnock

I thought involuntary yelling “beans” was a feature unique to my beautiful girlfriend... my reality has been shattered 😖🤯

justdave

I can't stop thinking about this, your not traitors to the revolution for doing a podcast, chapo maybe nihilistic, but trueanon is Robert Dinero's character in ' Brazil'

Kasz

Sir this is a wendys

Sam Langmann

can you link to the terrets paper?

Bobby

I don’t care if you guys take three months in between episodes or increase the Patreon to $50 a month I’m supporting you regardless on whatever path you choose to take. Take as much time as you need to to create work that’s meaningful for yourselves because everyone here trusts and quite frankly needs you.

DaddioSam

This episode is special. I’m going to listen to it again. And likely again after that. Liz, you are a beautiful soul and your introspection is moving. Thank you all for giving us intellectual kibble.

Casey

When I first signed up to tik tok my entire “for you” page was DID and furries. Since then my algo has become perfectly curated to animal rescue videos, The Pocket Report, and a guy who rates sidewalks

Evan

How long until we see the word "tankie" on shirts at hot topic? Like mainstream adoption.. would this be a net good/ net bad?

Alejandro Pepsi

If smoking = posting, then vaping = lurking.

justdave

Fuck you I payed for my meal, you can listen to me ramble incoherently

justdave

I worked at a pizza place once, and a man came in and explained that he was just out of prison and was in for 25 years, and he wanted to know if I 'worked for jews'- I told him that 'I wasn't sure,' but that, I would ask- then everyone behind the counter died laughing

SammyG

Love you mark ❤️ pls come back on the show again loved all your cameos!!

Char Kelly

Big brain philosophy Liz is so good

Bobby

Mr. Bank I’m sorry to inform you but your gf is a liberal

Mika Kelley

woah there buddy not all of us can afford $50 a month :(

Alex

Amazing episode

dawood

Allan Carr's book on quitting smoking is pretty good/doesn't work

Rusty

Loved the inward gazing sincerity

Hannah Barton

Loved this ep. Feel like there’s a strong link between the threads discussed here and ideas covered in episode with Jodi Dean. And the Tesla series too, for that matter.

greg

lmao liz complaining about having to produce 3 hours. a week

Sam

Unlock this please!

Shiv

Loved this ep, and I too will pitch that of all the ones to unlock...this is it!

Alex K

I wish you guys did more episodes like this about social media, I think you have really incisive takes on it that put into words a lot of things I feel discomfort about! I wonder if you guys have ever discussed Peter Thiel/Facebook and mimetic desire? Anyway keep up the good work!

justdave

Ya, I'm the poor one

Sonia Iyer

hands down one of the best eps you guys have done, actually gave me chills. i'm older gen Z and was on the internet a lot as a kid/teenager but it was nothing like what i've seen with younger gen Z and gen alpha. genuinely scary to think about what it's doing to kids growing up fused to it for their entire lives

Liam Cameron

no I believe in the mad gasser lol

D.K. Wilson

“America” - Jean Baudrillard. We’ve been in the post-authenticity, post-sincerity world for longer than most people are willing to admit.

Jenny K

You would think it would be weird to be deeply moved by the Trueanon Podcast but well yeah it is weird. Anyway this is the new TA meta IMHO.

Keil Jones

wow. TrueAnon has been totally silent on the vaccine mandates, except once, when they downplayed them. And now they are going along with this clear op that is the Facebook "whistleblower." I guess another "lefty" source has reveled itself for what it is

Null_null

“The real leftists are Tucker Carlson and Glenn Greenwald” guy.

Ivan Lopez

Thanks for the nudge guys. Truly appreciated.

Keil Jones

Uh oh, a sycophant is gonna step in and "ratio" me, for criticizing his heroes. Be sure not to address the substance of what I said, little human shield for TrueAnon boy.

Null_null

I like Brace and Liz :)

Keil Jones

Another substance-free post from the little fanboy. Anyway, it's sad to see that Brace and Liz turn out to be just people who cosplay as socialists online - and who have nothing to say about thousand of working people getting fired over vaccine mandates. And as far as this "whistleblower" story that TrueAnon is going along with, a recent episode of Moderate Rebels engages with it in an actually-intelligent and actually-leftist way

Null_null

I’ll be sure to listen to the show hosted by Sidney Blumenthal’s son. Now who’s the op and the fanboy,

lin hou

I'm probably older than most of your listeners & grew up without an internet. Spent most of my twenties & thirties without social media & can not fathom what it would be like to grow up now.

Pug_luvr

Lol, you're paying them 5 bucks a month for the privilege of posting here. Absolute cuck

Erik~

Who's the girl in the episode picture? What's her connection?

Erik~

Also, I've been off of FB and social media for 6 years now, ever since I noticed how much mental harm it was causing me. Best decision ever and I do not look back and have no desire to return. I don't miss FB one bit.

Arielle Stevenson

Great episode with a Walter Benjamin cherry on top. Thank you.

Lilith

Totally agree about their silence on the vaccine mandates. Not sure that that reveals them as left cosplayers though it would be good to hear from them about why they haven't covered it. Unless you have enough of a medical science background it is difficult to understand the nuances of it though, and these guys' don't have that background. Chapo have commented on the issue of vaccine safety without bothering to find out about the issue, obviously didn't understand what they were talking about, and they let themselves down severely. Definitely watch everything that the greyzone puts out though, they do the work and bring the receipts.

Lilith

Big brain philosophy Liz sounds a lot like AOC, ie incomprehensible undergraduate disappearing up her own a$@

Lilith

No. Ultimately they still need the money that they make on patreon.

Null_null

The vaccine debate is definitely clarifying in regards to what factions of the left suffer from Dunning-Kruger.

Solveig Schumann

Great episode. Love how it ends with WB quotes and a push for all to read Brecht. But gotta disagree with Brace's dismissal of The Mother. There's a film of the Berliner Ensemble's production from 1957-58 with Helena Weigel in the title role, and it's pretty brilliant...

Keil Jones

The silence on the left has definitely unmasked some online socialist cosplayers. Chapo Trap House has gone full blown sh*tlib. But it is sadder to see people I actually trusted, like Richard Wolff, manufacture consent for FIRING working people. I understand hesitancy around talking about it, for fear of being deplatformed. But I fear that Brace and Liz, too, are unmasking themselves, by speaking out to DOWNPLAY the mandates, instead of just remaining silent. And by doing pretty embarrassing limited hangout episodes like this one

Daniel Goffe

Very good episode with some important and profound points. Thank you!

BS

love the ending of this episode. great stuff

Molly Magdelena

bella poarch she is a famous tik tok dance girl

Molly Magdelena

so happy to be a listener of your production. was very moving today and inspired me to delete my socials. 🕊

aKg

This one got me to finally subscribe and contribute. Funny, bizarre, focused, and even got a couple tears out of me with both of your closing remarks.

Vincent Ricottilli

Thank you so much! I was trying to look up the new media theorist Liz kept referencing but all my iterations just provided links to Bong Joon Ho. I also wanted to recommend Wendy Chun whose work touches on a lot of similar arguments. https://youtu.be/9XWZ_pAtEHQ

babygurl

I apreciate your resistance to commenting on topical issues and completely understand why you might want to wait to assess the news cycle.

Null_null

It’s extremely funny when a person generates a data bank of buzzwords and reference points from (essentially) a network of podcasts, graduates to some new tier of edgy radicalism ‘cause they’re (justifiably) madder at the world than they were before and aren’t getting the proper catharsis from their podcasts, and then they turn on the people they once looked to for political guidance and weaponize their own buzzwords against them. Like, just listen to the Grey Zone guys if that is where you are politically. Who cares? Why are you mad at TrueAnon. It was clearly some step in the development of your political identity. And now you’re out of step with them.

Samantha Geovjian Clarke

I feel the same way; I'm only 31 but my parents were poor and not very tech-literate and I've never been more grateful for a supposed 'disadvantage.' I didn't have a phone till I was 15 and I kept all my files stored on floppy disks until 2007, and you know what, I'm minorly less miserable than most of my peers

Samantha Geovjian Clarke

very good point - I used okcupid back in the early '10s and hadn't checked back in much on the online dating world since until early summer this year, and I gotta say, Tinder was never good but holy shit is it a whole other order of hellish now. I firmly believe it's better to be lonely in real life than to be on those platforms chasing this false and frankly sinister form of supposed connection, because it does nothing to mitigate the loneliness and can actually make you feel more alienated in the long run. I think it's very apt to use the cigarette metaphor there! A very nice boy approached me at the grocery store the other day and invited me to have tea, and I wasn't interested but it was so sweet and I was so glad to see someone trying to meet people irl I was tempted to say yes just to be encouraging!

Samantha Geovjian Clarke

I'd also really like to see more from podcasts on the left, especially who specifically address the deep state and issues often dismissed as "conspiracy theories," seriously addressing the vaccine mandates among other disturbing circumstances. And I think some amount of your criticism may be justified. However, I think it's also important not to get caught up in false left-right dichotomies around this issue and not to fall into the same old blaming/accusing/attacking habits that have long been intentionally encouraged to keep us divided. I would also like to see Brace and Liz move closer to my own position on this, and in fact I feel it's quite important, but while I think your feelings are understandable, I believe the approach you're taking here is a counterproductive one. I suggest offering some sources about vaccine mandates and why you disagree with them, sharing them with Brace and Liz, and asking openly and in good faith if they've ever considered this perspective or had a chance to look at these particular sources. Maybe they'd look at them and find them compelling and even ask you for more of your thoughts. If they see your comment here, what are they or anyone else in the discussion likely to feel but aversion? And who could blame them. No one feels good or safe having their perspective challenged in a context where they're already being accused of being not only ignorant or wrong but in this case even of acting on behalf of the very people they've declared to be their worst enemies (insofar as your accusation that this was a limited hangout). I feel you and I think I understand your frustration, but I just don't think this is a winning tactic, and I encourage you to consider the possibility that people actually can be won over, if approached conscientiously, when you challenge them. <3

Andrew M

get offline. it's easy. it's good. you'll feel better.

David

Looking back I was so fucking annoying when I was using Twitter

David

This ep was so good and also I recommend hitting up your former guest and PSL member Jodi Dean for insight on how to be a producer and a revolutionary.

anna

I want to add that I regret the super medicalized lens of disability my initial comment gave off Having thought about this more I also want to add that I do feel a deep connection with these tik tok tourette’s folks. Tourette’s often times declines and sometimes even stops presenting entirely in people’s early adulthood. As someone who has not seen a shift in tics from when I was a kid, I find myself often questioning whether or not the neurophysiological component of my tics is still present, or if it is simply that the actions and behaviors of my tics has just become such a mentally engrained part of my life for the last 27 years that it would just be impossible for me to ever stop them. I will never be able to know which is the correct answer here, if there even is one, but in this way, I understand the individuals of these social media mimicry/functional disabilities to, in many ways, be just as real as my own disability. I dunno, the power of the mind in dictating our behavioral and physical autonomy is very real and stuff so

Null_null

Mark, this is also beautiful: "Ames declined to comment for this story. 'This sounds too depressing,' he said. 'Good luck with it.'"

K

Wow. I think you guys would find meaning in Bo Burnham’s work. Check out “welcome to the internet”— a no clip on youtube from his called Inside (on Netflix) is about his relationship with the internet as a creative. It’s very intense. His film Eighth Grade (A24) special “Make Happy” (Netflix) are phenomenal.

Alex

I love the show and this was a very insightful episode, but the vast majority of people absolutely do not need to be on social media. Unless your immediate livelihood would be compromised without it (which is not the case for most people, including those who believe it to be the case), you literally do not need it, and it will only make your life worse.

Lucy Jones

liz you should for sure read psychopolitics: Neoliberalism and New Technologies of Power by Byung-Chul Han if u havent

Iris Allen

The "Beans" British accent thing comes from one TikTok account that genuinely does have tourettes and some other disorders that I don't know anything about. She made a bunch of posts about this "tiktok tics" phenomenon. It was sad to watch her reaction to all that.

owen

The tourettes section, geez. I’ve had tics/tourette-adjacent symptoms for 17 years now and in my case it’s anxiety that’s so raw and distilled that it’s felt neuromuscularly as an ache. And the only way to discharge that pain is to move that muscle, sometimes in a certain sequence or pattern. And the pattern of movement repeats until performed in a ‘satisfactory’ way. Like you guys said, most people don’t do that yelling shit. Maybe a throat clearing or something. Anyway, living with it feels fucked up and embarrassing and I blame Tourette’s Guy and idiots like those in these Tik-Tok communities for the public misunderstanding of the disorder.

Floyd Hill

Are nervous tics tourrette-adjacent now? As a kid, even before the traumatizing years between 10-17 when there was rarely a day where my parents weren't at a war of words (more like screams) and threats of violence or divorce and throwing objects (that coincided with when my father lost his big job when the local garbage disposal private company contracted by the city was bought by Waste Management and he was fired for no reason other than "redundancy" and that downsizing crap, so I understand my father's behavior in those 6 months he was on social security getting 55% of his original paycheck (it's really just that little in Canada....it does last for very long though if you were working at the same place since years....but that's when I stopped seeing a dentist yearly for half a decade. It took so long for my mom to get some guts and divorce if she hated him so much even if he had found work pretty quickly after that, we weren't upper middle class anymore and she had to work....the classic Xennial story (for those who don't know, it's us born between 77 and 85, who witnessed the destruction of the family and wages not following inflation anymore). For me it was cracking my finger joints (and toes, and wrists) by the time I was in grade 2, before all of this, the day after a pretty huge earthquake in eastern canada...not an area known for earthquakes at all... a 6.1 or such....the worst was that for some reason electricity went out right before it happened, my mom thought we were getting nuked, heh. I already was an ADD case, so they always attributed my nervous ticks to that. It got much worse later when I would crack my jaw bone to a huge snap, giving myself TMJ disorder lol while in high school, grossing out girls (and me finding it pretty funny). Also snapping my thighs with those crappy wooden and metal chairs using some technique. The stress relief worked but was also very short. Same with eating the skin around my fingers when there was no more nails to eat away, and having to scratch everything that is a crease in one's body (the lowest part between fingers, the part between arms and forearms. Basically felt like I was jolted with electricity. The only way to stop all of this was Dexedrine and Clonazepam. Nowadays I'm only on benzos (sue me if you disagree, better than taking SSRI's when not depressed....I always managed not to spiral into depression, their efficacy for anxiety is BS and they also got a "Discontinuation Syndrome" that's just as awful and longer than stopping benzos, at least when you can manage taking benzos responsibly, I can, I know not many can. Only times I failed that was recently or in 2010 when North Korea almost nuked South Korea...everytime stupid fucking war happens and sabre rattling gets too hot by the fascists on our side of things or in eastern europe/asia, well crass authoritarianism/militarism when it comes to Asia more than fascism....let's just say that right now, I'm on the upswing from the rona, the first day in 2 weeks where I don't wake up a sweaty mess, but it's not all gone, this wall of text is proof of this, anxiety is through the roof although well managed by the bromazepam, I don't feel like I'm dying anymore but I feel like humanity might any second...

Melvin

2022 is the year of Autism Havana Syndrome