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Episode 233: Utah Detective (Patreon)

Published:
2022-06-17 14:04:27
Edited:
2024-10-11 00:15:57
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

The Utah County Ritual Abuse accusation take an even weirder turn as we look into a firsthand account of the Therapist’s attempts at mind control, manipulation, and terror. 

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Comments

Connor Sick

Revisiting this series again, not because it was hard to follow but because it’s classico. It makes me so crazy every time thinking how creepily ahead of the curve hamblyn was with his spurious DID diagnoses and ayahuasca ceremonies, seeing how pop culture mental health care has evolved over the years. I am also a therapist, I’m mortified knowing that not enough has changed in my profession so to this day it protects freaks like him to be out in the world at minimum defrauding and at worst inflicting violence onto people going to them for care. A true visionary and absolute monster

Sneakaboard

Its from a jar of tomato sauce

Sneakaboard

It seems like a lot of people give the CIA drug and torture people program WAY too much credit. They didn't unlock some novel dark science previously undiscovered or whatever. Communities harboring and abetting these kinds of evils are as old as human history. Individual psychos, monsters and broken people can and do figure this stuff out without having to like spend 6 weeks at Langley to learn the method.

Sneakaboard

My point isn't that techniques aren't honed and developes, but you also don't need to be a genious to abuse or groom people.

QUARANTINE DREAM

such a great series still. utah is terrifying. nevada up through colorado and up to montana...definitely the source, home (and long developed 'last stronghold') for all things weird/terrifying.

Grace

After ep 1 I was getting Fargo vibes but this is so much more sinister, definitely more true detective

Naimah

which episode did yall talk about did and npd?

cogandbal

There was a good podcast about a group called the chicken whackers in grand junction co. The pod is all oh I heard this from an interview but it's good. Check out outerworlds chicken whackers it's very true anon if real

Chapo Bath House

If you understand the Utah trilogy, you should be able to submit that instead of the SAT

Emioly

Has Liz watched the real housewives of Salt Lake City?

Jack

Still confused from the last ep but I’m excited

Brian

What Utah-kin bout?

tMinozaJ

nah this the right pod

dam

I love the LA Noire music. Brings back many memories

RyzomeRyan

Ughh, well, guess I gotta relisten to the forst episode again already cuz I forgot everything about this case. I remember the weirdo with the deep voice, but thats it.

RyzomeRyan

🔥 You are a genius 🔥

RyzomeRyan

Lets meet for ☕ & 🍆

TrueAnonPod

if only someone made a recap of the last episode and put it at the beginning of this one

Buster Malino

Of all the things that couldve been said in the pod, i definitely didnt expect rossi to slide into your dms

Katy G

Please link all of this to the Utah cult leader Teal Swan who claims satanic abuse and mind control by Mormons and is herself allegedly a fascinating psychopath

RyzomeRyan

You're a good man, and thorough.

justdave

Jesus christ look at that evil fucking white man

Titivilis

Imagine a bizarro world version of this planet where MK-Ultra never stops, just devolves into a Mormon scheme to "cure homosexuality" / abuse children.

J

Damn just finished The Deep End and learned about Teal Swan and her ‘recovered memories’ practice that started with her maltreatment by Mormon Barbara Snow, one of the catalysts of the satanic panic. The podcast The Gateway is great for background.

BryceSprungstein

THis is happening as a about half a dozen different TA episodes have happened in the last two weeks. I was actually expecting a 'classico' round up- -THe epstein-clinton guy 'killing himself', Ghislaine in sentencing, Spacey getting arrested (or charged or whatever), Musk and Dogecoin getting sued, the Musk tweet about DOJ and more interestingly, a surprising candid tweet thread from Adam Davidson - perhaps the most 'mainstream' person saying that these people are all rapists and should be excised.. and Lauren Boebert may have been an escort who 'worked with 'Ted Cruz. And then this bonkers Utah thing...whatever the fuck it is, starts happening. Everything's up coming TrueAnon!

CC

Gang, you are spoiling us, I’ve been wondering, “what will happen next” since Monday at 3:23pm.

orc

The TA Storm

Go'Thrak

Shocked there are no Avatar of Utahn jokes in here

NYCM&AHole

Hope you stayed at grace bay resorts, brace. A truly amazing Turks & Caicos resort.

Shiv

“The OL’ gavel-gavel..”—Liz

Shiv

I must also know this!!

Chas Padunski

Hate to tell Brace, but Melchizedek meets up with Abraham in the Old Testament.

opal

might be some of the craziest shit you guys have covered! it’s a strange world…

BryceSprungstein

Holy shit...I cant believe the words 'MK Ultra' haven't come up in this episode (but I guess that could be in part 3?); the part that really indicated it for me, more than anything else, was the fact that people seem to know about Hamblin, he has been reported to various authorities and everyone just looks away. That reminds me a lot of 'Chaos' and so many others that it seems like a tell.

TrueAnonPod

My bad on melckezdiek….in my defense I never heard of the creep…

ptime

Conversion therapy was never officially endorsed by the LDS church and members where explicitly banned from participating in it like 10 years ago. The exorcism thing is pretty fringe too. People sometimes do it because they saw it on TV or the internet but there’s no doctrinal or procedural basis for it

Will Camfield

Anybody have a flowchart on this yet?

BryceSprungstein

Also there's the Vince McMahon thing and with Stephanie McMahon taking over, I can't help but feel like there's some behind the scenes 'Game of Thrones' shit going on.

ptime

The other thing is that bishops aren’t professionals who have been trained and sent down by Salt Lake, they’re a local congregation member that has been arbitrarily selected to serve as bishop for usually 5 years. They’re extremely fallible and get svengalied into stupid stuff all the time, though usually it’s into a real estate scam or pyramid scheme instead of a psychologist-rapist pipeline. Utah especially is a really bad place for affinity fraud and it sounds a lot like Hamblin was doing affinity fraud to get access to victims and cover his tracks. The other thing is that the church in Utah, because it’s so big and omnipresent, is sort of a platform for a lot of scammers and psychos to run their own secret “inner church” on top of the community organized by the actual church. Hence the success of the Moonies and the Hamblin scheme

ptime

I can’t remember the guy’s name but just a few years ago some dude got sent to federal prison for doing a Ponzi scheme where he got a bunch of bishops to endorse his fake real estate business to generate new investors. He lied about having some multimillion dollar contract with the church to develop state land for them, and it put peoples’ minds at ease, I guess.

Pug_luvr

The Church statement against conversion therapy explicitly condemns "abusive practices", while also including a lot of language affirming "the right of parents to guide their children, the right to self determination, the role of faith in therapeutic practice", etc. It leaves lots of room for members to interpret it how they please and justify seeking out conversion therapy through unofficial channels. The Church discourages families from affirming their children's sexual or gender identity, and any member who insists on identifying as gay must be celibate. So, whatever their official stance is, they've created a fertile breeding ground for Mormons to abuse and coerce their LGBT kids.

Antipaganda

Alternate terrible joke: oh my, dick coffee

ptime

Cool, I’m glad they affirm their members’ right to self-determination, even when it leads the members to do things they disagree with

Noah Mingus

I'm grateful to listen again. I love you

Antipaganda

I have a close friend who legitimately has DID, and the way this fucking quack child-rapist doctor lies to Brad about how it works makes me furious. DID largely is caused by being abused as a child - that's pretty much the only thing he says that's true. What a fucking prick.

Parker

As a person who was raised mormon and went on a mission, “exorcisms” are not normal in the mainstream at all. but i have heard stories of them being had.

Jesse

"Bizarro?" Do you think the intelligence agencies and military just dropped all the mind control shit the second they were caught?

Titivilis

Of course not, but it would be weird if this was the terminal point of all that shit. With that said, the Mormons practically run spooktown.

justdave

'Brad' I love you, and I am so so sorry these 'people' are real

Brian Long

Thank you for the recap at the top. 👍

Mike Malloy

Did you guys fire social media guy Mehmet or did he move on to bigger and better things

Sav

I grew up in a Mormon community — it does not surprise me at all that they kept this story under-wraps. Mormons do really try to resolve all conflicts within their sphere of influence. Bishops in particular play a big role in trying to keep the community in line and often act as a confidante. I’ve personally seen nothing to this extreme, but several times I’ve seen this dynamic play out with domestic abuse and related alcoholism or drug addiction. I do think this dynamic stems from a general distrust of government and outsiders, which is quite understandable given Mormon history.

Kate Baldwin

I just finished the under the banner if heaven on Hulu. This has been a weirdly Mormon themed week.

Sav

100% doesn’t excuse it tho

Virgil Texas

i wish i could incorporate clasico into my everyday vernacular but i dont wanna be a #trueanonposeur

BB

YES.

Marcus

Drop the links to some good stuff.

Brian Long

The arm thing is insane. What.

Shiv

How do I sub to Utahan Anon

NickGodfrey

I'm an ex-mormon who has lived in Utah my whole life. I knew James Flaming Eagle Mooney as a kid. They moved in to the house across the street from my family in a small farming community called Benjamin. I remember him introducing himself to us in our living room with a story about how he became a Medicine Man following a near death drowning experience as a child. They ran peyote sweat lodge ceremonies for people ordered to undergo rehab by the courts from their house. Eventually a SWAT team raided the house and arrested Moony which began his legal battles. He moved out shortly thereafter. I can confirm that exorcisms are extremely rare among Latter Day Saints. Maybe even more rare than in the Catholic Church. I'm not even sure that there are firmly established practices for it.

August Busch

Sorry to be nitpicky, but is Yung Chomsky using a noise gate on Liz's mic? I feel like the beginning and end of her sentences are getting cut off by it

tMinozaJ

The whole thread of Hamblin as a predatory therapist is unsettling as fuck man real nightmare shit

Michael S. Judge

(dearest Liz: as a former adherent of what Brace calls "Italian-style religion," I unfortunately know that it's pronounced mel-KEEZ-a-deck)

Michael S. Judge

I can also tell you, because I was an altar boy when the pedophile priest scandal broke big, that insular religious communities do EVERYTHING in their power to keep their horrific secrets away from the "secular" legal system, because they know that any thorough investigation would turn up not one crime but decades and decades of crimes – and not just the child molestation, but the religions' bizarre status of legal quasi-impunity, especially as it relates to their heart of hearts, tax exemption.

Michael S. Judge

A priest at my school tried to molest a child, he got caught, they kept it internal, and last I heard, he's a "counselor for at-risk youth" in Colorado

Jake Reynolds

This whole arrow symbol thing is very lynchian

TrueAnonPod

If Michael judge was the altar boy at your church you’re not going to heaven or hell—your soul enters the Main Frame and is typed into the infinite parchment of God II

justdave

My camp counselor was the Babadook, the child eating witch from eastern european folklore

yeso

I wonder if there's a connection to this case of bizarre psychiatric malpractice:

Jane

The drop 🩸I think is like the arrow is dropping with blood I think

yeso

https://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/June-1998/Dangerous-Therapy-The-Story-of-Patricia-Burgus-and-Multiple-Personality-Disorder/ highlights include: - shrink instilling false memories of thousands of acts of satanic murder and cannibalism in the patient via hypnosis and drugs - hospital testing a hamburger from a family cookout for human flesh - giving children real guns as part of therapy - hospitalizing children for years under the assumption that MPD is hereditary somehow And this was all at a major, well-respected medical center. I wonder if the academic conferences mentioned in the article are a point of intersection with the Utah creep...

Wiggle

“True-tah” was right there

misterr

I am still reeling from this. Completely insane.

gibbypatrol

This was the first ep I actually had to take a break from. Truly horrific abuse and yall are likely only scratching the surface. Great work!

Chuck Fan

Truly still not following the story here despite your best efforts. Must be dumb af

Richard Young

Great episode! Something I thought about when y’all were wondering why this never went to the cops: is it possible that you’re under-considering the LDS angle? Maybe this is all kept out of official channels in an attempt to protect the broader church’s reputation/image?

TangiePower

It’s wild how confident Hamblin is that the insane stuff he’s telling his victims will work as intended. It’s difficult to internalize that there’s such an effective, almost patented, repeatable method for traumatizing people for a specific effect. When I hear about this stuff it always made me think of CIA MKULTRA, but now I believe these techniques are much older and more widely proliferated than that.

Jenny Marie Hatch

Utah Shakespeare Festival is producing Sweeney Todd this summer. A musical about cannibalism. The irony slays me...

Pete Kat-Chu

I once heard Utahn being "mispronounced" as Utard. Each time the hosts say Utahn, my mind kept swapping it for the other word.

Rebecca Johnson

No lmao they are not distrustful of the government—they are the government 👁

phil

i feel like i've definitely heard of something like this happening in california in the 90s as well. wasn't there a big media frenzy on the whole satanic ritual abuse around the time too?

justdave

This 'mormon face' shit is stupid, Mitt Romney- now that's mormon face in my book

I am become reply guy

Honestly the thing about Rossi that infuriates me the most is all the Britishisms

Joe Bowden

‘Sometimes’ I find your pod a little boring and a bit uninformed but eps like this are why it’s one of my favourite. Not to make light of it all but respect you so much for caring and digging about stuff like this.

Joe Bowden

Like what? Do you mean his fake British accent? You are called Kyle the most American name ever probably never even left the US

Marina

Man. This episode made me feel physically sick. To be honest, I wonder if there’s actually any benefit in discussing stories like these. That’s not a criticism of the show, it’s more so a question for the class. I’m not sure. Does knowing the horrific details of this case make me any more empowered to help? Or did I just casually consume entertainment at the expense of exploited and tortured children? Ugh. Does anyone have thoughts on this?

justdave

I would want my story heard, if only with the hope it's tragedy wasn't repeated.

justdave

But yes I know what you mean

I am become reply guy

Holiday-makers in endless queues, give me a bell, I’m in hospital, I could go on.

Braedon Roberts

Normal on my mission. Almost every elder has "cast out spirits" at least once

Ian H

Yeah, I would say that as someone who came of age culturally/politically in the W Bush years, alienated from my pious rural peers and very invested in things like the West Memphis 3 case, anytime I hear "Satanic" as a descriptor of abuse my bullshit sensor starts pinging. The specific details of this case were a good, and to me novel, illustration of how that justified skepticism can be weaponized by a savvy operator with access to local power structures. By training his victims to characterize their *actual* abuse by him in the terms of a widely discredited narrative, he (and doubtlessly others like him) could insulate himself from consequences in a way that I wouldn't understand without having heard it detailed.

Antifaith

Just so y'all know, the guy that was being mean to Liz in discord was unhinged and later banned for harassing people, we think Liz is cool as hell. We are still too-online weirdos though.

Dr. Ron Jambo

The only way to make Utah work involves a Utahn futon.

Derwood

Searched David Hamblin on Twitter to see what people are saying, and a guy who unfortunately shares the name came up first. Happens to be an enthusiastic union activist from the UK, so shout out to the good David Hamblin out there.

Regan

Man fuck you yung chomsky I had shit to do this weekend but yah hypnotized me in to replaying LA Noir

Jde Chzbrger

so glad the emotion of disgust arises correctly, fkn crazy monkey ppl. I still believe in humaniy. Also, I think the Mormons right now are the only demographic with a positive birth rate. Soak me, soak me, SOAK! SOAK! AAAWWWWWEEEE!

The Fine Art Revolution

damn this story is so sad, make sure you guys take care of urselves too, this shit is rough to even retell.

Dez Martin

This one was so so fucking funny omg

Donna Oakes-Munro

I'm not sure I want to know anything about any of y'all's wildest imaginations.

Marina

David, If that’s the case and hearing about these cases helps victims, then good. It’s definitely possible, probable even, that exposing dark crimes like these increase public empathy. I hope so, at least.

Marina

Ian, yes I noticed that too, excellent point. The doctor (psychiatrist?) had such a disgusting genius in the way he hid his abuse. He completely muddied the waters for his victims and anyone else who heard the story by weaving in elements of Satanic panic. That is genuinely where I thought this story might be headed at the beginning.

Marina

I was about to make one, but the case got so awful I didn’t want to think about it long enough to get to know the characters 🤦🏽‍♀️

Marina

Wait I didn’t hear about the first thing with Epstein- what should I Google to read about that??

Marina

Melchizedek is a super mysterious and kinda cool Testament figure- I feel like you guys would enjoy his story if you’re into that kind of thing. Lots of lore around who the guy actually was

Owen69

I listend to this from norwegian jail thanks for the company :)

PrinceVocalFry

Melchizedek is the righteous king of Jerusalem before the Hebrews arrive. He's briefly mentioned in Genesis where he meets with Abraham but later is seen as a prefiguration of Jesus, as the true king of Jerusalem. Mormons are just sicko nerds

Sydney

Wait how was this episode even more wild than the first???

Al

Utahn Anon works you just have to say it like you’re singing along to “Make Em Say Uhh” by Master P

Dr. Ron Jambo

"Utahn Crouton – A Mid-Aged Gourmand's Strange, Erotic Journey from Utah to Uticah"

Jake Scalia

Can someone explain what Rossi has to do with this? I don’t get it lol

justdave

Ya, that school, the one with the kids. The parents staged it and said teachers were offering their brood to the dark one or some shit

Max

As an ex Mormon, I have never heard of an exorcism occurring

Mia

folks, it's time to criminalize psychotherapy

Marsha Pimentel

This is the most fucked up story what the actual fuck

Eric Rhodes

Next time it's u-trois bb

PB Slueze

"Arrow with connected drop" probably means a drop of liquid connected to the arrow. Something like a drop of blood hanging from the tip

misterinterrupt

I first heard of people using the term Melchizedek in some book by a self-made guru "Drunvalo Melchizedek" who has a 2012-style made up religion that has meditation-based personal interdimensional travel

Starry Pr1nce

Probably better living quarters than these Brooklyn listeners but that's their own fault

Starry Pr1nce

Wtf is wrong with these parents letting the doctor go, it's desert county right???

Starry Pr1nce

No way that whole church isn't an abuse factory, but what church isn't

TrueAnonPod

He doesn’t have anything to do with the 2012 case; he’s being indicted by the DA and extradited from Scotland, and has been pushing that Leavitt is involved in the Hamblin case. His lawyers are former prosecutors from SVU fired by Hamblin

George P

Brandon banning Juul is the final nail in his coffin. By which I mean Brace is gonna Hinkley him.

Wes

Feels like we’ve crossed over into true crime podcast territory.

Eli Estrada

Why hasn’t Hamblin been charged and convicted? Why were charges dropped against him in 2004?

jobe

I love Liz’s more philosophical/theoretical discussion and this is a great little series (:

Bert

I think by drop he means like blood drop

Scotty Kassel

Grew up Mormon in Mississippi. Like 90% of them are harmless but there is a solid 10% that are some insular slightly inbred freaks

Mara Greig

This reminds me so much of Fiona Barnett’s documentary. Her account is so similar to the therapist’s daughter’s and she also claimed she was hypnotised (by this psychologist/academic who happened to be Nicole Kidman’s father). TW - https://youtu.be/RT3NkHaNfMY